Ryu: Better than Ken
Seth James Killian
I have been kinda bored by my favorite newsgroup lately, despite the reappearance of MMSF :). So I just thought I'd stir the pot a with a little potentially controversial rhetoric, along with my honest opinion. After extensive playing of both characters, I find Ryu to be
a stronger character than Ken.
1) Ryu's normal moves do more damage.
2) Ryu's fireball is faster, with a shorter recovery time.
3) Ryu has a vastly more powerful Hurricane kick, along with the
ability to go through FB's with it.
Ken has the following advantages over Ryu:
1) Slightly faster ground speed.
2) Increased range on all Dragon Punches.
3) Ability to land an extra hit when using the fierce or strong
DP's.
Ryu's advantages speak for themselves, and as for Ken's:
The increased DP range is only useful in a handful of situations, and
even then, only the fierce (strong to a slight degree) shows any real
difference in range and does less damage regardless. The extra DP
hit seems to be the main motivation for most Ken players. The hope
of landing that one devastating four hitter to end the round draws them
in. But the actual number of opportunities to land this combo are
precious few. Even in the "easier to dizzy" HF, dizzys are still
fairly rare against skilled opponents, and usually come at a time near
the end of the round where a lesser three hit (re: Ryu combo) would
still kill them. The ground speed, while rather small, is Ken's chief
advantage in my eyes. It allows for greater mobility and chance of
surprise throws or generally nasty tricks. But the difference is small. I also failed to mention the decreased DP recovery time for Ken on HF.
This is another real advantage, but again, fairly slight. It usually
only helps when someone who is not completely familiar with the new
timings tries a sweep or as a throw counter. Not that great.
Undoubtedly, these opinions are biased by my extensive Ryu
playing, but I still feel they are valid criticisms. Looking forward
to hearing intelligent responses (donning asbestos underroos :)...
Seth "don't be too hard on me, just trying to get something going" Killian
Lord Vader
> I have been kinda bored by my favorite newsgroup lately, despite the reappearance of MMSF :). So I just thought I'd stir the pot a with a little potentially controversial rhetoric, along with my honest opinion. After extensive playing of both characters, I find Ryu to be
> a stronger character than Ken.
Extensive? I've never played against you Ken... I would say that you've
played nearly as excessively as friend Ryu. I have played a fairer share
of Ryu and Ken than you have, IMO. Ryu definately holds some advantages
in a few places, but Ken's advantages cannot be ignored.
> 1) Ryu's normal moves do more damage.
> 2) Ryu's fireball is faster, with a shorter recovery time.
> 3) Ryu has a vastly more powerful Hurricane kick, along with the
> ability to go through FB's with it.
>
> Ken has the following advantages over Ryu:
> 1) Slightly faster ground speed.
> 2) Increased range on all Dragon Punches.
> 3) Ability to land an extra hit when using the fierce or strong
> DP's.
Maybe you mention these in your following text, but I'd have to say that
Ryu's moves are in general, slower than Ken's. Try a crouching fierce
jab DP with Ryu, then with Ken... Ken is a bit faster there, maybe it is
because of the DP, but it's still faster. As many people would argue, Ken's
HK is not quite useless. It is fairly useless against a few opponents, namely
Ryu, Ken and Guile. If I was fighting Vega with Ken, I would find either of
their HK's useful, but I would not pick Ryu because of his HK, rather Ken
would be my choice: he's faster, better and faster DP, his HK is very annoying
for Vega, especially if you can get it to connect more times. How many times
have you seen an opponent dizzied by Ryu's vs. Ken's HK?
> Ryu's advantages speak for themselves, and as for Ken's:
> The increased DP range is only useful in a handful of situations, and
> even then, only the fierce (strong to a slight degree) shows any real
> difference in range and does less damage regardless. The extra DP
> hit seems to be the main motivation for most Ken players. The hope
> of landing that one devastating four hitter to end the round draws them
> in. But the actual number of opportunities to land this combo are
> precious few. Even in the "easier to dizzy" HF, dizzys are still
> fairly rare against skilled opponents, and usually come at a time near
> the end of the round where a lesser three hit (re: Ryu combo) would
> still kill them. The ground speed, while rather small, is Ken's chief
> advantage in my eyes. It allows for greater mobility and chance of
> surprise throws or generally nasty tricks. But the difference is small. I also failed to mention the decreased DP recovery time for Ken on HF.
> This is another real advantage, but again, fairly slight. It usually
> only helps when someone who is not completely familiar with the new
> timings tries a sweep or as a throw counter. Not that great.
Ryu's faster fireball, HK, and better overall damage are Ryu's strong points,
however, I feel that he moves slowly compared to Ken. Perhaps something you
have noticed is the beginnig frames of animation for the DP. Ken appears
to just fly into the air, without really being on the ground for even a split
second... Ryu kinda clods around on the ground for an extra split second,
then decides to make his jump. Ken's combos and 2-hit DP are the main
attractions for many Ken players, but Ken adds spice to the game with fear of
his TOD. Ryu cannot duplicate that, and Ryu/Ryu wars are much more boring
than Ken/Ken battles.
--
Caine Schneider (Lord Vader) ca...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
"Attack me if you dare, I will crush you." -Ken
"Get lost, you can't compare with my powers." -M. Bison
--
John Tan
all this time and iterations of street fighter..
When it comes right down to THESE are the most important things.
1) How good your opponent is
2) How good you are
3) How lucky are you in close matchups?
All the rest are excuses. If someone is good enough, they can play any
character taking advantage of whatever attributes the character has.
John Teng
player to use.
I know this sounds weird, but I like the fact that Ken's DP takes off a
little less damange than Ryu's, so I can squeeze in more DP's in the
round to kill off people.
I've used Ryu's DP on opponents with almost one inch of energy left and
killed then with one DP. No fun. . . .
I think Ryu's greatest advantage is his HK. In the HF version, Ken's DP
is so fast it is almost equal in speed to Ryu's recovering from a
fireball to do a DP, so here FB-FB-DP traps between the two are
negligible.
Because Ken has those nasty combos that everyone wants to use, I find
him to be a more popular character, despite his inherent weaknesses.
I'll usually use Ken when I play, but I find myself losing to my
opponent I'll pick Ryu, simply because HK'ing through FBs really pisses
them off. :-) hee
Anyways, that's my thought. . ..
-jt
Sung H. Yi
matches against Sagat or Guile, is that their aerial fierce
punches have different hitting priorities (hitting areas, whatever
the senseless controversy here in the last week determined). Ever
try jumping in on Guile vs. his ducking fierce with Ryu? It's MUCH
easier to hit Guile out of his ducking fierce with Ken. I'm referring
to the HF of course.
Seth, this newsgroup boring you? As a Guile player, I don't have
to fight seriously, meaning I can do a few practice moves or leave
a few openings for the opponent to attempt a tick, when I play against
a Ryu or Ken. There are a ton of Ryus and Kens here at UM, but a
Guile played excellently can defeat them all. Guile is the man.
Ryu (in my opinion of course) is the underdog in a match between
the two.
Lee Eu-Ming
> I have been kinda bored by my favorite newsgroup lately, despite the reappearance of MMSF :). So I just thought I'd stir the pot a with a little potentially controversial rhetoric, along with my honest opinion. After extensive playing of both characters, I find Ryu to be
> a stronger character than Ken.
Ahh... but that was CE. In CE, I would agree with you wholeheartedly, but
HF is a different matter.
> 1) Ryu's normal moves do more damage.
> 2) Ryu's fireball is faster, with a shorter recovery time.
> 3) Ryu has a vastly more powerful Hurricane kick, along with the
> ability to go through FB's with it.
>
> Ken has the following advantages over Ryu:
> 1) Slightly faster ground speed.
> 2) Increased range on all Dragon Punches.
> 3) Ability to land an extra hit when using the fierce or strong
> DP's.
4) The ability to recover from jab DPs (actually ALL DPs)
faster than Ryu. This ability was improved in HF.
5) Recovers from the hurricane kick faster, too.
6) The ability to recover from mistimed aerial attacks faster.
(Okay, you acknowledged #4 later in your post, but I just love lists, so...)
> Undoubtedly, these opinions are biased by my extensive Ryu
> playing, but I still feel they are valid criticisms. Looking forward
> to hearing intelligent responses (donning asbestos underroos :)...
Ryu is the way he is at UIUC because of the way I played Ryu. The ol'
make you jump into my DP kind of Ryu. Now, everyone plays Ryu because
he was such a versatile and powerful fighter on CE. Remember, I didn't
play Ken/Ryu until AFTER CE came out and something clicked in my head
and I knew that Ryu would be the most powerful character on CE.
Everyone is still playing Ryu on HF, just out of habit, and using the
same strategies to boot. I've moved on to play Balrog and Ken on HF.
Remember Cheap Fridays and Cheap Ken on CE? Well, the little changes
that they made on HF are much more noticeable if you play cheap Ken.
Later, I'll post a Cheap Ken Playing Style guide. It's not a strategy
guide, it's a STYLE of play. Basically, you play Ken very reactionary,
close-up, and in your face. His speed allows you to get away with
things you couldn't do in CE, like trying to DP footsweeps, and jumping
in on fireballing Ryu's.
> Seth "don't be too hard on me, just trying to get something going" Killian
--
Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek) eum...@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu
"Error - Keyboard not detected. Press F1 to continue."
- From the wisdom of DOS 5.0
Seth James Killian
I guess this will act as a duel follow up article. To Caine:
I used to play Ken almost exclusively before I came to UIUC, and I
continued to play him for a few weeks at the beginning of last semester. I am feel my game is more versatile and balanced than it ever was using
Ken. When I play Ken now, I feel jumpy and like I must constantly be
on the offensive. This is most likely psychological, but I feel that
the majority of Ken players are very offensive, or at least much more
so than their Ryu counterparts. I do find Ken to be a little more "fun" than Ryu; he just seems more responsive. But it is Ryu who I can stay
on the machine with, as there seems to be little room for "fun" at
UIUC :). About dizzying with Ken's HK: I think that this is a rather
rare occurence, mostly because anytime you can hit with an HK, you
probably could have landed a three hit DP combo just as easily. So
it lacks in any real uselfullness, outside of a little midair trickiness or annoying Vega players. Ken's DP is also faster, as I conceded, but again, the number of times that this becomes a significant factor is
rather small. I do not expect to convince you, of course :), and the
touch of death is pure _style_.
About the difference in Ken and Ryu's aerial fierce priorities:
I was not aware of any significant difference, and if it is only against Guile, than so what? Ryu is obviously still a better Guile killer than
Ken. The FB's alone would be enough to make the difference, but for Ken to even HK over a Guile boom is foolish. Guile can try and block and
throw, or just exchange damage with a careless ducking uppercut. About
your winning ways with Guile: I can not comment, since I have never
been to your school (not even familiar with the abbreviation actually :) but I think the trend here has been a definite decrease in Guile players In CE, the match was close enough (although I feel that Ryu had the
advantage), but in HF, even the former Guile-only players have taken up
alternates, cause Ryu is such a killer. As a Ryu, I would rather fight
Guile than just about anyone. I have no fear at all anymore. Not too long ago, the several master Guiles were really scary, especially the
ones who liked to spice up their games by occasionally going on "nothing but ticking" periods. But then came the perfection of the FB trap.
Guile became manageable, even... easy??? Since HF, he has just moved
down the totem pole again, but I agree that he can be an extremely
difficult opponent for anyone without a projectile. Honda, Z, Balrog,
and Vega are all at a disadvantage against Guile, but against Ryu...
No way :)
Seth Killian
Tim Morris
>[...]
>As a Guile player, I don't have
>to fight seriously, meaning I can do a few practice moves or leave
>a few openings for the opponent to attempt a tick, when I play against
>a Ryu or Ken. There are a ton of Ryus and Kens here at UM, but a
>Guile played excellently can defeat them all. Guile is the man.
>Ryu (in my opinion of course) is the underdog in a match between
>the two.
I play both characters, and Guile is no match for Ryu on both TCE
and HF. I think on HF his odds have improved since Ryu has to be
more reactionary, but basically Ryu can afford to barrage hapless
slow-jumping air-hanging Guile with tons of fireballs, and DP Guile
if he jumps in. Guile has to jump _early_ to hit Ryu and avoid the
sac-throw, DP or standing roundhouse, and his usual ground game
against slow-fireballs McKen is nullified by Ryu's greater fireball
speed. And if Ryu gets Guile in the corner, Guile is toast... moreso
than if Guile gets Ryu in the corner (this doesn't happen often, let's
face it).
Dominating HF is easy with Guile... that is, until Ryu cleans your clock.
(Ok, so it isn't that bad, but I think Ryu vs. Guile is 70% for Ryu).
+--------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+
| Tim Morris | "If love is blind I guess I'll buy myself a cane..." - GnR. |
+--------------+---------------------------------------------------------------+