Guile following Sonic Boom on Blanka
Soobum Cho
I've read in some of the Guile guides that it is not a very good idea to
follow a Sonic Boom in on Blanka. I thought of a strategy that seems to work
on Classic. Maybe someone could point out the faults, so I don't waste my
money trying this on a person.
1) Throw a jab SB and follow it in.
2) I would imagine most Blankas would simply jump in on Guile since he is
not charged walking behind his SB. In classic, I've found that it never fails
to just do a standing Forward.....it knocks him down cleanly every time.
3) Once he is knocked down do some fun Guile tick and repeat.
I don't see any loopholes as of yet in this strategy. Blanka can't do the
rollieball because he'd do it into the Sonic Boom. If Blanka jumps straight up,
Guile has a free backfist or Roundhouse. I know that Guile is supposed to walk
under and throw if his opponent forward flips his SB, but a lot of the time, I
find that I can't make it under without getting hit(or at least it seems that
way). I'm not sure if the vertical rollieball would completely screw this
strategy up. On paper, if Blanka did the vertical rollie over the SB, that
Guile could hit him with a crouching Fierce, then throw a boom and follow in.
Tell me what you think guys. This tick(?) works perfectly vs. the computer
on classic (I know...the computer doesn't mean anything) as long as I don't
fuck up by hitting Forward too early which turns my standing Forward into that
pathetic little jumping kick.
Soobum Cho
sc...@icaen.uiowa.edu
Naval Ravikant
sc...@icaen.uiowa.edu (Soobum Cho) writes:
> I've read in some of the Guile guides that it is not a very good idea to
> follow a Sonic Boom in on Blanka. I thought of a strategy that seems to work
> on Classic. Maybe someone could point out the faults, so I don't waste my
> money trying this on a person.
>
> 1) Throw a jab SB and follow it in.
> 2) I would imagine most Blankas would simply jump in on Guile since he is
> not charged walking behind his SB. In classic, I've found that it never fails
> to just do a standing Forward.....it knocks him down cleanly every time.
> 3) Once he is knocked down do some fun Guile tick and repeat.
>
> I don't see any loopholes as of yet in this strategy.
Blanka's best way out of this is to block your sonic boom, and then
ball a fraction of a second before you can throw him. It's sort of like
if you try this tick on a player Guile. he'll block, and then jacknife
before you can throw him. If the opponent blanka is even
semi-competent, he can do this every time, on classic or CE. I don't
know about HF.
"Yeah, but it has its upside - my underwear is nice and loose!"
- Adolf Hitler
Naval.R...@Dartmouth.Edu
Naval Ravikant
Well, help me out here, folks,
I bought the SNES Street Fighter in Nov., and got really good at
it over the past few months. Last week, I thought I'd go try out the
arcade, 'cause I wanted to play something faster (and all the game
genie speed up codes are screwy in one way or another.) I chose guile,
and practiced the jacknife, sonic boom, and combos till I felt
comfortable enough with them. So, as usual, half a dozen Ken/Ryu
players show up. I follow the standard strategies, jacknife 'em when
they fireball, backfist if fireball/boom collide, and if I'm feeling
brave, when they're getting up, I Slow Sonic, jump in, and combo.
(Risky, i know. They can DP). They use the standard techniques too -
fireball traps, HK over the sonic, standard combos (no touch of death,
thank God!) So anyway, at one point, I throw a slow sonic and follow it
in. Ken blocks, and I suplex him.
"CHEAP!"
I'm not kidding. Throwing a FB and dragon punching before I jump in,
is not cheap, but a slow sonic follow, which is VERY easy for Ken/Ryu
to get out of, an is still a vital Guile technique, is cheap! Anyway,
my questions:
What do you do if someone says CHEAP! Would it be a good idea to keep
doing it? (I don't care about their ticking. I have my throw timing
down, and can razor kick out of almost any really nasty tick)
How do you beat Ken/Ryu, in general with Guile? I've read the guides,
and most of them aren't that great. Do you stay on the ground all the
time? The only other Guile player I've met here says don't ever jump in
on them. I don't know about that. Maybe I should just play Blanka... (I
refuse to play Ken/Ryu...matter of principle.)
My razor kick over fireball doesn't seem to work most of the time. I'm
using roundhouse razor kick, but I seem to be getting hit by FB's a
lot. Too late, I guess?
In the all fierce combo, is the second fierce a crouching or standing?
I've been trying crouching, and it hasn't worked.
thanks in advance for the replies...
- Naval
Soobum Cho
> - Naval
> Naval.R...@Dartmouth.Edu
If the crybaby Ken/Ryu says, "cheap", just tell them to shut up and
quit whining. I love Guile because he has so many good ticks. I haven't
run across anyone who called me cheap yet, but once in a while, Ryu
starts getting _real_ aggresive once I make 'em feel dumb. Anyway,
I think guile.falcon is the best guide at the uiuc ftp site. It has
that nice section on how to deal with ken/ryu.
Soobum
sc...@icaen.uiowa.edu
Soobum Cho
> Naval.R...@Dartmouth.Edu
By ticking, I don't mean throwing every time....that's way too predictable.
Although the success of your Blanka strategy depends on how close I am
behind the Sonic Boom....
Soobum
sc...@icaen.uiowa.edu
Crying Freeman
> Well, help me out here, folks,
>(Risky, i know. They can DP). They use the standard techniques too -
>fireball traps, HK over the sonic, standard combos (no touch of death,
>thank God!) So anyway, at one point, I throw a slow sonic and follow it
>in. Ken blocks, and I suplex him.
> "CHEAP!"
> I'm not kidding. Throwing a FB and dragon punching before I jump in,
>is not cheap, but a slow sonic follow, which is VERY easy for Ken/Ryu
>to get out of, an is still a vital Guile technique, is cheap! Anyway,
>my questions:
> What do you do if someone says CHEAP! Would it be a good idea to keep
>doing it? (I don't care about their ticking. I have my throw timing
>down, and can razor kick out of almost any really nasty tick)
Depends where you are and who you're with... I think it's fun
to play "asshole" style, where you tick people when they cry
cheap and piss them off more...
However, I wouldn't recommend ticking people who cry cheap if you
are in a foreign arcade and playing people who look like gang members.
Of course this is common sense.
> How do you beat Ken/Ryu, in general with Guile? I've read the guides,
>and most of them aren't that great. Do you stay on the ground all the
>time? The only other Guile player I've met here says don't ever jump in
>on them. I don't know about that. Maybe I should just play Blanka... (I
>refuse to play Ken/Ryu...matter of principle.)
It's gotten more and more difficult as the different editions have evolved.
I've realized the way to win with Guile is to play "boring"... You know,
play as if you were fighting another Guile. Defensive and conservative.
I used to love to play constant attack Guile, combos, ticks etc. but in
HF if you go for this stuff against most characters (assuming the players
are competent) it just isn't as effective. Sure it still works great on
scrubs, but against other good conservative players, it just doesn't work
as well...
> My razor kick over fireball doesn't seem to work most of the time. I'm
>using roundhouse razor kick, but I seem to be getting hit by FB's a
>lot. Too late, I guess?
Well, against Ryu, I think his fierce fireball is too fast, regardless,
you don't want to use roundhouse razor kicks... Even if you DO hit and
avoid getting hit by the fireball, the razor will glance off, and you
will be set up on the way down. (for a throw, combo, whatever)
Speak of which... Has anyone else noticed that Guile can now seemingly
be hit out of his razor kick as it's first coming out? I'm not completely
sure about this... I think a major problem that UIUC players are having,
(not just Guile) is the delay in the buttons... Some of the buttons
seem to be "sticky" You push it and it executes about 1/10 second later...
This could be why we think that Guile's backfist has been delayed...
I have seen MANY instances where Guile has done the 4 hit combo, and
after three hits, you could HEAR the Guile player tapping the fierce
button for the backfist with nothing coming out... (plus it's happened
to me personally...) Another thing is when Guile hit's someone at close
range with a Sonic boom... My automatic instinct is to smack 'em with a
Standing Fierce, and though I tap the fierce button to get the punch,
it sometimes just won't come out and instead I get thrown... Anyone
else out there experiencing delay difficulties?? (I'm starting to really
think that it is our joysticks)
> In the all fierce combo, is the second fierce a crouching or standing?
>I've been trying crouching, and it hasn't worked.
Standing. You need a standing fierce punch for the F-F-SB-BF combo...
> thanks in advance for the replies...
> - Naval
--
Che-Yuan Wang
cw2...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
cyw...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
Yeng N. Xiong
Hate to tell you this, but in my opinion, that is cheap. If you slow sonic
boom near ken, and then just walk in and suplex then that's cheap (to me).
There isn't much, if anything Ken can do about. If there is, then lemme
know. And maybe my I won't consider it cheap anymore.
Thomas Calvin Cannon
Eu-Ming Lee
>I've read in some of the Guile guides that it is not a very good idea to
>follow a Sonic Boom in on Blanka. I thought of a strategy that seems to work
>on Classic. Maybe someone could point out the faults, so I don't waste my
>money trying this on a person.
In all SF versions, it is better for Guile to stay relatively far away
from Blanka.
>1) Throw a jab SB and follow it in.
>2) I would imagine most Blankas would simply jump in on Guile since he is
>not charged walking behind his SB. In classic, I've found that it never fails
>to just do a standing Forward.....it knocks him down cleanly every time.
No, if you do that, Guile walks under and backdrops you.
>3) Once he is knocked down do some fun Guile tick and repeat.
Unless, of course, if Blanka knows how to get out of Guile ticks.
>I don't see any loopholes as of yet in this strategy. Blanka can't do the
>rollieball because he'd do it into the Sonic Boom. If Blanka jumps straight up,
>Guile has a free backfist or Roundhouse. I know that Guile is supposed to walk
>under and throw if his opponent forward flips his SB, but a lot of the time, I
>find that I can't make it under without getting hit(or at least it seems that
>way).
If I'm in a situation where it's disadvantageous for me to jump, I'll
block the sonic boom. Guile is taking a risk if he approaches a Blanka
who has blocked the jab boom.
Classic and CE are two different games. The standing forward does not
work nearly as well against Blanka in CE and HF. But then again, the
same can be said about Guile's backhand and forward sweep.
>Soobum Cho
>sc...@icaen.uiowa.edu
--
Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek) eum...@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu
"Error - Keyboard not detected. Press F1 to continue."
- From the wisdom of DOS 5.0
Brian Odom
>>Slow sonic boom, suplex.
Just do a fierce DP. Go through the sonic boom and hit him on the way up.
Ever try counter throwing????
Alex Werner
2) HK over the sonic boom
3) fierce DP through the sonic boom, hitting guile, or wait and block the
sonic boom and then jab DP, hitting guile
these require moderately good timing, but not nearly as good timing
as it takes to counter a really nasty tick (like a zangief combo/tick)
David Solis
*** These are some crazy Guile patterns that do NOT work:
>> 1) Throw a jab SB and follow it in.
This is ridiciculous. Anyone could break that with Blanka. All Blanka has to
do is jump the sonic boom and do a well-timed roundhouse kick or a fierce
scratch and that can be the least of it. That can be your instant DEATH. Why?
Because if the person you are playing is someone like me, you will blink and
suddenly see about 3/4 of your energy level disappear (depending on that
machines' settings). Blanka can do a vicious combo: FIERCE CLAW FROM THE AIR
(just before he lands), FOLLOWED BY A JAB SLAP (as soon as he lands), FOLLOWED
BY A BALL (provided the player charged up for it immediately after he (or she
;-) jumps). Then, one more hit or two and you can say, "Bye bye quarters!"
>> 2) I would imagine most Blankas would simply jump in on Guile since he is
>> not charged walking behind his SB. In classic, I've found that it never f!
>> to just do a standing Forward.....it knocks him down cleanly every time.
If Blanka times out his FIERCE CLAW or his ROUNDHOUSE KICK just right, then
U
see ya! Or Blanka can do a SHORT KICK to stuff Guiles foot down his throat!
>> 3) Once he is knocked down do some fun Guile tick and repeat.
Get real! No one (excluding amateurs) will fall for the same trick more than
twice in a row. Most people switch tactics immediately.
* The best pattern to do with Guile is to throw a slow sonic boom and
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immediately duck to charge for a JackKnife. Once the player jumps and kicks -
just before the kick hits you, JACKKNIFE!
* But then again, no good player needs to rely on cheap patterns!
See ya! (If I do, I hope you got LOTS of quarters. Get ready to lose BIGTIME!)
- Dave 8-|)
--
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David Solis
>>Slow sonic boom, suplex.
>
>Hate to tell you this, but in my opinion, that is cheap. If you slow sonic
>boom near ken, and then just walk in and suplex then that's cheap (to me).
>There isn't much, if anything Ken can do about. If there is, then lemme
>know. And maybe my I won't consider it cheap anymore.
>
Sorry, but there is A LOT one can do in Ken's situation. First of all,
Ken doesn't have to get into the situation. Just before the sonic boom strikes
Ken can do a DRAGON PUNCH with JAB. He will float right through it and nail
the unsuspecting Guile in the face.
Also, Ken can block the sonic boom, and while Ken is still blocking, he can
keep pressing any of the six buttons except for JAB and SHORT. Just as Guile
is about to throw/suplex, Ken will do the throwing! This is called REVERSE,
and the existence of REVERSE contradicts the notion of cheese/cheapness in the
form claimed in the original text.
- Dave, the Master of SF2
(original, champion,
accelerator, hyper, etc)
Eugene Hsu aka HEUGE
>
>>>Slow sonic boom, suplex.
>>
>>Hate to tell you this, but in my opinion, that is cheap. If you slow sonic
>>boom near ken, and then just walk in and suplex then that's cheap (to me).
>>There isn't much, if anything Ken can do about. If there is, then lemme
>>know. And maybe my I won't consider it cheap anymore.
> Sorry, but there is A LOT one can do in Ken's situation. First of all,
>Ken doesn't have to get into the situation. Just before the sonic boom strikes
>Ken can do a DRAGON PUNCH with JAB. He will float right through it and nail
>the unsuspecting Guile in the face.
> Also, Ken can block the sonic boom, and while Ken is still blocking, he can
>keep pressing any of the six buttons except for JAB and SHORT. Just as Guile
>is about to throw/suplex, Ken will do the throwing! This is called REVERSE,
>and the existence of REVERSE contradicts the notion of cheese/cheapness in the
>form claimed in the original text.
Well Dave I suppose your assumptions are correct if we assume that the
Guile player is indeed going in for the throw. The only problem I see
here is that these same moves have been put to use so much in the past
that the Guile player will be able to recognize them...
scenario...
Guile throws a slow sonic boom....
Ryu/Ken options :
1) Throw fireball quickly : result will be a Guile Backhand and
Net loss for Ryu/Ken
2) Hurricane kick over the sonic boom : result will be a Guile
ground Fierce upper and net loss for Ryu/Ken and no damage
for Guile
3) Your recommendation to do Jab Dragon Punch : a good Guile who
may tick, but most likely won't unless really far low in
energy, will recognize this possibility. They will approach,
wait for the DP, block, and then either air of ground throw.
4) If the Block by Ryu/Ken is attempted, and a reverse throw vs.
Guile is tried from this, a good Guile (or perhaps even a
cheezy one) will work his way in using medium low sweeps,
and more sonic booms. A reverse throw (where Ken/Ryu will
be standing) will be met by a sweep.
From here on there are still 2 major options which I normally use.
5) Jump over the sonic boom and wait. a good guile will often try
and follow up with either a backhand (if close enough which
means it isn't prudent) or will see what ken/ryu is doing.
Quite often the pattern is... jump over sonic... then fireball
many guiles are prone to the "I wanna combo him silly" mentality
which I actually prefer to the "I wanna sit my weak ass in the
corner" mentality (obviouslly I don't appreciate Guiles much)
so will be awaiting the fireball. A good guile may be enticed
into jumping in, ready for the 4 hit, where it becomes a damn good
time to DP. If the Guile is charging for another Sonic, and
has not released it yet, perhaps a fireball is in order,
since if he sonics, he has no charge for a Shield Kick,
leaving him open to an airial attack, or a nice short hurricane
and DP. You guys know all this....
6) Mental fake out and DP.... either block or accept the hit
and expect a backhand. DP out of the hit to either tag his
backhand or hid low medium sweep.
Because I still play Ryu I don't use DP defense as much as a Ken
player would due simply to range.
Comment for the day : geez I was one of the original posters to this
group waaaaaaay back in the old days... I still can't believe it's
still around and kicking.... with sooooo many posts.
Comment #2. To UIUC.... you asked about ticking in CA.....
in every arcade I have yet traversed here in L.A., playing with
others of Asian decent, there is an honor code, no throw ticking
(you don't let anyone get that close and if you do get that close
you are limited to combo), no Bison ticking (Bison is just considered
cheap enough withough throw priority), and the giving of second
rounds, and drawing of thirds for extended playing time. When
playing non-Asians (drunk frat guys, hispanics who tend to group
*cough cough gang cough* and stuff) there aren't always as many
rules of politeness. At U.S.C. we used to be 100% anti tick but
some people now who are here like to throw, but that's life.
P.S. To UIUC... I am definitely not one of the best out here, not
even close... but I think CA players are the best because they
initially developed the techniques of combos and such which we
spread on the net and passed along to the rest of the world.
*grin* *grin* (as he recalls CyberGeek's first posts and early
ponderings) They have a great mastery of damage trades it seems
and enjoy playing as well. I limit my statements to that however.
At present it's highly likely that others around the nation have
risen to that same level, but overall the average Los Angeles
player (I would wager heavily) would be a superior player to
an average player at any other location across the U.S. (no
personal bragging intended... just the Facts MAaam IMHO)
actually I am from Rochester, NY so by definition, I suck here
in L.A., which I do. but then again most Rochester players
are pretty horrendous. I get sick of reading R.I.T. posts
about their greatness and such... but such is the nature of
the internet.....
Until SFII goes UDP.... let there be silence among the masters
(including you Dave) 8)
=Eugene=
> - Dave, the Master of SF2
> (original, champion,
> accelerator, hyper, etc)
*weak BIG DAVE SPELLED OUT IN ASTERIKS DELETED WITH GLEE*
--
=> Eugene Hsu (aka HEUGE) The University of Southern California <=
=< euge...@scf.usc.edu Electrical and Biomedical Engineering >=
=> "HO, HO, freaking HO... yeah yeah....who's Santa's next victim?" <=
=> KROQ 106.7's The New Detective, as he goes undercover 12/15/92 >=
peg...@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
claw-standing jab-fierce ball). I'm not a big blanka fan, but I just thought
I'd mention another combo that I thought was rather interesting (I don't
know that many because I really don't play him much). I think you can do
it two ways (same combo, two variations). It's a flying fierce claw/flying
forward kick-crouching forward kick-buffered fierce ball. Obviously, the
fierce claw-forward kick-ball would do more damage. Also, I was wondering
if it's possible to buffer a crouching fierce punch to a fierce ball. If
so, it would be a great combo if you could flying fierce-crouching fierce-
buffered fierce ball.
Eu-Ming Lee
>* The best pattern to do with Guile is to throw a slow sonic boom and
>immediately duck to charge for a JackKnife. Once the player jumps and kicks -
>just before the kick hits you, JACKKNIFE!
You would have trouble charging for the razor kick after a sonic boom if
your opponent is close enough to jump over it into your razor kick range
in the first place.
Generally, it IS good for Guile to follow a sonic boom in, but not so
that he can tick or whatever. It's to set up Guile's advantageous
position which is the distance between his forward sweep and backfist.
Eu-Ming Lee
Well, you can't. Not only that, but the other combo you mentioned doesn't
work either. You can't INTERRUPT a forward kick with a ball, at least
not without the opponent blocking the ball part. So by definition, it's
not a combo.
Brian David Waak
>*** These are some crazy Guile patterns that do NOT work:
>>> 1) Throw a jab SB and follow it in.
>This is ridiciculous. Anyone could break that with Blanka. All Blanka has to
>do is jump the sonic boom and do a well-timed roundhouse kick or a fierce
>scratch and that can be the least of it. That can be your instant DEATH. Why?
[explanation and bragging deleted]
That can only be done if Guile throws the SB at the wrong time. What, for
instance, would you do if Blanka is down, from, say, a suplex, or a FK, and
Guile does the jab SB then? If Blanka does anything but block it, given that
it was timed to hit him as he gets up, he WILL get hit. And if he blocks, of
course, he's open to ticks. I think the original poster assumed the SB was
thrown with good timing. Any good Guile player knows how to time these.
>>> 2) I would imagine most Blankas would simply jump in on Guile since he is
>>> not charged walking behind his SB. In classic, I've found that it never f!
>>> to just do a standing Forward.....it knocks him down cleanly every time.
>If Blanka times out his FIERCE CLAW or his ROUNDHOUSE KICK just right, then
>U
>see ya! Or Blanka can do a SHORT KICK to stuff Guiles foot down his throat!
Short kick? What are you talking about? The other two will hit Guile's air
forward, true, but I really think Blanka's short has nowhere NEAR enough
range to hit Guile's forward if it was timed correctly. Again, it all depends
on timing.
>>> 3) Once he is knocked down do some fun Guile tick and repeat.
>Get real! No one (excluding amateurs) will fall for the same trick more than
>twice in a row. Most people switch tactics immediately.
Get real yourself. He said "tick," not "trick." A real tick (from Guile or
otherwise) can only be defended against by a good counterthrow. There are
plenty of good players who will "fall for" ticks many times in a row simply
because they don't know how to beat them.
>* The best pattern to do with Guile is to throw a slow sonic boom and
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>immediately duck to charge for a JackKnife. Once the player jumps and kicks -
>just before the kick hits you, JACKKNIFE!
>* But then again, no good player needs to rely on cheap patterns!
Of course not. But if you consider a lot of things "cheap," you probably
aren't good enough to defeat somebody who uses them regularly. Guile vs.
Blanka can be a tough fight for both of them, and since Guile has such
shitty damage on CE and HF compared to Classic, Guile will often be forced
to "cheap" to make up for the damage Blanka can do. Also, the pattern you
mentioned won't work if Blanka is less than half a screen away (he can jump
in too fast), and if he's expecting the FK, he won't jump into it if he
knows what he's doing.
Just my $.02
-Brian Waak
bdw5...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
holme...@iscsvax.uni.edu
> peg...@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>
>>hmm...I was just interested in the combo you mentioned for blanka (fierce
>>claw-standing jab-fierce ball). I'm not a big blanka fan, but I just thought
>>I'd mention another combo that I thought was rather interesting (I don't
>>know that many because I really don't play him much). I think you can do
>>it two ways (same combo, two variations). It's a flying fierce claw/flying
>>forward kick-crouching forward kick-buffered fierce ball. Obviously, the
>>fierce claw-forward kick-ball would do more damage. Also, I was wondering
>>if it's possible to buffer a crouching fierce punch to a fierce ball. If
>>so, it would be a great combo if you could flying fierce-crouching fierce-
>>buffered fierce ball.
>
> Well, you can't. Not only that, but the other combo you mentioned doesn't
> work either. You can't INTERRUPT a forward kick with a ball, at least
> not without the opponent blocking the ball part. So by definition, it's
> not a combo.
I don't know if the buffered ball hits, but a Flying Fierce-Crouching
Foward-Fierce ball _cannot_ be blocked if executed right. Just did it tonight
to make sure. Did it four out of five times on HF. I didn't buffer the ball.
Actually I never tried to buffer it. Had the person block after the fierce but
got in the ball most of the time. One time I was just too slow getting the
ball off. I've never tried to buffer the ball but it's something new to try.
It would seem that you can't interupt the foward with the ball but the
F-foward-Ball is a legit combo. Another I use is F-strong-roundhouse. Usually
dizzies unlike the F-strong-foward or F-foward-foward. I think the guy that
posted in the original is on a SNES. The ball combo is easy on the SNES but
harder on HF. Has anyone had someone counter blanka's double knee into a bite?
I have never had it countered nor have I ever countered it myself. One last
question. How can guile counter a blanka tick when blanka is at his max bite
range? He's out of guiles throw range and I've jumped on them even after guile
started an animation sequence. I've jumped though a sonic boom and kicks to
bite him. Maybe a razor? That would be a total guessing game and the wrong
guess would still end up in a bite. I play against a pretty good guile but if
I choose to tick him with a flying foward when he's not charged he's pet food.
-Brando
______________________________________________________________________________
The meek shall inherit the Earth , but they can't do a four hitter...
Seth James Killian
>In article <C45zy...@news.cso.uiuc.edu>, eum...@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Eu-Ming Lee) writes:
>> peg...@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>>
>> Well, you can't. Not only that, but the other combo you mentioned doesn't
>> work either. You can't INTERRUPT a forward kick with a ball, at least
>> not without the opponent blocking the ball part. So by definition, it's
>> not a combo.
>I don't know if the buffered ball hits, but a Flying Fierce-Crouching
>Foward-Fierce ball _cannot_ be blocked if executed right. Just did it tonight
This is wrong. You can block it. In fact you can DP it. It may be
the case that this works on your opponents (unless you tried it on
the computer, who falls for a lot of fake combos), but it will not
work everywhere. There is no Blanka combo involving the ball. Esp.
not one preceded by a forward. You can't buffer or interrupt the
forward, but you can interrupt the crouching or standing jab, so it
stands to reason that if there were a ball combo, it would be easier
to do with these moves because they are faster and interruptable.
Right? But these combos simply don't work, try it and see. We are
at an impass here. I say you're wrong, you say it works. Well, try
it folks, and if it works for you, congrats. This combo is bogus
IMO, and don't bother to tell me about how you time it cause I've
been trying to get that to work since Classic.
>to make sure. Did it four out of five times on HF. I didn't buffer the ball.
>Actually I never tried to buffer it. Had the person block after the fierce but
>got in the ball most of the time. One time I was just too slow getting the
>ball off. I've never tried to buffer the ball but it's something new to try.
>It would seem that you can't interupt the foward with the ball but the
>F-foward-Ball is a legit combo. Another I use is F-strong-roundhouse. Usually
>dizzies unlike the F-strong-foward or F-foward-foward. I think the guy that
The above (Fierce, strong, forward/roundhouse) are both legit
Blanka combos. Not the one with the ball.
>posted in the original is on a SNES. The ball combo is easy on the SNES but
>harder on HF. Has anyone had someone counter blanka's double knee into a bite?
>I have never had it countered nor have I ever countered it myself. One last
I have countered it. Just another tick, nothing special.
Besides, if Blanka's in close enough to knee you, he's close enough
to bite you anyway. People used this as a psuedo combo here for about
a week, until they started getting thrown every time they tried it.
Kinda like the Fierce, strong, bite "combo"...
>question. How can guile counter a blanka tick when blanka is at his max bite
>range? He's out of guiles throw range and I've jumped on them even after guile
To my knowledge, he cannot. It is analogous to the SPD in
that regard. You cannot counterthrow the SPD because Z can do it
from completely outside your throw range. Same goes for Blanka.
This is not to say the SPD cannot be countered, just not counter
THROWN...
peg...@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
I've done it myself. It's just like you can buffer ryu's fireball to his
forward kick. It's not as noticeable a buffer, but it is. the FB and fierce
ball come out immediately after the forward hits. Ryu's flying roundhouse-
crouching forward-buffered FB is a combo, and so is blanka-s flying fierce-
crouching forward-buffered ball.
peg...@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
this combo on a SNES, so it probably doesn't work on CE or HF. On the SNES,
it WAS possible to buffer the crouching forward-ball. I did it, and it's
quite obvious that it IS a buffer.
Seth James Killian
I don't give a damn about your SNES. When I talk about SF2,
I am referring to the REAL SF2. I know that the Nintendo version is
a very faithful adaptation, but it is an adaptation of Classic.
When playing Classic at very high levels of skill, it is a rather
silly game, and I barely consider it SF2 anymore. It was only the
predecessor to the current well balanced game. Sorta like a monkey
compared to man. BTW, my brother has the SNES cart, and it is quite
a good compression, but the gameplay is simply not the same. I am
putting this in a little article that probably no one will read, but
I am sick of all the SNES Bullshit floating around here. Classic
was silly, and SNES is sillier still. So whenever you hear me speak,
always just assume it is HF or at least CE, unless I say otherwise.
Seth Killian
Eu-Ming Lee
> a good compression, but the gameplay is simply not the same. I am
> putting this in a little article that probably no one will read, but
> I am sick of all the SNES Bullshit floating around here. Classic
I wouldn't have read it if you (or the original poster) had bothered to
add SNES (bless you!) to the title.
> was silly, and SNES is sillier still. So whenever you hear me speak,
> always just assume it is HF or at least CE, unless I say otherwise.
SNES SF2 is a good game. The problem is that it retains the basic problems
of the arcade SF2 and adds a few of its own. It doesn't take much to
unbalance a game like SF2. The original was VERY unbalanced, IMO. CE was
better, and HF is not too much of an improvement on CE. SNES and black belt
editions have some subtle or not-so subtle additions which make it unbalanced.
It is for that reason that I don't consider it 'worthy' to discuss strategy
about those versions. Even the original SF2 isn't very 'worthy' of strategy
discussions--- good patterns, inescapable ticks, bugs, and other novelties
are about all.
There was never the strategy discussions about classic SF2 that we now have
about CE and HF... Mostly just combos, bugs, ticks, and Sheng Long.
--
Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek) eum...@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu
Friends don't let friends use Windows.
peg...@ritvax.isc.rit.edu
>peg...@ritvax.isc.rit.edu writes:
>
>>actually, I have one thing to add about my previous response. I performed
>>this combo on a SNES, so it probably doesn't work on CE or HF. On the SNES,
>>it WAS possible to buffer the crouching forward-ball. I did it, and it's
>>quite obvious that it IS a buffer.
>
> I don't give a damn about your SNES. When I talk about SF2,
What's your problem? SF2 for the SNES IS a version of SF2 so I can post all
I want about it in here. I just wanted to mention that I did the combo on
the SNES "cheesy" version and not in the arcade. Jesus christ, calm down a
bit.
> I am referring to the REAL SF2. I know that the Nintendo version is
> a very faithful adaptation, but it is an adaptation of Classic.
> When playing Classic at very high levels of skill, it is a rather
> silly game, and I barely consider it SF2 anymore. It was only the
> predecessor to the current well balanced game. Sorta like a monkey
> compared to man. BTW, my brother has the SNES cart, and it is quite
> a good compression, but the gameplay is simply not the same. I am
> putting this in a little article that probably no one will read, but
> I am sick of all the SNES Bullshit floating around here. Classic
> was silly, and SNES is sillier still. So whenever you hear me speak,
> always just assume it is HF or at least CE, unless I say otherwise.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yes master seth, whatever you say. Come on, I think comparing the SNES
version to the arcade is perfectly fine because there isn't THAT much of
a difference (I'll probably get killed for saying that). Sure, the
character-screen size ratio is different, and there's less animation, but it's
not a totally different game. Ok, I'll admit that some of the moves and combos
are a little different, but what do you expect for a 16 meg cart.?
>
> Seth Killian
>
Alain Hoang
*Ahem* I'm sorry your so offended by this CHEAP imitation of SF2 Seth,
I really had SOME respect for you. Now I just don't think I'm going to say
anything else on your abilities as a poster. Look, there are MANY SF2 players
(ME included) who LOVE the arcade... yeah I'd go play it continuously if I found
a nice roll of quarters lying around (NOT). But most of us DON'T have quarters
, time, or the income to play it as much. So I bought the SNES version, and like
you said earlier, it's NOT the true arcade. I've REALIZED that LONG LONG ago.
But it is THE ONLY adaption for now as you can see. And just because it's a
classic adaption doesn't mean SQUAT. I've gotten exponentially better by
just practicing on the SNES and using that know how on the arcades compensating
for all the nuances. So I'm not asking you, I'm TELLING you, go stick your
HIGH and MIGHTY attitude ELSEWHERE. You flamed MMSF about this attitude and
you were totally correct, but not you are falling into the same category as
him. I'm sorry but that's extremely lame of you to just sit there and hack on
a great programming effort that HAS fallen short. So watch your flames next
time oh HIGH and MIGHTY. So you play the REAL version of SF2. Good, glad you
haven't degraded to us POOR, INSIGNIFICANT SNES users. Watch your flames next
time. I'm sure the rest of US WIMPY SNES players appreciate your comments.
*FLAME OFF*
_/^-^-^-^\
/ _____ |
\ | | | "Might makes Right"
\ | |/ "Suck my Sheng Long"
|------|
|------|
|------|
|------|
Alain Hoang
hoa...@rpi.edu
Naval Ravikant
eum...@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu (Eu-Ming Lee) writes:
> It is for that reason that I don't consider it 'worthy' to discuss strategy
> about those versions. Even the original SF2 isn't very 'worthy' of strategy
> discussions--- good patterns, inescapable ticks, bugs, and other novelties
> are about all.
>
> There was never the strategy discussions about classic SF2 that we now have
> about CE and HF... Mostly just combos, bugs, ticks, and Sheng Long.
>
> --
> Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek) eum...@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu
> Friends don't let friends use Windows.
I won't even bother responding to Seth's attitude problem with SNES
(relax!), but classic SF2 does have quite a lot to offer. If you play
it enough, you will notice that there is a LOT of strategy going on,
and you can learn a lot from there and apply it to the arcade. I
remember when Seth Killian posted his article about discovering that
wonderful Honda tick of punch, grab, punch, HHS, stop in the middle,
grab, etc.. Well, hate to tell you this, Seth, but if you had an SNES
you would have discovered that a long time ago. I've been doing it
since last october, and people who have the SNES SF2 have known it for
a long time. I played the SNES a lot before I started playing in the
arcade, and I could do my combos and ticks very easily, and had my
strategy down much better than people who'd been playing the CE for
some time.
Also, SNES SF2 can offer one other thing, in terms of strategy:
variety. Buy a game genie. Of the two hundred or so codes floating out
there, mix a few, and you have a fun game with brand new strategies!
Sure it may not be balanced or fair, but if so, you can always change
it again, and the whole point of SF2 is to have fun! Playing SF2 is not
an end unto itself, and there is no "purist" way of doing it.
I adapted over 80% of the strategy I learned in SNES to the arcade,
and it works well. I can get variety out of the SNES SF2 w/ game genie,
and more strategy than you can dream of, with different settings (super
speedup, invisibility, midair moves, mine wars, super dragon punches,
no-charge moves, low damage trows, and so on), and even if you still
think that SNES sucks, well, we still have a right to post about it,
and I, for one, will be more interested in the SNES posts than the HF
ones.
Whew! Felt someone had to defend it.
Flame away....
Seth James Killian
OK, have we all got that out of our systems? Good. Now what
I meant to say, was that I was upset at being called wrong about
something which I was quite sure of, only to have my accuser then
say he was talking about SNES. I found this ridiculous, as I am
almost never talking about the SNES SF2, and if I were, it would
certainly be clear, as I do not consider the 5 versions to be in
any way interchangable. There is really only a tiny percentage of
the strategy of CE or HF contained in Classic. Classic was a game
of patterns and inescapable ticks, ie a little simplistic. I do
not consider the statement "and always assume I am talking about
HF or CE, unless I say otherwise" to be pompous, because I am talking
only about myself. Notice the absence of SNES strategy discussion
on the board. Most of the questions are about how to manipulate the
sometimes difficult pad, or what the latest game genie codes are.
IMO, this should be in the Super Nintendo group, but if people
want to continue to post here about it, I can only put them in my
kill file. Unfortunately, a lot of folks fail to put an SNES
reference in their headers, so I end up reading the childish stuff.
I have always personally considered this a board devoted to the
discussion of strategy and quirks, with the accompanying jokes or
stories, whatever. But when the biggest thread here is a dispute
between people who obviously know little about the actual game, but
have turned the discussion into a programming flame war, I am a
little upset. Fine, the content of the posts to this board is not
(thankfully) up to me, nor do I claim it should be. I read what
I want to read here, and leave the rest alone. Just do not tell
me I am wrong about SF2, when you are talking about SNES. I will
say it again: I (me, personally, my own opinion, in no way forced
on anyone else) do not give a damn about your SNES, so if you want
to correct me, have the courtesy to think about what I am talking
about. Long winded tirade over. End of Line.
Seth Killian
Naval Ravikant
Well Seth, I read your reply to me via email, I read your posts, and
I, for one, am of the opinion that you are the most arrogant, pompous,
stuck up SOB that I have ever had the distinct displeasure of running
across. I'll tell you what: I will include SNES on every message that I
post from now on involving the SNES, as long as you put a CE or HF in
front of your articles. Respect other people's right to do what they
want to do, and play what they want to play, instead of declaring it
childish and simplistic. With that kind of attitude, you'll be
criticizing SF2:CE on the Genesis, probably talking about how it
doesn't have the same "strategy" as HF. Most of us play all of the
editions, understand their shortcomings and brighter points, and enjoy
both the arcade and the SNES. I, personally, would like to see more
strategy discussions, but don't personally have the time to post,
except when it has to be done to reply to some obnoxious statement by
some arrogant loudmouth. Take your flames and stick 'em where the sun
don't shine. Enough said.
|_ord |/ader
> [Flame and discussion deleted]
Hi ho, hi ho, off to UseNet I post (flameproof jumpsuit intact):
I don't want to make any comments about the flame, except to say that
the Net is not a good way to judge how people are really like. Most of
those comments were out of line with what Seth said, and you must have
read some his stuff the wrong way. I thought that his argument was
valid...
This is just a bit out of hand... I believe that there were some postings
a while back (called "set some standards here") that dealt with this. Now,
that article and the follow up made the point that most of the discussion
taking place in the newsgroup is indeed about Hyper Fighter. Some is about
the Champion Edition, but it is obvious that this is not a big deal, since
HF is evolved straight from the exact same motherboard. Now, Classic and
the SNES are indeed versions of SF2. However, it just so happens that
*most* people do not discuss it at default. There are some, and they
generally make this known, either in the SUBJECT HEADER or in the TEXT OF THE
ARTICLE. It is not hard to say SNES, but it is not hard to say HF or CE
either. However, these *are* the most played versions of the game, and
do have the most depth. Therefore, it is natural that the more versed
people in SF2 would want to play these arcade versions (not to say that ALL
of them do).
IMO, the SNES is boring. Why would I play it? If I happen to talk
about it, or make any comments, I'm sure to include a line saying that
it is SNES. Remember that when the newsgroup was created, there
was no SNES version, and it was for the arcade version. As the game
progressed, so did the `default' game of discussion. Now, it is fact
that the newest version of the game is HF, and that most people play HF.
There are a few who play SNES exclusively, and don't exactly realize the
differences between the games. (Why do you think newbie arcade players,
but SNES 'masters' get whipped at the arcades?) There are vast differences
between the games now, and they are related in ways, but they are different
enough to almost be considered two different games. Most people would say
that SNES should be included when it is being talked about. It is rather
obvious when someone mentions HF (you can't do an air HK on SNES). The
games are different as you go up, but if you go down, the games share
some common elements, and then they might apply in certain way to each
of the games. But, there are enough differences to cause this little
flame to occur. It could be like talking about cars of different years.
A car of an older model might not have something that a newer one does,
and you say something. You are told you were wrong, but neither of you
are talking about the same thing...
Anyways, I'm sure I've put half of you to sleep by now, but I thought
that this had gone too far. If Naval Rivikant had said SNES in the
first place (reminder: STANDARDS and DEFAULT game), then it could have
been avoided. I personally think that posts w/o the SNES: header would
be appropriate for alt.games.snes. If you post about SNES, and it is
not OBVIOUS, mention the SNES somewhere in your post. And if Seth
had said HF things would have been OK, but it turns out that HF happens
to be the main point of discussion here...
Oh, credit to Eu-Ming on the standards article. If I mis-quoted or
forgot something, sorry!
--
Caine Schneider (|_ord |/ader) ca...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
"Flame me if you dare, I will flame you back." -Ken
"Get lost, you can't flame with the best of them." -M. Bison
--
Brian Odom
Am I the only one who actually sides with Seth??? I don't believe he's
arrogant, pompous, etc.; all he was saying that when speaking of SF2, we should
assume HF. At least that's what I assume. Me, personally, I don't give a damn
either about SNES. If you are referring to SNES, you should specify that. If
you don't specify it, then you should assume HF. That's all Seth was trying to
say. Sure, this is alt.games.sf2, but I think that SNES stuff could be moved
to rec.games.video. That is for the discussion of home systems game, is it
not?? I don't mind SNES material, but get with it folks, that's old. That's
what Seth means by "childish". Sure, we all played classic, but let classic
collect its dust. It's old and has many bugs, slow, and I don't give a damn
about it anymore. I only play it to work on my Guile bugs. :) SNES is an
adaptation off of classic, which is old. HF is what I consider SF2 and that
should be the standard here.
Also, we should get rid of these stupid TCE abbreviations. They bug the hell
out of me. For some people, TCE means "Turbo Champion Edition" and for others,
it means "The Champion Edition". It shouldn't mean "The CE". Get that "the"
out of there. If you like "the", then go to Ohio State (oops, tOSU).
I see where Seth may have been a little harsh, but come on, many of us here
don't give a damn about SNES strategies, for it's not the "real" SF2. That's
like having an alt.games.pac-man newsgroup, and discussing lap-top pac-man
patterns. I mean, who would give a damn when you should refer to the real
thing.
St. Michael
[ good stuff deleted ]
>except when it has to be done to reply to some obnoxious statement by
>some arrogant loudmouth. Take your flames and stick 'em where the sun
>don't shine. Enough said.
> Naval.R...@Dartmouth.Edu
Hey you jerk, you didn't leave anything for me to say. :)
---Mike (mjk3...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu)
---"Don't make fun of my ascii pics."
_______
| |
| R.I.P.|
| Seth |
| |
-------------------------
KILL: seth, killian...
St. Michael
>Am I the only one who actually sides with Seth??? I don't believe he's
>arrogant, pompous, etc.; all he was saying that when speaking of SF2, we should
>assume HF. At least that's what I assume. Me, personally, I don't give a damn
>either about SNES. If you are referring to SNES, you should specify that. If
This I agree with, you SHOULD state in you subject header which system
you are refering to. It would save ALL of us some headaches...
>you don't specify it, then you should assume HF. That's all Seth was trying to
>say. Sure, this is alt.games.sf2, but I think that SNES stuff could be moved
>to rec.games.video. That is for the discussion of home systems game, is it
What? Then I'd have to hear about all those stupid Super Mario Bro.
secret worlds and shit... noway bro I'm sticking right here. :)
>not?? I don't mind SNES material, but get with it folks, that's old. That's
>what Seth means by "childish". Sure, we all played classic, but let classic
>collect its dust. It's old and has many bugs, slow, and I don't give a damn
Maybe we should take a census to see how many of us still play what
versions of SF2...? I for one still play all the versions including
Classic, SNES, CE, and HF... I enjoy the variety I get playing each
one. How about the rest of you? SNES is great for trashing your
arcade buddies who don't know how to use the control pads.. hehe.
>Also, we should get rid of these stupid TCE abbreviations. They bug the hell
>out of me. For some people, TCE means "Turbo Champion Edition" and for others,
>it means "The Champion Edition". It shouldn't mean "The CE". Get that "the"
>out of there. If you like "the", then go to Ohio State (oops, tOSU).
Another agreement! I hate those abrev too.
>I see where Seth may have been a little harsh, but come on, many of us here
"Treat others as you would have them treat you..." J.C.
"What comes around, goes around..." M.E.
---Mike (mjk3...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu)
---Send flames to me in email...
St. Michael
>Naval.R...@dartmouth.edu (Naval Ravikant) flamed:
>
>> [Flame and discussion deleted]
>Hi ho, hi ho, off to UseNet I post (flameproof jumpsuit intact):
> I don't want to make any comments about the flame, except to say that
>the Net is not a good way to judge how people are really like. Most of
>those comments were out of line with what Seth said, and you must have
>read some his stuff the wrong way. I thought that his argument was
>valid...
[ valid stuff deleted ]
> Anyways, I'm sure I've put half of you to sleep by now, but I thought
>that this had gone too far. If Naval Rivikant had said SNES in the
>first place (reminder: STANDARDS and DEFAULT game), then it could have
>been avoided. I personally think that posts w/o the SNES: header would
>be appropriate for alt.games.snes. If you post about SNES, and it is
>not OBVIOUS, mention the SNES somewhere in your post. And if Seth
>had said HF things would have been OK, but it turns out that HF happens
>to be the main point of discussion here...
I would just like to take this time to remind ppl here of something
called "internet etiquette". It is a simple theory that if you respect
your fellow netter then he will respect you. I thank you LV, for
setting the record straight about your opinions and putting it in a
way that doesn't require us SNES owners to get bent out of shape about
it. Post like these are the key to keeping the flames down.
BTW: I like my SNES, I think of it as a home trainer...
---Mike "mikester" (mjk3...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu)
---I'm still working on my sig...
Alain Hoang
I have to agree with YOU Naval. MAybe Seth got bored and died away on
the classic and considers HF the ONLY SF2 available. Well too bad for him, I
hate to say this but there are times I'd rather play the CE to practice
characters that didn't make over so well in HF. Dhalsim (Yeah I rot with him),
and Bison.
But getting to your point Naval, yes I found so many strategies with the
SNES version. Right now I'm in the process of pissing off all the SNES players
I know by ticking them so they tick me back. I haven't really gotten the hang
of GOOD counterticking on the SNES (perhaps it's harder, and Seth don't say
ANYTHING about this, I don't want yout STINKIN' opinion, just hit 'n' and leave
us poor SNES players alone). But I've gotten the small hang of block jump
kicks and sacking with Dhalsim (after all monster throw range helps :). But
I still can't seem to get it with Ryu (who is my main dude on SNES). Pointers
on counterthrowing on SNES? If I can get them there, I can apply it to the
arcade with a little thought and time.
Oh BTW with Ryu/Ken on SNES I have this utter fascination for prodding
Blanka (at Level 7 of course... it's no fun on the other ones) into ANY
strength of electricity and throwing him out of it. Oh it's so fun, it might
be sort of old but I love when people stare at Blanka getting his butt thrown
by me :) They just kind of go "You can do that??!" then I do it again :).
Still haven't gotten the hang of it on the arcade CE or HF, the throw range
for the arcade seems to change slightly throwing off my throwing time ACK.
Naval Ravikant
hoa...@bray1b.its.rpi.edu (Alain Hoang) writes:
> I have to agree with YOU Naval. MAybe Seth got bored and died away on
> the classic and considers HF the ONLY SF2 available. Well too bad for him, I
> hate to say this but there are times I'd rather play the CE to practice
> characters that didn't make over so well in HF. Dhalsim (Yeah I rot with him),
> and Bison.
I definitely agrre with you in that regard. Guile, too, seems more
playable on CE. (I hate this constantly weakening Guile business.
What's next? SF3: You play Guile's bloody corpse?) BTW, the reason I
got really pissed at Seth's arrogance was not so much because of the
posts (He doesn't come across as too bad), but in the email message he
sent me. He ended with the following (direct quote):
" One final bit of unpleasantness towards a group of SF2
afficianados
who I wouldn't mind seeing fall off the planet: Talk all you want
about how great your SNES has made you. There are a million gaming
buttheads at least as good as you at the cart. Then come to the
arcade, and have all your little pride wiped away by someone who
plays the real thing... See ya at the national tourney, SNES boy..."
Seriously, you don't have to like the SNES, but why do you have to
hate everyone who plays it? Whenever I go to NY and see people playing
the Turbo hacked versions where they're uzi-firing fireballs, I dislike
the game, but if that's what they have fun doing, more power to them!
>
> But getting to your point Naval, yes I found so many strategies with the
> SNES version. Right now I'm in the process of pissing off all the SNES players
> I know by ticking them so they tick me back. I haven't really gotten the hang
> of GOOD counterticking on the SNES (perhaps it's harder, and Seth don't say
> ANYTHING about this, I don't want yout STINKIN' opinion, just hit 'n' and leave
> us poor SNES players alone). But I've gotten the small hang of block jump
> kicks and sacking with Dhalsim (after all monster throw range helps :). But
> I still can't seem to get it with Ryu (who is my main dude on SNES). Pointers
> on counterthrowing on SNES? If I can get them there, I can apply it to the
> arcade with a little thought and time.
The cool thing about playing with ticking is that it adds a lot more
strategy by turning the match into as much of a guessing game as a
battle of reflexes. If you take the hit, you'll almost always get the
throw, but then, there's always the chance the guy is comboing! As for
getting out of ticks:
If you're having trouble getting your timing down, go for the sac
throw (risky, opponent could be comboing) or block, and right as they
hit the ground, while pushing back, tap the throw button once. Use the
strong throw (avoid fierce or roundhouse), and if you're still having
problems, rapid fire the button.
If they're ticking you with air attacks, honda, guile, and blanka
can keep them at bay with their excellent air defenses (Ken/Ryu too,
butif you're stuck in fireball pose..). If they're ticking on the
ground, Guile can razor kick out of most ticks easily, blanka can ball
out of some, ken/ryu dragon punch out of some, short kick out of
others, zangief can use crouching throws (a powerful defensive weapon)
to get out of most, and honda, chun-li and dhalsim, with their
excellent throws, can simply counterthrow. Even if your opponent has
counterthrowing down to a fine art, ticking is still useful because it
keep's 'em guessing. Combo's are even more useful simply because a well
placed combo can inflict a lot more damage than a tick can. (Ie., land
one neck roundhouse, fierce, fierce dragon with Ken, and you've got 'em
dizzy. Follow up with another (preferably different) combo that doesn't
end in a fierce DP, and you've landed a total of 6 powerful hits. Much
better damage than one measly throw. Of course, if you got them with
Guile or Chun-li, it's "game over man". You can just keep comboing them
to rediziness till they're dead. Ken/Ryu can also sometimes (NOT
always) redizzy a couple of the chars. (Ie., Guile) with jab, double
hit jab DP)
>
> Oh BTW with Ryu/Ken on SNES I have this utter fascination for prodding
> Blanka (at Level 7 of course... it's no fun on the other ones) into ANY
> strength of electricity and throwing him out of it. Oh it's so fun, it might
> be sort of old but I love when people stare at Blanka getting his butt thrown
> by me :) They just kind of go "You can do that??!" then I do it again :).
> Still haven't gotten the hang of it on the arcade CE or HF, the throw range
> for the arcade seems to change slightly throwing off my throwing time ACK
Cool "wow the crowd" trick. I like. If you have a game genie, try
playing with the speedup codes for a day or two. Then go to the arcade
and watch everyone playing in slo-mo. Your reaction time will have
improved massively.
Happy Streetfighting,
- Naval
Seth James Killian
>In article <hv_...@rpi.edu>
>hoa...@bray1b.its.rpi.edu (Alain Hoang) writes:
>What's next? SF3: You play Guile's bloody corpse?) BTW, the reason I
>got really pissed at Seth's arrogance was not so much because of the
>posts (He doesn't come across as too bad), but in the email message he
>sent me. He ended with the following (direct quote):
> " One final bit of unpleasantness towards a group of SF2
>afficianados
> who I wouldn't mind seeing fall off the planet: Talk all you want
> about how great your SNES has made you. There are a million gaming
> buttheads at least as good as you at the cart. Then come to the
> arcade, and have all your little pride wiped away by someone who
> plays the real thing... See ya at the national tourney, SNES boy..."
Yes, its true sportsfans, I said this. Now think about the
context. It was a PRIVATE e-mail address, which is why I did not
litter the net with personal follow up flames. I don't want to
hear this prick say another word about netiquette, as this is one
of the net's high crimes. Look, the SNES is a fun game. Playing
it does not instantly make you a scrub, and it is not evil. It
also, however, can not be equated to the arcade version. If you
master the SNES and can beat the local masters, good for you. I
know, from personal experience, there are a number of differences
that make the timing significantly different. I think that news
for SNES games should be posted to alt.super.nes, where they belong.
If you want to post about it here, just try to keep it free of game
genie sillyness, and talk strategy. I am not the owner of this
group, by any means, so I can only kill file these posts, but try not
to take everything so personally. If you are a master of SNES, then
there you go, but to me, it means nothing in the arcade.
Seth Killian
Brian Odom
>In article <hv_...@rpi.edu>
>hoa...@bray1b.its.rpi.edu (Alain Hoang) writes:
>> I have to agree with YOU Naval. MAybe Seth got bored and died away on
>> the classic and considers HF the ONLY SF2 available. Well too bad for him, I
>> hate to say this but there are times I'd rather play the CE to practice
>> characters that didn't make over so well in HF. Dhalsim (Yeah I rot with him),
>> and Bison.
> I definitely agrre with you in that regard. Guile, too, seems more
>playable on CE. (I hate this constantly weakening Guile business.
>What's next? SF3: You play Guile's bloody corpse?) BTW, the reason I
>got really pissed at Seth's arrogance was not so much because of the
>posts (He doesn't come across as too bad), but in the email message he
>sent me. He ended with the following (direct quote):
Maybe, it's me, but I don't think Guile was weaken in HF. It seems to me that
his short razor does slightly more damage. Sometimes while playing, it feels
like I'm getting my ass kicked, but somehow I'm winning. I think everyone got
just a little stronger, but not much to make Guile suck. If you want to talk
about WEAKENING look no further than DHALSIM. They made him slower?? I still
don't know why. He had a defensive style and could attack offensively with
his drills on CE, but now he is just defensive and it's even EASIER to hit his
limbs and he does even LESS damage. Geez!!! What a wimp, although I have been
winning with him lately. He sucks against Chun Li and Zangief. Yes, Zangief
who Dhalsim used to rule. It's too easy to hit his limbs now. Oh and did I
mention Sagat? Just leave the machine.... Talk about damage discrepancies...
Guile is the man, but he SUCKS against Ryu. Faster FB, better HK, and more
damage make Ryu damn near impossible to fight against. Guile vs. Ken is just
about even.
Dhalsim was soooo versatile in CE....
holme...@iscsvax.uni.edu
> In article <hv_...@rpi.edu>
> hoa...@bray1b.its.rpi.edu (Alain Hoang) writes:
>
>> I have to agree with YOU Naval. MAybe Seth got bored and died away on
>> the classic and considers HF the ONLY SF2 available. Well too bad for him, I
>> hate to say this but there are times I'd rather play the CE to practice
>> characters that didn't make over so well in HF. Dhalsim (Yeah I rot with him),
>> and Bison.
> I definitely agrre with you in that regard. Guile, too, seems more
> playable on CE. (I hate this constantly weakening Guile business.
> What's next? SF3: You play Guile's bloody corpse?) BTW, the reason I
> got really pissed at Seth's arrogance was not so much because of the
> posts (He doesn't come across as too bad), but in the email message he
> sent me. He ended with the following (direct quote):
>
> " One final bit of unpleasantness towards a group of SF2
> afficianados
> who I wouldn't mind seeing fall off the planet: Talk all you want
> about how great your SNES has made you. There are a million gaming
> buttheads at least as good as you at the cart. Then come to the
> arcade, and have all your little pride wiped away by someone who
> plays the real thing... See ya at the national tourney, SNES boy..."
*sigh* I would love it if they had one but I'm about 99% sure that since they
haven't had one now, they never will. I kinda wonder how some of the posters
on this group would do. Anyway, it seems that you equate a good SNES SF2
player as not able to play the real thing. I'd like to say that I'm equally
good at both. SNES does have a lot of flaws, like classic, but a good SNES
player and good HF player don't always have to be independant. The thing I do
agree with is, but isn't really the point, that a good or even master SNES
player (Master sounds cheesy with the SNES) is absolutly no match against a
master HF player. Have you ever thought that there are millions of "buttheads"
as good as you? I've traveled around a bit and have yet to find anyone that
was vastly superior since CE came out. Only one I would consider better than
me at that time. I have however played many that I would say were as good as
me, or bad however you want to put it. Think you're good? Well I've never met
anyone that was good and didn't think it, including my self.
-Brando
______________________________________________________________________________
If I had one wish, I'd wish for all my quarter back so I could buy a Porsche
Eu-Ming Lee
>Am I the only one who actually sides with Seth??? I don't believe he's
>arrogant, pompous, etc.; all he was saying that when speaking of SF2, we should
Just because he's arrogant, pompous, etc., doesn't invalidate his point.
SF2 means HF here. That's the newest version of the game out, and hence
the one which should receive the most attention. When another version comes
out, we'll let that one be the default SF2. All other adaptations, Classic,
CE, Blackbelt, SNES, Sega, etc. should be explicitly stated within the post.
I had replied to a post containing some Blanka combos. I replied because
I felt that it would be in the interest of the net for me to express my
opinions about which of those combos were 'true' combos, and which weren't.
When the reply to that (and Seth's similar reply) came back. It said,
in essence, "You're wrong. I know this for a FACT." However, in a followup
post, the poster said, "Oh, btw, we're talking about SNES."
Now, I took the time and effort to contribute to this newsgroup in a long
and detailed post. I don't think it's too much trouble to put SNES into
the subject heading. And besides, you will receive much more accurate
information to your post.
I think this should be in the FAQ for netiquette on alt.games.sf2. Don't
worry, other newsgroups have this problem too, sometimes. I mean, can
you imagine the dogs vs. cats flamewars on rec.pets? :) So save us all
the hassle and put something in the subject so that we know what you mean.
And the default is HF, unless Capcom comes out with something newer...
The SNES people have every right to be here, but try to be considerate,
and don't waste our time if that's not what we're interested in.
--
Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek) eum...@mrcnext.cso.uiuc.edu
Friends don't let friends use Windows.
Brian David Waak
> I have to agree with YOU Naval. MAybe Seth got bored and died away on
>the classic and considers HF the ONLY SF2 available. Well too bad for him, I
>hate to say this but there are times I'd rather play the CE to practice
>characters that didn't make over so well in HF. Dhalsim (Yeah I rot with him),
>and Bison.
I agree. I play any version I can. HF is my favorite, but I sure appreciate
the opportunity to play it for free at home. 'Specially after I learned how
to get Guile's 4-hitter on the keypad... :)
> But getting to your point Naval, yes I found so many strategies with the
>SNES version. Right now I'm in the process of pissing off all the SNES players
>I know by ticking them so they tick me back. I haven't really gotten the hang
>of GOOD counterticking on the SNES (perhaps it's harder, and Seth don't say
>ANYTHING about this, I don't want yout STINKIN' opinion, just hit 'n' and leave
>us poor SNES players alone). But I've gotten the small hang of block jump
>kicks and sacking with Dhalsim (after all monster throw range helps :). But
>I still can't seem to get it with Ryu (who is my main dude on SNES). Pointers
>on counterthrowing on SNES? If I can get them there, I can apply it to the
>arcade with a little thought and time.
Actually, I would advise getting your throw timing on a fast arcade machine
perfect before trying to do so on SNES. I haven't found the ability to
translate such nuances as throws and combos from SNES to an arcade machine,
but I do know that what works well in the arcade can be made easily to work
exceedingly well on SNES. Provided, of course, it doesn't use post-Classic
moves like Chun Li's fireball or Guile's knee. I play several characters
well (not master level with any but Vega, but well) in the arcade, but my
SNES Guile, Chun Li, and Dhalsim are killers in the extreme. The main im-
provement to my SNES Chun Li came after I learned the timing for throws well
on HF. Then, when I went home, my roommate who plays Chun almost exclusively,
was very surprised to find me easily counterthrowing him, and aerial throwing
him, where a few weeks ago he was much better at throwing than me and almost
certainly would have gotten one himself. I've translated several moves I know, or even have only SEEN, in the arcade, to SNES, but about the only thing I'm
able to translate from SNES to arcade is the knowledge of how to do special
moves.
> Oh BTW with Ryu/Ken on SNES I have this utter fascination for prodding
>Blanka (at Level 7 of course... it's no fun on the other ones) into ANY
>strength of electricity and throwing him out of it. Oh it's so fun, it might
>be sort of old but I love when people stare at Blanka getting his butt thrown
>by me :) They just kind of go "You can do that??!" then I do it again :).
>Still haven't gotten the hang of it on the arcade CE or HF, the throw range
>for the arcade seems to change slightly throwing off my throwing time ACK.
Sounds fun. Maybe I'll go try that after I finish reading my newsgroups- I
Don't play Ryu/Ken very much on SNES, but it's a fun diversion. I'd hate to
have to try that on HF, though.
-Brian Waak
bdw5...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu