I'll Partially Back JB Gainz and few other things....
Adrian Alan Ratliff
Now the one thing I'll say for JB is that he does NOT have to got to
EEC4 to prove anything. I don't know the guy and I really don't
remember any of his pasts post. I tend to weed out any posts without
interesting subjects. I read maybe half the posts here at most. But
I'm digressing...
Do those of you who take a martial art make your master fight in
tounaments to prove himself? Do those of you in school expect your
teachers to fly to conventions to hear the latest in that field?
Probably not. And if JB is a scrub, why do you want him there? To add
to the winners pot? To humiliate him?
I know JB is no master but either are we. What if he is the best on
this NG and is just weird and excentric in his posts? He could play
rarely because he's so good? None of us know for sure, since all of his
friends are considered him under a different name.
I don't know of when JB has mentioned that he could beat us all or when
he was the best. As for his tone, I think a lot is being misconstrued.
Onaje, you once posted that a lot of people think your tone is arrogance
but that it is just that you know you are right and want others to know
also. I. When I first heard of you it was in a post where someone said
"The only other person who probably believes you is I...@I.com" When I
first heard this I thought it wa a joke like if I said "the only person
I believe is M...@me.com"
What I'm getting at is that I don't see why JB is so important, no
offense JB. He posts and if it is wrong or uninteresting I just mark it
read and go on to the next. It seems that, from his tone in his posts,
that he is at least acting sorry, but the flames against him keep
growing. Why are you all so obsessed with proving him wrong? It will
never happen. He'll be him and you'll be you. Maybe if you became
friends with him he'd one day change but that's iffy.
Look, If I post "Valle and Choi are suckers. I'm da Best." And follow
with a body that just rambles incoherently, I could probably get 15
posts under it before I go away for a while happy that I got so many
people rilled up. BUT, if I post "How Specifically could I beat Valle
and Choi" or something to that affect maybe, just maybe 1 of you would
reply. JB is like Howard Stern. People call and listen to him because
they DISAGREE with him. They like getting angry (one train of thought.
Therory I heard a while ago).
Second, if I posted that suckers comment, I'd probably get a lot of
flames but 3 of you might post why I couldn't beat them, therefore I
could reverse it to find out how to beat them.
If JB is the kind of guy who likes to get people mad and rilled up for
attention, which I know several people of that personality type, it's
BEST to LEAVE the posts UNANSWERED. So what if he says we're all
monkeys and Scorpion beats Ryu for Free. So what?
It reminds me of the Bad Guy-Good Girl syndrome. The girl wants to feel
she accomplished something so she dates the bad guy and tries to change
him. Just let him be and he'll learn his manners.
If you all really want him at EEC4 just so you can try and humiliate him
for all his annoying posts, take up a collection. But... imagine if he
got first place.
Don't say it can't happen, just imagine. The day after he'd be on the NG
bragging "Who's the man?" and "Now you should all listen to me now huh?"
Or maybe he won't be because we all expect that and if he isn't we'll
feel stupid. But there will be post after post from people about how he
was lucky and stuff. He won't win either way. Neither will we.
Why not everytime you read a post that makes you angry take a walk or 10
deep breathes or consider the consequences of a retaliation post? What
about assigning one of us to handle all bad and annoying posts. I'm
serious. Say Onaje. We could elect him, or someone else as monitor. If
someone posts something we don't like we all e-mail Onaje with what we
don't like about it. Then he takes all of it and on the beginning of the
second day, so everyone has had a chance to read it and respond he posts
under it the sentiments of all of us in a diplomatic way that describes
the weakness of the argument and then the correction to it. That way we
all get to say what we feel and the the bandwith drops. But we only do
this for posts that annoy us, ETA and Name posts would be normal if they
don't annoy. Also, if Onaje missed something, we could send to him
again and then when he feels he has all the requests for an addendum, he
posts one LAST time. Voila, everything is satisfied. We could even post
a FAQ that says the above everyweek on the NG.
Also, everything on the NG is oppinion. Rarely is anything for fact. I
regularly read soc.history.what-if and it's all about what if this
happened. It is very interesting because the intelligence tends to be
high and they logically explain how Hitler could have turned Germany
into an Isolationist Economic Superpower and What If Rome had totally
destroyed Greece. Even those of you who believ that you are right about
Parries being too powerful and combos being too strong and throws being
cheap. Logic can be bent.
A) The sky is blue.
B) The ocean is blue.
C) The Sky is the ocean.
Now ONLY using whats given in the above is it true? Yes. I know that the
sky is not the ocean (kinda poetic. clouds are the crests of waves. : )
) but if that is all I'm goin on then it is true. There are two pieces
of information there, to answer the question as false I must be using my
experiences and my knowledge by adding it to the question. You know the
old "Can God create a stone so heavy he can not lift it paradox" and the
"Can God create a triangle that is a circle."
I'm NOT looking for you all t osend or post the answers but on the last
on the answer is likely NO and here's why. The definition of a triangle
is that it has three sides. The definition of a circle is that it has no
sides per se, but is one big, well, circle. For God to create a round
triangle, he would have to change our definitions of the word since by
our restictive vocabulary it is not possible. But he is God you say.
Yes, but by Human definition a triangle can not be a circle. But he is
all Powerful. Yes, but that does not mean a triangle can be a circle
unless the definitions we use to destinguish one from the other are
changed.
Who am I to say what God can and cannot do? Nobody, but either are you.
Only God truly knows if he exists and what he can do. All I can do is
show what must be overcome for a specific thing to take place. He CAN
make a circular triangle by changing our definitions or inventing a new
one.
The definition of a weed in a dictionary is "any plant growing where you
do not want it to." So my neighbors Roses are weeds and my Foxtails are
the talk of the neighborhood.
What if you tried to convince yourself that whatever you disagreed with
you then pretend to believe that it is true.
Say you read "Throws are cheap."
You don't believe it and before you flame the guy you think, "Alright,
if throws were cheap, how would I feel? Could I back this up? Is it
possible they aren't? Could I think that they are because I'm frustrated
that I lose to throwers?"
Then you calmly, coming form both sides, post that throws could be cheap
in certain moments but they generally aren't and that the ways to get
out of them are XXX and to practice XXX and that the best ways to avoid
being thrown are X,Y and Z.
I know JB and all of you as much as you know me. Give the guy a break.
Maybe ,God forbid, he has a bad family life or something.
No one appointed any of us the NG monitors. Or for that matter the
monitors of human nature.
The time spent doing some good for the NG or ourselves is given to
trivial little things that eat up parts of our life. You won't be on
your death bed wishing you had responded to one of JBs posts.
It's pretty easy to judge from a computer screen huh?
Sincerely and with all Due Respect,
Adrian Ratliff
Adrian Alan Ratliff
Anything I agreed with from the reply has been snipped...
Cammy White wrote:
> Adrian Alan Ratliff wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> <snip>
> > Do those of you who take a martial art make your master fight in
> > tounaments to prove himself? Do those of you in school expect your
> > teachers to fly to conventions to hear the latest in that field?
>
> My master got the Gold Medal in the '88 Seoul Olympics in TKD... I think
> that's enough proof for me. ^^; My professors *do* attend conventions all
> the time... and many times they officiate them. *sigh*
I'm impressed. Your life experiences are not mine or anyone elses. I would
think that your experience is relatively rare. The question is "Do you currently
expect and want your master and teachers to go prove themselves?"
>
>
> > Probably not. And if JB is a scrub, why do you want him there? To add
> > to the winners pot? To humiliate him?
>
> JB (not Gainz) said he was really good. I want to know if he really *is*
> good. That would actually lend a little more credibility to what he says.
>
I'll check on this later this week. All I hear of is JB Gainz recently and the
thread I see is called "JB Gainz, Come to ECC4." I figured he was of discussion.
>
> > I know JB is no master but either are we. What if he is the best on
> > this NG and is just weird and excentric in his posts? He could play
>
> If that were true, why would he be posting information that was wrong?
>
Cause he is weird and excentric. He gets a kick out of misinformation.
*****See bottom of post******
>
> > rarely because he's so good? None of us know for sure, since all of his
> > friends are considered him under a different name.
>
> I think you have JB and JB Gainz confused. JB Gainz is the one who said that
> SF was dead on the West Coast. JB is the one from New York who doesn't think
> tournaments are necessary because he can just play at his local arcade
> instead.
>
Obviously I do. Didn't gainz reply to the "You Bitches Better leave JBGainz
alone." with something like "Thanks--but they'll think I'm you."
>
> > I don't know of when JB has mentioned that he could beat us all or when
> > he was the best. As for his tone, I think a lot is being misconstrued.
>
> He said that people walk away from him saying 'that boy has mad skills, I
> got lucky by beating him' or 'I'm mad, he beat me'. JB Gainz never said
> anything of the sort, he just posted lots of silly misinformation.
***Bear with me, at bottom***
>
> > Onaje, you once posted that a lot of people think your tone is arrogance
> > but that it is just that you know you are right and want others to know
> > also. I. When I first heard of you it was in a post where someone said
> > "The only other person who probably believes you is I...@I.com" When I
> > first heard this I thought it wa a joke like if I said "the only person
> > I believe is M...@me.com"
> >
> > What I'm getting at is that I don't see why JB is so important, no
> > offense JB. He posts and if it is wrong or uninteresting I just mark it
> > read and go on to the next. It seems that, from his tone in his posts,
>
> He's not interesting. Both of them are just funny to watch, since they
> blindly believe what they keep saying.
>
Don't you blindly believe what you already believe and say? Is it to be gathered
thet you do not blindly believ in what you say? Take out the 'blindly,' do you
not believe in what you say? Their coming off blindly is your opinion, is it
not? I doubt that you live in a 100% doubt of everything, so you must have
accepted certain things as true.
>
> > that he is at least acting sorry, but the flames against him keep
> > growing. Why are you all so obsessed with proving him wrong? It will
> > never happen. He'll be him and you'll be you. Maybe if you became
> > friends with him he'd one day change but that's iffy.
>
> We're not obsessed with proving him wrong. After we *prove* him wrong, he
> continues the thread...
Which leads to the idea that since it has no effect on his posting frrquency and
might actually increase it, it should probably be avoided.
>
>
> > Look, If I post "Valle and Choi are suckers. I'm da Best." And follow
> > with a body that just rambles incoherently, I could probably get 15
> > posts under it before I go away for a while happy that I got so many
> > people rilled up. BUT, if I post "How Specifically could I beat Valle
> > and Choi" or something to that affect maybe, just maybe 1 of you would
> > reply. JB is like Howard Stern. People call and listen to him because
>
> Actually, I think not... If you posted on how to beat Valle and Choi, I'd
> read it, and respond with what I thought was either wrong with your
> argument, or what I thought could be done to deal with little loopholes you
> may not have thought of.
Oh, I'm sorry. The second imaginary post is a little hard to understand. It is a
question. "HOW could I beat Valle and Choi, SPECIFICALLY?" I don't believe many
if at all people on this group would answer it with ideas I can use. People
tend to with hold info like that.
>
> > they DISAGREE with him. They like getting angry (one train of thought.
> > Therory I heard a while ago).
> >
> > Second, if I posted that suckers comment, I'd probably get a lot of
> > flames but 3 of you might post why I couldn't beat them, therefore I
> > could reverse it to find out how to beat them.
>
> You're assuming an awful lot here...
Actually I'm not. On all the NGs I visit, unless I choose it for the
intellectual content and even then, the people who post "stupid" things like
"The Holocaust Never Happened" or "Einstein is 100% Wrong" will get huge threads
under them of flames. Look at "SF2 Stuff" on this NG. 45!!!! posts long. As for
the Stern thing, some psychologist was talking about him on a radio program. He
is also extreme, Stern is, and says a lot of things people think but wouldn't
say themselves. I personally think he is the ultimate troll--inciting people to
either love him or hate him by what he says, looking for fights.
>
> <snip>
>
> > If you all really want him at EEC4 just so you can try and humiliate him
> > for all his annoying posts, take up a collection. But... imagine if he
> > got first place.
>
> If he did, I would concede that all of his posts have much more weight than
> we took them for.
>
Einstein was right for a while before it was proven, relativity. What abou the
church that hid that the sun was the center of the universe for 200 years?
That's 200 years of false information that a majority believed was tru, and back
then you would have likely believed that too.
I'll let you all in on a little secret.... Gainz winning a world tournament does
not make his statements all of a sudden more right. If I was objective and I
saw this, I'd say that those who did believe him all of a sudden were just
followers who where the type of people who only like the local sports team when
they're winning.
He can be the most skillful SF player in the world and still be wrong on what he
posts.
>
> <snip>
>
> > Also, everything on the NG is oppinion. Rarely is anything for fact. I
>
> Not true... a lot of statements are opinion, but you can't say any of the
> combo talk or techniques mentioned to be opinion. X-Guy's chain->throw is
> not an opinion.
You're right. I shouldn't have been so vague. Saying, refering to Guy, it is
cheap or the best combo he has is opinion.
>
>
> > regularly read soc.history.what-if and it's all about what if this
> > happened. It is very interesting because the intelligence tends to be
> > high and they logically explain how Hitler could have turned Germany
> > into an Isolationist Economic Superpower and What If Rome had totally
> > destroyed Greece. Even those of you who believ that you are right about
> > Parries being too powerful and combos being too strong and throws being
> > cheap. Logic can be bent.
>
> Actually, no it can't. The only thing that can be bent is the semantics of
> the statements used for logic...
Please explain this a bit more. If a semantic is "Of or relating to meaning,
esp. meaning in language" how does it apply?
>
>
> > A) The sky is blue.
> >
> > B) The ocean is blue.
> >
> > C) The Sky is the ocean.
>
> *puts on a pair of glasses and pulls out a chalkboard*
>
> Ok, class. Here's a lesson on elementary logic.
>
> *Begin Lesson*
>
> This isn't right. Logic is like this:
>
> if P then Q.
> if Q then R.
> Therefore, if P then R.
>
> What you said was:
>
> if P then Q
> if R then Q
> P = R.
>
> That's not the same thing. In fact, it's the standard in fallacious
> thinking. I think the correct term is 'Non Sequitur' (It does not follow).
> Understand? If Q means 'this number is divisible by 2', and P = 2, and R =
> 6, you say that since they are both divisible by 2, 2 = 6.
>
> Here's a better example of why logic may not be completely understandeable.
>
> Bread Crumbs are better than nothing
> nothing is better than a good steak dinner
> therefore, bread crumbs are better than a good steak dinner.
>
> The difference here is that it is not logic being bent, but the semantics of
> the word 'nothing'. It means one thing in the first statement and another in
> the second, but the third assumes they are the same.
>
> *End Lesson*
>
Wait. Can you use my Ocean-Sky satement and show me how I would have to phraze
it to be true?
>
> Yes, Logic is always true, but only if you do it right. ^_^
>
> *takes off her glasses and pushes the chalkboard aside*
I don't agree with the ocean-sky statement as you can read below...
>
>
> > Now ONLY using whats given in the above is it true? Yes. I know that the
> > sky is not the ocean (kinda poetic. clouds are the crests of waves. : )
> > ) but if that is all I'm goin on then it is true. There are two pieces
> > of information there, to answer the question as false I must be using my
> > experiences and my knowledge by adding it to the question. You know the
> > old "Can God create a stone so heavy he can not lift it paradox" and the
> > "Can God create a triangle that is a circle."
> >
> > I'm NOT looking for you all t osend or post the answers but on the last
> > on the answer is likely NO and here's why. The definition of a triangle
> > is that it has three sides. The definition of a circle is that it has no
> > sides per se, but is one big, well, circle. For God to create a round
>
> *puts on her glasses again*
>
> *think mathematically for this one... if you don't read it, that's fine too.
> Knowledge of 3-dimensional coordinate systems is also useful*
>
> Actually... the definition of a circle is the plot of all points a certain
> distance from a given point in space in a given plane...
Yes...
> The definition of a
> triangle is the polygon enclosed by 3 given points.
The American Heritage College Dictionary:
Triangle: 1) The plane figure formed by connecting three points not in a
straight line by straight line segments; a three sided polygon.
Plane: 1)A surface containing all the straight lines that connect any two points
on it. 2) A flat or level surface.
> Still, it is possible.
>
> Begin the math stuff...
>
> Suppose that in one plane of view, it's a triangle. Let's make it a right
> triangle. Make this in the XY plane. Then let's say that, instead of the
> vertical leg being a straight line down, it is actually a semicircle in the
> YZ plane. Thus, if you rotate the XY-triangle around the Y-axis 90 degrees,
> you see a circle instead of a triangle. Rotate it again and you see the
> triangle, but no circle. The way you define a triangle is never limited to
> JUST Euclidian geometry... what if you drew a triangle on a sphere? The
> lines wouldn't be straight, they'd be curved.
>
> End the math stuff...
>
> *takes off her glasses*
>
> Oh, by the way... I'm taking a class in computer graphics (hence my head is
> full of 3D matrix calculations and whatnot all the time) and a class in
> Discrete math (logic, probability, etc.). That's why I know this stuff.
> Really! ^_^
>
Nice. I have taken physics and stuff and know about the bending of space and
time and the things in it. Here is the reservation. The two definitions of the
circle and triangle are in a flat 2d plane, otherwise I would say sphere and
tetrahedon (in tetrahedon right? lets say pryamid). So a 3d deal does not
apply. It would if it was included in the definitions.
>
> > triangle, he would have to change our definitions of the word since by
> > our restictive vocabulary it is not possible. But he is God you say.
>
> *sigh* you're not talking about logic now, you're talking about semantics.
Just how much lee-way do you want with the words? Heck, I studied French, Latin
and Ancient Greek in the same semester and then to try to impress a girl by
learning, trying to at least, Hindi. If I took a Greek quiz and put down a Greek
word for lighthouse when the question asked for flower garden, can I get an A by
arguing semantics? If I say "I will kill you." or some thing that totaly
offends you can I argue that it was all "semantics?" Logic uses words witch are
semantic, as your post sugest, and therefore flawed inherently. Let me see if I
can do this.
Logic is described in words.
Words are flawed by semantics.
Therefore, Logic is flawed by semantics.
Does that work?
>
>
> > Yes, but by Human definition a triangle can not be a circle. But he is
> > all Powerful. Yes, but that does not mean a triangle can be a circle
> > unless the definitions we use to destinguish one from the other are
> > changed.
> >
> > Who am I to say what God can and cannot do? Nobody, but either are you.
> > Only God truly knows if he exists and what he can do. All I can do is
> > show what must be overcome for a specific thing to take place. He CAN
> > make a circular triangle by changing our definitions or inventing a new
> > one.
>
> or just do what I mentioned above. ^_^
>
?????????????
>
> > The definition of a weed in a dictionary is "any plant growing where you
> > do not want it to." So my neighbors Roses are weeds and my Foxtails are
> > the talk of the neighborhood.
>
> Depending on your dictionary... which is, once again, a question of
> semantics.
It says that definition in my AHC dictionary. Aren't all dictionaries
relatively, say 99.9% in agreement. If they are NOT, then which ones are
correct? Which one do you use? Doesn't that make the use of a dictionary a bad
one since none are the same?
>
>
> > What if you tried to convince yourself that whatever you disagreed with
> > you then pretend to believe that it is true.
> >
> > Say you read "Throws are cheap."
> >
> > You don't believe it and before you flame the guy you think, "Alright,
> > if throws were cheap, how would I feel? Could I back this up? Is it
> > possible they aren't? Could I think that they are because I'm frustrated
> > that I lose to throwers?"
>
> I thought I was *responding* to the guy who said throws are cheap.
If you mean me I don't think throws are cheap. The "Say...cheap." is an example.
I'm trying to say "Get into their shoes and try to agree with them before you
reply."
>
>
> > Then you calmly, coming form both sides, post that throws could be cheap
> > in certain moments but they generally aren't and that the ways to get
> > out of them are XXX and to practice XXX and that the best ways to avoid
> > being thrown are X,Y and Z.
>
> You have to define 'cheap' before you begin.
Yes "You" define what is cheap. you're the one replying not me. You could think
of what you think cheap is, see where a throw could be cheap, if at all, and
thne go from there.
>
>
> > I know JB and all of you as much as you know me. Give the guy a break.
> > Maybe ,God forbid, he has a bad family life or something.
>
> But that's no reason for us to be OK with his ranting. If someone had a bad
> famnily life and committed a crime, should we look the other way because of
> his childhood?
>
But he commited no crime. This is a NG, not a trial. OK is different from
understanding. All assholes, I'm not saying you JB, that I've met have had
family problems. If it wasn't for this, me knowing that, I would probably be a
lot harder to them, but I feel compasion for them so I cut them some slack.
>
> > No one appointed any of us the NG monitors. Or for that matter the
> > monitors of human nature.
>
> So we are all free to post as we like. Que sera, sera. C'est le vie.
>
Yes, but I think you would agree that to be bothered by something and not do a
long term fix isn't logical..
"JB bothers me. I'll flame him. Though I know from experience will not make him
leave. He might even reply back. I'll do it anyway."
This obviously doesn't help. I didn't write this because everyone on this NG
posts of they're acceptance and understanding and NON-bothermant at JBGains'
posts.
>
<snip> By the way Cammy, how often do you play anyway?
>
> > It's pretty easy to judge from a computer screen huh?
>
> Well, it certainly *does* cut down on the excess information that may or may
> not be relevant. All decisions I make regarding posts I do based on the
> information at hand. Take whatever I say with a grain of salt... I do the
> same with everything else I read.
>
I'll ask you this. Why don't you tell me about me. I won't be upset at anything
you say. Tell me all that you see when you picture me.
I'll start with you. I see a girl who claims to be a scrub and who is going to
school and is intelligent. I see you dressed conservatively and kind of short
with glasses. You like logic and arguing and being right. You are short with
blond hair, don't speak another language fluently and driva a car made within
the last 6 years. You are in shape and have a cute personality. You are a strong
feminist, or want to be. You are stubborn and slightly snobish, making judgement
calls in the back of your mind.
How right am I?
Now let me say one thing, if you fit this then you remind me of my sister, who I
love ane care for so automatically you get some slack if you ever post an
offensive thing. Its a positive image, not a negative one.
>
> --Cammy, the logical, mathematical Scrub
>
> "Studying hard? Hardly Studying!"
> "Get me off what?"
> "O_O;"
>
> http://cammy.grommit.com
You know, when ever I try to go to your website my Communicator (Netscape 4.08)
crashes. Hmm???
So far I have read throught 75 of JBGains most recnt posts to this NG and can
not find evidence of the guy he is said to be. I also read 21 of thr 45 SF2
thread and my oppinion on that is that it wasn't his fault.
Hear is a brief listing..
1) JB Gains says that he hasn't played for a while and wish he knew of the
chains when he was younger.
2) Ultima says that they are not chains, but links.
3) Nothingness says lets leave it alone.
4) JB agrees with Nothingness.
5) OJ corrects the link/chain question.
6) JB says "No shit" and writes a sentence on the subject.
7)OJ writes "snicker" and proceeds to write all this stuff out.
8) JB responds to #7
9) Jin tells OJ not to feed the trolls.
10) OJ apoligizes and talks about scrubs mocking JB.
11) JB says he'll let OJ and Jin flame him implying that they want their
privacy.
12)Jin says, Don't get me started, can you believ this guy OJ.
It goes on from there. The 45 strong thread could have been stopped at #s 3, 4,
5 and so on. OJ and Jin had some good posting fun joking of JB in 9.
Also, in the 75 posts of his he didn't instgate a thing. And whe nhe did say
something that could be considered as questionable he put a smilet face by it
His tone became more agressive the closer it got to April, but ther are a few
things I realized.
A) At ASU I was considered skilled for a while by the people there because I
kept trying to improve and they would say "Damn, he gots skills." Relation to
JB. If people at the arcade he plays at say that about him then so what. He
doesn't have to be god and its true to them. He can say it all he wants. He
never said "I played Valle and he said 'Damn, You should Teach me'" or something
like that.
B) Everyone is allowed to make mistakes. In fact, you should make as many
mistakes as possible while you're young. It's the best time to do it. Because if
you're not trying, you're not living.
Thank You For taking the time to read this again,
Sincerely,
Adrian Ratliff
Cammy White
Adrian Alan Ratliff wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Now the one thing I'll say for JB is that he does NOT have to got to
> EEC4 to prove anything. I don't know the guy and I really don't
> remember any of his pasts post. I tend to weed out any posts without
> interesting subjects. I read maybe half the posts here at most. But
> I'm digressing...
Basically, if someone talks a lot of trash, many times people want them to
be able to back it up, or for them to shut up. It's annoying.
> Do those of you who take a martial art make your master fight in
> tounaments to prove himself? Do those of you in school expect your
> teachers to fly to conventions to hear the latest in that field?
My master got the Gold Medal in the '88 Seoul Olympics in TKD... I think
that's enough proof for me. ^^; My professors *do* attend conventions all
the time... and many times they officiate them. *sigh*
> Probably not. And if JB is a scrub, why do you want him there? To add
> to the winners pot? To humiliate him?
JB (not Gainz) said he was really good. I want to know if he really *is*
good. That would actually lend a little more credibility to what he says.
> I know JB is no master but either are we. What if he is the best on
> this NG and is just weird and excentric in his posts? He could play
If that were true, why would he be posting information that was wrong?
> rarely because he's so good? None of us know for sure, since all of his
> friends are considered him under a different name.
I think you have JB and JB Gainz confused. JB Gainz is the one who said that
SF was dead on the West Coast. JB is the one from New York who doesn't think
tournaments are necessary because he can just play at his local arcade
instead.
> I don't know of when JB has mentioned that he could beat us all or when
> he was the best. As for his tone, I think a lot is being misconstrued.
He said that people walk away from him saying 'that boy has mad skills, I
got lucky by beating him' or 'I'm mad, he beat me'. JB Gainz never said
anything of the sort, he just posted lots of silly misinformation.
> Onaje, you once posted that a lot of people think your tone is arrogance
> but that it is just that you know you are right and want others to know
> also. I. When I first heard of you it was in a post where someone said
> "The only other person who probably believes you is I...@I.com" When I
> first heard this I thought it wa a joke like if I said "the only person
> I believe is M...@me.com"
>
> What I'm getting at is that I don't see why JB is so important, no
> offense JB. He posts and if it is wrong or uninteresting I just mark it
> read and go on to the next. It seems that, from his tone in his posts,
He's not interesting. Both of them are just funny to watch, since they
blindly believe what they keep saying.
> that he is at least acting sorry, but the flames against him keep
> growing. Why are you all so obsessed with proving him wrong? It will
> never happen. He'll be him and you'll be you. Maybe if you became
> friends with him he'd one day change but that's iffy.
We're not obsessed with proving him wrong. After we *prove* him wrong, he
continues the thread...
> Look, If I post "Valle and Choi are suckers. I'm da Best." And follow
> with a body that just rambles incoherently, I could probably get 15
> posts under it before I go away for a while happy that I got so many
> people rilled up. BUT, if I post "How Specifically could I beat Valle
> and Choi" or something to that affect maybe, just maybe 1 of you would
> reply. JB is like Howard Stern. People call and listen to him because
Actually, I think not... If you posted on how to beat Valle and Choi, I'd
read it, and respond with what I thought was either wrong with your
argument, or what I thought could be done to deal with little loopholes you
may not have thought of.
> they DISAGREE with him. They like getting angry (one train of thought.
> Therory I heard a while ago).
>
> Second, if I posted that suckers comment, I'd probably get a lot of
> flames but 3 of you might post why I couldn't beat them, therefore I
> could reverse it to find out how to beat them.
You're assuming an awful lot here...
> It reminds me of the Bad Guy-Good Girl syndrome. The girl wants to feel
> she accomplished something so she dates the bad guy and tries to change
> him. Just let him be and he'll learn his manners.
Nah, if you let him be, he'll end up in jail. I've seen it happen both
ways... just that when the girl tries to change him, she just gets hurt.
> If you all really want him at EEC4 just so you can try and humiliate him
> for all his annoying posts, take up a collection. But... imagine if he
> got first place.
If he did, I would concede that all of his posts have much more weight than
we took them for.
> Don't say it can't happen, just imagine. The day after he'd be on the NG
> bragging "Who's the man?" and "Now you should all listen to me now huh?"
> Or maybe he won't be because we all expect that and if he isn't we'll
> feel stupid. But there will be post after post from people about how he
> was lucky and stuff. He won't win either way. Neither will we.
There is no real 'lucky' in a tournament... But I see your point.
> Why not everytime you read a post that makes you angry take a walk or 10
> deep breathes or consider the consequences of a retaliation post? What
> about assigning one of us to handle all bad and annoying posts. I'm
> serious. Say Onaje. We could elect him, or someone else as monitor. If
> someone posts something we don't like we all e-mail Onaje with what we
> don't like about it. Then he takes all of it and on the beginning of the
> second day, so everyone has had a chance to read it and respond he posts
> under it the sentiments of all of us in a diplomatic way that describes
> the weakness of the argument and then the correction to it. That way we
> all get to say what we feel and the the bandwith drops. But we only do
> this for posts that annoy us, ETA and Name posts would be normal if they
> don't annoy. Also, if Onaje missed something, we could send to him
> again and then when he feels he has all the requests for an addendum, he
> posts one LAST time. Voila, everything is satisfied. We could even post
> a FAQ that says the above everyweek on the NG.
This would work if this newsgroup were, say, moderated like
rec.arts.anime.creative... but it's not. The only thing it *would* do would
create a lot of headache for whoever we elected to do the job.
> Also, everything on the NG is oppinion. Rarely is anything for fact. I
Not true... a lot of statements are opinion, but you can't say any of the
combo talk or techniques mentioned to be opinion. X-Guy's chain->throw is
not an opinion.
> regularly read soc.history.what-if and it's all about what if this
> happened. It is very interesting because the intelligence tends to be
> high and they logically explain how Hitler could have turned Germany
> into an Isolationist Economic Superpower and What If Rome had totally
> destroyed Greece. Even those of you who believ that you are right about
> Parries being too powerful and combos being too strong and throws being
> cheap. Logic can be bent.
Actually, no it can't. The only thing that can be bent is the semantics of
the statements used for logic...
> A) The sky is blue.
>
> B) The ocean is blue.
>
> C) The Sky is the ocean.
*puts on a pair of glasses and pulls out a chalkboard*
Ok, class. Here's a lesson on elementary logic.
*Begin Lesson*
This isn't right. Logic is like this:
if P then Q.
if Q then R.
Therefore, if P then R.
What you said was:
if P then Q
if R then Q
P = R.
That's not the same thing. In fact, it's the standard in fallacious
thinking. I think the correct term is 'Non Sequitur' (It does not follow).
Understand? If Q means 'this number is divisible by 2', and P = 2, and R =
6, you say that since they are both divisible by 2, 2 = 6.
Here's a better example of why logic may not be completely understandeable.
Bread Crumbs are better than nothing
nothing is better than a good steak dinner
therefore, bread crumbs are better than a good steak dinner.
The difference here is that it is not logic being bent, but the semantics of
the word 'nothing'. It means one thing in the first statement and another in
the second, but the third assumes they are the same.
*End Lesson*
Yes, Logic is always true, but only if you do it right. ^_^
*takes off her glasses and pushes the chalkboard aside*
> Now ONLY using whats given in the above is it true? Yes. I know that the
> sky is not the ocean (kinda poetic. clouds are the crests of waves. : )
> ) but if that is all I'm goin on then it is true. There are two pieces
> of information there, to answer the question as false I must be using my
> experiences and my knowledge by adding it to the question. You know the
> old "Can God create a stone so heavy he can not lift it paradox" and the
> "Can God create a triangle that is a circle."
>
> I'm NOT looking for you all t osend or post the answers but on the last
> on the answer is likely NO and here's why. The definition of a triangle
> is that it has three sides. The definition of a circle is that it has no
> sides per se, but is one big, well, circle. For God to create a round
*puts on her glasses again*
*think mathematically for this one... if you don't read it, that's fine too.
Knowledge of 3-dimensional coordinate systems is also useful*
Actually... the definition of a circle is the plot of all points a certain
distance from a given point in space in a given plane... The definition of a
triangle is the polygon enclosed by 3 given points. Still, it is possible.
Begin the math stuff...
Suppose that in one plane of view, it's a triangle. Let's make it a right
triangle. Make this in the XY plane. Then let's say that, instead of the
vertical leg being a straight line down, it is actually a semicircle in the
YZ plane. Thus, if you rotate the XY-triangle around the Y-axis 90 degrees,
you see a circle instead of a triangle. Rotate it again and you see the
triangle, but no circle. The way you define a triangle is never limited to
JUST Euclidian geometry... what if you drew a triangle on a sphere? The
lines wouldn't be straight, they'd be curved.
End the math stuff...
*takes off her glasses*
Oh, by the way... I'm taking a class in computer graphics (hence my head is
full of 3D matrix calculations and whatnot all the time) and a class in
Discrete math (logic, probability, etc.). That's why I know this stuff.
Really! ^_^
> triangle, he would have to change our definitions of the word since by
> our restictive vocabulary it is not possible. But he is God you say.
*sigh* you're not talking about logic now, you're talking about semantics.
> Yes, but by Human definition a triangle can not be a circle. But he is
> all Powerful. Yes, but that does not mean a triangle can be a circle
> unless the definitions we use to destinguish one from the other are
> changed.
>
> Who am I to say what God can and cannot do? Nobody, but either are you.
> Only God truly knows if he exists and what he can do. All I can do is
> show what must be overcome for a specific thing to take place. He CAN
> make a circular triangle by changing our definitions or inventing a new
> one.
or just do what I mentioned above. ^_^
> The definition of a weed in a dictionary is "any plant growing where you
> do not want it to." So my neighbors Roses are weeds and my Foxtails are
> the talk of the neighborhood.
Depending on your dictionary... which is, once again, a question of
semantics.
> What if you tried to convince yourself that whatever you disagreed with
> you then pretend to believe that it is true.
>
> Say you read "Throws are cheap."
>
> You don't believe it and before you flame the guy you think, "Alright,
> if throws were cheap, how would I feel? Could I back this up? Is it
> possible they aren't? Could I think that they are because I'm frustrated
> that I lose to throwers?"
I thought I was *responding* to the guy who said throws are cheap.
> Then you calmly, coming form both sides, post that throws could be cheap
> in certain moments but they generally aren't and that the ways to get
> out of them are XXX and to practice XXX and that the best ways to avoid
> being thrown are X,Y and Z.
You have to define 'cheap' before you begin.
> I know JB and all of you as much as you know me. Give the guy a break.
> Maybe ,God forbid, he has a bad family life or something.
But that's no reason for us to be OK with his ranting. If someone had a bad
famnily life and committed a crime, should we look the other way because of
his childhood?
> No one appointed any of us the NG monitors. Or for that matter the
> monitors of human nature.
So we are all free to post as we like. Que sera, sera. C'est le vie.
> The time spent doing some good for the NG or ourselves is given to
> trivial little things that eat up parts of our life. You won't be on
> your death bed wishing you had responded to one of JBs posts.
Actually, I could care less if he never posted again.. Maybe then we could
get some real info here. Still, what really happens is that we're all bored
because SF3:3s is not yet here, and we're all tired of talking about SFZ3,
so we are picking on the trolls. Once 3s arrives, I think the NG will become
more discussion-based and less flame-based. I guess it's just how things
cycle... if there's nothing to talk about, we *invent* stuff to talk about.
> It's pretty easy to judge from a computer screen huh?
Well, it certainly *does* cut down on the excess information that may or may
not be relevant. All decisions I make regarding posts I do based on the
information at hand. Take whatever I say with a grain of salt... I do the
same with everything else I read.
--Cammy, the logical, mathematical Scrub
Shaun Patrick Mcisaac
Adrian Alan Ratliff <da...@uswest.net> wrote:
>Hi,
>Now the one thing I'll say for JB is that he does NOT have to got to
>EEC4 to prove anything. I don't know the guy and I really don't
>remember any of his pasts post.
Then shut up.
>Do those of you who take a martial art make your master fight in
>tounaments to prove himself? Do those of you in school expect your
>teachers to fly to conventions to hear the latest in that field?
>Probably not. And if JB is a scrub, why do you want him there? To add
>to the winners pot? To humiliate him?
Martial arts: n/a
Professors: Yes. Hell yes. Publish or perish, no?
Winners pot: Yes.
Humiliation: If it will cut down the crap here.
>I know JB is no master but either are we.
BULLCRAP, we aren't. Some of us are some are not.
> What if he is the best on
>this NG and is just weird and excentric in his posts?
Also stupid shite. Dhalsim is worst in SF2, smoke on.
>with a body that just rambles incoherently, I could probably get 15
>posts under it before I go away for a while happy that I got so many
>people rilled up. BUT, if I post "How Specifically could I beat Valle
>and Choi" or something to that affect maybe, just maybe 1 of you would
>reply.
If you had a body for that subject, you'd get about 50 replies.
>If you all really want him at EEC4 just so you can try and humiliate him
>for all his annoying posts, take up a collection. But... imagine if he
>got first place.
If JB gets first place, I'll eat the computer I'm using to type
this.
>Also, everything on the NG is oppinion.
Here's an opinion for you: you're an ignorant ####, aren't you?
Tech posts have little to do with opinion... this move does this
to that strategy. TCBR (tom cannon beta report)'s aren't opinion. Combos
aren't opinion. Tourney posts aren't opinion.
<ZONK page after page of stupid shite>
Go away.
--
SPM...
PINE 3.95 SIGNATURE EDITOR Folder: INBOX 0 Messages
^G Get Help ^X Exit ^R Read File ^Y Prev Pg ^K Cut Text ^A BBIW
^C Cancel ^J Justify ^W Where is ^V Next Pg ^U UnCut Text^T To Spell
Ankoku Kishi
If nothing else, this is one of the most thought-out commentaries to
this NG. One thing to remember: this NG is ruled by mob mentality. You
either follow the crowd or get labeled a troll/scub. c'est la vie.
Kazumi Jin
remember any of his pasts post. I tend to weed out any posts without
interesting subjects. I read maybe half the posts here at most. But
I'm digressing...>>
Then you wouldnt know some of the ridulous stuff that this guy has been
posting. Ill admit it right now.....I was the first (that I know of) to BLOW
UP on him. I saw many of his posts prior to his response on my "SFEX
Infinites" thread, of which he proved nothing of worth to me. When he
discussed why SFEX had no infinites, well.....look at the thread, youll see his
response. That response just infuriated me. I was expecting some comments,
maybe some additional combos, or more valueable info, not that garbage...which
later turned into the technical definition of "infinites". His response was
blatantly wrong. Which lead to my harsh rebuttal. My definition of infinites
and 100% combos were kind of clashed at that time....but through further
discussion with "Intelligent" people, we were able to make things more clear.
That, to me is what this NG is about. Besides pointing out new information, we
should make things clear to each other. This is a forum for everyone to
discuss their opinions. Facts are present on this NG as well. Take them as
you will, but when you argue and lose.....as I once did with Onaje a long long
time ago bout the seriousness of CC's, you must admit that you are
wrong....not come up with lame stuff like..."i dont care about SF, Im more
interested with women" or something. That is worthless stuff that doesnt
belong on this NG. You are free to believe what you want. But disagreeing
with the majority without intelligent backup is wrong. I would love to see
someones "intelligent" take on why SF sucks, or why whatever. Anything to give
me a new view on what I already know is valueable.
Im personally done with Mr. gainz, In my so called "Flame-Wars" with him, ive
simply asked him to back his argument with fact, with some additional, if not,
unecessary, verbage. Of all of my responses, no Intelligent responses have
beed made or even attempted...Just worthless insults. That tells me that this
is a person to which no progress will be made. Like someone once referred to a
Jerry Springer episode.....Biaatch, no yous a biaatch, yeah well i slept with
yo Daddy....back and forth. If you had read most of his *comical* posts you
would know that he stands no chance in hell in placing first or anywhere near
top 10 (depending how many people are there).
Ultima
[a whole lot of crap OMNISLASHed]
> If nothing else, this is one of the most thought-out commentaries to
> this NG.
Too bad it's wasted on a fool like Gainz.
> One thing to remember: this NG is ruled by mob mentality. You
> either follow the crowd or get labeled a troll/scub. c'est la vie.
If it were blind, ignorant mob mentality, that would be one thing. But
it's not. These are not a witch-hunt type mob. The so-called "mob
mentality" of this newsgroup - i.e., the general opinion (which is
shared by most, though not always all the main posters) is based on
experience, fact and logic, not ignorance and stupidity. The claim that
"CCs make A2 garbage" is not based on hearsay, or even one person's
opinion, but on hours of play time that prove it thus. Anything that the
"mob" claims can be supported with evidence and backed up with actual
play. Compare this to statements made by Gainz, which are proven wrong
time and time and TIME again (not just in regards to gameplay, but in
general - see his Scorpion/Spiderman comparison).
One doesn't necessarily have to follow the crowd, as long as one knows
the issues on both sides. Take me for example: I personally happen to
dislike tick throws and I think that the damage done by throws in SF2
was too high. This is not, to my knowledge, in keeping with the general
opinion of the group (of course, some will be adamant and label be a
scrub anyway regardless of my opinion, but they can all foxtrot oscar).
Some people here actually like SF3 and don't mind the power of the
parries. Difference of opinion is okay. Stupidity and ignorance (which
is all that Gainz has shown) is not. It's not what you say, it's how you
say it...
--
Ultima - Wonders why his killfile isn't working...
http://members.xoom.com/Ultima1 - The Street Fighter RPG Manifesto!
http://members.xoom.com/ShinUltima - U's Ultimate Rambling Page
If an arcade doesn't have a version of SF or SS in it, then it's not an
arcade
Ankoku Kishi
> Take me for example: I personally happen to
>dislike tick throws and I think that the damage done by throws in SF2
>was too high. This is not, to my knowledge, in keeping with the general
>opinion of the group (of course, some will be adamant and label be a
>scrub anyway regardless of my opinion, but they can all foxtrot oscar
That was all I was trying to say. It seems if I were to say I *gasp*
like the VS series (which I do), All the replies would be "you're a
scrub, blah blah blah". I just get sick of some new person who wanders
in and has a different opinion on throws/CC's/whatever and a lot of
people bring out the napalm.
Ultima, I've always respected your opinion, and I appreciate you
being civil (not to say you usually aren't)
Shaun Patrick Mcisaac
Ankoku Kishi <kish...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 00:09:21 -0400, Ultima <jas...@rit.edu> wrote:
>> Take me for example: I personally happen to
>>dislike tick throws and I think that the damage done by throws in SF2
>>was too high. This is not, to my knowledge, in keeping with the general
>>opinion of the group (of course, some will be adamant and label be a
>>scrub anyway regardless of my opinion, but they can all foxtrot oscar
>That was all I was trying to say. It seems if I were to say I *gasp*
>like the VS series (which I do), All the replies would be "you're a
Enjoying VS is one thing. Telling us how incredibly skillful
jab-strong-fierce is is another.
>scrub, blah blah blah". I just get sick of some new person who wanders
>in and has a different opinion on throws/CC's/whatever and a lot of
Again, you don't understand why ppl get angry when ppl post on
CCs. Saying 'I like A2' or 'CCs are cool' is a far cry from 'CCs are
garbage, they do no damage.'
JB Gainz
Just because I say Spider-man's character was probably influenced by Scorpion
of MK it is nothing I see to get pissed about.
Because I say Dhalsim is the worst SF2WW character... should I be gang flamed?
In reality the only offensive things I have said were in responses to trolls.
I would sayI am sorry for the things I have said in response to the trolls, but
I am not, because I know the trollers don't care.
If you don't like what I say people.. here is an idea.. ignore it. Or even
better tell me what you think.. without disclaiming what I say. I will not
make fun of people because of what they think...
.. if you think Dhalsim is the best SF2 character.. good for you.. I disagree,
but that is my opinion and it does not matter in respect to you.
sigh.. this thing is going on forever.
JB GAINZ
JB Gainz
>and 100% combos were kind of clashed at that time....but through further
>discussion with "Intelligent" people, we were able to make things more clear.
You had the wrong definition... I explained what the difference.. that was not
my intention. I felt it was useless to explain after 5 other people already
did. I did not even troll you for not knowing.. I just said they are not the
same.
>should make things clear to each other. This is a forum for everyone to
>discuss their opinions. Facts are present on this NG as well. Take them as
>you will, but when you argue and lose.....as I once did with Onaje a long
>long
>time ago bout the seriousness of CC's, you must admit that you are
>wrong....not come up with lame stuff like..."i dont care about SF, Im more
>interested with women" or something. That is worthless stuff that doesnt
>belong on this NG. You are free to believe what you want. But disagreeing
>with the majority without intelligent backup is wrong. I would love to see
>someones "intelligent" take on why SF sucks, or why whatever. Anything to
>give
>me a new view on what I already know is valueable.
>
>Im personally done with Mr. gainz,
Thanks GOD... you were really bugging me.
In my so called "Flame-Wars" with him, ive
>simply asked him to back his argument with fact, with some additional, if
Ah... your flame war started with you saying "Leave this fucking NG you troll"
"you only asked me back my facts on the Dhalsim arguement.. I did not respond
to you because you trolled with every post.. nothing simple about it. Are you
serious about this post you just made, because you and I both know the truth
behind your posts to me... they were flames pure and simple.
YOu talk of me sending worthless insults.. what about yourself.... I stopped
posting to you after the infinity deal.... I really don't you because you
continued to post trolls to me. Even after I constantly ignored you... you
continued.. why?
If you had read most of his *comical* posts you
>would know that he stands no chance in hell in placing first or anywhere near
>top 10 (depending how many people are there).
Many of my posts were made to be funny. Unfortunately some people are too
dense to see the humor. I don't plan on coming in first on a video game
contest... sorry to disappoint you but video games are about the bottom of my
list of things to do. I play them for fun... some people forget this aspect
and take things too far.
JB GAINZ
Ankoku Kishi
Patrick Mcisaac) wrote:
> Again, you don't understand why ppl get angry when ppl post on
>CCs. Saying 'I like A2' or 'CCs are cool' is a far cry from 'CCs are
>garbage, they do no damage.'
I understand perfectly. What I don't understand is why when some
people see "I think throws are cheap", a blatant opinion, and we get
threads like "THROWS ARE NOT CHEAP" or "So-and-so is a scrub". That's
all. A lot of the crap that is fought over is opinion, at least that
is what I've seen.
Chocobo
> Well, I don't mean to make people angry by what I think..
>
> Just because I say Spider-man's character was probably influenced by Scorpion
> of MK it is nothing I see to get pissed about.
>
> Because I say Dhalsim is the worst SF2WW character... should I be gang flamed?
If that was all that you said, you would at least be corrected by one or two
people. However, you had a very arrogant attitude, and acted like "I can't believe
this, everyone knows Dhalsim is crap".
>
> In reality the only offensive things I have said were in responses to trolls.
> I would sayI am sorry for the things I have said in response to the trolls, but
> I am not, because I know the trollers don't care.
>
> If you don't like what I say people.. here is an idea.. ignore it. Or even
> better tell me what you think.. without disclaiming what I say. I will not
> make fun of people because of what they think...
Here's an idea... don't post it. If you have to spew some BS, send it in private
email. Since last Tuesday at 12:40 AM you have posted 39 messages to this
newsgroup. NOT ONE was SF-related.
>
> .. if you think Dhalsim is the best SF2 character.. good for you.. I disagree,
> but that is my opinion and it does not matter in respect to you.
>
> sigh.. this thing is going on forever.
Whether a character is good or not has nothing to do with opinion. V-Akuma IS the
best character in Alpha 3, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. That is a fact.
Ultima
Simple: Usually the person who claims "I think throws are cheap" doesn't
have any real reasons for claiming that. When pressed for reasons, if
they actually give any, his/her evidence usually amounts into little
more than "I don't know how to counter them. Therefore they are cheap."
This is why replies of "Throws are NOT cheap" (usually followed by
supporting evidence) are followed by "So and so is a scrub", because
that person showed that he or she doesn't know how to counter something
that is counterable.
Of course, this doesn't apply to stuff that is truly uncounterable (i.e.
stuff like WW Guile's glitches), but that is extremely rare. In general,
"cheap" is a word that's used way too frivolously. As in the above
example, "cheap" is usually synonymous with "I don't know how to deal
with [insert tactic here]". When a person is shown overwhelming evidence
that points to the contrary of his/her opinion, and refuses to
acknowledge said evidence, that person is indeed a scrub and a fool as
well (see Gainz, JB).
Some opinions are simply that - opinion. Purely subjective. There's no
problem with that. There are a lot of opinions that have factual basis
though, and those WILL be argued on. No one is going to argue with you
for a statement like "I like VS. games". However, if you claim something
like "Vs. games rock with skill", then prepare to get blasted.
In short, whatever you say, make sure you have a /real/ reason for
claiming it. If you don't have a real reason, either don't say it, or
expect to get shot down for it.
--
Ultima - The Right Arm of Scrub Voltron
Ultima
> JB Gainz wrote:
> > Well, I don't mean to make people angry by what I think..
> >
> > Just because I say Spider-man's character was probably influenced by Scorpion of MK it is nothing I see to get pissed about.
> > Because I say Dhalsim is the worst SF2WW character... should I be gang flamed?
> If that was all that you said, you would at least be corrected by one or two people. However, you had a very arrogant attitude, and acted like "I can't believe this, everyone knows Dhalsim is crap".
Not only that, but he STILL claims this garbage even AFTER he has been
corrected again and again and again and AGAIN!
[crap SLASHed]
> > .. if you think Dhalsim is the best SF2 character.. good for you.. I disagree, but that is my opinion and it does not matter in respect to you.
> Whether a character is good or not has nothing to do with opinion. V-Akuma IS the best character in Alpha 3, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. That is a fact.
Now this I contest. Suppose Daigo were to come out and now with an
awesome V-Birdie and beat the shit out of everybody (unlikely I know,
but for the sake of argument). Would you still claim that V-Akuma is the
best? Wasn't everybody claiming X-Dhalsim to be king not long back (not
to mention Jeff Schafer's "Characters Alex Valle's beating me with this
week" rankings before them)? Face it, character rankings, gross
applications aside (like Akuma in ST and A2's Big Four), are on on-going
process, seldom remaining static. Isn't Blanka considered really weak in
ST, yet J.Beasley's report from Japan mentioned a killer Blanka player?
Didn't we have a huge thread war on the rankings of MvC? So when it
comes to rankings, it *does* matter what someone thinks (especially if
it's a player with some import and reputation - hence Jeff Schafer and
his Valle rankings). You're not going to convince that killer Blanka
player that Blanka sucks in ST. It's only gross applications that cannot
be contested. This would include (among others) Guile and Dhalsim in WW,
who beat everybody else, hands down.
Mark Zedaker
> > > .. if you think Dhalsim is the best SF2 character.. good for you.. I
disagree, but that is my opinion and it does not matter in respect to you.
>
> > Whether a character is good or not has nothing to do with opinion.
V-Akuma IS the best character in Alpha 3, it doesn't matter what anyone
thinks. That is a fact.
>
> Now this I contest. Suppose Daigo were to come out and now with an
> awesome V-Birdie and beat the shit out of everybody (unlikely I know,
> but for the sake of argument).
Daigo coming over and destroying people with Birdie isn't really
relevant here -- to quote the long-lost but not forgotten Ken Tanaka:
"What would this prove? I'm sure a 10th level master in Tazmanian butt
slapping could kick my ass, but that doesn't mean that butt slapping is a
legitimate martial art."
Now, hypothetically, if John Choi were to beat Alex Valle (two
eaqually skilled -- or nearly so -- players, for the sake of argument) in
a tournament using Birdie, *then* you'd have an argument for notching
Birdie up in the ranks. Daigo walking all over everyone is just Daigo
walking all over everyone :p
--
Mark Zedaker
ch...@home.com
Jinston
Adrian Alan Ratliff <da...@uswest.net> wrote in message
news:37105A5A...@uswest.net...
<SNIP>
> JB is like Howard Stern. People call and listen to him because
> they DISAGREE with him. They like getting angry (one train of thought.
> Therory I heard a while ago).
1st off... SHUT UP! How dare you compare JB Gainz to Howard Stern!?! Have
you listened to a show? Watched the movie? Sure he's an asshole, but he's
an asshole that speaks his mind and the truth. He doesn't mold his opinion
to disagree with people and MAKE controversy, he just says and does what he
wants and that goes against the "norm" and THAT'S what pisses people off.
That and his fight against censorship. He doesn't say Rosie o' Donnel
(however you spell her name) is a fat pig to get her mad, he says it 'cause
it's TRUE! For god sakes! She stuffs her mouth every show and constantly
talks of food. And people don't call JUST to disagree with him. Sometimes
they call to disagree with the guest, or another caller, or to praise Howard
or the Guest or the crew. Sometimes they call 'cause they're high as hell
and have nothing to do! (Andy Dick) LOL!!! Anyone who listens is laughing
like mad now.
<SNIP>
> Sincerely and with all Due Respect,
>
> Adrian Ratliff
Bastard! Picking on Howard! For SHAME! He's an idiot, but not one as low
as JB Gainz!!!
--
Jinston
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LEGAL NOTICE: Anyone sending unsolicited commercial email to this
address will be charged a $1500 proofreading fee. This is an official
notification. Failure to abide by this will result in legal action as
per the following:By US CODE Title 47,sec.227(a)(2)(b), a
computer/modem/printer meets the definition of a telephone fax machine.
BY SEC 227 (b)(1)(c)it is unlawful for anyone to send any unsolicited
ads to such equipment. BY SEC 227 (b)(3)(c)a violation of the
a fore mentioned Sec. is punishable by action to recover actual monetary
loss, or $1500, which ever is greater.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jinston
Cammy White <ca...@grommit.com> wrote in message
news:371144AA...@grommit.com...
<SNIP>
> > Do those of you who take a martial art make your master fight in
> > tounaments to prove himself? Do those of you in school expect your
> > teachers to fly to conventions to hear the latest in that field?
>
> My master got the Gold Medal in the '88 Seoul Olympics in TKD... I think
> that's enough proof for me. ^^; My professors *do* attend conventions all
> the time... and many times they officiate them. *sigh*
Umm.... NO! TKD is NOT an Olympic Medal event and won't be until Sydney!
TKD became a demonstration sport in 88. I don't recall if they gave out
medals, but if they did, they don't count as Olympic medals.
Jinston
JB Gainz <jbg...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990412005837...@ng115.aol.com...
> Well, I don't mean to make people angry by what I think..
>
> Just because I say Spider-man's character was probably influenced by
Scorpion
> of MK it is nothing I see to get pissed about.
I don't recall you saying this, but... WHAT THE HELL! Do you have any clue
how old Spider-Man is? He's like 30+ years old or something! How the hell
could he be influenced by Scorpion of MK? If you're talking about how his
moves etc. are in Marvel games, you're still insane! All his moves are
based on the comic w/ exceptions to those ridiculous supers.
>
> Because I say Dhalsim is the worst SF2WW character... should I be gang
flamed?
Yes! It's a VERY stupid comment. A conclusion come to by lack of logic.
Meaning, you're an idiot!
>
> In reality the only offensive things I have said were in responses to
trolls.
> I would sayI am sorry for the things I have said in response to the
trolls, but
> I am not, because I know the trollers don't care.
Can't recall, but I most definitely won't take your word on it.
>
> If you don't like what I say people.. here is an idea.. ignore it. Or
even
> better tell me what you think.. without disclaiming what I say. I will
not
> make fun of people because of what they think...
How can we not tell you what we think w/o disclaiming your opinions?
They're all wrong! (Parries, Spidey, Dhalsim, etc.)
>
> .. if you think Dhalsim is the best SF2 character.. good for you.. I
disagree,
> but that is my opinion and it does not matter in respect to you.
Hey numb-skull! Read the freakin' replies to your idiotic comment! 2nd
BEST! 2nd BEST!!! For the last time! 2nd BEST! No has one called him the
best in a while.
>
> sigh.. this thing is going on forever.
'Cause you keep whining!
>
> JB GAINZ
Jinston
news:3711990F...@mindspring.com...
<SNIP>
> Whether a character is good or not has nothing to do with opinion. V-Akuma
IS the
> best character in Alpha 3, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. That is a
fact.
>
can't say any character is the best in A3 until further exploration of the
game. We're still finding out VCs and other things of the game play. Look
at KM's post on moves that flash red, take damage, but continue.
Jinston
Mark Zedaker <ch...@home.com> wrote in message
news:chuji-12049...@cx45150-a.dt1.sdca.home.com...
<SNIP>
> Daigo coming over and destroying people with Birdie isn't really
> relevant here -- to quote the long-lost but not forgotten Ken Tanaka:
>
> "What would this prove? I'm sure a 10th level master in Tazmanian butt
> slapping could kick my ass, but that doesn't mean that butt slapping is a
> legitimate martial art."
I gotta ask! = ) Is Tazmanian Butt-Slapping a REAL Martial-Art? Something
made by Aboriginals perhaps?
>
> Now, hypothetically, if John Choi were to beat Alex Valle (two
> eaqually skilled -- or nearly so -- players, for the sake of argument) in
> a tournament using Birdie, *then* you'd have an argument for notching
> Birdie up in the ranks. Daigo walking all over everyone is just Daigo
> walking all over everyone :p
>
> --
> Mark Zedaker
> ch...@home.com
--
robo...@my-dejanews.com
"Jinston" <1JJC...@MtSAC.Edu> wrote:
>
> Cammy White <ca...@grommit.com> wrote in message
> news:371144AA...@grommit.com...
> <SNIP>
> > > tounaments to prove himself? Do those of you in school expect your
> > > teachers to fly to conventions to hear the latest in that field?
> >
> > My master got the Gold Medal in the '88 Seoul Olympics in TKD... I think
> > that's enough proof for me. ^^; My professors *do* attend conventions all
> > the time... and many times they officiate them. *sigh*
I must agree. All my professors are required to go to seminars and speaking
events. They're encouraged to keep abreast w/current developments in the
law. Maybe this statement doesn't apply to grade school, but you don't get a
job w/out at least going to high school. I also wouldn't have taken TKD if
my kayjanim (sp?) wasn't a former National Korean Champion. Why study under
anyone if they have no credentials to back them up? It's not worth the risk
of time or money.
> Umm.... NO! TKD is NOT an Olympic Medal event and won't be until Sydney!
> TKD became a demonstration sport in 88. I don't recall if they gave out
> medals, but if they did, they don't count as Olympic medals.
Exhibition events still get medals; see e.g. Beach Volleyball, Mountain
Biking, and TKD. Exhibition events are also scored in the medal tallies.
The quality that makes them "exhibition" is that they are there only for that
olympics. As I recall, of the 3 gold medals that the US won, Herbert Perez
won a gold medal and he was getting screwed by the judges. He had to knock
the guy out practically to win.
Dale
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Cammy White
> Cammy White <ca...@grommit.com> wrote in message
> news:371144AA...@grommit.com...
> <SNIP>
> > My master got the Gold Medal in the '88 Seoul Olympics in TKD... I think
> > that's enough proof for me. ^^; My professors *do* attend conventions all
> > the time... and many times they officiate them. *sigh*
>
> Umm.... NO! TKD is NOT an Olympic Medal event and won't be until Sydney!
> TKD became a demonstration sport in 88. I don't recall if they gave out
> medals, but if they did, they don't count as Olympic medals.
Well... if he was good enough to even demonstrate at the olympics, I think that
counts for something. My master's Bong Kwon Park... the guy who's been on the
Korean National Team a bunch of times, won a bunch of championships, etc... The
point is that I know he knows what he's doing... Go ahead and look him up if
you like.
--Cammy, the Tae Kwon Do-ing Scrub
robo...@my-dejanews.com
kish...@hotmail.com (Ankoku Kishi) wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 04:34:41 GMT, spmc...@midway.uchicago.edu (Shaun
> Patrick Mcisaac) wrote:
>
> > Again, you don't understand why ppl get angry when ppl post on
> >CCs. Saying 'I like A2' or 'CCs are cool' is a far cry from 'CCs are
> >garbage, they do no damage.'
> I understand perfectly. What I don't understand is why when some
> people see "I think throws are cheap", a blatant opinion, and we get
> threads like "THROWS ARE NOT CHEAP" or "So-and-so is a scrub". That's
> all. A lot of the crap that is fought over is opinion, at least that
> is what I've seen.
Though this has been discussed to death (though people still flame for it),
throws are in no way cheap. I'll try not to discuss it, but though people
may think that throws are cheap, the reason that they are rightly flamed for
their statements is b/c their thoughts on the subject can be disproved.
After discussing what exactly "cheap" is, we find that we cannot use their
definition. For ex. some some people's def of definition would include the
fb-trap, (and I know there are people out there who still think that the
fb-trap is cheap.) When properly thought out, these people complain b/c they
can't throw; or, they rather combo b/c combos look cooler than throws (a true
opinion). Inevitably, a true opinion incorporates some emotion (either
reflexive or internal). Saying throws are cool is an opinion b/c throws
instill a nice emotion to the person executing the throw. I guess the same
can be said about saying "throws are cheap" (b/c they instill a bad emotion).
But then, the more apt thing is to say that "I don't like throws" which is a
better showing of opinion.
Onaje Everett
things to learn...and I'm going to show them to you. I can talk 'cause I used
to think like this.
In article <37105A5A...@uswest.net>,
Adrian Alan Ratliff <da...@uswest.net> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Now the one thing I'll say for JB is that he does NOT have to got to
> EEC4 to prove anything. I don't know the guy and I really don't
> remember any of his pasts post. I tend to weed out any posts without
> interesting subjects. I read maybe half the posts here at most. But
> I'm digressing...
Well...let's look at this digression, though.
The facts are that JB posts a lot of stuff that can't be backed up with
facts, while claiming that he's so good that you'll think you were "lucky"
when you beat him. Now, I'm sorry to say this, but 9 times out of 10, if you
can't even back up your statements with facts, you don't know the game well
enough to beat the people that can back up their statements with facts.
Furthermore, a victory against you will hardly be decided by a fluke
accident...more like that person will be overwhelmed by the skill of the
person that knows the game.
> Do those of you who take a martial art make your master fight in
> tounaments to prove himself?
The reason why a master is a master is because he HAS proven himself. If you
do nothing but train and never get challenged, you don't really know where
you stand. Think about this (and I'm sorry that I have to bring my life into
this, but oh well...). If I say that I believe in God and that I'll serve
him "in and out of season" (that means through the good times AND the bad
times), but that statement never gets challenged, how does God TRULY know
where I stand? True, God knows everything, but I know that the reason why
God has me go through things is to show ME where I'm at in my faith.
You cannot find out how much gold is in something until you burn the dross
off.
The same is true with this situation. JB THINKS he knows where he stands in
the world of Street Fighter. JB THINKS he knows what he's talking about.
But...what do the facts say? Again, it comes down to the facts. I thought I
was the bomb when I first understood exactly how combos work. I thought that
everyone I played would fall to my deadly and creative combos. I went to my
first tournament and got smashed because I had forgotten that everyone
doesn't play like me. JB hasn't truly tested himself to say anything about
his ability and he CERTAINLY hasn't posted anything that would suggest that
he knows what he's talking about when it comes to SF.
Actually...back up. He's contributed a few things....just not enough to make
me think that he has the right to say that he's being flamed left and right
because "his opinion is different". It's not his opinion that we don't like.
It's his arrogance in not accepting correction.
> Do those of you in school expect your
> teachers to fly to conventions to hear the latest in that field?
> Probably not. And if JB is a scrub, why do you want him there? To add
> to the winners pot? To humiliate him?
We want him there for one simple reason: We want him to put up...or shut up.
Blunt, ain't it? Well...the truth can be that way.
> I know JB is no master but either are we. What if he is the best on
> this NG and is just weird and excentric in his posts? He could play
> rarely because he's so good? None of us know for sure, since all of his
> friends are considered him under a different name.
None of us know for certain, but the facts can speak volumes of one's skill.
JB hardly even uses the facts, so we know that he's often just throwing stuff
out there.
> I don't know of when JB has mentioned that he could beat us all or when
> he was the best. As for his tone, I think a lot is being misconstrued.
I don't think so.
> Onaje, you once posted that a lot of people think your tone is arrogance
> but that it is just that you know you are right and want others to know
> also.
Well...yeah! :)
However, you have to also understand that a lot of people project their own
motives into what I say, just because I am confident in myself (look at my
signature again). I'm so glad I know a Psych grad. :)
> When I first heard of you it was in a post where someone said
> "The only other person who probably believes you is I...@I.com" When I
> first heard this I thought it wa a joke like if I said "the only person
> I believe is M...@me.com"
That would've been funny, too! Darn you, I...@I.com!!! :) Ya hadda go and pick
a perfectly good e-mail address!!! :)
> What I'm getting at is that I don't see why JB is so important, no
> offense JB. He posts and if it is wrong or uninteresting I just mark it
> read and go on to the next.
This argument isn't new. The facts that counter this argument aren't new,
either. The fact is that it's VERY annoying to go into a newsgroup that was
once VERY great for its information and see more and more useless posts.
It's also very annoying to download one such useless post...or have to sift
through a sea of useless posts to get to a good one. It's also very annoying
to have to clean up someone else's mess when there are people on this NG that
may be new and don't know a crap post from a good post.
See my point? It's an annoyance. Annoyances are not good.
> It seems that, from his tone in his posts,
> that he is at least acting sorry, but the flames against him keep
> growing.
Acting. I'd say that's a very good word to use.
You can 'act' all you want, but, yet again, what do the facts say? Look at
his posts. He's not learning. The newsgroup counters every statement that
he makes with facts and he gets mad because he THINKS we're attacking him.
We even spell it out to him at point-blank range that we're NOT attacking him
and he still thinks that we are. The boy can't accept correction. It's like
I said when I first washed my hands of him:
A wise man accepts correction, but a fool delights in airing his own opinion.
-Proverbs 18:2
> Why are you all so obsessed with proving him wrong? It will
> never happen. He'll be him and you'll be you. Maybe if you became
> friends with him he'd one day change but that's iffy.
Ummm...no. If it "never happens", it's because he refuses to accept the
facts. I'll go on proving him wrong until he either accepts that he's wrong
or he leaves. That's it. I'm not letting any incorrect statement that I can
prove wrong go unchallenged. If I do that, I'm agreeing with a lie. Onaje
doesn't agree with lies. :) (I spoke of myself in the third person. That
Psych grad's rubbing off on me.) :)
Being able to spout out statements doesn't make someone who they are. It's
what they do with those statements. Also, as I've said many times before,
there would be no problem if the things JB posted about were subjective
issues (like what game he likes the most). In fact, I usually leave those
subjects alone because they tend to clutter up the newsgroup...though they
can be fun, I'll admit. But anyway, JB has posted stuff like that and I've
left it alone. Why? Subjective things can't be proven as true or false
except by the person that believes them. I like SSF2 for the SNES. Ultima
(being the glaring example that comes to mind when it comes to SSF2) doesn't.
Do you see me going after him with "why he should like SSF2"? No. Why?
It's his opinion...and "like" is a subjective term. Now...if I ask him WHY
he likes it and he goes into the reasons why by using arguments that AREN'T
factual, then I'm going to do my best to dispell every one of his fallacies.
THAT is the difference. JB doesn't use facts when posting a statement that
can only be true or false (i.e. Parries aren't overpowered....which can be
proven conclusively false.)...and that's why he gets railed upon. I've been
trying to tell him this (whether it's by directly telling him or showing him
by shooting down his arguments effectively and efficiently)...but he doesn't
want to listen. *shrug*
> Look, If I post "Valle and Choi are suckers. I'm da Best." And follow
> with a body that just rambles incoherently, I could probably get 15
> posts under it before I go away for a while happy that I got so many
> people rilled up.
Yes you would. Believe that.
> BUT, if I post "How Specifically could I beat Valle
> and Choi" or something to that affect maybe, just maybe 1 of you would
> reply.
Only if you used FACTUAL statements to back up that argument. If your
statements were based on fallacies and flat out wrong information, you'd get a
ton of replies there, too.
> JB is like Howard Stern. People call and listen to him because
> they DISAGREE with him. They like getting angry (one train of thought.
> Therory I heard a while ago).
Actually, I disagree with him...and I don't listen to him. I think you mean,
"Some of the people that call in and listen to him disagree with him."
Afterall, every talk show has people that call in and agree with the host.
So, logically, your statement is incorrect.
See? That's exactly how it goes. You post something that needs correcting
and someone else corrects it.
> Second, if I posted that suckers comment, I'd probably get a lot of
> flames but 3 of you might post why I couldn't beat them, therefore I
> could reverse it to find out how to beat them.
You know what that's called? Intelligence.
Yeah, you could find out about a person's playing style on the newsgroup, but
you won't really know if it works until you play them. You'll also find that
you can even know how a person plays and still be beaten by them (and this is
excluding the use of overpowered techniques like the Valle CC).
> If JB is the kind of guy who likes to get people mad and rilled up for
> attention, which I know several people of that personality type, it's
> BEST to LEAVE the posts UNANSWERED. So what if he says we're all
> monkeys and Scorpion beats Ryu for Free. So what?
This is true...but some of his stuff might be taken as fact by people that
are new to this newsgroup. That's not good at all. I never did like the
spread of misinformation.
> It reminds me of the Bad Guy-Good Girl syndrome. The girl wants to feel
> she accomplished something so she dates the bad guy and tries to change
> him. Just let him be and he'll learn his manners.
Little do they realize that it's OUTSIDE of a relationship that they can have
the most impact on the guy.
"Letting him be" is no guarantee that he'll change. He might go and hurt
someone else. You don't know. So, it's better to correct someone and help
them to see the error in their ways than it is to let them go their own way
and "hope for the best". It ends up being your fault if that person hurts
someone else.
However, if you try all you know to try and they still don't change, it falls
on them...not on you.
(Would you believe this is covered in scripture?)
> If you all really want him at EEC4 just so you can try and humiliate him
> for all his annoying posts, take up a collection.
As a lot of us have said before, the onus is on HIM to prove himself to us.
We've all pretty much done our part to prove ourselves. He's done nothing.
We're established. He's not. The ball is in his court.
> But... imagine if he got first place.
Then he'd be respected, wouldn't he? All the more incentive for him to go.
> Don't say it can't happen, just imagine. The day after he'd be on the NG
> bragging "Who's the man?" and "Now you should all listen to me now huh?"
> Or maybe he won't be because we all expect that and if he isn't we'll
> feel stupid. But there will be post after post from people about how he
> was lucky and stuff. He won't win either way. Neither will we.
Well, I can only answer for me. I'm humble and can accept when I'm wrong, so
I'd congradulate him. I don't care about my ego (anymore). If I'm wrong, I'm
wrong. I'd rather be wrong and know the truth than think I'm right and live a
lie.
> Why not everytime you read a post that makes you angry take a walk or 10
> deep breathes or consider the consequences of a retaliation post?
I do the last option. I don't need to do the first or second one. Really, I
don't get angry more than I get frustrated or annoyed. However, it's what I
do in those feelings that determines how I take that last option.
> What
> about assigning one of us to handle all bad and annoying posts. I'm
> serious. Say Onaje. We could elect him, or someone else as monitor. If
> someone posts something we don't like we all e-mail Onaje with what we
> don't like about it. Then he takes all of it and on the beginning of the
> second day, so everyone has had a chance to read it and respond he posts
> under it the sentiments of all of us in a diplomatic way that describes
> the weakness of the argument and then the correction to it. That way we
> all get to say what we feel and the the bandwith drops. But we only do
> this for posts that annoy us, ETA and Name posts would be normal if they
> don't annoy. Also, if Onaje missed something, we could send to him
> again and then when he feels he has all the requests for an addendum, he
> posts one LAST time. Voila, everything is satisfied. We could even post
> a FAQ that says the above everyweek on the NG.
Umm...I would...but there's this really big challenge I face everyday called
'life'. :) I guess I do it all the time, anyway, huh? :) Still, that's a
LOT of mail. Not good. I like things the way they are now. That way,
everyone has their point of view addressed.
> Also, everything on the NG is oppinion. Rarely is anything for fact.
False. Lemme ask you this? Is it a fact that you can combo Ryu's fierce FB
after interrupting a crouching fierce in SF2:CE? Yes. One counter-example is
all I need.
SF is a game of FACTS, not opinions. It doesn't matter whether you THINK
Guile's invisible throw is overpowered, it's there. It doesn't matter whether
you THINK that Bison's re-dizzy combo is overpowered, it's there. It either
exists or it doesn't. It's either true or false. Therefore, SF, the game of
discussion on this newsgroup, is a factual game.
Opinions are OUTSIDE of the game. They're valid, but they don't run the game.
> I
> regularly read soc.history.what-if and it's all about what if this
> happened. It is very interesting because the intelligence tends to be
> high and they logically explain how Hitler could have turned Germany
> into an Isolationist Economic Superpower and What If Rome had totally
> destroyed Greece.
But, again...the point is that SF isn't about what-if. It's about what-IS.
> Even those of you who believ that you are right about
> Parries being too powerful and combos being too strong and throws being
> cheap. Logic can be bent.
No, HUMAN logic is flawed. Period. TRUE logic (which I happen to believe is
God's logic) is perfect and true and cannot be bent in any way without a
contradiction being revealed.
> A) The sky is blue.
>
> B) The ocean is blue.
>
> C) The Sky is the ocean.
>
> Now ONLY using whats given in the above is it true? Yes. I know that the
> sky is not the ocean (kinda poetic. clouds are the crests of waves. : )
> ) but if that is all I'm goin on then it is true.
That's a perfect example of human logic. We don't know everything, but we
assume that since we know what we do know, it's right and it's all we need.
Not true, my friends. Not true.
> There are two pieces
> of information there, to answer the question as false I must be using my
> experiences and my knowledge by adding it to the question. You know the
> old "Can God create a stone so heavy he can not lift it paradox" and the
> "Can God create a triangle that is a circle."
>
> I'm NOT looking for you all t osend or post the answers but on the last
> on the answer is likely NO and here's why. The definition of a triangle
> is that it has three sides. The definition of a circle is that it has no
> sides per se, but is one big, well, circle. For God to create a round
> triangle, he would have to change our definitions of the word since by
> our restictive vocabulary it is not possible. But he is God you say.
> Yes, but by Human definition a triangle can not be a circle. But he is
> all Powerful. Yes, but that does not mean a triangle can be a circle
> unless the definitions we use to destinguish one from the other are
> changed.
Ah...lemme ask you this, though, "Can God lie?". Hmmmmm.......
Just because someone is all powerful doesn't mean that they aren't bound to
their own ways. No, God couldn't create a triangle that is also a circle.
That's a contradiction. If God is perfect, pure, and truthful, can He lie?
No.
Power doesn't give you the ability to contradict the truth. It gives you the
ability to live the truth.
(Whoa...I didn't even think about that until I typed it. That is DEEP,
folks.)
> Who am I to say what God can and cannot do? Nobody, but either are you.
> Only God truly knows if he exists and what he can do. All I can do is
> show what must be overcome for a specific thing to take place. He CAN
> make a circular triangle by changing our definitions or inventing a new
> one.
Truth cannot be changed. It is what it is and it's always what it is. You
know...like people say that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever?
God is unchanging. He's eternal. Oh yeah...I should've mentioned that God
IS the truth. (My....we're getting EXTREMELY theological here.)
> The definition of a weed in a dictionary is "any plant growing where you
> do not want it to." So my neighbors Roses are weeds and my Foxtails are
> the talk of the neighborhood.
>
> What if you tried to convince yourself that whatever you disagreed with
> you then pretend to believe that it is true.
Then you'd be self-decieved and the truth would often pass you right on by.
The problem with your supposition is that it assumes that the truth is
dependent on a person's beliefs. Sorry. It ain't that way. The truth is
the truth, irregardless of who believes it.
> Say you read "Throws are cheap."
>
> You don't believe it and before you flame the guy you think, "Alright,
> if throws were cheap, how would I feel? Could I back this up? Is it
> possible they aren't? Could I think that they are because I'm frustrated
> that I lose to throwers?"
This is the best way to approach any argument....with sensitivity. Hey?
That's what my name means! :) (The Sensitive One)
> Then you calmly, coming form both sides, post that throws could be cheap
> in certain moments but they generally aren't and that the ways to get
> out of them are XXX and to practice XXX and that the best ways to avoid
> being thrown are X,Y and Z.
Exactly. However, you have to remember that we ARE human, so we're prone to
take offense when it seems like the guy we're trying to correct is ignoring
us. I know that's true for me.
> I know JB and all of you as much as you know me. Give the guy a break.
> Maybe ,God forbid, he has a bad family life or something.
I don't want to sound insensitive, but what does that have to do with us? I
mean, we ALL have problems, but do we ALL take them out on people? No. Why?
We have a will. God gave us free will that we would be able to CHOOSE whether
or not to take out our problems on other people.
I'm sorry...but it's not about your upbringing. It's not about what you're
going through. It's about whether you CHOOSE to do the right thing.
If what you were saying were true, I'd be a drug addict...and I'm not.
Everything has an influence, whether negative or positive. However, whether
that influence is negative or positive depends on YOU. Nothing else.
> No one appointed any of us the NG monitors. Or for that matter the
> monitors of human nature.
However, I, for one, have been appointed as one who stands for the truth. I
have to stand. If I don't, I'm living a lie. You don't find the light only
to let everyone else stumble in darkness.
> The time spent doing some good for the NG or ourselves is given to
> trivial little things that eat up parts of our life. You won't be on
> your death bed wishing you had responded to one of JBs posts.
Now THAT'S a fact.
> It's pretty easy to judge from a computer screen huh?
True, it is. I do my best not to judge, but to correct and encourage. That's
what everyone should be doing, as well. You can't do it on your own, though.
(Read my signature, yet again.)
BTW, good post, Adrian. You addressed things that needed to be addressed.
Don't feel bad because I had to correct you. Instead, feel good because now
you know....
...........and knowing is half the battle. (Can you tell I tried to hold that
in?) :)
Onaje Everett, just a humble lover of combos at (o_ev...@hotmail.com).
Meaning: The Sensitive One Nicknames: FreshOJ, DaJooce, The Juice
Mantra: "I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."
-Philippians 4:13
Onaje Everett
Cammy White <ca...@grommit.com> wrote:
>
> Oh, by the way... I'm taking a class in computer graphics (hence my head is
> full of 3D matrix calculations and whatnot all the time) and a class in
> Discrete math (logic, probability, etc.). That's why I know this stuff.
> Really! ^_^
All I have to say is....you GO, girl!!!
When I was talking Discrete Math last semester, I was talking the exact same
way. You know your stuff. You GO!!! :)
> --Cammy, the logical, mathematical Scrub
I still say you're not a scrub. Keep kickin' that knowledge.
Onaje Everett
kish...@hotmail.com (Ankoku Kishi) wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Apr 1999 04:34:41 GMT, spmc...@midway.uchicago.edu (Shaun
> Patrick Mcisaac) wrote:
>
> > Again, you don't understand why ppl get angry when ppl post on
> >CCs. Saying 'I like A2' or 'CCs are cool' is a far cry from 'CCs are
> >garbage, they do no damage.'
> I understand perfectly. What I don't understand is why when some
> people see "I think throws are cheap", a blatant opinion, and we get
> threads like "THROWS ARE NOT CHEAP" or "So-and-so is a scrub". That's
> all. A lot of the crap that is fought over is opinion, at least that
> is what I've seen.
Well....when people don't back up their absolute opinions with FACTS, then
they're GOING to get flamed. It's like saying, "Hit me...PLEASE!", to a guy
that doesn't like you...or maybe just loves combos. :)
You cannot post that you think throws are cheap and expect people that KNOW
BETTER to sit idly by. It's not going to happen. Come with facts. Back up
your statements with fact. You WILL be respected for it. I am (and I say
that because others have expressed that respect, not so that I can brag).
Onaje Everett
In article <19990412005837...@ng115.aol.com>,
jbg...@aol.com (JB Gainz) wrote:
> Well, I don't mean to make people angry by what I think..
>
> Just because I say Spider-man's character was probably influenced by Scorpion
> of MK it is nothing I see to get pissed about.
>
> Because I say Dhalsim is the worst SF2WW character... should I be gang flamed?
Only if you don't back it up with facts.
Back up your statements with facts, and everything's coo'. It's what I
do...and it works.
Onaje Everett
"Jinston" <1JJC...@MtSAC.Edu> wrote:
>
> JB Gainz <jbg...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:19990412005837...@ng115.aol.com...
> >
> > Just because I say Spider-man's character was probably influenced by
> Scorpion
> > of MK it is nothing I see to get pissed about.
>
> how old Spider-Man is? He's like 30+ years old or something! How the hell
> could he be influenced by Scorpion of MK? If you're talking about how his
> moves etc. are in Marvel games, you're still insane! All his moves are
> based on the comic w/ exceptions to those ridiculous supers.
While you're right for the most part, it COULD'VE happened that they modeled
Spidey after Scorpion. It DIDN'T, but it could have been a possibility. I'm
looking at this from a strictly logical perspective, BTW. However, the
REALITY is that the Web Throw looks like it could have come from
Scorpion...but that doesn't (logically) mean that it did.
> > Because I say Dhalsim is the worst SF2WW character... should I be gang
> flamed?
>
> Yes! It's a VERY stupid comment. A conclusion come to by lack of logic.
> Meaning, you're an idiot!
Jinston. No. This is why he can sit here and say that he's being persecuted
for a difference of opinion. You're coming at him all wrong. Yes, he's
frustrating, but you won't get through to him by flaming him. That's been
proven. Your third statement is VERY correct, though. Dhalsim being the
worst in SF2:WW is a conclusion come to by lack of logic, but also lack of
knowledge. I used to think he was the worst, too...but that was before I got
on this newsgroup four years ago. :)
> > If you don't like what I say people.. here is an idea.. ignore it. Or
> even
> > better tell me what you think.. without disclaiming what I say. I will
> not
> > make fun of people because of what they think...
>
> How can we not tell you what we think w/o disclaiming your opinions?
> They're all wrong! (Parries, Spidey, Dhalsim, etc.)
Good response.
> > .. if you think Dhalsim is the best SF2 character..
This is for you, JB. WE KNOW he's #2. Why? We can PROVE it. You can't
prove Dhalsim is the worst character because....it's...not...true. You can't
prove something if it isn't true. This is the CENTRAL point of logic.
> good for you.. I
> disagree,
> > but that is my opinion and it does not matter in respect to you.
>
> Hey numb-skull! Read the freakin' replies to your idiotic comment! 2nd
> BEST! 2nd BEST!!! For the last time! 2nd BEST! No has one called him the
> best in a while.
Jinston.....breathe. Breathe in....breathe out. In through the nose, out
through the mouth. Expand the diaphragm....contract the diaphragm.
Now....sing a happy song using that breathing technique. :) (I am SOOO
goofy, I know.)
Onaje Everett
"Jinston" <1JJC...@MtSAC.Edu> wrote:
> That rat bastard...
> Adrian Alan Ratliff <da...@uswest.net> wrote in message
> news:37105A5A...@uswest.net...
> <SNIP>
> > they DISAGREE with him. They like getting angry (one train of thought.
> > Therory I heard a while ago).
>
> you listened to a show? Watched the movie? Sure he's an asshole, but he's
> an asshole that speaks his mind and the truth.
Whoa!!!!
To Howard Stern's credit (and this will probably be the ONLY TIME IN MY LIFE
I give him some credit), he speaks his mind. However, that man does NOT
(always) speak the truth. There's SOME truth (and I usually have to dig
DEEEEEEP to find it) in what he says, but don't be deceived.
And, no, I don't listen to Howard Stern anymore. That was a long time ago.
As for comparing Stern and Gainz, well....they have one thing in common..and I
just said what it was. They speak their mind. Being right about what they're
saying, however, is a different story.
Chocobo
> Chocobo wrote:
>
> > Whether a character is good or not has nothing to do with opinion. V-Akuma IS the best character in Alpha 3, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks. That is a fact.
>
> Now this I contest. Suppose Daigo were to come out and now with an
> awesome V-Birdie and beat the shit out of everybody (unlikely I know,
> but for the sake of argument). Would you still claim that V-Akuma is the
> best?
Just look at Birdie... there's no way he can compete. If Daigo did that, I'd be amazed by his skill... it would have nothing to do with Birdie. Alpha 3 has been played to the point where accurate rankings
are possible. There is no way Birdie is anywhere near the top unless he's got some BS trick or glitch, or maybe an infinite.
> Wasn't everybody claiming X-Dhalsim to be king not long back (not
> to mention Jeff Schafer's "Characters Alex Valle's beating me with this
> week" rankings before them)?
Not enough was known about the game, then.
> Face it, character rankings, gross
> applications aside (like Akuma in ST and A2's Big Four), are on on-going
> process, seldom remaining static.
That doesn't mean things are guaranteed to switch all around in the next few months.
> Isn't Blanka considered really weak in
> ST, yet J.Beasley's report from Japan mentioned a killer Blanka player?
Japan might have a great Juli player who could beat most of the top US players, that doesn't mean the character is good.
n00body
Onaje Everett (FreshOJ) <o_ev...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7et9s3$u8>
<SNIP>
> > What I'm getting at is that I don't see why JB is so important, no
> > offense JB. He posts and if it is wrong or uninteresting I just mark it
> > read and go on to the next.
>
> This argument isn't new. The facts that counter this argument aren't new,
> either. The fact is that it's VERY annoying to go into a newsgroup that
was
> once VERY great for its information and see more and more useless posts.
> It's also very annoying to download one such useless post...or have to
sift
> through a sea of useless posts to get to a good one. It's also very
annoying
> to have to clean up someone else's mess when there are people on this NG
that
> may be new and don't know a crap post from a good post.
This is a great paragraph...it shows what usenet has degenerated (maybe
that's a harsh word) into...a lot of people who don't know what they're
talking about and a small few that do.
> A wise man accepts correction, but a fool delights in airing his own
opinion.
> -Proverbs 18:2
Great proverb...I need to take that advice myself :)
> (Would you believe this is covered in scripture?)
I never realized how much of it was.
>I don't care about my ego (anymore). If I'm wrong, I'm
> wrong. I'd rather be wrong and know the truth than think I'm right and
live a
> lie.
I almost feel like putting these two quotes in my signature...they are
outstanding and are the core of what you believe Onaje.
>
> Power doesn't give you the ability to contradict the truth. It gives you
the
> ability to live the truth.
>
> (Whoa...I didn't even think about that until I typed it. That is DEEP,
> folks.)
That is really deep...I don't quite understand it yet.
> > You don't believe it and before you flame the guy you think, "Alright,
> > if throws were cheap, how would I feel? Could I back this up? Is it
> > possible they aren't? Could I think that they are because I'm frustrated
> > that I lose to throwers?"
>
> This is the best way to approach any argument....with sensitivity. Hey?
> That's what my name means! :) (The Sensitive One)
From what language does the name Onaje come from, Onaje? (And do you
pronounce it OH-NAJ or something like Onahe)
Nick K. Inabnit
that it isn't very often that I come across a post like this. Someone who
is actually standing up for the scapegoat. Maybe he is a scrub, maybe he
isn't. Unless I meet him, I'm holding my tongue.
I just wanted to say, I wish everyone on this NG expressed themselves with
more respect to people in general. Wouldn't it be so nice if people would
present what they have to say in an orderly fashion.
"Contrary to what you may think, Dhalsim is actually a very good character."
sounds much, MUCH better than "You FUCKING idiot! Dhalsim is the BEST!",
and usually the second will provoke huge threads of flame after flame.
I try to be polite when talking to people face to face, as when I'm
conversing with people over the net. I can only pray that some of the
people I have talked to on the net don't talk like that in a person to
person situation.
Basically, I just wish people would be more considerate when posting. If
something gets you mad, do exactly what Adrian said, take a few breaths or
something. Most of all, THINK before you post. It can save you some
embarrassment, and it makes for a much more enjoyable reading experience for
the NG.
-Nick
"...I don't want your club of invisible, intolerant,
isolated imbeciles who's only idea is to beat back
those who break the unspoken rules of popular society..."
-Jeff Wilson, excerpt from
his zine "Green Alley"
Nick K. Inabnit
>he just says and does what he wants and that goes against the "norm" and
THAT'S what pisses people off.
But isn't that what JB is doing? JB doesn't seem to care what the "norm" is
(Dhalsim is #2), and he speaks his mind about it. And JB definitely says
and does what he wants to. If he's got something to say, he's gonna say it.
(Yes, I do know what you are trying to say, but I think it could've been
worded a little more carefully.)
Ultima
> (Jinston talking about Howard Stern)
> >he just says and does what he wants and that goes against the "norm" and THAT'S what pisses people off.
> But isn't that what JB is doing? JB doesn't seem to care what the "norm" is (Dhalsim is #2), and he speaks his mind about it. And JB definitely says and does what he wants to. If he's got something to say, he's gonna say it.
> (Yes, I do know what you are trying to say, but I think it could've been worded a little more carefully.)
Problem is, Gainz usually has nothing of import to say. He just says
whatever crap that comes to his mind, and refuses to ackowledge that he
can ever be wrong. Going against the mold is one thing. Going against it
with absolutely no basis is another.
elizabeth & chris
in the latest copy of Tips & Tricks?
For those of you that didn't, they had an editor's list, N. Miami, East
Coast, S. Miami, Midwest, Arizona, and West Coast.
I actually popped them into Quattro Pro and did some math with the
rankings. For example, Akuma was ranked
NM EC MW SM ED AZ WC
2 1 13 1 2 1 1
which avaraged out to 3, but still ranked him at the top. As a matter
of fact, if I had thrown out highs and lows, it would have been
1+1+1+2+2=7, 7/5=1.4. Even more decisive in favor of V-Akuma.
With the results, I did average and variance. (Just used the VAR
command. I don't know if it's the statistically appropriate one or not,
but it still gave me an idea about how spread out the results were on a
given character.)
So, here's the list. Avg&Var were rounded to 2 places.
All a high Var # means is that the figures were widely spread.
Rank Name Avg Var Rank Name Avg Var
1. Akuma 3 16.86 17. M.Bison 16 12.57
2. Ryu 3.57 8.24 18. Cody 16.42 24.24
3. Rolento 4.57 6.24 19. Adon 17.57 81.10
4. Dhalsim 5.43 15.10 20. Charlie 18.86 38.69
5. Gen 5.57 6.24 21. Balrog 19.14 12.69
6. Ken 7.57 11.96 22. Blanka 19.14 70.97
7. Zangief 11.57 31.96 23. Honda 21.71 62.49
8. Dee Jay 12.29 80.20 24. Sagat 22.29 13.92
9. Fei Long 13.14 25.57 25. Cammy 22.43 23.96
10. Vega 13.43 47.67 26. Juni 25.29 9.06
11. Karin 13.86 53.55 27. R. Mika 25.29 34.20
12. Chun-Li 14 72.29 28. T. Hawk 25.71 19.06
13. Sodom 14.43 21.39 29. Guile 26.14 31.55
14. Guy 14.71 61.06 30. Juli 26.28 9.34
15. Rose 15.57 39.96 31. Birdie 26.71 10.77
16. Sakura 15.71 20.20 32. Dan 30.57 9.67
This is what this list tells me.
1) Juni, Juli, Birdie, and Dan belong at the bottom of the list.
2) Gen, Rolento, and Ryu belong near the top of the list.
3) Somebody needs to go to the Midwest with some V-Akuma whup-ass. :P
Even though opinions differ, the general trend shows through.
BTW, for some reason, even though S. Miami gave Akuma a 1, it was
A-Akuma and not V-Akuma. Perhaps the fact that 22 of the 32 on their
list are A-style would be the reason. Most other lists were more even.
Chris
Onaje Everett
"n00body" <ki2...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> From what language does the name Onaje come from, Onaje?
It's Nigerian.
> (And do you pronounce it OH-NAJ or something like Onahe)
Nah....it's OJ...with 'nah' in the middle. :) O-na-jay, with emphasis on the
"O".
BTW, I appreciate all of your comments, earlier. Part of that message wasn't
from me, though...if you know what I'm saying.
Onaje Everett
"Nick K. Inabnit" <ina...@concentric.net> wrote:
> I don't usually post here, but I do read this NG every day. I have noticed
> that it isn't very often that I come across a post like this. Someone who
> is actually standing up for the scapegoat. Maybe he is a scrub, maybe he
> isn't. Unless I meet him, I'm holding my tongue.
>
> I just wanted to say, I wish everyone on this NG expressed themselves with
> more respect to people in general. Wouldn't it be so nice if people would
> present what they have to say in an orderly fashion.
Yes, it surely would.
> "Contrary to what you may think, Dhalsim is actually a very good character."
> sounds much, MUCH better than "You FUCKING idiot! Dhalsim is the BEST!",
> and usually the second will provoke huge threads of flame after flame.
>
> I try to be polite when talking to people face to face, as when I'm
> conversing with people over the net. I can only pray that some of the
> people I have talked to on the net don't talk like that in a person to
> person situation.
>
> Basically, I just wish people would be more considerate when posting. If
> something gets you mad, do exactly what Adrian said, take a few breaths or
> something. Most of all, THINK before you post. It can save you some
> embarrassment, and it makes for a much more enjoyable reading experience for
> the NG.
I back this post 100%. It only makes sense. Be nice and you'll often get
people treating you nice back. However, I have to admit that some people
have a way of making flaming an artform. Seth Killian pops to mind.
Hmmm....'Way of the Flame'......HienRyu? :)
Chocobo
Most of the rankings in that magazine were a joke... just random crap made
up by one guy. Someone had X-Adon as #2, for instance.
>
> This is what this list tells me.
> 1) Juni, Juli, Birdie, and Dan belong at the bottom of the list.
> 2) Gen, Rolento, and Ryu belong near the top of the list.
> 3) Somebody needs to go to the Midwest with some V-Akuma whup-ass. :P
All correct...
>
> Even though opinions differ, the general trend shows through.
> BTW, for some reason, even though S. Miami gave Akuma a 1, it was
> A-Akuma and not V-Akuma. Perhaps the fact that 22 of the 32 on their
> list are A-style would be the reason. Most other lists were more even.
My personal guess would be that whoever did those rankings simply didn't
know what they were doing. Those averaged rankings you made are interesting
to see... but it really only further shows how off those people were. Ken
should be a bit lower, Zangief should be LOT lower. I guess that some of the
people making the rankings can't stop a Gief who does lots of jumping
fierces, as is the case with far too many A3 players. Bison is too low, and
Mika is way too low (below Honda and Sagat? give me a break).
Chun Li
> Most of the rankings in that magazine were a joke... just random crap made
> up by one guy. Someone had X-Adon as #2, for instance.
X-Adon is the best Adon to play....pay more quarters on X-Adon and you
tell me if that low strong -> Super -> air throw combo is a painass or
not.
Jack Lin --Zangief104
Ultima
Even if X-Adon is his best form (and I'm not arguing whether or not it
is), how in hell can X-Adon be ranked No.2?????
Chun Li
On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Ultima wrote:
> Chun Li wrote:
> > >
> > > Most of the rankings in that magazine were a joke... just random crap made up by one guy. Someone had X-Adon as #2, for instance.
>
> > X-Adon is the best Adon to play....pay more quarters on X-Adon and you
> > tell me if that low strong -> Super -> air throw combo is a painass or
> > not.
>
> Even if X-Adon is his best form (and I'm not arguing whether or not it
> is), how in hell can X-Adon be ranked No.2?????
Maybe people down there like abusing that confusing Jaguar Kick
thing....plus if you air throw as much as Daigo's A-Guy did, X-Adon'll be
a bitchass.
Ace-ISM
Jinston <1JJC...@MtSAC.Edu> wrote in message
news:92392293...@news.remarQ.com...
>
> Mark Zedaker <ch...@home.com> wrote in message
> news:chuji-12049...@cx45150-a.dt1.sdca.home.com...
> <SNIP>
> > Daigo coming over and destroying people with Birdie isn't really
> > relevant here -- to quote the long-lost but not forgotten Ken Tanaka:
> >
> > "What would this prove? I'm sure a 10th level master in Tazmanian butt
> > slapping could kick my ass, but that doesn't mean that butt slapping is
a
> > legitimate martial art."
>
> I gotta ask! = ) Is Tazmanian Butt-Slapping a REAL Martial-Art?
Something
> made by Aboriginals perhaps?
Errr ... somehow I don't think so =P. They were more likely to throw a spear
through you instead of use martial arts =P.
--
Ace-ISM
http://i.am/karinsan
"Someone of your breeding could never stand a chance against me!"
-
Chun Li
> Most of the rankings in that magazine were a joke... just random crap made
> up by one guy. Someone had X-Adon as #2, for instance.
Random crap....this isn't the only one. DeeJay and Chun Li are the only
two characters placed on BOTH top 3 and last 3 among these 7 rankings....
I believe X-Adon can be #2 in a local ranking because fighting against
X-Adon is something fresh. And you don't know exactly what your opponents
will do.....
Back to Nationals in November. Who the heck played A-Guy before seeing
Daigo's bullshits? Valle and his fellow lost because A-Guy was fresh for
them. They didn't know what a good Guy players do....Right after the
tourney, a A-Guy bandwagon had been going on for a while. It stopped
simply because people figured out how to encounter Guy after experiencing
more....
I won't even be surprised if Daigo uses Birdie to destroy my ass. I don't
even know what he will do.
>
> My personal guess would be that whoever did those rankings simply didn't
> know what they were doing. Those averaged rankings you made are interesting
> to see... but it really only further shows how off those people were. Ken
> should be a bit lower, Zangief should be LOT lower. I guess that some of the
> people making the rankings can't stop a Gief who does lots of jumping
> fierces, as is the case with far too many A3 players. Bison is too low, and
> Mika is way too low (below Honda and Sagat? give me a break).
>
But there still are people who can't encounter an array of Body Splashs.
Splash is just THAT good. There is no way to air throw Zangief....and
IN THIS GAME IF YOU DON'T AIR THROW YOU CAN'T WIN. Or, even worse, people
still do PP flip after being hit by Splash on the air. Then another Lv 3
Kick super just grab them down....
Don't argue it. Everyone says "I know how to encounter Zangief's SPD
tick, just don't attack after the low short". Then why do people still
keep doing that? It is human nature to press something when you see your
opponent makes a stop, and just fall into another SPD/FAB. I don't say
Zangief is a top-tier and he is not. But Zangief definitely has advantage
on psychological game....
robo...@my-dejanews.com
Chun Li <jac...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Ultima wrote:
>
> > Chun Li wrote:
> > > >
made up by one guy. Someone had X-Adon as #2, for instance.
> >
> > > tell me if that low strong -> Super -> air throw combo is a painass or
> > > not.
> >
> > Even if X-Adon is his best form (and I'm not arguing whether or not it
> > is), how in hell can X-Adon be ranked No.2?????
>
> Maybe people down there like abusing that confusing Jaguar Kick
> thing....plus if you air throw as much as Daigo's A-Guy did, X-Adon'll be
> a bitchass.
I don't know about that. I've never lost to cpu Adon or human Adon yet in A3.
The only place I saw him played was at Denis' place for games, so at least the
comp knew what they were doing. If I'm not mistaken, that Jaguar Kick is easy
to beat and Zangief mops the floor w/Adon.
Prove me wrong please,
Dale
EC
<ina...@concentric.net> wrote:
>I don't usually post here, but I do read this NG every day. I have noticed
>that it isn't very often that I come across a post like this. Someone who
>is actually standing up for the scapegoat. Maybe he is a scrub, maybe he
>isn't. Unless I meet him, I'm holding my tongue.
>
>I just wanted to say, I wish everyone on this NG expressed themselves with
>more respect to people in general. Wouldn't it be so nice if people would
>present what they have to say in an orderly fashion.
>
>"Contrary to what you may think, Dhalsim is actually a very good character."
>sounds much, MUCH better than "You FUCKING idiot! Dhalsim is the BEST!",
>and usually the second will provoke huge threads of flame after flame.
>
>I try to be polite when talking to people face to face, as when I'm
>conversing with people over the net. I can only pray that some of the
>people I have talked to on the net don't talk like that in a person to
>person situation.
>
>Basically, I just wish people would be more considerate when posting. If
>something gets you mad, do exactly what Adrian said, take a few breaths or
>something. Most of all, THINK before you post. It can save you some
>embarrassment, and it makes for a much more enjoyable reading experience for
>the NG.
>
>
>-Nick
>
Maybe... but take this into consideration. If we are going to take
this newsgroup to the level of "a face to face conversation" think of
it this way. We have been having this conversation since back in the
early 90's. If in a face to face you jump into a strangers
conversation and presume to know more than the people having the
conversation WITHOUT listening to the discussion first, I would kindly
tell you to fuck off. Keep in mind that this is not a polite
conversation but a way to share info. Many of the people don't have
the time or the patience to regurgitate the same crap over and over
again for a new scrub to read and then argue against in a losing
battle.
If Gainz thinks Dhalsim is utter shite in SF2, he should present a new
and different argument that holds water. Go test it. Go read dejanews.
Go do some homework. He states he doesn't care about SF anyway, so you
know what? Take that back to that last paragraph. Now we have people
discussing something for oh say 7 or 8 years in detail and a new guy
jumps in and says "I know more than you" and then proceeds to say some
stupid crap that is unfounded only to follow it up with "I haven't
played in a year and don't care about it".
Give me a fucking break.
Then again maybe its because I am from NY.
Erik
Stuart White
: I'm impressed. Your life experiences are not mine or anyone elses. I would
: think that your experience is relatively rare. The question is "Do you currently
: expect and want your master and teachers to go prove themselves?"
I would want them to prove themselves. Would you accept a driving
instructor who has not taken the test? Would you employ someone to do a
highly technical job who had no training or formal qualifications?
It is possible to learn from people who are not qualified, but why take
the risk? If you know they can back it up and prove their skills, you know
that they are legitimate.
:> > I know JB is no master but either are we. What if he is the best on
:> > this NG and is just weird and excentric in his posts? He could play
:>
:> If that were true, why would he be posting information that was wrong?
:
: Cause he is weird and excentric. He gets a kick out of misinformation.
That would make him a troll.
:> He's not interesting. Both of them are just funny to watch, since they
:> blindly believe what they keep saying.
:
: Don't you blindly believe what you already believe and say? Is it to be gathered
: thet you do not blindly believ in what you say? Take out the 'blindly,' do you
: not believe in what you say? Their coming off blindly is your opinion, is it
: not? I doubt that you live in a 100% doubt of everything, so you must have
: accepted certain things as true.
Everyone believes what they say is true. However, most people will change
their opinion when confronted with evidence that proves that their view
was incorrect.
:> We're not obsessed with proving him wrong. After we *prove* him wrong, he
:> continues the thread...
:
: Which leads to the idea that since it has no effect on his posting frrquency and
: might actually increase it, it should probably be avoided.
Well, the choices we had were:
1) Educate him, so that he can learn more about the game and make an
intelligent contribution.
2) Accept that he is a lost cause and ignore him.
Most people opted for #1, because they assumed that he could learn that
what he was saying was incorrect. It doesn't seem to have worked. So I
guess now we have to go for #2.
:> > Logic can be bent.
:>
:> Actually, no it can't. The only thing that can be bent is the semantics of
:> the statements used for logic...
:
: Please explain this a bit more. If a semantic is "Of or relating to meaning,
: esp. meaning in language" how does it apply?
At the start of a logical proof, you define the meanings of terms - these
are open to interpretation and you must decide on appropriate semantic
definitions.
E.g. All men must die. What do we mean by men? Do we mean all human
beings, or do we mean all males? What do we mean by die? Is the soul
not immortal?
These are flexible, and the meaning can be bent, so it is important to
reach an agreement about what is meant before the proof is...um, proven.
The logical proof itself *cannot* be bent - only the semantic definitions
can.
:> > A) The sky is blue.
:> > B) The ocean is blue.
:> > C) The Sky is the ocean.
[...]
: Wait. Can you use my Ocean-Sky satement and show me how I would have to phraze
: it to be true?
There is no way to reach the conclusion you did with the propositions you
had - it is not valid logic.
For it to be a valid logical form, you would have had to say:
A) All blue things are sky
B) The ocean is blue
C) Therefore the ocean is sky
Which would follow logically. But, obviously, A is an invalid assumption.
:> The definition of a
:> triangle is the polygon enclosed by 3 given points.
:
: The American Heritage College Dictionary:
:
: Triangle: 1) The plane figure formed by connecting three points not in a
: straight line by straight line segments; a three sided polygon.
:
: Plane: 1)A surface containing all the straight lines that connect any two points
: on it. 2) A flat or level surface.
You will get different definitions from different sources. Which is right?
You have to decide on appropriate definitions.
: Logic is described in words.
: Words are flawed by semantics.
: Therefore, Logic is flawed by semantics.
:
: Does that work?
No. The semantics only flaw the definitions. The logic itself is either
valid or invalid - regardless of the flaws in the definitions.
E.g. Say I give you two real apples and a plastic toy apple. I say you now
have three apples, since 2 + 1 = 3. You say you have 2 apples, since the
plastic apple is not really an apple. Does this make the mathematics
flawed in any way? No, it is just the interpretation of the word apple.
:> > The definition of a weed in a dictionary is "any plant growing where you
:> > do not want it to." So my neighbors Roses are weeds and my Foxtails are
:> > the talk of the neighborhood.
:>
:> Depending on your dictionary... which is, once again, a question of
:> semantics.
:
: It says that definition in my AHC dictionary. Aren't all dictionaries
: relatively, say 99.9% in agreement. If they are NOT, then which ones are
: correct? Which one do you use? Doesn't that make the use of a dictionary a bad
: one since none are the same?
Language changes. The only meaning that words have is the meaning that we
ascribe to them - and this changes over time. There is a big philosophical
debate over the nature of language, and whether we can ever know what each
of us means. What is your definition of beauty? I'll bet you now that it
is not the same as mine. And I'll bet it is not the same as the definition
in the dictionary.
: But he commited no crime. This is a NG, not a trial. OK is different from
: understanding. All assholes, I'm not saying you JB, that I've met have had
: family problems. If it wasn't for this, me knowing that, I would probably be a
: lot harder to them, but I feel compasion for them so I cut them some slack.
You clearly haven't met enough assholes... ^_^
:> > No one appointed any of us the NG monitors. Or for that matter the
:> > monitors of human nature.
:>
:> So we are all free to post as we like. Que sera, sera. C'est le vie.
:
: Yes, but I think you would agree that to be bothered by something and not do a
: long term fix isn't logical..
:
: "JB bothers me. I'll flame him. Though I know from experience will not make him
: leave. He might even reply back. I'll do it anyway."
:
: This obviously doesn't help. I didn't write this because everyone on this NG
: posts of they're acceptance and understanding and NON-bothermant at JBGains'
: posts.
Most people have been doing it because they thought it would help. Now,
people have seen that it hasn't been effective and are starting to ignore
him.
: So far I have read throught 75 of JBGains most recnt posts to this NG and can
: not find evidence of the guy he is said to be. I also read 21 of thr 45 SF2
: thread and my oppinion on that is that it wasn't his fault.
Read the earlier posts. And read the stuff that people are reposting from
dejanews - he keeps claiming that he never instigated anything, but people
are posting proof that he did.
: A) At ASU I was considered skilled for a while by the people there because I
: kept trying to improve and they would say "Damn, he gots skills." Relation to
: JB. If people at the arcade he plays at say that about him then so what. He
: doesn't have to be god and its true to them. He can say it all he wants. He
: never said "I played Valle and he said 'Damn, You should Teach me'" or something
: like that.
He needs to be aware that his skills may not be as impressive against
better competition.
I can beat my sister at chess, and she thinks I am pretty good. Would it
be appropriate for me to go to rec.games.chess and boast about my mad
chess skillz, and back out of playing anyone? What kind of a response do
you think I would get? I think it would be much the same as the response
JB Gainz got here.
Shaun Patrick Mcisaac
Adrian Alan Ratliff <da...@uswest.net> wrote:
>Hi again,
>Cammy White wrote:
>> Adrian Alan Ratliff wrote:
>> > Do those of you who take a martial art make your master fight in
>> > teachers to fly to conventions to hear the latest in that field?
>> that's enough proof for me. ^^; My professors *do* attend conventions all
>> the time... and many times they officiate them. *sigh*
>think that your experience is relatively rare. The question is "Do you currently
>expect and want your master and teachers to go prove themselves?"
They're not rare. College profs have to go to these kinds of
things, either in the audience or as the lecturer. They have to keep up
with the field, period.
>Oh, I'm sorry. The second imaginary post is a little hard to understand. It is a
>question. "HOW could I beat Valle and Choi, SPECIFICALLY?" I don't believe many
>if at all people on this group would answer it with ideas I can use. People
>tend to with hold info like that.
Depending on the game, you'd still probably get answers. They
might only be a matter of 'look at the tourney tapes', but you wouldn't
get flamed for it.
>Wait. Can you use my Ocean-Sky satement and show me how I would have to
>phraze it to be true?
You can't do it with rewriting the language used to put the words
together. You can create an arbitrary language such that the words ocean
and sky are both some singular blue object (type) but you can't do it with
english.
>> The definition of a
>> triangle is the polygon enclosed by 3 given points.
>The American Heritage College Dictionary:
>Triangle: 1) The plane figure formed by connecting three points not in a
>straight line by straight line segments; a three sided polygon.
>Plane: 1)A surface containing all the straight lines that connect any two points
>on it. 2) A flat or level surface.
They're probably wrong.
><snip> By the way Cammy, how often do you play anyway?
<ZONK garbage>
Adrian, your worship of JBG is getting annoying. "He never started
anything." You must be a troll. No one can be this dense, after 'reading
his last 75 posts.
--
SPM...
PINE 3.95 SIGNATURE EDITOR Folder: INBOX 0 Messages
^G Get Help ^X Exit ^R Read File ^Y Prev Pg ^K Cut Text ^A BBIW
^C Cancel ^J Justify ^W Where is ^V Next Pg ^U UnCut Text^T To Spell
Shaun Patrick Mcisaac
Chun Li <jac...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>Splash is just THAT good. There is no way to air throw Zangief....and
>IN THIS GAME IF YOU DON'T AIR THROW YOU CAN'T WIN. Or, even worse, people
Then why do so many characters beat up on Zangief? And why isn't
he top tier?
>still do PP flip after being hit by Splash on the air. Then another Lv 3
>Kick super just grab them down....
.. and proceed to get kicked out of it for your efforts. Glad you A:
picked Aism for less damage and B: used that meter up without FABing.
>Don't argue it. Everyone says "I know how to encounter Zangief's SPD
>tick, just don't attack after the low short". Then why do people still
>keep doing that? It is human nature to press something when you see your
>opponent makes a stop, and just fall into another SPD/FAB. I don't say
>Zangief is a top-tier and he is not. But Zangief definitely has advantage
>on psychological game....
Only if you don't know your air defense. This is somewhat
forgivable in A3. The splash *ISN'T* that good, Jack.. but the things
that are air defense against it don't look like they should be, and the
things that look like they should be, aren't. Look at Charlie's FK.
That's air defense, right? wwwwwwwrrrrrong! Everyone beats that POS
move. If the vulnerable/hitting boxes could be displayed for the game ala
MK3, this game would be a lot easier to understand. I can't believe I
just suggested an MK feature for SF... shoot me.
Chun Li
On Tue, 13 Apr 1999 robo...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.96.99041...@ux12.cso.uiuc.edu>,
> Chun Li <jac...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Ultima wrote:
> >
> > > Chun Li wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Most of the rankings in that magazine were a joke... just random crap
> made up by one guy. Someone had X-Adon as #2, for instance.
> > >
> > > > X-Adon is the best Adon to play....pay more quarters on X-Adon and you
> > > > tell me if that low strong -> Super -> air throw combo is a painass or
> > > > not.
> > >
> > > Even if X-Adon is his best form (and I'm not arguing whether or not it
> > > is), how in hell can X-Adon be ranked No.2?????
> >
> > Maybe people down there like abusing that confusing Jaguar Kick
> > thing....plus if you air throw as much as Daigo's A-Guy did, X-Adon'll be
> > a bitchass.
>
> I don't know about that. I've never lost to cpu Adon or human Adon yet in A3.
> The only place I saw him played was at Denis' place for games, so at least the
> comp knew what they were doing. If I'm not mistaken, that Jaguar Kick is easy
> to beat and Zangief mops the floor w/Adon.
I agree Zangief beats Adon for free....I also agree Jaguar Kick is easy to
beat, too. But did I say you need to abuse Jaguar kick like Z abuses his
splash? NO. I said what u need to abuse is AIR THROW and his Super,
which is a good getting up & goes through fireball as well.
Chun Li
On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.96.990413...@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu>,
> Chun Li <jac...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> >Splash is just THAT good. There is no way to air throw Zangief....and
> >IN THIS GAME IF YOU DON'T AIR THROW YOU CAN'T WIN. Or, even worse, people
>
> Then why do so many characters beat up on Zangief? And why isn't
> he top tier?
You should switch your playing style when facing top tiers. Don't just
Splash all the time. AIR THROW'em. Ok, tell me who beats Zangief beside
X-Dhalsim and V-Vega! I destroy all Vega players I have met cause Vega
has small air throw range. Dhalsim....fuck that, that's another story. I
don't even try hard on beating Dhalsim. I just simply put another two
quarters and pick any-Blanka/X-DeeJay/X-Rolento to beat 'sim's crap.
> >still do PP flip after being hit by Splash on the air. Then another Lv 3
> >Kick super just grab them down....
>
> .. and proceed to get kicked out of it for your efforts. Glad you A:
> picked Aism for less damage and B: used that meter up without FABing.
>
> >Don't argue it. Everyone says "I know how to encounter Zangief's SPD
> >tick, just don't attack after the low short". Then why do people still
> >keep doing that? It is human nature to press something when you see your
> >opponent makes a stop, and just fall into another SPD/FAB. I don't say
> >Zangief is a top-tier and he is not. But Zangief definitely has advantage
> >on psychological game....
>
> Only if you don't know your air defense. This is somewhat
> forgivable in A3. The splash *ISN'T* that good, Jack.. but the things
> that are air defense against it don't look like they should be, and the
> things that look like they should be, aren't. Look at Charlie's FK.
> That's air defense, right? wwwwwwwrrrrrong! Everyone beats that POS
> move. If the vulnerable/hitting boxes could be displayed for the game ala
> MK3, this game would be a lot easier to understand. I can't believe I
> just suggested an MK feature for SF... shoot me.
If Splash isn't that good why did I keep Splashing you and sol and keep
doing low short -> SPD? Fuck flash kick. It does shit priority, should
do low fierce.
By the way wanna go to SJG after May 11, the day my summer vacation
starts?
Chocobo
> On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Ultima wrote:
>
> > Chun Li wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Most of the rankings in that magazine were a joke... just random crap made up by one guy. Someone had X-Adon as #2, for instance.
> >
> > > X-Adon is the best Adon to play....pay more quarters on X-Adon and you
> > > tell me if that low strong -> Super -> air throw combo is a painass or
> > > not.
A-Adon seems a lot better to me. Those jumpkicks are nothing but targets, jump up and attack early and you'll hit Adon easily... plus
A-Adon has the good jumping forward. I'm no Adon expert, though... but I can still you he is NOWHERE near the top.
>
> > Even if X-Adon is his best form (and I'm not arguing whether or not it
> > is), how in hell can X-Adon be ranked No.2?????
>
> Maybe people down there like abusing that confusing Jaguar Kick
> thing....plus if you air throw as much as Daigo's A-Guy did, X-Adon'll be
> a bitchass.
Is that like abusing Dan's fireball?
That kick is easily beatable, and any V-ism character can just VC right through it.
Chocobo
> On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
>
> > In article <Pine.SOL.3.96.990413...@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu>,
> > Chun Li <jac...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> > >Splash is just THAT good. There is no way to air throw Zangief....and
> > >IN THIS GAME IF YOU DON'T AIR THROW YOU CAN'T WIN. Or, even worse, people
> >
> > Then why do so many characters beat up on Zangief? And why isn't
> > he top tier?
>
> You should switch your playing style when facing top tiers. Don't just
> Splash all the time. AIR THROW'em. Ok, tell me who beats Zangief beside
> X-Dhalsim and V-Vega!
Air throw, with Zangief? That doesn't really work too well. Who else beats
Zangief? Well, there's Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Gen, Rolento, Karin, Sakura, Chun Li,
Cammy, Juli, Juni, Sodom, Cody, Guy, and Bison all kick his ass. And actually,
Vega is one of the characters who doesn't have an easy time.
> I destroy all Vega players I have met cause Vega
> has small air throw range. Dhalsim....fuck that, that's another story. I
> don't even try hard on beating Dhalsim. I just simply put another two
> quarters and pick any-Blanka/X-DeeJay/X-Rolento to beat 'sim's crap.
So Vega sucks because his airthrow range is small, and Blanka beats Dhalsim? That
says something about your competition.
> > Only if you don't know your air defense. This is somewhat
> > forgivable in A3. The splash *ISN'T* that good, Jack.. but the things
> > that are air defense against it don't look like they should be, and the
> > things that look like they should be, aren't. Look at Charlie's FK.
> > That's air defense, right? wwwwwwwrrrrrong! Everyone beats that POS
> > move. If the vulnerable/hitting boxes could be displayed for the game ala
> > MK3, this game would be a lot easier to understand. I can't believe I
> > just suggested an MK feature for SF... shoot me.
>
> If Splash isn't that good why did I keep Splashing you and sol and keep
> doing low short -> SPD?
I don't know about the match you're talking about or the people you played
against, but the splash is not such a great move in Alpha 3, not like it was in
A2 anyway.
Chun Li
On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Chocobo wrote:
Just because I said it's confusing, doesn't mean I suggest people to abuse
Jaguar Kick....You should do it as a surprise like Akuma's hooligan
combination (I forgot the name but that move is sorta like Cammy's
anyway).....the main strategy is AIR THROW and Supering when you see a
fireball!
Chun Li
Jack Lin aka Zangief104
Hey cutie, never go to arcade with your boyfriend, unless you wanna see
him get whooped.....painfully whooped
On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Chocobo wrote:
> Chun Li wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
> >
> > > In article <Pine.SOL.3.96.990413...@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu>,
> > > Chun Li <jac...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> > > >Splash is just THAT good. There is no way to air throw Zangief....and
> > > >IN THIS GAME IF YOU DON'T AIR THROW YOU CAN'T WIN. Or, even worse, people
> > >
> > > Then why do so many characters beat up on Zangief? And why isn't
> > > he top tier?
> >
> > You should switch your playing style when facing top tiers. Don't just
> > Splash all the time. AIR THROW'em. Ok, tell me who beats Zangief beside
> > X-Dhalsim and V-Vega!
>
> Air throw, with Zangief? That doesn't really work too well. Who else beats
> Zangief? Well, there's Ryu, Ken, Akuma
Zangief is born to beat shoto, period. At least my Zangief is.
>Gen, Rolento,
Punch Lariat beats Rolento's air jump. I play Rolento too and my friend's
Zangief destroys my Rolento the same way I destroy his Rolento with
Zangief.
>Karin,
Theoretically Karin should whoop Zangief (standing Fierce and huge air
throw range). But I just destroy'em anyway.
>Sakura,
I admit Sakura whooped Zangief back to A2, but this is A3.
>Chun Li,
Only X has a tiny chance to beat Splash. Chun Li can't air throw Gief.
Also Lariat beats spinning bird kick--3 hits! VC? what VC? fireball?
Cornering Gief = free FAB.
>Cammy, Juli, Juni
that's rite, CAMMY! but i am sure about Juli and Juni.
>Sodom
How? that power bomb VC? Never....My Z just jumps around against Sodom and
how do u catch me? Also Lariat beats Jitti
>Cody,
Unless I get hit by that ridiculus 40-hit X-ism super, there's no way Cody
beats Zangief.
>Guy
Guy should beat Zangief but I don't face any tough Guys.
>and Bison all kick his ass.
I don't lose Bison but my Bison destroys gief.
And
actually,
> Vega is one of the characters who doesn't have an easy time.
>
> > I destroy all Vega players I have met cause Vega
> > has small air throw range. Dhalsim....fuck that, that's another story. I
> > don't even try hard on beating Dhalsim. I just simply put another two
> > quarters and pick any-Blanka/X-DeeJay/X-Rolento to beat 'sim's crap.
>
> So Vega sucks because his airthrow range is small, and Blanka beats Dhalsim? That
> says something about your competition.
>
> > > Only if you don't know your air defense. This is somewhat
> > > forgivable in A3. The splash *ISN'T* that good, Jack.. but the things
> > > that are air defense against it don't look like they should be, and the
> > > things that look like they should be, aren't. Look at Charlie's FK.
> > > That's air defense, right? wwwwwwwrrrrrong! Everyone beats that POS
> > > move. If the vulnerable/hitting boxes could be displayed for the game ala
> > > MK3, this game would be a lot easier to understand. I can't believe I
> > > just suggested an MK feature for SF... shoot me.
> >
> > If Splash isn't that good why did I keep Splashing you and sol and keep
> > doing low short -> SPD?
>
> I don't know about the match you're talking about or the people you played
> against, but the splash is not such a great move in Alpha 3, not like it was in
> A2 anyway.
>
>
>
Ok if Splash is "not that great", what about Lariat and Lv. kick super?
Chocobo
> On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Chocobo wrote:
>
>
> > Air throw, with Zangief? That doesn't really work too well. Who else beats
> > Zangief? Well, there's Ryu, Ken, Akuma
>
> Zangief is born to beat shoto, period. At least my Zangief is.
I know this is really oversimplifying it, but they have fireballs and dragon punches...
so they win. How can Zangief get close enough to do anything?
>
> >Gen, Rolento,
>
> Punch Lariat beats Rolento's air jump. I play Rolento too and my friend's
> Zangief destroys my Rolento the same way I destroy his Rolento with
> Zangief.
Why is Rolento jumping at Zangief? That should never happen. It's not safe for either
one of them to jump. Zangief has to chase Rolento on the ground, while Rolento throws
knives, uses low fierce, and flies off the wall if he happens to get cornered. Zangief
can never catch Rolento.
>
> >Karin,
>
> Theoretically Karin should whoop Zangief (standing Fierce and huge air
> throw range). But I just destroy'em anyway.
Well, I personally haven't had much trouble against Karin while using Zangief, but that
doesn't mean Zangief is good, it's just that no one I played knew how to use Karin.
>
> >Sakura,
>
> I admit Sakura whooped Zangief back to A2, but this is A3.
Sakura is almost as good in A3 as she was in A2... Zangief still can't get close to
her.
>
> >Chun Li,
> Only X has a tiny chance to beat Splash. Chun Li can't air throw Gief.
> Also Lariat beats spinning bird kick--3 hits! VC? what VC? fireball?
> Cornering Gief = free FAB.
>
Are you kidding me? Chun Li wins this with one button. Both her standing fierce and her
low roundhouse beat every single thing Zangief has in the air, as well as her kikosho
which does 50% damage. This means that Zangief has no choice but to try to outpoke Chun
Li on the ground.... which does not happen. You're talking about spinning bird kick,
VCs, air throws... those all suck, no good Chun Li would use those.
> >Sodom
>
> How? that power bomb VC? Never....My Z just jumps around against Sodom and
> how do u catch me? Also Lariat beats Jitti
Well, Sodom doesn't destroy Zangief like the rest of the people in this list, I admit.
But you really can't do anything about his free 30% damage VC.
>
> >Cody,
> Unless I get hit by that ridiculus 40-hit X-ism super, there's no way Cody
> beats Zangief.
Cody wins this with two moves. Rock throw, and standing fierce. Zangief will never get
close.
> >and Bison all kick his ass.
>
> I don't lose Bison but my Bison destroys gief.
Bison stand fierce beats almost everything Gief has.
> > I don't know about the match you're talking about or the people you played
> > against, but the splash is not such a great move in Alpha 3, not like it was in
> > A2 anyway.
> >
> Ok if Splash is "not that great", what about Lariat and Lv. kick super?
The splash is all right, but it's not like A2 where it beats almost everything. His
jumping fierce is a lot better. The punch button lariat sucks... the kick button lariat
has some uses. It's a near perfect air defense against jumping attacks... but if
someone knows you always lariat, they can jump in and block, and then hit you with a
sweep or super. That's not exactly common, but I'm just saying the lariat isn't
perfect. His level 3 airthrow super is a pretty good move, but unless your opponent
likes to jump around all day, you probably won't be able to land it. The best Zangief
is V-ism, because he can at least get in occasionally. Jumpin VC and then chain into
SPD gives him a slight chance.
Chun Li
> jumping fierce is a lot better. The punch button lariat sucks... the kick button lariat
> has some uses. It's a near perfect air defense against jumping attacks... but if
> someone knows you always lariat, they can jump in and block, and then hit you with a
> sweep or super. That's not exactly common, but I'm just saying the lariat isn't
> perfect. His level 3 airthrow super is a pretty good move, but unless your opponent
> likes to jump around all day, you probably won't be able to land it. The best Zangief
> is V-ism, because he can at least get in occasionally. Jumpin VC and then chain into
> SPD gives him a slight chance.
>
>
>
back up. I not a person who talks trash. I say things only when I can
back'em up. And I am here claiming Zangief is the best character. NO he
isn't. The best belongs to Akuma, Dhalim, Gen, Rolento, and Ryu (this
sentence doesn't mean Akuma is #1 and Ryu is #5, just list'em
alphabetically). I am here to claim Zangief is just located at where he
is supposed to be--middle tier. He shouldn't be lowered. I can back it
up. I know how worthy I am as a SF player in this group. I know who I
can destroy and who destroy me. Also, I don't say silly stuff since I am
well-educated....
Jack Lin
Chun Li
Ignore the previous post.....read this one.
Jack Lin aka Zangief104
Hey cutie, never go to arcade with your boyfriend, unless you wanna see
him get whooped.....painfully whooped
On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Chun Li wrote:
> > The splash is all right, but it's not like A2 where it beats almost everything. His
> > jumping fierce is a lot better. The punch button lariat sucks... the kick button lariat
> > has some uses. It's a near perfect air defense against jumping attacks... but if
> > someone knows you always lariat, they can jump in and block, and then hit you with a
> > sweep or super. That's not exactly common, but I'm just saying the lariat isn't
> > perfect. His level 3 airthrow super is a pretty good move, but unless your opponent
> > likes to jump around all day, you probably won't be able to land it. The best Zangief
> > is V-ism, because he can at least get in occasionally. Jumpin VC and then chain into
> > SPD gives him a slight chance.
> >
> >
> >
> I don't even bother playing A2 Zangier....A3 Zangief is better. I can
> back up. I not a person who talks trash. I say things only when I can
> back'em up. And I am NOT here claiming Zangief is the best character.NO
sol t kim
In article <3711833F...@uswest.net>,
Adrian Alan Ratliff <da...@uswest.net> wrote:
>> <snip>
>> > Probably not. And if JB is a scrub, why do you want him there? To add
>> > to the winners pot? To humiliate him?
>>
>> JB (not Gainz) said he was really good. I want to know if he really *is*
>> good. That would actually lend a little more credibility to what he says.
>>
>
>I'll check on this later this week. All I hear of is JB Gainz recently and the
>thread I see is called "JB Gainz, Come to ECC4." I figured he was of discussion.
the expression here is "teaching a lesson". also "a humbling experience"
comes to mind, Gainz needs a little of it, me thinks.
>Cause he is weird and excentric. He gets a kick out of misinformation.
>*****See bottom of post******
so you respect him for posting crap? that's not right. Whoever bombards
PUBLIC forum with garbage deserves to be bombarded in return.
<snip>
>Einstein was right for a while before it was proven, relativity.
What are you talking about? be specific. Many people thought he was right,
and THEN he was proven. Einstein was neither right nor wrong before he was
proven.
>What abou the
>church that hid that the sun was the center of the universe for 200 years?
first, sun is not the center of the universe, it's the center of the solar
system. next, church did not hide the fact, it bent the facts because it
believed in the other way.
>That's 200 years of false information that a majority believed was tru, and back
>then you would have likely believed that too.
your point?
>I'll let you all in on a little secret.... Gainz winning a world tournament does
>not make his statements all of a sudden more right. If I was objective and I
>saw this, I'd say that those who did believe him all of a sudden were just
>followers who where the type of people who only like the local sports team when
>they're winning.
as matter of fact, if he did win a world tournament, he WILL be right.
that's the act of proving his words, and that's what we want him to do in
ECC4.
>He can be the most skillful SF player in the world and still be wrong on what he
>posts.
then he's a liar. but i'd think he's not. he's just a misinformed kid,
who's too sturborn for his good.
>> <snip>
>But he commited no crime. This is a NG, not a trial. OK is different from
>understanding. All assholes, I'm not saying you JB, that I've met have had
>family problems. If it wasn't for this, me knowing that, I would probably be a
>lot harder to them, but I feel compasion for them so I cut them some slack.
nobody here's punishing him of anything. we just hope he will either prove
himself, or go away, or be more coherent.
>"JB bothers me. I'll flame him. Though I know from experience will not make him
>leave. He might even reply back. I'll do it anyway."
no, more like, no he's wrong. let's correct him. wait he doesn't listen.
this is getting me impatient. now he's insulting me. THAT's when the
flaming comes in. repeat the process five times, and then you start having
people who will just flame the boy.
>
>So far I have read throught 75 of JBGains most recnt posts to this NG and can
>not find evidence of the guy he is said to be. I also read 21 of thr 45 SF2
>thread and my oppinion on that is that it wasn't his fault.
>Hear is a brief listing..
<snip>
you didn't read earlier stuff.
1)JB claims CC's and parries are not overpowered
2)JB claims Dhalsim is worst in WW
3)JB, out of blue, insults this poster asking question about infinites
4)People asks him to come to EEC4
4)JB refuses without appearent reason
5)JB calls SF players geeks with greasy faces with no dates
6)JB says he will be tapping some ass
7)Then he reveals that he hasn't played SF for a year.
see how this goes?
>B) Everyone is allowed to make mistakes. In fact, you should make as many
>mistakes as possible while you're young. It's the best time to do it. Because if
>you're not trying, you're not living.
yes, eveyone is allowed to make mistakes.
what you are not allowed to do is: insult people, bug them, and then not
listen.
>
--
sol t kim
Chun Li <jac...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
>On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
>
>> In article <Pine.SOL.3.96.990413...@ux4.cso.uiuc.edu>,
>> Chun Li <jac...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
>If Splash isn't that good why did I keep Splashing you and sol and keep
>do low fierce.
hey, Jack, not fair! that was, like our second time playin A3!
>By the way wanna go to SJG after May 11, the day my summer vacation
>starts?
shaun will be gone. i donno when UC summer break is, but i'll likely to
stay in Chicago..
--
Chun Li
to go. But maybe by the time we go, SF3:3S will be out already.
sol t kim
Chocobo <cho...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Chun Li wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
>
>against, but the splash is not such a great move in Alpha 3, not like it was in
>A2 anyway.
>
i donno. in a2, there were actually air defense moves that beat it (flash
kick, ect)..and i'm still not used to this A3 notion of "jab and short for
air defense, DP and flash kick for ground combo" system. besides, if you
weren't impeccible with the timing of splash+low jab+spd, you can get
CC'ed between every step.
--
Wenchi Liao
sol t kim <sol...@midway.uchicago.edu> wrote:
>In article <37137D80...@mindspring.com>,
>Chocobo <cho...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>Chun Li wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
>>
>>I don't know about the match you're talking about or the people you played
>>against, but the splash is not such a great move in Alpha 3, not like it was in
>>A2 anyway.
>>
>
>i donno. in a2, there were actually air defense moves that beat it (flash
>kick, ect)..and i'm still not used to this A3 notion of "jab and short for
>air defense, DP and flash kick for ground combo" system. besides, if you
Do both. Charge down, stand and jab, 2in1 the roundhouse flash kick. Works
with standing strong, and I guess standing forward.
WL
Chocobo
> > The splash is all right, but it's not like A2 where it beats almost everything. His
> > jumping fierce is a lot better. The punch button lariat sucks... the kick button lariat
> > has some uses. It's a near perfect air defense against jumping attacks... but if
> > someone knows you always lariat, they can jump in and block, and then hit you with a
> > sweep or super. That's not exactly common, but I'm just saying the lariat isn't
> > perfect. His level 3 airthrow super is a pretty good move, but unless your opponent
> > likes to jump around all day, you probably won't be able to land it. The best Zangief
> > is V-ism, because he can at least get in occasionally. Jumpin VC and then chain into
> > SPD gives him a slight chance.
> >
> >
> >
> I don't even bother playing A2 Zangier....A3 Zangief is better. I can
> back up.
A2 Zangief was the fifth or sixth best character.
> I am here to claim Zangief is just located at where he
> is supposed to be--middle tier. He shouldn't be lowered. I can back it
> up. I know how worthy I am as a SF player in this group. I know who I
> can destroy and who destroy me. Also, I don't say silly stuff since I am
> well-educated....
Every character I listed beats him solidly, and some of the remaining characters can compete
with him. He has the same problem Birdie had in A2, he has almost nothing that will beat
turtles.
James Margaris
>
>>Einstein was right for a while before it was proven, relativity.
>
>What are you talking about? be specific. Many people thought he was right,
>and THEN he was proven. Einstein was neither right nor wrong before he was
>proven.
Huh? Since when are things only right or wrong when proven. Are you saying
that in 3000 BC "the sun is the center of the solar system was not wrong? How
odd...
Thing about it this way: You can only really prove something if it is already
correct, no? Therefore, everything that has been "proven" was correct before
the proof came out, or else no proof could be made.
Let us not also forget that "proofs" are highly fallible. People have "proved"
some pretty interesting things over time, including the existence of ESP, the
notion that intelligence is directly proportional to brain mass, etc.
James M
James Margaris
>The American Heritage College Dictionary:
>
>Triangle: 1) The plane figure formed by connecting three points not in a
>straight line by straight line segments; a three sided polygon.
>
>Plane: 1)A surface containing all the straight lines that connect any two
> points
>on it. 2) A flat or level surface.
>
Not to get too off topic here, but I wouldn't go looking through the American
Heritage Dictionary to find high level math. Half of upper level math is
learning that lower level math was a gross simplification. A few facts of math
you will probably find contradicted in a dictionary:
Parallel lines can meet.
Triangles can have less than 180 degrees (or maybe more, I forget)
RIght angles are not always 90 degrees
Straight lines can cross more than once.
A straight line can cross itself more than once
etc etc.
James M
elizabeth & chris
Chocobo wrote:
>
> Most of the rankings in that magazine were a joke... just random crap made
> up by one guy. Someone had X-Adon as #2, for instance.
>
> >
Time for blame/credit.
North Miami - Nelson Santamaria, Victor Olivares, Angel Mateo,
Alex "Juni"
East Coast - Todd Dwyer, Ric Collins
Midwest - Alex Gilliam (Excuse me for sounding like a troll... This was
the most fouled up of the lists. Statistically speaking, it was probably
because only one person did this list. This was also the XAdon is #2
behind Rolento list. What, did they just look for some kid in an arcade
named Alex? :P)
South Miami - Robert Cantillo, Juan "Chaka" Fernandez, Johan Palacios
Tips & Tricks Staff - My guess is Jason Wilson and Pat Reynolds.
AZ - Geoff Arnold, Joe Jennings
West Coast - Joey Cuellar, Alex Valle, James Romedy, Bob Painter - all
from the top 16 of USA vs. Japan. This is the list that has Zangief at
20, R. Mika dead last, Dan at 23, but the top 5 are Akuma, Ryu, Rolento,
Dhalsim, and Gen. The editor's list has these five at the top (not in
the same order) and so does N. Miami.
A mixed bag, as usual.
Chris
robo...@my-dejanews.com
> >
> >
> > > Air throw, with Zangief? That doesn't really work too well. Who else beats
> > > Zangief? Well, there's Ryu, Ken, Akuma
Air throws don't work when your character doesn't jump. Not jumping in on
people is a pretty good way to attack in A3, I've noticed.
> > Zangief is born to beat shoto, period. At least my Zangief is.
>
> I know this is really oversimplifying it, but they have fireballs and dragon
punches...
> so they win. How can Zangief get close enough to do anything?
I don't know how Jack plays Zangief, but when I play, you have to know when
to green hand, s.fierce, or lariat. Don't green hand when you're in close,
you'll get combo'd. The s.fierce is awesome b/c it picks people out of the
air as they try to jump, if they don't flip or if they land flat, Zangief is
in perfect position to j.fierce, unless Z barely gets them w/the s.fierce.
The lariat is also a truly formidable weapon. It must be done late, on some
characters, like the smaller ones, Z can get three hits. It seems that
jugggled hits do more damage. If Z is not in position to lariat, then the
s.jab works fine. It's a very bad idea to jump in on Zangief. Plus, if I'm
anywhere near SPD range, I'll SPD. Same w/anyone who can do it. A3 Zangief
seems to be more SPD happy than any previous counterparts (or maybe I'm just
that much better now at hitting the SPD.) On many occasions, I've SPD'd thru
combos (or linked moves).
Right now, I admit my comp sucks ass. But, these are some things that I can
point out. Ryu is much better at beating Zangief than Ken. Ken can't
wake-up to save his life. He also can't lay the fb trap like Ryu and he
doesn't have that f+forward which is so awesome at stuffing Zangief's moves.
Dan is good at stopping Zangief w/his s.short and his s.forward. Go ahead
and laugh, but I'm willing to try out my V-Dan on any Zangief. Zangief is
going to want to come in on Dan, and I'll let him. I'll just stuff every one
of Zangie'f normals and he'll eat gale kicks out of the air or V-combos.
> >
> > >Gen, Rolento,
> >
> > Punch Lariat beats Rolento's air jump. I play Rolento too and my friend's
> > Zangief destroys my Rolento the same way I destroy his Rolento with
> > Zangief.
I'm not sure about Gen. There's one person who whoops up w/Gen, but loses to
Zangief. So, I won't comment. He's also the same person who plays Rolento.
While I can also beat the air jump, I always get sucked into combos, so I
don't win too often.
> Why is Rolento jumping at Zangief? That should never happen. It's not safe
for either
> one of them to jump. Zangief has to chase Rolento on the ground, while
Rolento throws
> knives, uses low fierce, and flies off the wall if he happens to get
cornered. Zangief
> can never catch Rolento.
This is how I get sucked into combos.
> > >Karin,
> >
> > Theoretically Karin should whoop Zangief (standing Fierce and huge air
> > throw range). But I just destroy'em anyway.
SPD beats anything Karin has. I'm never jumping in on Karin, so it won't
matter. Just keep walking in w/s.fierce, or green hand, and some low
attacks. Make Karin jump at you. Anytime she tries to attack after a blocked
attack (especially the green hand) SPD her. Eventually, they'll catch on and
not attack. Fine. Eventually, they'll be pushed into the corner. It's over
after that.
> > >Sakura,
> >
> > I admit Sakura whooped Zangief back to A2, but this is A3.
>
> Sakura is almost as good in A3 as she was in A2... Zangief still can't get
close to
> her.
No comment. She's too good w/that stupid hk of hers; it pushes Zangief too
far away and it lasts too long. She kills him in the air, IIRC. Plus, if
you're a master at her fb's, Zangief will never get close. It's easier for
her to release an fb then it is for Zangief to green hand properly. Trying
to lariat thru the fb's is hard b/c she can always attack if you lariat too
early. I always hope that I can catch her off guard and lay on the pressure
w/the j.fierces.
> >
> > >Chun Li,
> > Only X has a tiny chance to beat Splash. Chun Li can't air throw Gief.
> > Also Lariat beats spinning bird kick--3 hits! VC? what VC? fireball?
> > Cornering Gief = free FAB.
No one plays Chun-li here. No comment.
> > >Sodom
> >
> > How? that power bomb VC? Never....My Z just jumps around against Sodom and
> > how do u catch me? Also Lariat beats Jitti
>
> Well, Sodom doesn't destroy Zangief like the rest of the people in this list,
I admit.
> But you really can't do anything about his free 30% damage VC.
I've never experienced the VC, and I would like to :) Other than that, Sodom
can't gain position on Zangief b/c if Zangief blocks anything, it's SPD or
counter attack. The best that Sodom can do is poke and play keep away, which
he isn't bad at. However, it's harder for Sodom to do this than it is for
Zangief to eventually corner him.
> >
> > >Cody,
> > Unless I get hit by that ridiculus 40-hit X-ism super, there's no way Cody
> > beats Zangief.
Cody bites. There was one guy, once, that I saw who had the best Cody I've
seen (not saying much), but he soon b/c overwhelved w/the splash. I'm telling
you, the s.fierce is good b/c it smacks that rock back in Cody's face. Plus,
if you can convince Cody to pick up the knife, it's all over.
> > >and Bison all kick his ass.
> >
Now here's the thing. I use to think that my Bison was awesome. But, I'm
just plain awful in A3. Every Zangief kicks the living crap out of me. In
fact, almost every character beats the living crap out of me (except Adon and
Dan) when I play Bison. So, I'm not commenting.
sol t kim
James Margaris <js...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>In article <FA5D5...@midway.uchicago.edu>, sol...@midway.uchicago.edu (sol t kim) wrote:
>
>>
>>>Einstein was right for a while before it was proven, relativity.
>>
>>What are you talking about? be specific. Many people thought he was right,
>>and THEN he was proven. Einstein was neither right nor wrong before he was
>>proven.
>
>Huh? Since when are things only right or wrong when proven. Are you saying
>that in 3000 BC "the sun is the center of the solar system was not wrong? How
>odd...
alright, Einstein's theory of Relativity is just that. a theory. as long
as evidence supports it, it is considered "right." but as soon as one
piece of evidence is discovered that disproves it, it immediately becoms
wrong. The same goes with the facts.
>Thing about it this way: You can only really prove something if it is already
>correct, no? Therefore, everything that has been "proven" was correct before
>the proof came out, or else no proof could be made.
no. lot of times, it has something to with lack of scientific knowledge.
it used to be true that there were only about 6 planets in the solar
system, because that's all the eyes could see. thanks to advanced
mathmatics and optic science, this was disproven. Newton's theory of
mechanics stood the test of time for about 300 years untill Einstein
proved it incorrect. no humanly perceived "fact" can be immune from this
possibility. it is "proven" and thus "right" within our realm of knowledge
and understanding. nothing more. it's a humbling thought really.
but this only really applies to science. when you say "i am alive" it
doesn't mean it's "wrong" because 100 years later you'll be dead. common
sense always should be consideration when talking about common everyday
things =)
>Let us not also forget that "proofs" are highly fallible. People have "proved"
>some pretty interesting things over time, including the existence of ESP, the
>notion that intelligence is directly proportional to brain mass, etc.
i agree. although i want to know how the hell they "proved" the brain mass
thingy.
>
>James M
--
sol t kim
his hope on that game...i thought it might be okay untill i read that they
furthur destroyed Alex with his delay on hyperbomb...(gee people could
still just jump on the super with good reaction. what are they doing?)
too early to speak, but oh well...
In article <Pine.SOL.3.96.99041...@ux11.cso.uiuc.edu>,
--
James Margaris
>In article <7f0kf6$g...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>,
>James Margaris <js...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>>Thing about it this way: You can only really prove something if it is already
>>correct, no? Therefore, everything that has been "proven" was correct before
>>the proof came out, or else no proof could be made.
>
>no. lot of times, it has something to with lack of scientific knowledge.
>it used to be true that there were only about 6 planets in the solar
>system, because that's all the eyes could see.
Huh? There *were not* "about six" planets in the solar system. Just because
they thought there were six doesn't mean there really were. Had they the
technology they would have seen that there were more than six. There were the
same number then as there are now.
Say that I am an idiot, and I believe that 2+2 = 6, or that Vega beats Zangief
for free with the wall dive. (heh) Gee, if I'm an idiot and believe those does
that make them true? Even if no-one will dispute my Vega-Zan theory does that
make me right? Of course not.
To say that reality is entirely subjective is a pretty absurd statement. It
*could* very well be true. Just like this could all be a strange dream, other
humans could be robots, I could be a brain in a vat sitting on a shelf on
Planet X, etc. All of these are possible, but none of them are any more likely
than any other, none is provable, and believing them gets us nowhere at all.
Do chairs exist? If you answer "only if we believe they do" I will gladly beat
you to death with the leg of the chair and as you die you can feel free to
keep believing that you are very much alive.
Our perception of reality is not perfect (example: notice how the moon looks
so big?) but we should assume that out perceptions do basically reflect
reality, because
a) It is the most logical choice
b) Believing anything else makes the pursuit of science pointless. In fact, it
makes *everything,* including philosophy, pointless. Why bother eating?
Perhaps "food" is just a mental construct, after all.
>mathmatics and optic science, this was disproven. Newton's theory of
>mechanics stood the test of time for about 300 years untill Einstein
>proved it incorrect. no humanly perceived "fact" can be immune from this
>possibility. it is "proven" and thus "right" within our realm of knowledge
>and understanding. nothing more. it's a humbling thought really.
Certainly the human ability is limited, but nontheless I would argue
that there are truths to the universe, whether we can prove them, explain
them, grasp them or sense them. The absolute "truth" of something is separate
from what we believe to be true, BUT there is a correlation. Newton was wrong,
but he was a lot *more* right than the people before him. Science approaches
the truth, whether it ever gets there or not.
[clip]
>>some pretty interesting things over time, including the existence of ESP, the
>>notion that intelligence is directly proportional to brain mass, etc.
>
>i agree. although i want to know how the hell they "proved" the brain mass
>thingy.
Typical of much bad science (just about all social science or any science with
an agenda) the researchers were motivated by the desire to show that
Caucasions are a superior race. As with all but the most strict science, if
you set out looking for something you can find it. I believe they filled the
skulls of different corpses with marbles and determined that the smarter
people could fit more marbles in their skulls. (No, I am not making this up)
How they determined who the "smarter" people were I have no idea.
Sigh...in so much of "science" (and philosophy for that matter) the
researchers, instead of searching for the truth, search for evidence to back
up their own preconcieved opinions. Not surprisingly the people motivated
to research something are the people who already have a strong opinion on
the subject. Don't even get me started on Women's Studies, which has the balls
to state up front that they are governed a certain political agenda regardless
of actual truth.
James M
Julien B Beasley
js...@cornell.edu (James Margaris) wrote:
> >The American Heritage College Dictionary:
> >
> >Triangle: 1) The plane figure formed by connecting three points not in a
> >straight line by straight line segments; a three sided polygon.
> >
> >Plane: 1)A surface containing all the straight lines that connect any two
> > points
> >on it. 2) A flat or level surface.
> >
>
> Not to get too off topic here, but I wouldn't go looking through the American
> Heritage Dictionary to find high level math. Half of upper level math is
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> learning that lower level math was a gross simplification. A few facts of math
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> you will probably find contradicted in a dictionary:
AAARRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
> Parallel lines can meet.
> Triangles can have less than 180 degrees (or maybe more, I forget)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Thanks for the tip, sensei!
> RIght angles are not always 90 degrees
> Straight lines can cross more than once.
> A straight line can cross itself more than once
> etc etc.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry. This sounds like something written by a
guy who has read one too many Piers Anthony novels...
> James M
Stop it! STOP IT! STOP IT!
Don't... talk... about.. math...
Just... shut... up....
You-just-don't-know-what-you-are-talking-about
I know you think you do, James. I really do.
But don't bring your pseudo-knowledge into the realm of math.
How much "upper-level math" did you study, James? I'm sure you think vector
calculus and group theory is upper level math.
My god Ming was so right about you.
Julien
(BS Mathematics, MIT)
PS: For your pet project, I suggest you take a look at "alien space ninja", a
mac fighting game written by Phil Stroffolino, a much better man than you will
ever be.
PPS: Yes James, I read your other little post about science too
(unfortunately). You do such a great job of ridiculing yourself that I find
myself hard pressed to elaborate. That's the thing about you James. Most
dorks need their own idiocy pointed out to them for comic effect. But you're
sort of dork-in-one. One gets to read, shake their head in disbelief, AND
laugh at your stupidity, all without having to press 'n'!
--
It may take a litte courage to ask your doctor about Erectile
Dysfunction.
But everything worthwhile usually does.
Stuart White
: js...@cornell.edu (James Margaris) wrote:
:> Parallel lines can meet.
:> Triangles can have less than 180 degrees (or maybe more, I forget)
:> Straight lines can cross more than once.
:> A straight line can cross itself more than once
:> etc etc.
:
: I don't know whether to laugh or cry. This sounds like something written by a
: guy who has read one too many Piers Anthony novels...
: Stop it! STOP IT! STOP IT!
: Don't... talk... about.. math...
: Just... shut... up....
:
: You-just-don't-know-what-you-are-talking-about
I think he is talking about non-Euclidean geometries - in which these
things do occur, IIRC. 'Course, you probably know more about this than me,
but I think in some non-Euclidean geometries parallel lines intersect,
lines cross themselves, and triangles add up to less or more than 180
degrees. This isn't something I know alot about, tho, so if I have it
wrong please correct me.
Ace-ISM
Chun Li <jac...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:Pine.SOL.3.96.99041...@ux8.cso.uiuc.edu...
> > > On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
> > >
> > > > In article
> > > > Chun Li <jac...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> > > > >Splash is just THAT good. There is no way to air throw
Zangief....and
> > > > >IN THIS GAME IF YOU DON'T AIR THROW YOU CAN'T WIN. Or, even worse,
people
> > > >
> > > > Then why do so many characters beat up on Zangief? And why
isn't
> > > > he top tier?
> > >
> > > You should switch your playing style when facing top tiers. Don't
just
> > > Splash all the time. AIR THROW'em. Ok, tell me who beats Zangief
beside
> > > X-Dhalsim and V-Vega!
> >
beats
> > Zangief? Well, there's Ryu, Ken, Akuma
>
>
>
> Punch Lariat beats Rolento's air jump. I play Rolento too and my friend's
> Zangief destroys my Rolento the same way I destroy his Rolento with
> Zangief.
>
>
> Theoretically Karin should whoop Zangief (standing Fierce and huge air
> throw range). But I just destroy'em anyway.
Theoretically *and* practically, Karin whoops Zangief =)) I admit before I
used to have trouble with Zangief in my early Karin-playing days, but now he
is easier to beat than shotos.
1) Zangief has absolutely *no* air game with Karin. That standing fierce
destroys every single air move of poor Z's. And her Air-throws are also
great anti-air at close range. Don't forget Kick super with A/Z Karin.
2) That leaves Zangief with a footsie game where he somehow has to manage to
get in close to do his damage. But Karin's pokes are *better* than
Zangief's. Her standing forward out-prioritises just about everything (if
not everything) that Zangief has in the ground move department. Even his
standing short! Her sweep has long range and junping straight-up roundhouse
is a great keep-away move (if Z tries to lariet in when she does this,
Karin's foot smacks him on the head). It's also good at pushing away a
jumping-in Zangief.
3) V-Karin has even easier time of killing Zangief with her ridiculously
damaging combos.
Example VC: Zangief jumps in, Karin activates VC: Anti-air move XX juggle
with fierce palmstrike XX rekka-ken (which whiffs) -> palmstrike finisher
XX palmstrike XX rekka-ken (which whiffs) -> palmstike finisher (repeat till
corner), Fierce Palmstrike * @.
The above VC can be modified and start it off with either some cancelled
ground moves instead of the anti-air, or straight off from a successful
jump-in after activating a VC. You can also activate VC, overhead spin-kick
(towards + forward kick) XX into whatever VC you want.
Later on when I have some time, I'll record some of these in a movie so you
can see how it goes ...
Anyways, if the Karin players can't beat your Zangief over there, it just
goes to show the skill level of the Karin players. And, err, I seem to
remember you (?) mentioning that you just SPD them after blocked Rekkas. Now
I *know* they aren't good Karin players =P. Anyways they probably just need
to know her tricks to Anti-Zangief...
And, um, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Karin is one of the top-tier,
just saying she definitely beats Zangief.
As for the below statement,
> I destroy all Vega players I have met cause Vega
> has small air throw range.
What the heck? Vega's KK air-throw is ridiculously good. High priority and
good range. It's one of the best air-throws in the game (along with Karin
and some others I forget right now =P). It's one of Vega's main anti-air
options. His PP air-throw however, sucks Donkey's thingamajigs =P. KK
air-throw all the way!
--
Ace-ISM
http://i.am/karinsan
"Someone of your breeding could never stand a chance against me!"
-
James Margaris
>In article <7f0k58$g...@newsstand.cit.cornell.edu>,
> js...@cornell.edu (James Margaris) wrote:
[clip]
>> Not to get too off topic here, but I wouldn't go looking through the American
>> Heritage Dictionary to find high level math. Half of upper level math is
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>> learning that lower level math was a gross simplification. A few facts of
> math
>^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> you will probably find contradicted in a dictionary:
>
>AAARRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!
>
>> Parallel lines can meet.
>> Triangles can have less than 180 degrees (or maybe more, I forget)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Thanks for the tip, sensei!
>> RIght angles are not always 90 degrees
>> Straight lines can cross more than once.
>> A straight line can cross itself more than once
>> etc etc.
>
>I don't know whether to laugh or cry. This sounds like something written by a
>guy who has read one too many Piers Anthony novels...
>
>> James M
>
>Stop it! STOP IT! STOP IT!
>Don't... talk... about.. math...
>Just... shut... up....
>
>You-just-don't-know-what-you-are-talking-about
>I know you think you do, James. I really do.
>But don't bring your pseudo-knowledge into the realm of math.
>How much "upper-level math" did you study, James? I'm sure you think vector
>calculus and group theory is upper level math.
Care to elaborate at all on how anything I said was incorrect? Hmm? I didn't
think so. Yes, triangles do not have to be 180 degrees. Look up "defect" next
time you wander near a math book.
All of the above statements are 100% accurate and I'd be glad to direct you to
various sources that will show you exactly how, once again, I am right and you
are wrong.
Know what a geodesic on a cone is? Know what happens to geodesics when the
cone angle becomes less than 90 degrees?
If you would like to launch any *specific* criticism, please feel free. But
once again you will find that everything I have said is completly correct.
>
>My god Ming was so right about you.
>
>Julien
>(BS Mathematics, MIT)
Oh....wow. A BS in Math...I'm truly astounded at your amazing
accomplishment...maybe you should have snuck a geometry class in there
somewhere...
>
>PPS: Yes James, I read your other little post about science too
>(unfortunately). You do such a great job of ridiculing yourself that I find
>myself hard pressed to elaborate.
You *always* find yourself hard-pressed to elaborate because you are just an
empty headed idiot. Not *once* in any of our flames have you managed to come
up with *one single* substantial point that wasn't shot to hell. So now you
don't even try anymore, instead making vague indefensible comments.
Brilliant.
So MIT is just handing out diplomas these days I guess...how sad.
James M
James Margaris
>Julien B Beasley wrote:
>: js...@cornell.edu (James Margaris) wrote:
[clip]
>: I don't know whether to laugh or cry. This sounds like something written by a
>: guy who has read one too many Piers Anthony novels...
>:
>: Stop it! STOP IT! STOP IT!
>: Don't... talk... about.. math...
>: Just... shut... up....
>:
>: You-just-don't-know-what-you-are-talking-about
>
>I think he is talking about non-Euclidean geometries - in which these
>things do occur, IIRC. 'Course, you probably know more about this than me,
>but I think in some non-Euclidean geometries parallel lines intersect,
>lines cross themselves, and triangles add up to less or more than 180
>degrees. This isn't something I know alot about, tho, so if I have it
>wrong please correct me.
One of these things is not like the other...
You have answered the million dollar question Mr. White. Unlike Julien, who
would rather wave his degree in our face, you have resorted to actually
showing that you *know* something. Congrats.
James M
JB Gainz
You must have JB confused with me.. JB GAINZ. I did not say this.
>2)JB claims Dhalsim is worst in WW
I believe Dhalsim is.. never said it was fact. Another poster said he was the
best in WW and he said it was a fact. I am not the only one who disagrees with
this, so why don't you get on his case
>3)JB, out of blue, insults this poster asking question about infinites
This is so untrue. I told some guy that there are not infinities in EX.. and
it ended with that. Nothing of an insult. Suddenly a poster flamed me
claiming I was bother him with my posts. None of my previous posts were
directed to him.. so he started it. He used the infinitie thing as some sort
of reasoning.. apparently good enough reasoning to get others like soltkim on
his side. I pissed the guy off (wish I really regret, because he is relentless
in his trolling). I pointed out the fact which was very evident.. he did not
know what an infinity was.. after that... things got out of hand.
>4)People asks him to come to EEC4
>4)JB refuses without appearent reason
I had good reason. I don't care about it. Do I need a better reason? Frankly
my weekends are usually much to busy with what I consider to be more
productive. In fact this weekend I plan on raising money for diabetes research
and a few weeks after hosting a competition for local highschools. I do these
sorts of things on my weekend and find them more important than video game
tourneys. Maybe I am wrong and the tourneys are more rewarding, but I really
don't care. I feel what I do on my weekends to be important to me and others.
>5)JB calls SF players geeks with greasy faces with no dates
First of all, I never said all SF players were geeks and greasy face.. you are
twisting my words. I said it is possible for some people to fit under this
catagory.. and if you fit under the catagory sorry for offending you.
>6)JB says he will be tapping some ass
Yes I did, so what? Is there a law against this in your state or country?
>7)Then he reveals that he hasn't played SF for a year.
Wrong!!!!! Most recently I played SF over the Spring Break for many hours. I
have not played SF at the arcade in a year.
These are the type of posts that really make me wonder why I try to reason with
some of the people on this board. This poster obviously has something against
me for no good reason, because I have never held conversation with him/her.
Then there are the type who flame those who reconize I am not as bad as the
"legend". Someone saying "you must be a troll for sideing with JB GAINZ". And
I suppose this makes that poster a good person for saying such a statement.
The twisting of my words is how things have gotten out of hand with me...
people should understand this before posting.. if you really care at all.
I now understand there is noway people are going to try to reason with me. I
could apologize and take back what I said (even the things that people made up
I said ). This will not make a difference for the fact that this is a an
internet news group and people can treat others how ever they want. They can
believe whoever they want and side with whoever they want. No one has to
believe the truth, because they will never see the face of the person they
flame. For many this is a blessing.... for me it is a pain. I feel sorry for
those of you who have flamed me without good cause. There are those who I have
counter flamed and this only made situations worse... this was wrong of me.
They are the only ones I can understand being angry at me.. as they should
understand me being angry at them for flaming me in the first place.
Someone kindly asked me to leave. Well, I will not. I will just not respond
to the ignorance of others. Lately this board has not had anything interesting
to discuss (which explains the rise in my "fan mail"), so I will probably not
post as much. Those who have trolled me... you win. Take this victory and be
proud, however it is worth to you.
JB GAINZ
WhoaMoses
Beef
> >1)JB claims CC's and parries are not overpowered
>
> You must have JB confused with me.. JB GAINZ. I did not say this.
>
No, he's not. He's saying JB says x. You, JB Gainz are claiming you
didn't say this. This is true. JB did.
The whole post goes on saying JB this and that. You are mistaking
yourself for JB. Assuming you aren't JB and that if you are, you forgot
which account you were using.
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we practice to decieve."
Assuming you are one and the same, you're getting yourself caught up in
your own lies. Give it a rest if you are. Half of us don't even give a
shit who you are or aren't as long as the posting's true or useful.
Mark
Poster and Speaker of Useless
Things, Holder of Big Sigs and Milwaukee Man
Extrordinaire.
SF Code v5.0
{K(SFA2)+>++ D(I)++ Y(I)+>++ All(EX+@)+}
[ac ch- cn c+ cc+ 2+ g m+ n+:- o++ os+ p
r(++ARK) +s+ sp- st+ ta t tm-- th- tr--:+ v++]
cammy...@my-dejanews.com
Chun Li <jac...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
>
> Jack Lin aka Zangief104
>
> Hey cutie, never go to arcade with your boyfriend, unless you wanna see
> him get whooped.....painfully whooped
I'll keep that in mind. ^_^
> Zangief is born to beat shoto, period. At least my Zangief is.
Um... that really says that your competition doesn't seem to be all that
wonderful... A good V-Gouki should destroy Gief. Air fireball, walk in,
throw. Demon Roll VC. Standing Fierce VC. Ryu's got a pretty nasty couple of
VCs too... plenty of guard-crushers, especially if you pick Z-Gief, since
he's got less Guard Meter than if he were X-gief.
> >Gen, Rolento,
>
> Punch Lariat beats Rolento's air jump. I play Rolento too and my friend's
> Zangief destroys my Rolento the same way I destroy his Rolento with
> Zangief.
So why have jump with Gen?? Sneak in, chain combo. I'm not much for Gen, so
someone else ought to say something about this. As for Rolento... You are
assuming and awful lot. If the only thing Rolento does is jump in, there's
something wrong with the guy behind the joystick...
> >Karin,
>
> Theoretically Karin should whoop Zangief (standing Fierce and huge air
> throw range). But I just destroy'em anyway.
Air throws aren't everything... The main thing is that I think your
competition isn't quite that good. If you think someone SHOULD beat your
character with <insert name here> and yet they don't, I think the problem is
that your competition isn't good enough. It's tournament time! ^_^
> >Sakura,
>
> I admit Sakura whooped Zangief back to A2, but this is A3.
Sakura's pretty damn good now!! (She was pretty good before, but now she's
even better). Have you played any good Sak players?
> >Chun Li,
> Only X has a tiny chance to beat Splash. Chun Li can't air throw Gief.
> Also Lariat beats spinning bird kick--3 hits! VC? what VC? fireball?
> Cornering Gief = free FAB.
Um... not quite. Have you heard of 'Aqua Chun'? Chun's jumping short beats the
splash. It beats the lariat. It beats Gief. ^_^
> >Cammy, Juli, Juni
>
> that's rite, CAMMY! but i am sure about Juli and Juni.
Cammy is da BOMB!! Honestly speaking, Cammy's got a good chance. Gief can't
get in, Gief can't do much. Cammy wins. Gief messes up a lariat, maximum
cammy/90% V-combo. If you play against her, you'd better make DAMN well sure
you don't make any mistakes... else I will walk in with my super-ground speed
and V-combo the snot out of you.
> >Sodom
>
> How? that power bomb VC? Never....My Z just jumps around against Sodom and
> how do u catch me? Also Lariat beats Jitti
That's 'Jitte'. Hmm... Have you played against a good 'Earth Sodom' player?
> >Cody,
> Unless I get hit by that ridiculus 40-hit X-ism super, there's no way Cody
> beats Zangief.
Cody's got some pretty ridiculous V-combos too...
> >Guy
>
> Guy should beat Zangief but I don't face any tough Guys.
Again... competition level...
> >and Bison all kick his ass.
>
> I don't lose Bison but my Bison destroys gief.
Competition level again
> > > I destroy all Vega players I have met cause Vega
> > > has small air throw range. Dhalsim....fuck that, that's another story. I
> > > don't even try hard on beating Dhalsim. I just simply put another two
> > > quarters and pick any-Blanka/X-DeeJay/X-Rolento to beat 'sim's crap.
Blanka beats Dhalsim? O_O Now *this* I have to see! ^^;;;;
> Ok if Splash is "not that great", what about Lariat and Lv. kick super?
Lariat isn't invincible... I've been knocked out of a lariat plenty of times.
I even think Adon's jag kick beats it...
Mr. Lin, please don't automatically assume that everything around the world
is like it is at your local arcade. Sure, there's a lot to be said for
Gief... he's really good. But the problem is, he's not invincible. There are
plenty of ways to take him down... if your competition isn't good enough, you
will win. This was one of the principle arguments against JB/LazyJae. Please
don't follow that route. ^_^
PS. I'm having some problems with my ISP... else I would have jumped into this
discussion long ago. ^_^
PPS. Isn't it funny? Something that started off topic somehow meandered its
way ON topic. ^_^
--Cammy, the isp-challenged Scrub
"O_O;;"
"Studying hard? Hardly studying!"
"Get me off what?"
sol t kim
*aggitated*
In article <19990414193455...@ng-fx1.aol.com>,
JB Gainz <jbg...@aol.com> wrote:
>>1)JB claims CC's and parries are not overpowered
>
>You must have JB confused with me.. JB GAINZ. I did not say this.
JB said they were not overpowered, you posted reply saying "yeah, people
bithch too much about that".
>>2)JB claims Dhalsim is worst in WW
>
>I believe Dhalsim is.. never said it was fact.
the tone you said it with was arrogant and aggitating. people haven't
pointed that out to you? you didn't listen/
Another poster said he was the
>best in WW and he said it was a fact. I am not the only one who disagrees with
>this, so why don't you get on his case
best, second best...acceptable. the worst..not.
>>3)JB, out of blue, insults this poster asking question about infinites
>
>This is so untrue. I told some guy that there are not infinities in EX.. and
>it ended with that. Nothing of an insult. Suddenly a poster flamed me
>claiming I was bother him with my posts.
read it back carefully at dejanews.com. it could be taken as insult. and
yes, (as many people pointed out) there is an infinite in EX.
>>4)People asks him to come to EEC4
>>4)JB refuses without appearent reason
>
>I had good reason. I don't care about it. Do I need a better reason? Frankly
>my weekends are usually much to busy with what I consider to be more
>productive. In fact this weekend I plan on raising money for diabetes research
>and a few weeks after hosting a competition for local highschools. I do these
>sorts of things on my weekend and find them more important than video game
>tourneys. Maybe I am wrong and the tourneys are more rewarding, but I really
>don't care. I feel what I do on my weekends to be important to me and others.
Fine, you don't care. why do you post here again? you spend many hours
posting about something you care nothing about?
>>5)JB calls SF players geeks with greasy faces with no dates
>
>First of all, I never said all SF players were geeks and greasy face.. you are
>twisting my words. I said it is possible for some people to fit under this
>catagory.. and if you fit under the catagory sorry for offending you.
read the last sentence. if you think such silliness will go unnoticed you
are really strange. go back and read your post again. i didn't twist your
words. they are not worth twisting.
>>6)JB says he will be tapping some ass
>
>Yes I did, so what? Is there a law against this in your state or country?
that would have given me an excuse to knock you off this NG. no. but read
it. does it sound pleasing and polite to you?
>>7)Then he reveals that he hasn't played SF for a year.
>
>Wrong!!!!! Most recently I played SF over the Spring Break for many hours. I
>have not played SF at the arcade in a year.
ah-ha. you said that in your later posts. what you originally said was
"i haven't even played SF for over an year anyway..ect.". you think
carefully when you write. by patching up your "mistakes" and "slips" again
and again, you reduce your credibility. and who do you play that with,
anyway? i can't imagine a serious SF competition happening in your house..
>These are the type of posts that really make me wonder why I try to
reason with
>some of the people on this board. This poster obviously has something against
>me for no good reason, because I have never held conversation with him/her.
okay, clearify. is "this poster" me? what have i said that offended you? i
haven't offended anybody in this NG as much as you did. keep taking things
personally? there's no reason for ANYBODY to flame you except your words.
we neither know your social background nor your voice nor your looks.
it's all in the words. read: be careful of what you write.
>The twisting of my words is how things have gotten out of hand with me...
>people should understand this before posting.. if you really care at all.
your words are not worth twisting. what you write sounds offensive to
many people.
>I said ). This will not make a difference for the fact that this is a an
>internet news group and people can treat others how ever they want. They can
>believe whoever they want and side with whoever they want. No one has to
>believe the truth, because they will never see the face of the person they
>flame.
you are assuming what others will do..and you know what? this is EXACTLY
what YOU are doing. you don't care what we say, we are not screaming in
your face.
>Someone kindly asked me to leave. Well, I will not. I will just not respond
>to the ignorance of others. Lately this board has not had anything interesting
>to discuss (which explains the rise in my "fan mail"), so I will probably not
>post as much. Those who have trolled me... you win. Take this victory and be
>proud, however it is worth to you.
peace of mind.
>JB GAINZ
--
JB Gainz
me no matter what I say.
example:
>>I believe Dhalsim is.. never said it was fact.
>
>the tone you said it with was arrogant and aggitating. people haven't
>pointed that out to you? you didn't listen/
>
> Another poster said he was the
>>best in WW and he said it was a fact. I am not the only one who disagrees
>with
>>this, so why don't you get on his case
>
>best, second best...acceptable. the worst..not.
Now I have said what I said was an opinion when the other guy said it was fact.
He was wrong.. I was not. Still you side with him...
This is one of many reasons I do not even try with you and why I have been
ignoring you...
I hope you take this and realize your posts are wothless to me. They are
partial and mean spirited... meaning they dont count for anything to the person
you direct it to.. which happens to be me. I hope you take this in
consideration when you post.. even you even care. Perhaps you just enjoy
venting and I am your favorite "ventee". I don't know and really don't care
at this point. Everyone else has moved on except you.... please for the sake
of not looking like a {insert insult} don't post about this silly subject.
I have to talk about one more thing
You wrote in reference to ECC4
Fine, you don't care. why do you post here again? you spend many hours posting
about something you care nothing about?
Many hours? What are you talking about? I made no more than 4 posts in
reference to the tournement. I am not the fasted typer, but it sure won't take
me 30mins let alone hours to type 4 posts... It is phases like this which
totally discredits anything you say to me... am I suppose to seriously listen
to you... I think you know by now.
JB GAINZ
Michael Basus
> >2)JB claims Dhalsim is worst in WW
>
> I believe Dhalsim is.. never said it was fact.
The point I believe people are raising is that you say something as opinion and don't
accept anyone else's input or opinion or -fact- on the matter. If you won't accept it,
don't post your opinions.
> In fact this weekend I plan on raising money for diabetes research
> and a few weeks after hosting a competition for local highschools.
What? What kind of bullshit is that? Do you expect anyone to believe this?
> >5)JB calls SF players geeks with greasy faces with no dates
>
> First of all, I never said all SF players were geeks and greasy face.. you are
> twisting my words. I said it is possible for some people to fit under this
> catagory..
You said "I don't want to go to the ECC4 to hang out with a bunch of geeks with greasy
faces and no dates" or something quite similar. That would be implying that the people
present at the ECC4, SF players, are greasy-faced geeks. No one's twisting your words.
You just don't seem to know how to use words properly. Who would ever say "I believe it
is possible for some people to fit under the category of geeks with greasy faces and no
dates". That's not saying anything at all.
> This poster obviously has something against
> me for no good reason, because I have never held conversation with him/her.
So people can't criticize you if they've never 'held conversation' with you? If they read
your posts, they're 'listening,' thus simulating a conversation between you and them. I
don't hold something personally against you. And I'm not just 'going w/ the flow' by
criticizing you. Just like the other poster, I'm tired of you going back on what you say
and trying to say you said something else. I'm hoping that you're not just someone who's
trying to incite anger on this board. I'd prefer having another poster around, instead of
just reading the same 10 - 12 people's posts all the time. Just don't lie, and be capable
of changing your opinions if someone shows you more than enough good reason to.
-Mike
Chun Li
> is like it is at your local arcade. Sure, there's a lot to be said for
> Gief... he's really good. But the problem is, he's not invincible. There are
> plenty of ways to take him down... if your competition isn't good enough, you
> will win. This was one of the principle arguments against JB/LazyJae. Please
> don't follow that route. ^_^
I told people that I am not here to claim Zangief is the top tier. I am
here to claim that Zangief deserves to be a middle tier when hearing
Chocobo whining that "Z should be a lower tier"....But all of you are like
trashing Zangief's winning possibility. You guys all Birdie-ize and
Dan-ize him....You think I don't know Akuma's VC and Rolento's poky? I do
all of them and destroy people with that....I just enjoy more when
destroying people with Zangief 'cause it's just fun when somebody was
SPDed and said "damn I should've jump away".....
Again, I never mentioned Splash/Lariat/Lv. 3 kick super is perfect or
anything....I am just here to defend my favorite character....Also my comp
isn't as good as California pro SF players, but they know what they are
doing.
JB Gainz
>> and a few weeks after hosting a competition for local highschools.
What? What kind of bullshit is that? Do you expect anyone to believe this?
LOL.. is it that hard to believe people do things that actually are more
important than games. I really don't care if anyone believes me. What I do
care is that the money goes to good use. Diabetes research has gone a long way
over the years and more money means more funds for treatment. Ah.. I am
lecturing about something people dont care about.. so I will just end it.
And this thing about me not listening to what people say.. what basis do you
have. I ammit there are people I will not listen to, but I do listen to the
advice of others. I just don't make a big post about it..... I AM LISTENING
TO...
That is just silly.
Is this the Dhalsim thing again? Jeez people let is go.
I read your post and you are another who changes phases as you want them to
be...
>don't hold something personally against you. And I'm not just 'going w/ the
>flow' by
>criticizing you.
Yes you are... you just don't want to ammit it.
>So people can't criticize you if they've never 'held conversation' with you?
There is criticize and flaming. People can do what they want... the question
is "Do they actually have good reason"? The answer is no.. just as you have no
reason for this biased post of yours.
>You said "I don't want to go to the ECC4 to hang out with a bunch of geeks
>with greasy
>faces and no dates"
This was not the phrase I used and you know it. First of all I said nothing
about people with no dates... every can find someone I believe. From this I
know that the phrase you used was something you made up or taken from the
twisted words of another.
Do you seriously take yourself to be somekind of impartial person from the
outside. You obviously are not. I know it and you know it. The ECC4 thing I
said really pissed you off and I apologize. I don't expect you to try to be
reasonable but I will try to be reasonable with you.. I can do that at least
JB GAINZ
robo...@my-dejanews.com
"Ace-ISM" <karink...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Chun Li <jac...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
> news:Pine.SOL.3.96.99041...@ux8.cso.uiuc.edu...
> > > > On Tue, 13 Apr 1999, Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > In article
> > > > > Chun Li <jac...@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
[Z vs. other players, minor analysis snipped]
> >
> > >Karin,
> >
> > Theoretically Karin should whoop Zangief (standing Fierce and huge air
> > throw range). But I just destroy'em anyway.
[snip]
> 1) Zangief has absolutely *no* air game with Karin. That standing fierce
> destroys every single air move of poor Z's. And her Air-throws are also
> great anti-air at close range. Don't forget Kick super with A/Z Karin.
That's fine. I still A3 should be played w/no one jumping anywhere. Jumping
seems to be a good way to get yourself combo'd.
> 2) That leaves Zangief with a footsie game where he somehow has to manage to
> get in close to do his damage. But Karin's pokes are *better* than
> Zangief's. Her standing forward out-prioritises just about everything (if
> not everything) that Zangief has in the ground move department. Even his
> standing short! Her sweep has long range and junping straight-up roundhouse
> is a great keep-away move (if Z tries to lariet in when she does this,
> Karin's foot smacks him on the head). It's also good at pushing away a
> jumping-in Zangief.
Are you sure about the s.short? Almost nothing beats Z's s.short, I don't use
it much b/c by the time I'm in range w/the s.short, I'm SPD-ing.
What about the s.fierce? If I'm not mistaken, it is the quickest and, at the
same time, the longest s.fierce move in the game. The s.fierce beats a lot
of moves in the game. It makes people scared to jump when they get popped
out of the air. Do you know what's a good technique if you can't connect the
s.fierce? I guarantee that at least 7 times out of 10 if Z throws a s.fierce
and it misses, the opponent will jump in, but it has to be a near miss. When
this happens, the character will get in close and try to combo but will be
too far away so will settle for just pushing Z further into the corner or
gaining position to set up some sort of trap. When this happens, the
opponent will attack. As soon as the opponent attacks, he is in SPD range
and will get sucked in. It should look like this: Z misses w/s.fierce,
opponent jumps in w/an attack, trying to get that fierce as it recoils,
opponent misses b/c the fierce recoils too quickly and opponent lands. As
opponent lands, Zangief SPDs. It's easy to tell when Zangief is too far away
to SPD, so it won't look like the opponent got sucked in from half way across
the screen. The best thing to do is hope that the opponent makes Zangief
block and then doesn't attack when he lands, but instead jumps straight up
and hopes that he has as good a rh as Karin or Blanka when they jump straight
up. Sooner or later opponents will stop jumping in and retreat into the
corner, where Zangief will surely have his way w/them.
What about the green hand? If Karin or anyone tries to do anything except
jump away from a blocked green hand, they're asking for a SPD.
[V-Karin analysis snipped, since I agree that V-Karin is a little harder to
beat]
> And, um, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Karin is one of the top-tier,
> just saying she definitely beats Zangief.
All Shotos should be Zangief except for Sagat (but he isn't a shoto), Dan
should have the hardest time. Dhalsim and Blanka should also have a pretty
easy time, too. I'm not sure about Vega, though.
Dale
Recoom of Ginyu
news:19990415051423...@ng29.aol.com...
> >> In fact this weekend I plan on raising money for diabetes research
> >> and a few weeks after hosting a competition for local highschools.
>
> What? What kind of bullshit is that? Do you expect anyone to believe
this?
>
> LOL.. is it that hard to believe people do things that actually are more
> important than games. I really don't care if anyone believes me. What I
do
> care is that the money goes to good use. Diabetes research has gone a
long way
> over the years and more money means more funds for treatment. Ah.. I am
> lecturing about something people dont care about.. so I will just end it.
Judging from all your other BS posts, I think everyone on this NG will agree
with me when I say that you seem way way WAY too immature for anything of
this sort.
| Recoom of Ginyu
| http://waveworld.simplenet.com
| http://www.fastwww.com/thebreak
| "FEEL THE MIGHT OF GINYU!!!"
Chocobo
> > Mr. Lin, please don't automatically assume that everything around the world
> > is like it is at your local arcade. Sure, there's a lot to be said for
> > Gief... he's really good. But the problem is, he's not invincible. There are
> > plenty of ways to take him down... if your competition isn't good enough, you
> > will win. This was one of the principle arguments against JB/LazyJae. Please
> > don't follow that route. ^_^
>
> I told people that I am not here to claim Zangief is the top tier. I am
> here to claim that Zangief deserves to be a middle tier when hearing
> Chocobo whining that "Z should be a lower tier"....But all of you are like
> trashing Zangief's winning possibility. You guys all Birdie-ize and
> Dan-ize him....You think I don't know Akuma's VC and Rolento's poky? I do
> all of them and destroy people with that....I just enjoy more when
> destroying people with Zangief 'cause it's just fun when somebody was
> SPDed and said "damn I should've jump away".....
Well, good for you, but that doesn't make Zangief a good character. You might be
able to beat every X-Rolento, V-Ryu, and A-Dhalsim you've ever played with
Zangief... that would just mean that your competition sucks. If I beat everyone
around here with Dan, that doesn't make him one of the stronger characters.
Chun Li
Hey cutie, never go to arcade with your boyfriend, unless you wanna see
him get whooped.....painfully whooped
> Well, good for you, but that doesn't make Zangief a good character. You might be
> able to beat every X-Rolento, V-Ryu, and A-Dhalsim you've ever played with
> Zangief... that would just mean that your competition sucks. If I beat everyone
> around here with Dan, that doesn't make him one of the stronger characters.
>
I beat everyone's crap with X-Rolento, V-Ryu, and X-Dhalsim, too. What
about that?
Ace-ISM
<robo...@my-dejanews.com> wrote in message
news:7f4v30$jpl$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com...
<snap>
> > > Theoretically Karin should whoop Zangief (standing Fierce and huge air
> > > throw range). But I just destroy'em anyway.
> [snip]
> > 1) Zangief has absolutely *no* air game with Karin. That standing fierce
> > destroys every single air move of poor Z's. And her Air-throws are also
> > great anti-air at close range. Don't forget Kick super with A/Z Karin.
>
> That's fine. I still A3 should be played w/no one jumping anywhere.
Jumping
> seems to be a good way to get yourself combo'd.
It's also a good way to start off combos. No one should be jumping in
willy-nilly though, they should be jumping when the other player least
expects it or are not in a good position to counter the jump.
Against characters with little defense against Zangief's splash, you should
jump in to abuse it to hell and back =P.
>
> > 2) That leaves Zangief with a footsie game where he somehow has to
manage to
> > get in close to do his damage. But Karin's pokes are *better* than
> > Zangief's. Her standing forward out-prioritises just about everything
(if
> > not everything) that Zangief has in the ground move department. Even his
> > standing short! Her sweep has long range and junping straight-up
roundhouse
> > is a great keep-away move (if Z tries to lariet in when she does this,
> > Karin's foot smacks him on the head). It's also good at pushing away a
> > jumping-in Zangief.
>
> Are you sure about the s.short?
Yep. Very sure. Once Karin's foot is out, if Zangief tries to match her with
his short, he gets countered. Even if he throws it a bit earlier than
Karin's s.forward, she still beats it. And the big thing is that Karin's
s.forward has more range than Zangief's s.short. So basically the only way
he can beat that s.forward is to anticipate it, and throw it out WAY before
Karin's knee/foot comes out. Just as she begins the starting animation in
fact and that's just not good enough. Add the fact that if he anticipates
wrong, he's gonna be hitting nothing but thin air.
(Don't forget that Karin's s.forward is interruptable so if she connects it,
she can combo the snot out of you =P)
>Almost nothing beats Z's s.short,
Who says? Besides Karin's s.forward, her s.strong, s.short and s.jab also
have a great chance of beating it. I'm even now testing it here on PSX Z3,
putting Karin and Zangief next to each other and trying the moves against
each other.
I don't use
> it much b/c by the time I'm in range w/the s.short, I'm SPD-ing.
His s.short has more range than his SPD. Anyway his SPD has nowhere near the
range that Karin's poking moves have ...
>
> What about the s.fierce? If I'm not mistaken, it is the quickest and, at
the
> same time, the longest s.fierce move in the game.
Longest, yes. Quickest, no. His standing fierce is so slow, a person can
beat it on reaction. With Karin specifically, her moves that beat it cleanly
include s.jab, s.short, s.forward, s.strong. However her s.fierce trades
hits with it (even though it's more of an anti-air move and no Karin player
would ever poke with *that*). Trying to poke with Zangief's s.fierce would
be suicide ... it's more of a punishing type move since it does quite a lot
of damage for a normal and it's so slow.
The s.fierce beats a lot
> of moves in the game. It makes people scared to jump when they get popped
> out of the air.
The only way it will anti-air someone is if they jump in from pretty far
away (and with Karin, her move won't even reach from that range so why would
she be jumping from there? Although what is funny is if she sticks out
jumping short, it will beat Z's standing fierce anyway if he throws it out).
And even then, it doesn't have enough priority to be reliable anti-air. For
Zangief Anti-air, you're better off with the Lariet or the c.strong.
Do you know what's a good technique if you can't connect the
> s.fierce? I guarantee that at least 7 times out of 10 if Z throws a
s.fierce
> and it misses, the opponent will jump in, but it has to be a near miss.
9 times out of 10, they'll just sweep you =P. If they didn't counter the
fierce and combo the snot out of you =P.
When
> this happens, the character will get in close and try to combo but will be
> too far away so will settle for just pushing Z further into the corner or
> gaining position to set up some sort of trap. When this happens, the
> opponent will attack. As soon as the opponent attacks, he is in SPD range
> and will get sucked in. It should look like this: Z misses w/s.fierce,
> opponent jumps in w/an attack, trying to get that fierce as it recoils,
> opponent misses b/c the fierce recoils too quickly and opponent lands. As
> opponent lands, Zangief SPDs. It's easy to tell when Zangief is too far
away
> to SPD, so it won't look like the opponent got sucked in from half way
across
> the screen. The best thing to do is hope that the opponent makes Zangief
> block and then doesn't attack when he lands, but instead jumps straight up
> and hopes that he has as good a rh as Karin or Blanka when they jump
straight
> up. Sooner or later opponents will stop jumping in and retreat into the
> corner, where Zangief will surely have his way w/them.
That's a whole lot of assuming. Anyway, I'm not sure what you're trying to
prove here either.
>
> What about the green hand? If Karin or anyone tries to do anything except
> jump away from a blocked green hand, they're asking for a SPD.
How about VC? How about super?
>
> [V-Karin analysis snipped, since I agree that V-Karin is a little harder
to
> beat]
She can be *much* harder to beat. V-Karin take off 75% in the right
condition (corner juggle). Even her mid-screen ones can take off about
45-50%. More or less depending on the distance from the corner. Basically
she juggles you to the corner then does the good ol' palmstrike stuff
(unflippable VCs too).
>
> > And, um, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Karin is one of the
top-tier,
> > just saying she definitely beats Zangief.
>
> All Shotos should be Zangief except for Sagat (but he isn't a shoto), Dan
> should have the hardest time. Dhalsim and Blanka should also have a
pretty
> easy time, too. I'm not sure about Vega, though.
Errr .... Karin isn't a shoto =P
ca...@grommit.com
>
> Anything I agreed with from the reply has been snipped...
>
> I'm impressed. Your life experiences are not mine or anyone elses. I would
> think that your experience is relatively rare. The question is "Do you
currently
> expect and want your master and teachers to go prove themselves?"
Well, if they've proven themselves in the near past, then no. Still, I'm not
about to let some unknown teach me unless I am:
a. Desperate
b. Impressed by a show of skill.
> Don't you blindly believe what you already believe and say? Is it to be
gathered
> thet you do not blindly believ in what you say? Take out the 'blindly,' do you
> not believe in what you say? Their coming off blindly is your opinion, is it
> not? I doubt that you live in a 100% doubt of everything, so you must have
> accepted certain things as true.
Blindly believing means belief despite lack of evidence towards something, or,
in his case, bountiful evidence *against* what he says...
> Oh, I'm sorry. The second imaginary post is a little hard to understand. It is
a
> question. "HOW could I beat Valle and Choi, SPECIFICALLY?" I don't believe
many
> if at all people on this group would answer it with ideas I can use. People
> tend to with hold info like that.
Well... I posted on a similar subject (how to beat top tier characters). I'm
still anxiously awaiting replies (where are you good champion SF players out
there?!?!?).
> Please explain this a bit more. If a semantic is "Of or relating to meaning,
> esp. meaning in language" how does it apply?
I think this has been done to death, but here's how I used the term
'semantics'. You have to define everything explicitly as either an element or
a set of elements. If you assume people know what you're talking about, there
will be miscommunication, because definitions can vary from person to person.
To avoid this, you define everything at the outset explicitly so everyone
knows what you're talking about.
> Wait. Can you use my Ocean-Sky satement and show me how I would have to phraze
> it to be true?
*rolls up her sleeves, pushes out the chalkboard and puts on her glasses*
Not unless you redefine what 'sky' and 'ocean' and 'blue' are. Here's what's
going on:
__________________________________________
| |
| ____________ _____________ |
| | | | | |
| | sky | | ocean | |
| |____________| |_____________| |
| |
| All Objects that are Blue |
|__________________________________________|
The sky is an element of the set of all blue objects.
The ocean is an element of the set of all blue objects.
That doesn't necessarily mean that they are the same thing. They just happen
to be within the same set.
<math talk snipped>
> Logic is described in words.
> Words are flawed by semantics.
> Therefore, Logic is flawed by semantics.
>
> Does that work?
Nope. what WOULD work is:
Logic is described by flawed semantics.
> Yes "You" define what is cheap. you're the one replying not me. You could
think
> of what you think cheap is, see where a throw could be cheap, if at all, and
> thne go from there.
The key to dealing with the semantics problem lies here: One must define
everything explicitly.
> But he commited no crime. This is a NG, not a trial. OK is different from
> understanding. All assholes, I'm not saying you JB, that I've met have had
> family problems. If it wasn't for this, me knowing that, I would probably be a
> lot harder to them, but I feel compasion for them so I cut them some slack.
It doesn't matter. If he's got a problem, it doesn't give him the right to
post drivel and expect us all to agree with him.
> <snip> By the way Cammy, how often do you play anyway?
Against the CPU about three or four times a week... against humans? Not
enough, most of the people at the local arcade are scrubs, so they're
attracted to the Vs. games like flies to honey.
> I'll ask you this. Why don't you tell me about me. I won't be upset at
anything
> you say. Tell me all that you see when you picture me.
You're probably going to laugh... I see a middle-aged mustached man, with
graying curly hair that comes down to mid-neck and a penchant for teaching
high school students. You know why? Because I had an art teacher in high
school named 'Mr. Ratliff', so that automatically pops up whenever I see your
last name. I don't think a mental picture of someone is necessary when I
post, all I think about is what they said and what I think about that.
> I'll start with you. I see a girl who claims to be a scrub and who is going to
> school and is intelligent. I see you dressed conservatively and kind of short
> with glasses. You like logic and arguing and being right. You are short with
> blond hair, don't speak another language fluently and driva a car made within
> the last 6 years. You are in shape and have a cute personality. You are a
strong
> feminist, or want to be. You are stubborn and slightly snobish, making
judgement
> calls in the back of your mind.
>
> How right am I?
Heh.. you're not too far away, but you're not exactly hitting the mark. Here's
me.
I am a UC Berkeley student. Whatever that's worth, I guess it means I have
some brains in my scrubby little head after all. I've been claiming to be a
scrub since I came to this NG, so that's no surprise. I dress in T-shirts,
jeans, sweaters and sometimes skirts if the weather permits... nothing too
fancy. I am not blond and I don't wear glasses (unless I have to read
something small). I speak Mandarin Chinese fluently, as well as English, and
I don't drive. I am fairly tall for a chinese girl (no blond hair here), or
for a girl in general (5'6", to my perpetual annoyance). I suppose you could
say I'm in shape (I need to lose that perpetual 5 lbs that annoys me to no
end though). I am an advocate of equal rights. That doesn't necessarily make
me a feminist. And yes, I do like to argue... it's fun, and it gives me
something to do that my professors think is good.
> Now let me say one thing, if you fit this then you remind me of my sister, who
I
> love ane care for so automatically you get some slack if you ever post an
> offensive thing. Its a positive image, not a negative one.
That's just it though... I never plan on posting an offensive thing. I'll
either laugh at it or I will get mad and blow steam...
> You know, when ever I try to go to your website my Communicator (Netscape
4.08)
> crashes. Hmm???
Maybe it's your ISP. I've had some complaints and other people who just tell
me that my art is cute.
JB (Gainz) stuff snipped...
--Cammy, the artistic Scrub
namo...@sprynet.com
<da...@uswest.net> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Now the one thing I'll say for JB is that he does NOT have to got to
>EEC4 to prove anything. I don't know the guy and I really don't
>remember any of his pasts post. I tend to weed out any posts without
>interesting subjects. I read maybe half the posts here at most. But
>I'm digressing...
>
>Do those of you who take a martial art make your master fight in
>tounaments to prove himself?
If I wanted to know how my master ranked against other masters, yes,
most definitely. If I wanted to know if I should be taking lessons
from someone who doesn't know what he's teaching, yes most definitely.
> Do those of you in school expect your
>teachers to fly to conventions to hear the latest in that field?
Do I want to be taught lessons that were proven wrong 10 years ago?
Probably not.
>Probably not. And if JB is a scrub, why do you want him there? To add
>to the winners pot? To humiliate him?
>
>I know JB is no master but either are we. What if he is the best on
>this NG and is just weird and excentric in his posts? He could play
Then we would like to see for ourselves.
>What I'm getting at is that I don't see why JB is so important, no
>offense JB. He posts and if it is wrong or uninteresting I just mark it
>read and go on to the next. It seems that, from his tone in his posts,
>that he is at least acting sorry, but the flames against him keep
>growing. Why are you all so obsessed with proving him wrong? It will
>never happen. He'll be him and you'll be you. Maybe if you became
>friends with him he'd one day change but that's iffy.
It happened with Master John, so it's not too far-fetched. =)
>Also, everything on the NG is oppinion. Rarely is anything for fact. I
When I post an infinite combo that has been verified, it is fact.
>A) The sky is blue.
>
>B) The ocean is blue.
>
>C) The Sky is the ocean.
>
>Now ONLY using whats given in the above is it true?
No. That is not true. IF, however, you were to say
A) The sky is blue.
B) All things blue are the ocean.
C) The sky is the ocean.
Then LOGICALLY, it would be true. But you can't say those first 3
sentences and then logically conclude that all things blue are the
ocean. Take a class.
> Yes. I know that the
>sky is not the ocean (kinda poetic. clouds are the crests of waves. : )
>) but if that is all I'm goin on then it is true. There are two pieces
>of information there, to answer the question as false I must be using my
>experiences and my knowledge by adding it to the question. You know the
No. You simply use LOGIC.
>I'm NOT looking for you all t osend or post the answers but on the last
>on the answer is likely NO and here's why. The definition of a triangle
>is that it has three sides.
No. A square has three sides. A pentagon has three sides. A hexagon
has three sides. Hell... any polygon has three sides. A triangle has
ONLY three sides.
You get anal, I get anal.
> The definition of a circle is that it has no
>sides per se, but is one big, well, circle.
It is a figure with all points equidistant from a common point, or
some shit like that.
>For God to create a round
>triangle, he would have to change our definitions of the word since by
>our restictive vocabulary it is not possible. But he is God you say.
>Yes, but by Human definition a triangle can not be a circle. But he is
>all Powerful. Yes, but that does not mean a triangle can be a circle
>unless the definitions we use to destinguish one from the other are
>changed.
I can make a triangle a circle rather easily. Take a long piece of
string. Lay it out to form a triangle. Now pick it up and make it a
circle. Bada-bing. Done.
>Who am I to say what God can and cannot do? Nobody, but either are you.
>Only God truly knows if he exists and what he can do. All I can do is
>show what must be overcome for a specific thing to take place. He CAN
>make a circular triangle by changing our definitions or inventing a new
>one.
Are we going off on tangents? Hmm... "if you feel that you are right
and other people are wrong, prove it." The best place to do this?
ECC4, since practically everyone in the community is going.
I'm tired of all of this shit. What's more... I'm REtired from all of
this shit. But that "logic" thing just HAD to go... I hate it when
people post "logic" and aren't doing it logically...
David Alexander S. Dial
"I'm retired."
Smo0thShot
start a NG alt.person.jbgainz.whatever
because these people waste there time arguing with you.
Flip [SmOotH sHot] GhOst!
http://scroll.to/extreme
JB Gainz
Hehe .. interesting idea, but I rather not even dream of such a news group. As
for being more famous than SF, I have not reached that status... yet. : - )
That thread was pretty damn long though. Such a waste.. I must have had about
15 posts alone in it.
JB GAINZ
EC
Long thread nothing. Good read the arguement over the name Ryu.
Or the MvC is a skill game.
Or go back further and read the Ming-Su wars.
You guy are just showing your newbie-ness here.
:)
-E