East coast players are not srcubs
BoXfResHn1
coast players and it's because they get the games first. West coast players
have always had the upperhand because of this. When the game comes out in a
west coast arcade, we get the game like 3 weeks later. I have never seen capcom
or namco ever put any beta games in east coast. If we had the games the same
time as they did. The east coast would probably not suck that much. This is one
of the advantages that the east coast does not have.
~Henry Cen
Ultima
> There is a simple reason why the west coast players are better than the east coast players and it's because they get the games first. West coast players have always had the upperhand because of this. When the game comes out in a west coast arcade, we get the game like 3 weeks later. I have never seen capcom or namco ever put any beta games in east coast. If we had the games the same time as they did. The east coast would probably not suck that much. This is one of the advantages that the east coast does not have.
> ~Henry Cen
Hey Henry! How's it going? I don't know if you remember me, but I'm the
guy who showed up last December 21st in Chinatown for the tourny that
never was and kept asking you about it (and was getting his ass washed
all night long). You're right: The players who didn't sign were PUSSIES
^_^
Anyway, I'd say it's more than the fact that the West Coast gets game
first. They do get games first, sometimes WAAAAY in advance (I didn't
see 2I over here until some 3 or 4 months after it came out over there).
So they do have the time advantage.
Moreover, there is a much greater concentration of great players over
there than here. The East Coast has its best players scattered all over
the place, and they don't play each other that often (relatively). The
West Coast players have been battling each other at high levels for
YEARS now, and they continue to play at that level, while we can only
hope to reach that level (which realistically won't happen unless all
the West Coast players abruptly stopped playing for a while so we can
catch up :)
The East Coast as a whole isn't quite at the level of the West Coast,
but I don't think we suck (no matter how much certain clowns try and
convince us otherwise). We have some great players here, and our rep has
been slowly but steadily increasing. Let's continue the trend.. :)
--
Ultima - Wishes he were back in LI so he could play some REAL players
http://members.xoom.com/Ultima1 - The Street Fighter RPG Manifesto!
http://members.xoom.com/ShinUltima - U's Ultimate Rambling Page
"If an arcade doesn't have a version of SF or SS in it, then it's not an
arcade"
win...@bellatlantic.net
boxfr...@aol.com (BoXfResHn1) wrote:
> There is a simple reason why the west coast players are better than the east
> coast players and it's because they get the games first. West coast players
> have always had the upperhand because of this. When the game comes out in a
> west coast arcade, we get the game like 3 weeks later. I have never seen
capcom
> or namco ever put any beta games in east coast. If we had the games the same
> time as they did. The east coast would probably not suck that much. This is
one
> of the advantages that the east coast does not have.
>
> ~Henry Cen
Umm... Henry? No.
It looks like the whole "East VS West" thing has been nothing but a bunch of
silly arguments that the East makes to give reason to why the West is
superior. Wanna see? Let's review...
1) Throwing - I think this was the staple of East Coast play (and probably
still is in smaller sections of the East.) We have seen hundreds of players
complain about throws in the earlier games, mostly from the East Coast. While
that entire "no throws" thing stopped for me in CE (when I stopped giving a
shit) I STILL see players to this day complain about being thrown and how
it's cheap. While myy arcade has made throwing part of the balanced diet,
there is another arcade not too far away where I still see the "giving throws
for throws" rule in effect. WTF? If a player doesn't believe in throws, they
usually have these strange fighting tactics that would never work in a
tournament against somebody of true competitive level (i.e. THROWS.)
2) No group rivalries - We don't have the North Cali and South Cali thing in
any way, shape, or form over here, and it's a crying shame. While you may
view the NY/NJ VS VA thing as something similar, it doesn't truly equate. The
players over there seem to "team up" a bit better than over here, where it is
everybody for themselves. There is no motivation set for either side to be
better than the other. At least that's what it seems like with the NY/NJ side
of it all, but then again, isn't everyone against Chocobo? ^_^
3) Tournament quantities - While we may have players hording to The Break
tournaments, you don't see much action elsewhere on the East. Even you Henry
have to agree on this, since your last few tournament attempts have proven
unsuccessful, with less than 15 players fighting in a crowd of 50. Everybody
is afraid of one person, thus they do not wish to play. It seems that players
over here are more concerned with winning than they are just playing for the
fun of playing in a tournament.
4) The Internet - This puppy here completely destroys your reasoning that the
earlier arrival of an arcade unit makes for better players. Many of the
players post on their discoveries on the newest titles to keep the rest of
the country in line with what the dilly is with the game. Right now, you see
alot of V-Combo postings that I'll be DAMNED if you thought up yourself. It's
this sharing of information that helps eliminate the necessity to "try new
things." Some players have already figured out things for you. Plus, on good
nights on IRC, the players have been discussing some higher end aspects of
the game. Why do you think my X-Rolento is so damn annoying? It is a mixture
of playing like a little bitch, reading posts, and discussing technique with
players personally and on IRC.
If I think of anything else, I'll ammend this post. Back to work
Todd Dwyer
Tournament Director - Street Fighter East Coast Championships 4
ecc4di...@hotmail.com
www.fastwww.com/thebreak/ecc4.htm
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
LazyJae
"Ya'll talk alot of shit but that is after I am gone" -Quoting 2pac(From the
west, But originated in the EAST). NEway if ya think ya better. In 2I& A3 I am
not that good. But I'll give U a fight you win congratulations but there are
some EAST Players that are no joke. And ya only better in one way. Ya have so
much fucking time on your hands that all you do is drive to arcade since it
opens and play till it closes. Us East Players we have live to keep up with so
we make moves. Speaking for my self I can say that I play games when I get the
chance to and I am still good. WHAT WHAT!!!!
LazyJae Gone-Maximum Street Fighter-X
http://www.bigfoot.com/~LazyJae
WhoaMoses
discuss the players who are really good and why they are good. Why is Valle so
good? Probably because he spends his whole life in the arcade at Sunnyvale or
at tournaments. I'd really love to know how these guys support themselves. Do
they have jobs? Do they go to college? Did they ever even graduate from high
school? Who knows. I honestly want an answer. I just can't believe that these
guys, east or west coast (okay so most of them are west coast) are just BETTER
than everybody else. There has to be a reason. And I'm betting that that reason
is because these guys have no life outside of a video arcade.
I'm not one to brag: I'm good at capcom games but I get beaten too. I think
that I can honestly say that I'm one of the best in southern Connecticut (along
with Tee Carter, we're longtime rivals), but I'm sorry to say that I'm only a
high school student who has more important things on his mind that traveling
the country to go to tournaments where I can have the priviledge to play guys
who's life is Street Fighter 24-7. Obviously I'll get schooled and be ashamed
of my pitiful skills. But I'd rather go to a good college, get a good-paying
job, and raise a family than be a veritable Ryu, wandering from place to place
just to win tournaments to make enough money to live. Let's smarten up guys:
Street Fighter IS NOT a way of life like a lot of people make it out to be.
It's just a fun game that is meant to be played on the side, while things like
school, jobs, and family come first.
And by the way, I have played Valle once in KOF97 when I went to Sunnyvale a
few years ago. Of course he kicked my ass. He'd probably been playing the game
for a month before me (it was my first time playing). But it was pitiful that
he was soooo good in such a short time. I'm willing to bet he spent like the
whole entire week it came out in the arcade just to find out the most powerful
characters (can you say Benimaru?) and whoop all the competition from here to
oblivion like he did to me.
So once again, I'm sorry to bust all you guys balls, but wisen up. Street
Fighter is not some great big sports competition with a East coast-West coast
rivaly. It is only a game. And those like Valle who are supposedly SO good at
it that they are unbeatable are just sad little kids who haven't grown up yet.
And by the way, somebody tell Valle that I posted this, cuz I want a response
from him.
Nuff' said.
(By the way, I AM the undisputed champion of Tekken 3 on the East coast. If
anybody thinks otherwise, come down to old What's Your Game? Arcade in
Bridgeport on a Friday or Saturday night and I'll show you a thing or two. That
is if I'm working (that's right guys, I have a J-O-B!)
Kenta20
Okay.. I agree.. it has gone too long. I'm sure there are good players on both
coast. But apparently there can only be one Top player... but if the majority
of the top player are from the west coast I don't have an answer for that.
How about this:
>let's
>discuss the players who are really good and why they are good. Why is Valle
>so
>good? Probably because he spends his whole life in the arcade at Sunnyvale or
>at tournaments. I'd really love to know how these guys support themselves. Do
>they have jobs? Do they go to college? Did they ever even graduate from high
>school? Who knows. I honestly want an answer.
Not to burst your bubble, but Alex doesn't play video games 24/7 like you
state. He does have a life. I've known the guy for the past 3-4 years and
every new SF game or ANY game for that matter he's pretty good at. If you ask
his friends or players that have played him, you would know that he has this
"natural" instinct to be good on a SF game. At SHGL where he plays once in a
while (Not Sunnyvale), I've seen many people play SFA3 all day long (I use to
work at SHGL). But you know what? They all couldn't do the things Alex Valle
or other Top So.Cali players do. You want to know something else? At
Nationals some of the top competitors already had the SFA3 machine at their
homes and have been practicing already... but Alex? I only saw him a few times
playing SFA3 the week prior to Nationals. I can't say what he does during his
offtime because I don't follow him around all day, but I'm sure he's not
playing Video games all day.
I just can't believe that these
>guys, east or west coast (okay so most of them are west coast) are just
>BETTER
>than everybody else. There has to be a reason. And I'm betting that that
>reason
>is because these guys have no life outside of a video arcade.
>I'm not one to brag: I'm good at capcom games but I get beaten too. I think
>that I can honestly say that I'm one of the best in southern Connecticut
>(along
>with Tee Carter, we're longtime rivals), but I'm sorry to say that I'm only a
>high school student who has more important things on his mind that traveling
>the country to go to tournaments where I can have the priviledge to play guys
>who's life is Street Fighter 24-7. Obviously I'll get schooled and be ashamed
>of my pitiful skills. But I'd rather go to a good college, get a good-paying
>job, and raise a family than be a veritable Ryu, wandering from place to
>place
>just to win tournaments to make enough money to live. Let's smarten up guys:
>Street Fighter IS NOT a way of life like a lot of people make it out to be.
>It's just a fun game that is meant to be played on the side, while things
>like
>school, jobs, and family come first.
Yes i agree, video games shouldn't be the most important thing in life. But
you are making rash assumptions that because Alex Valle or any other good
players in the West Coast are good, that they must be playing the game 24/7.
And that is not the case. Also it's not a valid case that just because we get
the game sooner that the East coast players lack skills. Go read Tom Cannon's
previous post about this... he summarizes this part pretty well.
>
>And by the way, I have played Valle once in KOF97 when I went to Sunnyvale a
>few years ago. Of course he kicked my ass. He'd probably been playing the
>game
>for a month before me (it was my first time playing). But it was pitiful that
>he was soooo good in such a short time. I'm willing to bet he spent like the
>whole entire week it came out in the arcade just to find out the most
>powerful
>characters (can you say Benimaru?) and whoop all the competition from here to
>oblivion like he did to me.
Once again you are assuming that he's been playing the game nonstop for the
past few weeks/months..etc. Like I said, he's a casual player at best. He's
just naturally good at most games.. maybe not the best on everything, but he's
pretty darn good. He doesn't stick with just one character on the game either.
He didn't have to use Benimaru to beat you.. he would have used ANY characters
and beat you... simply put, he's just naturally good.. fast reflexes, hand eye
coordination... the force is with him.
>So once again, I'm sorry to bust all you guys balls, but wisen up. Street
>Fighter is not some great big sports competition with a East coast-West coast
>rivaly. It is only a game. And those like Valle who are supposedly SO good at
>it that they are unbeatable are just sad little kids who haven't grown up
>yet.
They have grown up, that don't have to make up excuses on why they suck on
games.
>And by the way, somebody tell Valle that I posted this, cuz I want a response
>from him.
>
>Nuff' said.
I hope he posts as well.. I would like to hear what he has to say... but I
doubt he will.. he's above this lil' chilidish tirade.
>(By the way, I AM the undisputed champion of Tekken 3 on the East coast. If
>anybody thinks otherwise, come down to old What's Your Game? Arcade in
>Bridgeport on a Friday or Saturday night and I'll show you a thing or two.
>That
>is if I'm working (that's right guys, I have a J-O-B!)
So in your argument you said that because the West coast players play so much
that they are so good... that must mean you play Tekken 3 ALL DAY 24/7 to get
that good??? Is that what you are telling me? Because if you go and reread
what you posted that is basically your defense.
Kenta20
WhoaMoses
>Not to burst your bubble, but Alex doesn't play video games 24/7 like you
>state. He does have a life. I've known the guy for the past 3-4 years and
>every new SF game or ANY game for that matter he's pretty good at. If you
>ask
>his friends or players that have played him, you would know that he has this
>"natural" instinct to be good on a SF game.
Okay, so maybe this post seemed like it was focus primarily at Alex. I didn't
mean it to be. I just meant to use Alex as a representation of ALL the
so-called SF gurus out there, particularly on the west coast.
>But
>you are making rash assumptions that because Alex Valle or any other good
>players in the West Coast are good, that they must be playing the game 24/7.
>And that is not the case. Also it's not a valid case that just because we
>get
>the game sooner that the East coast players lack skills.
Okay, so maybe I'm making assumptions. But I didn't say that I was right in the
first place. That's why right at the beginning I asked for someone like Valle
to respond to see just why these guys are so good in the first place. I still
believe that these guys play the games a hell of a lot more than me and that's
why they're better. Then I get to go online and hear all about the "SF gods"
who are so good. And I think to myself "Hey, I could probably as good as them
if I had the time to spent on it. But I don't, and it's no big deal." And the
East Coast getting the games later than the West Coast is probably a buncha
bull, I agree. Of course I'm sure Valle beat me at KOF97 cuz I'd never played
the game before, and he had already mastered Benimaru. Man did that lighting
fist corner trap piss me off......
However, you have to agree that when the east coast NEVER gets games (I've
never seen a KOF98 machine, and the only place I've heard of it over here is at
Chinatown fair in NY), we can't exactly stand much of a chance.
>
>>
>>And by the way, I have played Valle once in KOF97 when I went to Sunnyvale a
>>few years ago. Of course he kicked my ass. He'd probably been playing the
>>game
>>for a month before me (it was my first time playing). But it was pitiful
>that
>>he was soooo good in such a short time. I'm willing to bet he spent like the
>>whole entire week it came out in the arcade just to find out the most
>>powerful
>>characters (can you say Benimaru?) and whoop all the competition from here
>to
>>oblivion like he did to me.
>
>Once again you are assuming that he's been playing the game nonstop for the
>past few weeks/months..etc. Like I said, he's a casual player at best. He's
>just naturally good at most games.. maybe not the best on everything, but
>he's
>pretty darn good. He doesn't stick with just one character on the game
>either.
> He didn't have to use Benimaru to beat you.. he would have used ANY
>characters
>and beat you... simply put, he's just naturally good.. fast reflexes, hand
>eye
>coordination... the force is with him.
Now YOU'RE making the assumptions. You're basically saying that I was wasting
my money by playing him because he would have beaten me no matter what the
circumstances (sounds like a classic case of Valle worhip to me!). Well I
woulda LOVED to see him beat my Ralf or Terry with somebody like Cheng......now
THAT woulda been frickin hilarious. I'm sorry, but I just do not believe that
somebody can be "naturally" good at games, or that the "force" is with him.
That's just a buncha crap. That case may be so in sports (some people are more
muscular, or just better athletically built than others, and so are naturally
better) but no way is it so in video games. I will never dunk on Jordan, but it
is possible for me to beat Valle at SF. That's because anybody can learn to
hone and refine their minds and reflexes. And now we're getting into philosophy
and I'm getting a headache......
>
>They have grown up, that don't have to make up excuses on why they suck on
>games.
I'm not making excuses. I'm just trying to understand why people worship these
guys, and why there's an East-West rivalry. It's really no big deal, just a
game.
>>And by the way, somebody tell Valle that I posted this, cuz I want a
>response
>>from him.
>>
>>Nuff' said.
>
>I hope he posts as well.. I would like to hear what he has to say... but I
>doubt he will.. he's above this lil' chilidish tirade.
>
If he did post, he'd probably just swear at me for callin him a little kid and
threaten my life.......a typical response to any threat. And this isn't a
childish tirade either, it's a legitimate argument. Like I already said, I
didn't know if I was right or not about it, I just wanted an answer from
somebody who knew these guys, or from the guys themselves. Thanks for actually
posting in response.
>
>>(By the way, I AM the undisputed champion of Tekken 3 on the East coast. If
>>anybody thinks otherwise, come down to old What's Your Game? Arcade in
>>Bridgeport on a Friday or Saturday night and I'll show you a thing or two.
>>That
>>is if I'm working (that's right guys, I have a J-O-B!)
>
>So in your argument you said that because the West coast players play so much
>that they are so good... that must mean you play Tekken 3 ALL DAY 24/7 to get
>that good??? Is that what you are telling me? Because if you go and reread
>what you posted that is basically your defense.
Not really. You obviously didn't realize that I was being sarcastic (then again
who can tell when you can't hear the person's voice? I'm pretty stupid ain't
I). Anyways, I am pretty good at Tekken 3, but I know I'm not the best. There's
always somebody out there who can beat you......and that's why neither Valle or
Choi or even Viscant (uh-oh, what have I started?) can be the undisputed US
champion of anything. After all, none of them have played me. So there!
(Just on the side, does anybody know if Valle works at Golfland, or used to?
Cuz when I went it looked like he worked there and at first I didn't recoginze
him. After about 7 consecutive ass whoopings it hit me though....)
Viscant
>guys, east or west coast (okay so most of them are west coast) are just
>BETTER
>than everybody else.
Well, I hate to say this, but doesn't it just seem that way? Some people just
naturally have the hand-eye cooridination and the SF smarts. It's weird, but I
remember the first time I played Alex Valle at any game, I just remember
thinking "Wow, he just seems to understand the game better." I really don't
know how else to phrase that, because it sounds really clumsy that way. I'll
give an example. The second day A3 was at SHGL, I showed up and played for a
few hours, trying out Honda (who I'd heard to be some kind of a god character)
and Zangief, when all of a sudden, the man walked in. He played X-Ryu against
my X-Zangief a few times, and I got the unholy living snot beat out of me.
He--while I had the edge in time on the machine over him at the time--already
understood the intricacies of the game: the juggling system, how to get around
Zangief's amazing priority lariat (even heavier in the beta), where the
weakness in the splash was. He already understood things it took me a good
week to figure out for myself. It's an understanding that can't be helped as
much by practice as it is aided by the mind. My mind simply could not deal
with so many changes, so quickly, whereas with him, he was already smooth with
his juggling, threw easily, he even had already figured out the intricacies of
the guard crush system, as even my X-gief got crushed like crazy, seemingly out
of nowhere, something I'm *still* working on. I assume that other great SF
players have that kind of an understanding of the games as they come out, and
can parlay that beginning edge into a long standing advantage.
I probably will never be able to reach the level of Alex Valle on Alpha 3. Sad
but true, I know. I can't react fast enough, my hands aren't quick enough
(even after consistent VS play), I just can't learn fast enough what players
like he already know well. That's the difference between the good and the
great, I guess.
>I'm only a
>high school student who has more important things on his mind that traveling
>the country to go to tournaments where I can have the priviledge to play guys
>who's life is Street Fighter 24-7.
I can't say that I know any tournament player whose life is SF 24-7. Like all
normal people, tournament players have jobs (most of us always do anyways), a
lot of us are college students, but playing games just happens to be a hobby of
ours. Also, going to tournaments is some what of a social event. We, being
normal people make friends and going to monthly or yearly tournaments is maybe
our only excuse to fly or drive hundreds of miles to see these people again, to
stay at their houses, drink their beer and vomit in their toilets. I don't
think anyone really takes these rivalry things seriously; I can't see any true
animosity between No. Cal and So. Cal, or east coast and west coast.
>But I'd rather go to a good college, get a good-paying
>job, and raise a family than be a veritable Ryu, wandering from place to
>place
>just to win tournaments to make enough money to live.
I don't think there are any of us making enough money to live here. Unless I'm
getting royally shafted, which considering my luck is not totally out of the
question. I think if one guy won all the big tournies this year, he would have
made about 6-7 grand. Nice, yes, but not a living. Most of us do go to good
colleges. Look at some of the e-mail addresses. Cornell, UC SD, Davis,
Berkeley, LA, Rutgers, Brown, MIT. Those are some very high quality schools,
all of them.
[snip rest of very sad post]
--Viscant, The Icy Rose
"All the girlies say I'm pretty fly, for a white guy."
Jimmie J
>Okays guys, enough. This rivalry has gone on long enough. How about this: let's
>discuss the players who are really good and why they are good. Why is Valle so
>good? Probably because he spends his whole life in the arcade at Sunnyvale or
>at tournaments. I'd really love to know how these guys support themselves. Do
>they have jobs? Do they go to college? Did they ever even graduate from high
>school? Who knows. I honestly want an answer. I just can't believe that these
>guys, east or west coast (okay so most of them are west coast) are just BETTER
>than everybody else. There has to be a reason. And I'm betting that that reason
>is because these guys have no life outside of a video arcade.
>I'm not one to brag: I'm good at capcom games but I get beaten too. I think
>that I can honestly say that I'm one of the best in southern Connecticut (along
>with Tee Carter, we're longtime rivals), but I'm sorry to say that I'm only a
>high school student who has more important things on his mind that traveling
>the country to go to tournaments where I can have the priviledge to play guys
>who's life is Street Fighter 24-7. Obviously I'll get schooled and be ashamed
>of my pitiful skills. But I'd rather go to a good college, get a good-paying
>job, and raise a family than be a veritable Ryu, wandering from place to place
>just to win tournaments to make enough money to live. Let's smarten up guys:
>Street Fighter IS NOT a way of life like a lot of people make it out to be.
>It's just a fun game that is meant to be played on the side, while things like
>school, jobs, and family come first.
>
That's pretty weak, acusing someone of having no life just because
they're better than you at something. I'm sure the top players play a
lot of video games, but saying that's all they do is ridiculous. I'd
say the top players play no more than 4 hours a day at the most. (I
think 2 is much more realistic) Sure, they'll have the occasional day
where they'll play for 8 hours (I've done this in Quake a lot). You
said you're in highschool. Do you play a sport? I happen to be in
highschool to and I play football. Practice is 3 hours. Now, when
season is over, I have 3 hours to do whatever the hell I want. I like
to play video games... maybe 1 to 2 hours a day. If someone plays 2
hours a day, everyday, imagine how good someone can get at anything?
Another reason why the top players are so good is because the top
player play much better competition than the average person. If you
play scrubs you're whole life, the best you're ever going to get is
"King of the Scrubs".
However, there are some people that spend their whole lifes playing
video games, but stereotyping all the "greats" is out of line.
Jimmie
Kenta20
>From: whoa...@aol.com (WhoaMoses)
>Date: 1/21/99 4:50 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <19990121195039...@ng146.aol.com>
>
>Okay, so maybe this post seemed like it was focus primarily at Alex. I didn't
>mean it to be. I just meant to use Alex as a representation of ALL the
>so-called SF gurus out there, particularly on the west coast.
>
>Okay, so maybe I'm making assumptions. But I didn't say that I was right in
>the
>first place. That's why right at the beginning I asked for someone like Valle
>to respond to see just why these guys are so good in the first place. I still
>believe that these guys play the games a hell of a lot more than me and
>that's
>why they're better. Then I get to go online and hear all about the "SF gods"
>who are so good. And I think to myself "Hey, I could probably as good as them
>if I had the time to spent on it. But I don't, and it's no big deal." And the
>East Coast getting the games later than the West Coast is probably a buncha
>bull, I agree. Of course I'm sure Valle beat me at KOF97 cuz I'd never played
>the game before, and he had already mastered Benimaru. Man did that lighting
>fist corner trap piss me off......
>However, you have to agree that when the east coast NEVER gets games (I've
>never seen a KOF98 machine, and the only place I've heard of it over here is
>at
>Chinatown fair in NY), we can't exactly stand much of a chance.
Well of course that would be the case. People can't be great on a new game..
they will normally lose to the players that have played the game for awhile.
For instance, since we are on the topic of Skills and Alex... When I worked at
SHGL, I usually see the same number of people playing the KOF series.. and when
we got KOF98, the same number of people came in to play daily, trying to find
the cheapest easiest characters to play. Then here comes Alex... he hasn't
even touch the game yet. Puts in his money plays some characters he thinks
could be good... and BAMN.. he loses, because he hadn't play the game enough.
Second game.. Alex plays again, uses the same character. But guess what he
wins... and wins... and wins. The difference being was that he rethought his
fighting style and learned the faults of his opponents, the minute intricacies
of juggles, and any other change to counter his opponents. Basically in one
game he learned how to defeat his opponents. I'm not saying he did this with
every game he's played.. but when I saw him have a 20+ win streak over these
guys that play every day on KOF98 on his second game ever... now that's natural
instinctive skills.
>Now YOU'RE making the assumptions. You're basically saying that I was wasting
>my money by playing him because he would have beaten me no matter what the
>circumstances (sounds like a classic case of Valle worhip to me!). Well I
>woulda LOVED to see him beat my Ralf or Terry with somebody like
>Cheng......now
>THAT woulda been frickin hilarious. I'm sorry, but I just do not believe that
>somebody can be "naturally" good at games, or that the "force" is with him.
>That's just a buncha crap. That case may be so in sports (some people are
>more
>muscular, or just better athletically built than others, and so are naturally
>better) but no way is it so in video games. I will never dunk on Jordan, but
>it
>is possible for me to beat Valle at SF. That's because anybody can learn to
>hone and refine their minds and reflexes. And now we're getting into
>philosophy
>and I'm getting a headache......
If you ever get to face Alex Valle again I'm sure you would see him play a
different character. On SFA3 he's played every single character, and every
character he uses pretty good if not "godly." Though some characters just
plain suck. The difference is he can use any character to win.
>
>I'm not making excuses. I'm just trying to understand why people worship
>these
>guys, and why there's an East-West rivalry. It's really no big deal, just a
>game.
Yes it is just a game. I'm sure that there are people that worship the Top
players.. but most people just state the fact that these are the best players.
At Nationals when I was helping with the tournament, some East Coast players
showed up.. and you know what my first thought was? "Wow.. I've heard about
this guy on the newsgroup.. I wonder if he is as good as they say he is." I
didn't think negatively of them. And I agree I don't really think it's
necessary for this rivalry going on... but sometimes there are those rivalries
we can't control.
>
>If he did post, he'd probably just swear at me for callin him a little kid
>and
>threaten my life.......a typical response to any threat. And this isn't a
>childish tirade either, it's a legitimate argument. Like I already said, I
>didn't know if I was right or not about it, I just wanted an answer from
>somebody who knew these guys, or from the guys themselves. Thanks for
>actually
>posting in response.
Nah... Alex wouldn't post back. Not in this case.. he's usually pretty quiet..
kick back. That's one thing that makes him a good player to represent the US
title for SFA3.. he doesn't talk smack.. and he doesn't talk behind your back.
You don't know how many times I've asked him what he thought of this opponent
or that opponent that talked shit about him... but he wouldn't say a negative
thing about the opponent.
>Not really. You obviously didn't realize that I was being sarcastic (then
>again
>who can tell when you can't hear the person's voice? I'm pretty stupid ain't
>I). Anyways, I am pretty good at Tekken 3, but I know I'm not the best.
>There's
>always somebody out there who can beat you......and that's why neither Valle
>or
>Choi or even Viscant (uh-oh, what have I started?) can be the undisputed US
>champion of anything. After all, none of them have played me. So there!
>
>(Just on the side, does anybody know if Valle works at Golfland, or used to?
>Cuz when I went it looked like he worked there and at first I didn't
>recoginze
>him. After about 7 consecutive ass whoopings it hit me though....)
>
Valle doesn't work at SHGL anymore.. he use to.
Chocobo
> There is a simple reason why the west coast players are better than the east
> coast players and it's because they get the games first. West coast players
> have always had the upperhand because of this. When the game comes out in a
> west coast arcade, we get the game like 3 weeks later. I have never seen capcom
> or namco ever put any beta games in east coast. If we had the games the same
> time as they did. The east coast would probably not suck that much. This is one
> of the advantages that the east coast does not have.
No, I think that's not right at all. The reason the east coast players aren't good
is the lack of competition, and that's all. SF just isn't as popular anymore since
you can't find competition at any level at 99% of arcades around. With fewer
players, the skill level deteroriates even further. I think another reason is that
many east coast players ignore much of the stuff that's generally taken to be fact,
and try to find playing styles of their own. Now there's nothing wrong with trying
to find your own way to play the game, but it's probably a good idea to find out
what the Cali players are doing to win so much. I don't know whether it's that
people want to be original or whether they're just ignorant... in fact, someone
told me just a few hours ago that Vism is weak, and that Birdie is very strong in
Alpha 2. That was Henry Cen...
spid...@my-dejanews.com
whoa...@aol.com (WhoaMoses) wrote:
> Not really. You obviously didn't realize that I was being sarcastic (then
> again who can tell when you can't hear the person's voice? I'm pretty stupid
> ain't I). Anyways, I am pretty good at Tekken 3, but I know I'm not the best.
> There's always somebody out there who can beat you......and that's why
> neither Valle or Choi or even Viscant (uh-oh, what have I started?) can be
> the undisputed US champion of anything. After all, none of them have played
> me. So there!
Just thought I'd add something here.... some of you on this NG might think
that I'm some random scrub that fell out of the woodwork and beat Viscant,
and that therefore practically anybody anywhere could do the same. I'd just
like to point out that I've been playing the Marvel series around California
for quite a while, and am somewhat considered one of the best Marvel players
(if there is such a thing) in almost every game in the series. I'm sure
quite a few people on this NG could have told you that I would have had at
the very least a good chance of beating Viscant before the whole thread got
started. Additionally, I play MVC with John Choi (who took 2nd to Viscant in
the LV tourney) somewhat regularly, and so I had a pretty good idea of what
to expect. I sincerely doubt that most people could play him and come out
winning. (Not that that justifies one talking down to other people as such.)
--
Dan Thompson (SpiderDan)
[send email to] edge [at] chipware [dot] net
spid...@my-dejanews.com
whoa...@aol.com (WhoaMoses) wrote:
> Okays guys, enough. This rivalry has gone on long enough. How about this:
> let's discuss the players who are really good and why they are good. Why is
> Valle so good? Probably because he spends his whole life in the arcade at
> Sunnyvale or at tournaments.
[snip rest of playing time argument]
Every time I see this type of 'defense' brought up to explain why one
person/group is better than another, I find it hilarious, for several
different reasons:
1) That's not even a serious defense. Do you honestly believe that if you
played basketball as much as Michael Jordan, you'd be just as good? Please.
2) Spending 'your whole life' in an arcade doesn't even make you good! I'm
sure any of the people on this NG can think of someone in a local arcade who
is ALWAYS there, and STILL sucks. This is the case on the east coast, on the
West Coast, in the south, everywhere.
3) Some people are even as ridiculous as to claim that somehow living in
California gives you more time to play video games, apparently because you
don't have to worry about having a job to pay the bills (people in Cali don't
have bills, we all surf and hang out in arcades all day, all times of year).
We have 24 hours in the day just like on the east coast, and anything we want
to get done we have to do in the same amount of time as you. We spend the
same amount of time in arcades as you do; we just get more done (as far as
advancement of skills) in that time (because we have more and better
competition).
o_ev...@hotmail.com
In article <19990121170128...@ng116.aol.com>,
whoa...@aol.com (WhoaMoses) wrote:
> Okays guys, enough. This rivalry has gone on long enough. How about this:
> let's
> discuss the players who are really good and why they are good.
Why? We already have records of tournaments to speak to those facts.
> Why is Valle so
> good? Probably because he spends his whole life in the arcade at Sunnyvale or
> at tournaments. I'd really love to know how these guys support themselves. Do
> they have jobs? Do they go to college? Did they ever even graduate from high
> school? Who knows. I honestly want an answer. I just can't believe that these
> guys, east or west coast (okay so most of them are west coast) are just BETTER
> than everybody else. There has to be a reason. And I'm betting that that
reason
> is because these guys have no life outside of a video arcade.
Cough up the money now because you're wrong.
> I'm not one to brag: I'm good at capcom games but I get beaten too. I think
> that I can honestly say that I'm one of the best in southern Connecticut
(along
> with Tee Carter, we're longtime rivals), but I'm sorry to say that I'm only a
> high school student who has more important things on his mind that traveling
> the country to go to tournaments where I can have the priviledge to play guys
> who's life is Street Fighter 24-7. Obviously I'll get schooled and be ashamed
> of my pitiful skills.
So...then....we can infer that being the best in southern Connecticut isn't
really saying that much?
I mean, hey, let's be real here....I can say (hypothetically, mind you) that
I'm one of the best in San Diego, but does that mean anything when I can't
beat people in other parts of my state? How much would it say about my city
if no one from my city could compete with people from other cities, yet we're
all "good"? Exactly. Not only does it say that you're not good, but it also
says that your city isn't good.
Now, I'm not trying to insult Tee Carter's skills (because I've seen him do
well in tournament results that have been posted), but what I'm trying to say
is that it's one thing to say you're good, but it's another to know how good
you actually are. Heck, at my first tourney (and tons of people can identify
with this, I'm sure), I thought I was going to run ramshod over everybody
with my "superior comboing skillz". Little did I know that it takes much
much more than that to win a tournament. As a result, I went 2 and out. Not
only was I not as good as I thought I was, but I choked up hard during that
tourney. Nerves play a VERY big part in how well you do in a tournament.
You never know how well you'll do in one until you actually get in one.
So, maybe we should start with this: What is your definition of "good"?
Mine is that you can compete with the top 20% of regular tournament players
(in existence) on a consistent basis.
> But I'd rather go to a good college, get a good-paying
> job, and raise a family than be a veritable Ryu, wandering from place to place
> just to win tournaments to make enough money to live. Let's smarten up guys:
> Street Fighter IS NOT a way of life like a lot of people make it out to be.
> It's just a fun game that is meant to be played on the side, while things like
> school, jobs, and family come first.
I HOPE you know what they say about "assumptions"...'cause I ain't typin' it.
Get this: Just because something is out of YOUR reach, doesn't mean that it's
not out of someone else's.
I don't know why people think that just because THEY can't do something, the
rest of the world can't do it, either. It puzzles me greatly.
> And by the way, I have played Valle once in KOF97 when I went to Sunnyvale a
> few years ago. Of course he kicked my ass. He'd probably been playing the game
> for a month before me (it was my first time playing). But it was pitiful that
> he was soooo good in such a short time. I'm willing to bet he spent like the
> whole entire week it came out in the arcade just to find out the most powerful
> characters (can you say Benimaru?) and whoop all the competition from here to
> oblivion like he did to me.
No offense, but that's a scrubby and superficial assessment of Alex Valle's
skill level. The reason why he's good at KoF'97 and Tekken 3 (I DARE you to
play him and talk mess afterward) and Soul Caliber and most (if not all)
Street Fighter games is simple.....the man has a talent. We are all given
different talents in different proportions.
> So once again, I'm sorry to bust all you guys balls, but wisen up. Street
> Fighter is not some great big sports competition with a East coast-West coast
> rivaly. It is only a game. And those like Valle who are supposedly SO good at
> it that they are unbeatable are just sad little kids who haven't grown up yet.
And I suppose YOU are qualified to make that assessment when you haven't seen
any of these people? Your turn to grow up.
> And by the way, somebody tell Valle that I posted this, cuz I want a response
> from him.
Why don't you just go to #capcom on EFNet if you want him so bad. He doesn't
have to defend himself to anyone. The tournament results speak for
themselves.
> Nuff' said.
Indeed. Enough garbage and foolish assumption.
> (By the way, I AM the undisputed champion of Tekken 3 on the East coast.
Tournament wins. Where are they? Where's the beef? If you're the
undisputed champion, then that means that you were in a tournament and won
EVERY SINGLE one of your matches. No losses.
Your head is really big....and it makes it all the easier to pop with my
safety pin...and I don't hold back on the safety pin ever.
Onaje Everett
o_ev...@hotmail.com
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."
-Philippians 4:13
Tony
I'm at the top group of elites here in Montreal and I have developped very
good tactics that I'm sure will give a good challenge to the W.C. players.
And since I'll be heading to Vancouver this summer, I'll pass by
California to look for some challenge.
So watch out for V-Cammy !!
Tony_L
o_ev...@hotmail.com
> >state. He does have a life. I've known the guy for the past 3-4 years and
> >every new SF game or ANY game for that matter he's pretty good at. If you
> >ask
> >his friends or players that have played him, you would know that he has this
> >"natural" instinct to be good on a SF game.
>
> Okay, so maybe this post seemed like it was focus primarily at Alex. I didn't
> mean it to be. I just meant to use Alex as a representation of ALL the
> so-called SF gurus out there, particularly on the west coast.
*coughCOP-OUT!cough*
> >But
> >you are making rash assumptions that because Alex Valle or any other good
> >players in the West Coast are good, that they must be playing the game 24/7.
> >And that is not the case. Also it's not a valid case that just because we
> >get
> >the game sooner that the East coast players lack skills.
>
> Okay, so maybe I'm making assumptions. But I didn't say that I was right in
the
> first place. That's why right at the beginning I asked for someone like Valle
> to respond to see just why these guys are so good in the first place.
Here's an idea, then: If you want a question answered, ask it. Nothing more.
Don't make assumptions that you know aren't true...ESPECIALLY when they're
negative and insulting.
Just because you cannot grasp something...doesn't mean someone else can't. I
suggest that you open your mind to the possibility that is takes MUCH MUCH
more than simply playing a game to get good at it.
> That's just a buncha crap. That case may be so in sports (some people are more
> muscular, or just better athletically built than others, and so are naturally
> better) but no way is it so in video games. I will never dunk on Jordan, but
it
> is possible for me to beat Valle at SF.
It's probably not possible for you to dunk on Jordan because you can't jump
that high, not because he's better than you. There's a difference....and
stick to using analogies that you know something about, while you're at it.
The fact of the matter is that braun alone doesn't make someone a good
athlete. Look at Jerry Rice, the best wide receiver to ever play football
and one of my favorite athletes. He's not the fastest man in the league, nor
was he EVER the fastest man in the league. He certainly wasn't the tallest,
either, though 6'2" ain't bad. The reason why the man is good is because of
his incredible work ethic. He's always been a student of the game and he
works on EVERY aspect of his game, including...get this...the mental aspect.
See, there are running backs in the NFL that are fast, but you'll notice that
there are slower running backs that do better than some of those faster
backs. Why? They're SMARTER. When you can look at what running lanes you
have and pick the right one based on where everyone else is on the field,
you...have...intelligence...and good judgment.
It's exactly the same thing with video games. I've posted this time and time
again (because it's so accurate and if James Chen has a hand in it, it's
gotta be accurate), but I'll type this up so you understand. Skill in Street
Fighter comes down to three things: applied knowledge, manual dexterity, and
mind games.
Applied knowledge is made up of your character's moves, their respective
priorities and ranges, combos, your opponent's capabilities, and, most
importantly, when to use each.
Manual dexterity refers to your ability to handle the joystick. Can you
interrupt a standing move into a double quarter-circle motion? That's a
display of above-average (though the average is rising every day) manual
dexterity. Can you interrupt a standing jab into something like a Final
Atomic Buster with SFA2 Zangief? That's an example of really really good
manual dexterity.
Mind games, which are the final frontier of skill, refer to those things that
require that you out-think your opponent. Throwing your opponent when they're
NOT recovering from a move that leaves them wide open, for example. Traps and
ticking patterns fall into this category.
What is my point? Well....look at the above again. Two out of the three
skills depend solely on the ability of your mind (applied knowledge and mind
games). So, you're telling me that some people don't learn faster than
others? As if I didn't need more proof to prove this wrong, there are people
that have been called gifted students, based on tests and other means of
evaluating one's talents. How do I know? I am one. There is no doubt that
I'm gifted in math. How gifted? Dunno...never put myself in a math
competition. There's no doubt that I rightly earned my trophy saying that I
was my elementary school's best speller (look at the grades). How good?
Well...I entered a spelling bee...and choked. :)
Again, it's one thing to say you're good and another to prove it...and
different people are given different abilities in different quantity.
> That's because anybody can learn to
> hone and refine their minds and reflexes.
But there can only be one person that's better than the rest at it. Surely
you've watched some Highlander? Sword-fighting isn't about strength, it's
about out-thinking your opponent.
> And now we're getting into philosophy
> and I'm getting a headache......
Well...since philosophy has a lot to do with the mind, I can understand that.
Some people are better equipped to handle philosophy than others. I, for
instance, am not getting a headache talking about philosophy.
You supply the holes, I insert my rapier (that's a sword).
> >They have grown up, that don't have to make up excuses on why they suck on
> >games.
>
> I'm not making excuses. I'm just trying to understand why people worship these
> guys, and why there's an East-West rivalry. It's really no big deal, just a
> game.
I suppose you don't have a favorite sports team? C'mon now.
> >>And by the way, somebody tell Valle that I posted this, cuz I want a
> >response
> >>from him.
> >>
> >>Nuff' said.
> >
> >I hope he posts as well.. I would like to hear what he has to say... but I
> >doubt he will.. he's above this lil' chilidish tirade.
> >
>
> If he did post, he'd probably just swear at me for callin him a little kid and
> threaten my life
You are big fool.
-Gen, SFA2/3
You don't know JACK about Alex Valle. You sure enough haven't met him. Yet,
you have the NERVE to ASSUME that he's going to react that way? Who's the
immature one here? Dare I use that analogy of a pot calling a kettle "black"?
Whoa...I just did.
> .......a typical response to any threat.
Funny, I don't do that. In fact, I cut down people like that like I'm doing
you right now. Logic works...especially when you use the right truth values.
:)
> >>(By the way, I AM the undisputed champion of Tekken 3 on the East coast. If
> >>anybody thinks otherwise, come down to old What's Your Game? Arcade in
> >>Bridgeport on a Friday or Saturday night and I'll show you a thing or two.
> >>That
> >>is if I'm working (that's right guys, I have a J-O-B!)
> >
> >So in your argument you said that because the West coast players play so much
> >that they are so good... that must mean you play Tekken 3 ALL DAY 24/7 to get
> >that good??? Is that what you are telling me? Because if you go and reread
> >what you posted that is basically your defense.
>
> Not really. You obviously didn't realize that I was being sarcastic (then
again
> who can tell when you can't hear the person's voice? I'm pretty stupid ain't
> I).
/sarcasm on
I could tell.
/sarcasm off
Not hard...just takes creativity and copying people helps.
> Anyways, I am pretty good at Tekken 3, but I know I'm not the best. There's
> always somebody out there who can beat you......and that's why neither Valle
> or Choi or even Viscant (uh-oh, what have I started?) can be the undisputed US
> champion of anything. After all, none of them have played me. So there!
BUT, until someone else comes out and PROVES it, the facts point to the same
conclusions. Valle is the best there is at Alpha 3...and, yes, west coast
players can go to a tourney in the east and dominate.
You really need to go to the #capcom webpage and look at some of the old
archives in which this issue is dealt with. It's been proven time and time
again.
> (Just on the side, does anybody know if Valle works at Golfland, or used to?
> Cuz when I went it looked like he worked there and at first I didn't recoginze
> him. After about 7 consecutive ass whoopings it hit me though....)
Yes, he works there.
Michael Gilley
games. We were the first city in the U.S. to get the beta of A3. We got it two
weeks before the West coast did, and you know what, Atlanta players STILL SUCK
HARD! It don't matter when you get the game.
BoXfResHn1 wrote:
> There is a simple reason why the west coast players are better than the east
> coast players and it's because they get the games first. West coast players
> have always had the upperhand because of this. When the game comes out in a
> west coast arcade, we get the game like 3 weeks later. I have never seen capcom
> or namco ever put any beta games in east coast. If we had the games the same
> time as they did. The east coast would probably not suck that much. This is one
> of the advantages that the east coast does not have.
>
> ~Henry Cen
Morbid Scorpion
pnt
a
:few years ago. Of course he kicked my ass. He'd probably been playing the
game
:for a month before me (it was my first time playing). But it was pitiful
that
:he was soooo good in such a short time. I'm willing to bet he spent like
the
:whole entire week it came out in the arcade just to find out the most
powerful
:characters (can you say Benimaru?) and whoop all the competition from here
to
:oblivion like he did to me.
Fool
skills carry over, man......
if you were good at the old games, you'd be good at the new ones
because the new ones are like the old ones. don't you remember
the kof tournament where choi took second having barely played
the game before? he asked someone to give him three shotos
and with that alone he took second. hahaha.
what city, and at what arcade in connecticut do you play anyways?
i visit Ct often..but i only went to one arcade last year where
even with my pathetic MvC skills I busted some ass at
some place called TimeOut where the controls sucked and I couldn't
combo into any supers. Pathetic..
James Margaris
>:And by the way, I have played Valle once in KOF97 when I went to Sunnyvale
>a
>:few years ago. Of course he kicked my ass. He'd probably been playing the
>game
>:for a month before me (it was my first time playing). But it was pitiful
>that
>:he was soooo good in such a short time. I'm willing to bet he spent like
>the
>:whole entire week it came out in the arcade just to find out the most
>powerful
>:characters (can you say Benimaru?) and whoop all the competition from here
>to
>:oblivion like he did to me.
>
>
>Fool
>
>skills carry over, man......
>
>if you were good at the old games, you'd be good at the new ones
>because the new ones are like the old ones. don't you remember
>the kof tournament where choi took second having barely played
>the game before? he asked someone to give him three shotos
>and with that alone he took second. hahaha.
This is a good point. Skills in fighting games do carry over. Basic skills
like reflexes, timing, controller motions, etc., are applicable in all
fighting games. Even when the games are fairly different (IE, 2d vs 3d games)
many basic factors are the same. If someone is unpredictable and clever in one
game they will probably be clever in another. Clearly new games have new
features, but most games rely on basics like blocking, block and hit stun,
distancing, priority, etc.
I could beat a fair number of bad Tekken 2 players with Paul
by exclusively using the deathfist? (qct +lp) Even though I didn't know ten
strings or any moves really, or anything about the characters, just my
knowlege of distancing, timing and anticipation let me beat most of the mall
scrubs.
To truly master a game you must play it a fair amount, yes, but
playing other games gives you a tremendous head start.
James M