MvC2 Stuff I hope is fixed
Jinston
news:38854B9A...@net-gate.com...
> There are a few things which need to be fixed in my opinion that were
> severely abused in MvC. First Strider should not be able to work up his
> level when he has his orbs out. I play in tourneys weekly and this is
> one of the most abused tactics.(Orb abuse)
BAH! The orbs are a joke. They do pidly damage and are easily escaped
from. Doing the 4-hit combo w/o them and saving the super for a Duo makes
more sense.
Wolverine can't work up his
> level while in berserker, Strider shouldn't be able to work up his while
> orbs are out.
You already said the Strider thing. Why shouldn't Wolvie level up while
berserk?
Second, I feel that the amount of block damage you take
> from blocking say for example Legion + War Destroyer should be similar
> to the way damage is taken from a combo, ie combo damage decreases with
> each hit so should block damage.
Yep
Bad explanation but I think I get my
> point across. Legion and War Destroyer is another abused tactic in the
> tourneys. Lastly I feel that the difficulty of certain combos as
> compared to the damage done by these combos in MvC is unbalanced. A
> simple c.short,c.forward, c.Fierce, to berserker Barrage X does far too
> much damage and is far too easy.
Everyone but Morrigan and Roll has a combo like this in MvC. Strider too,
but he doesn't need his supers w/ a 4-hit 49% combo.
Damage should be in relation to
> difficulty.
Difficulty? In a vs. game? You're kidding, right?
I can do more damage with the aforementioned combo or the
> Legion- War Destroyer drain than I can get with my double super leaf
> shield Megaman combo.
Then stop doing that combo and do another one that's easy and takes off 50%!
Which takes a lot better timing and I think much
> more skill.
Funny, you have all this skill and timing, but no brains to think of using
another combo!
> Oh one more thing that probably no one else has a problem with. My
> stupid friends who play me at the arcade always hit my start button when
> I get too many wins! Small request from Capcom to be able to disable the
> taunt or make it jab and start at the same time or something.
> Wayne
Pussies where I play hit my start button when I do Gambit's Infinite. Taunt
should be Jab+Short or something.
--
Jinston
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Wayne Davies
severely abused in MvC. First Strider should not be able to work up his
level when he has his orbs out. I play in tourneys weekly and this is
level while in berserker, Strider shouldn't be able to work up his while
from blocking say for example Legion + War Destroyer should be similar
to the way damage is taken from a combo, ie combo damage decreases with
point across. Legion and War Destroyer is another abused tactic in the
tourneys. Lastly I feel that the difficulty of certain combos as
compared to the damage done by these combos in MvC is unbalanced. A
simple c.short,c.forward, c.Fierce, to berserker Barrage X does far too
difficulty. I can do more damage with the aforementioned combo or the
Legion- War Destroyer drain than I can get with my double super leaf
more skill.
Oh one more thing that probably no one else has a problem with. My
Ultima
Bored. Might as well...
> There are a few things which need to be fixed in my opinion that were
> severely abused in MvC. First Strider should not be able to work up his level when he has his orbs out. I play in tourneys weekly and this is one of the most abused tactics. (Orb abuse) Wolverine can't work up his level while in berserker, Strider shouldn't be able to work up his while orbs are out.
Agreed. Unlike Wolverine, Strider only needs minor retooling to make him
a decent character. Three things, in fact:
1) Can't charge meter while in Ouroboros
2) Can't activate the rings the orbs send out (a.ka.a the Donuts of
Doom™) instantaneously (no more pinning opponents from half-screen)
3) His Mini-combo of doom (strong, fierce, roundhouse, longblade) needs
damaging scaling (whici it mysteriously doesn't in MvC, hence why it
does 40% damage).
Just do those things, and leave the rest, and he'd be a decent,
relatively non-cheesy character.
> Second, I feel that the amount of block damage you take
> from blocking say for example Legion + War Destroyer should be similar
> to the way damage is taken from a combo, ie combo damage decreases with each hit so should block damage. Bad explanation but I think I get my point across. Legion and War Destroyer is another abused tactic in the tourneys.
Better solution: Remove Team duos entirely (which I think they've done).
There's no reason for them, and while most suck, the ones that are good
are TOO good (read: Strider/WM and WM/GWM). There IS no real solution to
a decent double WM team...
> Lastly I feel that the difficulty of certain combos as compared to the damage done by these combos in MvC is unbalanced. A simple c.short,c.forward, c.Fierce, to berserker Barrage X does far too
> much damage and is far too easy. Damage should be in relation to
> difficulty. I can do more damage with the aforementioned combo or the
> Legion- War Destroyer drain than I can get with my double super leaf
> shield Megaman combo. Which takes a lot better timing and I think much
> more skill.
*Shrugs* Well, MM does have his launcher, air-combo into Hyper MM that
does a nice amount of damage and isn't too hard. What you mention is
more a problem with Wolverine (who just has way too many combos, too
many weapons, too may tricks, and yet is mindlessly easy to play) than
with the game. What I'd like to see them do is get rid of his damn Fatal
Claw...
> Oh one more thing that probably no one else has a problem with. My
> stupid friends who play me at the arcade always hit my start button when I get too many wins! Small request from Capcom to be able to disable the taunt or make it jab and start at the same time or something.
Eh. That's more your friends' problem, not anyone else's.. :p
--
Ultima - Hopes they leave Zangief in MvC2EXACTLY the way is in MvC ;)
http://members.xoom.com/Ultima1 - The Street Fighter RPG Manifesto!
http://members.xoom.com/ShinUltima - U's Ultimate Rambling Page
"How do you "perfect" gameplay? That's like saying music has
been "perfected" over thousands of years. Fun is a matter of
taste." - Jeff Williams 25/10/99
If an arcade doesn't have a version of SF or SS in it, then it's not an
arcade
Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr.
> BAH! The orbs are a joke. They do pidly damage and are easily escaped
> from. Doing the 4-hit combo w/o them and saving the super for a Duo makes
> more sense.
Perhaps, but they're still an excessive irritant and too easy to pull off.
Scrub friendly.
> Everyone but Morrigan and Roll has a combo like this in MvC. Strider too,
> but he doesn't need his supers w/ a 4-hit 49% combo.
Shadow Lady doesn't. Zangief doesn't (but this doesn't hinder him, what with
his Triple Option and all). Gambit doesn't have a practical one.
Ultima
> > "Wayne Davies" <wayn...@net-gate.com> wrote in message news:38854B9A...@net-gate.com...
> > There are a few things which need to be fixed in my opinion that were severely abused in MvC. First Strider should not be able to
work up his level when he has his orbs out. I play in tourneys weekly
and this is one of the most abused tactics.(Orb abuse)
> BAH! The orbs are a joke. They do pidly damage and are easily escaped from. Doing the 4-hit combo w/o themnd saving the super for a Duo makes more sense.
Right off the bat JB-Ston (™ whoever thought og it first) proves his
ignorance. If you knew anything about a top level Strider, you'd know
that Strider's ability to charge meter during Ouruboros and his ability
to send out the rings instantaneously on start-up is what enables him to
pin opponents down for 40 seconds at a time. In fact, the rings do *no*
damage unless Strider makes contact with his opponent, which is no
problem when he can mask buttons to start sending out rings (preventing
you from jumping), and teleporting next to you. He charges meter, forces
you to block one strong, forward, fiecre, roudnhouse chaine, cancels
into Ouroboros, and repeats.
As for the Duo, this is assuming you're playing with Strder/War Machine
or Strider/Gold War Machine (as they, along with Double WM, are the only
ones with useful really Duos). Tell me genius, what do you do if a)
you're not playing one of the wWar MAchines or b) you're second
character is dead? All your meter goes to Ouroboros. Everything else is
a waste.
> > Wolverine can't work up his level while in berserker, Strider shouldn't be able to work up his while orbs are out.
> You already said the Strider thing. Why shouldn't Wolvie level up while berserk?
Uhm, have you never seen Wolvie in MSF? Y'know, the one with the
(almost) one button 100% damage combo? It's just plain WRONG. Same thing
with Strider being able to charge during Ouroboros...
[remaining crap deleted]
--
Ultima - The Right Arm of Scrub Voltron
Jinston
news:38857EFA...@rit.edu...
> 3) His Mini-combo of doom (strong, fierce, roundhouse, longblade) needs
> damaging scaling (whici it mysteriously doesn't in MvC, hence why it
> does 40% damage).
No mystery about it. It's only 4 hits.
>
> Just do those things, and leave the rest, and he'd be a decent,
> relatively non-cheesy character.
He's not cheesy at all. Orbs are overrated. Just super jump twice and
they're over.
> What I'd like to see them do is get rid of his damn Fatal
> Claw...
Agreed
Jinston
news:38858F72...@cyberspace.org...
> > Everyone but Morrigan and Roll has a combo like this in MvC. Strider
too,
> > but he doesn't need his supers w/ a 4-hit 49% combo.
>
> Shadow Lady doesn't. Zangief doesn't (but this doesn't hinder him, what
with
> his Triple Option and all). Gambit doesn't have a practical one.
>
Who uses Shadow Lady? She's a crappy version of Chun-Li. She totally
slipped my mind.
Zangief, of course! Totally forgot about him too. = /
All I ever do w/ Gambit is attempt to setup the infinite! >=u]
Jinston
>
> Right off the bat JB-Ston (T whoever thought og it first) proves his
> ignorance. If you knew anything about a top level Strider, you'd know
> that Strider's ability to charge meter during Ouruboros and his ability
> to send out the rings instantaneously on start-up is what enables him to
> pin opponents down for 40 seconds at a time. In fact, the rings do *no*
> damage unless Strider makes contact with his opponent, which is no
> problem when he can mask buttons to start sending out rings (preventing
> you from jumping), and teleporting next to you. He charges meter, forces
> you to block one strong, forward, fiecre, roudnhouse chaine, cancels
> into Ouroboros, and repeats.
lemming.
You're losing you're mind every second, aren't you? Shows in your typing.
I use Strider, I mash the PUNCH BUTTONS as soon as I start it then teleport
behind or right in front and I've had the same done to me. Unless Strider
is pretty close, you can Super jump and render it useless. If he's close,
you push, then super jump. Blocking the orbs does practically nothing and
then you can push, super jump, and render it useless. If they do the chain
you wrote, that's plenty of space to super jump before any orbs hit you.
>
> As for the Duo, this is assuming you're playing with Strder/War Machine
> or Strider/Gold War Machine (as they, along with Double WM, are the only
> ones with useful really Duos). Tell me genius, what do you do if a)
> you're not playing one of the wWar MAchines
Why would you not have War Machine as your partner? This is a stupid
question to ask.
or b) you're second
> character is dead?
All your meter goes to Ouroboros. Everything else is
> a waste.
Orbs would just waste time. If you're partner's dead, then you're probably
losing, why would you try to chip away w/ the crappy ass orbs that do
practically no damage even if they hit? All your opponent would have to do
is super jump everywhere and block and wait for time to run out.
>
> > > Wolverine can't work up his level while in berserker, Strider
shouldn't be able to work up his while orbs are out.
>
> > You already said the Strider thing. Why shouldn't Wolvie level up while
berserk?
>
> Uhm, have you never seen Wolvie in MSF? Y'know, the one with the
> (almost) one button 100% damage combo? It's just plain WRONG. Same thing
> with Strider being able to charge during Ouroboros...
We're talking MvC. That combo's gone.
MasSnead2
>then you can push, super jump, and render it useless.
That doesn't always work.
Especially if the Strider has the person in the corner.
As soon as the person push block animation ends, the Strider can dash in and
the Oroburos (i still can't spell that) will catch a super jumper.
If not that, the rings that shoot out will, then the dashing Strider has the
opponent in the corner again.
By this time the super meter is built up and repeat.
Rylan Hilman
wrote:
> Blocking the orbs does practically nothing and
>then you can push, super jump, and render it useless.
Doesn't work. The fact that the Devilot trap works, even while the
other guy is frantically jamming on pushblock, means it's a lot harder
to escape than you'd think...
Strider128
characters.the only thing that keeps r venom away from strider are the constant
oroboros.without them it just grab infinite.and what would strider do against
an experineced wolverine with no orbs.wolvie only needs one combo and its 60%
damage.and if strider has no orb on gwm uhhhhhhhhh......i dont think i have to
go there.
Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr.
> Who uses Shadow Lady? She's a crappy version of Chun-Li. She totally
> slipped my mind.
I do. Why? First off, the Rainbow Missiles - read, deterrance to any super
jumping assaults, jumping assaults from a distance, and War Machine flying
nonsense. Second, her Galaxy Missile in a duo locks down the opponent - very
VERY small chance of escape. All in all, she plays like Chun-Li without the
massive damaging combos, but she can play a decent game of keep away and
doesn't suck in duos like Chun does.
Chocobo
I agree. Strider does NOT need to be toned down... the other characters just need a
little improving on. If anything, maybe the ouroboros could last 1 second less or
something.
Lavander San
<< I agree. Strider does NOT need to be toned down >>
Yes he does. Simple proof in this lies in the fact that no other fighting
game in history... has had one single char.. that is MAJORLY used by 99.9%
of the gaming population.
Simply put.. every game has had their powerhouses... but at least they were
not so omnipotent that every body and their mother used that char. Now with
strider we have a different story... about 99.9% of the people that play MVC
use Strider. If anybody can tell me a char that was more used in any
fighting game than strider.. ill give you a dreamcast. (Uhh.. not really
^_^)
<< He's not cheesy at all. Orbs are overrated. Just super jump twice and
they're over. >>
Jinston.. you are welcome to come down to where I play to see how cheesy
those @#$#$%#^%$ Orbs can be. I've darn nearly lost every brain cell in my
head trying to counter what can barely be considered a strategy... a
strategy called infinite orbs. Come on down to Queens, Familiar Video on
Liberty Ave, some of the East Coast top players play there.. and guess what
they are good. Real good.. and you know what? Their cheesiness with Strider
Orbs are second only to Eddie Lee. In fact.. go to Chinatown and play Eddie'
s strider if you want to see how cheesy orbs can be.
<< if capcom tones strider down that much he would get raped by other top
tier
characters.the only thing that keeps r venom away from strider are the
constant
oroboros.without them it just grab infinite.and what would strider do
against
an experineced wolverine with no orbs.wolvie only needs one combo and its
60% damage.and if strider has no orb on gwm uhhhhhhhhh......i dont think i
have to go there. >>
Well... J.W. ^_^ you've just proven why strider is so darn powerful. If he
is the only character that can handle Gold War-Machine and Red-Venom... than
that says a lot about his over-powering right there. At least the first two
powerhouses mentioned are "secret" chars.
Lavander San (CEO of Anti-Strider Corp)
Chocobo <cho...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3886341D...@mindspring.com...
Chocobo
> Strider does NOT need to be toned down... the other characters just
> need a
> > little improving on. If anything, maybe the ouroboros could last 1
> second less or
> > something.
>
> My goodness...if you don't agree that Strider needs to be toned down,
> you must either be a biased Strider player, or you just haven't played
> any good Striders.
If I see that "you must not have played any good ____" crap again, I'll get
sick.
> 2.) The Oroborous. Let's face it: any super that attempts to give you
> an infinite-combo ability for a limited time is just lame anyway. When
> I first saw this super 2 years ago, I thought it would be either
> devastatingly cheesy, or worthless...well, to most people it is pretty
> worthless. But to a skilled CT player, it is simply step 2 in Strider's
> cheese ability. No Jinston, you are NOT the MvsC god that you seem to
> think you are, the Oroborous is not so easy to get out of. Just push
> block, and super jump??? What planet are you on fool? Any good Strider
> player taps a button, then dashes forward to start you blocking...if
> you super jump right away, he jumps a little and does the QCF+Punch
> teleport-type move to get a ring to touch you on the way down. Either
> way you end up blocking....now try to push-block, go ahead.
Is that right? Even if you superjump right away, he can still hold you in
place? That doesn't sound right to me, then again I've played on a working
MVC about once in the past 6 months.
> 3.) As if these weren't enough, you can use Psylock to do a 100% combo:
> Psylocke, Legion, Psylocke, another Legion, Psylocke, Legion...and you
> can stick an Oroborous, teleport behind anywhere in there too. So have
> fun.
>
> If Strider isn't toned down, the game will suck. Nuff' said.
I still think he's a good character, like XSF Cyclops or Charlie, MVC
Wolverine, MSH Iron Man... a nice strong character with lots of good stuff
to use. Why does he have to be weakened? Just give more good stuff to the
other characters, it beats turning the game into MSF.
Chocobo
> << I agree. Strider does NOT need to be toned down >>
>
> Yes he does. Simple proof in this lies in the fact that no other fighting
> game in history... has had one single char.. that is MAJORLY used by 99.9%
> of the gaming population.
>
> Simply put.. every game has had their powerhouses... but at least they were
> not so omnipotent that every body and their mother used that char. Now with
> strider we have a different story... about 99.9% of the people that play MVC
> use Strider. If anybody can tell me a char that was more used in any
> fighting game than strider.. ill give you a dreamcast. (Uhh.. not really
> ^_^)
Probably Ryu in most SFs was used more, overall. The popularity of a character
has nothing to do with the character's strength. I fail to see how that's
"proof".
>
> << He's not cheesy at all. Orbs are overrated. Just super jump twice and
> they're over. >>
>
> Jinston.. you are welcome to come down to where I play to see how cheesy
> those @#$#$%#^%$ Orbs can be. I've darn nearly lost every brain cell in my
> head trying to counter what can barely be considered a strategy... a
> strategy called infinite orbs. Come on down to Queens, Familiar Video on
> Liberty Ave, some of the East Coast top players play there.. and guess what
> they are good. Real good.. and you know what? Their cheesiness with Strider
> Orbs are second only to Eddie Lee. In fact.. go to Chinatown and play Eddie'
> s strider if you want to see how cheesy orbs can be.
Unless it's the controllers (which it often is, around here) why can't you
superjump? Not that the orbs aren't good, though.
> Well... J.W. ^_^ you've just proven why strider is so darn powerful. If he
> is the only character that can handle Gold War-Machine and Red-Venom... than
> that says a lot about his over-powering right there. At least the first two
> powerhouses mentioned are "secret" chars.
C.Commando beats GWM, does that mean anything? No. And whether a character is
hidden or not means nothing, also.
EC
<XCAL...@prodigy.net> wrote:
><<<SNIP>>>
>Jinston.. you are welcome to come down to where I play to see how cheesy
>those @#$#$%#^%$ Orbs can be. I've darn nearly lost every brain cell in my
>head trying to counter what can barely be considered a strategy... a
>strategy called infinite orbs. Come on down to Queens, Familiar Video on
>Liberty Ave, some of the East Coast top players play there.. and guess what
>they are good. Real good.. and you know what? Their cheesiness with Strider
>Orbs are second only to Eddie Lee. In fact.. go to Chinatown and play Eddie'
>s strider if you want to see how cheesy orbs can be.
>
GOD DAMN! You're telling me there is a decent place to play on Liberty
Ave? Where on liberty? I used to be there all the damn time...
Richmond Hill g-f. Oh well.. Too bad I'm moving in 2 weeks....
E
<<<SNIP SNIP SNIP>>>
Ultima
>
> "Ultima" <jas...@rit.edu> wrote in message
> news:3885ADFB...@rit.edu...
> >
> > Right off the bat JB-Ston (T whoever thought og it first) proves his
> > ignorance. If you knew anything about a top level Strider, you'd know
> > that Strider's ability to charge meter during Ouruboros and his ability
> > to send out the rings instantaneously on start-up is what enables him to
> > pin opponents down for 40 seconds at a time. In fact, the rings do *no*
> > damage unless Strider makes contact with his opponent, which is no
> > problem when he can mask buttons to start sending out rings (preventing
> > you from jumping), and teleporting next to you. He charges meter, forces you to block one strong, forward, fiecre, roudnhouse chaine, cancels into Ouroboros, and repeats.
>
> lemming.
Shitsnake.
> You're losing you're mind every second, aren't you? Shows in your typing. I use Strider, I mash the PUNCH BUTTONS as soon as I start it then teleport behind or right in front and I've had the same done to me.
Unless Strider is pretty close, you can Super jump and render it
useless. If he's close, you push, then super jump. 1Blocking the orbs
does practically nothing and then you can push, super jump, and render
it useless. If they do the chain you wrote, that's plenty of space to
super jump before any orbs hit you.
Maybe. But you see, what you don't realise is that YOU can't do
anything. Strider can do Ouroboros, mash buttons, teleport ALL DAY and
there's almost NOTHING you can do if he spaces himself right.
Super-jump? Sometimes you'll get the chance, sometimes you won't. (BTW,
Strider can chase after you if you sj. easily by using the air ame no
murakumo - that's the only time that move actually becomes useful). Like
I said, he'll keep you blocking for 40 seconds at a time while chipping
you to death, letting his partner heal, preventing you from chargin,
etc. It has to be seen in action to truly be appreciated.
> >
> > As for the Duo, this is assuming you're playing with Strder/War Machine or Strider/Gold War Machine (as they, along with Double WM, are the only ones with useful really Duos). Tell me genius, what do you do if a) you're not playing one of the wWar MAchines
> Why would you not have War Machine as your partner? This is a stupid
> question to ask.
Well excuse ME for actually DARING to choose someone *other* than the
top three teams. Would you fault if I told you I liked to play A-Karin
in A3, Bison in HF, Guy & Sodom in A2, etc. as well? Fucking idiot...
Besides, this isn't an issue of "what to do with Strider & some War
Machine". That's a different story, as War Machine (both) is the weak
link in the team. In fact, when NOT paired with Strider or another War
Machine, neither War Machine is that much more of a threat. Strider, on
the other hand, is a threat no matter who he's paired with. He's
overpowered, though as I said, he only needs minor tweaking. Wolvie
needs an overhaul...
> or b) you're second character is dead?
> All your meter goes to Ouroboros. Everything else is a waste.
>
> Orbs would just waste time. If you're partner's dead, then you're probably losing, why would you try to chip away w/ the crappy ass orbs that do practically no damage even if they hit? All your opponent would have to do is super jump everywhere and block and wait for time to run out.
Dumbass. Regardless of whether Strider's winning or not, he has no other
use for meter (other than duo). Legion can almost always be avoided, and
Ragnarok is useless. And Strider's ability to comeback with meter is
second to no other character. The orbs are definitel NOT a waste of time
(especially if you have any Lou left, which you most likely will). Like
I said, you need to see it in action to truly appreciate it. I'm talking
Eddie Lee level of playing here...
> > > > Wolverine can't work up his level while in berserker, Strider
> shouldn't be able to work up his while orbs are out.
> >
> > > You already said the Strider thing. Why shouldn't Wolvie level up while berserk?
> >
> > Uhm, have you never seen Wolvie in MSF? Y'know, the one with the
> > (almost) one button 100% damage combo? It's just plain WRONG. Same thing with Strider being able to charge during Ouroboros...
>
> We're talking MvC. That combo's gone.
Right. But the principle's the same. He should not be allowed to charge
during it, as it gives him the option to charge up safely almost
indefinitely.
UrkAngiJordi
> Lavander San wrote:
>
> > << I agree. Strider does NOT need to be toned down >>
> >
> > Yes he does. Simple proof in this lies in the fact that no other
fighting
> > game in history... has had one single char.. that is MAJORLY used by
99.9%
> > of the gaming population.
> >
> > Simply put.. every game has had their powerhouses... but at least they
were
> > not so omnipotent that every body and their mother used that char. Now
with
> > strider we have a different story... about 99.9% of the people that play
MVC
> > use Strider. If anybody can tell me a char that was more used in any
> > fighting game than strider.. ill give you a dreamcast. (Uhh.. not really
> > ^_^)
>
> Probably Ryu in most SFs was used more, overall. The popularity of a
character
> has nothing to do with the character's strength. I fail to see how that's
> "proof".
>
I find that in my area, the popularity of a character is almost immediately
linked to the strength of the character. Moreso if the character is
extremely scrub friendly, then the popularity is absolute.
UrkAngiJordi
UrkAngiJordi
Lavander San <XCAL...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:865lft$bms0$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com...
>
> << I agree. Strider does NOT need to be toned down >>
>
> Yes he does. Simple proof in this lies in the fact that no other fighting
> game in history... has had one single char.. that is MAJORLY used by 99.9%
> of the gaming population.
>
> Simply put.. every game has had their powerhouses... but at least they
were
> not so omnipotent that every body and their mother used that char. Now
with
> strider we have a different story... about 99.9% of the people that play
MVC
> use Strider. If anybody can tell me a char that was more used in any
> fighting game than strider.. ill give you a dreamcast. (Uhh.. not really
> ^_^)
I can't say they were used that much more but these were close.....drumroll
please....
Brocken in World Heroes (five shorts, and its over, the world's easiest 100%
combo)
Ukyo in Samurai Showdown 2
Chun Li in Alpha 2 (This was just sick to watch)
Chun Li in 3S (This IS just sick to watch)
Paul Phoenix in Tekken 2
Akira in VF2 and 3 (I just call it Akira the game with special guests,
everybody else)
Brian Yip
JB Gainz wrote:
> >Yes he does. Simple proof in this lies in the fact that no other fighting
> >game in history... has had one single char.. that is MAJORLY used by 99.9%
> >of the gaming population.
> >
>
> SFII
> *cough*
> Ryu
> *cough*
> .
> .
> .
> " I'll kick Zangief's ass" - King of Tekken Tag Tournament
whoa...@my-deja.com
need a
> little improving on. If anything, maybe the ouroboros could last 1
second less or
> something.
My goodness...if you don't agree that Strider needs to be toned down,
you must either be a biased Strider player, or you just haven't played
any good Striders. I live in CT, and if anybody remembers ECC4, they'll
remember how CT represented in the MvsC tourney. There are some really
good Strider players here, who make life hard for anybody else (even
Wolverine!) How, you ask??? Well..
1.) Strider has INSANE priority over most other characters' normal
attacks. His standing forward is just ridiculous....try to do a dashing-
in combo with Wolvie, go ahead, against a Strider standing forward, and
just see what happens....a 4-hit 40% combo, that's what!
And his jumping forward is sick too....Strider can basically stay in
the air all day if he wants, just jumping and using well-timed normal
attacks because of that damned sword.
2.) The Oroborous. Let's face it: any super that attempts to give you
an infinite-combo ability for a limited time is just lame anyway. When
I first saw this super 2 years ago, I thought it would be either
devastatingly cheesy, or worthless...well, to most people it is pretty
worthless. But to a skilled CT player, it is simply step 2 in Strider's
cheese ability. No Jinston, you are NOT the MvsC god that you seem to
think you are, the Oroborous is not so easy to get out of. Just push
block, and super jump??? What planet are you on fool? Any good Strider
player taps a button, then dashes forward to start you blocking...if
you super jump right away, he jumps a little and does the QCF+Punch
teleport-type move to get a ring to touch you on the way down. Either
way you end up blocking....now try to push-block, go ahead. If you're
playing a good Strider player, he's already done 2 of the 4-hit ground
combos and charged another super meter. And sometimes they teleport
right behind you, forcing you to block with no escape...and no, you
CAN'T super jump after a push block because the rings still keep you
blocking, idiot. Your haughty, know-it-all attitude is not appreciated,
especially when you're WRONG.
3.) As if these weren't enough, you can use Psylock to do a 100% combo:
Psylocke, Legion, Psylocke, another Legion, Psylocke, Legion...and you
can stick an Oroborous, teleport behind anywhere in there too. So have
fun.
If Strider isn't toned down, the game will suck. Nuff' said.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
JB Gainz
Strider128
J.W.
Strider128
Strider128
and 3 at 4.5 so i really dont suck. if you want some compition just post when
you can make it and i'll be there.if you want i'll call eddie and arturo and
tell them 2 come.and there a tournament there on saturday so any one who needs
directions just ask.
Wayne Davies
regular Thursday player.
Wayne
Lavander San
I was talking about obssesive use of Orbs.
I think eddie runs Infinite orbs more than you. Just a lil.
Lavander-San (CEO of Anti-Strider Corp)
Strider128 <strid...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000119232351...@ng-bk1.aol.com...
Lavander San
Ok lets talk realistic stats here.
When SF2WW just came out I remember alot of people using Ken and Ryu, alot
meaning.... about 60%. And that number was split almost evenly between the
two.
And thats as far as it went.
Now MvC comes along.. and literaly 85% of the popultion that plays the game
uses strider as their main char. That says a whole lot about strider right
there.
He is the most overused character in any fighting game ever made. And its
NOT because he is cool.
Lavander San ^_^
JB Gainz <jbg...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000119232114...@ng-cb1.aol.com...
Lavander San
Combine all those guys into one and they still won't be as overused as
strider is.
Lavander San
UrkAngiJordi <eric....@starpower.net> wrote in message
news:86669g$60a$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
>
> Lavander San <XCAL...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:865lft$bms0$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> > << I agree. Strider does NOT need to be toned down >>
> >
> > Yes he does. Simple proof in this lies in the fact that no other
fighting
> > game in history... has had one single char.. that is MAJORLY used by
99.9%
> > of the gaming population.
> >
Kazumi Jin
place?>>
Well ive tested a wee bit on the DC against wolvie and WM with this and came up
with a few observations. I do know that number 2 is valid on the arcade for
sure.
1) If strider does a 4 hit ground chain ( jab thru forward, or strong thru RH)
on wolvie/wm then goes into the orbs there is a small window that wolvie/wm
can superjump out of to avoid the donuts.
2) Even if wolvie/wm doesnt jump between the 4 hit ground chain and the
activation of the orbs, they can immediately switch out from here at which
point 2 things can happen:
a. Since Strider is mashin on the buttons to get the donuts out he will take a
kick to the face (sometimes cleanly, sometimes trading 2-3 hits off the donuts,
but either way strider is knocked down)
b. If strider does not mash the buttons and blocks, wolvie/wm proceeds to get
comboed since the partner is left open.
3) If strider does a 2 hit jab short, or end similarly close then go to the
orbs you cant escape the donuts. (at least i couldnt with these 2 testees)
So we got a bit of a guessing game on our hands...tag out?, super jump?,
block?, walk away sobbingly?, quit for indiscernable amouts of time? (Choc?)
IMO no chargin meter with the BORE-us, BORE-us (Copyright Mike Z 1999) for mvc2
isnt a bad Idea. Ultima wasnt overexaggerating about being stuck for days
though. I got pelted with Michelle Hearts and Donuts for a good 20 seconds
straight...in real time.
Chris
JB Gainz
At some point I know everyone played Ken and Ryu. I consider then the same..
since they were. But at my arcade there definitely was a guile phase and a
Chun Li scrub phase, not that she is scrubby.
Kazumi Jin
Wolvie/WM blocked the initial hits before the orbs or didnt......also ends the
same in the corner or midscreen.
Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr.
> Unless Strider
> is pretty close, you can Super jump and render it useless.
Duh. He super jumps, then Excalibur/Ame no Murakumos (whatever you call it) -
you block.
> If he's close,
> you push, then super jump.
You can't push if he doesn't fire any orbs. Before you say, "Then it does no
chipping, duh", let me just say that if Devilot comes out, you're gonna be
grunting.
> Blocking the orbs does practically nothing and
> then you can push, super jump, and render it useless. If they do the chain
> you wrote, that's plenty of space to super jump before any orbs hit you.
Super jumping is iffy. All Strider Hiryu has to do is super jump after you and
you're locked down.
> Why would you not have War Machine as your partner? This is a stupid
> question to ask.
Uhm, because some people like different teams? Idiot!
> Orbs would just waste time. If you're partner's dead, then you're probably
> losing, why would you try to chip away w/ the crappy ass orbs that do
> practically no damage even if they hit? All your opponent would have to do
> is super jump everywhere and block and wait for time to run out.
Unless you use Devilot, in which case they have to pray they don't get locked
down. Super jumping is iffy, and if Strider Hiryu gets the opportunity he CAN
lock you down. Have you played this game against anyone who knows their stuff?
Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr.
> Unless it's the controllers (which it often is, around here) why can't you
> superjump? Not that the orbs aren't good, though.
If Strider Hiryu sees it coming, super jumping is iffy.
Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr.
> SINCE WHEN IS MY STRIDER SECOND 2 EDDIE'S!!!!!!!!!!
Since always.
Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr.
> In fact, when NOT paired with Strider or another War
> Machine, neither War Machine is that much more of a threat.
Respectfully I would ask... why do you say this? WM by himself has a rather good shot against most characters. He can be VERY hard to catch. GWM, on the other hand, is a great big bullseye on his own. Also, WM/SL duo does respectable chipping and is harder to escape.
> The orbs are definitel NOT a waste of time
> (especially if you have any Lou left, which you most likely will).
Devilot, too.
Jinston
> No Jinston, you are NOT the MvsC god that you seem to
> think you are, the Oroborous is not so easy to get out of. Just push
> block, and super jump??? What planet are you on fool? Any good Strider
> player taps a button, then dashes forward to start you blocking...
They also mash the punches then teleport behind or right in front of you.
> if
> you super jump right away, he jumps a little and does the QCF+Punch
> teleport-type move to get a ring to touch you on the way down.
Then you move to the other side in the air. Besides, rings do crap damage
and it's half gone by the time you land.
Either
> way you end up blocking....now try to push-block, go ahead. If you're
> playing a good Strider player, he's already done 2 of the 4-hit ground
> combos and charged another super meter.
Nope. Super jumped. If I block on the way down, he MAYBE got 1 combo.
And sometimes they teleport
> right behind you, forcing you to block with no escape...
Nope! Teleporting is SLOWER than dashing and is only used when far away.
Far enough away that you can easily Super jump in time.
and no, you
> CAN'T super jump after a push block because the rings still keep you
> blocking, idiot.
Depends on when the things make you block. They're not a steady stream.
Your haughty, know-it-all attitude is not appreciated,
> especially when you're WRONG.
I've disproved every argument you've made. I never stated anything about
being a pro at MvC. You just think you're the man and was threatened by me.
Now you're here trying to wave your (what you think is...) big stick around.
--
Jinston
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Jinston
news:20000120020940...@ng-ci1.aol.com...
> <<Is that right? Even if you superjump right away, he can still hold you
in
> place?>>
>
> Well ive tested a wee bit on the DC against wolvie and WM with this and
came up
> with a few observations. I do know that number 2 is valid on the arcade
for
> sure.
>
> 1) If strider does a 4 hit ground chain ( jab thru forward, or strong
thru RH)
> on wolvie/wm then goes into the orbs there is a small window that
wolvie/wm
> can superjump out of to avoid the donuts.
Same in the arcade as I stated in another post. Works for everyone in my
experience.
>
> 2) Even if wolvie/wm doesnt jump between the 4 hit ground chain and the
> activation of the orbs, they can immediately switch out from here at which
> point 2 things can happen:
>
> a. Since Strider is mashin on the buttons to get the donuts out he will
take a
> kick to the face (sometimes cleanly, sometimes trading 2-3 hits off the
donuts,
> but either way strider is knocked down)
>
> b. If strider does not mash the buttons and blocks, wolvie/wm proceeds to
get
> comboed since the partner is left open.
Why would you NOT super jump?
>
> 3) If strider does a 2 hit jab short, or end similarly close then go to
the
> orbs you cant escape the donuts. (at least i couldnt with these 2
testees)
This doesn't make sense. How can jab, short block stun hold you long enough
for the orbs and donuts to come out and make you block? Please explain. If
someone ended the orbs while I was blocking w/ jab short, I'd just super
jump when they did more orbs.
>
> So we got a bit of a guessing game on our hands...tag out?, super jump?,
> block?, walk away sobbingly?, quit for indiscernable amouts of time?
(Choc?)
No guessing game, just Super jump. Simple.
Jinston
news:3886C6BE...@cyberspace.org...
> Jinston wrote:
>
> > Unless Strider
> > is pretty close, you can Super jump and render it useless.
>
> Duh. He super jumps, then Excalibur/Ame no Murakumos (whatever you call
it) -
> you block.
You take hardly any damage, you push, you fall, you get away w/ another
super jump.
>
> > If he's close,
> > you push, then super jump.
>
> You can't push if he doesn't fire any orbs. Before you say, "Then it does
no
> chipping, duh", let me just say that if Devilot comes out, you're gonna be
> grunting.
>
> > Blocking the orbs does practically nothing and
> > then you can push, super jump, and render it useless. If they do the
chain
> > you wrote, that's plenty of space to super jump before any orbs hit you.
>
> Super jumping is iffy. All Strider Hiryu has to do is super jump after
you and
> you're locked down.
Nope, you block a couple rings and orb hits, push, then fall.
<Snip childishness and other things>
Jinston
> Jinston wrote:
> >
> > "Ultima" <jas...@rit.edu> wrote in message
> > news:3885ADFB...@rit.edu...
> > >
> > > Right off the bat JB-Ston (T whoever thought og it first) proves his
> > > ignorance. If you knew anything about a top level Strider, you'd know
> > > that Strider's ability to charge meter during Ouruboros and his
ability
> > > to send out the rings instantaneously on start-up is what enables him
to
> > > pin opponents down for 40 seconds at a time. In fact, the rings do
*no*
> > > damage unless Strider makes contact with his opponent, which is no
> > > problem when he can mask buttons to start sending out rings
(preventing
> > > you from jumping), and teleporting next to you. He charges meter,
forces you to block one strong, forward, fiecre, roudnhouse chaine, cancels
into Ouroboros, and repeats.
> >
> > lemming.
>
> Shitsnake.
wtf? This has no meaning. I bet you don't even understand why I called you
a lemming.
>
> > or b) you're second character is dead?
>
> > All your meter goes to Ouroboros. Everything else is a waste.
> >
> > Orbs would just waste time. If you're partner's dead, then you're
probably losing, why would you try to chip away w/ the crappy ass orbs that
do practically no damage even if they hit? All your opponent would have to
do is super jump everywhere and block and wait for time to run out.
>
> Dumbass. Regardless of whether Strider's winning or not, he has no other
> use for meter (other than duo). Legion can almost always be avoided, and
> Ragnarok is useless. And Strider's ability to comeback with meter is
> second to no other character. The orbs are definitel NOT a waste of time
> (especially if you have any Lou left, which you most likely will). Like
> I said, you need to see it in action to truly appreciate it. I'm talking
> Eddie Lee level of playing here...
Dumb-ass, you don't get it. If your partner's dead, you're probably losing.
And unless you totally suck ass or the guy's just 100 times better than you,
there won't be that much time left. Doing the orbs 'til time runs out
probably won't do enough chip damage for you to win. It's better to try get
a few combos in.
Mouko-The Fierce Tiger
>RH)
>on wolvie/wm then goes into the orbs there is a small window that wolvie/wm
>can superjump out of to avoid the donuts.
a good strider will not activate it after that combo..he will activate it after
a s.fierce or s.rh, in which it will combo. Unescapable.
any combo ending with a s.fierce/rh-oro-3P dash AND donut. then you're in for a
big ride.
Peter "Mouko" Nguyen
~Xero-Crew~
Untitled Computer Fighter in the works...
http://members.aol.com/xerocrew/
EC
>>Yes he does. Simple proof in this lies in the fact that no other fighting
>>game in history... has had one single char.. that is MAJORLY used by 99.9%
>>of the gaming population.
>>
>
>SFII
>*cough*
>Ryu
>*cough*
What?
Try Guile in SF2....
Kazumi Jin
Well it gives you an opportunity to knock them down and trade out...with risk
of course.
<<This doesn't make sense. How can jab, short block stun hold you long enough
for the orbs and donuts to come out and make you block? Please explain. If
someone ended the orbs while I was blocking w/ jab short, I'd just super
jump when they did more orbs.>>
well it does hold you in block stun....and you are close enough to not be able
to super jump out of it. Im just talking about gettin in the trap....not the
actual trap itself.
Kazumi Jin
after
a s.fierce or s.rh, in which it will combo. Unescapable.>>
Ahhh well, I thought the big concern was the 4 hit.....didnt even bother with
that.
Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr.
wrote:
>You take hardly any damage, you push, you fall, you get away w/ another
>super jump.
Pushblock in a SUPER JUMP? You are nuts. That is so exploitable.
>Nope, you block a couple rings and orb hits, push, then fall.
See above.
Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr.
wrote:
>Why would you NOT super jump?
If you anticipate Strider super jumping, it's a gamble worth taking.
>No guessing game, just Super jump. Simple.
Super jump is not the answer. I think it's already been explained.
Don't give me that "push block in mid-air" beeswax either. That is a
recipe for death.
Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr.
wrote:
>I've disproved every argument you've made. I never stated anything about
>being a pro at MvC. You just think you're the man and was threatened by me.
>Now you're here trying to wave your (what you think is...) big stick around.
Wrong-o. WE have disproved you... super jumping doesn't work
(always), and pushblocking DEFINITELY doesn't work. Do you have
anything else, or are you going to keep on repeating the same
disproven arguments?
Strider128
making stupid assumptions. idiot.are you on eddies dick that hard that since
hes eddie lee hes better than the world.loser
Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr.
Geez, relax. It was a joke. *rolls eyes*
Ludmila Monin
> because you make the most idotic arguments I've ever heard. Obviously you've
> never played a GOOD Strider before, but I have, so I must tell you that you
> are wrong. I've played Eddie Lee's Strider and others that play like him and
> I'm telling you that it's almost impossible to escape the orbs. They will find
> you wherever you go. If you super jump, they'll chase you and lock you down.
> Just try to push block and see what happens to you. If they catch you on the
> ground, they'll throw the rings so they can get near you and lock you down
> that way. Just give it up, because you're wrong. You're just wrong
UrkAngiJordi
>
> Ok lets talk realistic stats here.
>
> When SF2WW just came out I remember alot of people using Ken and Ryu, alot
> meaning.... about 60%. And that number was split almost evenly between the
> two.
>
> And thats as far as it went.
>
> Now MvC comes along.. and literaly 85% of the popultion that plays the
game
> uses strider as their main char. That says a whole lot about strider right
> there.
>
> He is the most overused character in any fighting game ever made. And its
> NOT because he is cool.
For the longest time when MvsC came out I first saw alot of Wolvies and
Spiders everywhere. Strider took over approximately 3 months after that. I
remember in SF2WW that by about 6 months in Guile suddenly was everywhere.
But you are right about Strider's cheapness.
UrkAngiJordi
Ultima
> > Jinston wrote:
[snip]
> > > lemming.
> > Shitsnake.
> wtf? This has no meaning. I bet you don't even understand why I called you a lemming.
I know. You figure I'm a lemming for flaming you (i.e. jumping on a
bandwagon). You're wrong. I flamed you because you're an idiot. I'm the
LAST person to jump on a flaming bandwagon. You'vde spouted trash on
this newsgroup for way more than a year now before you've heard anything
from me.
> > > or b) you're second character is dead?
> > > All your meter goes to Ouroboros. Everything else is a waste.
> > >
> > > Orbs would just waste time. If you're partner's dead, then you're
> probably losing, why would you try to chip away w/ the crappy ass orbs that
> do practically no damage even if they hit? All your opponent would have to
> do is super jump everywhere and block and wait for time to run out.
> >
> > Dumbass. Regardless of whether Strider's winning or not, he has no other
> > use for meter (other than duo). Legion can almost always be avoided, and
> > Ragnarok is useless. And Strider's ability to comeback with meter is
> > second to no other character. The orbs are definitel NOT a waste of time
> > (especially if you have any Lou left, which you most likely will). Like
> > I said, you need to see it in action to truly appreciate it. I'm talking
> > Eddie Lee level of playing here...
>
> Dumb-ass, you don't get it. If your partner's dead, you're probably losing. And unless you totally suck ass or the guy's just 100 times better than you, there won't be that much time left. Doing the orbs 'til time runs out probably won't do enough chip damage for you to win. It's better to try get a few combos in.
NO, shit-snake, YOU don't get it. Strider with Orbs is the safest
attacking threat in the game. ALL you can do is run. You can't
counter-attack So Strider can attack, attack, attack all day long. His
offense doesn't take "no" for an answer. Strider doesn't need to change
his attacking strategy when he's winning or not or whether time's
running out or not. After all, if he's losing and time's running out, he
has to attack you anyway. Why not do it under the protection of the orbs
when he can't be counter-attacked?
Besides, Strider's cheesiness doesn't come into play when he's losing
(well it can, but not as dramatically). It comes into play when in close
matches, when it's down to your last character vs. Strider and you both
only have about 20%, and Strider has meter. Guess what? Unless you're
100 times better than he is, YOU LOSE.
--
Ultima - The Right Arm of Scrub Voltron
http://members.xoom.com/Ultima1 - The Street Fighter RPG Manifesto!
http://members.xoom.com/ShinUltima - U's Ultimate Rambling Page
"How do you "perfect" gameplay? That's like saying music has
been "perfected" over thousands of years. Fun is a matter of
taste." - Jeff Williams 25/10/99
If an arcade doesn't have a version of SF or SS in it, then it's not an
arcade
Jinston
> Jinston wrote:
> >
> > "Ultima" <jas...@rit.edu> wrote in message
> > news:38867F61...@rit.edu...
> > > Jinston wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > > > lemming.
>
> > > Shitsnake.
>
> > wtf? This has no meaning. I bet you don't even understand why I called
you a lemming.
>
> I know. You figure I'm a lemming for flaming you (i.e. jumping on a
> bandwagon). You're wrong. I flamed you because you're an idiot. I'm the
> LAST person to jump on a flaming bandwagon. You'vde spouted trash on
> this newsgroup for way more than a year now before you've heard anything
> from me.
WRONG!
Because your opponent simply has to sit there and block and wait for time to
run out you shit head. Or beam super. W/o the orbs, you have to option to
throw and let the opponent MOVE so he/she can make a mistake for you to
attack on. Idiot. Total idiot.
>
> Besides, Strider's cheesiness doesn't come into play when he's losing
> (well it can, but not as dramatically). It comes into play when in close
> matches, when it's down to your last character vs. Strider and you both
> only have about 20%, and Strider has meter. Guess what? Unless you're
> 100 times better than he is, YOU LOSE.
Wrong. You dodge the orbs as I pointed out, he runs out of bar, you attack.
Or just beam super.
Ultima
Whoops. Forgot to reply to this one sooner...
> Ultima wrote:
> > In fact, when NOT paired with Strider or another War
> > Machine, neither War Machine is that much more of a threat.
> Respectfully I would ask... why do you say this? WM by himself has a rather good shot against most characters. He can be VERY hard to catch.
True. But the only character he beats by himself is Zangief (*sniff*), I
think. War Machine is a good character, make no mistake. Possibly top
tier (upper-middle for the very least). But it's only when paired with
another WM or with Strider that WM becomes a *massive* threat. When he
gets level 3, you're going to lose 50% energy or more one way or the
other (unless the WM player screws up). Pair WM with, say Cap. America,
CapCom, or Hulk. Then WM's just another strong character.
> GWM, on the other hand, is a great big bullseye on his own. Also, WM/SL duo does respectable chipping and is harder to escape.
SL sucks. End of story. I know you use her, but ultimate she's just Chun
Li with no good combos (that I know of). She gets mauled by any one with
a better character who knows what they're doing. Even if the WM/SL duo
does respectable chip damage, SL doesn't survive long enough for the duo
to make a difference in a match. The problem with the unholy trio of
Strider/WM/GWM is that all of them can charge up very quickly while
easily weathering any offense against them AND doing damage in return
(GWM can chip from far, trade for ever, take a lot of damage and run, WM
can run away even better and chip from far, and Strider is... well,
Strider ;) If all that trio could do was duo, and their regular
attacking, defending and meter-charging sucked, then they would merely
be that - a team with a good duo. They would certainly not make up the
No.1, 2 and 3 teams in the game. But as it turns out, they can do all
three very well, which means the threat of the duo is constant, and they
win on chip damage alone.
> > The orbs are definitel NOT a waste of time
> > (especially if you have any Lou left, which you most likely will).
> Devilot, too.
I've yet to get hit by the Devilot trap, actually, but I know it's
nasty. Saw poor Spiderdan at ECC4 lose 100% energy with Hyper Venom to a
Strider with about a pixel of life with that crap. =\
Ultima
[crap deleted]
> > > > > All your meter goes to Ouroboros. Everything else is a waste.
> > > > > Orbs would just waste time. If you're partner's dead, then you're probably losing, why would you try to chip away w/ the crappy ass orbs that do practically no damage even if they hit? All your opponent would have to do is super jump everywhere and block and wait for time to run out.
> > > > Dumbass. Regardless of whether Strider's winning or not, he has no other use for meter (other than duo). Legion can almost always be avoided, and Ragnarok is useless. And Strider's ability to comeback with meter is second to no other character. The orbs are definitel NOT a waste of time (especially if you have any Lou left, which you most likely will). Like I said, you need to see it in action to truly appreciate it. I'm talking Eddie Lee level of playing here...
> > > Dumb-ass, you don't get it. If your partner's dead, you're probably losing. And unless you totally suck ass or the guy's just 100 times better than you, there won't be that much time left. Doing the orbs 'til time runs out probably won't do enough chip damage for you to win. It's better to try get a few combos in.
> > NO, shit-snake, YOU don't get it. Strider with Orbs is the safest
> > attacking threat in the game. ALL you can do is run. You can't
> > counter-attack So Strider can attack, attack, attack all day long. His offense doesn't take "no" for an answer. Strider doesn't need to change his attacking strategy when he's winning or not or whether time's
> > running out or not. After all, if he's losing and time's running out, he has to attack you anyway. Why not do it under the protection of the orbs when he can't be counter-attacked?
> Because your opponent simply has to sit there and block and wait for time to run out you shit head. Or beam super.
Beam super only if Strider lets you. Otherwise, you ARE just going to
sit there and block. And block. And block. And block... all while your
energy goes slowly down. If Strider's losing by a wide margin (how often
is that?), it doesn't matter. BUt if it's even remotely close, Strider
can't lose.
> W/o the orbs, you have to option to throw and let the opponent MOVE so he/she can make a mistake for you to attack on. Idiot. Total idiot.
WHY would you want the opponent to move? Chances are, you're opponent is
going to turtle up and let you come to him anyway (because Strider's
defense is just as awsome as his offense). Wait for them to make a
mistake? What incompetent scrubs are YOU playing? Strider FORCES people
to make mistakes. He doesn't wait for them to do it. He *might* get a
throw in, but so what? They have to make a major mistake to do that (if
they're playing properly defensively), and the payoff is 10%. With the
orbs, not only are you safer, but the payoff is either block damage
(which may or may not be much, but it's cumulative and it's free) or
they mess up and you connect with the super. It's a win/win for Strider.
You clearly have no idea what Strider can do at high levels, so stop
wasting time blabbering about stuff you know nothing about.
> > Besides, Strider's cheesiness doesn't come into play when he's losing (well it can, but not as dramatically). It comes into play when in close matches, when it's down to your last character vs. Strider and you both only have about 20%, and Strider has meter. Guess what? Unless you're 100 times better than he is, YOU LOSE.
> Wrong. You dodge the orbs as I pointed out, he runs out of bar, you attack. Or just beam super.
Christ, I'm talking to a shitting brick wall. Strider will NOT let you
dodge! Run out of bar and attack? Again I must ask, what sort of
brain-dead, downs-sysndrome-afflicted Striders are you playing? Strider
will have meter when the orbs run out, make you block one combo,and the
he will DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN. You CANNOT attack. You CANNOT beam super
(assuming your character even has a beam super). You can do NOTHING but
block. And get chipped to death. The only time you get a beam super is
if Strider is an idiot and just pulls the Orbs out of the blue, allowing
you to blast him with the beam. Clearly, a high level Strider would do
nothing of the sort.
Joe Zaza
> think. War Machine is a good character, make no mistake. Possibly top
> tier (upper-middle for the very least). But it's only when paired with
> another WM or with Strider that WM becomes a *massive* threat. When he
> gets level 3, you're going to lose 50% energy or more one way or the
> other (unless the WM player screws up). Pair WM with, say Cap. America,
> CapCom, or Hulk. Then WM's just another strong character.
A couple of things. WM against Zangief has always seemed to be written or
spoken of as a foregone conclusion. However, Zangief has a practical way to
bring WM to the ground. I find when playing Z that the biggest problem
against WM players is getting close and doing damage at the same time. This
is usually because of his clever flying keep-away tactics. The best way to
handle it, IMHO, is by getting him to Knee Dive you. Once you get close
enough to him, the WM player should either do that as an offensive maneuver
or as a force of habit. Once he does the dive followed by the cancelled
attack (J. fierce or J. rhouse), he should cancel into flying once more...
immediatley do a J. jab or J. forward. You should hit and land before he
does and strong throw him (If you hit with J. forward, buffer into the Turbo
Lariat and try a FAB as soon as you land). You can also do it after just the
Knee Dive if you know he doesn't like to chain into the follow-ups. If the
WM player isn't a force of habit creature, then Zangief may successfully get
under him. Before he runs off, Z can SJ. jab him out of Flying and go from
there.
The next thing is the DWM/WM-Strider 50% damage claim. I've handled this
successfully many many times (Practice against Dasrik...)... Instead of
sitting, blocking, and getting 50% scraped of me like a little bitch
(heheh), I sacrifice 15-20% by jumping toward one of the bombardment
projectiles (Mech-Cat or Missile) as soon as it comes within my range. As
soon as it hits, I fierce roll and get behind one of the two recovering
characters. I super combo him with as much prudery as possible. (If the
other char is GWM, this is great damage.) It works great... not too hard to
do. Whether I can pull the super combo safely or not (It's very safe with
CapAm's Final Justice or Zan's FAB), I avoid the rest of the chipping damage
by taking the monkey off of my back.
> SL sucks. End of story. I know you use her, but ultimate she's just Chun
> Li with no good combos (that I know of). She gets mauled by any one with
> a better character who knows what they're doing. Even if the WM/SL duo
> does respectable chip damage, SL doesn't survive long enough for the duo
> to make a difference in a match. The problem with the unholy trio of
> Strider/WM/GWM is that all of them can charge up very quickly while
> easily weathering any offense against them AND doing damage in return
> (GWM can chip from far, trade for ever, take a lot of damage and run, WM
> can run away even better and chip from far, and Strider is... well,
> Strider ;) If all that trio could do was duo, and their regular
> attacking, defending and meter-charging sucked, then they would merely
> be that - a team with a good duo. They would certainly not make up the
> No.1, 2 and 3 teams in the game. But as it turns out, they can do all
> three very well, which means the threat of the duo is constant, and they
> win on chip damage alone.
Did Ultima say this? Dizam. I thought that out of all people, you would be
the last to make an "end of story" claim. I'll attempt to refute you claim
by claim. "SL sucks." If you're going to make a claim like this, at least
say what sucks and what doesn't beforehand (you might attempt to do this
sufficiently afterward, but you got to beforehand for the sake of those who
only read the first lines of a paragraph! =). I can't respond to it on
account of that, however, I can say that it's very unsubstantiated. "...Chun
Li with no good combos..." What's a good combo? Well, while I can only argue
this with that specific information, I can support a provisional answer: one
that takes of +45%. I make this premise on the basis of the fact that the
majority of characters have this sort of combo. ShaLa has the pseudo
infinite like Chun-Li, and I feel that in conjunction with her corner air
throw OTG option, that she can give enough damage. "She gets mauled by any
one with a better character who knows what they're doing." Oh man... You
can't predict beforehand whether or not the person in question (who's using
a 'better' character) knows what he/she's doing more than the one using
ShaLa (In a nutshell, you can't assuredly predict who knows what they're
doing better). Without that info, you can't assuredly predict that the ShaLa
user will get mauled. "SL doesn't survive long enough for the duo to make a
difference in the match." Come on! Twice in a row! =) She has a great
jump-in ability, (High priority head stomp, triple jumps and air dash.) the
ability to dash and catch blocked high recovery special moves, poking
ability, an okay anti-air... Overall, she can hit people as well as Chun-Li
can. The only difference is the damage she can give. That only means that
you have to hit more often. That's not up to her, it's up to the user.
Okay... that's just to defend *her*, not the best teams or anything similar.
Ultima
> > True. But the only character he beats by himself is Zangief (*sniff*), I think. War Machine is a good character, make no mistake. Possibly top tier (upper-middle for the very least). But it's only when paired with another WM or with Strider that WM becomes a *massive* threat. When he gets level 3, you're going to lose 50% energy or more one way or the other (unless the WM player screws up). Pair WM with, say Cap. America, CapCom, or Hulk. Then WM's just another strong character.
> A couple of things. WM against Zangief has always seemed to be written or spoken of as a foregone conclusion.
It might as well be. Zangief can win if he can grab WM, but WM is one of
the few characters who can keep Z away indefintely.
> However, Zangief has a practical way to bring WM to the ground. I find when playing Z that the biggest problem against WM players is getting close and doing damage at the same time. This is usually because of his clever flying keep-away tactics. The best way to handle it, IMHO, is by getting him to Knee Dive you. Once you get close enough to him, the WM player should either do that as an offensive maneuver or as a force of habit. Once he does the dive followed by the cancelled attack (J. fierce or J. rhouse), he should cancel into flying once more...
And if he doesn't? What if he's just doing j. fierce?
> immediatley do a J. jab or J. forward. You should hit and land before he does and strong throw him (If you hit with J. forward, buffer into the Turbo Lariat and try a FAB as soon as you land).
Uh, no. You get a strong throw, you either Triple OPtion him to death
or, failing that, jsut do air combo, knee on the way down, FAB. 80%
damage. It's Z's only hope, really.
> You can also do it after just the Knee Dive if you know he doesn't like to chain into the follow-ups. If the WM player isn't a force of habit creature, then Zangief may successfully get under him. Before he runs off, Z can SJ. jab him out of Flying and go from there.
Too many ifs. WM can win against Z simply by jumping in place and
randomly hitting fierce to keep Z away. By the time Z gets in, he's lost
to much energy and is fodder for the duo.
> The next thing is the DWM/WM-Strider 50% damage claim.
Well, Double WM is 50%. Strider/WM is about 40%. Oh well... -_-
> I've handled this successfully many many times (Practice against Dasrik...)...
Who?
> Instead of sitting, blocking, and getting 50% scraped of me like a little bitch (heheh), I sacrifice 15-20% by jumping toward one of the bombardment projectiles (Mech-Cat or Missile) as soon as it comes within my range. As soon as it hits, I fierce roll and get behind one of the two recovering characters. I super combo him with as much prudery as possible. (If the other char is GWM, this is great damage.) It works great... not too hard to do. Whether I can pull the super combo safely or not (It's very safe with CapAm's Final Justice or Zan's FAB), I avoid the rest of the chipping damage by taking the monkey off of my back.
Hmm. This sounds very suspicious to me. Every time I get hit in the duo,
I get stuck in the middle of the screen and my character dies almost
instantly. I never get a chance to hit the ground because I'm being
constantly juggled. I don't see how this works if the Duo characters
stagger their supers properly. I especially don't see this working
against Strider/WM, as the Legion will hit you if you roll anyway.
> > SL sucks. End of story. I know you use her, but ultimate she's just Chun Li with no good combos (that I know of). She gets mauled by any one with a better character who knows what they're doing. Even if the WM/SL duo does respectable chip damage, SL doesn't survive long enough for the duo to make a difference in a match. The problem with the unholy trio of
> > Strider/WM/GWM is that all of them can charge up very quickly while
> > easily weathering any offense against them AND doing damage in return (GWM can chip from far, trade for ever, take a lot of damage and run, WM can run away even better and chip from far, and Strider is... well, Strider ;) If all that trio could do was duo, and their regular
> > attacking, defending and meter-charging sucked, then they would merely be that - a team with a good duo. They would certainly not make up the No.1, 2 and 3 teams in the game. But as it turns out, they can do all three very well, which means the threat of the duo is constant, and they win on chip damage alone.
> Did Ultima say this? Dizam.
I did. Not Dizam.
> I thought that out of all people, you would be the last to make an "end of story" claim. I'll attempt to refute you claim by claim. "SL sucks." [clip] "...Chun Li with no good combos..." What's a good combo? Well, while I can only argue this with that specific information, I can support a provisional answer: one that takes of +45%.
Not just damage, though that is the main factor. It also has to do how
easy the combo is, how easy it is to set-up and how often it can be
done. Also the consequences of the combo, if any.
> I make this premise on the basis of the fact that the majority of characters have this sort of combo.
And SL is one of the few who doesn't.
> ShaLa has the pseudo infinite like Chun-Li,
Worthless. Doesn't do enough damage and too difficult to do repeatedly.
> and I feel that in conjunction with her corner air throw OTG option, that she can give enough damage.
Well, I admit I don't know too much about this "corner ait throw OTG
option", but I doubt it helps her much.
"She gets mauled by any one with a better character who knows what
they're doing." Oh man... You can't predict beforehand whether or not
the person in question (who's using a 'better' character) knows what
he/she's doing more than the one using ShaLa (In a nutshell, you can't
assuredly predict who knows what they're doing better).
You can say this about any character. It doesn't mean that SL doesn't
suck.
> Without that info, you can't assuredly predict that the ShaLa
> user will get mauled.
If the players are equally skilled at the game and one player as SL and
the other has [insert better charcter here], the player with the better
character is going to win. SL has a few tricks, but nothing substantial
to beat characters who are simply better than her (I forget exactly
where SL is in the general rankings, but I have her at around lower
middle tier).
> "SL doesn't survive long enough for the duo to make a difference in the match." Come on! Twice in a row! =) She has a great jump-in ability, (High priority head stomp, triple jumps and air dash.) the ability to dash and catch blocked high recovery special moves, poking
> ability, an okay anti-air... Overall, she can hit people as well as Chun-Li can. Overall, she can hit people as well as Chun-Li
can. The only difference is the damage she can give.
But she can't do anywhere neas as much damage as Chun Li can. Thus, she
has to work much harder to win. SL is all running and a few cute tricks,
little more. Chun Li's threat is her ability to hit you AND punish you
severely with her combos. A 50% damage combo from Chun Li can turn
around a game; much less so a 25% combo from SL.
> that only means that you have to hit more often. That's not up to her, it's up to the user.
I think it's more up to her opponent for letting SL get away with shit
more often. SL is also much easier to attack out-right than Chunners
because her defense is terrible (those missiles are only a mild
annoyance, in my experience).
> Okay... that's just to defend *her*, not the best teams or anything similar.
Sorry, I stand by my assertion that SL sucks. All I see is a weak Chun
Li, which is still okay (she's clearly not the worst character). BUt
with CHun Li around, why bother playing SL? She's useless. SL is like
X-Vega in A3. Sure, he's not a bad character, but V-Vega is so much
better (hell, even A-Vega is a lot better). There's just no reason for
SL to be around (or any of the secret characters aside from GWM and
Hyper Venom).
Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr.
> SL sucks. End of story. I know you use her, but ultimate she's just Chun
> Li with no good combos (that I know of). She gets mauled by any one with
> a better character who knows what they're doing. Even if the WM/SL duo
> does respectable chip damage, SL doesn't survive long enough for the duo
> to make a difference in a match.
Shadow Lady has all the priority and initial attack ability of Chun-Li. Plus she can play a distance game. Before you say "If you're talking about
the Rainbow Missiles, they suck damage-wise, etc.", their major use is deterrance. With the Missiles, her opponent loses the ability to super jump,
fly, air dash, hop back and charge meter, etc. This, IMO, brightens ShaLa's odds against certain characters (Chun-Li, Zan, a few others)...
By the way, I've actually played against good people using this, so it does work rather well. :-)
Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr.
> And if he doesn't? What if he's just doing j. fierce?
Zan's J.Forward+Fierce.
> Who?
Me.
> Hmm. This sounds very suspicious to me. Every time I get hit in the duo,
> I get stuck in the middle of the screen and my character dies almost
> instantly. I never get a chance to hit the ground because I'm being
> constantly juggled.
I have seen J.Z. do this before. It's very tricky, and the timing is insane, but all it requires I think is practice. And maybe a little luck... but it's worked more often than it hasn't. And I do stagger.
> I think it's more up to her opponent for letting SL get away with shit
> more often. SL is also much easier to attack out-right than Chunners
> because her defense is terrible (those missiles are only a mild
> annoyance, in my experience).
They can be a major annoyance if Shadow Lady does them just a bit more boldly. And defense-wise, what does Chun-Li have that Shadow Lady doesn't?
> Sorry, I stand by my assertion that SL sucks. All I see is a weak Chun
> Li, which is still okay (she's clearly not the worst character). BUt
> with CHun Li around, why bother playing SL? She's useless.
If I might venture to say so, Shadow Lady has a real shot against GWM because of the Infinity Leg (which Chun-Li has) and the missiles (which Chun-Li doesn't). ShaLa keeps her distance and uses missiles and if they get close she reverses Infinity Leg. Granted, Shadow Lady has trouble in a lot of battles compared to Chun-Li, but she *is* a fun character to use, because of the missiles.
JB Gainz
It seems every post of your is an insult to someone. Why do you even come to
this board if the only thing you do is flame people? If you don't like what
Jiston says, just fucking ignore him like everyone else. It really is not that
hard and you won't look like a real asshole everytime.
>Jinston wrote:
>>
>> "Ultima" <jas...@rit.edu> wrote in message
>> news:38867F61...@rit.edu...
>> > Jinston wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> > > lemming.
>
>> > Shitsnake.
>
>> wtf? This has no meaning. I bet you don't even understand why I called
>you a lemming.
>
>I know. You figure I'm a lemming for flaming you (i.e. jumping on a
>bandwagon). You're wrong. I flamed you because you're an idiot. I'm the
>LAST person to jump on a flaming bandwagon. You'vde spouted trash on
>this newsgroup for way more than a year now before you've heard anything
>from me.
Joe Zaza
> the few characters who can keep Z away indefintely.
How? Not to challenge your knowledge or anything... I'd like to know how you
see how.
> And if he doesn't? What if he's just doing j. fierce?
If he's jumping in, Z can Strong Throw... If he jumps straight up and uses
all three, that's a different matter.
> Uh, no. You get a strong throw, you either Triple OPtion him to death
> or, failing that, jsut do air combo, knee on the way down, FAB. 80%
> damage. It's Z's only hope, really.
That's what I'm saying. If he hits with the J. jab, you have a Strong Throw
into 3XO, if you do the J. forward XX Turbo Lariat, you *could* try a FAB...
That's all I suggested. Don't deny those as possibilities.
> Too many ifs. WM can win against Z simply by jumping in place and
> randomly hitting fierce to keep Z away. By the time Z gets in, he's lost
> to much energy and is fodder for the duo.
How does he lose so much energy? I mean, if he gets hit, he doesn't get in.
It's not like we're talking IBZ, here. How he loses so much energy is
entirely dependent on how well Z can handle that situation. I suggest
letting WM jump around like a chimp for a while and wait till he comes to
you. There are also offensive ways Z can handle this. If you approach
carefully (so as to block every hit), you will get in eventually and be able
to either launch or air J. jab him. In both cases, 3XO... However doing that
solidly depends on the fact that the WM player would do consistnetly
impliment that strategy. If he decides to SJ away once Z gets dangerously
close, Z still hasn't lost any damage and has to try approaching WM
carefully again.
> Well, Double WM is 50%. Strider/WM is about 40%. Oh well... -_-
>
> > I've handled this successfully many many times (Practice against
Dasrik...)...
>
> Who?
Ricardo A. Lafaurie, AKA Dasrik, AKA my brother. He played at the MvC SHGL
tournament and held his own (the match were he was eliminated was so f-in
close) with a GWM/ShaLa team. He's a two on one freak.
> Hmm. This sounds very suspicious to me. Every time I get hit in the duo,
> I get stuck in the middle of the screen and my character dies almost
> instantly. I never get a chance to hit the ground because I'm being
> constantly juggled. I don't see how this works if the Duo characters
> stagger their supers properly. I especially don't see this working
> against Strider/WM, as the Legion will hit you if you roll anyway.
I always make it a point to look out for duos, especially when jumping in
(sometimes I jump in see if the opponent duos and block the incoming
partner) and when I'm using characters that people think are not suited to
handle them well (Zangief, Hulk...). When a duo comes in, I always get out
from between the chars ASAP or pushblock them... Then I try the technique.
You won't consistently get juggled if you jump as soon as the missile or cat
is about to hit you... when it does, immediately do the fierce roll.
(However, you must before you block... once you block, you're toast.) If you
jump as soon as the first couple of animals come towards you (in Legion),
you're grounded and if and when you fierce roll, the wave of animals has
already passed and Strider is still recovering.
> Not just damage, though that is the main factor. It also has to do how
> easy the combo is, how easy it is to set-up and how often it can be
> done. Also the consequences of the combo, if any.
Easy is too much of a relative term. It isn't easy for anyone who's never
done it before, but for someone who has mastered the technique, it's easy as
pie. Setting up combos with ShaLa is just as easy as it is with Chun...
> And SL is one of the few who doesn't.
Yeah, I give you that.
> Worthless. Doesn't do enough damage and too difficult to do repeatedly.
It's the easiest combo to set up that does the best assured damage. I
already addressed difficulty. I'd say a ShaLa player better master that
combo.
> Well, I admit I don't know too much about this "corner ait throw OTG
> option", but I doubt it helps her much.
You do a corner AC ending with an air throw and OTG into another throw AC...
however, this *is* worthless against people who can roll. I'd say stick with
the pseudo.
> You can say this about any character. It doesn't mean that SL doesn't
> suck.
ShaLa doesn't suck... The people that use her unsuccessfully may not be
good, but she doesn't suck. She has a quick enough dash to poke like I said,
it's also quick enough to punish supers and specials with the slightest
exploitable recovery time, she has good jump in ability, and gives okay
damage. Rick can argue more for her.
> If the players are equally skilled at the game and one player as SL and
> the other has [insert better charcter here], the player with the better
> character is going to win. SL has a few tricks, but nothing substantial
> to beat characters who are simply better than her (I forget exactly
> where SL is in the general rankings, but I have her at around lower
> middle tier).
That's a little too hypothetical for me to envision. I'd say she belongs in
the same region, but she doesn't suck.
> But she can't do anywhere neas as much damage as Chun Li can. Thus, she
> has to work much harder to win. SL is all running and a few cute tricks,
> little more. Chun Li's threat is her ability to hit you AND punish you
> severely with her combos. A 50% damage combo from Chun Li can turn
> around a game; much less so a 25% combo from SL.
ShaLa can hit you just as well as Chun-Li can... She's not slower or faster.
The only differences between the two beside pallettes are the specials and
supers. Turning around the game with ShaLa would not be necessary if the
person using her could successfully damage the opponent and prevent himself
from being damaged substantially at the same time (which is possible).
> I think it's more up to her opponent for letting SL get away with shit
> more often. SL is also much easier to attack out-right than Chunners
> because her defense is terrible (those missiles are only a mild
> annoyance, in my experience).
It's really up to both. The opponent's offensive and/or defensive faults and
the player's ability to 1) take advantage of those faults 2) avoid making
similar faults. Her defense is just as good as Chun-Li's.
> Sorry, I stand by my assertion that SL sucks. All I see is a weak Chun
> Li, which is still okay (she's clearly not the worst character). BUt
> with CHun Li around, why bother playing SL? She's useless. SL is like
> X-Vega in A3. Sure, he's not a bad character, but V-Vega is so much
> better (hell, even A-Vega is a lot better). There's just no reason for
> SL to be around (or any of the secret characters aside from GWM and
> Hyper Venom).
ShaLa is probably around to challenge those players who are extremely
skilled... Kind of like Goku's weighted clothing... If you can win
consistently (against good competition)using her, you could probably win
well with most other characters. =)
Peace.
Ultima
> > It might as well be. Zangief can win if he can grab WM, but WM is one of the few characters who can keep Z away indefintely.
>
> How? Not to challenge your knowledge or anything... I'd like to know how you see how.
Z hasn't really got anything that will prevent WM from flying away and
ticking him with block damage. In addition, WM can jump in place and
randomly hit fierce to stuff all of Z's attacks. Z has to throw himself
at WM via super-jumping and pray that he snags a lucky throw or
launcher. It *can* be done, but it's definitely not in his favour. It
takes a mismatch in skill for Z to beat WM.
> > And if he doesn't? What if he's just doing j. fierce?
> If he's jumping in, Z can Strong Throw... If he jumps straight up and uses all three, that's a different matter.
That's what I meant. Jumping straight up, randomly hitting fierce to
stop Z from advancing. Z really doesn't have any means of getting in
except via super-jump, which is something Z (or at least my Z) does not
like to do.
> > Uh, no. You get a strong throw, you either Triple OPtion him to death or, failing that, jsut do air combo, knee on the way down, FAB. 80% damage. It's Z's only hope, really.
> That's what I'm saying. If he hits with the J. jab, you have a Strong Throw into 3XO, if you do the J. forward XX Turbo Lariat, you *could* try a FAB... That's all I suggested. Don't deny those as possibilities.
Do you know about the Triple OPtion? You're not mentioning the most
important part: The knee-drop on the way down (after the air combo).
After that, you either walk up and grab, low strong re-launch (if you
think they're going to stick out something), or FAB. You won't be able
to FAB them after the air-combo straight off since they fall to the
ground.
> > Too many ifs. WM can win against Z simply by jumping in place and
> > randomly hitting fierce to keep Z away. By the time Z gets in, he's lost to much energy and is fodder for the duo.
> How does he lose so much energy? I mean, if he gets hit, he doesn't get in.
Eh..? If he gets hit (which Z invariably will), he loses energy. I don't
under stand this question.
> It's not like we're talking IBZ, here.
What?
> How he loses so much energy is entirely dependent on how well Z can handle that situation. I suggest letting WM jump around like a chimp for a while and wait till he comes to you.
Uhm, if WM jumps in place or is flying all over the place thorwing smart
bombs, he will NEVER have to come to you. Why should he? He's building
up meter and/or doing unretaliable block damage. That means Z has to go
to him. Why would Wm jeopordize his position by attcually going after Z?
> There are also offensive ways Z can handle this. If you approach
> carefully (so as to block every hit), you will get in eventually and be able to either launch or air J. jab him. In both cases, 3XO...
Very unlikely. If Z ever gets that close, WM can just dash-back (or if
he's in the corner, s.j. and fly away) and Duo straight off. At best, Z
loses 40 - 50% block damage. And if GWM gets tagged in, he does the same
thing as WM, except now Z has almost NO chance of winning (any jump-in
or ground move by Z will get beaten buy GWM's s.fierce, whch knocks Z
all the way to the edge of the screen, forcing him to tryand find a way
back in). WM *has* to make a mistake for Z to get in. And I see any
match-up where your opponent absolutely *must* make a mistake (as
opposed to you forcing a mistake) for you to win requires a mismatch in
skill, and is theoretically unwinnable if both players know what they're
doing.
> However doing that solidly depends on the fact that the WM player would do consistnetly impliment that strategy. If he decides to SJ away once Z gets dangerously close, Z still hasn't lost any damage and has to try approaching WM carefully again.
See above. Even if Z takes no damage, he'll suffer the wrath of the
inevitable duo and die one way or the other.
[snip]
> > Hmm. This sounds very suspicious to me. Every time I get hit in the duo,I get stuck in the middle of the screen and my character dies almost
> > instantly. I never get a chance to hit the ground because I'm being
> > constantly juggled. I don't see how this works if the Duo characters
> > stagger their supers properly. I especially don't see this working
> > against Strider/WM, as the Legion will hit you if you roll anyway.
> I always make it a point to look out for duos, especially when jumping in (sometimes I jump in see if the opponent duos and block the incoming
> partner) and when I'm using characters that people think are not suited to handle them well (Zangief, Hulk...). When a duo comes in, I always get out from between the chars ASAP or pushblock them... Then I try the technique. You won't consistently get juggled if you jump as soon as the missile or cat is about to hit you... when it does, immediately do the fierce roll. (However, you must before you block... once you block, you're toast.) If you jump as soon as the first couple of animals come towards you (in Legion), you're grounded and if and when you fierce roll, the wave of animals has already passed and Strider is still recovering.
Well, I'll try it the next time I get caught in a duo. But I'm still
suspicious.
[huge snip]
sol t kim
Chocobo <cho...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Lavander San wrote:
>
>> << I agree. Strider does NOT need to be toned down >>
>>
>> Yes he does. Simple proof in this lies in the fact that no other fighting
>> game in history... has had one single char.. that is MAJORLY used by 99.9%
>> of the gaming population.
>>
>> not so omnipotent that every body and their mother used that char. Now with
>> strider we have a different story... about 99.9% of the people that play MVC
>> use Strider. If anybody can tell me a char that was more used in any
>> fighting game than strider.. ill give you a dreamcast. (Uhh.. not really
>> ^_^)
a lot of people say ryu, i'll say Ibuki in SF3:NG. i'll give you my
address, you can ship the dreamcast thru FedEx. =P
>> << He's not cheesy at all. Orbs are overrated. Just super jump twice and
>> they're over. >>
>>
>> Jinston.. you are welcome to come down to where I play to see how cheesy
>> those @#$#$%#^%$ Orbs can be. I've darn nearly lost every brain cell in my
>> head trying to counter what can barely be considered a strategy... a
>> strategy called infinite orbs. Come on down to Queens, Familiar Video on
>> Liberty Ave, some of the East Coast top players play there.. and guess what
>> they are good. Real good.. and you know what? Their cheesiness with Strider
>> Orbs are second only to Eddie Lee. In fact.. go to Chinatown and play Eddie'
>> s strider if you want to see how cheesy orbs can be.
Has Jinston been ever right?
--
sol t kim
Lavander San <XCAL...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>Ok lets talk realistic stats here.
>
>When SF2WW just came out I remember alot of people using Ken and Ryu, alot
>meaning.... about 60%. And that number was split almost evenly between the
>two.
where the did you come from? the people from my area, when opportunity
presented itself(since you couldn't have guile vs guile in ww) 80% or more
people played guile.
in the place where people take competition seriously, it is the right
tendency for the strong characters to get picked. scrubs always go for
ken(the ones who think themselves as cool) or ryu (the ones who think
themselves as good). =P
>He is the most overused character in any fighting game ever made. And its
>NOT because he is cool.
>
--
Ricardo A Lafaurie Jr.
> Well, I'll try it the next time I get caught in a duo. But I'm still
> suspicious.
All I have to say about this thread is... it does work. He's done it to me many times, and my duos are pretty good. It requires a sacrifice, though, of about 10-20% energy, and some pretty good timing.