What level of skill is best for each game?
Onaje Everett
Think with me.
A lot of talk has been thrown around as to why people like different games
and why certain games are more skillful than others. However, I'd like to
pose a different kind of question: At what skill level are the fighting
games that we play played at their optimum "fun" level?
Let's start with the series that's been talked about the most, lately: SF3.
Street Fighter 3: The Next Generation was probably the most anticipated game
in history. A lot of new features were added and it looked like this game
was going to be a game where skill was what mattered. Then....we started
playing. The thing that I first remember doing was instilling a "No Ryu or
Ken" rule. Why? Well....they were too easy to win with and matches between
the two (and only those two) were fairly boring. We (The "Aztec Amusement
Center @ San Diego State University crew") wanted to see just what "The Next
Generation" could do. We read the newsgroup, figured out some strategies, and
started playing. Next thing I know, "Heeeeeeeere's OPTION SELECT!!" The
power of parries became so evident that that's all people started doing
(except me, 'cause I can't sit there like that). Anyway, it looked to me
that without parries, SF3 was fun. I was kicking butt dizzying people with
my newly found Tricky Krazy Ken Hurricane Kick trap and doing jump-ins,
crossups, and pokes followed by the overpowered Shinryuken (I only really
needed one per round, but two really was overdoing it). I got to see stuff
like Yun/Yang's MSH combos (that term belongs to Milo). :) Then I saw
Ibuki's combo madness...and Oro's Tengu Stone madness...and Sean's
dizzy-combo-links-off-of-roundhouse-kicks-Hyper Tornado madness. James Chen
called Alex "too powerful", but I think that's because he was so good with
him. :) Necro was "turtle of the year". :) Oh yeah...and Elena sucked. :P
Anyway, I'll say SF3 was best played around intermediate skill level. Any
comments?
Onaje Everett
o_ev...@hotmail.com
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."
-Philippians 4:13
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
WhoaMoses
>comments?
Yes. My comment: I wouldn't know. They made Ibuki so damned overpowered in that
game.....someone here mastered her and nobody wanted to play it anymore. "I
parry! I do an infinite combo! You lose!" or "I parry! I do a combo, link a
super into it, take away 50% and dizzy you! And now I do it again! HAHAHA!"
Needless to say, it took me about 3 months to realize that I could parry half
the stuff Ibuki did, but still, parries leading into overpowered combos ruined
the game. So overall the skill level would probably be ranked intermediate,
excluding Ibuki, who shouldn't even be considered as a factor.
PhtSaqs
>comments?
This post most likely won't answer your question in the subject of the post,
but I just wanted a reason to post something anyways. I'm bored at work, and
feel like ranting, so thanks Onaje :).
As far as skill goes in the 3 series, despite the amount of BS in the game, and
the bashing it's recieved, I still think 2I is one of the most skillful games
out there. Does that make it a good game? No at all, as it's flaws brightly
outshine any positives you can pull from it's gameplay. Oh well....
Totally changing the subject, but still on the topic of 2I (somewhat) and US
gaming in general, I think peeps really tend to rush judgement when it comes to
tier rankings and such. When 2I was being played, everyone and their mother
whined about how Yang was too strong and was #1 in the game because of his low
short chain. People took it, and ran with it as if it were gospel. I thought
then, and I know now that Yang isn't even top tier in that game. He's so one
dimensional to the point where that same strength is also his biggest downfall.
Rushing to rank characters is a big problem IMO. It seems the minute somebody
from Cali comes on the NG or IRC and says "oh, and btw, <insert character here>
is top tier", people take it as gospel, and immediately start playing that
character, and all of a sudden, we have one billion clones of the same
character running around the tournament scene which does nothing but cause the
skill level as a whole to become stagnant.
We just saw this very same thing happen with A3. Everyone and their mom is
spouting on and on about how Rolento and Dhalsim are unbeatable and are easily
#1 and 2 respectively in the game. And in comes "some guy from Japan" who
spanks everyone using a variety of characters, (Akuma and Guy to name a few) to
which we (the US players) respond with, "oh wow, Akuma and Guy are top tier for
sure", which creates deja vu all over again. Everyone wants to use Akuma and
Guy now, copying everything they've seen from their beloved "Nationals tape",
wash, rinse, repeat. It's really sickening IMO. This can be argued to death,
but I still am not convinced that V-Akuma is tops in A3. There are several
charcters in this game that are extremely underrated and ignored simply because
most people have given up and taken what has been put out already as the final
word. Watching the taped broadcast of the Japan Super Battle Tournament, and
seeing the amount of people, the size of the locations, the amount of
publicity, as well as the variety of characters played in the tournament really
made me see just how bad the SF scene really is here. Bison seems really
popular of there (Daigo was just a few pixels away from being eliminated by a
Bison player). As well as Sodom, Sakura, Guy, V-Dhalsim, and of course V-Akuma
just to name a few. And yet some people are quitting this game already. *sigh*.
No wonder the SF scene sucks so bad here as compared to in Japan. (shrug).
Oh well, thanks for reading :).
----------------------------------
Beware the PhatSaqs
Ric
-----------------------------------
Ultima
[snip]
> Anyway, I'll say SF3 was best played around intermediate skill level. Any comments?
I thought that was universally agreed upon? Take aways parries, and the
game is pretty good (though I find it still gets dull after a while...
something about the atmosphere).
Anyway, here's my take what games are most fun at what skill levels for
the ones I know:
WW - Beginner: Yeah it was the first, and we all had a blast figurin
stuff out. But even at the intermediate level, it was all Guile and
Dhalsim.
CE - All skill levels: Beginners can have fun with over-powered Ken and
Bison. Unfortunately, experts also get to dominate with over-powered
Bison. Still pretty fun for all though.
HF - All skill levels: No contest. While I wouldn't recommend beginners
to start learning this game *now*, back then it was really the SF that
raised me above beginner class, and I had fun doing it. Of course,
experts can still go back to this day.
SSF2 - Intermediate/Expert: I personally detest this game, but I suppose
it's parallel to CE in terms of fun factor. I wouldn't recommend it for
beginners though, even back then.
ST - Expert: This is an expert's game, no question about it.
SFA - Beginner: Easy chains, new graphics and characters.
[NOte that a beginner game followed the expert game :)]
SFA2: Lower-level Intermediate: Any higher and CCs and ACs dominate too
much. At this level you still see supers being used more often.
SFA3: Beginner to Upper-level intermediate: VCs are harder to pull off
than CCs and you don't pull them off quite as often, and ACs are
virtually useless, so you really only see it at the upper threshold of
players. Beginners can also have fun with this one due to the easy
juggling system.
SF3: Intermediate: Any higher and it's a parry fest.
SF3 2I: Same as SF3.
XSF: All skill levels: Beginners have it easy because they can mash and
pick SCAR WORK characters. Experts can have fun learning all the
infinites and long-ass combos. INtermediate players lie somewhere
in-between, though I think that's probably the least fun area to be in
for this game (Note: I've never really played XSF - this is based on
second hand info)
MSF: Beginner/intermediate: Aside from the usual reasons not to like
this game and this series, the only reason why the expert level for this
game is no good is because the game is just too boring. There's nothing
for the expert player to enjoy, unless you really want to try those
miscellaneous weird Hulk, Chun Li and Omega Red combos Mike Z posted a
while back :p
MvC: Beginner/intermediate: Any higher than the intermediate level
(probably the lower-level intermediate level) and the massive amount of
garbage that tbe game is filled with comes into play.
Bonus: SS skill levels (no reasons as to why given)
SS1: All levels
SS2: All levels
SS3: Beginner
SS4: Beginner/Intermediate.
This is all IMO of course.
--
Ultima - The Right Arm of Scrub Voltron
http://members.xoom.com/Ultima1 - The Street Fighter RPG Manifesto!
http://members.xoom.com/ShinUltima - U's Ultimate Rambling Page
If an arcade doesn't have a version of SF or SS in it, then it's not an
arcade
sol t kim
Onaje Everett (FreshOJ) <o_ev...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>that without parries, SF3 was fun. I was kicking butt dizzying people with
>my newly found Tricky Krazy Ken Hurricane Kick trap
i've heard you talk about this many times....what exactly is this Krazy
Ken stuff?
>James Chen called Alex "too powerful", but I think that's because he was
>so good with him. :)
i think he's pretty overpowering in "beggining/intermediate" level...even
so, beginner ibuki can kick intermediate alex's butt....
--
James Margaris
[clip]
This echoes some sentiments of mine I expressed earlier. My favorite example
is Guy in A3. He lost his ability to interrupt off a low forward and a few
people (John Choi the most notable) made sort of offhand comments to the tune
of "he sucks now," and that comment made from like the first day of play
becomes the gospel truth.
Remember when A3 first came out, the rankings changed daily based on who Alex
Valle happened to play that afternoon? V. Vega was the man. Then X Ryu. Then
Sodom. Then Rolento. etc. It seems that either people shun the non "power"
characters right from the start, without giving them any sort of chance, or
they try them and maybe do alright with them but don't have the guts to make
any claims about the character.
Let's face it: The quality of the argument pales in comparison to the stature
of the person making it. If Valle says some guy is good, we would probably all
believe it, and as "evidence" see that Valle can win with him. Of course, this
might just be because Valle is good, not because the character is all that
special.
We all do this to some degree. When we play a worse character instead of
exploring and redoubling our efforts a lot of us shrug and move on, or else
play the character "for fun" without really trying to become fully effective
with them.
It is a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy. The "power" characters get played
more and people come up with good strategies with them, whereas the weak
characters don't get played much, and when they are played and the person
loses they blame the character instead of their play style. Imagine if all the
Chun players in A2 started playing Bison instead. I bet we'd see a lot more
interesting Bison stuff.
Take the insane Guy A3 combos. If the word had been that Guy was top tier,
they would have been discovered pretty quickly. But instead Guy playing became
a diversion, a sort of break between "real fights" for most people, who gave
up on him because they couldn't quickly find a simple effective strategy.
Good post.
James M
Kuro
>This post most likely won't answer your question in the subject of the post,
>but I just wanted a reason to post something anyways. I'm bored at work, and
>feel like ranting, so thanks Onaje :).
>
>As far as skill goes in the 3 series, despite the amount of BS in the game, and
>the bashing it's recieved, I still think 2I is one of the most skillful games
>out there. Does that make it a good game? No at all, as it's flaws brightly
>outshine any positives you can pull from it's gameplay. Oh well....
>
>Totally changing the subject, but still on the topic of 2I (somewhat) and US
>gaming in general, I think peeps really tend to rush judgement when it comes to
>tier rankings and such. When 2I was being played, everyone and their mother
>whined about how Yang was too strong and was #1 in the game because of his low
>short chain. People took it, and ran with it as if it were gospel. I thought
>then, and I know now that Yang isn't even top tier in that game. He's so one
>dimensional to the point where that same strength is also his biggest downfall.
Yang was considered top tier in SF3. In 2I, he wasn't weakened, but
actually became stronger, with the addition of more moves, combos,
etc. Initially, everyone had to re-adjust to the parry tweaks, ES
moves, etc, and as a result people were able to abuse Yang's BS faster
than with the other characters probably because of his low learning
curve. As the game got older, people re-adjusted and went on to
master parrying and option select and suddenly many of the characters
become almost identical.
Yang is one dimensional, yes... but so is the entire game.
>Rushing to rank characters is a big problem IMO. It seems the minute somebody
>from Cali comes on the NG or IRC and says "oh, and btw, <insert character here>
>is top tier", people take it as gospel, and immediately start playing that
>character, and all of a sudden, we have one billion clones of the same
>character running around the tournament scene which does nothing but cause the
>skill level as a whole to become stagnant.
Ah. Cali-bashing again. Is it because non-Cali players don't get
enough attention so they have to do this?
Certain (ahem) EC players were calling Honda OVERPOWERED when a3 was
released. Some people, regardless of where they live, like to rush
to judgements, not just people who live in the western portion of our
country.
>We just saw this very same thing happen with A3. Everyone and their mom is
>spouting on and on about how Rolento and Dhalsim are unbeatable and are easily
>#1 and 2 respectively in the game. And in comes "some guy from Japan" who
>spanks everyone using a variety of characters, (Akuma and Guy to name a few) to
>which we (the US players) respond with, "oh wow, Akuma and Guy are top tier for
>sure", which creates deja vu all over again. Everyone wants to use Akuma and
Excuse me, but who the hell ever said Guy was top tier in A3? I've
never heard this from anyone or anywhere.
As for Akuma, the rankings I saw out there had him at least in the top
5. That's pretty damn close to top tier, if not top tier in itself.
>Guy now, copying everything they've seen from their beloved "Nationals tape",
>wash, rinse, repeat. It's really sickening IMO. This can be argued to death,
>but I still am not convinced that V-Akuma is tops in A3. There are several
>charcters in this game that are extremely underrated and ignored simply because
>most people have given up and taken what has been put out already as the final
>word. Watching the taped broadcast of the Japan Super Battle Tournament, and
>seeing the amount of people, the size of the locations, the amount of
>publicity, as well as the variety of characters played in the tournament really
>made me see just how bad the SF scene really is here. Bison seems really
>popular of there (Daigo was just a few pixels away from being eliminated by a
>Bison player). As well as Sodom, Sakura, Guy, V-Dhalsim, and of course V-Akuma
>just to name a few. And yet some people are quitting this game already. *sigh*.
>No wonder the SF scene sucks so bad here as compared to in Japan. (shrug).
Our generation is comprised of people with incredibly short attention
spans. These days, most fighting games seem to age a decade a month
(A3 is already collecting social security!)... and our die-hard
players aren't getting any younger either. Most of us don't have the
time to devote to these games like we used to.
BTW, A3 is my favorite version now. ST still comes in a close second
though. Sorry, old-schoolers. =)
--
Kuro
kur...@netscape.net
James Margaris
>
>BTW, A3 is my favorite version now. ST still comes in a close second
>though. Sorry, old-schoolers. =)
>
James M
Onaje Everett
sol...@midway.uchicago.edu (sol t kim) wrote:
> In article <7as32k$b9c$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> Onaje Everett (FreshOJ) <o_ev...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >that without parries, SF3 was fun. I was kicking butt dizzying people with
> >my newly found Tricky Krazy Ken Hurricane Kick trap
>
> i've heard you talk about this many times....what exactly is this Krazy
> Ken stuff?
It's really extremely simple to set up (which explains how I found it). Do a
combo that ends with the Hurricane Kick (any version will work, but
roundhouse is best for obvious reasons). It's best to do this combo at the
beginning of the round (because he's Krazy Ken!) and it's best if this combo
is something like jump roundhouse, (crouch forward or close strong-fierce or
close/crouch fierce), roundhouse HK. If the HK hits, you and your opponent
will recover at nearly the exact same time...but you'll still be fairly close
to each other (Ken can crouch forward or crouch roundhouse and make contact
with his opponent). From here, you have TONS of options:
1. Crouch forward into roundhouse HK. If they're not blocking low, do this
and hit them again. If you hit with the above 3 part combo, they'll be dizzy
in the middle of the HK and you'll get extra hits before they go into dizzy
animation.
2. Crouch fierce into roundhouse HK. If they try to poke you, this will
out-prioritize or out-quick their counter attack. If you hit with the initial
combo...yup....they're dizzy.
3. SHORYUKEN! Of course, this is good as long as they aren't blocking. :)
This will still allow you to set up a guessing game, but this won't be enough
for a dizzy. This works especially well in the corner.
4. F+forward kick. Slow...yeah...but when you over use the first three
options, they won't expect it.
5. Universal overhead. Probably better than option 4...especially if you have
them cornered after the initial HK.
6. THROW!!! Since this is SF3 Ken we're talking about, throw with forward
ALWAYS. Why? If you hit the initial combo and you mash out 6 knees, you'll
dizzy them.
7. Crouch forward into SHINRYUKEN!!! A smart Ken always picks Shinryuken. :)
A Krazy Ken pokes with crouch forward and interrupts that into the
Shinryuken. :) A Tricky Krazy Ken uses this to finish off his opponent in
typical Flashy Tricky Krazy Ken style! :) YEAH!!! :)
8. Crouch fierce into SHINRYUKEN!! Same as option #2. Of course, this is
riskier. After all, you fly up what....50 feet? :)
9. Stand forward and hold the button. His "tricky kick". :) Who knows...they
might fall for it! :)
10. Super jump and crossup with forward. This one works REALLY well in the
corner. Why? Combine this with option #8 and you get....would you
believe...a dizzy! Talk about overkill...especially since you can Shinryuken
them again. I THINK you can regular jump and crossup in the corner as well,
but Ken might have to take a step forward.
And so on...
The key is to get them dizzy. Why? So you can Shinryuken them, silly!!! :)
Ken was soooo good in SF3, you could easily K.O. someone in 7 seconds. How?
Jumping roundhouse, close fierce XX roundhouse Hurricane Kick...crouch forward
XX roundhouse Hurricane Kick....(dizzy)...jump fierce, close fierce XX (pause)
SHINRYUKEN!!! KNOCKOUT!!!!
Be warned....this doesn't work well on James Chen! He shut me down
completely at the SHGL tourney in August of '97 with his Alex. Then again, I
think it was because I drew him for my second match and I
was....ummm....REALLY NERVOUS!!!! To this day, I haven't gotten more than one
round off of that man in ANY game. In short, it works best on
semi-intermediate to intermediate players. Experts aren't really
fooled....especially since I blab my secrets like a fool. :)
> >James Chen called Alex "too powerful", but I think that's because he was
> >so good with him. :)
>
> i think he's pretty overpowering in "beggining/intermediate" level...even
> so, beginner ibuki can kick intermediate alex's butt....
You know...I think you're right. I played Alex and figured out some combos
and immediately started mauling people that didn't know how to block. :)
Even the ones that could block were having a time with my Alex. My Alex is
still average, at best. It was ALL about the Stun Gun Head Butt in SF3....it
really still is in 2I...but I want the old damage back. (evil grin) ;)
Yeah! SGHB, fierce Flash Chop, strong Flash Chop, Sleeper Hold! YEAH YEAH!!
What was that.....75% combo in SF3? Wow.
SefirosuLB
>
>i've heard you talk about this many times....what exactly is this Krazy
>Ken stuff?
I think I know what it is. This is it:
Crouching Medium Kick, two-in-one into Hurricane Kick (use Hard Kick)
Just keep doing that over and over. I may be wrong, but this is what I know
of.
______________________
Dan GC
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
http://i.am/guardiancloud
UNDER MAJOR CONSTRUCTION!
"You're funny, but keep it up and you'll
just piss me off." - Xenogears ~ Fei
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Lion
>
> BTW, A3 is my favorite version now. ST still comes in a close second
> though. Sorry, old-schoolers. =)
>
Fuck that, Bob felt for the dark side of the Force. Let's help him !
--
= Lion =
"Yeah I called her up, she gave me a bunch of crap about me not
listening to her, or something, I don't know, I wasn't really paying
attention.."
PhatSaqs
[snip]
>Yang is one dimensional, yes... but so is the entire game.
No disagreement at all here.
>Ah. Cali-bashing again. Is it because non-Cali players don't get
>enough attention so they have to do this?
Cali bashing? Come on Kuro. Let's not turn this into another one
of "those" threads. What I stated is sadly the truth. Alot of people,
tend to take certain individuals (without naming names) word as gospel when it
comes to this issue. Think about it. Would the power of V-Akuma ever had been
discovered had it not been for a certain individual from Japan? I'm sure alot of
people were already willing to take the "US rankings" for A3 at that time
as the final say which had Akuma placed mid tier at best.
>Certain (ahem) EC players were calling Honda OVERPOWERED when a3 was
>released.
In my, and many others humble opinions (yes, even some certain ahem, WC
players), Honda was a brute in the BETA version where the Jab HB was NOT air
blockable and he did significantly more damage than he does in the final
version. Unfortunately for Honda, the tweaks that he received seemed to render
him damn near useless now.
> Some people, regardless of where they live, like to rush
>to judgements, not just people who live in the western portion of our
>country.
You're really taking this way too offensively dude. Regardless of where they
come from, my point is that peeps shouldn't look at these rankings as the final
say just because it may have come from a reputable player. Especially early in a
games existence. Maybe I could've been a little clearer as to what I was saying
exactly.
>Excuse me, but who the hell ever said Guy was top tier in A3? I've
>never heard this from anyone or anywhere.
Again, without naming names, just after the Nationals, several peeps who
witnessed the action were in IRC spewing that Guy was now top tier "because of a
70+% combo". You are excused :).
>As for Akuma, the rankings I saw out there had him at least in the top
>5. That's pretty damn close to top tier, if not top tier in itself.
Again, I guess I could've been a little clearer when I said that I didn't think
Akuma was tops. Tops meaning, #1, best of the best, etc. I agree he is most
likely top "tier" material though.
>Our generation is comprised of people with incredibly short attention
>spans. These days, most fighting games seem to age a decade a month
>(A3 is already collecting social security!)... and our die-hard
>players aren't getting any younger either. Most of us don't have the
>time to devote to these games like we used to.
Sad but true. Looking at the scene in Japan, you can see that the SF scene here
was never even close to what they have over there at any time, on any version.
>BTW, A3 is my favorite version now. ST still comes in a close second
>though. Sorry, old-schoolers. =)
ST is ass :p. You have been assimilated :)
--------------------
Beware the PhatSaqs
Ric
--------------------
EViLwebby
have potential, so...
Let me first say my bit on SF3... I actually liked it. Then
2I came along, and I thought it was a *huge* improvement. If 3S
is as much of an improvement again, I'm gonna be all smiles.
People go on about parries and option select, but I don't accept
that anyone can just play the game and start parrying entire
shinryukens etc, and option selecting is something about 1 in 10
people managed to do effectively around here, even amongst
players who were pretty good Alpha players.
SF3 requires skill, but not the same level of manual dexterity to
effectively control your character as the Alpha games. IMO, tact
and knowledge of the correct counters in defensive situations are
your primary weapons in the III series (if that isn't contradictory)
whilst knowledge and application of patterns/traps and manual
dexterity with the control stick are your primary weapons in
the Alpha series.
I've played people on A1/2/3 who would whip my butt, but then in
return I would give them a good hiding on SF3/2I. I don't accept
that's because SFIII is a lower skill game (although I think that
it is), but more because it requires you to excel with *different*
skills from Alpha.
Milo D. Cooper
>
> [...]
> BTW, A3 is my favorite version now. ST still comes in a close second
> though. Sorry, old-schoolers. =)
Whatever.
--
/|__Milo D. Cooper__________________EverQuest character modeler__|\
\| www.milos-chalkboard.net www.station.sony.com/everquest |/
magius eternal
> Hey, it's been a while since I've posted anything, but thread looks to
> have potential, so...
Have I even ever posted anything? Hmmm... I don't seem to remember doing
so...
>
> Let me first say my bit on SF3... I actually liked it. Then
> 2I came along, and I thought it was a *huge* improvement. If 3S
> is as much of an improvement again, I'm gonna be all smiles.
> People go on about parries and option select, but I don't accept
> that anyone can just play the game and start parrying entire
> shinryukens etc, and option selecting is something about 1 in 10
> people managed to do effectively around here, even amongst
> players who were pretty good Alpha players.
Actually, where I play, we're not all that great, but people do parry
entire supers, even things like shinukens, etc. However, we don't tend to
have problems with SF3's parrying -- most of the time, at least in vs.
play, the only things that are parried are fireballs. No one ever (hardly
ever, at least, and not on a regular basis by any stretch of the
imagination) parries into big combos (mostly 2-hitters). Myself, I don't
parry except for fireballs or corner traps.
>
> SF3 requires skill, but not the same level of manual dexterity to
> effectively control your character as the Alpha games. IMO, tact
> and knowledge of the correct counters in defensive situations are
> your primary weapons in the III series (if that isn't contradictory)
> whilst knowledge and application of patterns/traps and manual
> dexterity with the control stick are your primary weapons in
> the Alpha series.
>
I liked that. I mean, in Alpha games (arcade versions, not home) I can
hardly ever pull off an air hurricane kick (laugh all you want), but I
find doing moves much easier in SF3.
> I've played people on A1/2/3 who would whip my butt, but then in
> return I would give them a good hiding on SF3/2I. I don't accept
> that's because SFIII is a lower skill game (although I think that
> it is), but more because it requires you to excel with *different*
> skills from Alpha.
>
>
My partial solution to parries is to make them give you recoverable
damage a la Darkstalkers. That is, if you parry a move, you sustain
damage about equal to blocking, but it's a different color, and it goes
away as long as you don't get hit. That way, parrying supers has an
effect.
Just my $.02 worth,
magius
Onaje Everett
sefir...@aol.com (SefirosuLB) wrote:
> >>my newly found Tricky Krazy Ken Hurricane Kick trap
> >
> >i've heard you talk about this many times....what exactly is this Krazy
> >Ken stuff?
>
> I think I know what it is. This is it:
>
> Crouching Medium Kick, two-in-one into Hurricane Kick (use Hard Kick)
>
> Just keep doing that over and over. I may be wrong, but this is what I know
> of.
If that's ALL you do, you'll eventually get parried or something. No no. My
traps are deeper than that. Read my post to get a full understanding.
Kuro
>Cali bashing? Come on Kuro. Let's not turn this into another one
>of "those" threads. What I stated is sadly the truth. Alot of people,
>tend to take certain individuals (without naming names) word as gospel when it
>comes to this issue. Think about it. Would the power of V-Akuma ever had been
>discovered had it not been for a certain individual from Japan? I'm sure alot of
>people were already willing to take the "US rankings" for A3 at that time
>as the final say which had Akuma placed mid tier at best.
These people are sheep and should be ignored. You know that.
90% of everything here is contributed by a fanboy or some adolescent
fool spouting his mouth off.
How many of the Nationals top 16 post here? For the past year I
averaged maybe one posta month. God, am I the only one? Maybe I
should stop completely... I might jump a tier.
Anyway, no one in CA tried to make V-Akuma a tournament character.
The only person here that had a tournament-Akuma was Schaefer (A-ism).
He's not that creative of a player, but he's a smart one and can sure
as hell spot a cheap-ass character when he sees one (ST - O Sagat,
Balrog, Bison.. A2 - Shotos, Chun, Rose.. A3 - Dhalsim, Akuma).
Anyone who knew their stuff knew Akuma was up there.
>>Certain (ahem) EC players were calling Honda OVERPOWERED when a3 was
>>released.
>
>In my, and many others humble opinions (yes, even some certain ahem, WC
>players), Honda was a brute in the BETA version where the Jab HB was NOT air
>blockable and he did significantly more damage than he does in the final
>version. Unfortunately for Honda, the tweaks that he received seemed to render
>him damn near useless now.
Perhaps in the EARLY BETA, which was Sunnyvale only. The betas that
were distributed elsewhere were quite different from the Sunnyvale one
and not that far off from what a3 is now.
Honda sucked ass in my beta.
>> Some people, regardless of where they live, like to rush
>>to judgements, not just people who live in the western portion of our
>>country.
>
>You're really taking this way too offensively dude. Regardless of where they
>come from, my point is that peeps shouldn't look at these rankings as the final
>say just because it may have come from a reputable player. Especially early in a
>games existence. Maybe I could've been a little clearer as to what I was saying
>exactly.
Were rankings really posted on here that often?
I remember Schaefer with his weekly rankings for a while.. this was
waaay back near the beta/release. Schaefer had Akuma at 5. My sole
ranking had A/V-Akuma at 7, and this was just two weeks after the
release, when no one was playing v-ism yet. The last Schaefer ranking
I saw had Akuma at 4, which was a while before nationals.
Jason Wilson (DreamTR) had him at 6. Julien (yeah, he was in Japan,
but he knows what he's talking about wherever he is) had him at 3.
Aside from that, I never saw a ranking from another 'noteworthy'
person. I only remember a few rediculous rankings from some anonymous
posters... part of that 90% fanboy pool, no doubt.
>>Excuse me, but who the hell ever said Guy was top tier in A3? I've
>>never heard this from anyone or anywhere.
>
>Again, without naming names, just after the Nationals, several peeps who
>witnessed the action were in IRC spewing that Guy was now top tier "because of a
>70+% combo". You are excused :).
Sheep. #Capcom is slowly filling up with sheep, just as this
newsgroup has for the past 2 years.
Anyway, I never remember seeing this. I'm sure people were just
excited about someone kicking ass with Guy. I sure as hell was, but I
wasn't foolish enough to put him top tier because of it.
>>As for Akuma, the rankings I saw out there had him at least in the top
>>5. That's pretty damn close to top tier, if not top tier in itself.
>
>Again, I guess I could've been a little clearer when I said that I didn't think
>Akuma was tops. Tops meaning, #1, best of the best, etc. I agree he is most
>likely top "tier" material though.
I don't think Akuma is #1 either. Yoga flame.
BTW, Julien posted a ton of info on V-Akuma while the Japanese
tournament was going on, with details on the vicious Akuma VCs.
--
Kuro
kur...@netscape.net
Kuro
wrote:
>[clip]
>>
>>BTW, A3 is my favorite version now. ST still comes in a close second
>>though. Sorry, old-schoolers. =)
>>
>Who are you, and what have you done with the real Bob Painter?
I'm actually Allen Klein, faking posts.
What's wrong with liking A3? =) I think it was a HUGE improvement
over A2, which was a VERY HUGE improvement over A1.
Super Turbo is ART... a masterpiece. The gameplay is tight. Still
the best engine ever made, but can anyone play ST these days like they
did years ago when it was the current game? Those days are gone.
Forget about it. Move on...
--
Kuro
kur...@netscape.net
Kuro
>> Kuro wrote:
>>
>> [...]
>> BTW, A3 is my favorite version now. ST still comes in a close second
>> though. Sorry, old-schoolers. =)
>
> Whatever.
Enjoy V-sim, mitch.
---
Kuro
kur...@netscape.net
PhatSaqs
>These people are sheep and should be ignored. You know that.
>
>90% of everything here is contributed by a fanboy or some adolescent
>fool spouting his mouth off.
>
>How many of the Nationals top 16 post here? For the past year I
>averaged maybe one posta month. God, am I the only one? Maybe I
>should stop completely... I might jump a tier.
Heh. Nah. It's good to see/have a somewhat reasonable thread amidst the
wealth of seaweed that fills this NG. You should start a "Why A3 trashes ST"
thread :p.
>Anyway, no one in CA tried to make V-Akuma a tournament character.
>The only person here that had a tournament-Akuma was Schaefer (A-ism).
>He's not that creative of a player, but he's a smart one and can sure
>as hell spot a cheap-ass character when he sees one (ST - O Sagat,
>Balrog, Bison.. A2 - Shotos, Chun, Rose.. A3 - Dhalsim, Akuma).
>Anyone who knew their stuff knew Akuma was up there.
Nod.
>Perhaps in the EARLY BETA, which was Sunnyvale only. The betas that
>were distributed elsewhere were quite different from the Sunnyvale one
>and not that far off from what a3 is now.
>
>Honda sucked ass in my beta.
He sure didn't in my beta. Anytime a player like Chocobo can run off 20+ game
win streaks, you know something has to be wrong.
>Were rankings really posted on here that often?
Is anything worth noting really posted on here that often?
>Sheep. #Capcom is slowly filling up with sheep, just as this
>newsgroup has for the past 2 years.
No shit. Someone could make a killing by providing a net based Sheepherder
service. :)
>Anyway, I never remember seeing this. I'm sure people were just
>excited about someone kicking ass with Guy. I sure as hell was, but I
>wasn't foolish enough to put him top tier because of it.
Yah. *shrug*
>I don't think Akuma is #1 either. Yoga flame.
Hmph. This game has been out for how long now? And I still am not comfortable
with making a decision as to who should be tops in the top tier. Personally, I
think the top tier could hold as many as 6 or 7 characters.
>BTW, Julien posted a ton of info on V-Akuma while the Japanese
>tournament was going on, with details on the vicious Akuma VCs.
Yah, I remember that. He hasn't done one of those "Japan SF scene" posts in a
while. How's it going over there Julien? Any new A3 stuff? :)
BTW Kuro, you're coming to ecc4 right?
Saqs
Lion
>
> What's wrong with liking A3? =) I think it was a HUGE improvement
> over A2, which was a VERY HUGE improvement over A1.
>
> Super Turbo is ART... a masterpiece. The gameplay is tight. Still
> the best engine ever made, but can anyone play ST these days like they
> did years ago when it was the current game? Those days are gone.
> Forget about it. Move on...
>
and play the right people... man...
Jeff Jarlett
>What's wrong with liking A3? =) I think it was a HUGE improvement
>over A2, which was a VERY HUGE improvement over A1.
This is one of the truer things said on here. It's a huge improvement. You
don't play V-ism, it's great, you play V-ism, it's still good. It's not at
the ST level of skill, but in some ways it is a bit more fun for me because
of the character designs. A3 is actually fun against a good opponent, A2
was not.
I'd actually look forward to an Alpha 4, though I can't see what they'd do
with it.
JB Gainz
>I'd actually look forward to an Alpha 4, though I can't see what they'd do
>with it.
>
LOL... buddy it aint gonna happen. I am pretty sure it is common knowledge
that Capcom decided to end the SFA series. What else could you do anyway. The
game has so much too it, there is no way to improve it without making something
totally new game. I wouldn't go for them adding in more characters, because
the character count is out of hand. I prefer less characters with more time
spend on make improvements.. as apose to making Juli's and Juni or whatever...
JB GAINZ
Onaje Everett
jbg...@aol.com (JB Gainz) wrote:
> Jeff Jarlett wrote:
>
> >I'd actually look forward to an Alpha 4, though I can't see what they'd do
> >with it.
> >
>
> LOL... buddy it aint gonna happen. I am pretty sure it is common knowledge
> that Capcom decided to end the SFA series.
JB, I think he knew that. Why else would he say "I WOULD actually look
forward to an Alpha 4". Context clues, bruh. Use 'em.
What else could you do anyway.
The
> game has so much too it, there is no way to improve it without making
something
> totally new game.
Isn't that what was said about Super Turbo? Alpha 2? Second Impact?
Just because you may have a lack of innovation doesn't mean Capcom does. You
never truly know with Capcom. I mean, you NEVER really know (as in, you don't
know what good or bad is going to come out of Capcom until it happens).
> I wouldn't go for them adding in more characters, because
> the character count is out of hand.
Please. Doesn't the KoF series have more characters? (Yes, it does.) It's
not even close to "out of hand". The more, the merrier, I say.
Milo D. Cooper
>
> What's wrong with liking A3? =) I think it was a HUGE improvement
> over A2, which was a VERY HUGE improvement over A1.
I don't think that there's *anything* wrong with liking Alpha 3.
It's a great game. What I take issue with is your claiming that
it's the *best* fighting game ever made.
> Super Turbo is ART... a masterpiece. The gameplay is tight. Still
> the best engine ever made, but can anyone play ST these days like they
> did years ago when it was the current game? Those days are gone.
> Forget about it. Move on...
Is *this* why Alpha 3 is now your favorite SF game? Because
everyone is either too rusty at Super Turbo or too well set into
Alpha game play? I just want to be clear on your justification for
bumping ST to second place before I respond any further. In the
meantime, I agree with Julien Beasley and Seth Killian that Super
Turbo is still the king. If you need to be reminded of their
assertions, feel free to visit this URL:
http://x13.dejanews.com/[ST_rn=ps]/getdoc.xp?AN=417749101&CONTEXT=919991044.1805123676&hitnum=41
The ball is now in your court.
Milo D. Cooper
>
> Actually, I'm afraid the a3 scene is pretty sad. I have not been to the "big"
> A3 arcades recently, but almost all the regular arcades have a3 stuffed into
> a corner with no one playing.
What? The best Street Fighter game ever ((c) 1999 Bob Painter), dead
in Japan?
> Even power stone and jojo's adventure are
> relatively unused. Dance Dance revolution (is this game out in the US?) and
> DDR 2nd mix are very big, and the music/beatmania style of game is taking
> over.
>
> On a positive note, these dance games are suprisingly fun! They look stupid,
> but you really get a kick out it, and 2p mode is a blast. This is actually
> the first non fighting arcade game I've really enjoyed since SF2 came
> out(wow). The hard modes are REALLY hard, and you need a suprising amount of
> coordination or practice too keep up. I don't like the beatmania style games
> too much, as they seem to hard and the music is very bad (imho),
You're on the Devil's own CRACK, Julien. BeatMania music is excellent
(especially for a video game); you must not have been paying attention.
Puts every other game of its type to rank *shame*, in that department.
> but the
> dance games have fun music (the "aie aie ai, my little samurai" song is a
> total "Barbie Girl" by Aqua clone.. silly repetitive music, but fun to dance
> to) and don't require the precision timing Beatmania does (or seems to).
Yeah man, I've been waiting for any sign of those Dance Dance games
to show up here, after having played BeatMania (Bob and I are crazy
about it).
> ST, of course, is still going on strong in its specialized ST arcades.
> [...]
Enjoy it, Painter.
j...@my-dejanews.com
PhatSaqs <Phat...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> >BTW, Julien posted a ton of info on V-Akuma while the Japanese
> >tournament was going on, with details on the vicious Akuma VCs.
>
> Yah, I remember that. He hasn't done one of those "Japan SF scene" posts in a
> while. How's it going over there Julien? Any new A3 stuff? :)
Actually, I'm afraid the a3 scene is pretty sad. I have not been to the "big"
A3 arcades recently, but almost all the regular arcades have a3 stuffed into
a corner with no one playing. Even power stone and jojo's adventure are
relatively unused. Dance Dance revolution (is this game out in the US?) and
DDR 2nd mix are very big, and the music/beatmania style of game is taking
over.
On a positive note, these dance games are suprisingly fun! They look stupid,
but you really get a kick out it, and 2p mode is a blast. This is actually
the first non fighting arcade game I've really enjoyed since SF2 came
out(wow). The hard modes are REALLY hard, and you need a suprising amount of
coordination or practice too keep up. I don't like the beatmania style games
too much, as they seem to hard and the music is very bad (imho), but the
dance games have fun music (the "aie aie ai, my little samurai" song is a
total "Barbie Girl" by Aqua clone.. silly repetitive music, but fun to dance
to) and don't require the precision timing Beatmania does (or seems to).
ST, of course, is still going on strong in its specialized ST arcades.
small note: I dropped by one of the ST arcades recently, and played a bit of
A2. There was a very very good A2 akuma player. He used tricks like jump in,
air FB, then walk up to you while you are blocking and sometimes throw,
sometimes AC whatever you do after the FB. A very nice varation on the
standard (throw OR DP/low RH) because it took into account the AC. Low RH is
not safe b/c of the low AC, and DPing a limb has never been safe at all
(except old ken in ST). Instead of tricking you into either standing up or
blocking low, he tricks you into hesitate (get thrown) or stick out a limb
(get AC'd). You can't CC because the air FB has forced you to block. Similar
in intent to John Choi's "roll towards you on purpose to AC your counter"
move, but here this guy used it as a tick setup backed by the air FB to avoid
a devasatating CC counter.
Not a game breaking tick, but it was nice to see a well thought out setup
correctly excecuted (I chose to block and low RH, which got AC'd, in case you
were wondering :)
My out of practice Chun Li could not prcc for the life of me, and after
spazzing many CC's, I just resorted to the normal triple kick CC which does
"only" 40% damage (The big drawback being that even at level 3, you usually
tend to only get time for 2 triple kicks which effectively means level 3 =
level 2 = level 1). Anyways, it was fun and he was a very good akuma player.
Gives me some faith in the super birdie stories I've heard.
Lion, post a report about tokyo you scrub. We need something to read.
-Julien
-- don't read the next lines --
PS: James Margaris. I don't know where you got the idea I was from Boston. I
just went to school there for 4 years. I am Californian by origin and now live
in Tokyo. I don't speak with a Bostonian accent either. Thank you.
JB Gainz
>> JB Gainz wrote:
>> game[SFA3] has so much too it, there is no way to improve it without making
>some
>> totally new game.
>
>Isn't that what was said about Super Turbo? Alpha 2? Second Impact?
Ah, I don't know anyone who thought Alpha 2, ST, and SF3:2I was the best the
series could get. Everyone I know, including myself had tons of ideas to
improve the games. Alpha2 was severely unbalanced.. and the custom
combos..yuck!. ST, was fun, but a lot of people wanted more fighters in the
game.. tired of the 12. Only hardcore SF players like myself were even
interested in SuperSF2, when it came out, because it was basically the same
game as ST, just a couple of extra fighters.. who were mediocre at best. As
for second impact.. I think most would agree they could see room for
improvement... I really don't even have to explain that one. As for SF3:3S, I
can see room for improvement their without even playing the game... character
design has gone down the drain.
I still think SFA3 is the best SFA can get without either making some lame
upgrade like SFA3:2nd Strike or something.... or making a totally new game...
SFLegends maybe?
JB GAINZ
Ace-ISM
JB Gainz wrote in message <19990226021133...@ng-fu1.aol.com>...
<snip>
>I still think SFA3 is the best SFA can get without either making some lame
>upgrade like SFA3:2nd Strike or something.... or making a totally new
game...
>SFLegends maybe?
>
>JB GAINZ
Errr ... how do you know that when you admitted to only playing A3 once or
twice before? (on GPOW).
--
Ace-ISM
http://karin.gamespage.com
"How strange... It's wilting... Ha! Ha!" - Lilith
-
Kuro
> I don't think that there's *anything* wrong with liking Alpha 3.
>It's a great game. What I take issue with is your claiming that
>it's the *best* fighting game ever made.
I never said that.
I said 'A3 is now my favorite'. I didn't say I think A3 is the 'best
fighting game ever made'.
Christopher Walken is my favorite actor; however I do not think that
he is the best actor in Hollywood today.
> Is *this* why Alpha 3 is now your favorite SF game? Because
>everyone is either too rusty at Super Turbo or too well set into
>Alpha game play? I just want to be clear on your justification for
>bumping ST to second place before I respond any further. In the
>meantime, I agree with Julien Beasley and Seth Killian that Super
>Turbo is still the king. If you need to be reminded of their
>assertions, feel free to visit this URL:
Everyone IS too rusty when we play now. Usually due to request, ST is
brought in to SHGL to play during or after A3 tournaments. The last
two occasions I watched and played ST on a tournament day, it was a
complete joke. People were mising and mistiming DPs, failing horribly
in their FB trap attempts, failing to reverse ticks, missing combos
all over the place, etc.
I much prefer the overall damage level of A3. I love the guard meter
concept. I like the fact that A3 has more characters with several
variations of each. This makes A3 more fun and enjoyable to me.
If you want to hear me say I think Super Turbo is the best version,
then here it is: Super Turbo is still the king.
Satisfied?
--
Bob Painter
kur...@netscape.net
Milo D. Cooper
>> Milo D. Cooper wrote:
>>
>> I don't think that there's *anything* wrong with liking Alpha 3.
>> It's a great game. What I take issue with is your claiming that
>> it's the *best* fighting game ever made.
>
> I never said that.
>
> I said 'A3 is now my favorite'. I didn't say I think A3 is the 'best
> fighting game ever made'.
>
> Christopher Walken is my favorite actor; however I do not think that
> he is the best actor in Hollywood today.
So, whether a fighting game is your favorite depends on how much
fun it is for you, not how good the engine happens to be. Gothca.
Ultima
> In article <36D1B529...@rit.edu>, Ultima <jas...@rit.edu> wrote:
> >SFA3: Beginner to Upper-level intermediate: VCs are harder to pull off than CCs and you don't pull them off quite as often, and ACs are
> >virtually useless, so you really only see it at the upper threshold of players. Beginners can also have fun with this one due to the easy
> >juggling system.
> I don't know... there are a bunch of damned easy VCs, which only take a little bit of figuring out.
Perhaps. But the application of those VCs takes at least intermediate
level skill (unless you think the intermediate level is less than where
I think it is), and abusing them so bad that it gets annoying takes
expert level. IMO of course...
> >XSF: All skill levels: Beginners have it easy because they can mash and pick SCAR WORK characters. Experts can have fun learning all the
> >infinites and long-ass combos. INtermediate players lie somewhere
> >in-between, though I think that's probably the least fun area to be in for this game (Note: I've never really played XSF - this is based on
> >second hand info)
> Beginner, and everything else is infinite comboland. Some of them are just sick... air kick lariat, repeat. Wtf.
I guess so. But experts can busy themselves trying to find all the
various infinites, even if using them during the fight actually sucks.
:\
--
Ultima - The Right Arm of Scrub Voltron
http://members.xoom.com/Ultima1 - The Street Fighter RPG Manifesto!
http://members.xoom.com/ShinUltima - U's Ultimate Rambling Page
If an arcade doesn't have a version of SF or SS in it, then it's not an
arcade
David Wright
>Onaje wrote:
>
>>> JB Gainz wrote:
>
>>> game[SFA3] has so much too it, there is no way to improve it without making
>>some
>>> totally new game.
>>
>>Isn't that what was said about Super Turbo? Alpha 2? Second Impact?
>
>Ah, I don't know anyone who thought Alpha 2, ST, and SF3:2I was the best the
>series could get. Everyone I know, including myself had tons of ideas to
>improve the games. Alpha2 was severely unbalanced.. and the custom
>combos..yuck!. ST, was fun, but a lot of people wanted more fighters in the
>game.. tired of the 12. Only hardcore SF players like myself were even
ST has 17 characters. Plus 16 of them have "old" versions.
>interested in SuperSF2, when it came out, because it was basically the same
>game as ST, just a couple of extra fighters.. who were mediocre at best. As
Super did kinda suck, but ST is a different story, DJ is good, Fei Long is way
too much fun.
>for second impact.. I think most would agree they could see room for
>improvement... I really don't even have to explain that one. As for SF3:3S, I
>can see room for improvement their without even playing the game... character
>design has gone down the drain.
Character design is ONLY a matter of opinion.
>
>I still think SFA3 is the best SFA can get without either making some lame
>upgrade like SFA3:2nd Strike or something.... or making a totally new game...
>SFLegends maybe?
SFA3 still has problems with it. And SFA2 is IMO more balanced than SFA3. At
least for now.
Shaun Patrick Mcisaac
>SFA3: Beginner to Upper-level intermediate: VCs are harder to pull off
>than CCs and you don't pull them off quite as often, and ACs are
>virtually useless, so you really only see it at the upper threshold of
>players. Beginners can also have fun with this one due to the easy
>juggling system.
I don't know... there are a bunch of damned easy VCs, which only
take a little bit of figuring out.
>XSF: All skill levels: Beginners have it easy because they can mash and
>pick SCAR WORK characters. Experts can have fun learning all the
>infinites and long-ass combos. INtermediate players lie somewhere
>in-between, though I think that's probably the least fun area to be in
>for this game (Note: I've never really played XSF - this is based on
>second hand info)
Beginner, and everything else is infinite comboland. Some of them
are just sick... air kick lariat, repeat. Wtf.
--
SPM...
PINE 3.95 SIGNATURE EDITOR Folder: INBOX 0 Messages
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JB Gainz
>twice before? (on GPOW).
>
>
First of all, you don't have to play a game to know about it when everyone is
posting about it... and there are tons of game pages about it. Another thing..
I have played it a couple of times since then....
.. Guess you got bored and made this dumb post... :-)
JB GAINZ
Onaje Everett
Umm....reading about a game and playing a game are two different things.
Logic, bruh. Use it. Think hard on this one.
Onaje Everett
o_ev...@hotmail.com
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."
-Philippians 4:13
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Ace-ISM
JB Gainz wrote in message <19990227033003...@ng-fv1.aol.com>...
>>Errr ... how do you know that when you admitted to only playing A3 once or
>>twice before? (on GPOW).
>>
>>
>
>First of all, you don't have to play a game to know about it when everyone
is
>posting about it... and there are tons of game pages about it. Another
thing..
>I have played it a couple of times since then....
>.. Guess you got bored and made this dumb post... :-)
No I just found it ridiculous that you post things like this when you don't
even know what the hell you're going on about ...
eg. A3 E-Honda thread.
eg. Saying stuff about "Bob Painter"
eg. Supers in EX2
eg. Just about any of your posts really. I bet I could go through Deja-News
and find some really juicy ones and make you look *really* stupid. But
you're doing fine on your own. :)
Sayanara!
PS Before you say stuff about a game, I think you need to have "played" said
game more than once or twice. Just a bit of advice - I still don't believe
that you've done this judging from the level of info in your posts.
Shaun Patrick Mcisaac
>Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
>> In article <36D1B529...@rit.edu>, Ultima <jas...@rit.edu> wrote:
>> I don't know... there are a bunch of damned easy VCs, which
only take a little bit of figuring out.
>Perhaps. But the application of those VCs takes at least intermediate
>level skill (unless you think the intermediate level is less than where
>I think it is), and abusing them so bad that it gets annoying takes
>expert level. IMO of course...
Well, perhaps we have differing definitions of ass easy VCs. I
call a VC ass easy if someone who's been playing SF for about 1 year, and
has only played A3 about 5-6 times, can juggle my ass for the whole damned
meter, and do 60 fucking percent, can pull it. Oops.
>> Beginner, and everything else is infinite comboland. Some of
them are just sick... air kick lariat, repeat. Wtf.
>
>I guess so. But experts can busy themselves trying to find all the
>various infinites, even if using them during the fight actually sucks.
>:\
That's not playing SF. That's writting a book report for the fun
of it.
Ultima
> >Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
> >> In article <36D1B529...@rit.edu>, Ultima <jas...@rit.edu> wrote:
> >> I don't know... there are a bunch of damned easy VCs, which
> only take a little bit of figuring out.
> >Perhaps. But the application of those VCs takes at least intermediate
> >level skill (unless you think the intermediate level is less than where think it is), and abusing them so bad that it gets annoying takes
> >expert level. IMO of course...
> Well, perhaps we have differing definitions of ass easy VCs. I call a VC ass easy if someone who's been playing SF for about 1 year, and has only played A3 about 5-6 times, can juggle my ass for the whole damned meter, and do 60 fucking percent, can pull it. Oops.
Depending on what one plays and who one plays, as well as whan natural
talent one possesses, one can learn quite a bit in a year. Even so, no
one I've ever played was capable of juggling me for 60% with a VC if
they only played A3 5 or 6 times. Not unless someone showed him (or her)
how to do it and when to do it. I find this an exaggeration unless
you've got some exceedingly talented players by you.
Even so, just being able to execute the VC is one thing. Being able to
pull it off successfully every time you need it is another, and THAT is
not an easy-ass thing to do (invicibilty window be damned).
> >> Beginner, and everything else is infinite comboland. Some of them are just sick... air kick lariat, repeat. Wtf.
> >I guess so. But experts can busy themselves trying to find all the
> >various infinites, even if using them during the fight actually sucks. >:\
> That's not playing SF. That's writting a book report for the fun of it.
*Shrugs* Some people just like finding combos. And long-ass
combos/infinites fall into that category. I don't care for it
personally, but hey...
Spider-Dan
"Milo D. Cooper" <mi...@milos-chalkboard.net> wrote:
> > Kuro wrote:
> >> Milo D. Cooper wrote:
> >>
> >> I don't think that there's *anything* wrong with liking Alpha 3.
> >> It's a great game. What I take issue with is your claiming that
> >> it's the *best* fighting game ever made.
> >
> > I never said that.
> >
> > I said 'A3 is now my favorite'. I didn't say I think A3 is the 'best
> > fighting game ever made'.
> >
> > Christopher Walken is my favorite actor; however I do not think that
> > he is the best actor in Hollywood today.
> > [...]
>
> So, whether a fighting game is your favorite depends on how much
> fun it is for you, not how good the engine happens to be. Gothca.
Gotta agree with Bob here; I don't think it's uncommon for a person's
favorite game to be different from the game they think has the technically
"best" (which is usually translated as "least flawed") engine. For example,
I think VF3 has probably the "best" engine of any game I've played, but I
don't particularly enjoy playing the game. To put it more in SF terms, HF
has the "best" engine, I think, but ST is more fun, and I enjoy playing it
more. Chess is a "good" game in terms of strategy, but I wouldn't call that
my favorite "board game" (in the loose sense) by any means, because Monopoly
is just more fun IMO.
ST is still better than A3, though.
--
Dan Thompson (Spider-Dan)
[send email to] edge [at] chipware [dot] net
Milo D. Cooper
>> Milo D. Cooper wrote:
>>>
>>> [...]
>>> I said 'A3 is now my favorite'. I didn't say I think A3 is the 'best
>>> fighting game ever made'.
>>>
>>> Christopher Walken is my favorite actor; however I do not think that
>>> he is the best actor in Hollywood today.
>>> [...]
>>
>> So, whether a fighting game is your favorite depends on how much
>> fun it is for you, not how good the engine happens to be. Gothca.
>
> Gotta agree with Bob here; I don't think it's uncommon for a person's
> favorite game to be different from the game they think has the technically
> "best" (which is usually translated as "least flawed") engine. For example,
> I think VF3 has probably the "best" engine of any game I've played, but I
> don't particularly enjoy playing the game. To put it more in SF terms, HF
> has the "best" engine, I think, but ST is more fun, and I enjoy playing it
> more. Chess is a "good" game in terms of strategy, but I wouldn't call that
> my favorite "board game" (in the loose sense) by any means, because Monopoly
> is just more fun IMO.
>
> ST is still better than A3, though.
No, I was being sincere. I can completely understand how Bob can
consider one game his favorite, and another the best (objectively-
speaking). It makes sense. Like I said when he initially proclaimed
A3 his new favorite, though, "whatever" -- i.e. who cares?
We get "game X is my favorite" posts here all the time -- well more
so than when a.g.sf2 was in its prime, which is a symptom of the decay
that this newsgroup has suffered. Cammy and Adon are my favorite
characters in the Street Fighter series; so what? They certainly
aren't the best, so who cares? A lot of my posts may be brazenly rude,
but I'm generally very objective (i.e. I back myself up with factual
analyses, not subjective "x is my favorite but not the best" opinions),
and that makes them interesting reading. If, on the other hand, I
wrote nothing but "x is my favorite but not the best" articles, I doubt
that anyone would care much, if at all.
Ultima
[snip]
Should I..? Nah...?
I... must... resist...
*Resists urge.. unsuccessfully*
Ah fuck it.
> A lot of my posts may be brazenly rude, but I'm generally very objective (i.e. I back myself up with factual analyses, not subjective "x is my favorite but not the best" opinions), and that makes them interesting reading. If, on the other hand, I wrote nothing but "x is my favorite but not the best" articles, I doubt that anyone would care much, if at all.
But no one cares about what you say, regardless...
;)
Sorry Milo. It was too good an opportunity to pass up. ^_^
Milo D. Cooper
>> Milo D. Cooper wrote:
>
>
> ;)
>
> Sorry Milo. It was too good an opportunity to pass up. ^_^
You're joking, right? I need to know.
Shaun Patrick Mcisaac
>Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
>> In article <36D75C9F...@rit.edu>, Ultima <jas...@rit.edu> wrote:
>> >Shaun Patrick Mcisaac wrote:
>> >> In article <36D1B529...@rit.edu>, Ultima <jas...@rit.edu> wrote:
>> >> I don't know... there are a bunch of damned easy VCs, which
>> only take a little bit of figuring out.
>> >Perhaps. But the application of those VCs takes at least intermediate
>> >level skill (unless you think the intermediate level is less than where think it is), and abusing them so bad that it gets annoying takes
>> >expert level. IMO of course...
>> Well, perhaps we have differing definitions of ass easy VCs.
>>I call a VC ass easy if someone who's been playing SF for about 1 year,
>>and has only played A3 about 5-6 times, can juggle my ass for the whole
>>damned meter, and do 60 fucking percent, can pull it. Oops.
>Depending on what one plays and who one plays, as well as whan natural
>talent one possesses, one can learn quite a bit in a year. Even so, no
>one I've ever played was capable of juggling me for 60% with a VC if
>they only played A3 5 or 6 times. Not unless someone showed him
>(or her)
>how to do it and when to do it. I find this an exaggeration unless
>you've got some exceedingly talented players by you.
It's true, what can I say. Sol was the one who pulled it, and it
was his first time with that particular VC. AFAIK, the only times either
of us has played A3 is in our trips to Denis' / Super Just Games. Ok,
that's maybe like, 9-10 total times. 2 SJG, 8 Denis. Yay. I don't know,
maybe Sol's a VC genius or something, and it wasn't apparent.
>Even so, just being able to execute the VC is one thing. Being able to
>pull it off successfully every time you need it is another, and THAT is
>not an easy-ass thing to do (invicibilty window be damned).
Heh.
PS - Bob Painter has joined the dark side; That sucks.
kayin/ka khiong kwok
too much. I'm as guilty of this as the next guy, but really, some of the
other posts really needs to be cleaned up. You're got so much quoting it's
down right ridiculous.
Cheers,
Ka.
=== A suggestion to future medical students... ===
A cure-all headache tablet for women. :')
Ultima
[snip]
> You're joking, right? I need to know.
Yes. Didn't you see the smiley face on the line following what I said?
:)
Milo D. Cooper
>> Milo D. Cooper wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
>> You're joking, right? I need to know.
>
> Yes. Didn't you see the smiley face on the line following what I said?
> :)
Yeah, I saw it. If it *hadn't* been there, I'd have proceeded to
rip into you.
Ultima
>
> > Ultima wrote:
> >> Milo D. Cooper wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> >> You're joking, right? I need to know.
> >
> > Yes. Didn't you see the smiley face on the line following what I said?
> > :)
>
> Yeah, I saw it. If it *hadn't* been there, I'd have proceeded to
> rip into you.
Heh. And I would have counter-ripped, which probably would have gotten
us nowhere. Oh well. We'll file it under "Great Flame Wars that Never
Was" ^_^
Onaje Everett
>
> I... must... resist...
>
> *Resists urge.. unsuccessfully*
>
> Ah fuck it.
>
> > A lot of my posts may be brazenly rude, but I'm generally very objective
(i.e. I back myself up with factual analyses, not subjective "x is my favorite
but not the best" opinions), and that makes them interesting reading. If, on
the other hand, I wrote nothing but "x is my favorite but not the best"
articles, I doubt that anyone would care much, if at all.
>
>
> ;)
>
> Sorry Milo. It was too good an opportunity to pass up. ^_^
(Linn Kurosawa mode on)
MY TURN!
(Linn mode off)
Actually, I find that when it comes down to it...Milo knows his SF. So,
technically, your statement is false, Ultima.
Sorry. You're supposed to stab AT the target, not under it's armpit! :)
We still coo' though, right Ulty? :)
Onaje Everett
o_ev...@hotmail.com
"I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me."
-Philippians 4:13
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Ultima
[snip]
> > Sorry Milo. It was too good an opportunity to pass up. ^_^
>
> (Linn Kurosawa mode on)
>
> MY TURN!
>
> (Linn mode off)
I thought that was Omega Red? :p
AvP - Now there's a game I'd like to see for home version. I hope Capcom
makes a side scolling beat'em up collection for DC, where they can chuck
in AvP, D n' D (4 player version) and any other of their FF clones and
do them full justice.
> Actually, I find that when it comes down to it...Milo knows his SF. So, technically, your statement is false, Ultima.
Hey, I *know* this. It's just the way Milo wrote it, he set himself up
to be taken down. I meant it as a jest. That's why I had the smiley face
afterwards. You did see it didn't you? :p
> Sorry. You're supposed to stab AT the target, not under it's armpit! :)
Uhm...
> We still coo' though, right Ulty? :)
I hope so ^_^
JB Gainz
>Milo wrote:
>> A lot of my posts may be brazenly rude, but I'm generally very objective
>(i.e. I back myself up with factual analyses, not subjective "x is my
>favorite but not the best" opinions), and that makes them interesting
>reading. If, on the other hand, I wrote nothing but "x is my favorite but
>not the best" articles, I doubt that anyone would care much, if at all.
>
>But no one cares about what you say, regardless...
>
>;)
>
>Sorry Milo. It was too good an opportunity to pass up.
Boy, Ultima. You are a real Bastard. Guess what.. no one gives a damn what
you say, because everyone knows how much of an ass hole you are...
There is no point in responding to this post of mine, because anything you say,
I will skip over... but I will count you'll respond, cause you have nothing
better to do than post flames ... you sorry bastard.
And Milo.. keep posting your views. And ignore bastards like Ultima.
JB GAINZ
JB Gainz
>You're got so much quoting it's
>down right ridiculous.
>
Your are so right. Sorry to quote you. It has gone so far as for people to
misquote others, because of so much quoting. One guy quoted like 4 different
people's posts then tagged my name on all of them. I suppose he was too lazy
to list the others. Either way, I ended up being severely misquoted.
JB GAINZ
Ultima
[snip]
> Boy, Ultima. You are a real Bastard.
Sometimes, yes. ^_^
> Guess what.. no one gives a damn what you say, because everyone knows how much of an ass hole you are...
Only to little useless shit-snakes who deserve to get roasted. You won't
hear anyone else complaining (about the asshole part anyway).
> There is no point in responding to this post of mine, because anything you say, I will skip over... but I will count you'll respond, cause you have nothing better to do than post flames ... you sorry bastard.
> And Milo.. keep posting your views. And ignore bastards like Ultima.
??? Did I step into an alternate universe alt.games.sf2? Last time I
checked, it was Milo who used to get these kind of comments and anyone
else who used to be encourage to post! WTF happened? :p
Seriously. If you're complaining about your supposedly being mistaken
for the other troll, go back and check that I never pointed to YOU
specifically. I merely responded to a troll who needed to burned. I
never mentioned the name "JB GAINZ". So get your off your high horse and
kindly fuck off you little punk, lest I find a REAL reason to torch you.
Onaje Everett
Ultima <jas...@rit.edu> wrote:
(post snipped)
Ultima.....lemme give you a little help in this situation....like I tried to
do (with you and everybody) in an earlier post.
Every heard that Kenny Rogers song?
You have to know when to hold 'em....know when to fold 'em...
Fold, bruh. Trust me.
Bottom line: ('cause it's obvious that if a troll isn't fed by arguments, it
will surely die.)
kayin/ka khiong kwok
Onaje Everett (FreshOJ) wrote in message
<7bp239$u6c$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>Every heard that Kenny Rogers song?
>
>You have to know when to hold 'em....know when to fold 'em...
You know, I still can't remember, but did that song refer to girls or cards,
or both? :')
Cheers,
Ka.
=== Separated at birth?... ===
Necro and Michael Jackson.
(Apologies to Necro fans) ^_-
Milo D. Cooper
>> Onaje Everett (FreshOJ) wrote in message
>>
>>
>> You have to know when to hold 'em....know when to fold 'em...
>
> You know, I still can't remember, but did that song refer to girls or cards,
> or both? :')
Neither, it referred to yer DICK
--
/|__Milo D. Cooper_____________________________EverQuest character modeler__|\
\| http://www.milos-chalkboard.net/ http://www.station.sony.com/everquest/ |/
kayin/ka khiong kwok
Milo D. Cooper wrote in message <36E20B7A...@milos-chalkboard.net>...
> Neither, it referred to yer DICK
Oh that's just plain crude. :')
Cheers,
Ka.
======
When the flesh is weak, the mind is empty and your spirit wanes, you can
always count on God to be in the corner with a bottle of Gatorade, a towel
and a pep talk.