Guile's Sonic Boom & Razorkick
tw...@isuvax.iastate.edu
TCE that the Computer can throw a sonic boom and be charge for the kick
and Snipe you outta the air before you can get over the sonic boom
i was wondering if this a move only the computer can do i.e the Standing
Razor Kick. If there is a way to throw a sonic boom and within that same
second be charge to kick the person that has just attempted to jump over it.
I try this all the time and i always seem to miss it. Is executing this
manuever possible? Or am i just not doing it right? If you can perform
the Sonic Boom Razorkick combo please give me some tips.
Thanks in advance.
Jason Gregory
Alexandre Ramos
Gregory D. Lawrence
Computer players can do any move instantaneously, they never have
to hold back for 2 seconds or even do the movement for moves like
the dragon punch. I've been dragon punched out of a hurricane
kick (that's really impossible because you must start standing up).
And I'm not talking about from the side.
--
_________________________________________________
[ | | ]
-=# cb...@cleveland.freenet.edu | [Greg] | /\/\odem #=-
[_____________________________|________|__________]
This Space for Rent
>Computer players can do any move instantaneously, they never have
>to hold back for 2 seconds or even do the movement for moves like
>the dragon punch. I've been dragon punched out of a hurricane
>kick (that's really impossible because you must start standing up).
>And I'm not talking about from the side.
I can dragon punch a hurricane kick too--- yep, the one which is whirling
over your head as you're trapped in the corner. And as far as I know,
I'm not a computer. You don't have to be just getting up, you just have
to do it quickly.
And easier way to DP the hurricane kick is to block it and then DP.
--
Eu-Ming Lee (aka CyberGeek) el2...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
"Nobody told me there'd be .sigs like these."
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-&{&gp% +/)@ooooooo
NO CARRIER
darlene an 92sep02 lawry
>Only the computer can do it. That's what we call a cheat move.
>
Funny, but it's been my experience that a human player can do anything the
computer can do, provided you're good/lucky enough. (ie timing must be
perfect, which is something the computer rarely fails on...)
Jesse Guest
hmm... i DP people out of hurricane kicks all the time... what r u
talking about 'u have 2 start from standing up'??!?!? bs! just throw out
a jab and do the dp motion.. i.e. do a jab/jab DP combo.. the first jab
don't hit but it allows u 2 do the sheng long right into the hurricane
kickers' nostrils, no prob.
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Tim Morris
>Funny, but it's been my experience that a human player can do anything the
>computer can do, provided you're good/lucky enough. (ie timing must be
>perfect, which is something the computer rarely fails on...)
Really? How about walking backwards when there's a fireball on the
screen, or walking backwards without blocking.
--
Tim Morris
Alexandre Ramos
But the worst I've seen is guile's Sonic boom - walk forward - razor kick combo.
--
Alex Ramos
darlene an 92sep02 lawry
Walking backwards w/ fireball: only thing I saw close to that, computer OR
human, was when 2 kens were right next to each other when they threw. But
even then I'm not sure what exactly I saw. Jumping backwards, however, is
another matter, of course...but obviously it's not "in my experience" if
I haven't seen the computer do it.
Backwards w/o blocking: uh, well, to my knowledge that's the direction you'll
go unless there's an attack of some sort being thrown your way...
Chi Hang Tam
forward and do a razor kick.
--
------
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
| Chi Hang Tam | henr...@dg.com |
| call me Henry... | chi_ha...@dg.com |
| | "What a beautiful day!" |
| | |
| //|\\ |
------------------------UUU-----O O-----UUU----------------------------
U
\_/
Tim Morris
>>>computer can do, provided you're good/lucky enough.
>>screen, or walking backwards without blocking.
>Backwards w/o blocking: uh, well, to my knowledge that's the direction you'll
>go unless there's an attack of some sort being thrown your way...
Exactly. How many times have I seen people sock it into computer M. Bison
while he was walking backwards? And I mean he starts retreating and you
go running after him, jump in and kick him in the head. He takes the hit
and keeps retreating!
And how about Guile's sonic boom, walk _forwards_, then standing razor kick?
--
Tim Morris
darlene an 92sep02 lawry
Tim:
Ok, computer Bison is walking backwards, you're walking fowards. This is perfectly possible against a human player. You jump at him, he's still going backwards. Also, perfectly possible. You hit him in the head...you do not say he's in motion *as* he takes the hit, and even if you did, I'd have to say you were unobservant, as the computer has to pause momentarily to show you it's neat hit sequence. So, perfectly possible there. Then you say, after taking the hit, he keeps retreating. Well, your atta
ck was over, hence normal play resumes (ie he can go fowards, backwards, jump, or whatever he pleases). I see nothing there that a human can't and hasn't done before.
Second case. Guile does a sonic boom and walks forwards. Human players can do this too...it's the opposing player *to* the sonic boom that cannot walk backwards. He can jump however he pleases, or walk forward, however. This is especially simple with Guile, too, as he has a very quick release time, where as Ken and Ryu have to pause longer for the sequence. As for the standing razor kick following, it's probably performing the sequence quickly, and perfectly timed that you don't "see" him stop and cro
uch. LIke I said, the computer can have perfect timing, thus creating moves that are seemingly impossible. But then, you're playing the game, and somehow, through some *freak* chance, you duplicate the move.
So, I still maintain my original argument. The computer can't do magic, it just may do things that you're unable to duplicate, but doesn't mean they're impossible. If you're good/lucky enough, it can happen.
Jesse Guest
> In article <1992Sep13.1...@engr.latech.edu> ra...@engr.latech.edu (Al
> >Only the computer can do it. That's what we call a cheat move.
> >
>
> Funny, but it's been my experience that a human player can do anything the
> computer can do, provided you're good/lucky enough. (ie timing must be
> perfect, which is something the computer rarely fails on...)
i think this is wrong... guile charges (computer) for the razorkick in
less then 1 second. it takes 2 seconds 2 do it. look at classic as
well, guile actually does a WALKING blade kick (actually he did it 2 me
on CE) not standing, but WALKING!!!
Chi Hang Tam
Can you do it then?
Scott D Bradburn
[abridged]
|>
|> Second case. Guile does a sonic boom and walks forwards. Human players can
do this too...it's the opposing player *to* the sonic boom that cannot walk
backwards. He can jump however he pleases, or walk forward, however. This is
especially simple with |> Guile, too, as he has a very quick release time,
where as Ken and Ryu have to pause longer for the sequence. As for the standing
razor kick following, it's probably performing the sequence quickly, and
perfectly timed that you don't "see" him stop a
|>
My comments: Well, YES the computer will walk backward while a missile is
approaching him, when he SHOULD have to defend. (Definitely a cheat) And
additionally, you can't sonic boom, walk forward, then razor kick. Why?
After you sonic boom, you have no charge. Fire a charge move, and you
automatically lose all charge in any direction. And guile's razor must be
charged downwards for approximately 2 seconds. But he hasn't had two seconds
since the sonic boom, nor was he charging, therefore this is another cheat.
More cheats, Vega will stun you, walk forward across the whole screen and
then foward roll into you for three hits. IMPOSSIBLE: The forward roll
must charge by pulling backwards, and he didn't walk up next to me, charge,
then roll.
One more, just for grins, similar to Vega, Blanka will walk forward, an opponent
will throw an attack and miss, and blanka suddenly balls and hits them before
they recover from the attack. Also not possible for the same reason that Vega
can't do his move.
|> uch. LIke I said, the computer can have perfect timing, thus creating
moves that are seemingly impossible. But then, you're playing the game, and
somehow, through some *freak* chance, you duplicate the move.
|>
|> So, I still maintain my original argument. The computer can't do magic,
it just may do things that you're unable to duplicate, but doesn't mean they're
impossible. If you're good/lucky enough, it can happen.
I disagree, the computer definitely does not charge in many instances.
Scott
Alex Ramos
>So, I still maintain my original argument. The computer can't do magic, it just may
>do things that you're unable to duplicate, but doesn't mean they're impossible. If
>you're good/lucky enough, it can happen.
You are probably not a Computer Science type of person (can you do much more than
e-mail and newsreader??, not to offend and actually quite common among CS freshmen).
I'll explain:
True that the computer can't do magic, you got that right. But doing
a forward-walking razor kick has nothing to do with magic. It is just
a set of instructions in the program - guile will execute a razor quick
whenever his algorithm feels like it (notice figurative language to facilitate
interpretation by naive user).
Yes - the computer DOES do things you're unable to duplicate, and it *DOES* mean
they are impossible, unless you have a different definition for 'impossible'.
If you're good/lucky enough, you can do the moves the computer does on inter-
mediate levels. But those are not cheat moves!
If you still think you can do everything the computer does, then I am sure you
have never tried duplicating it, or, the place where you play has the diffi-
culty level set very low, reason why you don't know what being cheated by the com-
puter really looks like.
I am not by any means trying to find an excuse for getting beaten by a last-level
Guile or Blanka. All the cheat moves can be easily countered, which is really the
only challenge in the game after you've learned how to play decently.
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is undistinguishable from magic"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Alex Ramos | fala-se portugues, tche!
ra...@engr.latech.edu | Electrical Engineering | se habla espanol
| LA Tech Univ. | english spoken here
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Wang
>Funny, but it's been my experience that a human player can do anything the
>computer can do, provided you're good/lucky enough. (ie timing must be
>perfect, which is something the computer rarely fails on...)
Sorry, this isn't true unless you can explain to all of us how to do
Chun Li's rapid fire jab, or Guile's double sonic boom (two sonic booms
in the air at the same time).
--
Michael Wang
mmw...@mv.us.adobe.com
darlene an 92sep02 lawry
>In article a82...@lynx.unm.edu, dpha...@triton.unm.edu (darlene an 92sep02 lawry) writes:
>>So, I still maintain my original argument. The computer can't do magic, it just may
>>do things that you're unable to duplicate, but doesn't mean they're impossible. If
>>you're good/lucky enough, it can happen.
>
>You are probably not a Computer Science type of person (can you do much more than
>e-mail and newsreader??, not to offend and actually quite common among CS freshmen).
GROWL. For your information, I AM a CS major. I've had a computer since 1977,
I program, I repair, and I fiddle with them in general. I'm not a freshmen.
So please, don't make assumptions that are unfounded, it annoys me.
>I'll explain:
>
>True that the computer can't do magic, you got that right. But doing
>a forward-walking razor kick has nothing to do with magic. It is just
>a set of instructions in the program - guile will execute a razor quick
>whenever his algorithm feels like it (notice figurative language to facilitate
>interpretation by naive user).
Alrighty...it is *possible* (and easier, depending on how you do it) to program
the computer to perform algorithms whenever it feels like it. But just as it
applies certain rules of execution to you, it can incorporate it into it's
programming as well. And if you think I was serious when I used the term
"magic", then you obviously either 1) have a bias in your mind that I'm a
complete, utter moron (which, from the assumptions you made, I wouldn't rule
it out), or 2) you don't have a good grasp of analogies or slang. Maybe if
I had put it in quotes, you would've undedrstood me better, but I really didn't
think it was necessary.
>
>Yes - the computer DOES do things you're unable to duplicate, and it *DOES* mean
>they are impossible, unless you have a different definition for 'impossible'.
No, but you didn't read my sentence carefully. I said "you". Yes, you,
specifically. not "one", not "somebody", not "anybody". Just because you've
never done it, doesnt mean it's never happened.
>If you're good/lucky enough, you can do the moves the computer does on inter-
>mediate levels. But those are not cheat moves!
>
>If you still think you can do everything the computer does, then I am sure you
>have never tried duplicating it, or, the place where you play has the diffi-
>culty level set very low, reason why you don't know what being cheated by the com-
>puter really looks like.
If the computer is set very low, it is very easy to see that the moves aren't
impossible. And I've tried duplicating to some extent, but I play Chun Li,
and doing moves like fire balls, DP's, and razor kicks are hard for me to do
one after the other, much less duplicate intentionally hard to time moves
such as those. Doesn't mean I've never seen it done, and that I've never done
one by accident. And will you quit telling me "I'm sure you're never..."?
You don't know what I have/haven't done, seen/haven't seen, and can/cannot do.
If you don't believe me, call me a liar. I won't care.
>
>I am not by any means trying to find an excuse for getting beaten by a last-level
>Guile or Blanka. All the cheat moves can be easily countered, which is really the
>only challenge in the game after you've learned how to play decently.
>
That's funny, I don't recall ever saying you were trying to justify getting
beaten. But I AM saying that the majority of your arguing seems to be based
on unfounded conclusions. You might as well just say, "I'm right because
I've said so, and you haven't seen anything otherwise."
>
>"Any sufficiently advanced technology is undistinguishable from magic"
*SIGH* > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > | Alex Ramos | fala-se portugues, tche!
darlene an 92sep02 lawry
sigh, sigh, sigh. TIMING, that's how you do rapid fire jabs, TIMING. And guess
what? I'm willing to bet that you won't find a human player with as good of
timing as a computer consistantly ever! Why? Because the computer *knows
instantly* when the last move was completed, and therefore when to execute the
next (which, in the case of Chun Li's jabs and Kens short kicks, is an
extremely short time), and can execute it faster then you can physically hit
the buttons for more then, say, a couple, maybe 3 jabs. Dont' time it perfectly, and you have an excess pause in there, which will keep it from perforing the
next jab until you've hit the *next* one.
Guile's double sonic boom: human Guile players can do it, just as they can
do a double-hit DP. Not that difficult. Just ask other players if they've
done it.
This Space for Rent
When you get to the toughest Zangief, walk towards him with Ryu or Ken.
Zangief will walk backwards FASTER than Ken/Ryu. This works with Guile
instead of Zangief, also.
Now play Zangief or Guile. Can you walk backwards faster than Ken/Ryu?
No. Does the computer perform all normal moves faster than humans? Yes.
Walking, jabbing, etc. are all faster. I'm surprised they didn't put
in faster fireballs and sonic booms as well. It'd make it more challenging
at least.
Alex Ramos
> Alrighty...it is *possible* (and easier, depending on how you do it) to program
> the computer to perform algorithms whenever it feels like it. But just as it
> applies certain rules of execution to you, it can incorporate it into it's
> programming as well.
Even if the program is written as such, cheat moves are still present. For exam-
ple, there is a physical limit on the frequency with which you can tap any button.
The character-controlling routines are obviously not subject to such limits.
I will not try to guess how the program was written, since the only information
I have is that it does perform cheat moves. If you ever come up with the sequence
to execute a Walking Razor Kick, then I'll admit being totally wrong.
**** DISCLAIMER: Only the lines above are of general interest to alt.games.sf2. ****
**** The lines below are intended to the original poster. ****
> And if you think I was serious when I used the term
> "magic", then you obviously either 1) have a bias in your mind that I'm a
> complete, utter moron (which, from the assumptions you made, I wouldn't rule
> it out), or
Yes, I thought you were serious, and (1) above is (was) correct. I can see howe-
ver, by your last posting, you are not so computer-iliterate as I thought. I apologize.
> 2) you don't have a good grasp of analogies or slang. Maybe if
> I had put it in quotes, you would've undedrstood me better, but I really didn't
> think it was necessary.
Do not question my English proficiency, and I will not add the fact that you
are a female. Agreed?
Quotes wouldn't have made any considerable difference. Go ask an English teacher.
Quote applies:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Alex Ramos | fala-se portugues, tche!
ra...@engr.latech.edu | Electrical Engineering | se habla espanol
| LA Tech Univ. | english spoken here
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
... at least, it doesn't matter what you say! The Cure
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
darlene an 92sep02 lawry
>> "magic", then you obviously either 1) have a bias in your mind that I'm a
>> complete, utter moron (which, from the assumptions you made, I wouldn't rule
>> it out), or
>
> Yes, I thought you were serious, and (1) above is (was) correct. I can see howe-
>ver, by your last posting, you are not so computer-iliterate as I thought. I apologize.
>
>> 2) you don't have a good grasp of analogies or slang. Maybe if
>> I had put it in quotes, you would've undedrstood me better, but I really didn't
>> think it was necessary.
>
> Do not question my English proficiency, and I will not add the fact that you
>are a female. Agreed?
> Quotes wouldn't have made any considerable difference. Go ask an English teacher.
>
was one of two things...you already admitted it was the first, so by my own
definition, it isn't the second (that's why I used "or"). Quotes may have
not been necessary from an English point of view, but it sometimes makes
intention clearer. So, if it wouldn't have helped you, then that's your
problem, not mine.
So, I was not questioning your English proficiency; but, since you've mentioned
"adding the fact that I'm female," I now think I understand your line of
thinking a little better now...and I find it sickening. With such built in
bias, debating any further is pointless.
Robin Chen
I have done the sonic-boom/razor kick by accident before, and I have seen
people doing this on purpose also.. Although I haven't figured out how
this is done, but I am sure that human players can do this also. Not only
the sonic-boom/razor kick can be performed, but also the double sonic boom.
I've done this before also.. The double sonic boom came out when I trapped
the opponent at the corner, and I tried to do fierce after a sonic boom hit.
Double sonic boom came out instead.. I'll explain the sonicboom/razor kick
at a later time.. Gotta go
AstralWolf
This one goes out to the naive Mr. Magic is possible. How long have you
been playing SF2? If you can't play ANY of the characters with missile
weapons at least fairly well you havn't been playing very long! It is
general consensus that all TRUE sf2 players will play more than one
character, and get fairly good at them. Now then to address the issue you
brought up (Maybe you didn't, but you made several incorrect statements)
First have you EVER seen a HUMAN player EVER do a sonic boom then follow
it and razor kick when the other person jumps over? No I don't think so and
let me try to explain why. When you boom you lose all charge (CHARGE in even
CE takes 1.5 seconds with GUile) Now you walk forward so there is NO
possible way to charge down (THIS is the ONLY way to charge the razor kick
in either striaght down or one of the defensive or offensive crouches) IF
you do hold the joystick in one of these directions, YOU WILL CROUCH and not
walk forward! Now someone jumps over the boom. YOU DO NOT HAVE 1.5 seconds
to charge the razor kick! There is no POSSIBLE way for a human to do is
disregarding some glitch in the machine (not programmed in, but one of those
bizzare things that electronic devices tend to do every once in a while)
Yet the COMPUTER guile IS able to execute this move.
I am not trying to flame you, but you are making statements about a game,
and IMHO I don't think you have played it long enough to be able to make
such statements. The best way for you to find this out is go to the arcade
and try some of the MAGIC moves listed here, and you will find that a human
player can't execute them. And being a CS major you should know that
a player algorithm and computer algorithm are usually different. The computer
is not restricted in some of the ways that the human is. SInce SF2 has no AI
in fighting, the programmers had to make it able to do some things that
no player could ever do so that the game wouldn't be a pushover. These magic
moves by the computer are what makes it a challenge to beat the pattern prone
computer. You have made statements challenging players who are at least
near masters of their characters (there are bound to be a few here on the net,
as opposed to the typical kid who says I-am-the-greatest-street-fighter-to-ever
walk-on-this-planet-and-my-mere-presence-is-enough-to-cause-all-the-players-at-
my-local-arcade-to-flee-the-machine-in-panic-because-i-am-god-of-all-the-
characters) But I digress. These players have played the characters a LONG
time, and had the move been possible they would have at least SEEN it done
before. So don't make judgements til you have actually tried it.
-- Jim
--
/| / / | / / /-/ Can be reached on the
/ | /--/ --- |/-/ /-\| | | ^ / /-\ | |/ Astral Planes known as:
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/ | \--/ / / \--/| / |/ |/ \-/ / / jvl4...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Crying Freeman
> First have you EVER seen a HUMAN player EVER do a sonic boom then follow
>it and razor kick when the other person jumps over? No I don't think so and
>let me try to explain why. When you boom you lose all charge (CHARGE in even
>CE takes 1.5 seconds with GUile) Now you walk forward so there is NO
>possible way to charge down (THIS is the ONLY way to charge the razor kick
>in either striaght down or one of the defensive or offensive crouches) IF
>you do hold the joystick in one of these directions, YOU WILL CROUCH and not
>walk forward! Now someone jumps over the boom. YOU DO NOT HAVE 1.5 seconds
>to charge the razor kick! There is no POSSIBLE way for a human to do is
>disregarding some glitch in the machine (not programmed in, but one of those
>bizzare things that electronic devices tend to do every once in a while)
>Yet the COMPUTER guile IS able to execute this move.
Hey dude.
Yes I HAVE done this before... Only on the classic SF2 however.
If you remember, in the old SF2, there were often "bug" moves.
You know, your sitting there tapping jab, and hey a razor kick, sonic
boom, blanka ball, whatever just pops out for no reason. After these
"bugs" you don't lose your charge. Then if someone jumps over your
sonic boom, you actually CAN razor kick. I'm positive about this cause
I just did it two days ago.
> -- Jim
-- Yuan
>--
> /| / / | / / /-/ Can be reached on the
> / | /--/ --- |/-/ /-\| | | ^ / /-\ | |/ Astral Planes known as:
> /--| \-\ | | | | | | /| / | | | | lov...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
>/ | \--/ / / \--/| / |/ |/ \-/ / / jvl4...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
--
Kenneth C. Wang | University Of Illinois Champaign-Urbana
| Internet: c-w...@uiuc.edu
| AKA Che-Yuan Wang
Jesse Guest
same goes for bison... ever been playing computer bison and he walks
FORWARD and instantly does a flaming torpedo as he's walking towards you?
that's 100% impossible for a human to do, because you have to charge
backwards for 2 seconds.. well, the computer sucks hard becuz it cheats
and has mor than just an 'unfair' advantage.
DEATH TO THE COMPUTER!
AstralWolf
>lov...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (AstralWolf) writes:
>
>
>> First have you EVER seen a HUMAN player EVER do a sonic boom then follow
>>it and razor kick when the other person jumps over? No I don't think so and
>>let me try to explain why. When you boom you lose all charge (CHARGE in even
>>CE takes 1.5 seconds with GUile) Now you walk forward so there is NO
>>possible way to charge down (THIS is the ONLY way to charge the razor kick
>>in either striaght down or one of the defensive or offensive crouches) IF
>>you do hold the joystick in one of these directions, YOU WILL CROUCH and not
>>walk forward! Now someone jumps over the boom. YOU DO NOT HAVE 1.5 seconds
>>to charge the razor kick! There is no POSSIBLE way for a human to do is
>>disregarding some glitch in the machine (not programmed in, but one of those
>>bizzare things that electronic devices tend to do every once in a while)
>>Yet the COMPUTER guile IS able to execute this move.
>
> Hey dude.
>
> Yes I HAVE done this before... Only on the classic SF2 however.
> If you remember, in the old SF2, there were often "bug" moves.
> You know, your sitting there tapping jab, and hey a razor kick, sonic
> boom, blanka ball, whatever just pops out for no reason. After these
> "bugs" you don't lose your charge. Then if someone jumps over your
> sonic boom, you actually CAN razor kick. I'm positive about this cause
> I just did it two days ago.
>
Funny, I thought I already said something about the bugs in SF2?
You know that little thing in parenthesis up there... Hehe. Yeah I know
classic is strange sometimes...especially at the local hmmm I wonder if
there are fewer than 5 things wrongs with the controllers today arcade.
Oh well, back to work...
Crying Freeman
> Funny, I thought I already said something about the bugs in SF2?
>You know that little thing in parenthesis up there... Hehe. Yeah I know
>classic is strange sometimes...especially at the local hmmm I wonder if
>there are fewer than 5 things wrongs with the controllers today arcade.
>Oh well, back to work...
Oops.. Yup... I misread your post... duh.
>--
> /| / / | / / /-/ Can be reached on the
> / | /--/ --- |/-/ /-\| | | ^ / /-\ | |/ Astral Planes known as:
> /--| \-\ | | | | | | /| / | | | | lov...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
>/ | \--/ / / \--/| / |/ |/ \-/ / / jvl4...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu