V3 3000 to Kyro II
Ken Phipps
(Hercules 3D Prophet 4500). I've read some stuff about this card and
how it renders to converse memory bandwith and so forth. It looks like
this balances out its relatively slower hardware. Does anyone know if
this card works well with older games (Quake I and Quake II)?
Basically what I want to know is would it actually perform worse than
a V3 on games it may not be designed to run optimally? I still love Q2
Deathmatch so I'd hate to take a performance hit there.
I was going for a GeForce2 setup, but my mobo has the VIA KT-133
chipset and I keep seeing how people have tons of problems with it
and the nVidia cards, so now I figure I'll get either a Kyro II or
Radeon DDR 64, and right now I'm leaning towards the Kyro.
MuuMiMan
<kphi...@my-deja.com> was running around screaming something about
"V3 3000 to Kyro II". Before the men in white coats arrived and took
him away, he managed to say the following:
I personally would go for the Radeon DDR 64. Not as fast as a GTS(but
doesn't loose by much), but good picture quality and a very good
overall video card for a good price. The Kyro 2, while faster than the
GTS in some situations, performs quite poorly in others. I suggest you
read Anandtechs review of the Kyro 2 before making your decision about
which card to purchase.
--
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Official supporter of Vasudan Grand Admiral Bob:
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Da Wrecka
news:rs2dhtk0m1svmh011...@4ax.com...
> I'm thinkng of upgrading from my Voodoo3 to a Kyro II-based card
> (Hercules 3D Prophet 4500). I've read some stuff about this card and
> how it renders to converse memory bandwith and so forth. It looks like
> this balances out its relatively slower hardware. Does anyone know if
> this card works well with older games (Quake I and Quake II)?
> Basically what I want to know is would it actually perform worse than
> a V3 on games it may not be designed to run optimally? I still love Q2
> Deathmatch so I'd hate to take a performance hit there.
As it happens, I've just completed a series of benchmark tests using my Videologic
32MB Vivid!XS card, which is a cheaper version of the Hercules card. Here's the
results I obtained:
Resolution Mean framerate
640x480x32bpp 49.36fps
800x600x16bpp 50.9fps
800x600x32bpp 48.6fps
1024x768x16bpp 49.8fps
1024x768x32bpp 47.8fps
What I did was run 3Fingers' Crusher benchmark 7 times through on each
resolution/bitdepth. At this point all of the default settings were in place, bar
VSync which I disabled in the drivers. I ignored the first two results and took the
mean of the last 5 results, hence "mean framerate". The fact that going from
640x480x32bpp to 1024x768x32bpp inflicts only a 1.5fps hit is very impressive.
It's worth noting that 640x480 looked a little weird on my monitor, but given the
fast performance even in 800x600 and 1024x768, and that neither of these resolutions
had the same problem, I don't think I'm that bothered. Since Quake 2 is not
particularly texture-heavy, the 64MB Hercules is unlikely to yield a significantly
increased framerate in Quake 2 at least, but other games may yield better performance
with the Hercules than the Vivid!XS card. I haven't tested Unreal Tournament yet, but
that's not particularly relevant here anyway.
Now for the system specs:
AMD Duron 800MHz
224MB SDR memory (running at a memory speed of 100MHz)
Jetway motherboard with Via KT133 chipset (with latest 4-in-1s)
32MB Videologic Vivid!XS Kyro II AGP graphics (latest drivers downloaded from
Videologic website)
Quantum Fireball 6.4AT ATA33 hard disk
SoundBlaster 128 PCI sound card
It's also worth noting that the drivers that come on the CD with the Vivid!XS are
utter shite. I couldn't get D3D to work even in the puny D3D test that's part of
DXDiag. However, the up-to-date drivers from the Videologic website worked fine.
I can't provide any information on the Radeons, but no doubt somebody else can.
--
From Da Wrecka
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Margolis
p3-800EB
256mb crucial pc 133 cl2
voodoo5 5500
sblive! xgamer
intel etherexpress pro 100+
win98SE
Crusher demo
640x480x32 73.0fps
640x480x16 73.0fps
800x600x32 73.0fps
800x600x16 73.0fps
1024x768x32 71.6fps
1024x768x16 71.8fps
same system, except:
asus p3b-f
p3-600E
Crusher demo
1024x768x16 64.6fps
Not bad for a $100 video card ;o)
Margolis
"Da Wrecka"
Wayne Nolan
I have just moved from V3 3000 to Hercules Kyro II 4500, I have
downloaded the latest drivers for both W2k and Win98, both of which do
not solve my problem.
Problem:
Running games like Quake,Duesx and delta Force land warrior only games
tested at the moment, displays graphical glitches i.e bitmaps flying
all over the place. I was wondering If any body else is having the
same problem trying to run the latest and not so games.
Tried the help desk, Have you updated the drivers duh.
I read so much on how good this card is and yet what have they tested
it on, hopefully not just on bench mark tests.
System setup:
Abit KT7A 133-266MHz FSB
Athlon 1.2 Ghz
512 Mb SDRam
IBM deskstar 30Gb
CDrom
SB Soundcard
Win98 (tried W2k same effect)
Any Tips would be appreciated.
Regards
Wayne
Margolis
convince me that the card is not turning out to be as good as initial
reviews have said. I am getting a sneaking suspicion that maybe it was
tweaked for the benchmarks used by reviewers, ie. q3, and UT (like video
card makers were busted for once before). It turns out it is very slow in
some games, unplayable in tribes2. It has graphical glitches in several
games, possibly due to it extensive use of hsr, remove 1 wrong thing and
boom, instant glitch. Plus it runs faster on faster computers, something you
don't need to worry about though ;o)
I may get flamed here, but I would recommend spending a little more money on
a geforce2 pro, and get a card that performs well across the board. If that
is possible, and you are willing, of course.
There was a post a couple of weeks ago that posted results with a duron 800,
224mb ram, and kyro2. My old p3-600, 256mb, tnt2 was 20-25% faster in
quake2.
My p3-800 with voodoo5 was 65% faster. Quake 2 ctf is still one of my
favorite games, and that is unacceptable performance in my opinion.
If you have the crusher demo, run it and post your results. I am interested
in seeing peoples results for more info. Massive1 is another good demo,
slightly easier on the system. You can get them here:
http://www.voodooextreme.com/3fingers/
Just click on the benchmarking link, then go down to quake2, and you will
see both crusher and massive1.
Here are some results, all crusher demo;
duron-800, 224mb, kyro2
800x600x16bpp 50.9fps
1024x768x16bpp 49.8fps
p3-600E, 256mb, tnt2ultra
640x480x16 64.2
800x600x16 63.3
1024x768x16 57.2
asus p3v4x, p3-800EB, 256mb crucial pc 133 cl2, voodoo5 5500, sblive!
xgamer, intel etherexpress pro100+, win98SE
Crusher demo
640x480x16 73.0fps
800x600x16 73.0fps
1024x768x16 71.8fps
Another posters results:
P3-800/GeForce2:
640x480x16 83fps
800x600x16 83fps
1024x768x16 83fps
That geforce2 John has sure is nice ;o)
Margolis
"Wayne Nolan" <wa...@nolanw.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:99c4b9b8.0107...@posting.google.com...
Simon F
> I have just moved from V3 3000 to Hercules Kyro II 4500, I have
> downloaded the latest drivers for both W2k and Win98, both of which do
> not solve my problem.
>
> Problem:
>
> Running games like Quake,Duesx and delta Force land warrior only games
> tested at the moment, displays graphical glitches i.e bitmaps flying
> all over the place. I was wondering If any body else is having the
> same problem trying to run the latest and not so games.
<SNIP>
> System setup:
>
> Abit KT7A 133-266MHz FSB
> Athlon 1.2 Ghz
> 512 Mb SDRam
> IBM deskstar 30Gb
> CDrom
> SB Soundcard
> Win98 (tried W2k same effect)
>
> Any Tips would be appreciated.
Wayne,
Theres an 'unofficial' Kyro FAQ at
http://www.paraknowya.com/specials/faq/index.shtml
or
http://pvr.gamestats.com/faq/faq.shtml
which may be of help. Certainly with your system the Kyro2 should go
like the proverbial off a hot shovel.
Also, from what I've read on a few of the powerVR forums, some cards
may leave old driver rubbish lying around which can be detrimental.
Another suggestion is that the MOBO's AGP driver may need updating.
(IIRC the V3 didn't use AGP functionality so it probably wouldn't have
noticed).
Simon
MDScholl , CMGagnon
> I have just moved from V3 3000 to Hercules Kyro II 4500 . . .
> Running games like Quake . . .displays graphical glitches i.e bitmaps flying
> all over the place.
> Abit KT7A 133-266MHz FSB, Athlon 1.2 Ghz, Win98 (tried W2k same effect)
> Wayne
Wayne,
I have the same graphics card, motherboard, and processor
running Win98SE with no problems. It cooks in Quake2 and I
get 131.6 fps in default opengl, 1024x768 resolution,
demo1.dm2. When you get it going, I think you will be very
pleased.
Some things you can try (if you haven't already).
(1) Are you pushing the maximum capability of your monitor?
Running at too high resolutions and refresh rates and
create visual anomalies. I find that my monitor does not
perform well unless set up correctly.
(2) Latest Hercules drivers are here:
http://us.hercules.com/support/driver_view.php3?id=185
http://us.hercules.com/support/driver_view.php3?id=186
(3) Paul Howland's excellent Abit KT7 Faq is here:
http://www.viahardware.com/faq/kt7/kt7faq.htm
(4) Have you loaded the latest (4.32) Via 4in1 AGP driver in
turbo mode? The Kyro 2 runs at AGP x2.
(5) Call tech support several times until you get a good
tech. I found that the main qualification of some of the
French techs is their ability to speak English. It's a free
call, so shop for a good tech. BTW, I did have alot of
trouble with the first card I bought, it apparently had
suffered from heat exposure (happens in North Carolina) and
had warped. It wouldn't sit properly in the AGP slot.
Returned it and the new card is great.
If none of this helps, can you provide a more detailed
description of your problem?
Good luck,
Michael
Margolis
"MDScholl , CMGagnon" <bio...@ntrnet.net> wrote in > I have the same
graphics card, motherboard, and >processor running Win98SE with no
problems. It >cooks in Quake2 and I get 131.6 fps in default opengl,
>1024x768 resolution, demo1.dm2. When you get it >going, I think you will
be very pleased.
>
asus p3v4x
p3-800EB
512mb
voodoo5 5500
demo1.dm2, 1024x768 = 152.6fps
You were saying?
Try some real demos like crusher and massive1, they test your system a bit
more than demo1.
You can get them here:
http://www.voodooextreme.com/3fingers/
Just click on the benchmarking link, then go down to quake2, and you will
see both the crusher and massive1 demos.
Margolis
MDScholl , CMGagnon
>
> "MDScholl , CMGagnon" <bio...@ntrnet.net> wrote in I have the same
> graphics card, motherboard, and processor running Win98SE with no
> problems. It cooks in Quake2 and I get 131.6 fps in default opengl,
> >1024x768 resolution, demo1.dm2. When you get it going, I think you will
> be very pleased.
>
> demo1.dm2, 1024x768 = 152.6fps
>
> You were saying?
Margolis,
With a graphics card that fast you must have an enormous
penis! <<sarcastic snicker>> I posted my demo results to
help someone with a similar configuration, not to start a
"my card is faster than your card" pissing contest. Using
3dfx opengl rendering the Voodoo5 certainly is faster than
the Hercules Kyro 2. However, the Hercules Kyro 2 makes up
for what Supertech called "raw ugly speed" by having lots of
"eye candy."
Just for giggles, here are my massive and crusher scores:
(1.2 Gig Athlon, Hercules Kyro 2)
Crusher.dm2 @ 1024x768 78.2 fps
Massive1.dm2 @ 1024x768 112.7 fps
While I'm sure that the Voodoo5 will do better (same 64 RAM,
but with tweaked, in-game 3dfx rendering), its more than
fast enough! It's a far cry from my P166 and Voodoo1 which,
if I remember correctly, scored 11 fps in Crusher. It was
like watching a slide show! Sometimes I even saw the guy
who shot me.
Michael
LoneWolf{AGQ2}
wrote:
>asus p3v4x
>p3-800EB
>512mb
>voodoo5 5500
>
>demo1.dm2, 1024x768 = 152.6fps
>
>You were saying?
>
>Try some real demos like crusher and massive1, they test your system a bit
>more than demo1.
P3 1 ghz
Creative labs GeForce 2 GTS
256 133 mb
demo1.dm2 1024x768 225fps
crusher.dm2 1024x768 100 fps
massive1.dm2 1024x768 170fps
Diablo II (with Seti and ZoneAlarm turned off) 90fps
I think the point here is, if someone is happy with their performance,
be it 60fps or 200fps, that's great. If they are not, then we should
try to help aim them in the direction that will assist with gaining
that level of performance that makes them happy.
I don't know much about the Kyro II, but I have seen several people
state they are not happy with their performance and I am certain that
there are ways for them to achieve that. I just wish I knew how too.
LoneWolf{AGQ2}
USS Calypso Offical Website --
http://www.ieway.com/~ckbales/expand.html
My FTP Site --
Margolis
much slower computer, with a video card that is not even considered fast by
any standards can beat the kyro2 in a 1.2ghz machine, on a test that is
video card limited, that means it does not "cook" in my opinion ;o) Just
imagine what a radeon ddr, or geforce2 can do in that system. The hype
about this kyro2 got out of hand, and it just does not live up to the
reputation it got. That is what I am trying to point out. In my opinion, if
you are going to spend the money on a fast t-bird system, don't skimp on the
video card and get a cheap kyro that will hamper its performance. If you are
happy with it, that is fine, that is your choice. I am just trying to inject
some comparitive analysis in. Hoping that somebody will test with a radeon
ddr, or geforce2 or 3 and post those results also.
And the voodoo5's graphics are not ugly, it looks just as good as the kyro2,
better than nvidia. They will stand up with the best of them, including the
kyro2, in fact, it could be considered better because it does not have all
the graphical glitches the kyro2 throws in. The numbers on the 800mhz can't
compete with yours on a real demo like crusher or massive1 because of the
slow cpu,(regardless of which driver is used), that is why I said use those.
But;
asus cusl2
p3-1000
512mb crucial pc-133
voodoo5 5500
DEFAULT OPEN GL (No "tweaked, in-game 3dfx rendering")
crusher - 87.2
massive1 - 132.0
3dfx mini gl
crusher - 92.6
massive1 - 139.2
Hmmm, it does not need the "3dfx opengl rendering" to be faster ;o)
Notice there is not a whole lot of difference in the 2 drivers. One is just
brighter and washed out, and the other has darker, saturated colors, just
like the kyro2.
Margolis
"MDScholl , CMGagnon" <bio...@ntrnet.net> wrote in >> I posted my demo
Margolis
I agree, if you are happy, fine. But if you are not happy with the card,
exchange it for a better card if you can. It seemed apparent in the original
post that he was not happy with it. I was just trying to give negative
encouragement to get rid of it and get a good card, like yours, fast, and no
graphical glitches ;o)
Margolis
"LoneWolf{AGQ2}" <>