The more I play Quake2 the more I appreciate... regular Quake!
-Ed-
Yeah that's right. Let's put all the bullshit aside. Sure Quake2 has a
much improved engine and intricately detailed maps, but is it as
enjoyable as quake/quakeworld? No f*ckin' way.
Now I've played it for a while, and there are some really good features
to it. I _like_ the fact that you can duck (considering that the
whiners cried out against this it's a miracle it made it into the final
release), and the sub-machine gun is great - BFG too.
But, it seems to me that they listened to every whiner that came along
when they were putting Quake2 together. Hell, considering the crap in
some of their "plan's" I'd say that the densest concentration of whiners
are working right at id.
Things I dislike about Quake2 (Doom III actually):
1) Slow-motion takes it's sweet-assed-time weapon switching. Try
cycling through your weapon inventory in the middle of a fight and
you're off to the local morgue.
2) What the hell is that damn hand grenade doing in the middle of the
weapon cycle anyway? - useless as tits on a bull.
3) No rocket jumping. This was _the_ cool unexpected feature in Quake
- in Quake2 it will just turn you into bug juice.
4) Those lame green names. Sure it was done by hacking, but you could
personalize your name in Quake - made you stand out, everybody likes to
feel like an individual. Instead of taking away choice, id should have
made it so players could select different typefaces, styles, and colors.
5) Maps are laid out with an "anti-camper" mentality - result: there
are no good areas for team play - every thing is _too_ exposed. In the
end its just non-stop patternless mayhem, no tactics because tactics
don't count when you can even stop to think about what your goals are.
6) So called "balanced weapons". They're so "balanced" that they're
hardly worth fighting over. Fact is, to compliment this the so called
"high power" weapons are scattered all over the maps.
7) Rockets fly so slow you can almost get out and run as fast.
8) Odd-ball wall angles on corners are like fly-paper to the lagged.
Some jagged hallways you can barely move down without getting hung up on
every other corner. Of course if you're like me and have a low ping
connect, you can learn to spot these lagged players and pick them off as
soon as they come into contact with the walls. Like shooting fish in a
barrel.
9) And whats with this not automaticaly switching to the next best
weapon when you run out of ammo? Ain't it cool to find yourself
face-to-face with someone and press the trigger only to find your out of
ammo for that weapon? It's slo-mo weapon change time! Fun, fun, fun.
Ask yourself one quick question:
If the progs.dat files from quake were compatible with quake2 (if quake2
used one instead of using .dll's), how many people would have copied
their quake progs.dat file into thier quake2 directory by now, hmmm?
Well, one things for sure - we can believe id when they say they and
activision thoroughly tested the point release to be sure that there are
no obvious bugs in the software that would show up right away - CTF too.
-Ed-
Jeff
...and for us sorry asses with an analog connection, play is much more
jerky... they promise 100's of people online at once, I'd be satisfied with
10 people if it was as smooth as Q1
David Pochron
-Ed- <n...@home.now> wrote in article <34f0ff54.44061080@frontXdoor>...
> but is it as
> enjoyable as quake/quakeworld? No f*ckin' way.
Well, you're entitled to your opinion but I totally disagree with you. I
only play Quake now if every Q2 server is full.
> 1) Slow-motion takes it's sweet-assed-time weapon switching. Try
> cycling through your weapon inventory in the middle of a fight and
> you're off to the local morgue.
Annoying, yes, but more realistic. Since everyone has this limitation,
however, all things are still equal. I've fragged many a player while they
were switching weapons so I rather like the slow switch times myself. Learn
to pay attention to your ammo levels and make a quick escape while your
weapon switches.
> 2) What the hell is that damn hand grenade doing in the middle of the
> weapon cycle anyway? - useless as tits on a bull.
Learn to use it - it has the largest blast radius of all the weapons
(grenades from the launcher don't do as much damage, BTW) and can be very
effective. I personally prefer the grenade launcher for flooding an area
with grenades but that's just a playing style thing of mine. There is a bug
in the game DLL where hand grenades get priority if you run over them, but
that's a bug issue and not a design issue.
> 3) No rocket jumping. This was _the_ cool unexpected feature in Quake
> - in Quake2 it will just turn you into bug juice.
Bzzt.. Wrong, but thanks for playing. You need to do some more training. In
fact, not only can you rocket jump (and BFG jump) but you can quad rocket
jump with as little as 50 armor and 100 cells of power armor and still have
plenty of health left. I do it all the time to get to the palace window in
city1.
> 5) Maps are laid out with an "anti-camper" mentality
Huh!?! What maps are you playing? They certainly aren't Q2 maps. There are
numerous camp/snipe points on all the maps (too numerous to mention, in fact)
except for maybe strike.bsp.
> In the
> end its just non-stop patternless mayhem, no tactics because tactics
> don't count when you can even stop to think about what your goals are.
You obviously haven't been reading this newsgroup. The group came a
consensus that the Q2 maps were all more "thinking-man" oriented than the
original Q1 maps were. Until the release of the DM maps this past week,
run-and-shoot was definitely not the best strategy for Quake 2.
> 6) So called "balanced weapons". They're so "balanced" that they're
> hardly worth fighting over.
Your statement was so obtuse I'm not even sure what you're saying here.
Aside from the blaster and normal shotgun, all the other weapons are quite
effective against each other. You just have to know when and how to use
them. A super-shotgun and grenade launcher isn't going to help you if the
enemy is far away, but that's not a game balance issue - that's a tactical
issue. (Oops! But you claimed there are no tactics in Q2 - how silly of
me!)
> 7) Rockets fly so slow you can almost get out and run as fast.
I like the new rocket speed.
> 8) Odd-ball wall angles on corners are like fly-paper to the lagged.
Agreed - I do hate this. The game DLL should be changed to allow movement,
albeit at a slower rate if you're brushing against a wall. It should only
stop you if you're crouched and trying to move.
> 9) And whats with this not automaticaly switching to the next best
> weapon when you run out of ammo?
Don't know what version you're playing, but all my weapons auto-switch when
they run out of ammo. Try reading up on the Quake 2 console commands and see
if there is a setting you don't have configured.
> If the progs.dat files from quake were compatible with quake2 (if quake2
> used one instead of using .dll's), how many people would have copied
> their quake progs.dat file into thier quake2 directory by now, hmmm?
I'd use the Q2 DLL. The Q1 game logic seems obsolete to me now.
Dave Gates
> > 1) Slow-motion takes it's sweet-assed-time weapon switching. Try
> > cycling through your weapon inventory in the middle of a fight and
> > you're off to the local morgue.
>
> Annoying, yes, but more realistic.
This one's okay with me too.
> > 2) What the hell is that damn hand grenade doing in the middle of the
> > weapon cycle anyway? - useless as tits on a bull.
>
> Learn to use it - it has the largest blast radius of all the weapons
> (grenades from the launcher don't do as much damage, BTW)
Interesting tidbit. Doesn't make much sense in the context of the game
since one is ammo for the other, but okay.
> I personally prefer the grenade launcher for flooding an area
> with grenades but that's just a playing style thing of mine. There is a bug
> in the game DLL where hand grenades get priority if you run over them, but
> that's a bug issue and not a design issue.
I think this bug is gone in 3.12.
> > 3) No rocket jumping. This was _the_ cool unexpected feature in Quake
> > - in Quake2 it will just turn you into bug juice.
>
> Bzzt.. Wrong, but thanks for playing. You need to do some more training. In
> fact, not only can you rocket jump (and BFG jump) but you can quad rocket
> jump with as little as 50 armor and 100 cells of power armor and still have
> plenty of health left. I do it all the time to get to the palace window in
> city1.
Rocket jumping has never made any sense to me, but c'est la vie.
> > 6) So called "balanced weapons". They're so "balanced" that they're
> > hardly worth fighting over.
>
> Your statement was so obtuse I'm not even sure what you're saying here.
For better or for worse, he's saying that he would expect the higher
numbered weapons to be much better than the lower numbered weapons.
> > 8) Odd-ball wall angles on corners are like fly-paper to the lagged.
>
> Agreed - I do hate this. The game DLL should be changed to allow movement,
> albeit at a slower rate if you're brushing against a wall. It should only
> stop you if you're crouched and trying to move.
I've always hated getting stuck on the beams in the walls! And since
I've edited a few maps, I know that it's possible for designers to put
in an invisible wedge-shaped thingy that'll alleviate this. I don't
know if I'm explaining this well, but instead of the beam coming out of
the wall at 90 degrees, this wedge comes out of the wall at 45 degrees
and extends to the end of the beam.
In other words, players don't have to get stuck on every beam in a
hallway.
> > 9) And whats with this not automaticaly switching to the next best
> > weapon when you run out of ammo?
>
> Don't know what version you're playing, but all my weapons auto-switch when
> they run out of ammo. Try reading up on the Quake 2 console commands and see
> if there is a setting you don't have configured.
I find that if I pick up a BFG and fire it once, it depletes itself to
zero but stays in my hand. I think other weapons also sit in your hand
when they've got zero shots left. I think firing them again causes you
to switch weapons, but getting down to zero shots doesn't.
I personally would like to be able to specify some choices. For
example, any time I have a shotgun and I run over a hyperblaster, I want
to trade up!
--
Dave Gates
dave...@davegates.com
Richie
>Things I dislike about Quake2 (Doom III actually):
>
>cycling through your weapon inventory in the middle of a fight and
>you're off to the local morgue.
This is a feature, to me. No more of the damned spray-and-pray
attitude of Quake 1. You can't charge in with ten cells left and
spray around with your hyperblaster knowing that you'll switch to
your RL instantly and be able to blast without a break. Puts a
bit more strategy in these things. You have to *think* whether
you want to get into an engagement or run and find more ammo so
you don't find yourself having to switch weapons in the middle of
a firefight.
>2) What the hell is that damn hand grenade doing in the middle of the
>weapon cycle anyway? - useless as tits on a bull.
Practice. I get way more frags with it than the railgun, or the
BFG, or the GL. They're _very_ useful once you get used to them.
>3) No rocket jumping. This was _the_ cool unexpected feature in Quake
>- in Quake2 it will just turn you into bug juice.
Whoa, bud, I don't know what version of Quake 2 you've been
playing, but rocket jumping is all over the place in my games.
Hell, there's even a secret in the single player game you can
only get to with a rocket jump, and 'You crazy rocket jumpers!'
is printed on the screen when you do. Practice.
>4) Those lame green names. Sure it was done by hacking, but you could
>personalize your name in Quake - made you stand out, everybody likes to
>feel like an individual. Instead of taking away choice, id should have
>made it so players could select different typefaces, styles, and colors.
You should get people's attention with your skills and style of
play, not some irritating animated name.
>5) Maps are laid out with an "anti-camper" mentality - result: there
>are no good areas for team play - every thing is _too_ exposed. In the
>end its just non-stop patternless mayhem, no tactics because tactics
>don't count when you can even stop to think about what your goals are.
I nearly choked on my drink when I read this. Are you SURE
you've been playing Quake 2? There are boxes and dark corners
and high ledges _everywhere_ in the levels. It's a stealthy
player's paradise.
>6) So called "balanced weapons". They're so "balanced" that they're
>hardly worth fighting over. Fact is, to compliment this the so called
>"high power" weapons are scattered all over the maps.
It's possible to kill people with every weapon given a bit of
skill, so that makes the weapons not worth fighting over? Uh..
whatever, dude. I for one don't miss the frenzied explosion
fests around RL respawn spots. Yeah, Quake 2 is just full of
non-stop patternless mayhem compared to Quake 1, isn't it?
>7) Rockets fly so slow you can almost get out and run as fast.
Rockets are now dodgable. Life's hell for you folks who use only
the RL, huh?
>8) Odd-ball wall angles on corners are like fly-paper to the lagged.
>Some jagged hallways you can barely move down without getting hung up on
>every other corner. Of course if you're like me and have a low ping
>connect, you can learn to spot these lagged players and pick them off as
>soon as they come into contact with the walls. Like shooting fish in a
>barrel.
Depends how good your eye-hand co-ordination is, I guess. I have
a 300ms ping on average and I don't get stuck on walls.
>9) And whats with this not automaticaly switching to the next best
>weapon when you run out of ammo? Ain't it cool to find yourself
>face-to-face with someone and press the trigger only to find your out of
>ammo for that weapon? It's slo-mo weapon change time! Fun, fun, fun.
Q2 *does* change weapon when you run out of ammo.
>Ask yourself one quick question:
>If the progs.dat files from quake were compatible with quake2 (if quake2
>used one instead of using .dll's), how many people would have copied
>their quake progs.dat file into thier quake2 directory by now, hmmm?
I know I wouldn't. Quake 1 is just gathering virtual dust on my
hard drive now.
Brian Trosko
-Ed- <n...@home.now> wrote:
: 1) Slow-motion takes it's sweet-assed-time weapon switching. Try
: cycling through your weapon inventory in the middle of a fight and
: you're off to the local morgue.
That's as it should be. If you're going to sit there going through a
toolbox "It this it? Naw...is this it? Lemme check..", then of *course*
you're going to get your ass fragged. Try editing a config file or
something so's you can pull out that weapon you need *right now*, right
now.
: 2) What the hell is that damn hand grenade doing in the middle of the
: weapon cycle anyway? - useless as tits on a bull.
See above. Don't want to cycle through them, then don't.
And grenades aren't useless. They're very useful, once you learn how to
use the damn things. For one thing, they do more damage thrown than
launched. For another, they're quiet.
: 4) Those lame green names. Sure it was done by hacking, but you could
: personalize your name in Quake - made you stand out, everybody likes to
: feel like an individual. Instead of taking away choice, id should have
: made it so players could select different typefaces, styles, and colors.
If you want to feel like an individual, paint your hair purple and wear a
spike through your upper lip. If you want to play QuakeII, then get in
there and kill somebody.
: 5) Maps are laid out with an "anti-camper" mentality - result: there
: are no good areas for team play - every thing is _too_ exposed. In the
: end its just non-stop patternless mayhem, no tactics because tactics
: don't count when you can even stop to think about what your goals are.
I've seen plenty of maps with good camping spots. It doesn't matter much,
since campers die.
: 6) So called "balanced weapons". They're so "balanced" that they're
: hardly worth fighting over. Fact is, to compliment this the so called
: "high power" weapons are scattered all over the maps.
Wuzza? The railgun kicks some serious ass. I'm always willing to
reau-cham-beau someone for it.
: 7) Rockets fly so slow you can almost get out and run as fast.
I do think they overcompensated a bit with this one, but I enjoy the other
weapons more anyway.
: 9) And whats with this not automaticaly switching to the next best
: weapon when you run out of ammo? Ain't it cool to find yourself
: face-to-face with someone and press the trigger only to find your out of
: ammo for that weapon? It's slo-mo weapon change time! Fun, fun, fun.
Far cooler to keep an eye on your ammo, so you can anticipate cycling your
chaingun dry just in time to give the other guy a faceful of shot.
-Ed-
On 23 Feb 1998 07:36:27 GMT, "David Pochron" <news...@mindspring.com>
wrote:
>-Ed- <n...@home.now> wrote in article <34f0ff54.44061080@frontXdoor>...
>> but is it as
>> enjoyable as quake/quakeworld? No f*ckin' way.
>
>Well, you're entitled to your opinion but I totally disagree with you. I
>only play Quake now if every Q2 server is full.
I find myself starting off playing q2, then after a hour or so I switch
back to quakeworld. When playing quake2 I am almost constantly
screaming, swearing and bitching about the game play. When I switch
over to quakeworld I often find myself laughing a lot because I find the
game that much more enjoyable - and to me that means I must be having
fun.
>> 1) Slow-motion takes it's sweet-assed-time weapon switching. Try
>> cycling through your weapon inventory in the middle of a fight and
>> you're off to the local morgue.
>
>Annoying, yes, but more realistic. Since everyone has this limitation,
>however, all things are still equal. I've fragged many a player while they
>were switching weapons so I rather like the slow switch times myself. Learn
>to pay attention to your ammo levels and make a quick escape while your
>weapon switches.
Realizim? No thanks - not interested in "realizim".
>> 2) What the hell is that damn hand grenade doing in the middle of the
>> weapon cycle anyway? - useless as tits on a bull.
>
>Learn to use it - it has the largest blast radius of all the weapons
>(grenades from the launcher don't do as much damage, BTW) and can be very
>effective. I personally prefer the grenade launcher for flooding an area
>with grenades but that's just a playing style thing of mine. There is a bug
>in the game DLL where hand grenades get priority if you run over them, but
>that's a bug issue and not a design issue.
Having a key binding to the grenade, like: "bind g +gren1", as in team
fortress is one thing. Placing the grenades in the "nextweap" &
"prevweap" cycle is something totally different.
>> 3) No rocket jumping. This was _the_ cool unexpected feature in Quake
>> - in Quake2 it will just turn you into bug juice.
>
>Bzzt.. Wrong, but thanks for playing. You need to do some more training. In
>fact, not only can you rocket jump (and BFG jump) but you can quad rocket
>jump with as little as 50 armor and 100 cells of power armor and still have
>plenty of health left. I do it all the time to get to the palace window in
>city1.
It don't work for me - i just go splat.
>> 5) Maps are laid out with an "anti-camper" mentality
>
>Huh!?! What maps are you playing? They certainly aren't Q2 maps. There are
>numerous camp/snipe points on all the maps (too numerous to mention, in fact)
>except for maybe strike.bsp.
It's not the ability to camp that I'm after - it's the fact that there
are few logically defendable areas for team play. Sure, there are
places that seem like they would make for a base camp, but then there
are so many entrances that you'd need 50 guys to hold the place for more
than two minutes. I'm not saying that there sould be impregnable areas
- just reasonably defendable ones. The exception to this is the
McKinley base in the ctf add-on pack for q2. That base will always be a
classic.
>> In the
>> end its just non-stop patternless mayhem, no tactics because tactics
>> don't count when you can even stop to think about what your goals are.
>
>You obviously haven't been reading this newsgroup. The group came a
>consensus that the Q2 maps were all more "thinking-man" oriented than the
>original Q1 maps were. Until the release of the DM maps this past week,
>run-and-shoot was definitely not the best strategy for Quake 2.
The "group" can have its own opinion, but what I saw playing out this
weekend was this: Two teams not really working to achieve a common
goal, just trying not to shoot each other as they roamed from room to
room trying to shoot guys on the other team. I only saw one instant of
variance from this when three guys attacked our flag room at the same
time. Since I was the only defender, and I was busy guarding the wrong
entrance, I took a slug in the back as they made off with the flag.
>> 6) So called "balanced weapons". They're so "balanced" that they're
>> hardly worth fighting over.
>
>Your statement was so obtuse I'm not even sure what you're saying here.
>Aside from the blaster and normal shotgun, all the other weapons are quite
>effective against each other. You just have to know when and how to use
>them. A super-shotgun and grenade launcher isn't going to help you if the
>enemy is far away, but that's not a game balance issue - that's a tactical
>issue. (Oops! But you claimed there are no tactics in Q2 - how silly of
>me!)
Pooh-pooh. Even the blaster is strong enough to take someone out with
only a few shots. And the rocket launcher is seldom a one shot one kill
weapon. The weaker weapons should be _slightly_ weaker than they are.
The stronger weapons should be stronger.
>> 7) Rockets fly so slow you can almost get out and run as fast.
>
>I like the new rocket speed.
I don't.
>> 8) Odd-ball wall angles on corners are like fly-paper to the lagged.
>
>Agreed - I do hate this. The game DLL should be changed to allow movement,
>albeit at a slower rate if you're brushing against a wall. It should only
>stop you if you're crouched and trying to move.
I think the problem here is that in the motion physics of the game
players fronts are treated as flat surfaces instead like v-shaped
railroad plows. Come face-to-face with another player and neither one
can move forward, even if its just your left sholder brushing his right.
The same holds true with protruding portions of walls and trim.
If the game physics treated player surfaces as like v-shaped plows the
player would be able to move forward - although slightly off to the side
at the same time.
>> 9) And whats with this not automaticaly switching to the next best
>> weapon when you run out of ammo?
>
>Don't know what version you're playing, but all my weapons auto-switch when
>they run out of ammo. Try reading up on the Quake 2 console commands and see
>if there is a setting you don't have configured.
What I am talking about here is that if you fire your last rocket, then
stop without pulling the trigger on an empty round the game does not
automaticly select the next best weapon - it waits until you attempt to
fire the next rocket (which you don't have because it's empty) before it
will switch you - and with the slo-mo weapon changes by then it is often
too late.
>> If the progs.dat files from quake were compatible with quake2 (if quake2
>> used one instead of using .dll's), how many people would have copied
>> their quake progs.dat file into thier quake2 directory by now, hmmm?
>
>I'd use the Q2 DLL. The Q1 game logic seems obsolete to me now.
I would be hoping back and forth. I would love to be able to graft the
original quake gameplay into this new engine.
-Ed-
David Pochron
-Ed- <n...@home.now> wrote in article
> When I switch
> over to quakeworld I often find myself laughing a lot because I find the
> game that much more enjoyable - and to me that means I must be having fun.
Well, that's fine if you like Q1 better (more available servers for me :-)
but I just didn't like how you started (and ended) your post by claiming to
know that all Q2 players actually prefer Q1 like you do.
> Having a key binding to the grenade, like: "bind g +gren1", as in team
> fortress is one thing. Placing the grenades in the "nextweap" &
> "prevweap" cycle is something totally different.
Even so, I still disagree. I like having the hand grenade in the weapons
cycle.
> It don't work for me - i just go splat.
Keep trying. I can't understand what you're doing wrong. Not only does the
RJing work, but if you look at the game DLL source, id tweaked the rocket
blast kickback especially for rocket jumping just like it worked in Q1.
> It's not the ability to camp that I'm after - it's the fact that there
> are few logically defendable areas for team play.
Well, you never really stated in your message you were specifically
interested in CTF. Most of my comments on using tactics refer to deathmatch.
I haven't played enough CTF to really comment on this, and the only teamplay
server I've even played on (199.67.51.102) is a Q1 server but has nothing to
guard - it's just 3 teams fighting each other. For what it's worth, most of
the CTF maps I've ever seen have at least 2 entrances into the flag room.
Even the non-CTF maps like base1 and city1 don't really have more than 2 ways
to get into a flag room.
> The weaker weapons should be _slightly_ weaker than they are.
> The stronger weapons should be stronger.
OK, *now* I understand what you're saying. You're actually complaining that
the weapons are *too* balanced, not unbalanced. For me, I prefer the
balanced, weakened hi-power weapons like they are now this because I got
tired of the constant "everyone grabs the RL" mentality in Q1.
> What I am talking about here is that if you fire your last rocket, then
> stop without pulling the trigger on an empty round the game does not
> automaticly select the next best weapon - it waits until you attempt to
> fire the next rocket
Okay, you're right about that, but it doesn't make much difference to me
since I'm always watching my ammo levels anyway. Once my ammo is as 0, I
just switch to the next weapon. My logic here is this: If I'm in a battle,
the weapon is going to switch automatically anyway because I'll keep firing.
If I'm not in a battle, then I have time to hit 'weapnext' key to pick the
weapon I want.
Scooby Doo
stupid questions, just reply to them.
Scoobs
"DUH"
Richie wrote:
> >Things I dislike about Quake2 (Doom III actually):
> >
> >1) Slow-motion takes it's sweet-assed-time weapon switching. Try
> >cycling through your weapon inventory in the middle of a fight and
> >you're off to the local morgue.
>
> This is a feature, to me. No more of the damned spray-and-pray
> attitude of Quake 1. You can't charge in with ten cells left and
> spray around with your hyperblaster knowing that you'll switch to
> your RL instantly and be able to blast without a break. Puts a
> bit more strategy in these things. You have to *think* whether
> you want to get into an engagement or run and find more ammo so
> you don't find yourself having to switch weapons in the middle of
> a firefight.
>
> >2) What the hell is that damn hand grenade doing in the middle of the
> >weapon cycle anyway? - useless as tits on a bull.
>
> Practice. I get way more frags with it than the railgun, or the
> BFG, or the GL. They're _very_ useful once you get used to them.
>
> >3) No rocket jumping. This was _the_ cool unexpected feature in Quake
> >- in Quake2 it will just turn you into bug juice.
>
> Whoa, bud, I don't know what version of Quake 2 you've been
> playing, but rocket jumping is all over the place in my games.
> Hell, there's even a secret in the single player game you can
> only get to with a rocket jump, and 'You crazy rocket jumpers!'
> is printed on the screen when you do. Practice.
>
> >4) Those lame green names. Sure it was done by hacking, but you could
> >personalize your name in Quake - made you stand out, everybody likes to
> >feel like an individual. Instead of taking away choice, id should have
> >made it so players could select different typefaces, styles, and colors.
>
> You should get people's attention with your skills and style of
> play, not some irritating animated name.
>
> >5) Maps are laid out with an "anti-camper" mentality - result: there
> >are no good areas for team play - every thing is _too_ exposed. In the
> >end its just non-stop patternless mayhem, no tactics because tactics
> >don't count when you can even stop to think about what your goals are.
>
> I nearly choked on my drink when I read this. Are you SURE
> you've been playing Quake 2? There are boxes and dark corners
> and high ledges _everywhere_ in the levels. It's a stealthy
> player's paradise.
>
> >6) So called "balanced weapons". They're so "balanced" that they're
> >hardly worth fighting over. Fact is, to compliment this the so called
> >"high power" weapons are scattered all over the maps.
>
> It's possible to kill people with every weapon given a bit of
> skill, so that makes the weapons not worth fighting over? Uh..
> whatever, dude. I for one don't miss the frenzied explosion
> fests around RL respawn spots. Yeah, Quake 2 is just full of
> non-stop patternless mayhem compared to Quake 1, isn't it?
>
> >7) Rockets fly so slow you can almost get out and run as fast.
>
> Rockets are now dodgable. Life's hell for you folks who use only
> the RL, huh?
>
> >8) Odd-ball wall angles on corners are like fly-paper to the lagged.
> >Some jagged hallways you can barely move down without getting hung up on
> >every other corner. Of course if you're like me and have a low ping
> >connect, you can learn to spot these lagged players and pick them off as
> >soon as they come into contact with the walls. Like shooting fish in a
> >barrel.
>
> Depends how good your eye-hand co-ordination is, I guess. I have
> a 300ms ping on average and I don't get stuck on walls.
>
> >9) And whats with this not automaticaly switching to the next best
> >weapon when you run out of ammo? Ain't it cool to find yourself
> >face-to-face with someone and press the trigger only to find your out of
> >ammo for that weapon? It's slo-mo weapon change time! Fun, fun, fun.
>
> Q2 *does* change weapon when you run out of ammo.
>
> >Ask yourself one quick question:
> >If the progs.dat files from quake were compatible with quake2 (if quake2
> >used one instead of using .dll's), how many people would have copied
> >their quake progs.dat file into thier quake2 directory by now, hmmm?
>
Jack Gaumer
well... stop complaining... if your soooo pissed about it, get isdn
cablemodem or a t1... dont make us faster connection people
dl your bitches... unless its some thing every one needs to know...
Sherpa
Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:27:10 -0800, Scooby Doo, graced us with wisdom and
knowlege, then confidently said........
>
> Stupid question here. What is rocket jumping? And you know I never ask
> stupid questions, just reply to them.
>
> Scoobs
> "DUH"
Point your rocket launcher at the ground, shoot and jump at the same
time. It's like being the Bionic Man.........
--
Later,
Sherpa
Remove the I to reply
ICQ# 6712362 (keep the I and say hi =-})
Samiad
>: 7) Rockets fly so slow you can almost get out and run as fast.
>
>I do think they overcompensated a bit with this one, but I enjoy the other
>weapons more anyway.
I had to reply; in Q1 I was on a server that slowed down the speed of
the rockets to stop the over-dependancy (sp?) of the rocket launcher.
It's a funny experience to fire a rocket then run past it and be hit
with it!!
McGurk
On Mon, 23 Feb 1998 05:47:44 GMT, n...@home.now (-Ed-) wrote:
>Things I dislike about Quake2 (Doom III actually):
>
>1) Slow-motion takes it's sweet-assed-time weapon switching. Try
>cycling through your weapon inventory in the middle of a fight and
>you're off to the local morgue.
FUCKING A! Its SO FUCKEN SLOW I can't stand it! I can understand
taking time to pull the weapon out of your magic bag, but just
flipping though the inventory CRAWLS!
>2) What the hell is that damn hand grenade doing in the middle of the
>weapon cycle anyway? - useless as tits on a bull.
It was fine where it was, on the end. Now I have to learn flipping
through weapons all over again.
>3) No rocket jumping. This was _the_ cool unexpected feature in Quake
>- in Quake2 it will just turn you into bug juice.
Eh? You take some hits, but you can still do it.
>4) Those lame green names. Sure it was done by hacking, but you could
>personalize your name in Quake - made you stand out, everybody likes to
>feel like an individual. Instead of taking away choice, id should have
>made it so players could select different typefaces, styles, and colors.
Yawn.
>5) Maps are laid out with an "anti-camper" mentality - result: there
>are no good areas for team play - every thing is _too_ exposed. In the
>end its just non-stop patternless mayhem, no tactics because tactics
>don't count when you can even stop to think about what your goals are.
For the DM maps, exactly. There's no tactics to those maps. Just run
and die.
>7) Rockets fly so slow you can almost get out and run as fast.
Bad ping takes care of that. But it'd be nice to see realistic,
accelerating rockets. THAT'D scare the hell outta people...
>8) Odd-ball wall angles on corners are like fly-paper to the lagged.
>Some jagged hallways you can barely move down without getting hung up on
>every other corner. Of course if you're like me and have a low ping
>connect, you can learn to spot these lagged players and pick them off as
>soon as they come into contact with the walls. Like shooting fish in a
>barrel.
Same thing when you run into other people. I get stuck on
motherfuckers all the time.
McGurk... Yes, THAT McGurk. You die now.
Gregory Cook
Brian Trosko <btr...@primenet.com> wrote:
»-Ed- <n...@home.now> wrote:
»: 4) Those lame green names. Sure it was done by hacking, but you could
»: personalize your name in Quake - made you stand out, everybody likes to
»: feel like an individual. Instead of taking away choice, id should have
»: made it so players could select different typefaces, styles, and colors.
»
»If you want to feel like an individual, paint your hair purple and wear a
»spike through your upper lip. If you want to play QuakeII, then get in
»there and kill somebody.
Agreed. Also, custom names would majorly slow down modem users, and since
I'm currently a modem user, that doesn't sound too good to me. #;-}>
------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Cook - Rice University 1999 Aero/Mech Engineering Major
Robert Heinlein/The X-Files/Star Wars/Star Trek: NextGen fan
U2/The Who/Tori Amos/Led Zeppelin/Pink Floyd/David Bowie fan
http://www.wco.com/~coolness/ -- ftp.wco.com/users/coolness/
"Nothing happens in contradiction to nature,
only in contradiction to what we know of it."
------------------------------ -Dana Scully (in Herrenvolk)
Patrick Dolan
Dave Gates wrote in message <34F139BF...@davegates.com>...
>> > 1) Slow-motion takes it's sweet-assed-time weapon switching. Try
>> > cycling through your weapon inventory in the middle of a fight and
>> > you're off to the local morgue.
>>
>> Annoying, yes, but more realistic.
>
>This one's okay with me too.
>
But considering the problems with lag, I have to agree this is a bad idea.
If everyone was playing at the same speed, with no lagging, pauses or
hang-ups, it would be perfectly fair. As it is, I'm not sure it's working
the way it was intended. Instead, it just feels slow & clumsy.
>
>> > 2) What the hell is that damn hand grenade doing in the middle of the
>> > weapon cycle anyway? - useless as tits on a bull.
>>
>> Learn to use it - it has the largest blast radius of all the weapons
>> (grenades from the launcher don't do as much damage, BTW)
>
>Interesting tidbit. Doesn't make much sense in the context of the game
>since one is ammo for the other, but okay.
>
Pseudo-technical explaination time!
Standard issue grenades are composed of two chambers filled with explosive
material, one large and one small, isolated from one another. When manually
detonated (by activating the timer & hurling the grenade by hand), both
chambers explode seperately, but simultaneously, for a full-power explosion.
However, when used as ammuntion for a grenade-launcher, the smaller chamber
is detonated while within the weapon, using the explosive force to propel
the grenade to the target, much as gunpowder in a shell propels a bullet.
RONIN
>Dave Gates wrote in message <34F139BF...@davegates.com>...
>>> > 1) Slow-motion takes it's sweet-assed-time weapon switching. Try
>>> > cycling through your weapon inventory in the middle of a fight and
>>> > you're off to the local morgue.
>>>
>>> Annoying, yes, but more realistic.
Yeah, but you can bind weapons (autoexec.cfg), its a lot more faster
for sure. Switching sequentially is ultimate death when going from
rocket launcer back to rail gun...
John J Smith
In article <34f0ff54.44061080@frontXdoor>, -Ed- <n...@home.now> wrote:
>
>2) What the hell is that damn hand grenade doing in the middle of the
>weapon cycle anyway? - useless as tits on a bull.
I reckon you can't call yourself even a competent death match player if
you can't wander over and pick up a grenade, then lob it into someone
elses firefight. Splendidly aesthetic...
Grenades can be really good, just takes a while to arm them (that might
be balanced, but realistic? I suspect someone would have invented the
quick-arm grenade by now).
Smid
McGurk
>
>But considering the problems with lag, I have to agree this is a bad idea.
>If everyone was playing at the same speed, with no lagging, pauses or
>hang-ups, it would be perfectly fair. As it is, I'm not sure it's working
>the way it was intended. Instead, it just feels slow & clumsy.
Yeah, you'd be playing an okay game (maybe 300 ping, 15-20 fps) when
some dude with 1000 ping and 8fps logs on. Then everybody would be
yelling at HPB's...
Corndog
Corndog
-Ed- wrote:
Yeah that's right. Let's put all the bullshit aside. Sure Quake2 has a
much improved engine and intricately detailed maps, but is it as
enjoyable as quake/quakeworld? No f*ckin' way.
Now I've played it for a while, and there are some really good features
to it. I _like_ the fact that you can duck (considering that the
whiners cried out against this it's a miracle it made it into the final
release), and the sub-machine gun is great - BFG too.
But, it seems to me that they listened to every whiner that came along
when they were putting Quake2 together. Hell, considering the crap in
some of their "plan's" I'd say that the densest concentration of whiners
are working right at id.
Things I dislike about Quake2 (Doom III actually):
1) Slow-motion takes it's sweet-assed-time weapon switching. Try
cycling through your weapon inventory in the middle of a fight and
you're off to the local morgue.
2) What the hell is that damn hand grenade doing in the middle of the
weapon cycle anyway? - useless as tits on a bull.
3) No rocket jumping. This was _the_ cool unexpected feature in Quake
- in Quake2 it will just turn you into bug juice.
4) Those lame green names. Sure it was done by hacking, but you could
personalize your name in Quake - made you stand out, everybody likes to
feel like an individual. Instead of taking away choice, id should have
made it so players could select different typefaces, styles, and colors.
5) Maps are laid out with an "anti-camper" mentality - result: there
are no good areas for team play - every thing is _too_ exposed. In the
end its just non-stop patternless mayhem, no tactics because tactics
don't count when you can even stop to think about what your goals are.
6) So called "balanced weapons". They're so "balanced" that they're
hardly worth fighting over. Fact is, to compliment this the so called
"high power" weapons are scattered all over the maps.
7) Rockets fly so slow you can almost get out and run as fast.
8) Odd-ball wall angles on corners are like fly-paper to the lagged.
Some jagged hallways you can barely move down without getting hung up on
every other corner. Of course if you're like me and have a low ping
connect, you can learn to spot these lagged players and pick them off as
soon as they come into contact with the walls. Like shooting fish in a
barrel.
9) And whats with this not automaticaly switching to the next best
weapon when you run out of ammo? Ain't it cool to find yourself
face-to-face with someone and press the trigger only to find your out of
ammo for that weapon? It's slo-mo weapon change time! Fun, fun, fun.
Ask yourself one quick question:
If the progs.dat files from quake were compatible with quake2 (if quake2
used one instead of using .dll's), how many people would have copied
their quake progs.dat file into thier quake2 directory by now, hmmm?
Well, one things for sure - we can believe id when they say they and
Matt
McGurk <jgocekF...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Feb 1998 05:47:44 GMT, n...@home.now (-Ed-) wrote:
> >Things I dislike about Quake2 (Doom III actually):
> >
> >1) Slow-motion takes it's sweet-assed-time weapon switching. Try
> >cycling through your weapon inventory in the middle of a fight and
> >you're off to the local morgue.
> FUCKING A! Its SO FUCKEN SLOW I can't stand it! I can understand
> taking time to pull the weapon out of your magic bag, but just
> flipping though the inventory CRAWLS!
I have never even used the weapon cycle feature... I don't know anyone who
really does, but I guess I don't watch too many people play Quake2, I ust
play against them...
I suggest mapping convenient keys to pull out your favrite weapons, or
just hit the number that matches the weapon.. with practice, you can hit
your weapon # without looking down at the keyboard...
Erik Collett
Honestly, when it comes to weapon refresh (Switching), I like the lag. It
seems silly, but it adds a much more satisfying feel for the game in itself.
It requires much more strategy in keeping your weapons primed before
battle... It is the difference between a real player and someone who is just
bummin' around.
Honestly, I can't play anything but Quake 2 multiplayer now. The game has
class! That's hard to say about the one month wonders that come out of these
big companies.
Gotta love it!
-- ElcMan
codymil...@gmail.com
beatdown
> Its 2018 and Quake 2 is still going.
>
> http://q2s.tastyspleen.net/
but still fun.
Cory Hansen
> Yeah that's right. Let's put all the bullshit aside. Sure Quake2 has a
> much improved engine and intricately detailed maps, but is it as
> enjoyable as quake/quakeworld? No f*ckin' way.
>
> Now I've played it for a while, and there are some really good features
> to it. I _like_ the fact that you can duck (considering that the
> whiners cried out against this it's a miracle it made it into the final
> release), and the sub-machine gun is great - BFG too.
>
> But, it seems to me that they listened to every whiner that came along
> when they were putting Quake2 together. Hell, considering the crap in
> some of their "plan's" I'd say that the densest concentration of whiners
> are working right at id.
>
>
> 1) Slow-motion takes it's sweet-assed-time weapon switching. Try
> cycling through your weapon inventory in the middle of a fight and
> you're off to the local morgue.
>
-Chad
