A question about SPOT & LISTEN
Rancid
is for spoting creatures who're moving silently...
But I've read a guide and some guy claims these skills do so much
more...(such as being able to see what's behind a door before you even open
it)...and are soooo important to the thief class.....well, I don't think
so...but I want to know for sure. Are these skills worth a damn to a thief?
Or to anyone??
cavebear
>more...(such as being able to see what's behind a door before you even open
>it)...and are soooo important to the thief class.....well, I don't think
>so...but I want to know for sure. Are these skills worth a damn to a thief?
>Or to anyone??
In the OC, no, they're not worth much. However, there are sets of
scripts out there (improved monster AI and such) that make these
skills very worthwhile because monsters with Hide and Move Silently
skills will use them and be on top of you before you know it.
--
Aunt Mattie's Mayhem,
an adventure module for NWN
http://home.attbi.com/~cavebear/amm/
Wayne Youngman
"Rancid" wrote
> Ya know, the game says Spot is for detecting hiding creatures...and Listen
> is for spoting creatures who're moving silently...
>
> more...(such as being able to see what's behind a door before you even
open
> it)...and are soooo important to the thief class.....well, I don't think
> so...but I want to know for sure. Are these skills worth a damn to a
thief?
> Or to anyone??
"cavebear" wrote
> In the OC, no, they're not worth much. However, there are sets of
> scripts out there (improved monster AI and such) that make these
> skills very worthwhile because monsters with Hide and Move Silently
> skills will use them and be on top of you before you know it.
Hello again Rancid,
I say YES! these skills are great, a MUST have for the accomplished 'Solo'
rogue. LISTEN skill is great. I was amazed the first time when I was hiding
around a corner in a cave standing still, then slowly appearing out of
'mist' I could see some HUGE spiders, clicking and walking around. I didn't
have direct line of sight, as in I couldnt actually see into the cave
because I was around a corner.
See my digram attempt below.
x=Big Spiders
*=My Elf Rogue/Wizard
x
x
-- ---------------wall--------
*
---------------------wall--------
From this position I could see and hear the big furry spiders.
Spot skill is not as useful as Listen but still worth having. I didn't meet
that many monsters who can hide in shadows but they do exist, also I believe
that now there are trap doors and secret doors that u need Spot skill to
discover
Solo Rogue would benefit from having high amounts of:
Move Silently
Hide in Shadows
Detect Traps
Disarm Traps
Listen
Spot
Use Items
and at least 5 ranks in Set Traps, 5-10 ranks in Persuade, and cant remember
any more just now (I didn't play for 3 months). Lastly don't be scared to
make a mistake with your points, just play the game and enjoy, you will
learn allot about the skills that way, so when u start your next character u
have all that knowledge,
cya later,
Wayne ][
cavebear
>that many monsters who can hide in shadows but they do exist, also I believe
>that now there are trap doors and secret doors that u need Spot skill to
>discover
IIRC, finding secret doors is dependent upon the Search skill, not the
Spot skill.
Wayne Youngman
"Wayne" wrote
> >Spot skill is not as useful as Listen but still worth having. I didn't
meet
> >that many monsters who can hide in shadows but they do exist, also I
believe
> >that now there are trap doors and secret doors that u need Spot skill to
> >discover
"cavebear"wrote
> IIRC, finding secret doors is dependent upon the Search skill, not the
> Spot skill.
Yup you are correct, my mistake. lol as I said I didn't play NWN for some
months now so I do forget some of the names. Just a few posts ago I was
calling Wizards 'Mages'. Yes so Spot is only to counter someone else's
'Hide in Shadows' and nothing else then?? . Hmm I was calling search 'Detect
traps' then :) My two Elf Rogue/Wizards had many many skills points and I'm
sure I had a few skills at level 40 ish, obviously Rogue/Wizard gets about
40-44 skills points to start with then a further 8-12 per level, so u have
no worries about points u just spend, spend, spend. I think u are seeking
'technical' character perfection in theory and I am saying don't sweat it,
just spend the points, and see what u think of the skill/Try and understand
how to use it the best, and ENJOY. After I reached level 20 as a
Rogue/Wizard the first time I was able to look at the way I built it (for my
style of gaming), and make some tweaks so that my next Rogue/Wizard was even
better. People may think it is a bit boring to play the same character a
second time around but I don't think so, especially if u are a person who
likes to build/grow a really nice/strong character who plays SOLO. I can't
really imagine paying solo without allot of Rogue levels/skills. My new
character is a Pure Human Paladin level 16 (uses a Great-Sword/Crystal) and
he is very fun to play, but he is always walking into traps etc which makes
me crazy after playing a Elf Rogue/Wizard with level 40 ish trap skills.
Hey with all this talk i may have to install NWN on my machine and start
playing again lol :)
cya,
Wayne ][
cavebear
>sure I had a few skills at level 40 ish,
Just another nitpick :-)
You can't have skill ranks in the 40 range without heavy-duty magic.
The highest rank in a class skill that you can "buy" with skill points
is three greater than your character level, so max of 23. (Non-class
skills are limited to half, rounded down, max class skills, so you max
out your buying power at 11.) Obviously, ability bonuses, feat
bonuses, racial bonuses, and magic bonuses can all add to a skill, so
it is feasible to have an actual skill rank of 40+ after all bonuses
are calculated.
And, yes, rogues get lots of skill points to spend, but many other
classes do not. Sorcerers, for example, only get 2 skill points per
level plus their INT bonus (which, unlike the Wizard is probably going
to be a bit low). And, since Spot is not a class skill for any class
except ranger and rogue, spending 2 points for Spot skills might not
be worthwhile. Thus my original post, in the OC, Spot isn't very
useful because monsters don't Hide (nor do they Move Silently, so
Listen is also next to useless).
*However*, there are modules out there using improved AI routines for
monsters that do cause them to Hide and Move Silently, making Spot and
Listen skills more important. So, it really depends on the module you
are playing, whether you want to spend points on those skills or not.
For rogues, with all those skill points, I think the following skills
are the most useful for the OC: Disable Trap, Heal, Hide, Lore, Move
Silently, Open Lock, Persuade, Search, Set Trap and Use Magic Device.
That's 10 class skills right there to use your 8+INT bonus skill
points on every level. Spot and Listen are not that important. Not to
mention Discipline, which is useful for a melee-type rogue, but is not
a class skill (requiring 2 skill points for each rank).
Wayne Youngman
> Are these skills worth a damn to a thief?
> Or to anyone??
"Wayne" wrote
> >My two Elf Rogue/Wizards had many many skills points and I'm
> >sure I had a few skills at level 40 ish,
"cavebear" wrote
Hi,
Hmm, well yes I agree that during the 'Official' campaign u don't need any
points in spot (I think that some can hide?), I don't agree about Listen.
I'm pretty sure that u get to see 'noisy' monsters that are not in
line-of-sight. Again I say just spend the points and see for yourself. I
played a ton of good custom modules that used extra scripting so as cavebear
said, in these cases Spot & Listen are allot more useful, as they are for
PvP.
I agree with your idea of Rogue Skills EXCEPT: Healing (eh?) and LORE (well
maybe 5-10 points in lore but why more?)
As to the point of skills, yes I'm pretty sure I reached a score of 40 in
some skills, bearing in mind that I had a DEX of about 30-35, racial
modifiers, skill synergy bonuses, spells, nice items etc. Anyway I will get
some screen shots and stuff sorted and they can speak for themselves, lets
not have more needless threads. .
To sum up, LISTEN is the better of the 2 skills, as u get advanced warning
of monsters that u cannot even see (around a corner etc), and SPOT skill is
really not needed at all in the 'Official' campaign, but may be useful when
u begin to play custom mods that have nasty Hide in shadows/backstabbing
monsters
I think that concluded this thread of Spot & Listen,
Wayne ][