Multiclass - Xp Penalties
Wayne Youngman
I noticed some people speaking of multiclass and being worried about the
penalties to exp u get if u don't balance it right. However i just wanted
to say that its not a big deal really, just means u level up 'slightly
slower but u will still reach level 20. I don't know if this EXP CAP has
been adjusted since I played last, but if its still the same then u can
almost ignore the worries of making a multiclass. I thinks its almost nicer
to level slightly slower to keep the game challenging e.g: first time I
played NWN I was Elf-Rogue/Wizard and I reached level 20 (MAX) by the end of
chapter 2.
What u think? is it such a big deal to be a 'uneven' Multiclass. .
Wayne ][
Rancid
Rancid
multiclassing...waste of time.
Insane Ranter
"Rancid" <lovetho...@cookiesncrackers.com> wrote in message
news:uupr2p4...@corp.supernews.com...
> How the holy hell did you reach level 20 by the end of chapter 2??
>
He blocked the animals in the zoo and kept getting the 50xp by talking to
them over and over I bet...or DM leveled him up?
Matthew Miller
>What u think? is it such a big deal to be a 'uneven' Multiclass. .
At first, what I thought was "something is wrong with his y and o keys". But
then I realised that no, those letters came through in your name properly.
I guess maybe you filled that into a configuration box in your newsreader
before your keyboard broke. You may want to consider getting a new one --
you can find 'em for $10 or so.
--
Matthew Miller mat...@mattdm.org <http://www.mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
Wayne Youngman
> Hi,
>
> I noticed some people speaking of multiclass and being worried about the
> penalties to exp u get if u don't balance it right. However i just wanted
> to say that its not a big deal really, just means u level up 'slightly
> slower but u will still reach level 20. I don't know if this EXP CAP has
> been adjusted since I played last, but if its still the same then u can
> almost ignore the worries of making a multiclass. I thinks its almost
nicer
> to level slightly slower to keep the game challenging e.g: first time I
> played NWN I was Elf-Rogue/Wizard and I reached level 20 (MAX) by the end
of
> chapter 2.
>
"Rancid" wrote
> How the holy hell did you reach level 20 by the end of chapter 2??
> And by the by, was that Rogue/Wizard worth a crap? I tried
> multiclassing...waste of time.
"Insane Ranter" wrote
> He blocked the animals in the zoo and kept getting the 50xp by talking to
> them over and over I bet...or DM leveled him up?
"Matthew Miller" wrote
> At first, what I thought was "something is wrong with his y and o keys".
But
> then I realised that no, those letters came through in your name properly.
> I guess maybe you filled that into a configuration box in your newsreader
> before your keyboard broke. You may want to consider getting a new one --
> you can find 'em for $10 or so.
Hi guys,
lol some funny replies there :)
Firstly I reached level 20 by chapter two end by being very thorough and
killing every monster I could find, also completing lots and lots of quests,
and yes the Elf Rogue/Wizard is a very powerful build and very versatile,
that is 'Jack of all Trades & Master of several', also I had a cool full
time Orc henchman (Dalien). Rogue/Wizard can use nealry all the magic items
in the game, does crazy crazy damage if he catches enemies by suprise,
decent hits (180 Life) and the BEST defence (AC:41-45). Of course my first
Elf Rogue/Wizard was not perfect but my next build was (2nd time through).
I had Hide in shadows 40+ (move silenty 35 ish) is very powerful, detect
traps 30-40 etc, DEX was like 30 ish. Yeah the Elf Rogue/Wizard is worth a
sh*t :). I was a little shocked myself to reach level 20 by chapter 2
finish, it was a small downer to know that no matter how much more I killed
i wouldnt level up no more, wished the cap wasn't there actually. My friend
finished the whole game at level 17 Elf Wizard?? :)
I didn't block any animals at the Zoo, I levelled legit. Lol why u assume
everyone cheats?
And as to the guy who wrote 5 sentences about me using 'u' instead of 'you',
well all I can say is why?
Lets try and keep this newgroup friendly, I am only making these posts to
discuss ideas with fellow NWN fans, I am a clean legit player who played the
official campaign through nearly twice and then played maybe 30-40 modules.
I consider myself a Elf Rogue/Wizard/Fighter Multiclass specialist, I also
have a level 16 pure paladin who is kicking some undead butt!. I havent
played any other character class yet (Cleric, Monk, Bard, Ranger etc) and
the only Race I played is Elf and Human. I think NWN is the best Single
player game/Multiplayer on LAN game that I ever did see. My experiences of
it online have not been so good. The fact that u can download mods from the
internet (NWVault) is just so cool, but can get u into trouble with your
work and girlfirend etc :)
So back to the point of my posts, Multiclass - Xp Penalties,
cya guys,
Wayne ][
Matthew Miller
>I didn't block any animals at the Zoo, I levelled legit. Lol why u assume
>everyone cheats?
Well, I think because we're skeptical that there's 20 levels worth of XP in
all the monsters in the first level, total. Well, 17 levels, since you start
with some from the prelude. But still. I played with the first patch of the
game, when there was more XP to go around in general, and while I don't
remember exactly, I doubt I had 1/4 of that much XP -- and I was very
thorough too.
>And as to the guy who wrote 5 sentences about me using 'u' instead of 'you',
>well all I can say is why?
Just trying to help with your system problem! :)
John Twernbold
> I didn't block any animals at the Zoo, I levelled legit. Lol why u
> assume everyone cheats?
Well, it's because you claimed you reached level 20 by the end of Chapter
2. And frankly, I'm having a hard time believing it, too. Even if you do
every single side quest and kill every single creature (including all the
civilians), I still don't think it's possible.
--
Bold
aka John Twernbold
jtwernbold (at) yahoo.com
www.aghl-nwn.org
cavebear
<Big....@wardofpower.bigfoot.com> wrote:
>Firstly I reached level 20 by chapter two end by being very thorough and
>killing every monster I could find, also completing lots and lots of quests,
>and yes the Elf Rogue/Wizard is a very powerful build and very versatile,
>that is 'Jack of all Trades & Master of several', also I had a cool full
>time Orc henchman (Dalien).
Having a henchman *decreases* XP awarded to your PC. I would be
slightly less skeptical had you told us you used no henchman at all.
Still, I don't think it is possible to get to level 20 by the end of
Chapter 2, especially with the new XP reward system. I played the
first time through with the 1.10 version of the game (which was a lot
more generous with XP rewards), and just made level 20 before the
final battle. My second time through, my Elf Ranger has just hit level
15 at the beginning of Chapter 4 and she did *everything*--all the
quests, killed all the monsters, etc.
The only way I can see anyone hitting level 20 by the end of Chapter 2
is sitting in one of the places where monsters respawn and "levelling
up" by repeatedly killing monsters rather than pushing through to the
end of that "dungeon". Or by killing everything, friend and foe alike.
You weren't an evil Elf were you?
--
Aunt Mattie's Mayhem,
an adventure module for NWN
http://home.attbi.com/~cavebear/amm/
Matthew Miller
>end of that "dungeon". Or by killing everything, friend and foe alike.
>You weren't an evil Elf were you?
I don't think that'd work, even. It's not worth the energy to try it, but I
bet that if you *start* chapter one at level 15 or so, you'll find that the
CR of all the creatures is so low that you're only getting 2 or 3 xp each.
Wayne Youngman
> >end of that "dungeon". Or by killing everything, friend and foe alike.
> >You weren't an evil Elf were you?
"Matthew Miller" wrote
> I don't think that'd work, even. It's not worth the energy to try it, but
I
> bet that if you *start* chapter one at level 15 or so, you'll find that
the
> CR of all the creatures is so low that you're only getting 2 or 3 xp each.
Hi again,
Hmmm you guys seem pretty intense about this. You have picked up on a
'small' detail of my original post and avoided the original question which
was about the Multiclass exp system. The fact that I reached level 20 by
chapter 2 end wasn't the main point of this post, but I only included that
because it seemed silly to me that I couldn't gain anymore levels. Yes the
First time through I had the orc barbarian pretty much all the time, 2nd
time through I played solo. Anyway u guys have me wondering if something
has changed since I played last. I had this game given to me by a friend
who flew from New York to London, and I'm sure I had it a month before it
was released in U.K. I figure that something (patch) has changed now then
if u make such a song & dance about exp. The point of my original post was
basically who cares if your multicass is uneven and u loose exp from this,
because the exp 'seemed' to be coming in too fast.
Thanks for your replies anyway, maybe u can ease up a bit with your attitude
and have some conversations without becoming angry and pointing fingers at
people and saying 'Witch!. . .burn the witch!'
Peace to all fans of NWN,
Wayne ][
P.S: I play Good alignment Elves, not EVIL!!
cavebear
>basically who cares if your multicass is uneven and u loose exp from this,
>because the exp 'seemed' to be coming in too fast.
And the point of our replies is that it is unreasonable for a
single-class character, or multi-class without the XP penalty, to
reach level 20 by the end of Chapter 2. In fact, under the newest
patches, it is almost impossible to reach 20 by the end of the entire
campaign. Thus, it *does* matter if you are receiving an XP penalty
due to unbalanced classes. Your original reasoning is flawed;
therefore, your conclusions are invalid and *that's* why we are
nitpicking.
We're not accusing you of being a "witch"; but, we don't want the
original poster to come away with bad advice--which is what you are
offering. Sorry if that offends you, but that's the way it is.
Matthew Miller
>Hmmm you guys seem pretty intense about this. You have picked up on a
>'small' detail of my original post and avoided the original question which
>was about the Multiclass exp system. The fact that I reached level 20 by
I don't think we're being any more intense than we usually are here. Pretty
calm for usenet overall. We're just skeptical people when we see claims that
don't line up.
Wayne Youngman
> >The point of my original post was
> >basically who cares if your multicass is uneven and u loose exp from
this,
> >because the exp 'seemed' to be coming in too fast.
cavebear" wrote
> And the point of our replies is that it is unreasonable for a
> single-class character, or multi-class without the XP penalty, to
> reach level 20 by the end of Chapter 2. In fact, under the newest
> patches, it is almost impossible to reach 20 by the end of the entire
> campaign. Thus, it *does* matter if you are receiving an XP penalty
> due to unbalanced classes. Your original reasoning is flawed;
> therefore, your conclusions are invalid and *that's* why we are
> nitpicking.
>
> We're not accusing you of being a "witch"; but, we don't want the
> original poster to come away with bad advice--which is what you are
> offering. Sorry if that offends you, but that's the way it is.
Hi again,
Lol cave bear u are quite a character. Well firstly let me remind u I am
the 'Original Poster' here. It was me who started this thread so that means
I am giving bad advice to myself (hehe). I think I have got the answer I
was seeking anyway, which is since I played last a patch has reduced the
Exp-Reward system, ok that's interesting. The fact that first time I played
NWN I reached level 20 by chapter 2 end is the truth, I didn't cheat or know
of any cheats, just killed everything and re-visited some maps that probably
had 'respawning' monsters, and no matter how much u tell me what u think u
know, it happened, so just get over it, and continue your life.
Anyway I am done with this thread, thanks to anyone who made a post, but we
could have got this wrapped up allot sooner, you could have just said that
the game has changed now (due to patch) and exp is allot harder to get,
therefore Multi-class balance is Important now. .
Oh for the quiet life,
cya,
Wayne ][
Nostromo
*sigh* . o O (I just wish someone would just bring out a mod/hack that
allowed progression past level 20 (if only for multi-class) - before the
bloody expansion!)
--
"The measure of (mental) health is flexibility (not comparison to some 'norm'),
the freedom to learn from experience...to be influenced by reasonable arguments...
and the appeal to the emotions...and especially the freedom to cease when sated.
The essence of illness is the freezing of behavior into unalterable and insatiable
patterns." - Lawrence Kubie
To reply via e-mail *when solicited* and given *express permission*
to do so, please replace 'spamfree' with 'htnirybal'-backwards...
phy
news:asintg$26u$1...@knossos.btinternet.com:
I have finished all the Waterdahvien quests with an elf rogue/wizard and I
am level 5/4. I didn't bother with a lot of the quests. I could see maxing
out by the end of chapter 2. I haven't patched the game though. That might
be why.
-phy
bruc...@alumni.princeton.edu
>
> cavebear <a@b.c> wrote:
> >end of that "dungeon". Or by killing everything, friend and foe alike.
> >You weren't an evil Elf were you?
>
> I don't think that'd work, even. It's not worth the energy to try it, but I
> bet that if you *start* chapter one at level 15 or so, you'll find that the
> CR of all the creatures is so low that you're only getting 2 or 3 xp each.
Don't forget that wizards get more XP than fighters of
equivalent level ... though by level 15 maybe it doesn't
make much difference.
Bruce
Insane Ranter
John Twernbold
> Don't forget that wizards get more XP than fighters of
> equivalent level ...
No, that really has nothing to do with it. As described in a recent thread,
that's only in effect for a early levels and is entirely gone by level 8.
Furthermore, the net XP wouldn't actually be that different, since the OC
uses encounters which are scaled to the level (or "effective level") of the
players. That is, a 3rd-level wizard would be fighting the same monsters as
a 1st-level fighter. But since the XP awarded is based on difficulty level
rather than the actual monster fought, the 3rd-level wizard would get the
same XP for fighting his easier monsters as the 3rd-level fighter who had
beaten tougher monsters.
Finally, it should be noted that a wizard who uses familiars or summoned
creatures will get far less XP than any fighter. This more than compensates
for the small bit of extra XP a wizard may get from the increased
difficulty of placed monsters such as bosses (rather than the more common
difficulty-adjusted "encounters").
Matthew Miller
>Finally, it should be noted that a wizard who uses familiars or summoned
>creatures will get far less XP than any fighter. This more than compensates
Which *isn't* in line with 3e rules -- summoned creatures shouldn't eat XP.
Oh well.
John Twernbold
> Which *isn't* in line with 3e rules
But the summoned creatures last so much longer, and familiar can reappear
once a day. There are many aspects of the PnP which wouldn't have
translated well for one reason or another, so it's natural that changes
were made.
Another change is the aforementioned "effective character level". 3E rules
assume there will be a human DM, and that parties will generally consist of
multiple characters. However, NWN can be played solo and/or without a DM,
and this is one of the many reasons why deviations from the original rules
had to be made.
Wayne Youngman
> Finally, it should be noted that a wizard who uses familiars or summoned
> creatures will get far less XP than any fighter. This more than
compensates
> difficulty of placed monsters such as bosses (rather than the more common
> difficulty-adjusted "encounters").
That's interesting, are u sure thats how its implemented in NWN, what about
hirelings?. Where does it say that summoned creatures and hirelings
subtract from the XP awarded to you?
Wayne ][
Matthew Miller
>But the summoned creatures last so much longer, and familiar can reappear
>once a day. There are many aspects of the PnP which wouldn't have
>translated well for one reason or another, so it's natural that changes
>were made.
Yeah, totally.
>Another change is the aforementioned "effective character level". 3E rules
>assume there will be a human DM, and that parties will generally consist of
>multiple characters. However, NWN can be played solo and/or without a DM,
>and this is one of the many reasons why deviations from the original rules
>had to be made.
The thing they're doing with Witchwork -- no XP at all for combat -- seems
really interesting. I might do that in the module I'm working on.
John Twernbold
> The thing they're doing with Witchwork -- no XP at all for combat --
> seems really interesting. I might do that in the module I'm working
> on.
Yeah, I like that system more than getting 5xp for every monster killed. It
makes a lot more sense.
John Twernbold
> That's interesting, are u sure thats how its implemented in NWN, what
> about hirelings?. Where does it say that summoned creatures and
> hirelings subtract from the XP awarded to you?
They don't; I think you've misunderstood how it works. XP is based on the
battle's difficulty level, and having a summoned creature or familiar (or
even other party members) that is of a significantly different level can
affect the total calculate power of the party. For example, a lone wizard
is fairly weak, and will get a substantial amount of XP from a given
battle. But if he summons a powerful creature, then the strength of his
"party" has greatly increased and the same battle will now result in less
XP. Conversely, a 20th-level wizard might not get much XP from the same
battle, but if he summoned a fairly weak creature it would drag down his
party's strength and result in him gaining more XP. These are extreme
examples; it's usually not much of an issue since parties are often
composed of fairly equal members.
Now, encounters are supposed to scale according to the strength of the
party, and having a summoned creature is supposed to result in the battle
itself being more difficult. In practice, it doesn't quite even out. This
is why people often speak of summoned creatures or familiars as causing
less XP to be awarded.
Siavash Behdashti
Hitting 20 wouldn't be hard if you edited the modules and upped their
xp yield to 200. I think you could hit 20 by the end of chapter2
easily in that way.
Nigel Kearney
I reached level 18 by the end of chapter 2 (Paladin 1 / Sorceror 17).
This was using one of the early versions, before the XP awards
changed. I did prevent my henchman (mostly Grimgnaw) from levelling up
- by dismissing him, levelling up, then picking him up again. I didn't
do anything else questionable though. Having a lower level henchman
definitely increased XP awards significantly.
Level 20 by end of chapter 2 is pushing it though.
Nigel.