Looking for FSX C172 Model with Good Spin Characteristics
AIRMAN85
I'm trying to show my student what a spin would look like in FSX. I
noticed that the default Fligth Simulator X's C172 does not spin
well. It has rather unrealistic stall and spin characteristics. I'm
looking for a free modified C172 download on flightsim.com or
avsim.com, so that I can actually spin C172 on FSX. I would
appreciate it if someone could direct me to the right link.
Thanks.
WayPoint
Hi AirMan
Sorry I can't help you with FSX stuff.
FWIW - if you go to www.youtube.com and use "spin cessna 172" as your
search, there are a number of real life videos that may be helpful.
Other than that - I'll now bow out of this thread.
All the best
Bruce (.au)
Dallas
> It has rather unrealistic stall and spin characteristics. I'm
> looking for a free modified C172 download on flightsim.com or
> avsim.com, so that I can actually spin C172 on FSX.
I'm sorry... you won't find one, it doesn't exist.
Despite the fact that more Cessna 172s have been built than any other
aircraft in history, no developer in the flight sim community has bothered
to make one that is remotely accurate.
No, I'm not being an effete snob... I'm simply a C172 pilot that would
like to have an accurate C172 flight model in the sim and haven't found one
yet, despite having tried every freeware and payware C172 in existence.
There is a payware company, Real Air Simulations with flight models made by
Rob Young that reasonably simulate spins in FS. It's not a C172 but their
Decathlons can teach students which rudder to stomp on.
--
Dallas
PP-SEL C172 C150
boB-Copter6
> On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 22:07:03 -0700 (PDT), AIRMAN85 wrote:
>
>> It has rather unrealistic stall and spin characteristics. I'm
>> looking for a free modified C172 download on flightsim.com or
>> avsim.com, so that I can actually spin C172 on FSX.
>
> I'm sorry... you won't find one, it doesn't exist.
>
> Rob Young that reasonably simulate spins in FS. It's not a C172 but their
> Decathlons can teach students which rudder to stomp on.
>
Hey Dalli. I went to the real air site and they have this text about
their C-172.
Since I only did spins one time in a 152 and can't really remember much
other than the instructor asking, as I pulled out of the spin and added
full power climbing, "what are you doing". I answered that it was so
fun I'm climbing to do another. He called me crazy. I don't think he
liked me. :) The spins were so close to a wing over return to target
maneuver in a Cobra. But better, you didn't have to worry about
maintaining positive power on the main rotor to keep it from mast
bumping which precedes rotor separation.
You have recent experiences with spinning so try it and let me know how
it does. I'm going to try some now.
================================================
From the RealAir Site
Commissioned by the Melbourne based Aerospace Industry Training Centre,
Kangan Batman TAFE, this custom built flight model with custom livery
and sounds is used by the Melbourne Training Centre for ab-initio pilot
training. It will side-slip and spin.
Compatible with: Flight Simulator 2004
Price: Free
Delivery: Download
File Size: 2.4MB
--
==============
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boB-Copter_Six
==============
==============
Bill
"boB-Copter6" <cop...@xxxyahooxxx.vom> wrote in message
news:hamm5n$7oj$1...@news.albasani.net...
I moved the real air C172 to FSX and it works great. Spins are pretty
accurate as well
Bill
Slap
"Bill" <som...@home.net> wrote in message
news:D9Bzm.7196$ua....@en-nntp-05.dc1.easynews.com...
>>
>
> I moved the real air C172 to FSX and it works great. Spins are pretty
> accurate as well
>
> Bill
Good to know. How did you do that? Just copy the files? What files and
where did you put them? I guess I'd have to re-install FS9 and install the
172 there first. Used to fly it all the time back then.
--
dave
Bill
"Slap" <sl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:J7Ezm.26239$Fg7....@newsfe03.iad...
I picked up the entire realairC172 folder and dropped it on the
simobjects\airplanes folder and it loaded up and ran without a hitch.
Running vista but should not affect it
Bill
Danny
http://www.realairsimulations.com/list_box.php?page=downloads
as mentioned, it is designed for FS9 but I too, have used it in FS10. If you
need help installing
it into FS10 let us know.
You also might consider the A2A Piper Cub they just released. You will need
to purchase the plane and the Accu-sim addon for about $45.00 USD I believe.
It has a realistic spin characteristic. Dudley might could comment here
about those characteristics since he helped work on the project.
Danny
"AIRMAN85" <airm...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:bc21ec56-bca4-4862...@12g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
Dallas
> I moved the real air C172 to FSX and it works great. Spins are pretty
> accurate as well
Oh ok... if the RealAir transfers to FSX then that is an option.
Background for Airman85:
The "RealAir C172" is basically the default Microsoft FS9 C172 with a new
ugly paint job, some new sound files (I believe) and enhancements in the
flight model that will allow it to spin and recover fairly accurately.
I don't have an account to a website that will allow me to upload, and you
to download large files (the folder is 20 MB).
Perhaps some kind soul here would do that for Airman85 if he requests it?
--
Dallas
Dallas
> You have recent experiences with spinning so try it and let me know how
> it does. I'm going to try some now.
I tried spins in the RealAir C172 right after it came out (3 years?) and
haven't used it much since then. I recall it "spins" kinda.. feels kind
of herky jerky if I recall.
The fatal flaw with the RealAir C172 is that it's based on the Microsoft
default aircraft which isn't "high quality" as far as add-ons go.
I have tried both/all payware C172s on the market and can't recommend
either of them due to a flaw in the actual 3D model.
--
Dallas
AIRMAN85
I appreciate many of your comments. I downloaded RealAir C172 per
your suggestions and am in the process of getting it to work on FSX.
I just created a folder as directed by their readme file (however
under SimObjects\airplanes folder). It looks to me that the airplane
is not getting recognized by the FSX. I will, however, keep working
at it. Will report back as soon as it starts working and have tested
the spin.
AIRMAN85
using FS2004's model file. I also copied the FSX's C172 panel. Using
FSX's model file, the airplane seems to enter a proper spin with
certain conditions.
1) I had to try very hard to get it into a spin.
a) Full nose-up elevator trim in stall was required to get the
airplane into a continuous stall.
b) During stall, ailerons were very effective.
c) I had to apply full rudder and full ailerons to the same
direction to get the airplane into a spin.
2) The airplane won't stall and spin well above 7000ft MSL.
4) The airplane seemed to get into a spiral easier instead of a spin
if you just apply the rudder input.
5) The inclinometer simulation is inaccurate-- or the airplane's
physics model is sensing something totally different than the way it
is supposed to be. If you spin an airplane with the inclinometer
installed on the left side of the longitudinal axis, the ball will
always go to the left regardless of the direction of the turn.
Given these, I believe that the airplane's stall characteristics
aren't modeled too well. However, I felt that the overall performance
of this airplane was way better than the default FSX C172... One
thing I am not clear about is if using the FSX model folder from C172
will make a huge difference from using the FS2004's C172 model
folder. If anyone knows about this, please advise. Again, I
appreciate all of your help.
boB-Copter6
I got lost. Did you install the Real Air 2004 C0172 and then copied the
Model folder of the FSX C-172 to the Real Air Directory?
Dallas
> 1) I had to try very hard to get it into a spin.
Personally, I had the same opinion, the RealAir 172 "sorta spins" but not
very realistically.
Here's an overall assessment of what you're up against:
MSFS bases its flight dynamics engine on a "table based" system. It's
basically a spreadsheet that allows you to plug in values to create the
desired flight characteristics. The trouble with this kind of system is
that it doesn't accurately simulate air/fluid dynamics under all flight
maneuvers.
The X-Plane product bases its flight dynamics engine on a 3-D geometric
model moving through air "Blade Element Theory". In theory, a far superior
method of simulating flight. In practice, XPlane users report some bizarre
and unrealistic flight behavior on some models too.
I've never used X-Plane, but I'd tend to think it would simulate unusual
maneuvers more accurately than MSFS.
You could find out at no cost by downloading their free demo.
http://www.x-plane.com/pg_downloads.html
--
Dallas
Dallas
Oh.. and I'm unclear as to how you installed the RealAir into FSX, but
you'd need to make sure that their aircraft.cfg and their
RealAirSimulationsC172SP.air files are both being used. (But it does sound
like you did it successfully.)
Also note, RealAir requires the General Realism Slider in the
aircraft/realism menu to be at the full right position for the enhancements
to take effect.
Their install notes say this about spins:
Set up a spin with ANY fuel or passenger loading with approximately neutral
trim. Spins must be entered with stick fully back and full left or right
rudder. This aircraft will continue spinning with full rudder and neutral
elevator. Recovery is immediate upon centering the rudder.
--
Dallas
AIRMAN85
inside the zip file into a folder, then moving it into simobjects/
airplane folder. Since I noticed that there was no model folder, I
copied the model folder from FSX's default C172's folder to the
RealAir's 172 folder. I also copied the default C172's panel folder
to use the FSX panel instead of FS2004 panel that comes with the
RealAir's 172. One strange thing is that I have no sound besides wind
noise even after I copied FSX's default 172 sound files into the sound
folder of RealAir's 172.
I use my FSX with aircraft/realism all the way to the right, so there
shouldn't be an issue.
With the elevator trim neutral, I am having difficulties keeping the
airplane in stall. To me the effectiveness of the elevator is little
weak. I don't really get the full stall. If I put the rudder input
without getting a break in the stall, the airplane gets into a spiral
rather than a spin.
I am going to keep experimenting with this airplane just a little bit
more.
Dallas
> Since I noticed that there was no model folder, I
> copied the model folder from FSX's default C172's
Very good.. that gets rid of the ugly assed RealAir paint job. :- )
Your installation sounds viable and I would think the sound should work.
I'd bet if you copied all the files from C:\Program Files\Microsoft
Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\SimObjects\Airplanes\C172\sound
into the sound folder of the RealAir 172 you could at least get the FSX
default sound to work.
BTW I like what you're doing.. since the PTS don't require spins anymore,
I think it's a great idea to do it on the sim.
Even if the FS spins are not all that accurate, if you can imprint the
recovery steps into your future pilots muscle memory, they might do the
right thing automatically in a panic.
--
Dallas
Dallas
> To me the effectiveness of the elevator is little
> weak. I don't really get the full stall.
Try tweaking the flight dynamics in the RealAir's aircraft.cfg file...
after all, the simulator engine changed slightly from FS9 to FSX and it
might need the change.
Back up the aircraft.cfg file then open it in your text editor. Search
for:
elevator_effectiveness=1.0
Change the value to something like:
elevator_effectiveness=1.2
Save it and go back to the sim and reload the aircraft... you don't have
to restart the sim after the change, just reload. Keep changing it until
it feels right.
And, there is a second value you can play with too:
elevator_area=16.6 //Square feet
--
Dallas