Night Lighting - sometimes too bright

[peter greenstein]

I've noticed that some of my planes seem to have brighter lights
illuminating the runway at night. For example, the Dash 7 (originally from
Milton Shupe) that has been updated on flightsim.com. On a dark night, from
my cockpit view there is an almost blinding amount of light in front of me.
I can barely see down the runway. If I change over to the default 737 the
light is more natural.

I can't quite see which part of the aircraft.cfg file controls this
particular lighting.

Any suggestions?

peter


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---

[dane.b...@nonsense.com]

On Wed, 2 Jan 2013 09:48:32 -0800, "peter greenstein"
<pgre...@comcast.net> wrote:

>I've noticed that some of my planes seem to have brighter lights
>illuminating the runway at night. For example, the Dash 7 (originally from
>Milton Shupe) that has been updated on flightsim.com. On a dark night, from
>my cockpit view there is an almost blinding amount of light in front of me.
>I can barely see down the runway. If I change over to the default 737 the
>light is more natural.
>
>I can't quite see which part of the aircraft.cfg file controls this
>particular lighting.
>
>Any suggestions?
>
>peter
>
>

The section is [lights] and it has a set list of 'switches' (from 1 to
10)

1 Beacon
2 Strobe
3 Navigation or Position
4 Cockpit
5 Landing
6 Taxi
7 Recognition
8 Wing
9 Logo
10 Cabin

The actual 'lights' should be in the "Effects" folder.

[peter greenstein]

Thanks Dane,

Which line controls the lights that light up the view ahead? No. 5,
"Landing"? Can I adjust the intensity?

peter



wrote in message news:bmu8e8t93t7nht4qj...@4ax.com...

[dane.b...@nonsense.com]

On Wed, 2 Jan 2013 10:43:25 -0800, "peter greenstein"
<pgre...@comcast.net> wrote:

>Thanks Dane,
>
>Which line controls the lights that light up the view ahead? No. 5,
>"Landing"? Can I adjust the intensity?
>
>peter
>
>

No, you can't adjust the intensity. But what you might be able to do
is use the No. 5 light from the 737. ( Replace the No 5 line)
Good Luck !!

[peter greenstein]

Thanks again, Dane.

This is really weird. I've tried changing that line to the one from the
default 737 with no change in the effect. I've tried effects files from
other aircraft.

Then I tried removing the entire "[Lights]" section and though there are no
green, red or blue "marker" lights on the wings, there is still some sort of
default fsx lights that illuminate the runway in front of the plane. And
they are blazingly bright. The interior VC panel will light up with what I
assume is some sort of default fsx interior lighting. There's no problem
with that.

If I go back to other aircraft, most but not all exhibit natural landing
lights. Maybe there's some sort of conflict but I have no idea what it could
come from.

I'm about to just give up on this one.

peter



wrote in message news:pg09e8h1rhdo7ddod...@4ax.com...

[nm...@wt.net]

On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 11:48:32 AM UTC-6, pete_g wrote:
> I've noticed that some of my planes seem to have brighter lights
>
> illuminating the runway at night. For example, the Dash 7 (originally from
>
> Milton Shupe) that has been updated on flightsim.com. On a dark night, from
>
> my cockpit view there is an almost blinding amount of light in front of me.
>
> I can barely see down the runway. If I change over to the default 737 the
>
> light is more natural.
>
>
>
> I can't quite see which part of the aircraft.cfg file controls this
>
> particular lighting.
>
>
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
>
> peter
>

Hummm. Sounds like they used some different type of lighting.
I might have to grab that plane just to check it out.
Normally.. I think the stock FSX landing lights are way too
weak. And don't focus out in front, with weaker light on the
sides, like you would expect. To me, most look equally dim
no matter where you look. It's like they are taxi lights
instead of actual landing lights.
The 737NGX is the first plane I've run that actually had
half decent looking landing lights. But they are a different
type using some proprietary scheme. And I think they are
using what FSX thinks are landing lights to act as taxi lights.
I couldn't speculate on a cure until I saw what they are using,
but it could be an effect. And it might also could be smoke
related, but I don't know if they use smoke for landing lights.
I know some use smoke for VC lighting, etc for some planes.
With the 737NGX, I have the usual two level dome light selection
on the overhead, but I can also hit "I" for smoke, it and will
give me a real bright instant dome light. :)

I think I'll grab that plane later.. I'm curious to see what
they look like and what they did. The NGX landing lights actually
have bright beams you can see like you would normally expect.
But they are not so bright to wash out the pavement.

I wish someone could make landing lights that show on clouds..
I hate the constant darkness I see when flying through clouds
below 10k. But being as the NGX lights seem to light ground
objects, there must be some quirk with FSX and cloud rendering
to make it not work on those.

Maybe Prepare3d could do that some day...

[peter greenstein]

Thank you, nm5k, for you thoughts on this. I did jump back and forth between
my problem a/c, dash7pkgx.zip (flightsim.com), and the default 737, and yes,
I can see that the default FSX lights are, as you say, unrealistically
faint. But by contrast, at least on my setup, I'm getting rather blinded by
the foreground in front of me with the Dash 7. I can't see down the runway.
BTW, I'm taking off and landing from KIMT in northern Michigan with present
weather, albeit in the dark of night.

I wonder if changing parameters in the line for lights5 will change the
position of the landing lights? Maybe that would direct the beams more
straight ahead than pointed down at too extreme an angle. However, the
oddity for me was that removing the entire [LIGHTS] section left the runway
lighting in place!?!

One thing I'm not completely clear on in your statement below. After you say
that the 737NGX uses some proprietary scheme for the lights, your next
sentence begins, "And I think they are using what FSX thinks are landing
lights to act as taxi lights." Are you still referring to the 737NGX?

thanks for any ideas,
peter


----------------------------
wrote in message
news:f2cbcb9e-ef92-45a6...@googlegroups.com...

[MikeW]

peter greenstein wrote:

>
> thanks for any ideas,
> peter
>
>

Peter,

I mostly fly FS9, so what I say here will of course be about that sim,
however, I think the same will apply to FSX, if that's the sim you are
flying in.

The landing lights in/on the AIRCRAFT, funny enough, have *nothing to do*
with the lights you see on the RUNWAY. All the lights on the aircraft can,
as already mentioned, be altered/tweaked in the lights section of the
aircraft .cfg file. The lights you see on the runway, called runway splash
lights, are part of the "model" and cannot be tweaked by us mortals.

Having said that, in some aircraft, like the C130, you can alter the landing
lights direction, left, right, up and down with the numeric pad on your
keyboard. HTH
--
MikeW
Shrewsbury, UK
Gravity never loses! The best you can hope for is a draw!

[sambodidley]

"peter greenstein" <pgre...@comcast.net> wrote

I'm getting rather blinded by
> the foreground in front of me with the Dash 7. I can't see down the
> runway. BTW, I'm taking off and landing from KIMT in northern Michigan
> with present weather, albeit in the dark of night.
>
> I wonder if changing parameters in the line for lights5 will change the
> position of the landing lights? Maybe that would direct the beams more
> straight ahead than pointed down at too extreme an angle.

The "Landing Lights" on most real planes are not intended to illuminate
the runway from end to end while on the ground. They are designed to
illuminate the landing area of the runway on the final while landing. They
are directed downward for that purpose. If they were directed more upward as
you seem to prefer they would be of no use at all for landing. Once you are
on the runway you should turn them off and turn on your taxi lights if you
have them. If you have any FSX sim planes that have "Landing Lights" that
illuminate the full length of the runway while on the ground then they are
certainly not realistic. <g>
Sam

[sambodidley]

"MikeW" <Mi...@spammenot.con> wrote in > Having said that, in some aircraft,

like the C130, you can alter the landing
> lights direction, left, right, up and down with the numeric pad on your
> keyboard. HTH
> --
> MikeW

In which case, it is no longer a "Landing Light" but is now a search
spot light. I had one of those on my Olds 88.<g>
Sam

[MikeW]

peter greenstein wrote:
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>>
>>
>> peter
>>
>

Forgot to add. Your problem with the splash lights, Peter, has been
discussed a couple of times before, have a look here......

http://www.gamesforum.ca/archive/index.php/t-536728.html


--
MikeW
Shrewsbury, UK
Try to keep the number of your landings equal to the number of your
takeoffs.

[MikeW]

sambodidley wrote:

>
> In which case, it is no longer a "Landing Light" but is now a
> search spot light. I had one of those on my Olds 88.<g>
> Sam

Whatever! :-)
--
MikeW
Shrewsbury, UK
Keep thy airspeed up, less the earth come from below and smite thee.

[sambodidley]

"MikeW" <Mi...@spammenot.con> wrote in message
news:RoCdnXsSxsQtR3nN...@bt.com...

> peter greenstein wrote:
>>> Any suggestions?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> peter
>>>
>>
>
> Forgot to add. Your problem with the splash lights, Peter, has been
> discussed a couple of times before, have a look here......
>
> http://www.gamesforum.ca/archive/index.php/t-536728.html
>
>
> --
> MikeW

Mike,
As for my self, if the runway has well lighted approach and boundary
lights, I prefer to land without "Landing Lights". I have landed a real J3
Cub at night on such a runway with no lights at all on the plane. Not even
panel lights. Strictly 100 percent seat of the pants landing. Same
preference for takeoff. They can be useful for landing at airports with
obstructions in the approach glide path. I'd never use them on a sim plane
in FSX, though.
Sam

[peter greenstein]

Thank you, Mike. This explains why removing the entire [LIGHTS] section from
aircraft.cfg had no effect. The first two examples of this problem I found
were from old FS9 models (a Dash 7 and a Dash 8) ported over to FSX.

Too bad.

peter


"MikeW" wrote in message news:fJmdnUjyysbGS3nN...@bt.com...

[nm...@wt.net]

On Wednesday, January 2, 2013 9:49:01 PM UTC-6, pete_g wrote:
> Thank you, Mike. This explains why removing the entire [LIGHTS] section from
>
> aircraft.cfg had no effect. The first two examples of this problem I found
>
> were from old FS9 models (a Dash 7 and a Dash 8) ported over to FSX.
>
>
>
> Too bad.

I tried that plane, and those lights they used are silly..
Way too bright, and looked pretty danged weird..
If you turn off the landing lights, you get the usual stock
FSX landing light look, so that's probably the easiest
work around.
Those lights aren't even in the same league as the NGX
landing lights, which look totally different.
Also, yep, it's the NGX that uses FSX landing lights for
taxi lights.
Just flew from KHOU to KBNA.."Southwest 3586" Whooosh..
Can't beat a 140+ knot tailwind.
Glad I wasn't going the other way... :|

[Iain Smith]

Yes that certainly used to be the case but payware developers have found
a way of making the aircraft landing and taxi lights actually light up
dark areas such that you can see what is there, just as if it was a real
light. PMDG have achieved this with their 737NGX.

I don't know how they do it but it's a programming thing, not as simple
as changing something in the cfg file. Developers like PMDG write their
own code which operates out side of Flight Sim but in concert with it.
With the aircraft you have you're stuck with the effect.

Iain
Rugby, UK

[peter greenstein]

Thank you, Ian.
peter



"Iain Smith" wrote in message
news:Tq6dnek_Ufi75XjN...@bt.com...

[Pointer]

"MikeW" <Mi...@spammenot.con> wrote in message
news:RoCdnXsSxsQtR3nN...@bt.com...

Carry on posting Mike W, I enjoy your sigs!
Invite you to take a peep at my 'Smile' page on www.cheshirefalcons.co.uk
for some more appropriate one liners! :-)
Cheers
P

[MikeW]

sambodidley wrote:
>
> Mike,
> As for my self, if the runway has well lighted approach and
> boundary lights, I prefer to land without "Landing Lights". I have
> landed a real J3 Cub at night on such a runway with no lights at all
> on the plane. Not even panel lights. Strictly 100 percent seat of
> the pants landing. Same preference for takeoff. They can be useful
> for landing at airports with obstructions in the approach glide path.
> I'd never use them on a sim plane in FSX, though.
> Sam

Not being a RW pilot, I assumed all aircraft turned on their landing lights,
day or night, to let others know that they were landing. Thinking about it,
I cannot recall seeing any aircraft landing that didn't have their landing
lights on. Of course, if the aircraft has no lights fitted, such as the Cub,
then obviously they wouldn't show. :-)

--
MikeW
Shrewsbury, UK
A pilot who doesn't have any fear probably isn't flying his plane to its
maximum.

[MikeW]

Pointer wrote:
> Carry on posting Mike W, I enjoy your sigs!
> Invite you to take a peep at my 'Smile' page on
> www.cheshirefalcons.co.uk for some more appropriate one liners! :-)
> Cheers
> P

Nice site.
--
MikeW
Shrewsbury, UK
Life is simple. Eat, sleep, fly.

[nm...@wt.net]

On Thursday, January 3, 2013 6:04:51 PM UTC-6, MikeW wrote:

> Not being a RW pilot, I assumed all aircraft turned on their landing lights,
>
> day or night, to let others know that they were landing. Thinking about it,
>
> I cannot recall seeing any aircraft landing that didn't have their landing
>
> lights on. Of course, if the aircraft has no lights fitted, such as the Cub,
>
> then obviously they wouldn't show. :-)

In the land of the 737, it's usually a 10,000 ft thang.. On for takeoff, and
up to 10k, and visa versa coming down.. I combine it with the other 10k
checks, like pressurization, start switches, APU, etc..

[Danny]

Yeah, but Sam....that J3 Cub flies so slow it will just barely kill you.













"sambodidley" wrote in message news:kc2pat$8fa$1...@dont-email.me...

[sambodidley]

<nm...@wt.net> wrote in message
news:3cf19499-72d9-48c9...@googlegroups.com...

Is that the current FAA reg for a 737? I fly all my sim planes by the
CAA regs that were in existence at the time I was flying. That is, if I fly
them by any at all. Mostly I don't. Takes up too much of my simming time.
<g>
Sam

[John Ward]

Hi Pointer,

That's a great website for Radio Controlled flying enthusiasts, mate.

Thanks for the link.

Regards,
John Ward

"Pointer" <Point...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:TEiFs.1039997$Rc7.3...@fx04.am4...

[nm...@wt.net]

Don't know if it's an FAA reg, but seems to be the usual standard
procedure. I know all the flights I see coming over have the
lights on even when still pretty high.
You can hear them clicking them off on the real world Southwest
takeoff and departure I posted a while back. When they pass 10k,
the plane starts to nose down to build speed, and you can hear
the clicks of the lights being flipped off, and then he does
the checklist.
Then the reverse when descending through 10k.

[sambodidley]

<nm...@wt.net> wrote in message
news:f6a427bb-914d-41dd...@googlegroups.com...

You can "hear" lights being clicked on and off on a plane flying at 10K?
Dang! Your hearing is a lot better than mine.<g>
Sam

[nm...@wt.net]

On Friday, January 4, 2013 1:15:19 PM UTC-6, sambodidley wrote:

> You can "hear" lights being clicked on and off on a plane flying at 10K?
>
> Dang! Your hearing is a lot better than mine.<g>
>
> Sam

Sure, but I know what they sound like. Every switch on the NGX
uses it's own sound, which is an actual recording of that switch.
And yes, my hearing is very good. Even now that I'm in my 50's.
I could hear very high frequencies when young, and I can still
hear fairly high pitches for my age, I suspect.
When I'm out at my dirt patch, I can hear everything within
about 200+ feet around me. There is no way anyone could ever
sneak up on me. I can hear every twig and leaf crunch from
anyone in the area. I can hear the deer in the woods when
they are prowling around. They can't avoid the leaves on the
ground. Crunch.... crunch... crunch crunch..
A person walking through the woods would sound like 95 DB to me..

[sambodidley]

<nm...@wt.net> wrote

sambodidley wrote:
>
>> You can "hear" lights being clicked on and off on a plane flying at
>> 10K?
>>
>> Dang! Your hearing is a lot better than mine.<g>
>>
>> Sam
>
> Sure, but I know what they sound like. Every switch on the NGX
> uses it's own sound, which is an actual recording of that switch.

Oh, you were talking about "recordings" of a switch sound in a "sim"
plane. I thought you meant you could hear the actual switch click on a real
plane flying over you at 10K. That's how I read your post. My bad.:-)
Sure, I can hear those recording clicks on my sim plane. too. I can just
turn up the volume as needed. I seldom ever notice anything like that,
though. I'm usually too busy flying my plane to listen or look for
simulated trivia. <g>
Sam

[nm...@wt.net]

On Friday, January 4, 2013 2:14:24 PM UTC-6, sambodidley wrote:

>
> Oh, you were talking about "recordings" of a switch sound in a "sim"
>
> plane. I thought you meant you could hear the actual switch click on a real
>
> plane flying over you at 10K. That's how I read your post. My bad.:-)
>
> Sure, I can hear those recording clicks on my sim plane. too. I can just
>
> turn up the volume as needed. I seldom ever notice anything like that,
>
> though. I'm usually too busy flying my plane to listen or look for
>
> simulated trivia. <g>
>
> Sam

I meant that I could hear them in this video, even though the
camera didn't show him reaching up and flipping the switches.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH0A41Q75c8

[TOCA]

"peter greenstein" <pgre...@comcast.net> skrev i meddelelsen
news:kc1rtf$nk$1...@adenine.netfront.net...

> I've noticed that some of my planes seem to have brighter lights
> illuminating the runway at night. For example, the Dash 7 (originally from
> Milton Shupe) that has been updated on flightsim.com. On a dark night,
> from my cockpit view there is an almost blinding amount of light in front
> of me. I can barely see down the runway. If I change over to the default
> 737 the light is more natural.
>
> I can't quite see which part of the aircraft.cfg file controls this
> particular lighting.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> peter
>

I've never seen any MSFS plane making realistic lights, neither taxi nor
landing lights are looking natural :o/

But looking at the real world airlines coming in over where I live for
landings at EKCH, I can tell that there are different types of lamps.
Normally they turn on the landing lights about a mile out from here, and
some looks like they have two jars with a candle in each, while others seems
to have harvested the sun it self and lights up the entire sky ahead of
them, from here and all 4 miles to the RW 12, and then there's every thing
in between, I'm not talking GA here they are all airline cargo or passenger
haulers from Dash 8's to 777's.

So what you are experiencing, I guess, is just about "as real as it gets" in
an old computer simulator?

Tommy C, Denmark

[peter greenstein]

Well, maybe sort of real with an outside view?

But it would seem to be too dangerous for a real world pilot to be this
blinded by the view ahead. All I see of the runway is a few feet.


-- peter greenstein
http://wakefieldjazz.com/




------------------------
"TOCA" wrote in message
news:50e7d53e$0$56781$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...

while others seems
to have harvested the sun it self and lights up the entire sky ahead of
them, from here and all 4 miles to the RW 12, and then there's every thing
in between, I'm not talking GA here they are all airline cargo or passenger
haulers from Dash 8's to 777's.

So what you are experiencing, I guess, is just about "as real as it gets" in
an old computer simulator?

Tommy C, Denmark

[sambodidley]

"peter greenstein" <pgre...@comcast.net> wrote

> Well, maybe sort of real with an outside view?
>
> But it would seem to be too dangerous for a real world pilot to be this
> blinded by the view ahead. All I see of the runway is a few feet.
>
>
> -- peter greenstein
> http://wakefieldjazz.com/

Yep, that's why real pilots don't use them like automobile head lights
when they are on the ground. They weren't designed to be used that way.
That's what taxi lights are for. "Landing Lights" are for "Landing".
Sam

[peter greenstein]

Oh, my! Thank you. I guess I never noticed that there is a way to turn off
the landing lights and leave the taxi lights on!

peter


"sambodidley" wrote in message news:kc9kfb$bqc$4...@dont-email.me...

[sambodidley]

"peter greenstein" <pgre...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:kc9q1q$6bo$1...@adenine.netfront.net...

> Oh, my! Thank you. I guess I never noticed that there is a way to turn
> off the landing lights and leave the taxi lights on!
>
> peter

You're welcome. Crtl+L on the keyboard toggles the landing lights off
or on while leaving the others on. <g>
Sam

[MikeW]

peter greenstein wrote:
> Oh, my! Thank you. I guess I never noticed that there is a way to
> turn off the landing lights and leave the taxi lights on!
>
> peter
>

There are active switches for all the lights in the cockpit of the Dash8 (in
FS9)......

Landing lights
Taxi lights
Wing inspection
Strobe Lights
Logo Lights
Panel lights

......as there are in most aircraft.

The panel lights are above the APU Control, not highlighted.

Here is the location of the light switches in the Dash8, in FS9, I'm sure
you will find the same or similar in FSX.

http://www.picfront.org/d/8UAo


--
MikeW
Shrewsbury, UK
Any attempt to stretch fuel is guaranteed to increase headwind.

[peter greenstein]

Thank you for the pic, Mike. This is finally (!) clear to me, now.

I found the different switches for "landing" and "taxi" lights in the Dash 7
I'm working with right now (the one updated from an old model originally by
Milton Shupe and others). But which Dash 8 are you referring to? The
Dreamwings, PSS, or Premier Aircraft Design version? A Dash 8-300 or 8-400?

-- peter greenstein
http://wakefieldjazz.com/

"MikeW" wrote in message news:O-adnYei3rbp-3TN...@bt.com...
----------------------------------------------------------------------

There are active switches for all the lights in the cockpit of the Dash8 (in
FS9)......

Landing lights
Taxi lights
Wing inspection
Strobe Lights
Logo Lights
Panel lights

......as there are in most aircraft.

The panel lights are above the APU Control, not highlighted.

Here is the location of the light switches in the Dash8, in FS9, I'm sure
you will find the same or similar in FSX.

http://www.picfront.org/d/8UAo


--
MikeW
Shrewsbury, UK
Any attempt to stretch fuel is guaranteed to increase headwind.

[MikeW]

peter greenstein wrote:
> Thank you for the pic, Mike. This is finally (!) clear to me, now.
>
> I found the different switches for "landing" and "taxi" lights in the
> Dash 7 I'm working with right now (the one updated from an old model
> originally by Milton Shupe and others). But which Dash 8 are you
> referring to? The Dreamwings, PSS, or Premier Aircraft Design
> version? A Dash 8-300 or 8-400?

It's the Dreamwings Dash8 Q400.
Model designer Tommy Hansson
Livery by David Schultz

Someone posted it here a few months ago and I thought I would see what it's
like. Nice.........

--
MikeW
Shrewsbury, UK
There are two kinds of helicopter pilots: those that have flown the Huey
and those that wish they could have.

[sambodidley]

"MikeW" <Mi...@spammenot.con> wrote

> There are active switches for all the lights in the cockpit of the Dash8
> (in FS9)......
>
> Landing lights
> Taxi lights
> Wing inspection
> Strobe Lights
> Logo Lights
> Panel lights
>
> ......as there are in most aircraft.
>
> The panel lights are above the APU Control, not highlighted.
>
> Here is the location of the light switches in the Dash8, in FS9, I'm sure
> you will find the same or similar in FSX.
>
> http://www.picfront.org/d/8UAo
>
>
> --
> MikeW

As I stated before, I never use landing lights on a sim plane in FSX,
but since all this discussion on them I decided to check out some of them
on the planes in my hanger. What I have discovered is that on most small GA
sim planes the landing lights are little more than barely adequate taxi
lights. They offer very little aid at all when landing a plane. I haven't
missed a thing by not using them. Since I never fly the twins or jets I
don't care much what they might have so I didn't bother to look at them.. I
don't even use the panel lights unless they are dim. Bright ones just blind
me. Most of the planes I have flown didn't have any. Just glow dope on the
indicators I could see in the dark. I seldom fly a sim plane at night
anyhow so all this is just academic as far as I'm concerned. I can barely
see well enough to fly one in the bright daylight.<g>
Sam

[peter greenstein]

Is that Dreamwings Dash 8-400 the one with no VC? I guess that's the only
reason I ended up settling on the Premier Aircraft Design version.

BTW, I tried to fine tune mine a bit with some of the climb characteristics
described by a test pilot here:
http://cf.alpa.org/internet/alp/1999/mayQ400.htm. I can't remember how much
on this I check with your Dreamwings version but you might take a look and
see.

peter






"MikeW" wrote in message news:WrudnTiSD_TaAnTN...@bt.com...

[MikeW]

peter greenstein wrote:
> Is that Dreamwings Dash 8-400 the one with no VC? I guess that's the
> only reason I ended up settling on the Premier Aircraft Design
> version.

Yes, that's the one.
--
MikeW
Shrewsbury, UK
Be nice to your first officer, he may be your captain at your next airline.