DH Dash 7 for FSX (Milton Shupe's freeware)

[Walt_M]

Base model:
http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/fslib.php?do=copyright&fid=170472

Stacks of liveries here:
http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/fslib.php?searchid=12221092

And Buttsie, I figure your FS9 Newmans livery might just work on these
as well.

[Walt_M]

And if the props don't look right, here's the fix for that:
http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/fslib.php?do=copyright&fid=130634

[donbutts]

> And Buttsie, I figure your FS9 Newmans livery might just work on these
> as well.

> And if the props don't look right, here's the fix for that:
> http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/fslib.php?do=copyright&fid=130634

I checked earlier the description which was FS9 model injected into FSX . I
have never been happy with any of the conversions so far so haven't
considered it at this point
I would say that the new Dash 8 will be superior - but actually I have a
download of the base 7 going so I will check it out

Now would anyone care to comment on the landing at the end of this video?
Maybe its Asiana Airlines piloted and coming in flat under the glideslope
except for a last minute Y/f3 raise correction :-) ... should have been
done at SanFran


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svpwMruoEzc

Butts

[Walt_M]

On Tue, 9 Jul 2013 17:25:55 +1200, "donbutts"
<donneybutts...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > And Buttsie, I figure your FS9 Newmans livery might just work on these
> > as well.
>
> > And if the props don't look right, here's the fix for that:
> > http://www.flightsim.com/vbfs/fslib.php?do=copyright&fid=130634
>
> I checked earlier the description which was FS9 model injected into FSX . I
> have never been happy with any of the conversions so far so haven't

> considered it at this point.

I should not have posted this till I'd tested it myself. Now that I
have, I'm not happy with it either. :-(((

[Pete_G]

Last December I started a thread on freeware Dash 7's. I did settle on the
updated Milton Shupe model. What's bothering you guys about it? With a
little editing I do find it pretty acceptable. I increased the prop thrust
and engine power scalar 10% to come closer to some cruise speed charts I saw
somewhere.

My only complaint is the way the nose comes way up when flaps are lowered.
It's possible that this happens in the RW, maybe just not this much. I just
make sure I lower the nose before hitting the F7 key. I reduced the flap
lift scalar a bit. On Approach I'm able to hold the speed at 100kts, then
85kts. Full flaps (32 deg) seems to create too much lift and I don't use
unless the plane is pretty heavy (40K lbs).

-- Pete_G
http://wakefieldjazz.com/



"Walt_M" wrote in message
news:6jcnt8990a3qki404...@4ax.com...

[donbutts]

> "Pete_G" wrote in message news:krk50g$nh8$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> Last December I started a thread on freeware Dash 7's. I did settle on the
> updated Milton Shupe model. What's bothering you guys about it? With a
> little editing I do find it pretty acceptable.

Well I've just installed it and hey it's pretty good - I'm quite happy with
gauge resolution.
Flies nicely and even rotates by itself when trim is set on 'take off.'
Got no internal views at this stage apart from Capt VC so I've got to
orientate myself and find out why.

Butts

[Walt_M]

Well, in that case, I'll play with it some more, Peter.

I admit I only did the one flight and i didn't like the way it few the
approach, so maybe the problem was with me.

I had the FS9 version of the same plane and I quite liked it then, so
I guess it's worth another look.

Thanks for your feedback.



On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 10:18:12 -0700, "Pete_G" <pgre...@comcast.net>
wrote:

[Walt_M]

On Thu, 11 Jul 2013 09:23:24 +1000, Walt_M <walt...@live.com> wrote:


What most like about this plane is it is incredibly good at STOL.
That's why I do not compare it to the Dash 8

[Pete_G]

I think I've seen this happen with other fs9 conversions, losing the
internal cabin views. I have no idea if it can be fixed.

pete_g



"donbutts" wrote in message news:krkndf$9pb$1...@dont-email.me...

[donbutts]

"Pete_G" wrote in message news:krkqv0$j65$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

I think I've seen this happen with other fs9 conversions, losing the
internal cabin views. I have no idea if it can be fixed.

pete_g

I take it you haven't got the other views either Pete

Butts

[Pete_G]

Yes, Don, no cabin views here, either.

I agree, it's disappointing. Same problem with some other fs9 conversions
and I have no idea how to get them back. Good luck!

And as Walt is remembering better handling on Approach, I think this is
another problem with fs9 conversions: FSX handles wing lift differently.
Adjusting cruise and flap lift can help and in worse cases, I'd look into
the airfile. But I think this one's not bad and maybe I'd even say it seems
somewhat natural/realistic to my un-expert experience. Now there may be a
number of different stages of update floating around so we can't be sure
that you, Walt and I are actually working with exactly the same model.

pete_g


-- Pete_G
http://wakefieldjazz.com/



"donbutts" wrote in message news:krl3u2$vbe$1...@dont-email.me...

[donbutts]

> "Pete_G" wrote in message news:krl68g$a4q$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> Yes, Don, no cabin views here, either.

How about the passenger cabin view which is shown in 'view file' ?

Butts

[Walt_M]

On Thu, 11 Jul 2013 14:11:38 +1200, "donbutts"
<donneybutts...@hotmail.com> wrote:


> I take it you haven't got the other views either Pete

Which file did you D/L: DASH7PKGX.ZIP or D7VCMDLA.ZIP ?

I downloaded and installed DASH7PKGX.ZIP and I've got the VC, I've got
all the 2D copckpit views.

And if you D/L any additional textures, make sure they're for
DASH7PKGX.ZIP.

HTH

[donbutts]

"Walt_M" wrote in message
news:2scst8th9cbrifp4o...@4ax.com...

I've got the 2D views OK Walt
I did notice the extra texture package
I'm just flying Paro in the Dash 7 and all so easy now

[Pete_G]

OK, yes, my Dash 7 is DASH7PKGX.ZIP, the aircraft.cfg file begins with a
version date of December, 2012.

Walt, the VC views are of the cockpit dashboard, but what's missing are
views back to the seating area. At least as pictured in accompanying image
files in this package. Are you still running fs9? They probably should show
up in that environment. I think they have to be modeled/incorporated
differently in fsx.

pete_g




"Walt_M" wrote in message
news:2scst8th9cbrifp4o...@4ax.com...

[Walt_M]

On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 22:29:53 -0700, "Pete_G" <pgre...@comcast.net>
wrote:

> OK, yes, my Dash 7 is DASH7PKGX.ZIP, the aircraft.cfg file begins with a
> version date of December, 2012.
>
> Walt, the VC views are of the cockpit dashboard, but what's missing are
> views back to the seating area. At least as pictured in accompanying image
> files in this package. Are you still running fs9? They probably should show
> up in that environment. I think they have to be modeled/incorporated
> differently in fsx.

I'm flying FSX for this one, Peter. In VC mode I can only see a
slant view of the front of the seating area. I have no idea how the
accompanying image was obained.

[donbutts]

"Pete_G" wrote in message news:krlfsf$rtl$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> Walt, the VC views are of the cockpit dashboard, but what's missing are
> views back to the seating area. At least as pictured in accompanying image
> files in this package. Are you still running fs9? They probably should
> show up in that environment. I think they have to be modeled/incorporated
> differently in fsx.

If you look at this video the passenger compartment shows up so the answer
is secreted at this stage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svpwMruoEzc

However if you want a whole lot of interior views here we go:-

http://simviation.com/1/download-file?file=Dash7-Cameras.zip&fileId=42660

Butts
NZ

[Pete_G]

Walt,

With Butts' suggested download of "camera views" I do see a view looking
back at the cabin seating area. Sft-E opens the door and you can see that
from this interior view. But it took a few keyboard clicks to appear. I
think I have to start with an outside view, hit 'A' a few times, then 'S',
then 'A' again, or something like that to start getting extra camera views.
Well, it's sort of worth all this extra effort!

Main thing is the plane.

BTW, the world of reality television is ever expanding and re-inventing
itself. Some will grab some of our attention for awhile, then if enough
people tire of it it's gone and a new one must be created to take its place.
Because it's CABLE you don't need to grab a gazillion viewers. That's a plus
in that we can get a few shows that are actually about airplanes, from
Alaska flying to airplane accidents. Subjects that appeal to you or I but
not to giant numbers of viewers.

New shows are created out of thin air.I had no idea that there is show about
airplane repossession ("Airplane Repo")! I kid you not. I watched a finance
company sending a team consisting of some pilots and a mechanic around the
world to steal back a $48 million dollar A320 airbus.


-- Pete_G
http://wakefieldjazz.com/



"Walt_M" wrote in message
news:3ahst8d99dh3cdll4...@4ax.com...

[Walt_M]

On Fri, 12 Jul 2013 06:15:08 -0700, "Pete_G" <pgre...@comcast.net>
wrote:

> With Butts' suggested download of "camera views" I do see a view looking
> back at the cabin seating area. Sft-E opens the door and you can see that
> from this interior view. But it took a few keyboard clicks to appear. I
> think I have to start with an outside view, hit 'A' a few times, then 'S',
> then 'A' again, or something like that to start getting extra camera views.
> Well, it's sort of worth all this extra effort!
>
> Main thing is the plane.

Yes.

The plane! The plane! ;-)

I like flying the Dash 7, but I get a bit annoyed by what I call its
"floatiness" and "driftiness" on approach with autopilot off.

It's almost as sexy at STOL landings as a Caribou. :-)))

> BTW, the world of reality television is ever expanding and re-inventing
> itself. Some will grab some of our attention for awhile, then if enough
> people tire of it it's gone and a new one must be created to take its place.
> Because it's CABLE you don't need to grab a gazillion viewers. That's a plus
> in that we can get a few shows that are actually about airplanes, from
> Alaska flying to airplane accidents. Subjects that appeal to you or I but
> not to giant numbers of viewers.
>
> New shows are created out of thin air.I had no idea that there is show about
> airplane repossession ("Airplane Repo")! I kid you not. I watched a finance
> company sending a team consisting of some pilots and a mechanic around the
> world to steal back a $48 million dollar A320 airbus.

Those shows end up as late-night "fillers" on our "free-to-air"
channels over here.

I remember watching a few episodes of Airplane Repo. I half expected
them to morph into something akin to The Bourne Conspiracy. lol.

[Pete_G]

"Walt_M" wrote in message
news:0110u85itqvoocug0...@4ax.com...

>> Main thing is the plane.

>Yes.

>The plane! The plane! ;-)

>I like flying the Dash 7, but I get a bit annoyed by what I call its
>"floatiness" and "driftiness" on approach with autopilot off.

>It's almost as sexy at STOL landings as a Caribou. :-)))

Hmm. I think there is too much lift somewhere. I went ahead and reduced
flaps lift 20%, down to 0.8.

Also, how heavy is your plane when you're "floating" down? I will say this:
I don't like using full flaps unless the plane is very heavy. Otherwise
there's too much lift and the nose has to be held down so much that, well,
it just doesn't look right to my eye.

pete_g

[donbutts]

> there's too much lift and the nose has to be held down so much that, well,
> it just doesn't look right to my eye.

> pete_g

My craft was flying a noticeable horizontal descent if there's such a thing.
I had left one stage of flap on
Shouldn't look like that

Butts

[Pete_G]

Butts, I'm not clear what you mean by "horizontal descent." If the plane is
descending (losing altitude) and the plane is more or less horizontal, i.e.
the nose is neither up or down, well, isn't that a proper descent? If you
add weight and/or slow the plane a little, then it might descend with the
nose a little up.

So what was the gross weight at the time of this kind of descent? And what
was your speed?

pete_g


"donbutts" wrote in message news:krq5cf$oqc$1...@dont-email.me...

[Walt_M]

On Fri, 12 Jul 2013 16:39:15 -0700, "Pete_G" <pgre...@comcast.net>
wrote:

> "Walt_M" wrote in message
> news:0110u85itqvoocug0...@4ax.com...

> >I like flying the Dash 7, but I get a bit annoyed by what I call its
> >"floatiness" and "driftiness" on approach with autopilot off.
>
> >It's almost as sexy at STOL landings as a Caribou. :-)))
>
> Hmm. I think there is too much lift somewhere. I went ahead and reduced
> flaps lift 20%, down to 0.8.
>
> Also, how heavy is your plane when you're "floating" down?

35,500 lbs. Midrange between min and max GW.

> I will say this: I don't like using full flaps unless the plane is very heavy. Otherwise
> there's too much lift and the nose has to be held down so much that, well,
> it just doesn't look right to my eye.

I usually use 35 deg flaps, and attitude at a 400ft/min descent rate
is about horizontal. On touchdown it's about 5 deg nose up at 75kts.
Looks about right, but with AP off, it wants to yaw all over the
place, even after only small inputs.

I'll keep experimenting.

[donbutts]

"Pete_G" wrote in message news:krqmsa$71a$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

Sorry I meant I was flying horizontal with the arse well up and nose down
about 150 knots

Butts

[Pete_G]

"donbutts" wrote in message news:krr967$ufr$1...@dont-email.me...

>Sorry I meant I was flying horizontal with the arse well up and nose down
>about 150 knots

>Butts

Yes, too much lift. Don't be adding flaps till under 150kts. I approach
holding around 100kts with 1/2 to 3/4 flaps, I think depending on weight,
then 85kts to the runway.

pete

[Mad Mike]

Looks pretty nice, Walt.
MM

[Walt_M]

On Sat, 13 Jul 2013 15:58:53 -0700, "Pete_G" <pgre...@comcast.net>
wrote:

What's the real stall speed of one of these things?

The model I'm flying stalls at about 57kts, so, based on that,
"the yardstick" of adding about 33% for an aircraft wight of
midway between min and max, that would come to about 75kts.

I've now got it touching down with about 5 deg nose-up at that speed.
But the lateral drift is giving me the sh*ts.

[Pete_G]

Stall speed is 66kts.

Walt, I see what you mean about the drifting side to side. I had managed to
get the plane on the runway but you're right, it's unnaturally awkward and
can't be quite right.

I'm going to take a look at the airfile.

pete_g






"Walt_M" wrote in message
news:j1v3u81fiib8b3a8n...@4ax.com...

[Walt_M]

On Sat, 13 Jul 2013 22:57:18 -0700, "Pete_G" <pgre...@comcast.net>
wrote:

> Stall speed is 66kts.

I've now adjusted touchdown attitude (5% nose-up) for 88kts @ 35500
lbs GW. Lands nicely.

> Walt, I see what you mean about the drifting side to side. I had managed to
> get the plane on the runway but you're right, it's unnaturally awkward and
> can't be quite right.

I've invented the techincal term "driftiness" to describe it. :-)

> I'm going to take a look at the airfile.

I shall await the results with baited breath... :-)

[BeeFlow]

Just for info's sake, the PSS Dash 8 also had a lot of lateral drift on
approach. Maybe it's a realistic trait?

[Pete_G]

>"BeeFlow" wrote in message news:1nzEt.94267$hK5....@fx15.iad... Just for

>info's sake, the PSS Dash 8 also had a lot of lateral drift on approach.
>Maybe it's a realistic trait?

Good point, BeeFlow.

I thought about that. In RL I've seen pilots struggling to keep the plane
headed down the center line. I've been thinking, maybe I just have to
practice and practice with this plane. But there's something almost out of
control about it. It maybe a close call, but I'm going ahead and I'll see if
I can make a little adjustment.

For what it's worth, I have Premier Aircraft Design's Dash 8-300 and 400 and
they are this difficult.

pg

[Pete_G]

Wellll...!

I made a few minor edits in the rudder function. No change. I tried
substituting some edited versions of a Dash 8 that flew well but its airfile
is incompatible with this Dash 7.

Sorry, Walt, this one has defeated me. I'm keeping it with the qualification
that it's a plane that's a struggle and now I agree, it's unnaturally
difficult.

Now I'm thinking about spending money. Does Majestic have a Dash 7, or just
the Dash 8?

pete_g




"Walt_M" wrote in message

news:1er4u8ttaej4rm32f...@4ax.com...

[Walt_M]

On Tue, 16 Jul 2013 11:52:31 -0700, "Pete_G" <pgre...@comcast.net>
wrote:

> Sorry, Walt, this one has defeated me. I'm keeping it with the qualification
> that it's a plane that's a struggle and now I agree, it's unnaturally
> difficult.

It's a shame, because it means I'll use the AP much more than I would
otherwise. I prefer to fly the without the AP once I'm within about 15
miles of the runway.

> Now I'm thinking about spending money. Does Majestic have a Dash 7, or just
> the Dash 8?

Looks like they only do the Dash 8
http://majesticsoftware.com/mjc8q400/products.html

I've searched high and low, and I can find no payware
Dash 7 anywhere. :-(

[Pete_G]

OK. I've got an interim edit of a Dash 8 airfile. It doesn't "drift."

pete_g

[Walt_M]

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 17:18:43 -0700, "Pete_G" <pgre...@comcast.net>
wrote:

> OK. I've got an interim edit of a Dash 8 airfile. It doesn't "drift."

Is that Dash 8, or Dash 7, Peter?

[Pete_G]

"Walt_M" wrote in message
news:hsdeu8p5dh4loe5vo...@4ax.com...

Sorry, to be more clear, I edited the Premier Aircraft Design Dash 8's
airfile, renamed it to use for the ikd Milton Shup Dash 7. One of the
trickier things was to learn how to edit the table that determines the
decline in torque with altitude. I changed some drag and lift parameters in
both airfile and aircraft.cfg files.

Now this Dash 7 flies straight and steady. It may be a little overpowered.
Mainly, I still need to tinker with lift or wing characteristics because
it's a bit tail heavy during Approach.

Anybody, e-mail me personally for a copy. Butts, are you interested in
trying it out?


-- Pete_G
http://wakefieldjazz.com/

[donbutts]

"Pete_G" wrote in message news:ks8qbh$6c5$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

yeah ok thanks donbuttsatxtra.co.nz
More interested in hearing your music though any freebies? :-)
I've been jamming all morning (guitar) with sax clarinet keyboard etc

Butts

[Walt_M]

On Thu, 18 Jul 2013 06:25:10 -0700, "Pete_G" <pgre...@comcast.net>
wrote:

> "Walt_M" wrote in message
> news:hsdeu8p5dh4loe5vo...@4ax.com...
>
> On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 17:18:43 -0700, "Pete_G" <pgre...@comcast.net>
> wrote:
> >> OK. I've got an interim edit of a Dash 8 airfile. It doesn't "drift."
>
> >Is that Dash 8, or Dash 7, Peter?
>
> Sorry, to be more clear, I edited the Premier Aircraft Design Dash 8's
> airfile, renamed it to use for the ikd Milton Shup Dash 7. One of the
> trickier things was to learn how to edit the table that determines the
> decline in torque with altitude. I changed some drag and lift parameters in
> both airfile and aircraft.cfg files.
>
> Now this Dash 7 flies straight and steady. It may be a little overpowered.
> Mainly, I still need to tinker with lift or wing characteristics because
> it's a bit tail heavy during Approach.

Still testing it, Peter. I'll get back to yo with my verdict soon.

Actually, my initial reaction to it, when doing stall tests, was that
I was not very happy with it, but I'll go back and do some more
testing around the 35 deg flaps @ 80 KIAS mark and see if it behaves
itself.

[Walt_M]

OK, I'm now happy with it. Needed to play with the aircraft.cfg file,
but it now flies to my liking.

Wasn't happy with the way it wallows at 70kts and below, but since I
really shouldn't let the speed get that low, I guess I'll use the
wallow much like a stick shaker... :-)

At 80kts, 35 deg flaps, mid-range GW, it lands quite nicely.

Thanks for all your work, Peter.

[Pete_G]

"donbutts" wrote in message news:ksa6jm$rns$1...@dont-email.me...

>yeah ok thanks donbuttsatxtra.co.nz
>More interested in hearing your music though any freebies? :-)
>I've been jamming all morning (guitar) with sax clarinet keyboard etc

>Butts

My e-mailer rejected the form of your address, "donbuttsatxtra.co.nz" Is
there supposed to be an "@" symbol in there somewhere? I couldn't send you
the file. E-mail me personally at pgre...@comcast.net

I have some music clips on the website. Somebody has a half-hour set we did
recently. I'm trying to get a copy.

Don, have you tried the video/audio calls with Skype? It's free and it is
possible to play music together as long as you have a pretty good
connection.


-- Pete_G
http://wakefieldjazz.com/

[John Ward]

ERRR, where you see at is where you put @...

JW

"Pete_G" <pgre...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:kse3o6$n1t$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

[sambodidley]

"Walt_M" <walt...@live.com> wrote in message
news:lanku89uf4oc2q7rn...@4ax.com...

> On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 18:09:46 +1000, Walt_M <walt...@live.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 18 Jul 2013 06:25:10 -0700, "Pete_G" <pgre...@comcast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > "Walt_M" wrote

>> Still testing it, Peter. I'll get back to yo with my verdict soon.
>>
>> Actually, my initial reaction to it, when doing stall tests, was that
>> I was not very happy with it, but I'll go back and do some more
>> testing around the 35 deg flaps @ 80 KIAS mark and see if it behaves
>> itself.
>
> OK, I'm now happy with it. Needed to play with the aircraft.cfg file,
> but it now flies to my liking.
>
> Wasn't happy with the way it wallows at 70kts and below, but since I
> really shouldn't let the speed get that low, I guess I'll use the
> wallow much like a stick shaker... :-)

Whatsamatter Walt? Cancha get it to fly like the last real dash 7 you
flew? <g>
Sam

[Walt_M]

Sam, dearest, if everyone applied your "philosophy", the only RL
pilots would by FSX, and even then they would each only fly those
aircraft which they have flown in RL. From an FSX point of view, that
would be just plain weird. :-)

As for me having expectations of what the thing should be doing, I'm
happy with it... :-)

We all have expectations, Sam... :-)

[sambodidley]

"Walt_M" <walt...@live.com> wrote in message

news:f9jmu89f8u94ra36d...@4ax.com...

LOL. I just fly the ones with broken tail wheels. <g>
Sam

[Walt_M]

On Sun, 21 Jul 2013 00:17:26 -0500, "sambodidley"
<scoo...@loonyville.com> wrote:


> LOL. I just fly the ones with broken tail wheels. <g>

Well that's cos you're just too sexy for the default J3.... :-)

[Pete_G]

Thank you, John. Such subtleties I've to learn about the Net!

pete_g

"John Ward" wrote in message news:ksf2se$sa0$1...@dont-email.me...

[donbutts]

so avoid possible automated spam clicks

"John Ward" wrote in message news:ksf2se$sa0$1...@dont-email.me...

[donbutts]

to avoid possible automated spam clicks