River Rat

[nm...@wt.net]

Tried the river route into KDCA.. Seems fairly doable as far as
the river course, and bridges and bridgettes with FSX.
The VASI is usable even far out.

Also, being I are in a 737, I also have the course plugged into
the puter. More for vertical than lateral.. It gives me vertical
guidance along the course. Also, there are two ways to fly it.
Along the river from 10 miles out, or fly the 148 DCA "111.00" radial
to the 6 mile point. I prefer this route myself. Less jostling around
for the drunken politicians in the back, and at 6 miles, I'm where
I need to be, and if I'm at 1800 ft, all is well in the world.

Should be 1200 ft at 4 miles. 900 ft at 3 miles.
I landed a hair long.. :( But no big deal really. I can stop no
problemo. Fer some reason I ended up a bit high right at the end,
even though I was keeping a fairly constant descent rate..

On the PFD, there is a pink marker where you would show the glide slope
if a ILS approach. That's being used for the vertical guidance, and
you fly it the same. On the ND there is info on how many feet you are
off the path, if that is the case.

This is using my 737-900 pseudo BBJ3, which is fully loaded with
everything. It's autoland fail operational, and has roll out
guidance if I were to need such a thing. It's the only one I run
that is fail op.. All the others I run are fail passive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgCUqJY5x0U&feature=youtu.be

[Iain Smith]

Nicely done nm...@wt.net! (I wish we had a proper name by which we could
address you!)

You are clearly more knowledgeable than me on technical aspects of
aviation. Can you explain the difference between ILS fail operational
and fail passive please?

Iain
Rugby, UK

[Gregory]

Not bad at all. I see the FD in pink which is very useful. You're
following the George Washington Parkway that parallels the river.
The scenery along there isn't too good if one is familiar with the
area. For instance there are no office buildings on Roosevelt Island
(near Rosslyn and the Key Bridge) It's 90% wooded IIRC, and further
down there are no buildings in Gravelly Point Park or along the Mount
Vernon Trail to the I-395 Shirley Highway overpass. No I don't jest

The biggest AC that operate into DCA are 738/9 and 757. The MD80s
are my favorite.. making a freakin' racket with those "rocket-rumble"
P&W engines! We're planning another weekend day trip to 'the Point'
for some sun, photos/videos, Air-band radio and lawn-chair plane
watching. Not to mention the local hotties!

What do you have for video AA? The scene looks a bit jagged and IIRC
can be smoothed out more.. even on low end hardware.


Some of my late afternoon/evening/dusk Sim flights past NYC, over New
Jersey, Philadelphia.. and descending into the Baltimore/Washington
area with weather/clouds and AI were the most memorable.


-G


p.s. you mention " jostling around for the drunken politicians"
how about for interviewees? :)


---

[nm...@wt.net]

On Thursday, May 8, 2014 7:08:25 AM UTC-5, Iain Smith wrote:

>
> Nicely done nm...@wt.net! (I wish we had a proper name by which we could
>
> address you!)

My name is José Jiménez... :|

>
>
>
> You are clearly more knowledgeable than me on technical aspects of
>
> aviation. Can you explain the difference between ILS fail operational
>
> and fail passive please?
>
>
>
> Iain
>
> Rugby, UK

The Collins MCP combined with the ISFD gives an extra 3rd autopilot
channel. That way you have the triple redundancy needed for fail
operational autoland, and gives a rudder channel for roll out
guidance.
With fail passive you see "COMMAND" on the PFD when go for an
autoland. With fail operational, you see "LAND 3" instead.
The ISFD is required for fail op.. If you have the Collins MCP,
but only analog backups as with the typical newer Southwest plane,
it's fail passive. You can't have fail op autoland with the
Honeywell MCP even if you had the ISFD. Actually, I don't think
any of the older planes with the Honeywell MCP ever came with the
ISFD for backups.

[nm...@wt.net]

On Thursday, May 8, 2014 8:49:59 AM UTC-5, Gregory wrote:

>
> What do you have for video AA? The scene looks a bit jagged and IIRC
>
> can be smoothed out more.. even on low end hardware.

Not sure. It's been so long since I looked at that, I forgot
what settings I have for that. I'd have to fire up the sim to look.
I know if I set it other ways, it can look much more jagged than it is.

[Iain Smith]

On 08/05/2014 20:02, nm...@wt.net wrote:
> On Thursday, May 8, 2014 7:08:25 AM UTC-5, Iain Smith wrote:
>
>> Nicely done nm...@wt.net! (I wish we had a proper name by which we could
>>
>> address you!)

> My name is Jos� Jim�nez... :|

>
>
>>
>>
>> You are clearly more knowledgeable than me on technical aspects of
>>
>> aviation. Can you explain the difference between ILS fail operational
>>
>> and fail passive please?
>>
>>
>>
>> Iain
>>
>> Rugby, UK
> The Collins MCP combined with the ISFD gives an extra 3rd autopilot
> channel. That way you have the triple redundancy needed for fail
> operational autoland, and gives a rudder channel for roll out
> guidance.
> With fail passive you see "COMMAND" on the PFD when go for an
> autoland. With fail operational, you see "LAND 3" instead.
> The ISFD is required for fail op.. If you have the Collins MCP,
> but only analog backups as with the typical newer Southwest plane,
> it's fail passive. You can't have fail op autoland with the
> Honeywell MCP even if you had the ISFD. Actually, I don't think
> any of the older planes with the Honeywell MCP ever came with the
> ISFD for backups.
>

So, if I understand your answer correctly, with fail operational if one
A/P fails you can still auto land whereas with fail passive if one fails
you can't. Correct?

Iain
Rugby, UK

[nm...@wt.net]

On Thursday, May 8, 2014 2:28:46 PM UTC-5, Iain Smith wrote:

> So, if I understand your answer correctly, with fail operational if one
>
> A/P fails you can still auto land whereas with fail passive if one fails
>
> you can't. Correct?
>
>
>
> Iain
>
> Rugby, UK

I think that is about the case. Tried checking the manuals to see
if any exceptions, but trying to dig info from those is not too user
friendly.. I did notice there is a difference is the way the two
systems do a crosswind landing. Fail passive lands in a crab, and
you disconnect AP on landing while keeping the control wheel into
the wind.
Fail operational attempts to straighten out using a forward slip
before touchdown, and with the rollout guidance you keep the AP
on until about to a stop.
If the crosswind is strong, fail op may also land in a slight crab.
I guess it's no miracle worker..
I've tested autolands at KIAH with a strong crosswind using the 900
and LAND 3, with rollout guidance, and it did pretty danged good at
straightening out and rolling down the center line once on the ground.

[Greasy Rider]

I've flown as a passenger into DCA many times in my Big Blue career and my most frequent memory of that approach is how incredibly bumpy the route is. Up and down draft pockets over the Potomac make for a very bumpy road most of the time. Almost imperceptible on take offs.

Regards,
Greasy

[Gregory]

It's been a while.. and I used to save approach plate PDFs to the HD.

Going to Airnav.com http://www.airnav.com/
and bringing up KDCA.. http://www.airnav.com/airport/KDCA

Five 19 approaches are found..

RNAV 19 http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1405/00443RR19.PDF
LDA 19 http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1405/00443LDAD19.PDF
Rossl LDA http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1405/00443ROSSLYNLDA19.PDF
VOR 19 http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1405/00443VDG19.PDF
RIV VIS 19 http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1405/00443RIVER_VIS19.PDF


For the River Visual.. looks like you fly past the north end of Legion
Bridge on a 148� heading, or... follow the Potomac River. The two
paths join-up basically between Chain Bridge and the Georgetown
Reservoir.

Watch for 4 DME, where you should be on the river centerline. The Key
Bridge would be 1-mi away. Descend thru 1,000 in that space and then
follow the river in like a hot-shot pilot. :)) < humor

Like THIS....

http://home.comcast.net/~flightsim/RV19_01.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~flightsim/RV19_02.jpg


And then..... with Pentagram in background

http://home.comcast.net/~flightsim/USAir_DCA.jpg Lol



How easy, or how fast can you bring up profiles in the 737 FMS?



ps. i don't know what the fk i'm talking about.. just having fun w/ FS

[Tom P]

nice... I wasn't watching the panel closely enough, was that a manual
approach?

[nm...@wt.net]

On Sunday, May 11, 2014 3:16:05 PM UTC-5, Tom P wrote:

>
> nice... I wasn't watching the panel closely enough, was that a manual
>
> approach?

After the 6 mile DME.. I think I let Otto hook up and fly the radial
to that point, and then I unhooked. The 6 mile DME is the point where the
river path from 10 miles, and the 148o radial path merge over the river.
I had LDA 19 punched into the puter for vertical guidance.
I think there may be a slight difference between it and the RIV VIS 19,
as far as exact altitudes, but it seemed pretty much right on when I
flew it. IE: 1800 at 6 miles, 1200 at 4 miles, etc.. Most seem to get
the 500 feet callout right before they get to the last two pair of bridges
when watching real world vids.

[nm...@wt.net]

On Sunday, May 11, 2014 3:16:05 PM UTC-5, Tom P wrote:

BTW.. When you watch the ND when I'm approaching the radial, the
purple path/info is the FMC path. You can see how it would turn me pretty
much down that radial even if I hadn't used the NAV VOR capture.
The green slashed line is the radial, and if I adjusted the course,
that line will move accordingly. The white slashed line on the left
is aligned with the runway.