Default C172: Can't turn off altitude hold when A/P engaged

[DonK]

The A/P is on and the alt hold button is NOT engaged but I do not have control of
pitch/elevator/altitude via the yoke or stick. I try toggling the Alt button but still get no manual
elevator control. When the A/P is On I can only change altitude via the Alt settings.

I didn't have this problem in the past but it now seems to happen every time I use the A/P.

Any ideas?
--

Don
Bothell, WA

The world unfolds according to its own inner algorithms of cause and effect, probability and chance without any regard for human feelings.

[ManhattanMan]

On 10/5/2012 4:53 PM, DonK wrote:
> Any ideas?


After getting FSX nearly 3 years ago, my first addition was the Carenado
C-206 (loved the C-210 in FS-9 but it wasn't available), and to this day
the a/p hasn't been turned on.

My idea = don't use a/p, it's more fun... :)

OK - I go now.........

--
MnM

[peter greenstein]

And this ONLY is happening with the Cessna 172?

I wonder if anything has gotten altered in the aircraft.cfg's "Autopilot"
section? Could you post what the default_pitch_mode line says?


-- peter greenstein
http://wakefieldjazz.com/




"DonK" wrote in message news:j4lu68phrg4colp4f...@4ax.com...

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ne...@netfront.net ---

[sambodidley]

"ManhattanMan" <fly...@usa.gov> wrote in message
news:k4npem$8uu$1...@dont-email.me...

What's a/p? <g>
Sam

[Ian D]

"DonK" wrote in message news:j4lu68phrg4colp4f...@4ax.com...

How quickly we forget. Add the following to the C172's
aircraft.cfg file at the end of the [Autopilot] section:

use_no_default_bank=1
use_no_default_pitch=1

You will then be able to manually control bank and pitch
with the A/P On, when the heading and alt lock are Off, with
no toggling required. This mod dates back to FS2002, worked
for FS9, and works in FSX for all default aircraft.

[peter greenstein]

"Ian D" wrote in message
news:rMmdnekvP7kxC_LN...@giganews.com...

------------------------

I guess the above works but it should not be necessary. The FSX default
Cessna 172's autopilot altitude hold button SHOULD toggle on and off
properly and allow manual control when AP is engaged.

I assume the O.P. has rebooted Windows and FSX a few times. Sometimes a
problem arises from the saved/default flight. I'd find another a/c that does
NOT exhibit the problem and then switch planes in mid air. Maybe if we could
see the entire [autopilot] section of the aircraft.cfg posted here?

peter

[guyo]

> use_no_default_bank=1
> use_no_default_pitch=1
>
> You will then be able to manually control bank and pitch
> with the A/P On, when the heading and alt lock are Off, with
> no toggling required. This mod dates back to FS2002, worked
> for FS9, and works in FSX for all default aircraft.

It will definitly work on FS9, but what Donk say it is what it will do in
the real plane!

[Ian D]

"guyo" wrote in message
news:506fe031$0$17946$4faf...@reader1.news.tin.it...

What real plane? Don was talking about the FS default C172.

[sambodidley]

"DonK" <don8...@frontier.com.notvalid> wrote in message
news:j4lu68phrg4colp4f...@4ax.com...
>

> The A/P is on and the alt hold button is NOT engaged but I do not have
> control of
> pitch/elevator/altitude via the yoke or stick. I try toggling the Alt
> button but still get no manual
> elevator control. When the A/P is On I can only change altitude via the
> Alt settings.
>
> I didn't have this problem in the past but it now seems to happen every
> time I use the A/P.
>
> Any ideas?
> --
>
> Don
> Bothell, WA

Don,
I haven't flown my default C172 in a long time so I got it out of the
hangar to check it out. The AP works just like you said yours used to work.
When I click the Alt hold button the plane flew to the altitude I had set
and at the vertical speed I had set. When I click the Alt hold button again
I can change elevation with my yoke. If I click the Heading button it turns
to the direction the bug is set to. I haven't changed anything in my cfg
file. You shouldn't have to either unless something else is conflicting
with your AP.
Sam

[Vic Baron]

Try CTRL V and see if that works.

Vic

"DonK" <don8...@frontier.com.notvalid> wrote in message
news:j4lu68phrg4colp4f...@4ax.com...
>

[guyo]

"> What real plane? Don was talking about the FS default C172.

Real means real not default. When you ingage the A/P both HDG and ALT are
locked.
On C182 I used to fligh anyway.

[guyo]

To be clear in a real airplane you cant climb in A/P and turn manually at
the same time, either both or none

In FS9 the following will help but it is not realistic, as IanD said

[sambodidley]

"guyo" <xx...@alice.it> wrote in message
news:507124f1$0$13278$4faf...@reader2.news.tin.it...

I'm just wondering, why would anybody ever want to turn the plane with
the yoke if they are on AP? If I need to make a heading correction I I just
move the bug.
Sam

[Propwash]

On Oct 5, 2:53 pm, DonK <don81...@frontier.com.notvalid> wrote:
> The A/P is on and the alt hold button is NOT engaged but I do not have control of
> pitch/elevator/altitude via the yoke or stick. I try toggling the Alt button but still get no manual
> elevator control. When the A/P is On I can only change altitude via the Alt settings.
>

> Don


Having been an old auto-pilot tech in my "previous life", you post has
me a little confused. Any AP I ever worked on functioned as
"ATTITUDE HOLD" when engaged. Changes in roll attitude were
accomplished with either the turn knob (or roll trim knob) on a flight
controller, or heading changes with a hdg select bug. Changes in
pitch attitude were made by rotation of a pitch command wheel. Only
certain systems allowed the pilot input from the yoke while engaged.
(An example would be the Low Level or Air Refuel modes on the B52.)
I'm not familiar at all with any "modern" systems on small private
aircraft, but would be amazed that any would now allow inputs from the
yoke.

Prop

[Vic Baron]

"Propwash" <prop...@cheneycable.com> wrote in message
news:6ddee39d-0d74-4ad2...@kg10g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...

Also believe that some modern a/c will disengage the a/p if the yoke is
moved manually. Seem to recall one crash cause by the pilot leaning forward
to check a circuit breaker and hitting the yoke, disengaging the a/p and
neither he nor the FO caught it. Believe it was an Airbus and also believe
the made a modification so that it didn't go unnoticed in the future.

Vic

[sambodidley]

"Propwash" <prop...@cheneycable.com> wrote in message
news:6ddee39d-0d74-4ad2...@kg10g2000pbc.googlegroups.com...

========================
=========================
That's what had me confused too. When would anybody ever need to move
the yoke with the AP engaged? Even if you hack the cfg file so you could do
something that unrealistic the AP should take you right back to where you
were before you moved it. If I want to fly my plane I don't put it on AP. I
usually set everything in my AP before take off. I set the bug to my
course. Then when I get into the air and leave the pattern I engage the AP
and don't touch it again until I start my descent near my destination.
That's the way I did it when I used AP. I never use it any more in FSX. It
is so boring.<g>
Sam

[NM5K]

On 10/7/2012 4:58 PM, Vic Baron wrote:

>
> Also believe that some modern a/c will disengage the a/p if the yoke is
> moved manually. Seem to recall one crash cause by the pilot leaning
> forward to check a circuit breaker and hitting the yoke, disengaging the
> a/p and neither he nor the FO caught it. Believe it was an Airbus and
> also believe the made a modification so that it didn't go unnoticed in
> the future.
>
> Vic

That's the way it is with the 737. And it won't let you engage if
there is pressure on the yoke. So you have to be fairly well trimmed
to engage. But the FMC gives you the exact trim setting to use before
takeoff, so it's not an issue.
I think that is what happened to Eastern 401 that was out over the
Everglades. That was an L1011. They were putzing around trying to
check a landing gear light or something like that, and the pilot
bumped the yoke and disengaged the AP. He didn't realize what happened
until it was too late. I think they were pretty low before they bumped
it.
With the Boeing, no mistake if it clicks off.. Whoop, whoop, whoop...
Also a red warning light that must be manually clicked off. Ditto for
the auto throttle. It has a yellow light next to the red A/P light,
and is also manual push to clear.

[guyo]

"> That's what had me confused too. When would anybody ever need to move
> the yoke with the AP engaged? Even if you hack the cfg file so you could
> do
> something that unrealistic the AP should take you right back to where you
> were before you moved it. If I want to fly my plane I don't put it on AP.
> I
> usually set everything in my AP before take off. I set the bug to my
> course. Then when I get into the air and leave the pattern I engage the
> AP
> and don't touch it again until I start my descent near my destination.
> That's the way I did it when I used AP. I never use it any more in FSX.
> It
> is so boring.<g>
> Sam
>

In fact it not realistic! But I know friends who like the A/P to maintain
the Alt and turn by hand
the EDG. That in reality it is NOT possible. So somebody found a way to do
it in the sim.

[sambodidley]

"guyo" <xx...@alice.it> wrote in message

news:5072a3bd$0$17944$4faf...@reader1.news.tin.it...

Yep, some people do all kinds of silly things in the sim to make it work
the way THEY want it to work. Then they wind up flying a lot of "what if"
stuff that doesn't exist anywhere except in their game. FSX has enough
limits in in realism that I don't care to add any more. But if you are
flying a F-18 or a B-29 from a laptop with a touch pad and mouse I guess one
more silly thing doesn't matter all that much to you. After all, it IS just
another game.<g>
Sam

[guyo]

> Yep, some people do all kinds of silly things in the sim to make it
> work the way THEY want it to work. Then they wind up flying a lot of "what
> if" stuff that doesn't exist anywhere except in their game. FSX has
> enough limits in in realism that I don't care to add any more. But if you
> are flying a F-18 or a B-29 from a laptop with a touch pad and mouse I
> guess one more silly thing doesn't matter all that much to you. After all,
> it IS just another game.<g>
> Sam

Roger!