Getting a King Air to Hawaii Problem
Dallas
From Alaska to Baja California = 2,000 nm It's uncanny.
The B200's range at FL31 econo cruise is 1974 nm which makes it a no-go.
But you can get there if you fly to the Alaskan Aleutians (PADK) to Midway
Island (PMDY) - 1433 nm
Then from Midway to Maui - 1183 nm
I wonder if that is really how they get one there.
Dallas
John Ewing
"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:CBZMd.675$mG6...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
As I understand it you would have to carry enough fuel for a diversion to
another airport. That is, if your designated arrival airport is closed due
to bad weather or any other reason. Perhaps one of our current or retired
airline pilots can enlighten us.
Cessnas and the like are flown from the US to new owners in Australia -
presumably with special long range fuel tanks. Mainland US to Hawaii in a
Cessna would be a really long flight. This is not generally done solo, but
in the company of other aircraft, to maintain regular voice contact and so
keep each other from drifting off to sleep. An Australian ferry pilot died
recently on such a flight when he had engine failure. The other pilots were
helpless to assist other than to report the crash location.
John
Dallas
> An Australian ferry pilot died
> recently on such a flight when he had engine failure.
Yeah, I just died too.. :-)
Left Monterey, CA at 7:45 am to Maui... 50 kt quartering headwind... fuel
tanks ran dry 330 nm short of flight plan... fall down... go boom.
Dallas
Dallas
"John Ewing"
> Cessnas and the like are flown from the US to new owners in Australia -
> presumably with special long range fuel tanks.
Somebody has got to expound on this! To Australia! How do they do it?
Dallas
boB
Yes, Inquiring minds want....... You know, tell us
--
boB
U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Jimbo
an additional fuel tank. They can also remove all the passenger seats to
save some weight.
"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:CBZMd.675$mG6...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
William
ala c130?
Bill
"Jimbo" <jam...@grandecom.net> wrote in message
news:36jhopF...@individual.net...
Marcel Kuijper
> Just some wild ideas..how about sending them by sea or by large air cargo
> ala c130?
Yeah. That's what I was thinking too.
It seems the most logical way to get a short range aircraft to an owner in
a far away land. And it's probably the cheapest way.
Won't ripping the seats out and adding extra tanks just add weight?
--
Marcel
(life is a tricky thing...I'm glad I'm good at it!)
Matt B.
"boB" <akitaREM...@excite.Icom> wrote in message
news:sh0Nd.16486$uA.1...@fe1.texas.rr.com...
> Dallas wrote:
> > "John Ewing"
> >>Cessnas and the like are flown from the US to new owners in Australia -
> >>presumably with special long range fuel tanks.
> > Somebody has got to expound on this! To Australia! How do they do it?
> Yes, Inquiring minds want....... You know, tell us
Maybe they load them into a large cargo plane and then "fly" them to
Austrailia?
Tom Orle
>> > Somebody has got to expound on this! To Australia! How do they do it?
>
>> Yes, Inquiring minds want....... You know, tell us
>
>Maybe they load them into a large cargo plane and then "fly" them to
>Austrailia?
If you want to know something - go googling ;-))
I found this to answer your, and my, questions:
<http://www.skycam.com.au/172/172Cessna182ferry.html>
BTW - Bankstown seems to be a suburb of Sydney!
-=tom=-
Tom Orle
Well, if they got a C182 to Hawaii - a King Air should be no problem.
See my subsequent reference to the US - Australia ferry flight on:
<http://www.skycam.com.au/172/172Cessna182ferry.html>
You just have to install long range tanks!
... or have inflight refueling (select aircraft, then fuel ;-)) )
-=tom=-
Don Parker
was along for a check ride when they were ferrying Fairchild Swearingen
Metroliners to Hawaii from LAX (back in the 70's). They removed some seats
and put in extra fuel tanks. Got about the half way point and found that
the headwinds were more than anticipated and had to return to LAX....
oopppsss
Cheers'n Beers.. [_])
Don
Tom Orle
What can I tell you - they should have bought a single engine Cessna
product!!
Multiengine swearing or king air can't make it ... but the single
engine C182 has no problems!
Seems that headwinds don't affect singles from Cessna ;-P
-=tom=-
Dallas
> Maybe they load them into a large cargo plane and then "fly" them to
> Austrailia?
A coach ticket to Australia can set you back quite a few bucks... Leasing
the whole aircraft to carry over a Cessna would likely cost half as much as
the Cessna.
Dallas
Don Parker
How about a tow? Just have to find a cargo plane that keeps under the Vne
of the Cessna... Hell, could probably take a half dozen at a time!
d:->))
Dallas
"Tom Orle"
> <http://www.skycam.com.au/172/172Cessna182ferry.html>
Ok... I'm stunned. Even with a back seat full of fuel I would not have
thought you could make Hawaii in a C182. So, I learned something.
The 182 holds 92 gals. The bladder holds 150 gals. That's 242 gals.
That's 2,095.72 pounds of fuel. That should give it a range of 2,835.60
nm... piece of cake!
Man, you gotta be nutts to do that... picture 14.5 hours from California to
Hawaii with nothing but empty blue ocean and one single engine in front of
you. Wake up the next day and do it again.... and again.
I'm not a pussy, but I'd turn that trip down. :-)
Some time this week I'll change the aircraft.cfg for 242 gals and set it up
on autopilot to fly all night.
Dallas
Dallas
"Don Parker"
> How about a tow? Just have to find a cargo plane that keeps under the
Vne
> of the Cessna... Hell, could probably take a half dozen at a time!
That's using your head! Let's go into business!
Dallas
Dallas
"Tom Orle"
> See my subsequent reference to the US - Australia ferry flight on:
> <http://www.skycam.com.au/172/172Cessna182ferry.html>
Did any of you guys see the History Channel's 2 hour program on Eric
Lindberg's recreation of his Granddad's flight? They acted like it was a
moon shot. They even had a control center with 6 people on screens
monitoring everything.
What a joke!!! considering he probably passed 12 ferry pilots doing the
same thing that day.
Dallas
Tom Orle
>Man, you gotta be nutts to do that... picture 14.5 hours from California to
>Hawaii with nothing but empty blue ocean and one single engine in front of
>you. Wake up the next day and do it again.... and again.
Hey, I'd rather do that than climb on top of a freezing rock called
Mt. Everest ;-)
-=tom=-
Tom Orle
Nope - didn't see it.
But if the plane was a copy of the original, ie: no GPS and other
nifty stuff we take for granted, it may as well have been a moon shot!
Obviously there was telemetry gear on board to 'monitor everything'.
-=tom=-
Don Parker
Or jump out of a perfectly good airplane.......... d:->))
Don Parker
> But if the plane was a copy of the original, ie: no GPS and other
> nifty stuff we take for granted, it may as well have been a moon shot!
>
> Obviously there was telemetry gear on board to 'monitor everything'.
>
The closed it resembled the original, is that it had wings and a single
engine....
I would have loved to see him land it with a periscope for forward view!!
HA.....
John Ewing
"John Ewing" <none@needed> wrote in message
news:42047394$0$25526$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Sorry - I should have relied on Google, not my unreliable memory!
The ferry pilot I mentioned, Ray Clamback, did in fact survive.
See: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/10/06/1096949592018.html
Cheers,
John
Rand
"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message news:RP9Nd.1192$
> Some time this week I'll change the aircraft.cfg for 242 gals and set it
up
> on autopilot to fly all night.
>
> Dallas
Cheat, cheat cheat! ;)
Darrell Criswell
from England to the US. The ferry pilot used extra fuel tanks and
carried a liferaft, antiexposure suit, and emergency radios and ELT's.
I wonder if the ferry pilots usually carry special survival equipment?
Tom Orle
>Had a friend years ago who hired a ferry pilot to fly an old Cessna
>from England to the US. The ferry pilot used extra fuel tanks and
>carried a liferaft, antiexposure suit, and emergency radios and ELT's.
>
>I wonder if the ferry pilots usually carry special survival equipment?
According to reports, yes, if they fly out of reach of land or hostile
territory like Alaska or the Amazon! Not doing so would be tempting
fate ...
There are many interesting reports on the web of ferry pilots flying
the Atlantic.
<http://www.utility-aircraft.com/ferry_flight/jetprop.htm>
I even found one of Bill Leaming Socatas doing it ;-)
<http://www.socata.eads.net/frame/lang/en/1024/content/OF00000031800002/7/04/32100047.html>
-=tom=-
Dallas
"Tom Orle"
> But if the plane was a copy of the original, i.e.: no GPS and other
> nifty stuff we take for granted, it may as well have been a moon shot!
No! That's what made it so humorous. Eric Lindbergh flew a brand new,
right from the factory Lancair Columbia 300... glass cockpit, GPS,
autopilot and new car smell.
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=N142LC&distinct_entry=true
The show made it seem like this was a "great accomplishment". They were
talking about all the prep before the flight, I was thinking: What? His
mommy made some nice sandwiches and put them in a cooler for him? :-)
Dallas
bl...@nospam.com
1) your condescending attitude towards Eric's accomplishment indicates
how little you understand about the risks of flying a piston single over
large stretches of the Atlantic. I have high admiration for his flight,
and I also think it's really cool that he was able to follow in his
granddad's footsteps (airsteps?). I would think twice or more about
making such a trip, and would check every little detail about every
aspect of the flight. It's a life-or-death situation, especially in the
event of an engine failure over water. Look into what's involved in such
a mission a little more, and I think you'll agree that he accomplished
something significant (especially given his physical disabilities).
2) "Plane and Pilot" magazine has a regular contributor, Bill Cox, that
has made a career of ferrying aircraft from Here to There. He's done
several mainland > Hawaii (and beyond!) trips - it's been very
interesting to read of his prep work and criteria for continuing a given
ferry flight - e.g. turning back after a certain amount of time if his
average groundspeed does not equal or better a pre-determined value
which guarantees his safely (at least w.r.t. fuel) the other end.
Perhaps his regular column has made me much more aware of the risks that
a ferry/over-ocean pilot faces.
Dave Blevins
Dallas
<bl...@nospam.com
> 1) your condescending attitude towards Eric's accomplishment
Dave, If you'll reread my posts you'll find that it's the 2 hour History
Channel's program I'm making fun of... not Eric. If you get a chance to
view the program you'll know what I'm talking about.
Dallas
Marcel Kuijper
> No! That's what made it so humorous. Eric Lindbergh flew a brand new,
> right from the factory Lancair Columbia 300... glass cockpit, GPS,
> autopilot and new car smell.
>
> http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?regsearch=N142LC&distinct_entry=true
Hey...now that's a pretty little plane!
Looks like fun to fly, eh?
> The show made it seem like this was a "great accomplishment". They were
> talking about all the prep before the flight, I was thinking: What? His
> mommy made some nice sandwiches and put them in a cooler for him? :-)
ROTFL!!!
"And remember...don't take things from strangers, brush your teeth after
every meal and stay away from bad girls."
James Hodson
<Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:
>
>"John Ewing"
>> Cessnas and the like are flown from the US to new owners in Australia -
>> presumably with special long range fuel tanks.
>
>Somebody has got to expound on this! To Australia! How do they do it?
Hi Dallas
I usually avoid films with colons (or any other intestine, for that
matter) in their titles like the plague. However, a week or so ago I
did watch Mercy Mission: The Rescue Of Flight 771.
<URL:http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107556/>
This film was based on a true story about a ferry pilot, played by
Scott Bakula, and his almost ill-fated trip between the mainland USA
and Australia.
As far as I recall, the Cessna Model ??? did have long range fuel
tanks (it must had had 'em) and the route took in the Hawaiian
Islands. See <URL:http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107556/plotsummary> for
more details of the trip.
A malfunctioning ADF was the cause of Scott B's navigation woes. The
only unlikely scenario in the film was when the captain of Air NZ
plane - the aircraft that found the lost pilot and provided navigation
help - asked his passengers whether they should divert to help the
sticken Cessna.
Regards
James
bl...@nospam.com
Dallas,
It seems I misread your post; my apologies. I read a lot of posts in a
lot of newsgroups each day (I have lots of hobbies!), so perhaps I
missed your nuanced (or not?) viewpoint.
I did not see the show, but it would surprise me not at all if the
media types resorted to sensationalism yet again. It happens all the
time on Discovery: Wings - oops I meant Discovery:The Military Channel"
(grrrrr - don't get me started - but it USED to be my favorite satellite
channel, other than the excessive number of reruns)
cheers,
Dave Blevins