Fascinated by the people
Cleve
As I've said before, my new test for a game is, "Can you stand the character
on any corner, and just watch, and be entertained?"
People chasing each other, pulling each other out of cars, whacking each
other, whacking cars with bats and shovels, shooting each other. I saw a
woman the other day just go postal and start chasing people down the street,
firing her gun in the air. Cars slamming into each other, flipping, blowing
up -- on and on. Just stand and watch.
That was somewhat possible in VC, too, but SA has improved it greatly (and
that auto-pilot camera that kicks in after about 60 seconds and follows the
action is outstanding).
Have you seen the homeless guy in SF with the box on his head like a hat,
and the sign that says, "God is playing with us"? I've been playing the
game for months and just now ran into him.
The "gang AI" is excellent. Stop and watch them sometime (someplace like
SF, where they don't just attack you like the Ballas and Vagos do in LS).
In SF, it's common for a gang of four to stand and pass a bottle around
(and/or a cigar). One will spot a babe and run off to ogle her for a moment
(even cross the street), then return to his buddies. They mock-salute a cop
if he passes by. Of course, they try to get CJ to talk -- but don't, unless
you want to fight.
I'm beginning to think the programmers purposely swapped the good/bad
response logic when CJ talks to gang members -- just to burn us. CJ seems
to give belligerent responses when I press the "positive response" button,
and polite ones when I press the "negative response" button. I try to be
nice, and CJ blurts something out that makes them instantly blast the fool!
To me, the people are more fascinating than the vehicles. I wish someone
would make a pedestrian database, like they've done with autos: a picture;
where found; the lines they say for different occasions (and there are MANY
different situations that EACH pedestrian has a whole set of lines for: when
you hit them; hold a gun on them; bump into them; pull them from a car; bump
their car; etc.; etc.). That would be a monumental task -- but look what
some guys have done with the vehicles in the most comprehensive guides!
Even just a "best of the pedestrians" would be cool.
Remember Zeppelin in VC, always hanging around outside Mitch's place? I
wish they had done some of that in SA: unique characters that always hang
around their favorite places.
--cleve
Rob White
"Cleve" <cle...@cox.net> wrote:
> You really have to hand it to Rockstar for the pedestrian/driver AI.
There's one thing I never noticed before. Head into LS or LV police
precincts and go down to the cells. You'll find a bunch of hookers
locked up. One of them is the chick with the black hair in a black
cocktail dress, but she's smoking a cigarette. I've never seen her do
this on the streets before.
Has anybody else spotted the Hoodz/Skinz Manhunt character yet? You'll
find him in the poorer areas sporting a yellow "face mask".
Cheers,
Rob
--
.__ __ |__ |__ .|__ __ | Rob White, Half Man Half Biscuit.
| / \| \ | | || ||| /__\ | mfl...@dsl.pipex.com
| \__/|__/ |_|_|| |||__\___ | Wimbledon, London, England.
Paul Evans
"Cleve" <cle...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:g4TPe.48977$Ji4.48518@fed1read03...
> You really have to hand it to Rockstar for the pedestrian/driver AI.
>
I went back to playing Vice City a couple of night ago, and I can tell you what
a great pleasure it was to be able to drive somewhere without some dipstick
ramming me up the arse!
There's some other things that I wish had made it into San Andreas, like the
little details with accident scenes (cars parked in the middle of the road with
some poor sod spattered on the floor and a crowd looking on), pedestrians
muttering to themselves (rather than trying to get a response from you), but the
AI in SA in general is far better - The pedestrians seem to have actual
personalities, though there seems to be fewer fights between them, and as you
say, gang members stand around drinking, coughing and smoking too. Towns
certainly feel more 'alive' than they did in VC, and the controls are a lot
better too!
Paul.
Brodieman
> "Cleve" <cle...@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:g4TPe.48977$Ji4.48518@fed1read03...
>> You really have to hand it to Rockstar for the pedestrian/driver AI.
>>
> <interesting stuff snipped>
>
> I went back to playing Vice City a couple of night ago, and I can tell you what
> a great pleasure it was to be able to drive somewhere without some dipstick
> ramming me up the arse!
>
I felt the same way about going out in London for change instead of
Brighton =)
Sorry. Very bad joke...
Cleve
"Rob White" <mfl...@dsl.pipex.com> wrote in message
news:895dfaa...@aqus02.dsl.pipex.com...
>
> Has anybody else spotted the Hoodz/Skinz Manhunt character yet? You'll
> find him in the poorer areas sporting a yellow "face mask".
>
Not familiar with. A character from another game? Yellow face mask, like a
hockey mask or something? Haven't seen yet.
--cleve
Cleve
"Paul Evans" <uknorthernerSPAMMEAND...@hotmail.com> wrote
in message news:3nbbol...@individual.net...
>
> "Cleve" <cle...@cox.net> wrote in message
> news:g4TPe.48977$Ji4.48518@fed1read03...
>> You really have to hand it to Rockstar for the pedestrian/driver AI.
>>
> <interesting stuff snipped>
>
> I went back to playing Vice City a couple of night ago, and I can tell you
> what
> a great pleasure it was to be able to drive somewhere without some
> dipstick
> ramming me up the arse!
>
I rather like the butthead drivers. Everybody's nuts. It adds to the humor
in the game.
> There's some other things that I wish had made it into San Andreas, like
> the
> little details with accident scenes (cars parked in the middle of the road
> with
> some poor sod spattered on the floor and a crowd looking on).
Yeah, they used to just spawn those "the accident already happened" scenes
in VC, but in SA they DO happen (we see them happen), and lookie-loos do
show up to stand and watch.
One thing I object to is all the horn-honking. In GTA3, it was out of
control, and they fixed that in VC, toned it down dramatically. Now they've
cranked it up again for SA. They need to take it back to the VC level.
--cleve
Rob White
"Cleve" <cle...@cox.net> wrote:
> One thing I object to is all the horn-honking. In GTA3, it was out of
> control, and they fixed that in VC, toned it down dramatically. Now they've
> cranked it up again for SA. They need to take it back to the VC level.
I think it's odd how a cue of people dent bumpers running into a pile-up
that's already happened (No fault of my own, honest guv) and *still*
beep their horns.
Rob White
"Cleve" <cle...@cox.net> wrote:
> Not familiar with. A character from another game? Yellow face mask, like a
> hockey mask or something? Haven't seen yet.
Kind of like a hockey mask, but it might only have appeared yellow due
to the sunset or something. I'd only just got into playing Manhunt when
I saw him so I could be wrong. I'm pretty sure it was Los Santos, and
he's usually carrying a melee weapon.
Speaking of Manhunt, I especially like the pleasant individual with
'Please Stop Me' on his mask. Made him into a bookmark :o)
Matt
I like seeing the 5^2 miles of landscape and knowing that every foot,
every inch can be seen up close. People who don't play the game simply
do not understand the sheer scope of what Rockstar has done.
Rockstar could (not likely) make millions selling their development
tools to city planners. From emergency routes to snow removal, the
practial uses are truly astronomical.
towelie
> Have you seen the homeless guy in SF with the box on his head like a hat,
> and the sign that says, "God is playing with us"? I've been playing the
> game for months and just now ran into him.
I saw a guy in Hashbury with a sign that said "Will Work for Pot".
Mark C.
--
Mark
--
"I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates who once said, "I drank
what?". " Val Kilmer in Real Genius.
"towelie" <bugoN...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:-e2dnQh0yJI...@centurytel.net...
Rob White
"towelie" <bugoN...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I saw a guy in Hashbury with a sign that said "Will Work for Pot".
It's rumoured that that was based on a photo Rockstar loved with a chap
with a sign saying "Need money for beer and hooker, but hey, at least
I'm honest".
Paul O'Neill
>
> As I've said before, my new test for a game is, "Can you stand the
> character
> on any corner, and just watch, and be entertained?"
>
> People chasing each other, pulling each other out of cars, whacking each
> other, whacking cars with bats and shovels, shooting each other. I saw a
> woman the other day just go postal and start chasing people down the
> street,
> firing her gun in the air. Cars slamming into each other, flipping,
> blowing
> up -- on and on. Just stand and watch.
>
> That was somewhat possible in VC, too, but SA has improved it greatly (and
> that auto-pilot camera that kicks in after about 60 seconds and follows
> the
> action is outstanding).
>
> Have you seen the homeless guy in SF with the box on his head like a hat,
> and the sign that says, "God is playing with us"? I've been playing the
> game for months and just now ran into him.
This guy:
http://homepage.eircom.net/~lazyeyedpsycho/gallery11.jpg
I once jacked a car, but the passenger didn't get out. He just turned to me
and said "Where we going?"
Rob White
"Paul O'Neill" <new...@lazyeyedpsycho.cjb dot net> wrote:
> I once jacked a car, but the passenger didn't get out. He just turned to me
> and said "Where we going?"
Quite a few pedestrians do that.
The most common I've had is the English chick with the blonde hair and
dark clothing. 'Don't I know you???'
Cleve
"Paul O'Neill" <new...@lazyeyedpsycho.cjb dot net> wrote in message
news:3ne7pvF...@individual.net...
>
> This guy:
>
> http://homepage.eircom.net/~lazyeyedpsycho/gallery11.jpg
>
That's the dude.
--cleve
Cleve
"Matt" <Mat...@gentelnetworks.ca> wrote in message
news:uru1h1554h93r1klv...@4ax.com...
> I like seeing the 5^2 miles of landscape and knowing that every foot,
> every inch can be seen up close.
Right. That's what I've been on a quest to do for the past several months.
I've explored the SA "island", the wilderness south of SF, and I'm working
on SF. I'm also playing the game through a second time. Basically, I
explore an area, then do the missions for that area. What an amazing world.
I'm hoping that, eventually, other developers will rise to this level of
expertise in world-designing. I would love a Tomb Raider in this kind of
enormous, completely accessible world. I absolutely HATE the concept of The
Path that so many games use: you can walk WHERE they want you to WHEN they
want you to -- but you hit an invisible wall if you so much as try to step
over a four-inch curb. I'm thinking Resident Evil, Silent Hill, etc. -- at
least earlier versions. I haven't played the recent ones. (In Silent Hill
2, they actually STOP you from exploring, turn your character around, and
make him say things like, "No, I'm not finished with things here yet."!)
And Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness made a RETREAT toward that kind of game
(and, in one part, you can't walk down the block without it stopping to load
every 50 yards!). But here, thankfully, there is GTA, whose designers
understand the need for a completely open,
go-anywhere-do-anything-any-time-you-want world. I would rather play a true
hero, like Croft, but I'll take Tommy and CJ so that I can visit their
fantastic worlds. (And, hey, I DO love the ol' Rockstar humor.)
--cleve
@theforce.com §ynchronizer
I love doing that. Standing/crouching in San Fierro right now.
At GTA Domain we documented as many pedestrian
saying as possible for Vice City, with brief descriptions
of appearance, location found, and fight/no fight,
if they jack, carry weapons, etc.
So it was natural to do it for San Andreas. A lot
of the website forums have these as threads, but they
seem spaced out and random. So the moderators at GTA Domain
try to keep order and coherency in the threads, we edit our later
findings in the specific posts. Among others, I covered the SF cops,
and many of the others are covering literally all the
normal, and rare pedestrians. Hardly any screenshots, though.
It is amazing how much activity they do. Also the
appearingy random conversations they have with each other on the
streets, and how they don't fit. I've seen the guy with the box on his
head a lot, cornered him in Zero's for his dialogue. That's
how I got the Elvises and John Redcorn Indian guy in Fort Carson,
corner them in a 24-7 store. Just when we write up like 30-40
of their sayings, we'll hear another one. I also really like the
hooker in-vehicle commentary as well as their street talk,
conversations with other hookers, and not surprising, each hooker,
each pedestrian actually, has seperate dialogue when speaking with any
of the three dope dealers. Yes, there are not just the 2 in LS.
(Black dude in black, white dude in white hoody) There is a third
I've ran across in SF, that looks like a biker, with same dope dealer
language and neg/pos reply box. He may only occur after the
extra territory spawn glitch, but he exists none the less.
Also I finally recently saw the lemmings pedestrians.
In LS, go to the Cluckin' Bell north of the Johnson House, and go in
the back parking lot on a bike, or have wide angle camera view
in a car. Face the Bell, forward, but look behind, to the telephone
pole, sometimes they will be dropping, sometimes they go up it, then
fall. Sometimes they die, sometimes they don't. In SF, near the
cemetary across from the big white church near the Hippy Shopper
asset, they never die, it's too short of a drop. In LV, go to the gym.
Next to it is a car wash. I just started seeing this after "Madd Dogg"
mission in my last 100% game. Drive to the back of the car wash, but
stay in the alley. Adjust the camera to look at the tall building
across the street, I think it's the Emerald Isle. Peds will walk off
the roof, and survive, and keep on walking! This can only be seen in
that certain position in the alley. Not in the actual car wash, but
the alley.
Another thing great about the pedestrian AI is that they actually
require a response from CJ, and look at him for this.
When you leave him standing/crouching, and the cinematic view takes
over, you can see the peds negatively and positively comment and look
at him. All the while, when a cop chase is going on, car wrecks are
going on, peds are fighting, and having conversations.
Yeah, I'm also fascinated by the people.
When the credits roll after the 'End of the Line' mission, the
pedestrian voice talent is a huge cast of people. Also it looks like
Lazlow wrote all the DJ commentaries. That's some pretty crazy
dialogue as well. The crazy cock commercial, Sage's self-induced
insanity, the WCTR coverage, the 51-year old kid from 'Just the 5 of
us'. I think Hans and Mary Beth Maybelle are the funniest DJ's in the
game radio. He did a great job. But the pedestrian dialogue, written
by Dan Howzer, just gets better every game.
-§ynch
Matt
I'm still on my first time playing through it. What they've done is
truly amazing. I get side tracked so easily just watching the world
around me.
I can't wait to see what they're doing with the next one. Kinda hoping
to see better textures and models (including a jiggle and a wiggle in
all the right places).
One of the best ideas I've heard is the introduction of animals.
Beyond the typical cats, rats, dogs and bears (oh my) (as well as
pedestrian interactions with the animals), heh road kill, Loosening
the animals of say a zoo or a circus as part of a mission would be
pretty fantastic, especially if their AI took care of themselves
through out the rest of the game. The areas would be quite different
if predators were wandering around.
Matt
wrote:
>The areas would be quite different
>if predators were wandering around.
>
The areas outside the cities would be quite different if predators
were wandering around.
Rob White
§ynchronizer <Luke @TheForce.com> wrote:
> Not in the actual car wash, but the alley.
<big snippy snip>
You can actually see them doing this quite near on the road. I'd
estimate they they still spawn when the closest you can be is about
15-20 metres.
> Another thing great about the pedestrian AI is that they actually
> require a response from CJ, and look at him for this.
You can also prompt CJ to reply, although the dialogue box doesn't
appear. Most of the time it's about clothing (Admittedly I've only
noticed this through playing my 100% saves when CJ looks his buffest)
but it's quite common for the peds to say stuff like 'Well, look who
made it' and things of that nature.
> When the credits roll after the 'End of the Line' mission, the
> pedestrian voice talent is a huge cast of people.
I've tried to do internet searches for a LOT of those people. Most have
worked on other games or in televesion and film, but I suspect there
are loads who have just been, say, mates with the development team and
have a unique-ish voice.
> Also it looks like Lazlow wrote all the DJ commentaries.
He co-wrote most of them GTAIII and VC. The 51 year old kid advert also
crops up in VC I think.
Shawn LeBron
>
> He co-wrote most of them GTAIII and VC. The 51 year old kid advert also
> crops up in VC I think.
What is the deal about the 51 year old kid? I was listening to WCTR
after some Heist missions in LV and a reporter was interviewing a "51
years old" kid and then he becomes a kid voice too....never quite got
what was going on....
Rob White
"Shawn LeBron" <scl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> What is the deal about the 51 year old kid? I was listening to WCTR
> after some Heist missions in LV and a reporter was interviewing a "51
> years old" kid and then he becomes a kid voice too....never quite got
> what was going on....
Just The 5 Of Us:
----------------
Male: This Friday night it's the incredible sitcom that's captured
America's hearts and given the whole country a new catchphrase.
Timmy: But I'm 42!
Male: Just the Five of Us! After a mix up at the adoption agency the
Chesterfields came home with three zany new houseguests.
Dad: Timmy, tidy your room and go to bed.
Jimmy: I'm so sick of this! I keep telling you I've got a rare disease!
I look 12 but I'm a 42-year-old investment banker. I wanna go
out and get laid.
Dad: Oh yeah and I'm Santa Claus. Now tidy your room.
Timmy: Asshole!
Dad: Shawn, our posh suburban home must be a welcome change from that
alley you were sleeping in.
Shawn: I really enjoy living here but there's not enough booze.
Male: It's the funniest most touching half-hour on television.
Dad: Charlotte, what's that smell?
Charlotte: I set the couch on fire again.
Shawn: Here I can you help with that.
Male: And this week its a very special Just the Five of Us where an
attractive blonde lady tries to steal Timmy away.
Timmy: Now you're talkin!
Male: Just the Five of Us, Friday nights on BBS!
Razor
Silent Hill in San Andreas...that's just creepy.
When the mist comes down and you're on your own in the woods...I can almost
see and hear the lickers and the flesh-eating monsters crawling through the
bushes.
Razor
"bryan" <br...@rimmer.red-dwarf.lan> wrote in message
news:pan.2005.08.29...@rimmer.red-dwarf.lan...
>
> http://www.sitcomsonline.com/diffrentstrokes.html
What u talkin' 'bout?
Cleve
>
> One of the best ideas I've heard is the introduction of animals.
Almost zero chance of that, from anything I've ever heard. One of the top
dogs at Rockstar is adamantly against animals in a GTA game and has said so
(even though Lara Croft has been blasting them for about 8 years). Not in a
GTA, he says.
--cleve
Cleve
"§ynchronizer" <Luke @TheForce.com> wrote in message
news:q194h19e5fnpjtjs9...@4ax.com...
> At GTA Domain we documented as many pedestrian
> saying as possible for Vice City, with brief descriptions
> of appearance, location found, and fight/no fight,
> if they jack, carry weapons, etc.
> So it was natural to do it for San Andreas. A lot
> of the website forums have these as threads, but they
> seem spaced out and random. So the moderators at GTA Domain
> try to keep order and coherency in the threads, we edit our later
> findings in the specific posts. Among others, I covered the SF cops,
> and many of the others are covering literally all the
> normal, and rare pedestrians. Hardly any screenshots, though.
>
Just forum conversations, though? Nobody's made a document yet, similar to
the auto characteristics documents that some sites have?
> That's
> how I got the Elvises and John Redcorn Indian guy in Fort Carson,
> corner them in a 24-7 store. Just when we write up like 30-40
> of their sayings, we'll hear another one.
The thing is, every ped has a whole battery of lines for EACH of a number of
situations: getting bumped; getting in a fight; having a gun held on them;
getting stopped in a car; getting hit in a car; getting yanked out of a car;
and many more, I'm sure. Almost impossible to fully document even ONE
character. (I remember reading in one of the pre-release articles that
pedestrian dialog recording sessions went from about fifteen minutes per
person for VC to about NINETY minutes for SA. Don't know if that's
accurate, but if it's even half that -- wow.)
>
> Also I finally recently saw the lemmings pedestrians.
> In LS, go to the Cluckin' Bell north of the Johnson House, and go in
> the back parking lot on a bike, or have wide angle camera view
> in a car. Face the Bell, forward, but look behind, to the telephone
> pole, sometimes they will be dropping, sometimes they go up it, then
> fall. Sometimes they die, sometimes they don't. In SF, near the
> cemetary across from the big white church near the Hippy Shopper
> asset, they never die, it's too short of a drop. In LV, go to the gym.
> Next to it is a car wash. I just started seeing this after "Madd Dogg"
> mission in my last 100% game. Drive to the back of the car wash, but
> stay in the alley. Adjust the camera to look at the tall building
> across the street, I think it's the Emerald Isle. Peds will walk off
> the roof, and survive, and keep on walking! This can only be seen in
> that certain position in the alley. Not in the actual car wash, but
> the alley.
>
Huh. Didn't know about these. I've seen some random things of the sort --
but I didn't know there were reliable ones.
--cleve
Cleve
>
> You can also prompt CJ to reply, although the dialogue box doesn't
> appear. Most of the time it's about clothing (Admittedly I've only
> noticed this through playing my 100% saves when CJ looks his buffest)
> but it's quite common for the peds to say stuff like 'Well, look who
> made it' and things of that nature.
>
Not sure the comments are always correctly matched to what CJ's state of
fitness is or what he's wearing. I've had people complement his shoes when
he wasn't even wearing any, and his clothes when he was wearing shit.
Hey. Also. I'm almost certain now that the positive/negative logic
reverses when CJ responds to groups of gang members (at least in SF, where
I'm exploring right now). If you want to be nice, hit the NEGATIVE button;
If you want to fight, hit the positive. Check it out when you get an
opportunity. See if you can confirm. (I can only guess that Rockstar did
that on purpose to mess with us -- get CJ shot up when we aren't expecting
it. You know. Programmer kicks.)
--cleve
@theforce.com §ynchronizer
>
>The thing is, every ped has a whole battery of lines for EACH of a number of
>situations: getting bumped; getting in a fight; having a gun held on them;
>getting stopped in a car; getting hit in a car; getting yanked out of a car;
>and many more, I'm sure. Almost impossible to fully document even ONE
>character. (I remember reading in one of the pre-release articles that
>pedestrian dialog recording sessions went from about fifteen minutes per
>person for VC to about NINETY minutes for SA. Don't know if that's
>accurate, but if it's even half that -- wow.)
good point. we've covered walking, personal conversations, fighting,
jacking, etc.....now i noticed the dope dealer conversation programs.
i'm sure there's tons more, in each situation.
Razor
"§ynchronizer" <Luke @TheForce.com> wrote in message
news:q194h19e5fnpjtjs9...@4ax.com...
>
> Also I finally recently saw the lemmings pedestrians.
> In LS, go to the Cluckin' Bell north of the Johnson House, and go in
> the back parking lot on a bike, or have wide angle camera view
> in a car. Face the Bell, forward, but look behind, to the telephone
> pole, sometimes they will be dropping, sometimes they go up it, then
> fall. Sometimes they die, sometimes they don't. In SF, near the
> cemetary across from the big white church near the Hippy Shopper
> asset, they never die, it's too short of a drop. In LV, go to the gym.
> Next to it is a car wash. I just started seeing this after "Madd Dogg"
> mission in my last 100% game. Drive to the back of the car wash, but
> stay in the alley. Adjust the camera to look at the tall building
> across the street, I think it's the Emerald Isle. Peds will walk off
> the roof, and survive, and keep on walking! This can only be seen in
> that certain position in the alley. Not in the actual car wash, but
> the alley.
>
Hey Luke, where in SF do I need to stand and what building should I look at
to see these.
I found the LV ones last night. The Los Santos lemmings was one of the first
weird things I found when exploring way back last November.
Thanks.
Cleve
"§ynchronizer" <Luke @TheForce.com> wrote in message
Yup. A subtle one is a near-miss with a vehicle. Drive a motorcycle right
by a ped without contact. They often yell something out as they jump out of
the way.
--cleve
@theforce.com §ynchronizer
Razor,
Where I saw them, was in that cemetary that looks like a veterans
monument park, in Kings I think it is. Across from the the big white
church (snapshot) near the Hippy Shopper asset. On the map, it's east
of the church, directly across the street. That would make it south of
the Hippy Shopper. Come to think of it, there's a snapshot floating
over the cemetary itself, as well. If you haven't gotten all the
snapshots yet, go ther at midnight and it will glow a dull oarnge
haze, seen without a camera, so that will be directly above the
cemetary.
There's elevated levels, and rows, you can walk up.
Spawning flowers in there. There's always pedestrians hanging around
or sitting on the benches inside the grounds.
It doesn't act like the other two lemmings spots. They have to be
scared off the second ledge. If you go up there and start shooting,
they run of the edge. So I went down to the ground level and did both
the shooting and fighting with a ped on the ground, they start
migrating off the second level. I had heard of this one so I tried it
out, that's pretty much all it is.
Razor
"§ynchronizer" <Luke @TheForce.com> wrote in message
Cheers. I know the place well, I just didn't know how to trigger the effect.
The LS one still seems the most bizarre with people appearing in the middle
of the pole and shooting upwards. I've taken to shooting them on their
travels.