Just how does splitting XP work?
Dundee
seeing in game.
Solo: I get xp from some things that con Green to me. If I group
with even one person, I get no xp from them. People here have been
saying that you don't get xp from green things, but I do.
Grouped: Last night I grouped with people lvl's 7, 8 and 9. I am
level 10. The 7, 8 and 9 people got xp from *everything*. I only got
xp from the tougher mobs. But people here have been saying that I
should get all the xp, being highest level, and that poor level 7 guy
would get none - but the opposite was the case.
Also, while grouped - sometimes I got xp from blue things and
sometimes I didn't.
Also, I've been grouped with lvl 11's when I was only lvl 7 or 8, and
I got xp from killing *everything* whereas the lvl 11 didn't get xp
from anything.
So what's the deal?
-
Dundee - http://dundee.uong.com/
Charles B. Naumann
experience message is correct. Sometimes hard to tell if the xp
bar has moved or not.
When solo, sometime I get xp from green, sometime not. Often
don't get any xp in groups for blue, but sometimes do.
I am clueless how it splits on the levels. This is a sensitive
issue. It cannot be based on damage, or that would screw the
bards and other 'healers'. If the split favor higher level
players, it hurts the group because the higher level players
will quickly out grow the rest of the group. Favoring the lower
level players might be good (an even split would favor lower level
players since they need less xp to level), but for other reasons
they want to avoid that.
I have also noticed that in the w. karanas, lions tend to give
more xp than giant spiders, although (to my character at least)
spiders are much more dangerous.
Charles Naumann
Dundee <Dun...@SPAMSPAMSPAM.COM> wrote:
: What people are saying here on this newsgroup doesn't match what I'm
Ian Fan
that would still draw you a few bars of health will usually give you
experience) and past level 15 you start getting green 'you might win this
fight, its not certain though..' those will give you experience but at lvl
17 I still get experience from some green death beetles (which i guess would
be the harder cons to lower level players).
Also if your party member that does the most damage goes link dead and
you and your group finish the monster you will get no experience and the
corpse will just disappear. And also maybe someone 'stole' your kill -- who
gets the kill is judged by which group (or person) does the most damage,
which in many cases is extremelly easy for even level 12 wizards to do since
they have Shock of Lightning (90dam spell).
And just because you got experience from a monster doesnt mean your
higher level party members will -- since it might be 'green' to them.
I hope you make some sense out of my confusing post but thats how it works.
Dundee wrote in message
<6FE996561D29D280.7ED3F56E...@library-proxy.airnews.ne
t>...
ken
Boarder line green will give ep, very little.
>Grouped: Last night I grouped with people lvl's 7, 8 and 9. I am
>level 10. The 7, 8 and 9 people got xp from *everything*. I only got
>xp from the tougher mobs. But people here have been saying that I
>should get all the xp, being highest level, and that poor level 7 guy
>would get none - but the opposite was the case.
No. You were grouped with wrong group, as a result they went for monsters
that gave them exp. If you weren't happy, find group that are going for
tougher monsters.
>Also, while grouped - sometimes I got xp from blue things and
>sometimes I didn't.
You probably got ep from all, perhaps packetloss etc made some message not
appear.
>Also, I've been grouped with lvl 11's when I was only lvl 7 or 8, and
>I got xp from killing *everything* whereas the lvl 11 didn't get xp
>from anything.
Fight right monsters for right level.
Dundee
wrote:
>>Grouped: Last night I grouped with people lvl's 7, 8 and 9. I am
>>level 10. The 7, 8 and 9 people got xp from *everything*. I only got
>>xp from the tougher mobs. But people here have been saying that I
>>should get all the xp, being highest level, and that poor level 7 guy
>>would get none - but the opposite was the case.
>
>No. You were grouped with wrong group, as a result they went for monsters
>that gave them exp. If you weren't happy, find group that are going for
>tougher monsters.
Sometimes the "attitude" expressed in this newsgroup just really
throws me. *What* are you talking about? The "wrong group" and "if
I'm not happy?" Uhm... huh? Nevermind.
I'm just asking how xp-splitting works.
People have been posting here that if a 10th lvl guy groups with a
bunch of 7th lvl guys, the 10th lvl guy will get all the xp and the
7th lvl guys won't get any.
And that is *not* what happens. My personal experience is that the
opposite happens.
>>Also, I've been grouped with lvl 11's when I was only lvl 7 or 8, and
>>I got xp from killing *everything* whereas the lvl 11 didn't get xp
>>from anything.
>
>Fight right monsters for right level.
In other words, you haven't a clue how splitting xp works, so rather
than answer the question, I get "you aren't doing it right."
Whatever.
Look, I don't know how the rest of the world plays, and I don't care.
I "group" with *my friends* and I don't care what level they are. We
fight critters that we, as a group, can defeat (and sometimes we fight
critters that we can't defeat, but I *know* what happens in those
situations).
I'm just curious why splitting-xp seems to work so differently from
how most people here are describing it.
Dundee
> Some of the 'harder' greens (the ones you know that arent *really* green
>that would still draw you a few bars of health will usually give you
>experience)
That's been my observation.
> Also if your party member that does the most damage goes link dead
Has never happened, so it doesn't explain why sometimes the high-level
guys don't get any xp and the low-level guys do.
>corpse will just disappear. And also maybe someone 'stole' your kill --
No one else in the dungeon but us, usually.
> And just because you got experience from a monster doesnt mean your
>higher level party members will -- since it might be 'green' to them.
That's what I've noticed - but people are posting here that if a high
level char' groups with a low level char', the high level person gets
all the xp. Seems to work to the low level char's advantage.
>I hope you make some sense out of my confusing post but thats how it works.
Sort of the opposite of how it has been described, then.
Phaedra
1)on NPCs that are tough enough for you to gain exp. on, the higher
level PC(s) in a group will get a "larger portion" of the exp. from that
kill. (to avoid twinking)
2)if you would normally not receive exp. from an NPC, even though the
lower level PCs that you are grouped with are gaining, you would still
not gain.
3)the lower level PCs probably got less exp. from the NPCs that were
green to higher level PCs because of being grouped with higher level
PCs.
4)yes there are some green NPCs that you can gain on, they would be the
some of the same ones that were risky to you just before leveling.
I don't know why you wouldn't get exp. from a blue kill unless another
PC/group got the exp.. Otherwise I'd /bug it.
It's really difficult to confirm examples 1) & 3) because the vagueness
of the bubble. But when I've grouped with higher level PCs for long
periods of time (and visa versa), the difference in gaining did become
obvious.
Dundee wrote in message
<6FE996561D29D280.7ED3F56E...@library-proxy.airnew
s.net>...
|What people are saying here on this newsgroup doesn't match what I'm
|seeing in game.
|
|Solo: I get xp from some things that con Green to me. If I group
|with even one person, I get no xp from them. People here have been
|saying that you don't get xp from green things, but I do.
|
|Grouped: Last night I grouped with people lvl's 7, 8 and 9. I am
|level 10. The 7, 8 and 9 people got xp from *everything*. I only got
|xp from the tougher mobs. But people here have been saying that I
|should get all the xp, being highest level, and that poor level 7 guy
|would get none - but the opposite was the case.
|
|Also, while grouped - sometimes I got xp from blue things and
|sometimes I didn't.
|
|Also, I've been grouped with lvl 11's when I was only lvl 7 or 8, and
|I got xp from killing *everything* whereas the lvl 11 didn't get xp
|from anything.
|
|So what's the deal?
|
Rob Beckett
said:
>
>That's what I've noticed - but people are posting here that if a high
>level char' groups with a low level char', the high level person gets
>all the xp. Seems to work to the low level char's advantage.
>
>>I hope you make some sense out of my confusing post but thats how it works.
>
>Sort of the opposite of how it has been described, then.
>
> -
>Dundee - http://dundee.uong.com/
I think the key is if the creature Cons red to the highest level
player and you kill it the highest lvl player will gain the most EXP.
If the creatuer Con's yellow to the highest level player and you kill
it, the highest level play will gain the most EXP. If the creature
Cons blue or green the highest level player may (most likely won't)
gain any EXP. My understanding is that Con does not take into account
groups. The hightest player is the one who should always use Con
command.
Rob
Remove(remove.this) to reply by e-mail.
"It is impossible to make anything foolproof,
because fools are so ingenious."
Roger Berg
Tony Llopis
Charles B. Naumann <cnau...@HiWAAY.net> wrote:
<SNIP>
>I am clueless how it splits on the levels. This is a sensitive
>issue. It cannot be based on damage, or that would screw the
>bards and other 'healers'. If the split favor higher level
>players, it hurts the group because the higher level players
>will quickly out grow the rest of the group. Favoring the lower
>level players might be good (an even split would favor lower level
>players since they need less xp to level), but for other reasons
>they want to avoid that.
What i've noticed is that, regardless of level differences, everyones
exp bars appear to move at the same rate when grouped. This would
mean that exp was getting divided proportionally by level which
fits in with what I've heard.
e.g. If a 8 9 and 10 are grouped, and they require 100, 200, and 300 exp
to level, and a kill gives the group 6 exp points, they would recieve
1, 2, and 3 experience respectively. This way, even though the highest
recieves 3 times the exp as the lowest, they all will gain levels at
around the same time, which fits in with what everyone I know is
experiencing.
If a member in a group is too high for the group, then the group
becomes 2 groups for experience purposes (the player who is too
high, and the rest of the group) and experience goes to whomever
does the most damage. The group is still counted as one for
looting purposes though.
These are my observations that I've made since P3 as far as group
experience goes. If anyone knows of any flaws or has additions
to this theory please feel free to point them out.
--
Tony Llopis
Fnord.
K. Laisathit
Rob Beckett <ro...@becketts.com.remove.this> wrote:
>
>I think the key is if the creature Cons red to the highest level
>player and you kill it the highest lvl player will gain the most EXP.
>If the creatuer Con's yellow to the highest level player and you kill
>it, the highest level play will gain the most EXP. If the creature
>Cons blue or green the highest level player may (most likely won't)
>gain any EXP. My understanding is that Con does not take into account
>groups. The hightest player is the one who should always use Con
>command.
My interpretation of this thing is that XP gain is also weighted
by monster-vs-party-member relative level. The reason a red
to the top guy in the team doesn't give the junior guy in the
team any XP is becuase the relative level is too high.
Conversely, a green-con monster will give the top guy nothing,
while giving the junior guy some XP.
The equation probably looks like:
XP gain = (1/(1+abs(mlvl-clvl)))x(base XP + group bonus)/#team member
where mlvl = monster level, clvl = char level. XP gain = 0
if abs(mlvl - clvl) > 5. There is probably a hidden anti-twinking
modifier somewhere in there too.
Later...
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
K I R A T I L A I S A T H I T kir...@u.washington.edu
Silverlock
wrote:
>On Tue, 6 Apr 1999 11:36:51 -1000, "ken" <rav...@hawaii.rr.com>
>wrote:
>
>>>Grouped: Last night I grouped with people lvl's 7, 8 and 9. I am
>>>level 10. The 7, 8 and 9 people got xp from *everything*. I only got
>>>xp from the tougher mobs. But people here have been saying that I
>>>should get all the xp, being highest level, and that poor level 7 guy
>>>would get none - but the opposite was the case.
>>
>>No. You were grouped with wrong group, as a result they went for monsters
>>that gave them exp. If you weren't happy, find group that are going for
>>tougher monsters.
>
>Sometimes the "attitude" expressed in this newsgroup just really
>throws me. *What* are you talking about? The "wrong group" and "if
>I'm not happy?" Uhm... huh? Nevermind.
>
>I'm just asking how xp-splitting works.
>
>People have been posting here that if a 10th lvl guy groups with a
>bunch of 7th lvl guys, the 10th lvl guy will get all the xp and the
>7th lvl guys won't get any.
>
>And that is *not* what happens. My personal experience is that the
>opposite happens.
>
>>>Also, I've been grouped with lvl 11's when I was only lvl 7 or 8, and
>>>I got xp from killing *everything* whereas the lvl 11 didn't get xp
>>>from anything.
>>
>>Fight right monsters for right level.
>
>In other words, you haven't a clue how splitting xp works, so rather
>than answer the question, I get "you aren't doing it right."
>
>Whatever.
>
>Look, I don't know how the rest of the world plays, and I don't care.
>I "group" with *my friends* and I don't care what level they are. We
>fight critters that we, as a group, can defeat (and sometimes we fight
>critters that we can't defeat, but I *know* what happens in those
>situations).
>
>I'm just curious why splitting-xp seems to work so differently from
>how most people here are describing it.
>
> -
>Dundee - http://dundee.uong.com/
If I had to guess, and I do ;-) the exp formula would look something
like this.
There are two calculations. The first would be... Is this player
challenged enough by this monster to award him EXP if he wins?
The second would be ... What percentage of the group work did this
particular player do?
X= your level
Y= Monster level
Z = Total "Group" level or power.
This is my guess at the equation. The three is a level modifier and is
probably not a constant. It probably some value either taken from a
table or from an equation that gives the possible range of difference
over the 50 levels.
( (X- 3) - Y) / ( X/Z)
This means that the pool of exp to be gained from each creature isn't
a fixed amount split up to the group but instead each player is given
exp based on their level versus the creature, considering the total
group power and their part in it. Note that in this equation it would
be theoretically possible for a level 40 and a level 2 to group and
kill a level 30 creature and the level 40 would get no exp because he
is so much higher but the level 2 would gain a small but appreciable
amount of experience, even though he made up such a small part of the
group. To combat this twinking measure there would also be a minimum
acceptable (X/Z) value in the code somewhere which would say basically
this character didn't contribute anything meaningful to the fight so
he gets nothing.
Also note that since each char is computed both as a character and
part of the group it is possible for a group to fight creatures and
for the high level character in the group to not get exp while the
lowers do. The lowers would get a smaller percentage though then if
they fought (and won of course) on their own because they are a
smaller portion of the total fighting power.
Chris Sanders
> I have also noticed that in the w. karanas, lions tend to give
> more xp than giant spiders, although (to my character at least)
> spiders are much more dangerous.
>
> Charles Naumann
I think the reason lions give more xp is because they are actually a
higher level than spiders. Spiders have been blue to me for several
levels, at least 3 or 4 I think (i'm at 12 now), and are still blue.
Lions only turned blue a level or two ago (forgive my memory, but the
levels are starting to blur together). I believe the only reasons
spiders are still blue is because of their poison, which can make a
pretty big difference in a long fight, or at least it seems to.
Cristos - Halfing Druid and slayer of giant spiders (giant spiders are
an abomination, dontcha know).
Guardian23
within a couple of levels of the entire party, and observe the xp gain for
the same type of creature with all the party members. If the higher lvl
characters aren't getting any measurable xp and the lower lvls are, then the
higher lvl person may want to break off and hunt with another group. If the
lower lvl person is not getting any noticeable amount(or a much lower cut)
then that person may want to split off and join wit h people closer to their
lvl.
You should be able to figure out the numbers for whatever you are hunting in
10 or so creatures by observing xp gains or lack of it. Just because it says
that you have gained party xp does not mean that you are getting anything
you will notice. I have been grouped with a person that was 4 lvls above my
own lvl. and it told me I gained xp every time we killed something. But
after about 2 hours, I asked how much xp he had gotten and he said he had
gotten 3 bubbles so far, I had only gotten about half of one bubble. So,
always know where everyone starts when fighting creatures, always /con
things, and check the results. This is not to say that both the previous
postings are not absolutely correct, it's just easier to get generalized
info rather than specifics :)
Great job on the formula though, I wish I was skilled enough in math to
figure that one out :(
--
Dorian
High Elf Cleric
Povar
K. Laisathit wrote in message <7egc3a$8a0$1...@nntp1.u.washington.edu>...
:In article <370ba8b6....@news.psnw.com>,
Dundee
wrote:
>where mlvl = monster level, clvl = char level. XP gain = 0
>if abs(mlvl - clvl) > 5. There is probably a hidden anti-twinking
>modifier somewhere in there too.
So unless you are deliberatly trying to twink-up a low-level player,
we can all justy forget about the who-can-group-with-whom nonsense?
From what I've seen in-game, that seems to be the case. And if so,
GREAT.
K. Laisathit
Hold on for a sec. This is just a conjecture on my part.
My guess is that it doesn't pay to group with people of
greatly different levels. The basic problem isn't so
much that the game distributes XP according to level, but
that a group of high level players + 1 or 2 juniors
will fight white, yellow or low red to the highest level
player in the party. To the juniors in the party, these
critters are so red that the anti-twinking algorithm
starts to have a serious effect.
Rumor has it that the anti-twinking modifier has lesser
effect at high level, allow more grouping flexibility.
We'll just have to wait and see if this is true.
J. Schneider
got no exp from them he yes. But he got muss less exp. then doin it alone.
So we disbanded and I just backuped him and he got much more exp. for doin
the same thing a before.
Funny. I think if I dont get exp he should have get all exp. But it seem
that my part of the shared exp went down the drain.
Jorus
Nick Ali
rogue and a 12th rougue (I was an 11 necro with pet). The highest
level guy was selecting the kills of course. With this set up we dould
be pretty sure what critters where 11 or 12. To cut to the chase same
level crits seemed to give different exp. You know how sometimes you
get 3 fizzles in a row whith a spell you know inside out ? similar
with the crocs we were hunting virtualy nothing a coupel of times then
steady. Even factoring in when the pet dealt the last blow (not often)
It was hard to see a proper pattern.
One thing I believe is that when a critter spawns it is determined
what it cons as. i think there is a chance that this may be high or
low.
John Alcock
I've definitely had different individuals of the same monster type con
differently.
John
--
Work: jal...@NOSPAMwatson.ibm.com
Home: jal...@NOSPAMct1.nai.net
Angmar
monsters like snakes bats rats etc. Guess that's just to keep it simple for
the new people who don't know about "/con"ing and such. But in upper levels
the same monster can have a range of 3 levels or so. Like a lurking mummy
could be 18-20, always best to con first!
John Alcock <jal...@NOSPAMwatson.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:370cdcc4....@mdnews.btv.ibm.com...
Morgana
K. Laisathit <kir...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>In article <370ba8b6....@news.psnw.com>,
>Rob Beckett <ro...@becketts.com.remove.this> wrote:
>>
>>player and you kill it the highest lvl player will gain the most EXP.
>>If the creatuer Con's yellow to the highest level player and you kill
>>it, the highest level play will gain the most EXP. If the creature
>>Cons blue or green the highest level player may (most likely won't)
>>gain any EXP. My understanding is that Con does not take into account
>>command.
>
>My interpretation of this thing is that XP gain is also weighted
>by monster-vs-party-member relative level. The reason a red
>to the top guy in the team doesn't give the junior guy in the
>Conversely, a green-con monster will give the top guy nothing,
>while giving the junior guy some XP.
>
>The equation probably looks like:
>
>XP gain = (1/(1+abs(mlvl-clvl)))x(base XP + group bonus)/#team member
>
>if abs(mlvl - clvl) > 5. There is probably a hidden anti-twinking
>modifier somewhere in there too.
>
>--
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>K I R A T I L A I S A T H I T kir...@u.washington.edu
Hm. I'm not sure I buy your formula. Let me propose an
alternative.
When you kill any monster, the XP you receive is adjusted by some
function of the monsters level and your level. I don't know what
formula they use to reduce experience for easy monsters and raise
experience for hard monsters, but I imagine it is just a constant
factor that depends on your level and the level of the monster or
possibly just on the difference between your levels. In a group,
each person uses their own relative difficulty weight, as opposed
to using the weight for the most experienced party member. Given
that we don't even know if a different number of XP points are
needed for each level, I don't think we can say much about this
function.
DiffFactor = F(MyLevel,MonsterLevel) or F(MyLevel-MonsterLevel)
My guess is that the experience is distributed as a weighted
average of character level. So, say you are in a group of three
people, levels 4, 6, and 10. The total of your levels is 20.
When you kill a monster, each person gets MyLevel/TotalLevels of
the experience. The level 10 would get 10/20=1/2 of the total
experience, the level 6 would get 6/20=3/10 and the level 4 would
get 4/20=1/5. (It could be that the scale is further tweaked by
weighting as the square of your level or some other function.)
Those group members who do not receive any XP due to their high
level are not counted in the split (which would explain why the
low level guys do much better when you fight wimpy monsters).
Split = MyLevel/TotalLevels
So, when the group kills something, you multiply the base
experience for the monster by your level split and the relative
difficulty weight.
MyXP = MonsterXP * Split * DiffFactor
--
Morgan
Nick Ali
same level as you in theory. I dont think they always are.I think that
when a monster spawns there is a random chance that it will con high
or low. e.g.
90% con correctly
5% con 1 level lower than the critter really is
5% con 1 level higher than the critter really is
If this is done I guess its to keep people on there toes. Or it could
possibly be that there are real runtas at any particular level. Or by
the same token Uber monsties.
Nick
Paolo Pace
group of 4's and 6's then anything that cons green to the 10th means no xp's
for him and all for the rest. This might also change based on who kills the
creature. If the 10th kills it and it was green I've heard that it can
destroy the groups chances as getting any xp's no matter what the levels.
The only other thing worth mentioning is that the higher level you are the
less of a problem it is to group with higher levels. An 18th lvl can join
with a 23 or 24 level without suffering. The xp difference is negligible.
My 2 cents on the matter.
Paolo.
> Hm. I'm not sure I buy your formula. Let me propose an
> alternative.
> DiffFactor = F(MyLevel,MonsterLevel) or F(MyLevel-MonsterLevel)
>
> My guess is that the experience is distributed as a weighted
> average of character level. So, say you are in a group of three
> people, levels 4, 6, and 10. The total of your levels is 20.
> When you kill a monster, each person gets MyLevel/TotalLevels of
> the experience. The level 10 would get 10/20=1/2 of the total
> experience, the level 6 would get 6/20=3/10 and the level 4 would
> get 4/20=1/5. (It could be that the scale is further tweaked by
> weighting as the square of your level or some other function.)
> Those group members who do not receive any XP due to their high
> level are not counted in the split (which would explain why the
> low level guys do much better when you fight wimpy monsters).
>
> Split = MyLevel/TotalLevels
> --
> Morgan
Michael Ferro
: All monsters will vary in level. Only ones that don't are the smallest of
: monsters like snakes bats rats etc.
Except that I attacked a rat in Qeynos Hills last night withoug conning it
(it was just a rat, jeez) and it almost killed me. I had to use the lay
hands skill to keep me alive. It turned out to con yellow to me (L3
paladin). This was one killer rat. I'm more careful now with all newbie
monsters. Hey, an EQ lesson learned without requiring a death! Now
that's a victory.
Zuniat - Qeynos, E'Ci
Ian Fan
and -/+ 8 for above which is why.
Paolo Pace wrote in message <7el26r$k...@tandem.CAM.ORG>...