WHO WANT ALCHEMY FIXED?
Cindy Andrie
WHO ANTS ALCHEMY FIXED?
--
Jazzingly,
Cindy Andrie
Unable to locate Coffee - Operator Halted!
Ba'Klomp
trade skill. Remember rogues with poison? You really shouldn't expect to
be made into a super-shaman with this trade skill.
I would rather Verant fix Shaman's stat buffs, so they actually do
something. it is our main ability after all.
Cindy Andrie <cinde...@home.com> wrote in message
news:6GA14.4161$U7.1...@news1.gvcl1.bc.home.com...
Legen Thorn
who you calling an ANT?
Daniel DeAngelis
Well, I play a ranger, but have been looking into the alchemy skill (what's
out there so far) and I can see it being something to have a great
potential! Most of the recipes create an OK spell effect, but I can see if
they took Alchemy to higher levels and added the ability to make Gate
potions, Invis potions, Complete Heal potions, Alacrity and Quickness
potions, etc..
I would have to make a shaman my best friend to help pay for all the
quickness potions hehe. Hopefully the prices will be reasonable and the
effects will last as long as the level of the shaman that made it? Or a set
amount of time that makes your money well spent?
Anyhow... yeah, I can see Alchemy being a VERY useful and inexhaustable
trade comodity in the game.
Cassiel Truepath
42 Ranger of Povar
Aurora
jkprice
As a monk, the class I love grouping with the MOST is a shaman. At level
36, with a full set of shaman buffs, all my physical stats are so high and
my hit points are so buffed I fight 5 levels higher than I am...shaman buffs
are the BEST.
(Especially love grouping with a shaman AND an enchanter...augmentation
stacks with agility buffs, and provides both a speed increase in attacking,
and 20 extra agility...get my agility close to 200 and attack faster...I
love it!)
"Ba'Klomp" <w...@worldmailer.com> wrote in message
news:FPB14.682$IX4.1...@news1.rdc2.tx.home.com...
> Feh. I don't really give a damn.. if added it will just be another
useless
> trade skill. Remember rogues with poison? You really shouldn't expect to
> be made into a super-shaman with this trade skill.
>
> I would rather Verant fix Shaman's stat buffs, so they actually do
> something. it is our main ability after all.
>
jon shen
Elbryn
-39 shaman rodcet nife
Paul Phillips
Cindy Andrie wrote:
>
> Lets see how many votes we can get (take notice Brad) =)
>
> WHO ANTS ALCHEMY FIXED?
>
> --
> Jazzingly,
> Cindy Andrie
>
> Unable to locate Coffee - Operator Halted!
--
----------------------
"If you loved me..."
ICQ 27745391
http://wwp.icq.com/27745391
http://www.redirect.to/il128 It sucks. No really, it sucks.
Ba'Klomp
I've never seen a test to prove it.
All the stat tests I have seen have been on Shamans, Paladins and Warriors.
Here is a small STR test done on an Ogre Warrior. It's the smallest buff
test I have saved, so if you want to see bigger, more elaborate ones
(complete with graphs, tables and charts), just ask. Though they all draw
pretty much the same conclusion: STR and DEX have little to no effect.
______________________________
Ok I ran two tests this morning. I couldn't get the Str range I wanted
because some of my items also affect Dex and I didn't want Dex to come into
play at all. Also I didn't test any one handers or have the bard swing at me
because I only had so much time and wanted to get 1 test with decent results
rather than 3 tests that were shaky. In both tests I was swinging at
Vallara, a 20th level bard. Her defense and dodge are maxed out for 20. Her
AGI was 90, DEX 95, and her AC was 290 (due to no armor). Her stats remained
the same during both tests. I am a 19th Ogre Warrior. My double attack and
2handed skill are both maxed out. I used a Grobb Cleaver (15/45). My Dex is
86. The above stats for me remained constant in both tests. I included ALL
the numbers for every swing and hit for all you stat guru's out there.
Test 1:
Str: 168
Attack: 495
Total Swings: 101
Normal Hits: 59
Misses: 39
Was Dodged: 1
Crit Hits: 2
Crit Swings: 59 and 56
Highest Damage from normal hit: 35
Lowest Damage from normal hit: 7
Damage-Hits
7-1
8-1
10-2
11-2
13-1
14-1
15-1
17-1
21-1
24-1
25-2
28-32
29-2
30-2
32-1
33-1
34-1
35-1
Avg damage a hit: 25
Test 2:
Str: 220
Attack: 541
Total Swings: 101
Normal Hits: 51
Misses: 43
Was Dodged: 6
Crit Hits: 1
Crit Swings: 73
Highest Damage from normal hit: 40
Lowest Damage from normal hit: 11
Damage-Hits
11-1
12-1
14-1
15-1
16-2
17-1
18-1
20-1
22-1
23-1
25-1
28-21
30-1
32-1
33-1
34-5
35-3
36-2
38-2
39-2
40-1
Avg Damage per hit: 28
Only advantage I can see from the extra 52 points of Str was damage. I was a
little suprised to be skill blocked more with the higher Str, but I think
that was just a coincidence. If I had time to do more swings than 101 per
test, I think skill blocking would probably even out. I think the hit-miss
percentage would also even out. I will redo the test once I hit 20th and max
out my skills. This way we'll see how things change. I would be willing to
redo the tests using Dex as the test stat but I just don't have the means to
raise it much. If anyone wants to buff it up around 7 am EST this week on E.
Marr, let me know and I'll be there.
Smoosh
E Marr
________________________
He missed more with higher strength, and only hit for 3 more points of
damage. You can see why Shamans are getting angry over this.. giving that
warrior 3 extra points of damage is our main ability! Again, if you want to
see more tests just ask.
Blart Ba'Klomp
Troll Shaman
Rallos Zek
Dorian Brytestar
of a lot more damage as soon as I got the 20th lvl str bonuses.
Karok
lvl 21 Ogre Warrior
--
Dorian Brytestar
Lvl 39 High Elf Cleric of Tunare
Povar
"Ba'Klomp" <w...@worldmailer.com> wrote in message
news:c8D14.742$IX4.1...@news1.rdc2.tx.home.com...
: I think stats effect monks differently than they do any other class, but
:
:
:
:
Adar
Brad McQuaid <bmcq...@verant.com> wrote in message
news:384748B0...@verant.com...
> It is not broken. It works. It certainly needs to be improved (i.e.
> more products, better products), but it works fine.
>
Err, Brad...I know you're a reasonable person, so I'm going to assume you're
misinformed.
Aside from the potions, Alchemy is broken for the basic reason that you
*can't train* the skill. It's permanently stuck at zero due to a bug (trade
skills can't be trained past 21- and alchemy is obtained at 25, which means
if you could put a point in it, you'd train it past the limit. Ergo, no one
can make the skill go up.) The result is that making any potion except one
is equivalent to trying to make banded with a zero skill- not happening.
Sure, the skill is in the game, but not broken? That's not even a question.
Hell, the trainers training everything up to 200 for free warranted an
emergency patch and server shutdown; can you at least make the skill
trainable so that people can TRY to improve in it?
Brudo (E'ci)
Loredaeron (E'ci)
> Cindy Andrie wrote:
>
> > Lets see how many votes we can get (take notice Brad) =)
> >
> > WHO ANTS ALCHEMY FIXED?
> >
> > --
> > Jazzingly,
> > Cindy Andrie
> >
> > Unable to locate Coffee - Operator Halted!
>
> --
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> Brad McQuaid
> Producer, EverQuest www.everquest.com
> Vice President, Verant Interactive Inc.
> ---------------------------------------------
>
>
Brad McQuaid
more products, better products), but it works fine.
Cindy Andrie wrote:
Sam Schlansky
<384748B0...@verant.com>:
>It is not broken. It works. It certainly needs to be improved
>(i.e. more products, better products), but it works fine.
No, it does not work.
1) You can't train in the skill at your guildmaster.
2) You don't gain skill improves when you make potions.
3) Any class can do it, not just shamen.
4) The product is absolutely, totally, useless for the amount of work
required. Nobody in the entire game uses this skill.
Brad, do us all a favor here, okay? Be honest. Given the above there
is no way you can say that alchemy works as intended... unless of
course it's intended to be BROKEN.
You know that alchemy doesn't work, and it isn't very high on your
priorities to fix it. That's cool. We can understand that there are
many other problems that deserve to be fixed first. So just SAY THAT.
Honesty is a good thing and it gains you respect, while flat out
lying does not. Don't try to spin the truth with us, we're not
kiddies on your messageboards-- this is Usenet and PR crap doesn't
sit well here.
I'm assuming that you're lying because I can't imagine that the lead
designer and producer of a game MUST have some knowledge of it. If
you somehow didn't realize that alchemy was broken and neglected to
check up on it before responding, then I do apologize for calling you
a liar. Oblivious yes, liar no.
So which is it?
Sam
>Cindy Andrie wrote:
>
>> Lets see how many votes we can get (take notice Brad) =)
>>
>> WHO ANTS ALCHEMY FIXED?
--
/| Sam Schlansky <sam[at]operation3d[dot]com>
/| I speak for myself only unless noted otherwise.
/| PGP Key ID: 0x63A9D707
/| 3DNews.net: News With Perspective!
/| 3DHardware.net: Taking Your Machine To The Third Dimension!
/| Remove "deletethis" to email.
Paul Phillips
No, It's broken.
Paul
Brad McQuaid wrote:
>
> It is not broken. It works. It certainly needs to be improved (i.e.
> more products, better products), but it works fine.
>
> Cindy Andrie wrote:
>
> > Lets see how many votes we can get (take notice Brad) =)
> >
> > WHO ANTS ALCHEMY FIXED?
> >
> > --
> > Jazzingly,
> > Cindy Andrie
> >
> > Unable to locate Coffee - Operator Halted!
>
> --
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> Brad McQuaid
> Producer, EverQuest www.everquest.com
> Vice President, Verant Interactive Inc.
> ---------------------------------------------
--
Daniel DeAngelis
trip to Halas.....blah....
Here's what I found in my research:
1. About 15 different Recipes for useful alchemical potions.
2. Half of the components needed could be easily bought from the vendor in
Halas, whereas the other half are not too uncommon items you can get from
killing mobs.
3. The most useless (combat-wise) is the potion that cures the common
drunk. A simple and cheap recipe that makes a good novelty item and
possibly good for improving skill (if it gets implemented)
4. You jump from a potion that costs about 3sp to make to the next cheapest
ingredient, which ran me about 8pp, then 13pp and so on to around 110pp for
ONE ingredient!!! Ok, so we are getting to be into the financial category
of jewelcraft here.
5. The potions that you make, are pretty much like spells that can be cast
by various classes.
6. The insane amount of money that it would cost to make these potions with
temporary, semi-useful buffs, is just insane.....
7. Alchemy needs a LOT LOT of work if it's ever going to be remotely
useful... Work on the pricing, availability, variety, maybe even give it to
other classes as well.... I dunno, but it NEEDS WORK.
Why it's pretty useless now:
So I can drop 20pp per try into a water breathing potion..... If I was
heading to Kedge and didn't fail 3 or 4 times, it would make a very useful
backup for me. So what about spending 18pp on a potion that ups my fire
resistance? (Or giving an auction to have someone cast it on me for 1pp)
All the potions that I found (now giving the benefit of the doubt, I was not
able to check duration or full effect, but I highly doubt that I am off in
my assumption) were a way to carry a spell with you anywhere you go that
cost you about 100 times the amount you could pay a PC to cast buffs on you
for.
This would be much different if there was a gate potion, but what would the
ingredients cost? 300pp?? Sure if it was cheap, people would be loading up
on gate potions and heading into lower guk.... but look.. just kill me and
I'll keep my 300pp per attempt and put that towards something I can fight
with to keep me from needing to gate..
Ahh well.. my two cents..
Gresh
several problems, any one of which make for a BROKEN skill, and all of
which together make for a TOTALLY BROKEN skill.
See the other replies you already have received for some details.
Gresh
Qualm, Barbarian Shaman, E'ci
Alasdair Allan
Dorian Brytestar <ri...@nospam.com> wrote in article
<s4e6pb...@corp.supernews.com>...
> You should try again with a 20+ Lvl and see if that info holds up. I hit
for a heck
> of a lot more damage as soon as I got the 20th lvl str bonuses.
How many tests do you want.
10?
20?
1000?
Its been tested time and time again and the conclusion is simple. Stat
buffs are irrelevant. Shamans should *never* be wasting the mana they cost.
If you are grouped with a Shaman who spends their time buffing stats and
they refuse to do something productive they are a leeching scumbag and
should be kicked.
--
Alasdair Allan, Ibrox, Glasgow |England - Country where Marx developed
x-st...@null.net | the basis of Communism
X-Static's Rangers Webzine |Scotland - Country where Smith developed
http://www.x-static.demon.co.uk/ | the basis of Capitalism
Alasdair Allan
> This would be much different if there was a gate potion, but what would
the
> ingredients cost? 300pp?? Sure if it was cheap, people would be loading
up
> on gate potions and heading into lower guk.... but look.. just kill me and
> I'll keep my 300pp per attempt and put that towards something I can fight
> with to keep me from needing to gate..
Indeed you need to be very careful.
Having Shamans able to make a Gate potion they could profitably sell at the
10 to 20pp mark would be stupid! It would be incredibly stupid! Almost as
stupid as if you were to allow one class a monopoly on making any useful
item with a trade skill - say the Enchanter class - or you allowed one or
two classes a virtually unlimited supply of money by gating others across
the world.
Oops.
Jeff Hoppe
Skin like Snake (a plus 15 Charisma Buff?)
Jeff
Cadfael, EM
PS. Still looking for another Karl Strauss Party....
Brad McQuaid <bmcq...@verant.com> wrote in message
news:384748B0...@verant.com...
Daniel DeAngelis
>Having Shamans able to make a Gate potion they could profitably sell at the
>10 to 20pp mark would be stupid! It would be incredibly stupid! Almost as
>stupid as if you were to allow one class a monopoly on making any useful
>item with a trade skill - say the Enchanter class - or you allowed one or
>two classes a virtually unlimited supply of money by gating others across
>the world.
>
>Oops.
>
Whoa! Hehe I never meant to suggest 10-20pp as a price range! Did I say
something to give you that impression?
Yeah, that's just waaaay too low, IF they implemented gate potions. I was
also refer to cost and not sell price. I thought a COST of 300pp to make is
way too high. Heck, even selling them for 300pp is a bit steep for me. (of
course maybe not for others).
Just my opinion that maybe a cost of about 90-100pp to make a potion and
maybe sell them for 150pp? I could see that as being useful.....
Touchstone
Though they all draw
> pretty much the same conclusion: STR and DEX have little to no effect.
I coulda told you THAT =)
My dex works almost exactly the same at 70 as it does at 142
My str works almost exactly the same at 164 as it does at 127
Now Agility works
Being a Barbarian Warrior, I'm not to sure about wisdom and intelligence
=)
Conclusion: The stats are hollow in chunks of 20's, 50's and up.
This all means that items are basically of little value in Everquest in
terms of Autonomy. This, not even taking into account how little worth
levels are in terms of Autonomy as well.
Touchstone-
Who ponders the telling story of a Lupine Claw Guantlet with 4AC, 3STR
and 3DEX, that sell for at least 3000pp. What does this say about
Everquests ability to get players to do inordinant amounts of work for
little or no result?
Ba'Klomp
news:384748B0...@verant.com...
> It is not broken. It works. It certainly needs to be improved (i.e.
> more products, better products), but it works fine.
.. this saddens me.
Is there any wonder why Shamans question when Verant nerfs us?
dstep
<jhoppe1...@home.com> wrote:
Errrr... wtf? Dang I just feel like I had a brain fart...
Brad THINKS that alchemy in eq works? Are we
playing the same ga.. oh WAIT, now i remember
he doesn't actually play a shaman in EQ like
I do so he would not know that you can't ever
raise your alchemy skill so it is
BROKEN
BROKEN
BROKEN
Wake the hell up and play your own damn game
so you know this.
>Brad, Do you know that the initial potion has been changed to act like a
>Skin like Snake (a plus 15 Charisma Buff?)
>Brad McQuaid <bmcq...@verant.com> wrote in message
>news:384748B0...@verant.com...
>> It is not broken. It works. It certainly needs to be improved (i.e.
>> more products, better products), but it works fine.
>>
>> Cindy Andrie wrote:
>>
>> > Lets see how many votes we can get (take notice Brad) =)
>> >
>> > WHO ANTS ALCHEMY FIXED?
Here is my impression of Brad if he was
president and someone asked if the Star Wars
defense system would ever be developed:
Brad: Oh, it is working right now yep,
any missles fly by and it will shoot them down!
Maybe you can't see it though it is really big
and I can see it looming in the sky, but I assure
you that it is there and works fine!
D
Daniel DeAngelis
I'm not a shaman......but I like the potential alchemy can have if you guys
can balance it properly...... Be nice if all classes can do it, but hey, I
guess that would have to be discussed as a game balance as well....
JubJub McRae
wrote:
>
>
>Brad McQuaid wrote:
>
>> It is not broken. It works. It certainly needs to be improved (i.e.
>> more products, better products), but it works fine.
>
>Actually, I'm wrong. We were testing it internally wrong, and it
>appeared to
>work. After investigating further and talking to many shamans in-game,
>it was clear it didn't, and we made a change to code today (which should
>be up on the test server soon). Once the fix is tested and goes live
>(perhaps 2 weeks or so), shaman should get the alchemy skill at level
>25, be able to train in it, and be able to raise their skill by making
>potions. We are still not happy with the overall usefulness vs. cost of
>most potions that one can make, but at least it will work.
>
>I apologize for this and for the fact that it took so long to be
>recognized.
In the future then, please don't be so quick to brush off those bug
reports we send in and the like... shaman have been saying alchemy is
broken for a LONG time - well before I even started my shaman in
August. As an aside, take a look at the disease DoT line of spells
please.. we were told that there were going to be some "interesting
things" added to it right after the first round of dot changes (the
halving of duration, doubling of per tick damage, which improved the
poison line immensely, but did little for the disease line, which are
still pretty much useless in group situations due to the long time
needed to achieve full potency and justify the mana costs), but which
have not been implemented, hinted at or even mentioned since.
Gresh
successfully getting a "strong dose" of poison on something actually
decreased as your poisoning skill increased. For six months we hammered at
the Dev Team to fix it, and eventually someone looked at the code, and sure
enough there was a less-than sign (<) where there should have been a
greater-than (>) sign. Soooo simple, if only someone had bothered to
believe us and checked sooner!
Glad you checked.
Gresh
Qualm, Barbarian Shaman, E'ci
Brad McQuaid wrote:
> Brad McQuaid wrote:
>
> > It is not broken. It works. It certainly needs to be improved (i.e.
> > more products, better products), but it works fine.
>
> Actually, I'm wrong. We were testing it internally wrong, and it
> appeared to
> work. After investigating further and talking to many shamans in-game,
> it was clear it didn't, and we made a change to code today (which should
> be up on the test server soon). Once the fix is tested and goes live
> (perhaps 2 weeks or so), shaman should get the alchemy skill at level
> 25, be able to train in it, and be able to raise their skill by making
> potions. We are still not happy with the overall usefulness vs. cost of
> most potions that one can make, but at least it will work.
>
> I apologize for this and for the fact that it took so long to be
> recognized.
>
Paul Phillips
Thank you,
Paul
Brad McQuaid wrote:
>
> Brad McQuaid wrote:
>
> > It is not broken. It works. It certainly needs to be improved (i.e.
> > more products, better products), but it works fine.
>
> Actually, I'm wrong. We were testing it internally wrong, and it
> appeared to
> work. After investigating further and talking to many shamans in-game,
> it was clear it didn't, and we made a change to code today (which should
> be up on the test server soon). Once the fix is tested and goes live
> (perhaps 2 weeks or so), shaman should get the alchemy skill at level
> 25, be able to train in it, and be able to raise their skill by making
> potions. We are still not happy with the overall usefulness vs. cost of
> most potions that one can make, but at least it will work.
>
> I apologize for this and for the fact that it took so long to be
> recognized.
>
> --
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> Brad McQuaid
> Producer, EverQuest www.everquest.com
> Vice President, Verant Interactive Inc.
> ---------------------------------------------
--
John Henders
>Brad McQuaid wrote:
>> It is not broken. It works. It certainly needs to be improved (i.e.
>> more products, better products), but it works fine.
>Actually, I'm wrong. We were testing it internally wrong, and it
>appeared to work.
Would this be the same person who tested the new bard songs several
months ago by targetting himself and signed off on them working without
even bothering to try them on a bat in the newbie area? Maybe it would
be an idea to find someone with some professional testing experience to
do your testing. Either that or actually start reading the /bug reports
people submit.
--
Artificial Intelligence stands no chance against Natural Stupidity.
GAT d- -p+(--) c++++ l++ u++ t- m--- W--- !v
b+++ e* s-/+ n-(?) h++ f+g+ w+++ y*
John Henders
>... Alchemy works better than it did
>before. Where's the nerf?
Boy Dan, you sure must feel stupid now that Brad's actually admitted
that in fact, it didn't work. It's amazing what you can miss when your
nose is up that deep isn't it?
Alasdair Allan
> This is out of line from the original thread, but let me ask you a
question?
> What kind of jewelry do you wear? I guess warriors should never bother
> buying any stat-providing jewelry, right?
My Shaman has Wisdom and (because he is a *caster*) Dexterity jewellery.
Most casters do not get involved in combat so they don't rely on
channelling so Dexterity isn't that vital for them./
For tanks, no stat buffs are effective.
My Paladin has about 20pts of Str (so he can carry *anything*), thats it.
Jerry The Cow
statement that alchemy wasn't broken, and was ready to notify the loony bin.
-Manlaven
"Brad McQuaid" <bmcq...@verant.com> wrote in message
news:3848E2DB...@verant.com...
>
>
> Brad McQuaid wrote:
>
> > It is not broken. It works. It certainly needs to be improved (i.e.
> > more products, better products), but it works fine.
>
> Actually, I'm wrong. We were testing it internally wrong, and it
> appeared to
Beeyar
Trade skill can only be trained up to 25
Since you get alchemy at level 25 you can't train a point in it since that
would make it 26.
Just give shaman alchemy at level 24 and the problem is solved.
You train 1 point it hit's 25 and you can start building skill. It seems
almost too easy to fix I can't figure out why it is still broken.
Heresy <m...@here.com> wrote in message news:82agbl$es0$1...@news.teleteam.net...
> What!? It isn't broken? I'm almost speechless at this statement. If
Alchemy
> isn't broken can you please explain why I cannot train with my master, I
> have a 0 skill in Alchemy (it does NOT show up in my skills box), every
> potion shows up as trivial when you try to make it (but all but the very
> cheapest fail a a rate consistant with a 0 skill), since every potion show
> as trivial it is impossible to raise the skill and the cheapest potion
> (which you can actually make a fairly consistant percentage of the time)
> doesn't even make the potion it is supposed to? This is not broken? I am
> stunned by this statement.
>
> Skaank Fleshrott
> 50th Level Troll Shaman
>
>
> Brad McQuaid <bmcq...@verant.com> wrote in message
> news:384748B0...@verant.com...
> > It is not broken. It works. It certainly needs to be improved (i.e.
> > more products, better products), but it works fine.
> >
> >
<DL>
(and many others) send in bug reports all of the time. I don't know
that a single bug I've found has ever been fixed. People bitch about
stuff like alchemy every single day on the newsgroup and in-game. Is
this one of those cases where you have just been ignoring us because
you think you know better?
For the first time the other I experienced the joys of mobs
teleporting all over the zone when running away from you in Qeynos
Hills. (never played a newbie there before this last week) I
remember people complaining about this months and months ago.
Three days ago I died from a 425hp fall while swimming in Crushbone.
People have complained about the death by falling while swimming since
the game was released.
The problem with lore items sometimes disappearing when you die or log
out was still in the game last month. That one has been around quite
awhile too.
People are sending in /bug reports every day. Maybe if you actually
tested out the bugs that are reported you would fix problems like this
a little quicker? I know when I get bug emails at my job, somebody on
our team had better get on it that same day.
On Sat, 04 Dec 1999 09:42:19 GMT, Brad McQuaid <bmcq...@verant.com>
wrote:
>
>
>Brad McQuaid wrote:
>
>> It is not broken. It works. It certainly needs to be improved (i.e.
>> more products, better products), but it works fine.
>
>Actually, I'm wrong. We were testing it internally wrong, and it
>appeared to
>work. After investigating further and talking to many shamans in-game,
>it was clear it didn't, and we made a change to code today (which should
>be up on the test server soon). Once the fix is tested and goes live
>(perhaps 2 weeks or so), shaman should get the alchemy skill at level
>25, be able to train in it, and be able to raise their skill by making
>potions. We are still not happy with the overall usefulness vs. cost of
>most potions that one can make, but at least it will work.
>
>I apologize for this and for the fact that it took so long to be
>recognized.
<DL>
<Narise on Karana>
<The easy arrogance of a cat is an art.>
Skip Sanders
"Beeyar" <lu...@one.net> wrote in message news:3849e...@news1.one.net...
> A fix for alchemy would be simple.
> Trade skill can only be trained up to 25
> Since you get alchemy at level 25 you can't train a point in it since that
> would make it 26.
> Just give shaman alchemy at level 24 and the problem is solved.
> You train 1 point it hit's 25 and you can start building skill. It seems
> almost too easy to fix I can't figure out why it is still broken.
You can only train trade skills to 20, not 25. So you'd have to get alchemy
at level 20 for it to work under the current code.
>
> Heresy <m...@here.com> wrote in message
news:82agbl$es0$1...@news.teleteam.net...
> > What!? It isn't broken? I'm almost speechless at this statement. If
> Alchemy
> > isn't broken can you please explain why I cannot train with my master, I
> > have a 0 skill in Alchemy (it does NOT show up in my skills box), every
> > potion shows up as trivial when you try to make it (but all but the very
> > cheapest fail a a rate consistant with a 0 skill), since every potion
show
> > as trivial it is impossible to raise the skill and the cheapest potion
> > (which you can actually make a fairly consistant percentage of the time)
> > doesn't even make the potion it is supposed to? This is not broken? I am
> > stunned by this statement.
> >
> > Skaank Fleshrott
> > 50th Level Troll Shaman
> >
> >
> > Brad McQuaid <bmcq...@verant.com> wrote in message
> > news:384748B0...@verant.com...
> > > It is not broken. It works. It certainly needs to be improved (i.e.
> > > more products, better products), but it works fine.
> > >
> > >
Cindy Andrie
care of... thx for the Great work!!
--
Jazzingly,
Cindy Andrie
Unable to locate Coffee - Operator Halted!
"Brad McQuaid" <bmcq...@verant.com> wrote in message
news:3848E2DB...@verant.com...
>
>
> Brad McQuaid wrote:
>
> > It is not broken. It works. It certainly needs to be improved (i.e.
> > more products, better products), but it works fine.
>
> Actually, I'm wrong. We were testing it internally wrong, and it
> appeared to
> work. After investigating further and talking to many shamans in-game,
> it was clear it didn't, and we made a change to code today (which should
> be up on the test server soon). Once the fix is tested and goes live
> (perhaps 2 weeks or so), shaman should get the alchemy skill at level
> 25, be able to train in it, and be able to raise their skill by making
> potions. We are still not happy with the overall usefulness vs. cost of
> most potions that one can make, but at least it will work.
>
> I apologize for this and for the fact that it took so long to be
> recognized.
>
Michael Jacobs
Verant must be VERY overworked and burned out on the game if such a thing as
the Alchemy "overlook" could possibly happen. I did Feedbacks on this at
least
once a month for the last several months. Entire Shaman websites exist and
have
petitions to fix Alchemy. I think everyone past level 30 on any server knew
perfectly
good and well that Alchemy wasn't trainable by Shaman since at SOME point in
the
last 9 months they asked a Shaman "Hey why can't you make potions? Surely
you
have enough money now".
When a player knows more about the game than a designer then thats an
indication
that something is not right. When EVERYONE knows more about the game than
the designer thats the sign of a disaster. It sounds like Verant needs new
blood
working on the game. They need to actually listen to the playerbase when
they tell
them something is wrong. Amazingly enough the playerbase of this game
doesn't
consist of idiots, it is made up of professionals, scientists, doctors,
fellow game
designers, and many many others. Players of the game know the backstory
better
than the designers since I don't think the designers have even bothered to
READ the
backstory since they sent the manual off to duplication. The overall whole
of EQ
doesnt make much sense anymore because the very people who should know the
overall whole intimately are too busy fixing the various minor details to
notice that
LARGE things are messed up and this Alchemy thing is just proof of it.
UO taught us all that the hard part of an online game doesnt end with it
shipping to
retail...thats where it BEGINS. Its increasingly obvious from the customer
service
problems, from the lack of cohesive plotlines, from patch after patch after
patch of
minor fixes and alterations to the game system that Verant's workforce is
tired of
dealing with the monster they created...all the while they are trying to
make a major
retail add-on which will only magnify the problem.
I think Brad and Verant in general need to sit down for a moment on monday
morning and ask themselves how such a blatant thing could have gotten past
them.
Its not just that their internal testing was faulty...its that their mindset
was faulty and
unless they fix the mindset the game is going to fall apart.
If their mindset wasnt messed up they would have said to themselves "people
are
complaining about Alcehmy...it works when I try it, yet they still complain.
Maybe I
should ask some shamans in game why they are complaining since I must have
missed something". That is what finally happened and the problem was easily
resolved at that point but the 4 month gap between those two sentences
indicates
that something is very very wrong at Verant.
Perhaps they need a better way of being informed of what the problems areas
are.
Obviosuly the GM and guide reports are not being read, or rather not being
read carefully since
surely to Brell SOMEONE included the lack of training for Alchemy in a
report at somepoint in
the last 9 months. If the guides and GMs generate far too much information
for Verant to reasonably
use then they need to work on a distillation process. Get some of the more
knowledgable guides
or better yet the players themselves or the webmasters from the most well
respected websites in the
community to identify the key problem areas or parts of the game to focus
attention on. Simply
skimming the boards once in awhile and trying to wade through the posts here
is NOT going to work.
There are many solutions to the problem that come readily to mind...Verant
just needs to adopt
one.
Qhue of the Tunare server
AKA
Michael Jacobs
mja...@astro.spa.umn.edu
gippah
sent their way, or at the very least do not follow up to see the accuracy of
the messages.
Granted, they probably get a lot of really inane things thrown there way by
a lot of prepubescents (this newsgroup can attest to that) but something
like this is on the inexcusable side.
If I was the boss, it'd be time for me to either seriously consider firing
some people or drastically changing my business strategy. An incident like
this one should not have gone on for so long, someone should have noticed.
Michael Jacobs wrote in message ...
Michael A. Main
this is a sign that they're starting to realize their in-house testing
methods just don't cut it sometimes, and playing the game as we - the
customers - do is the only way to truly judge whether a
system/skill/spell/etc really works.
Looking forward to more/better response from Brad on gameplay issues in
the future - I hope this isn't an isolated bonus.
M. Ashton Smith
news:bFn24.5031$U7.2...@news1.gvcl1.bc.home.com...
> WOW thx Brad! I'm sure I can say We ALL appreciate that this is being
taken
> care of... thx for the Great work!!
I'm so glad that some people can see this as a positive move by Brad. All I
can see is a bug that has been reported a minimum of 100 times (according to
the Shamen message boards) - and completely ignored until the issue became
public. I'm sure Verant has to sift through some pretty asinine feedback to
get to the valid bugs, but this one was pretty straight forward and has been
noted continuously for quite some time. I'm sorry that their "testing
methods" could not replicate the error, but instead of marking the issue
report as "closed", they might, no SHOULD, have taken the time to contact
the reporter for further details instead of sticking their head in the sand.
You say "thx for the Great work!!", I say "thanks, and in the future please
address these issues in a timely and professional manner".
-------------------------------------------------------------------
M. Ash Smith "People used to dream about the future;
San Antonio, Texas they thought there was no
ashsmith[at]satx.rr.com limit to progress."
"Somewhere along the way - that future got cancelled."
Michael Short
And a quick THANK YOU to Cindy Andrie:
There may be lots of petitions and newsboards out there, but
Cindy's was the right message at the right time -- Alchemy
may finally work for real!
Cindy Andrie wrote:
> Lets see how many votes we can get (take notice Brad) =)
>
> WHO ANTS ALCHEMY FIXED?
>
Alasdair Allan
> >Having Shamans able to make a Gate potion they could profitably sell at
the
> >10 to 20pp mark would be stupid! It would be incredibly stupid! Almost
as
> >stupid as if you were to allow one class a monopoly on making any useful
> >item with a trade skill - say the Enchanter class - or you allowed one or
> >two classes a virtually unlimited supply of money by gating others across
> >the world.
> >
> >Oops.
>
> Whoa! Hehe I never meant to suggest 10-20pp as a price range! Did I say
> something to give you that impression?
My fault - should have said "profit margin".
> Yeah, that's just waaaay too low, IF they implemented gate potions. I was
> also refer to cost and not sell price. I thought a COST of 300pp to make
is
> way too high. Heck, even selling them for 300pp is a bit steep for me.
(of
> course maybe not for others).
>
> Just my opinion that maybe a cost of about 90-100pp to make a potion and
> maybe sell them for 150pp? I could see that as being useful.....
There will be no useful potions that are player created.
Larry Comeau
highlighted as one when you roll your character). Strength is only good
for getting max damage from a weapon and for carrying ability. After a
certain point strength does nothing really. Almost any high level
warrior I ever talk to is looking for DEX and AGI boosts, not strength.
-------------------
Larry Comeau
Alchemy may be fixed soon!
I don't care if it is profitable or not, I just wanted to have a skill
all my own to roleplay my character better; one that worked! It was a
huge disappointment to get my Ogre Shaman to level 25 and find out
Alchemy was broken, especially since there was absolutely NO
documentation in the game,readme's, or even on the website to suggest it
was still broken. I will be very, very happy when it gets fixed!
Ogran Wyrmbane
Greenblood Shaman of the 29th season
Seekers of Lore - TM
----------------------
Cindy Andrie
No Thx Necessary... I just wanted to see it fixed like everyone else... I
think my timing was just lucky! I am just happy that Alchemy will be
working correctly!
--
Jazzingly,
Cindy Andrie
AKA
Aslasa Havenloc ~ Barbarian Shamaness ~ The Tribunal Server
Unable to locate Coffee - Operator Halted!
"Michael Short" <mic...@zantaz.com> wrote in message
news:384ADD61...@zantaz.com...
nov...@gate.net
Posted By: Tallin Strongbear
Friday, 14 May 1999, at 11:44 p.m.
Well I attained level 25 but didnt have time to travel to Halas to
train until I reached level 26. Upon trying to train in Alchemy a
skill that I supposedly recieve at level 25 I am greeted with the
message "Advanced skills must be learned in the field" or something to
that nature. The system will not let me use a practice point to "learn
the basics". I assume that is because the skill cap for trade skills
is around 20-25 to train them at a Trainer. As you can see this means
we can never use Alchemy as we can never learn the basics.
I am not sure its even working (how could anyone know through if they
cant train it to get it started) but I am sure I am screwed now as
when I saw the above message for some reason I thought I had the skill
and used the rest of my practice points on languages. So even if they
raise the cap so we can train I will now have to wait another level to
get the skill.
Searched all of Halas, Grobb and Oggok for the Alchemy books to no
avail. I really hope the book has just been forgotten and not put in
another city. That would be just plain stupid as Barbarians, Trolls
and Ogres are the ONLY Shamans and I believe are the only ones that
get the skill. One would think the book would be in one of their
starting cities or all of them.
Tallin
This was posted by me to the old beta boards read by the developers
and also to the Guide/GM boards as I was still a Senior Guide at the
time.
The response from the beta board was that "I will send this to the
trade skills guy" and the response from the Guide/GM board was if I
remember correctly "It is not high on the priority list right now".
I sent numerous feedbacks in game and had discussions with other
Guides, GM's and Developers back when I was really frustrated with
this skill and was still a Senior Guide and understood it not being
high up on the priority list as they had some real stability problems
and some serious bugs to deal with back then..but that was 7 months
ago and they did know all about the problem.
I only post this because I found Brad's admission that "they just
figured out something was wrong" to be particularly offensive when I
know for a FACT they have know about it for quite some time.
Tallin Strongbear
Level 49 Shaman
Fentil the Forgetful
Retired Senior Guide
On Sat, 04 Dec 1999 09:42:19 GMT, Brad McQuaid <bmcq...@verant.com>
wrote:
>
>
isad...@esisusa.com
help. I am not sure what skills will work like this but people say all the
time you have to put points into things like 2hb and stuff, but you don't.
If you had enough money, could you just practice till you got 1 point in
alchemy without actually going to the guildhall to get trained?
<nov...@gate.net> wrote in message news:384d51fa...@news.gate.net...