The NERF List concerning Shamans
Froggy
SHAMAN:
Brad says:
+ Added Shrink Spell
Should not have been made only indoor dungeon castable. How many ogres
get stuck zoning INTO sol b because there are always zone sitters
blocking the way? My ogre worked hard to get factions up in areas like
Rivervale to find out there's no way she can fit her big toe in any of
the door of their huts. I love shrink and am shrunk all the time, but
it would have been more helpfull to have been made cast anywhere.
Brad says:
- Took too long to recognize Alchemy bug
Took WAY too long!!! And it's still taking too long to see ANY
enhancements made to this skill! EVERY single skill out there has been
enhanced in some way, but Alchemy is not even working, the potions you
can make are usually bugged and give the wrong effect, no one WANTS
these silly potions that can be made, and the regents to make the
potions are outrageous. It's beyond way too long that we do NOT have a
viable shaman only skill.
Brad says:
- High Level (39+) Pets weakened
Weakened...just a bit! My husband's level 34 pet cons higher than my
level 39 pet. Can you say High Level 39+ pets WIMPED.
Brad says:
+ Added more Class Specific Quests
Ahhhhhh shaman quests. None worthwhile in my opinion. For the armor,
the only piece I want is the helm that has +wis. The shaman quest you
get from Mardra (sp) made my poor shaman kos with the trolls. Great
quest....rolls eyes.
Brad says:
+ Added more Class Specific Items
Whooohooo we can now FINALLY get a piercing weapon. Granted, it's from
Kedge Keep where it's the equivelant of going to Russia from
California. And hey, there's no npc there that's not kos to my orge
even AFTER killing tons of goblins that will buy and sell to me. Some
of these items could have been situated more closer to Ogre/Barbarian
home.
Brad says:
+ Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
Don't even go here, this was for ALL meditating classes, not just
shamans.
Brad says:
+ Made Malise stack better and removed recasting time
Nice nice, but still for me this spell is resisted most the times by the
mobs that I need to cast it on.
Brad says:
+ Better Pet Pathing
Again, wasn't this to benifit all pet making classes? Need to be able
to tell pet to STAY too. I would like to bring something I'm pulling
all the way to my party before my pet jumps it halfway there.
Brad says:
- DOTs changed negatively, making Kiting less efficient
Hated kiting, tried it once and shook the whole time. So I guess I
really have no opinion on this one.
Brad says:
+ DoT changed positively to enhance group play
Okay, this is a biggie with me. I for one belive that it's gone way
over board with group play. Granted, this is a group game, but there is
not enough for people to solo. Those of us who can't play for hours on
end would like to be able to come on for an hour and just wack things
for a while. Group play vs soloing, this game caters too much to
grouping and I have seen many people log off the game because they
cannot find a group. In fact I've seen a few people who have cancelled
their accounts because it's too group oriented on EQ. I agree, dungeons
and harder areas should be made group oriented, but creating more
outdoor type mobs that can be solo'd by those above level 25 would be so
much nicer. So if you're someone who likes to solo, this addition of
dots to enhance group play is a - not a +.
Brad says:
+ DoT's Made Stronger
Again, only really made stronger for group play and should be lumped
with the above +.
Brad says:
+ Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
through your pet
Guess this was fixed before I hit 34 to get a pet. No opinion from me
on this since it never happened to me.
- Removed Charm Spell
Removed it yep and it was fun running around with a Kodiak for a pet.
This spell I used only for amusement. Did we ever see a replacement for
this being taken away? Not to my knowledge but I could be wrong.
+ Increased the Duration of Buffs
I have seen very minor increase of duration of buffs. The good spells
really don't last long. Chloroplast lasts aproximately 12 minutes for
200 mana. Quickness lasts maybe 2 rounds of fights if I'm lucky. Sow is
good but the only players asking me for a sow are the lower level
characters who don't have jboots. Guess I shouldn't have specialized in
alteration to the max because my buffs just don't last long enough to be
in demand.
I know this has turned into a book. But I sadly believe that the shaman
class, like alchemy, has been neglected. In fact, Everquests version of
a shaman is hardly like any I have read about. Shamans traditionally
are the masters of herbal arts, shapechanging, healing, divination, and
spiritual travel. Shamans on EQ can't even forage, when part of
shamanistic training actually deals with being able to FIND herbs,
regents and healing plants. Yes, like the druids and the wood elves,
shamans are in tune with nature, they just have a tendency to see both
the evil and good in it.
Enough for my rant.
Froggy aka Wiggle on Xegony
Ba'Klomp
> Brad says:
> + Made Malise stack better and removed recasting time
> Nice nice, but still for me this spell is resisted most the times by the
> mobs that I need to cast it on.
Actually the recasting time is still there. That has never been modified to
my knowledge. I wonder who told brad they removed recasting time.. maybe
the same guy who said Alchemy is working fine?
> I know this has turned into a book. But I sadly believe that the shaman
> class, like alchemy, has been neglected. In fact, Everquests version of
> a shaman is hardly like any I have read about. Shamans traditionally
> are the masters of herbal arts, shapechanging, healing, divination, and
> spiritual travel. Shamans on EQ can't even forage, when part of
> shamanistic training actually deals with being able to FIND herbs,
> regents and healing plants.
We weren't given forage, but we do have summon food & water. It would be
nice if we could forage herbs used in Alchemy, so we could make potions
while hunting. I think it would be fun to hand out small healing potions
and disease cures to my group as I make them.
Don't forget that the Shaman is still a very good class. While our main
ability (stat buffing) is questionable, we still have some damn fine spells.
I just hit lvl 39 with my Troll Shammy, and i've been _soloing_ Hill Giants
all day. Not kiting, but right up there toe-to-toe soloing.
Are any other classes able to solo Hill Giants at 39 without some form of
kiting? I would guess maybe Necro or Magician, but i've never seen them do
it.
Alasdair Allan
> Brad says:
> + DoT's Made Stronger
> Again, only really made stronger for group play and should be lumped
> with the above +.
DOTS MADE STRONGER.
This really gets my fucking goat.
Poison was made slightly stronger. Disease was destroyed.
NO CLASS IN THE GAME HAS SUFFERED AS LARGE A NERF AS THE SHAMAN.
Plague pre nerf - 5500 damage over 10 minutes.
Plague post nerf - 1100 damage over 2 minutes.
THATS AN *80* PERCENT NERF.
What is more they lied about the change they said "we halved the time and
doubled the damage". In actual fact they havled the poison time and *kept
the same damage*, they destroyed the Disease time and *kept the same
damage*.
At least they went back and doubled the Poison damage and made a minor
increase to the Disease damage but Disease is still pointless in 95% of
solo fights and 99.9% of group fights.
Shamans have *no* DD at high levels. 430 damage Blizzard Blast is
pointless against any mob (not to forget they *hugely* increased Cold
Resistance and they didn't give Shamans a "Fire" spell like they gave
Druids with Ice. DoTs are the way we do damage, so make Disease useful.
Double the current damage over the same length of time would work. Or half
the time so its similar to Envenomed Bolt - one of the better spells there
is.
--
Alasdair Allan, Ibrox, Glasgow |England - Country where Marx developed
x-st...@null.net | the basis of Communism
X-Static's Rangers Webzine |Scotland - Country where Smith developed
http://www.x-static.demon.co.uk/ | the basis of Capitalism
Sam Schlansky
>Had to do it, I have to pick the list apart for shaman's nerf.
>
>
>SHAMAN:
>Brad says:
>+ Added Shrink Spell
>Should not have been made only indoor dungeon castable. How many
>ogres get stuck zoning INTO sol b because there are always zone
>sitters blocking the way? My ogre worked hard to get factions up
>in areas like Rivervale to find out there's no way she can fit her
>big toe in any of the door of their huts. I love shrink and am
>shrunk all the time, but it would have been more helpfull to have
>been made cast anywhere.
Hopefully, shrink will be made castable everywhere real soon now. The
argument against it is simply that it's silly to have EVERYONE
walking around shrunk-- but that doesn't hold much water when my
barbarian can't bank in kelethin.
Anyway, they know about this problem, and since it's a real valid
reason to change shrink, at least there's light at the end of the
tunnel.
>Brad says:
>- Took too long to recognize Alchemy bug
>Took WAY too long!!! And it's still taking too long to see ANY
>enhancements made to this skill! EVERY single skill out there has
>been enhanced in some way, but Alchemy is not even working, the
>potions you can make are usually bugged and give the wrong effect,
>no one WANTS these silly potions that can be made, and the regents
>to make the potions are outrageous. It's beyond way too long that
>we do NOT have a viable shaman only skill.
Verant *knows* that alchemy doesn't produce worthwhile product. This
will come eventually.
>Brad says:
>- High Level (39+) Pets weakened
>Weakened...just a bit! My husband's level 34 pet cons higher than
>my level 39 pet. Can you say High Level 39+ pets WIMPED.
Huh? I assume your husband is a magician?
>Brad says:
>+ Added more Class Specific Quests
>Ahhhhhh shaman quests. None worthwhile in my opinion. For the
>armor, the only piece I want is the helm that has +wis. The
>shaman quest you get from Mardra (sp) made my poor shaman kos with
>the trolls. Great quest....rolls eyes.
That's hardly their problem. The armor quests were intended to
replace rubicite. If your shaman wore any rubicite, now you've got a
FAR superior (barring the breastplate) replacement for it AND don't
need to camp in Cazic.
>Brad says:
>+ Added more Class Specific Items
>Whooohooo we can now FINALLY get a piercing weapon. Granted, it's
>from Kedge Keep where it's the equivelant of going to Russia from
>California. And hey, there's no npc there that's not kos to my
>orge even AFTER killing tons of goblins that will buy and sell to
>me. Some of these items could have been situated more closer to
>Ogre/Barbarian home.
With the newest patch, there are oodles of piercing weapons.
>Brad says:
>+ Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
>Don't even go here, this was for ALL meditating classes, not just
>shamans.
So? It's still an enhancement bucko.
>Brad says:
>+ Made Malise stack better and removed recasting time
>Nice nice, but still for me this spell is resisted most the times
>by the mobs that I need to cast it on.
You're bitching about THIS change? Do you have any idea how nice this
is at high level?
>Brad says:
>+ Better Pet Pathing
>Again, wasn't this to benifit all pet making classes? Need to be
>able to tell pet to STAY too. I would like to bring something I'm
>pulling all the way to my party before my pet jumps it halfway
>there.
I have no idea wtf they changed with pets. They seem stupid as ever
to me.
(snip)
>Brad says:
>+ DoT changed positively to enhance group play
>Okay, this is a biggie with me. I for one belive that it's gone
>way over board with group play. Granted, this is a group game,
>but there is not enough for people to solo. Those of us who can't
>play for hours on end would like to be able to come on for an hour
>and just wack things for a while. Group play vs soloing, this
>game caters too much to grouping and I have seen many people log
>off the game because they cannot find a group. In fact I've seen
>a few people who have cancelled their accounts because it's too
>group oriented on EQ. I agree, dungeons and harder areas should
>be made group oriented, but creating more outdoor type mobs that
>can be solo'd by those above level 25 would be so much nicer. So
>if you're someone who likes to solo, this addition of dots to
>enhance group play is a - not a +.
No, it's still a plus, for group play. For soloing, if you root and
dot they're more effective than they were before.
>Brad says:
>+ DoT's Made Stronger
>Again, only really made stronger for group play and should be
>lumped with the above +.
Actually, all of the disease dots were made WEAKER.
>Brad says:
>+ Corrected Bug that let monsters attack you from far distances
>through your pet
>Guess this was fixed before I hit 34 to get a pet. No opinion
>from me on this since it never happened to me.
It only happened when you rooted the monster and your pet attacked...
something that shamen don't do very often, since our pets can't take
much of a beating.
>- Removed Charm Spell
>Removed it yep and it was fun running around with a Kodiak for a
>pet. This spell I used only for amusement. Did we ever see a
>replacement for this being taken away? Not to my knowledge but I
>could be wrong.
We still have charm animals. You can still charm a kodiak. But no, we
never got a replacement for plain ol' charm.
(snip)
Sam
--
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Larry Comeau
> >Brad says:
> >+ Added more Class Specific Items
> >Whooohooo we can now FINALLY get a piercing weapon. Granted, it's
> >from Kedge Keep where it's the equivelant of going to Russia from
> >California. And hey, there's no npc there that's not kos to my
> >orge even AFTER killing tons of goblins that will buy and sell to
> >me. Some of these items could have been situated more closer to
> >Ogre/Barbarian home.
>
> With the newest patch, there are oodles of piercing weapons.
>
I think this is a perfect example of how Verant really needs to give us
more information, and sooner. When I saw this message after the patch
yesterday I was very pissed! Here I am with my new Shaman at level 29,
struggling to keep my 1H and 2H blunt skills maxed. I would have kept
piercing up as well but I didn't feel it was worth it for the simple
fact that the only "easily" obtainable piercing weapon we could use was
the Bronze Main Gauche, which is a shitty weapon. All of a sudden Verant
adds a multitude of spears we can use.... DAMN. Level 29 and I have to
try and bring my piercing skill up about 120 points! ;-( Why the hell
couldn't they have announced that they at least MIGHT be adding new
piercing weapons back when they made the decision to do it? At least
then, those that wanted too could start training up in it again.
Also, in the thread "Re: Unannounced changes have to stop" someone makes
mention of the NPC stat boosting Verant did. What might not be known by
a lot of people is that they didn't just up the levels of some NPC
guards yesterday, but did some during last week's patch as well, and
never mentioned it then. And I did DIE as a direct result of this
withholding of information. I was running to South Karana a few days ago
and I crossed the stone bridge to zone. I am an Ogre and I an KoS to the
guards there, but at level 29 this didn't worry me as I had played in
South Karana for many levels and knew the guards on the NK side very
well... or so I thought.
For basically my whole "game" life, I could run across the bridge in
plain sight and zone with only a couple of minor hits from the 2 green
guards at the back, and maybe one good hit from the Captain there. So,
off I go, running through on SoW just as I have done a thousand times,
when WHAM.. "hit for 112... hit for 95... Bash for 45... hit for 115...
etc..You are stunned.... etc...etc... DEAD"!! WTF? I go back to get my
corpse and I see the two guards that used to be very low green to me are
now yellow, and that the two Captains now spawn on the bottom floor AND
that Lieutenant Frederick also hangs around inside, as well as that
Brother something or other.. turns out also the Captain from upstairs,
that now is on the bottom, is like level 40+... Sheesh!
I lost a full bubble and my level for the very simple fact that Verant
can't seem to document their own modifications to the game.
Ogran Wyrmbane
Greenblood Shaman of the 29th season
Seekers of Lore - Tarew Marr
Sam Schlansky
<384FAD50...@home.com>:
>Sam Schlansky said...
>
>> >Brad says:
>> >+ Added more Class Specific Items
>> >Whooohooo we can now FINALLY get a piercing weapon. Granted,
>> >it's from Kedge Keep where it's the equivelant of going to
>> >Russia from California. And hey, there's no npc there that's
>> >not kos to my orge even AFTER killing tons of goblins that will
>> >buy and sell to me. Some of these items could have been
>> >situated more closer to Ogre/Barbarian home.
>>
>> With the newest patch, there are oodles of piercing weapons.
>>
>I think this is a perfect example of how Verant really needs to
>give us more information, and sooner. When I saw this message
>after the patch yesterday I was very pissed! Here I am with my new
>Shaman at level 29, struggling to keep my 1H and 2H blunt skills
>maxed. I would have kept piercing up as well but I didn't feel it
>was worth it for the simple fact that the only "easily" obtainable
>piercing weapon we could use was the Bronze Main Gauche, which is
>a shitty weapon. All of a sudden Verant adds a multitude of spears
>we can use.... DAMN. Level 29 and I have to try and bring my
>piercing skill up about 120 points! ;-( Why the hell couldn't they
>have announced that they at least MIGHT be adding new piercing
>weapons back when they made the decision to do it? At least then,
>those that wanted too could start training up in it again.
Here's my understanding of the "shamen with piercing weapons" issue.
One guy at Verant always wanted to see his shaman with a spear, which
seems reasonable since druids can use scimitars. It all balances out-
- druids get 1H-slash, but only scimitars, and shamen get piercing,
but only spears.
So, shamen were given the skill and it was made trainable. Somewhere
along the line, however, that was missed-- and so most spears were
NOT made usable by shamen.
I brought this up with brian hook a few days ago and he said that he
had been working on getting shamen spears for awhile now. I guess it
just made it to production servers in the latest patch.
Don't bitch about getting your skill up at level 29. It's EASY to get
your skill up at 29... it gets much, much harder later on when even
greens hit for 80.
>Also, in the thread "Re: Unannounced changes have to stop" someone
>makes mention of the NPC stat boosting Verant did. What might not
>be known by a lot of people is that they didn't just up the levels
>of some NPC guards yesterday, but did some during last week's
>patch as well, and never mentioned it then. And I did DIE as a
>direct result of this withholding of information. I was running to
>South Karana a few days ago and I crossed the stone bridge to
>zone. I am an Ogre and I an KoS to the guards there, but at level
>29 this didn't worry me as I had played in South Karana for many
>levels and knew the guards on the NK side very well... or so I
>thought.
Abso-fucking-lutely correct. They hired Gordon specifically to avoid
bullshit like that. So far, he's gone through his first patch message
and had absolutely no impact whatsoever. I just hope that he "wasn't
up to speed yet" and didn't do this latest patch message...
otherwise... sigh.
>For basically my whole "game" life, I could run across the bridge
>in plain sight and zone with only a couple of minor hits from the
>2 green guards at the back, and maybe one good hit from the
>Captain there. So, off I go, running through on SoW just as I have
>done a thousand times, when WHAM.. "hit for 112... hit for 95...
>Bash for 45... hit for 115... etc..You are stunned....
>etc...etc... DEAD"!! WTF? I go back to get my corpse and I see the
>two guards that used to be very low green to me are now yellow,
>and that the two Captains now spawn on the bottom floor AND that
>Lieutenant Frederick also hangs around inside, as well as that
>Brother something or other.. turns out also the Captain from
>upstairs, that now is on the bottom, is like level 40+... Sheesh!
>
>I lost a full bubble and my level for the very simple fact that
>Verant can't seem to document their own modifications to the game.
Well said, so I won't snip it.
Noslom
>
>Plague pre nerf - 5500 damage over 10 minutes.
>
>Plague post nerf - 1100 damage over 2 minutes.
>
>THATS AN *80* PERCENT NERF.
>
>What is more they lied about the change they said "we halved the time and
>doubled the damage". In actual fact they havled the poison time and *kept
>the same damage*, they destroyed the Disease time and *kept the same
>damage*.
>
>At least they went back and doubled the Poison damage and made a minor
>increase to the Disease damage but Disease is still pointless in 95% of
>solo fights and 99.9% of group fights.
It would be insane to scale damage per tick and duration the same
when they modify these spells. It would be adding far too much power
(scale it all into one tick and plague would make IC look like crap.)
So the doubled the dmg per tick and scaled the duration by 1/5.
Also some shamans I know use that spell line fairly often so there
are some people who do use it and find it usefull.
Just because you have no use for a spell/spell line does not mean others
don't. I've met clerics who never purchased reckless str, in Kith if you
have no real buffers reckless str will do fine to get rid of the strength
debuff the wolves give you. Out of all my paladin spells so far (lvl 42)
I can't find a SINGLE useless spell. I have used and find a use for
them all. Some I cast just to train the skill (sense magic) others I
experiment with to see if in certain situations they work well.
Course casting Yaulp II and reckless str over and over to carry a ton
of orc pawn picks from west FP to east FP to get some lottery tickets
might not be done often but I did use Yaulp II :)
Noslom
James
<postm...@x-static.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>Shamans have *no* DD at high levels. 430 damage Blizzard Blast is
>pointless against any mob (not to forget they *hugely* increased Cold
>Resistance and they didn't give Shamans a "Fire" spell like they gave
>Druids with Ice. DoTs are the way we do damage, so make Disease useful.
>Double the current damage over the same length of time would work. Or half
>the time so its similar to Envenomed Bolt - one of the better spells there
>is.
Double the plague damage to 2200 per 2 mins? Then we will see lots of
shamans kiting Ig around. Cast DOT1, wait till the giant turns to pet,
cast DOT2, run run run till the giant dies. The 33% damage loss will
be easily compensated by the pet hitting.
Pet, chainmail, DOT, SOW, Tigor, buffs .... You just can't have
anything :)
And your DD is as good as that of Necro and enchanter.
James
wrote:
>
>I think this is a perfect example of how Verant really needs to give us
>more information, and sooner. When I saw this message after the patch
>yesterday I was very pissed! Here I am with my new Shaman at level 29,
>struggling to keep my 1H and 2H blunt skills maxed. I would have kept
>piercing up as well but I didn't feel it was worth it for the simple
>fact that the only "easily" obtainable piercing weapon we could use was
>the Bronze Main Gauche, which is a shitty weapon. All of a sudden Verant
>adds a multitude of spears we can use.... DAMN. Level 29 and I have to
>try and bring my piercing skill up about 120 points! ;-( Why the hell
>couldn't they have announced that they at least MIGHT be adding new
>piercing weapons back when they made the decision to do it? At least
>then, those that wanted too could start training up in it again.
I don't see your point. You can still use your 1H/2H blunt if you
like. Verant hasn't taken anything away from you. It is an enhancement
to shaman, not a nerf.
It you choose physics as your career, but later find computer engineer
can easily earn twice as much. Whose fault is this ?
Rob Beckett
I just find it funny that you (Alasdair) in one post tells us how
a Shaman can do everything in a group but bake bread.
Who knows maybe they can bake bread too.
Then in the next post how they have been nerfed
to the point of being nearly usless.
Which is it?
On Thu, 09 Dec 1999 11:09:09 GMT, "Alasdair Allan"
<postm...@x-static.demon.co.uk> said:
>Froggy <fro...@gci.net> wrote
>> Brad says:
>> + DoT's Made Stronger
>> Again, only really made stronger for group play and should be lumped
>> with the above +.
>
>DOTS MADE STRONGER.
>
>This really gets my fucking goat.
>
>Poison was made slightly stronger. Disease was destroyed.
>
>NO CLASS IN THE GAME HAS SUFFERED AS LARGE A NERF AS THE SHAMAN.
>
>Plague pre nerf - 5500 damage over 10 minutes.
>
>Plague post nerf - 1100 damage over 2 minutes.
>
>THATS AN *80* PERCENT NERF.
>
>What is more they lied about the change they said "we halved the time and
>doubled the damage". In actual fact they havled the poison time and *kept
>the same damage*, they destroyed the Disease time and *kept the same
>damage*.
>
>At least they went back and doubled the Poison damage and made a minor
>increase to the Disease damage but Disease is still pointless in 95% of
>solo fights and 99.9% of group fights.
>
>Shamans have *no* DD at high levels. 430 damage Blizzard Blast is
>pointless against any mob (not to forget they *hugely* increased Cold
>Resistance and they didn't give Shamans a "Fire" spell like they gave
>Druids with Ice. DoTs are the way we do damage, so make Disease useful.
>Double the current damage over the same length of time would work. Or half
>the time so its similar to Envenomed Bolt - one of the better spells there
>is.
>
>--
>Alasdair Allan, Ibrox, Glasgow |England - Country where Marx developed
>x-st...@null.net | the basis of Communism
>X-Static's Rangers Webzine |Scotland - Country where Smith developed
>http://www.x-static.demon.co.uk/ | the basis of Capitalism
Rob aka Auman Estanesse
"Politicians are the same all over. They promise to build bridges,
even where there are no rivers."
Nikita Khrushchev
Jeffrey Price
>
> I do not doubt for a moment that Shaman have been nerfed.
> I just find it funny that you (Alasdair) in one post tells us how
> a Shaman can do everything in a group but bake bread.
> Who knows maybe they can bake bread too.
shamans can summon bread and water as well.
-alewuf shinkicker
abatt...@netscape.net
> Should not have been made only indoor dungeon castable. How many ogres
> get stuck zoning INTO sol b because there are always zone sitters
I have gotten stuck behind guards in Highkeep on the stairs because my
barbarian self can't get past them. as a result, the three goblin raiders
caught me and slaughtered me in seconds, and the guards were useless anyway.
i can't bank in kelethin either, which isn't an issue now (don't hunt on
faydwer anymore, not till i get higher so mistmoore and unrest aren't as
scary), but it was when i was hunting in crushbone a couple months ago.
kaladim is a pain in the arse to navigate sometimes, shrink isn't necessary to
take care of business (í'm usually only there to pick up trumpy's head from the
bank and drop it off with byzar.. :). however, it would be nice to get a
little better mobility there.
i agree, make shrink castable in ANY zone.
> - Took too long to recognize Alchemy bug
> Took WAY too long!!! And it's still taking too long to see ANY
> enhancements made to this skill! EVERY single skill out there has been
> enhanced in some way, but Alchemy is not even working, the potions you
> can make are usually bugged and give the wrong effect, no one WANTS
> these silly potions that can be made, and the regents to make the
> potions are outrageous. It's beyond way too long that we do NOT have a
> viable shaman only skill.
indeed. the problem with no enhancements is that they were thinking the skill
was alright. i got 25th level a couple weeks ago and tried to go train my
alchemy skill. when i got the "you must learn advanced... blah blah" message,
i immediately did a detailed /feedback about it. i haven't checked into the
potions or costs or anything, not until the next patch that puts working
alchemy in. maybe i'll take up brewing or pottery or something else fun and
inexpensive :)
> Brad says:
> - High Level (39+) Pets weakened
> Weakened...just a bit! My husband's level 34 pet cons higher than my
> level 39 pet. Can you say High Level 39+ pets WIMPED.
egads. my shaman is 26th level, so doesn't have a pet. but i'm shooting for
34 and pet not for maximal combat, but for a companion and roleplaying fun.
> Brad says:
> + Added more Class Specific Quests
> Ahhhhhh shaman quests. None worthwhile in my opinion. For the armor,
> the only piece I want is the helm that has +wis. The shaman quest you
> get from Mardra (sp) made my poor shaman kos with the trolls. Great
> quest....rolls eyes.
i have the boots and guantlets, but i am not sure the 320p spent on dufrenite
was worth it. i want the totemic vambraces and greaves though, since i'm SOOOO
tired of the banded look that i've had for 18 levels. at least i got a
bloodstained tunic a couple weeks ago, so i don't have the stupid banded mail.
:)
> Brad says:
> + Added more Class Specific Items
> Whooohooo we can now FINALLY get a piercing weapon. Granted, it's from
> Kedge Keep where it's the equivelant of going to Russia from
> California. And hey, there's no npc there that's not kos to my orge
> even AFTER killing tons of goblins that will buy and sell to me. Some
> of these items could have been situated more closer to Ogre/Barbarian
> home.
well with the patch yesterday we get a few more spears, i heard that fine steel
and combine are available for use. unfortunately ashenwood (is that it?)
isn't. not that i know the stats on any of these. but i will start using my
bronze main gauche to get the skill up until i get a regular spear. my melee
is so ineffective anyway unless i use my ogre war maul that it doesn't
matter... though i want 29th for quickness so i can swing that enamelled black
mace 800 times in a minute <grin>
> Brad says:
> + Enhanced High Level (35+) Meditation
> Don't even go here, this was for ALL meditating classes, not just
> shamans.
aye, indeed. but a great improvement, though it should have been at lower
level, like 20 or 25 :P
> Brad says:
> + Made Malise stack better and removed recasting time
> Nice nice, but still for me this spell is resisted most the times by the
> mobs that I need to cast it on.
i rarely use malise for the reason you mention. i group with a guildmate who
is a 29th level mage, so he malises stuff that i can't (higher level stuff) and
then i can get my frost strikes and envenomed breath through :).
> Brad says:
> + Better Pet Pathing
> Again, wasn't this to benifit all pet making classes? Need to be able
> to tell pet to STAY too. I would like to bring something I'm pulling
> all the way to my party before my pet jumps it halfway there.
i saw a humor post on the shaman's crucible forum saying something like:
/pet sit
/pet SIT
/pet SIT DAMN IT SIT!
:)
> Brad says:
> - DOTs changed negatively, making Kiting less efficient
> Hated kiting, tried it once and shook the whole time. So I guess I
> really have no opinion on this one.
indeed.. without snare, i find it difficult to kite. though i did kite
griffawns at 15th level with my druid friend, that was interesting. but we did
better mixing it up with the gnoll reavers instead.
> Brad says:
> + DoT changed positively to enhance group play
> Okay, this is a biggie with me. I for one belive that it's gone way
> over board with group play. Granted, this is a group game, but there is
two good points - yes it is a group game, and yes they've gone overboard with
the group emphasis.
when in a group, i always pull, or start, with poison. if its somewhere that
has mobs with lots of hit points (warrior room in highkeep, sentinels or gators
in cazic), i even throw a disease on them too to help along. i have gotten
many comments from people saying they love the dots because even though my
melee doesn't help much, the dot makes up for it overall.
> not enough for people to solo. Those of us who can't play for hours on
> end would like to be able to come on for an hour and just wack things
> for a while. Group play vs soloing, this game caters too much to
> grouping and I have seen many people log off the game because they
> cannot find a group. In fact I've seen a few people who have cancelled
off this DOT topic here: perhaps letting you get a minimal amount of experience
from greens that barely make it to the "low green" range. at 26th level, for
me that would be 15th level mobs giving a tiny bit. it would help as at times
these greens give me trouble (scarecrows are wily!). and at the really high
levels, stretch this out some, so hill giants give experience to 45th level
people (do they? i don't know, i'm guesstimating here), for example. this
would make it possible to solo when you can't get a group, or when you don't
have much time to play but would like to be productive.. sure, a teeny bit of
experience (like killing low blues in the hell levels, heheheheh), but at least
its something.
interesting note by the way, i was helping a guildmate in beholder with evil
eyes, and even though i wasn't always getting the "you gained experience"
message, i was still gaining experience. i know, because we killed about four
in a row like that, and i noticed a change in my experience bar.
> their accounts because it's too group oriented on EQ. I agree, dungeons
> and harder areas should be made group oriented, but creating more
> outdoor type mobs that can be solo'd by those above level 25 would be so
what the game really lacks is mid-high level areas like misty thicket. in
misty thicket i have solo'ed (or grouped with only one other person) a monk
and my shaman from level 7 to 11. there is an abundance of creatures to kill
there, and they are not instakills like the karanas would be with even fights
for me (or even low blues like undead reavers, aviak rooks, etc).
i wish i could solo or group with maybe one other person in an outdoor zone at
my level, but because stuff hits WAY too hard, and my melee skills aren't the
equivalent of what they used to be (relatively speaking, that is) this isn't
feasible. in fact, i don't remember the last time i soloed ANYTHING that gave
experience. maybe cynthia's pet in rathe mountains once. but that is cheesy
and out of character for my shaman.
> much nicer. So if you're someone who likes to solo, this addition of
> dots to enhance group play is a - not a +.
i really don't have a strong opinion about it because i started my shaman in
early september, and didn't get into any "real" dots until recently (real dot
being envenomed breath at 24 :).
> Brad says:
> + DoT's Made Stronger
> Again, only really made stronger for group play and should be lumped
> with the above +.
which dots? the poison ones? what about the disease based? i was using
affliction right after i got it, but when i noticed that it wasn't nearly as
effective as my NINTH level tainted breath, i forgot it and rarely use it now
(except in the situations described above).
> - Removed Charm Spell
> Removed it yep and it was fun running around with a Kodiak for a pet.
> This spell I used only for amusement. Did we ever see a replacement for
> this being taken away? Not to my knowledge but I could be wrong.
charm would be nice now, charm a pickclaw warrior to help fight the visionary
(in highkeep) and then kill the warrior. but instead we get that crappy shrink
that we discussed already. we do have befriend animal, which is nice in cazic
thule (gorillas or gators), but i haven't gotten to 29th.
> + Increased the Duration of Buffs
> I have seen very minor increase of duration of buffs. The good spells
> really don't last long. Chloroplast lasts aproximately 12 minutes for
> 200 mana. Quickness lasts maybe 2 rounds of fights if I'm lucky. Sow is
> good but the only players asking me for a sow are the lower level
> characters who don't have jboots. Guess I shouldn't have specialized in
> alteration to the max because my buffs just don't last long enough to be
> in demand.
i have only seen one person on the tribunal server (where i play my shaman)
that has the boots. and i get spirit of wolf requests from all kinds of
characters, of all levels. last night i traded spirit of wolf for clarity from
a 45th level enchanter :).
quickness lasts two rounds? as in two combats, right? i know quickness lasts
about that, sometimes three if we're really busy. (this is the enchanter one
though, i don't have quickness either :( ).
if specializing in alteration was a mistake, then what else? evocation or
conjuration? i think i'll stick with alteration for healing and the like,
since that is what i seem to do most often these days... maybe that will change
in four levels.
> I know this has turned into a book. But I sadly believe that the shaman
> class, like alchemy, has been neglected. In fact, Everquests version of
> a shaman is hardly like any I have read about. Shamans traditionally
> are the masters of herbal arts, shapechanging, healing, divination, and
> spiritual travel. Shamans on EQ can't even forage, when part of
> shamanistic training actually deals with being able to FIND herbs,
> regents and healing plants. Yes, like the druids and the wood elves,
> shamans are in tune with nature, they just have a tendency to see both
> the evil and good in it.
heh, my response is rather booklike as well... sorry if this bores anyone
reading it, but i'm procrastinating work stuff :)
i think some things about the shaman class in everquest are right on, but
others are not. alchemy is a big one. but hey, at least they gave it enough
thought to include, even if it is useless. that's another rant. if shamans
were good at divination, then why do we have so few divination skills? i'd
like the eye spell that the (wizards? mages?) get, that would be useful. or
even if vision's range worked better or was farther. in some zones at certain
distances, it just stops. urf. oh, and why is creeping vision so useless?
okay, it zooms in like 10 pixels. wheeee. it would be nice to have a spell
that did a tracking like effect, maybe cost 20 mana to cast, had a limited
range (maybe same as druid tracking, their's is lower than ranger's range,
right?), etc. i think that would be great. especially when hunting for the
elusive bull elephant or centaur charger....
and actually, druids and wood elves see the good and evil in nature - at least,
in AD&D, druids are always only true neutral.
--
josh
NBarnes
> Poison was made slightly stronger. Disease was destroyed.
>
> NO CLASS IN THE GAME HAS SUFFERED AS LARGE A NERF AS THE SHAMAN.
>
> Plague pre nerf - 5500 damage over 10 minutes.
>
> Plague post nerf - 1100 damage over 2 minutes.
>
> THATS AN *80* PERCENT NERF.
The druids' top DoT only does 810 damage. Somehow, I can't find
it in myself to weep for the shamen, who's top DoT went from doing
5500(!!!) damage to a mere 1100. At lvl 34, you shamen got Scourge,
which used to do 1600(!) damage. That's at 34th. At 34th, you
were, with one spell, doing more damage than Ice Comet. At 34th,
my DoT was doing 330 points.
My heart bleeds for shamen.
NBarnes
Xenomorph
Froggy wrote in message <384F2C83...@gci.net>...
Froggy
my pet. He has a bad habit of running around dungeons grabbing everything
in sight. I only take him out when he has room to roam.
Froggy
Xenomorph wrote:
> wasnt this just fixed LAST WEEK? when did you hit 34?
>
> Froggy wrote in message <384F2C83...@gci.net>...
John A. Lipski
>
>> Poison was made slightly stronger. Disease was destroyed.
>>
>> NO CLASS IN THE GAME HAS SUFFERED AS LARGE A NERF AS THE SHAMAN.
>>
>> Plague pre nerf - 5500 damage over 10 minutes.
>>
>> Plague post nerf - 1100 damage over 2 minutes.
>>
>> THATS AN *80* PERCENT NERF.
>
Actually, it's the same amount of damage either way. They cut back
damage by 80%, but also the amount of time that it takes to do the
damage by 80% as well. So, if a combat against a single mob even had a
chance to last as long 10 minutes(!), you could cast the DoT 5 times
for a total of 5500 damage over 10 minutes. The only thing nerfed here
is that it would now take 5 times as much mana to cast it, which is
considerable, but not in the same league as an across the board
nerfage of 80%.
Just looking at the numbers here...
John
----
Alasdair Allan
> >Alasdair Allan wrote:
> >> Plague pre nerf - 5500 damage over 10 minutes.
> >>
> >> Plague post nerf - 1100 damage over 2 minutes.
> >>
> >> THATS AN *80* PERCENT NERF.
> >
>
> Actually, it's the same amount of damage either way. They cut back
> damage by 80%, but also the amount of time that it takes to do the
> damage by 80% as well. So, if a combat against a single mob even had a
> chance to last as long 10 minutes(!), you could cast the DoT 5 times
> for a total of 5500 damage over 10 minutes. The only thing nerfed here
> is that it would now take 5 times as much mana to cast it, which is
> considerable, but not in the same league as an across the board
> nerfage of 80%.
>
> Just looking at the numbers here...
Ugh, you stupid cunt.
Plague used to do 5500 damage. It now does 1100 damage. What is it with
these numbers that you do not understand?
Having to cast a spell 5 times (as well as sitting a stopwatch beside your
computer as therte is *no* feedback in game) is not the same as casting once
then being able to use the rest of your mana. How do you put another cast
on a mob that has run away?
Really, you are an idiot. Please tell me you're using a machine in some
hospital for the mentally crippled as I'd hate to think people like you
aren't getting the care you so obviously require.
Alasdair Allan
> On Thu, 09 Dec 1999 11:09:09 GMT, "Alasdair Allan"
> <postm...@x-static.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >>
> >Shamans have *no* DD at high levels. 430 damage Blizzard Blast is
> >pointless against any mob (not to forget they *hugely* increased Cold
> >Resistance and they didn't give Shamans a "Fire" spell like they gave
> >Druids with Ice. DoTs are the way we do damage, so make Disease useful.
> >Double the current damage over the same length of time would work. Or
half
> >the time so its similar to Envenomed Bolt - one of the better spells
there
> >is.
>
> shamans kiting Ig around. Cast DOT1, wait till the giant turns to pet,
> cast DOT2, run run run till the giant dies. The 33% damage loss will
> be easily compensated by the pet hitting.
Shamans don't *have* to kite Ice Giants. In fact its faster not to.
2200 in 2 minutes is about 55 a tick. This is useful but not in the least
ovberpowering compared to any level 49 DD (something Shamans do *not* get).
> Pet, chainmail, DOT, SOW, Tigor, buffs .... You just can't have
> anything :)
> And your DD is as good as that of Necro and enchanter.
Necro's and Enchanters can only nuke for 430 at level 50? I think not.
Hell even the Cleric finishes at 50 with a superior *non-undead only* DD to
the Shaman.
Alasdair Allan
> I do not doubt for a moment that Shaman have been nerfed.
> I just find it funny that you (Alasdair) in one post tells us how
> a Shaman can do everything in a group but bake bread.
> Who knows maybe they can bake bread too.
> to the point of being nearly usless.
> Which is it?
No, not to the point of being useless as a class. But as a *line of spells*
Disease has very, very few applications. The only time I use it is if I am
soloing, and fighting a mob with over 5k HPs. In no other situation is it
worthwhile.
John A. Lipski
John
----
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morgan
Sorry, but Shamans really do have Enchanters and Necromancers beat for
direct damage. All three get their last DD spell at level 44. Both
the Enchanter and the Necromancer DD spells have secondary effects
which increases their resist rates and means that there are no partial
resists; if the spell is resisted, it does zero damage. Also, both
the Enchanter and Necromancer DD spells have very long hold times,
while the Shaman spell has only the standard 2.5 second recovery time.
Direct Damage:
Damage Cast Hold
Enchanter Discordant Mind 530 6 8
Necromancer Ignite Bones 500 6 12
Shaman Blizzard Blast 430 5 2.5
Necromancers, of course, have much better DoTs than Shamans who, in turn,
have much better DoTs than Enchanters.
--
Morgan
Xymarra, High Elf Enchanter on E'Ci
Alasdair Allan
> On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 09:33:41 GMT, "Alasdair Allan"
> <posth...@x-static.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >Really, you are an idiot. Please tell me you're using a machine in some
> >hospital for the mentally crippled as I'd hate to think people like you
> >aren't getting the care you so obviously require.
>
And yet you make the effort to reply anyway.
How courageous to find you trying to squeeze the words out despite your
enfeebled mind. I am touched.
John A. Lipski
<postm...@x-static.demon.co.uk> wrote:
<many choice words about my mental state for putting forth an opinion
about Shaman nerfing...re: 5500 damage over 10 mins vs. 1100 damage
over 2 mins>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Fine...call me an idiot for doing this, and I know you will, but I
will reply to you, without resorting to any of the choice words that
you seem so fond of.
First off, I don't contest, nor have I ever contested, that Plague has
been nerfed. I am simply looking at how the numbers stack up.
Shamans used to do 5500 damage over 10 minutes, now they do 1100 over
2 minutes (and someone in Everlore stated that the nerfed version does
about 1500 damage, not 1100).
It used to be: cast the spell once and you get 5500 damage DoT, given
that the mob (or you) lasts 10 minutes. If the mob resists, you get
zilch; you just blew 300 mana and get to try again. If you start doing
damage, you can't stack another Plague over the first, so you still
have to wait until the 10 mins have passed before casting another one.
Net effect (if all goes well): 5500 damage over 10 minutes for 300
mana.
Now: you cast and it does 1100 damage DoT. But you get to cast again
in 2 minutes for an additional 1100 damage, and again 2 minutes later,
and so on. It costs 300 mana each time; this is where the nerf is most
prominent. If the mob resists, you just blew 300 mana and get to try
again. If you start doing damage; you can't stack an additional Plague
over the previous, but you can throw another one out 2 minutes later
until the mob has expired. Net effect (if all goes well): 5500 damage
over 10 minutes for 1500 mana.
If the poster in Everlore is to be believed (yeah, go ahead...call him
a retarded idiot as well), you could conceivably do 7500 damage for
1500 mana over the same 10 minute period, or you could do 6000 over 8
minutes for 1200 mana. Either way, it's more damage over the same
period of time than the unnerfed version.
Yes, It's a nerf. Yes, you blow a lot more mana. No (in my opinion),
it is not an 80% nerf. If you had spent 300 mana to do 1100 damage
over the original 10 minutes, _then_ it would have been an 80% nerf.
Look, it's a game, okay? A nice and addictive game, but a game
nonetheless. I am stating an opinion based on what I see in the game.
Please take a happy pill and chill, fella. I don't think you will,
though, and if it makes you happy to slam me verbally, then go right
ahead.
Enough said and keyclicks wasted on the subject.
Killfile enabled,
John
----
W. Gregory Klett
> it is not an 80% nerf. If you had spent 300 mana to do 1100 damage
> over the original 10 minutes, _then_ it would have been an 80% nerf.
>
Just a comment, yes you might be able to do more damage of he same amount
of time, if of course the Mob isn't moving.
Compare; (note these are maximum damage, non-moving mob)
Plague - Lvl 49, 300 mana 75/70/21 total potential damage including extra
tick 1615 over 22 ticks ( 2 minutes and 12 seconds )
Envenomed Bolt - Lvl 49, 320 mana 100/120/7 total potential damage
including extra tick 1060 over 8 ticks ( 48 seconds )
So in just over the Duration of 1 Plague, you can cast 3 EB's and do
almost twice the damage. They reduced the Duration of Disease by a lot,
they modestly upped the damage per tick, it is NOT doubled, they left the
mana cost the same.
The problem with the nerfed Disease DoT line is that in almost all cases
it is better to cast the Poison line instead. To add to the disappointment
Shaman feel with Disease is that we get a second line of spells whos sole
effect is to reduce the targets Disease Save.
Some time back GZ ( I believe it was him ) made a comment that they were
going to make the Disease line 'more interesting'. As it sits though it
only really is of use with really tough MOBs, or while Kiting.
Do I use Disease, yes. Do I think Disease is useful? Well, it helps with
the Uber-MOBs, and runners don't often get away once DoTed... when
fighting Healers, Casters, blue Meleers or most normal MoBs disease is
just too little damage per tick done too slowly to be desired.
John A. Lipski
for doing so; I have not run a Shaman, so I didn't understand the
intricacies of what was being said. You explained and corrected,
without resorting to what others have.
Again, many thanks for your reply,
John
----
Arbolo -- Halfling Druid 13 (The Nameless)
Luvorex -- Human Enchanter 3 (The Nameless)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
W. Gregory Klett
(John A. Lipski) wrote:
> There...a beautifully answered and well thought-out reply. Thank-you
> for doing so; I have not run a Shaman, so I didn't understand the
> intricacies of what was being said. You explained and corrected,
> without resorting to what others have.
>
> Again, many thanks for your reply,
>
> John
> ----
>
Glad to help clear things up. I at times want to scream to the world
about various things, both EQ and Non, but find if you start shouting,
people stop listening. Not that I am not mad as hell about the Disease
'enhancements', and the Alchemy problem which I personally filed many Bug
and Feedback reports on since last July. Flames and name calling solve
very little and just earn people a spot in my Filters list.
Greg
Wolfe, 35 Shaman Quellious (trying to stay off of others Filter lists)