10% Healing Penalty removed on Test
Dream King
healing penalty for non-cleric classes has been removed. Clerics still
enjoy a 5% bonus.
At the moment this is carrying over to spells on items such as
Invigorate on Velious BPs, leading to 100pt heals instead of 90. It
would be nice if they left that like that but who knows. They may figure
that extra 10 pts is unbalancing!
Dark Tyger
This change was mentioned on Caster's Realm as part of the caster
re-balancing. Something that will benifit the higher levels more than
lower, I'd say. ( Oh, look. My ranger can heal for 3 more points now.
;-) )
--
Dark Tyger, the slightly eccentric, railgun-toting kitty kat
Email me at comcast.net
=^..^=
"Mal est lui, qui mal y trouve."
dstep
wrote:
>morp...@cent.com (Dream King) wrote:
>
>> I haven't seen any mention of this yet, but over on Test the 10%
>>healing penalty for non-cleric classes has been removed. Clerics still
>>enjoy a 5% bonus.
>>
>> At the moment this is carrying over to spells on items such as
>>Invigorate on Velious BPs, leading to 100pt heals instead of 90. It
>>would be nice if they left that like that but who knows. They may figure
>>that extra 10 pts is unbalancing!
>
>This change was mentioned on Caster's Realm as part of the caster
>re-balancing. Something that will benifit the higher levels more than
>lower, I'd say. ( Oh, look. My ranger can heal for 3 more points now.
>;-) )
It will make a diff to me on my 56 druid. 400 or so heal on
chloroblast just looks better to me than 385 ;)
Its a very old penalty from the max level 50 all-the-other-priests-get
is-greater-heal-days.
dstephenatcoxdotnet
(using the @ and . for email)
James Grahame
"Dark Tyger" <dark...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:vkuaju40ru55n32sf...@4ax.com...
> morp...@cent.com (Dream King) wrote:
>
> > I haven't seen any mention of this yet, but over on Test the 10%
> >healing penalty for non-cleric classes has been removed. Clerics still
> >enjoy a 5% bonus.
> >
> > At the moment this is carrying over to spells on items such as
> >Invigorate on Velious BPs, leading to 100pt heals instead of 90. It
> >would be nice if they left that like that but who knows. They may figure
> >that extra 10 pts is unbalancing!
The carryover to items has always been in place. I think I mentioned
here once that those 90 point heal pods that drop in the caller quest in
Fungus Grove do 107 when I use them - 10 points is losing the 10% healing
penalty, 5 points from the 5% healing bonus for being a cleric, 2 points
from my 2% AA ability. It would be interesting if, in fact, the healing
"penalty" was applied to every class but cleric.
> This change was mentioned on Caster's Realm as part of the caster
> re-balancing. Something that will benifit the higher levels more than
> lower, I'd say. ( Oh, look. My ranger can heal for 3 more points now.
> ;-) )
No, being able to heal an extra 80-90 points with Nature's Touch is just
as useless at level 60 as the three points is to your ranger. Clerics have
the ability to raise all our instant heals up to 10% or so with AA
abilities, and the consensus is that the ability is useless even for fast
heals like Remedy and Divine Light. You'll go an awful long time before
saving someone with that 10%. Healing crits, on the other hand, are life
savers - when you crit, you generally save someone as their health goes out
of low health aggro range and you buy yourself enough time to be able to
chain-cast better heal per second heals like Divine Light or even a CH, as
opposed to chaining Remedy.
James
-Martin
news:WDhZ8.3433$Vl5....@news0.telusplanet.net...
> No, being able to heal an extra 80-90 points with Nature's Touch is
just
> as useless at level 60 as the three points is to your ranger. Clerics have
> the ability to raise all our instant heals up to 10% or so with AA
> abilities, and the consensus is that the ability is useless even for fast
> heals like Remedy and Divine Light. You'll go an awful long time before
> saving someone with that 10%. Healing crits, on the other hand, are life
> savers - when you crit, you generally save someone as their health goes
out
> of low health aggro range and you buy yourself enough time to be able to
> chain-cast better heal per second heals like Divine Light or even a CH, as
> opposed to chaining Remedy.
If I read this right, I totally and utterly disagree. Are you really
telling me spamming fast heals on your tanks in big fights is useless?
Next time you fight the AoW, have all druids on nukes/dots, and all clerics
using *only* cheal.
Somehow I doubt it will be the nice easy fight you expect it to be.
Banking on a critical(proc) to save somebody is the first step to failure,
and I see every single guild I know use divine light/NT/chloro as a very
effective heal spell to keep a MA alive for the rotation, critical heal or
no critical heal.
Cheal is all well and good, but its those baby heals which keep the tank
alive to even get the cheal.
-m
sensei grandmaster
prexus
James Grahame
"-Martin" <vil...@cheerfuldot.com> wrote in message
news:L9yZ8.1291$gG2....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
> "James Grahame" <jamesg...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:WDhZ8.3433$Vl5....@news0.telusplanet.net...
> > No, being able to heal an extra 80-90 points with Nature's Touch is
> > just
> > as useless at level 60 as the three points is to your ranger. Clerics
have
> > the ability to raise all our instant heals up to 10% or so with AA
> > abilities, and the consensus is that the ability is useless even for
fast
> > heals like Remedy and Divine Light. You'll go an awful long time before
> > saving someone with that 10%. Healing crits, on the other hand, are life
> > savers - when you crit, you generally save someone as their health goes
> out
> > of low health aggro range and you buy yourself enough time to be able to
> > chain-cast better heal per second heals like Divine Light or even a CH,
as
> > opposed to chaining Remedy.
>
> If I read this right, I totally and utterly disagree.
You didn't read this right. ;-)
> Are you really
> telling me spamming fast heals on your tanks in big fights is useless?
No, I'm telling you that spamming fast heals that are a little over 10%
larger than before will not save any more tanks than spamming pre-bonus fast
heals. The increase is too small to have value. In XP groups, this
slightly-bigger-than 10% bonus will still not allow a druid to be a good
healer - the efficiency on Nature's Touch is still cruddy compared with the
heals an XP group cleric uses (CH and CE). And in terms of saving a caster,
a 10% bonus won't cut it - clerics have already come to that conclusion. If
they wanted to save casters, they'd be better off getting healing crits
since when a crit goes off it DOES save someone.
In short, I'm telling you this "healing improvement" for druids is
nothing but a treat to shut them up. They still won't heal well enough in
the sorts of XP situations they want to be in, and they still won't have a
unique role on a raid involving healing. All they'll have is a warm, fuzzy
feeling that Verant did something about their legitimate concerns.
> Cheal is all well and good, but its those baby heals which keep the tank
> alive to even get the cheal.
The first one. After that, the rotation keeps them alive. ;-)
James
Ben wilson
<jamesg...@shaw.ca> writes
>the efficiency on Nature's Touch is still cruddy compared with the
>heals an XP group cleric uses (CH and CE).
An efficient EXP group has neither a cleric to CH, nor a warrior to
maximise the benefit of CHs
--
***********************
* Demorgoth Demonia *
* MT for a flawless AoW kill *
*Tanker of Ventani the Warder*
* L60 Warlord [Ogre] *
* <Dark Horizon> Officer *
* Zebuxoruk Server *
**********************
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=123069
Celaeno
> In short, I'm telling you this "healing improvement" for druids is
>nothing but a treat to shut them up. They still won't heal well enough in
>the sorts of XP situations they want to be in, and they still won't have a
>unique role on a raid involving healing. All they'll have is a warm, fuzzy
>feeling that Verant did something about their legitimate concerns.
No, we'll have that warm, fuzzy 'about bloody time our heals were
unnerfed' feeling.
Celaeno Duskwalker
Fier'dal hierophant of Erollisi Marr
-Martin
I still disagree. Never been healed for 400, only for a mob to hit you for
401 and kill you?
Ever had your warrior/tank miss a cheal by about a second? I see it (and
its not always down to the cleric making a mistake either). Or tryed
outhealing a dot/ae?
Extra HP healed is so obviously a positive, Im quite astonished your saying
its basically useless
-m
sensei grandmaster
prexus
Ben wilson
<vil...@cheerfuldot.com> writes
>I still disagree. Never been healed for 400, only for a mob to hit you for
>401 and kill you?
Little while ago, I wen unconscious MTing Burrower, only for a backup
heal or two to stand me up again in time for the rotation to catch up.
>
>Ever had your warrior/tank miss a cheal by about a second? I see it (and
>its not always down to the cleric making a mistake either). Or tryed
>outhealing a dot/ae?
Especially on 'damage burst' mobs like AoW's flurry or Emp's 4k proc.
>
>Extra HP healed is so obviously a positive, Im quite astonished your saying
>its basically useless
Because they obviously want something astonishingly overpowering, and
don't understand what a delicate balance there is, especially in the
high end game where any changes are at their most pronounced.
Personally, I think VI has done an amazing job, particularly on with
Emp, in bringing raid-critical roles to a number of previously un-useful
classes. It's a big step away from the usual 'throw wars and clerics at
it until it dies' tactic.
-Martin
news:VOGIIDA5g$O9E...@armoury1.demon.co.uk...
> Little while ago, I wen unconscious MTing Burrower, only for a backup
> heal or two to stand me up again in time for the rotation to catch up.
hehe ouch. That had to have been a close call on a mob hitting for 1k+
> Especially on 'damage burst' mobs like AoW's flurry or Emp's 4k proc.
AoW was exactly who I was thinking about (never fought the emp)
> >Extra HP healed is so obviously a positive, Im quite astonished your
saying
> >its basically useless
>
> Because they obviously want something astonishingly overpowering, and
> don't understand what a delicate balance there is, especially in the
> high end game where any changes are at their most pronounced.
But it wasn't a druid talking, it was James - a cleric.. hence my
astonishment
> Personally, I think VI has done an amazing job, particularly on with
> Emp, in bringing raid-critical roles to a number of previously un-useful
> classes. It's a big step away from the usual 'throw wars and clerics at
> it until it dies' tactic.
Well I think SoL as a whole has been doing that, I can think of many Luclin
fights where necros are godly.. can you even name 1 velious mob where the
same holds true?
Casters overall got a nice boost with SoL (and those outrageously high mobs
AC's, where only nukes are rly worthwhile). Paladins got a really nice
boost too, in places like Akheva, Ssra, even exp places like the grey
-m
sensei grandmaster
prexus
James Grahame
> In article <8GCZ8.3842$8D4.2...@news2.telusplanet.net>, James Grahame
> <jamesg...@shaw.ca> writes
> >the efficiency on Nature's Touch is still cruddy compared with the
> >heals an XP group cleric uses (CH and CE).
>
> An efficient EXP group has neither a cleric to CH, nor a warrior to
> maximise the benefit of CHs
Cazic Thule. Excellent XP, and the DPS of the mobs (and the possibility
of being steamrolled with multiples) ensures the presence of a cleric.
There's other places like mines in Ssra where the sheer number of pulls
overwhelms shaman slows and leans towards cleric healing, but CT is the best
example.
James
James Grahame
> "James Grahame" <jamesg...@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:8GCZ8.3842$8D4.2...@news2.telusplanet.net...
>
for
> 401 and kill you?
I'm a cleric - nobody's saving me when I get summoned except for me and
my DA. ;-)
> Ever had your warrior/tank miss a cheal by about a second? I see it (and
> its not always down to the cleric making a mistake either). Or tryed
> outhealing a dot/ae?
Miss a CHeal - yes. But tell me - how did the druid know to cast that
fast heal and have it land exactly between the times when the correct and
incorrect CH land? Did the druid actually count out the time to be sure when
to cast, or did he just spam heal and hope to get lucky? And now, the
$24,000 question - IF the druid cast during the right time and IF the druid
had 90 points more healing, would that be just enough to save the tank?
Trust me - as part of my job I've had to look through more AoW logs than I
ever want to remember. There just aren't enough close saves in a fight like
that for 10% to make a difference.
Outhealing a DoT/AoE isn't going to happen with 10% greater efficiency
if it wasn't happening before. If you want to beat a DoT/AoE, you're talking
about high-efficiency heals like Healing Wave of Prexus, group CH, or
CE/Torpor. You'll note I said that I thought druids should have a more
CE-like spell than Nature's Recovery (that's the short term high regen
spell, right?) AND should have some form of low-aggro group heal like a
group CE.
> Extra HP healed is so obviously a positive, Im quite astonished your
saying
> its basically useless
If my main nuke got upped from 925 to 1000 damage, it would be an
improvement. But I still would solo like crap because the efficiency of the
nuke was poor before and being nearly 10% better won't change that. It's the
same with druid healing. They complain they can't keep up with the damage
being done to a warrior in an XP group without going OOM. That's an
efficiency problem, and it's a big one. You don't fight that by giving them
a 10% boost, you give them a heal with real efficiency that doesn't step on
the toes of the best single-target instant-cast healers in the game,
clerics.
James
James Grahame
> In article <dkP_8.341$Vq.2...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>, -Martin
> <vil...@cheerfuldot.com> writes
>
> >I still disagree. Never been healed for 400, only for a mob to hit you
for
> >401 and kill you?
>
> Little while ago, I wen unconscious MTing Burrower, only for a backup
> heal or two to stand me up again in time for the rotation to catch up.
So you're saying the backup healers knew you were going down AND timed
their backup small heals to land between the last CH and the next one? We do
BP with about a 4 second CH rotation if I remember this weekend correctly.
So the backup healer is either spamming like mad, hoping to get lucky, or he
sees a blown CH and waits one second after seeing it's blown to cast so that
it lands at the right time? And here I thought most backup healers were
trained to just cast if they see a missed rotation cast!
> >Ever had your warrior/tank miss a cheal by about a second? I see it (and
> >its not always down to the cleric making a mistake either). Or tryed
> >outhealing a dot/ae?
>
> Especially on 'damage burst' mobs like AoW's flurry or Emp's 4k proc.
You mean 3300 damage proc, right? ;-) On an AoW flurry, a small heal
will NOT help. Our CH interval is somewhere in the 2-3 second range, so
after a flurry the maximum time before a CH lands should be 3 seconds. The
casting time on Nature's Touch is 5.5 seconds. If the druid in question
wasn't spamming NT at random, they will not land it after a flurry and
before a CH lands. If they're spamming at random, then why not have a bot
cleric there instead to spam CH or DL?
Now, we have yet to finish off Emperor yet so maybe our Emperor strat
for the 3300 damage proc is off - we last got him to 60% before a bard in
the main tank's group accidentally hit DA song and wiped us all. =( But we
have healers whose sole job is to watch for the "Emperor begins to cast a
spell" message and cover CH at that time. Not cover NT. So far we haven't
lost a single engagement to unforeseen death from the proc - we've been
messed up by bad placement when we were deciding where to place him, by bard
DA song, by an amazingly early stun proc before the main tank could use his
stun poo, and by a LD in the offtank group that lead to a loose offtank mob
amongst the CH clerics, but never the proc. Hey, maybe that'll be the next
thing to kill us! =/
> >Extra HP healed is so obviously a positive, Im quite astonished your
saying
> >its basically useless
>
> Because they obviously want something astonishingly overpowering, and
> don't understand what a delicate balance there is, especially in the
> high end game where any changes are at their most pronounced.
Giving druids CE-like spells would actually be pretty limiting. They
don't stack, unlike direct heals, so their ability to unbalance things would
be limited. At best you're looking at (assuming they get a CE-clone) 300
damage healed every six seconds for the length of a fight on a main tank -
and with the heals they get now, and mod rods, I bet a druid could already
keep that up for the length of an encounter. Where it would have a
pronounced effect would be places like XP grouping, with both high end
players and low-end level 60's, and in "niche roles" like mod healing and
counter-AoE work on raids.
> Personally, I think VI has done an amazing job, particularly on with
> Emp, in bringing raid-critical roles to a number of previously un-useful
> classes.
Well, I'm sure the necromancers aren't happy at being sent to the
basement - or, at least aren't happy until they see everyone else get wiped.
> It's a big step away from the usual 'throw wars and clerics at
> it until it dies' tactic.
If we had enough WARs and CLRs, they'd replace the offtanks and offtank
healers. You just run into a numbers issue.
James
hughes
> > don't understand what a delicate balance there is, especially in the
> > high end game where any changes are at their most pronounced.
My main is not a druid. What you consider astonishingly overpowering I
consider just enough :p Though in reality I would like a new spell around
lvl 44 or 49 with a 500 mana cost and a 10k heal with the same casting time
as cheal.
sanjian
news:iG__8.13251$_C2.9...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Still haven't figured out that a druid isn't the main healing class?
Ben wilson
<jamesg...@shaw.ca> writes
>> An efficient EXP group has neither a cleric to CH, nor a warrior to
>> maximise the benefit of CHs
>
> Cazic Thule. Excellent XP, and the DPS of the mobs (and the possibility
>of being steamrolled with multiples) ensures the presence of a cleric.
>There's other places like mines in Ssra where the sheer number of pulls
>overwhelms shaman slows and leans towards cleric healing, but CT is the best
>example.
Neither of which I would classify as a power-exp group, though you can
certainly get very good exp there. The best exp groups involve the
highest DPS (faster mobs killed = more mobs killed) and least downtime.
I imagine 4 rog + SK + sham would be very hard to beat on a safe med/low
blue camp with lots of mobs like FG or certain other places.
CT is good exp, agreed, but since you need a cler + slower/messer
there's 2-3 people in the group with little or no damage output.
Therefore they have to have a lower kill rate than the group where
everyone if doing max damage
Ben wilson
<jamesg...@shaw.ca> writes
>"Ben wilson" <bwi...@armoury1.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:VOGIIDA5g$O9E...@armoury1.demon.co.uk...
>> In article <dkP_8.341$Vq.2...@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net>, -Martin
>> <vil...@cheerfuldot.com> writes
>>
>> >I still disagree. Never been healed for 400, only for a mob to hit you
>for
>> >401 and kill you?
>>
>> Little while ago, I wen unconscious MTing Burrower, only for a backup
>> heal or two to stand me up again in time for the rotation to catch up.
>
> So you're saying the backup healers knew you were going down AND timed
>their backup small heals to land between the last CH and the next one?
No, I'm saying that ANY backup heal between the last CH and me going
unconscious, saved my life. It was in reference specifically to the part
I quoted. An anecdote ):oP
>> Especially on 'damage burst' mobs like AoW's flurry or Emp's 4k proc.
>
> You mean 3300 damage proc, right? ;-) On an AoW flurry, a small heal
>will NOT help. Our CH interval is somewhere in the 2-3 second range, so
>after a flurry the maximum time before a CH lands should be 3 seconds. The
>casting time on Nature's Touch is 5.5 seconds. If the druid in question
>wasn't spamming NT at random, they will not land it after a flurry and
>before a CH lands. If they're spamming at random, then why not have a bot
>cleric there instead to spam CH or DL?
>
> Now, we have yet to finish off Emperor yet so maybe our Emperor strat
>for the 3300 damage proc is off - we last got him to 60% before a bard in
>the main tank's group accidentally hit DA song and wiped us all. =( But we
>have healers whose sole job is to watch for the "Emperor begins to cast a
>spell" message and cover CH at that time. Not cover NT. So far we haven't
>lost a single engagement to unforeseen death from the proc - we've been
>messed up by bad placement when we were deciding where to place him, by bard
>DA song, by an amazingly early stun proc before the main tank could use his
>stun poo, and by a LD in the offtank group that lead to a loose offtank mob
>amongst the CH clerics, but never the proc. Hey, maybe that'll be the next
>thing to kill us! =/
We spent a few Emp runs learning the most efficient way to control the
adds, and a few runs 'pulling', and a few runs finding out the best
placement. Once that was all set, our first real attempt got emp to 90%,
next attempt got him to 60%, and our last attempt was an infuriatingly
close sliver of red. IMO, if you can get Emp to 60% legitimately (ie:
not MB/disc/hoop zerging) you can kill him with the same strat. We
lacked DPS last time, so that sliver of red took us nearly an hour of
fighting. Wednesday, he dies!
I've tried the poos (snare I assume? not stun) but didn't find them too
useful. Starting off with bane2h, then switching to hates seems to work
best for me, but other warriors in the guild prefer doing it their own
way. Taunt is such a fickle beast, I'm sure a lot of it is just the mob
feeling the confidence in a warrior hehe.
>> Personally, I think VI has done an amazing job, particularly on with
>> Emp, in bringing raid-critical roles to a number of previously un-useful
>> classes.
>
> Well, I'm sure the necromancers aren't happy at being sent to the
>basement - or, at least aren't happy until they see everyone else get wiped.
eeewww... cheesy ):oP
>
>> It's a big step away from the usual 'throw wars and clerics at
>> it until it dies' tactic.
>
> If we had enough WARs and CLRs, they'd replace the offtanks and offtank
>healers. You just run into a numbers issue.
But they wouldn't do as good a job. It's like saying if we had enough
druids spamming heals we wouldn't need clerics.
James Grahame
> >for the 3300 damage proc is off - we last got him to 60% before a bard in
> >the main tank's group accidentally hit DA song and wiped us all. =( But
we
> >have healers whose sole job is to watch for the "Emperor begins to cast a
> >spell" message and cover CH at that time. Not cover NT. So far we haven't
> >lost a single engagement to unforeseen death from the proc - we've been
> >messed up by bad placement when we were deciding where to place him, by
bard
> >DA song, by an amazingly early stun proc before the main tank could use
his
> >stun poo, and by a LD in the offtank group that lead to a loose offtank
mob
> >amongst the CH clerics, but never the proc. Hey, maybe that'll be the
next
> >thing to kill us! =/
>
> We spent a few Emp runs learning the most efficient way to control the
> adds, and a few runs 'pulling', and a few runs finding out the best
> placement. Once that was all set, our first real attempt got emp to 90%,
> next attempt got him to 60%, and our last attempt was an infuriatingly
> close sliver of red. IMO, if you can get Emp to 60% legitimately (ie:
> not MB/disc/hoop zerging) you can kill him with the same strat.
And we did, last night. =) =) =) =) =) =) We're going to Vex Thal!!!
Drops were melee shoes, caster cloak, and the "OMG" robe.
> We
> lacked DPS last time, so that sliver of red took us nearly an hour of
> fighting. Wednesday, he dies!
Good luck, Ben. We found the same thing - get a few more people things
they didn't think were important, like offhand Bane, and we had enough. We
dropped him in about 30 minutes, IIRC - that's the time to aim for. For
reference that's with 80 people (we have over 110 keyed - see what I mean
about a lot of part-time players?) And a tip: every time a main tank died it
was because we had a healing gap from clerics looking for mod rods. Every.
Last. Time.
> I've tried the poos (snare I assume? not stun) but didn't find them too
> useful.
Yeah, FG poos. Our warriors swear by them - great way to catapult
yourself up the hate list after any de-aggro effect. Positioning is the key
to holding that aggro, but for build-up they go with snare pods.
> Starting off with bane2h, then switching to hates seems to work
> best for me
I think they start off with at least hate offhand. I recognized the
profile of a baby rattle on one warrior and a Lammy on another before I
started looking at the ground. I didn't even know he was dead until the
whoops started - no faction hit for me. Then I looked up and saw he'd moved
to within melee distance of me during the fight - which explained why every
so often I'd see some tank's feet walk across our mod rods!
> but other warriors in the guild prefer doing it their own
> way. Taunt is such a fickle beast, I'm sure a lot of it is just the mob
> feeling the confidence in a warrior hehe.
Our first three main tanks are trolls - we use the sheer power of ugly
to generate hate. Especially the female troll warlord. ;-)
> >> Personally, I think VI has done an amazing job, particularly on with
> >> Emp, in bringing raid-critical roles to a number of previously
un-useful
> >> classes.
> >
> > Well, I'm sure the necromancers aren't happy at being sent to the
> >basement - or, at least aren't happy until they see everyone else get
wiped.
>
> eeewww... cheesy ):oP
LOL, yup. Pure cheddar. If there were something Wrackable in the room
we'd have them there, but there isn't. This, like snare pods, is something
we figure will eventually be fixed so we're still working on things like mod
placement (we can keep modding up all fight, but we risk more healing gaps
that way). I must admit that my "If you aren't a cleric or mage GET THE HELL
AWAY FROM ME" hotkey worked wonders that fight for keeping greedy wizards
off the rods, though.
> >> It's a big step away from the usual 'throw wars and clerics at
> >> it until it dies' tactic.
> >
> > If we had enough WARs and CLRs, they'd replace the offtanks and
offtank
> >healers. You just run into a numbers issue.
>
> But they wouldn't do as good a job.
On the offtanking? Oh, I beg to differ there. The ability of a cleric to
keep tanks up and running for nearly an hour of offtanking is on a par with
a shaman's ability to do the same. We prefer the shaman only because the
mobs need to be slowed anyways, and torporing an offtank actually helps keep
the offtank mob alive. And having a warrior there would be huge - the
ability to AoE Taunt and tank in case an enchanter got too many resists/went
LD would be crucial in saving a bad situation.
The numbers issue I refer to is the number of clerics and warriors in
the guild. We have them pretty much all assigned jobs away from the
offtanking, so setting them as offtanks hurts us elsewhere. If we were like
our competition, with minimal hybrids and a metric ton of warriors, we'd
have warrior offtanks.
James
James Grahame
> In article <EwX_8.1$Vj3....@news0.telusplanet.net>, James Grahame
> <jamesg...@shaw.ca> writes
> >> An efficient EXP group has neither a cleric to CH, nor a warrior to
> >> maximise the benefit of CHs
> >
> > Cazic Thule. Excellent XP, and the DPS of the mobs (and the
possibility
> >of being steamrolled with multiples) ensures the presence of a cleric.
> >There's other places like mines in Ssra where the sheer number of pulls
> >overwhelms shaman slows and leans towards cleric healing, but CT is the
best
> >example.
>
> Neither of which I would classify as a power-exp group, though you can
> certainly get very good exp there. The best exp groups involve the
> highest DPS (faster mobs killed = more mobs killed) and least downtime.
In that case, the best XP groups all have clerics in them: AoE groups.
;-) And note that you didn't say "power XP groups" at first, but merely
"efficient XP groups". Anyone earning the kind of XP CT offers is likely
pretty efficient.
> CT is good exp, agreed, but since you need a cler + slower/messer
> there's 2-3 people in the group with little or no damage output.
> Therefore they have to have a lower kill rate than the group where
> everyone if doing max damage
Depends strongly on the mobs. With a cleric you can handle high damage,
low HP mobs that are much higher level (51-55) than the
shaman-as-only-healer group. One blown slow usually sets a shaman-only group
back unless they're plowing through low blues, like in FG. And most of the
zones like FG that have hordes of those low blues are camped by AoE groups
24/7.
James
Celaeno
I just don't get him. He wanted his druid to be a cleric, so he
stopped playing the druid and made a cleric, which makes sense.
However, he persists in wanting his druid to be a cleric and thinking
that other druids should also want their druids to be clerics and want
CH, which he keeps wishing for, either directly or notquitedirectly,
like above. Makes you want to just smack him silly, doesn't it?
sanjian
news:3d3dbc8f...@news.world-online.no...
> You will not evade me, "sanjian" <san...@widomaker.com>:
> >Still haven't figured out that a druid isn't the main healing class?
>
> I just don't get him. He wanted his druid to be a cleric, so he
> stopped playing the druid and made a cleric, which makes sense.
> However, he persists in wanting his druid to be a cleric and thinking
> that other druids should also want their druids to be clerics and want
> CH, which he keeps wishing for, either directly or notquitedirectly,
> like above. Makes you want to just smack him silly, doesn't it?
It confuzzles me. I realize my paladin isn't a warrior. She'll never hit
as hard as a warrior, she'll never have the HP that a similarly equipped and
leveled warrior will have. Frankly, Paladins and SK's aren't "main tanking"
classes, just as druids and shamen aren't "main healing classes." None the
less, all four have things they can bring to the table.
-Martin
yep!
-m
sensei grandmaster
prexus
Ben wilson
<jamesg...@shaw.ca> writes
>"Ben wilson" <bwi...@armoury1.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:mw+kHZAc...@armoury1.demon.co.uk...
>> adds, and a few runs 'pulling', and a few runs finding out the best
>> placement. Once that was all set, our first real attempt got emp to 90%,
>> next attempt got him to 60%, and our last attempt was an infuriatingly
>> close sliver of red. IMO, if you can get Emp to 60% legitimately (ie:
>> not MB/disc/hoop zerging) you can kill him with the same strat.
>
> And we did, last night. =) =) =) =) =) =) We're going to Vex Thal!!!
>Drops were melee shoes, caster cloak, and the "OMG" robe.
WoW! Jackpot! Those mocassins are OMG too! Grats on reaching the next
stage - hopefully we're right on your heals hehe.
>
>> We
>> lacked DPS last time, so that sliver of red took us nearly an hour of
>> fighting. Wednesday, he dies!
>
> Good luck, Ben. We found the same thing - get a few more people things
>they didn't think were important, like offhand Bane, and we had enough. We
>dropped him in about 30 minutes, IIRC - that's the time to aim for. For
>reference that's with 80 people (we have over 110 keyed - see what I mean
>about a lot of part-time players?) And a tip: every time a main tank died it
>was because we had a healing gap from clerics looking for mod rods. Every.
>Last. Time.
That was why we lost the time before. Got him to 60%, driving along
nicely, then suddenly the rods ran out, clerics ran oom, and you can
guess the rest.
>
>> I've tried the poos (snare I assume? not stun) but didn't find them too
>> useful.
>
> Yeah, FG poos. Our warriors swear by them - great way to catapult
>yourself up the hate list after any de-aggro effect. Positioning is the key
>to holding that aggro, but for build-up they go with snare pods.
Some of our warriors do, but I'm left unimpressed. Discharged 5 shots
like an uzi one emp run, whist looking up his skirt (metaphorically).
He's just popped, and totally ignored our initial plans to drag him to
the kill group, chosing to charge ATs instead. Less than 2 seconds after
popping, no-one had cast on him directly, and 5 chain snares didn't make
him bat an eyelid. As with a lot of warrior tactics, it comes down to
personal preference I guess.
>> >> It's a big step away from the usual 'throw wars and clerics at
>> >> it until it dies' tactic.
>> >
>> > If we had enough WARs and CLRs, they'd replace the offtanks and
>offtank
>> >healers. You just run into a numbers issue.
>>
>> But they wouldn't do as good a job.
>
> On the offtanking? Oh, I beg to differ there. The ability of a cleric to
>keep tanks up and running for nearly an hour of offtanking is on a par with
>a shaman's ability to do the same. We prefer the shaman only because the
>mobs need to be slowed anyways, and torporing an offtank actually helps keep
>the offtank mob alive. And having a warrior there would be huge - the
>ability to AoE Taunt and tank in case an enchanter got too many resists/went
>LD would be crucial in saving a bad situation.
But that is where warriors fall behind. Pal and especially SK are
infinitely better than warriors at no-damage offtanking a mob, and/or
picking up an enchanter's loose mob. It's also easier for them to hold
that agro while it's remezzed. A decently equipped SK can hold both 58s
indefinately, with a minimum of healing. Give em KEI and regen and their
pretty much self sufficient. The more healing they get, the slower their
mobs die, and the occasional torp from the shaman who's there anyway,
frees up people from bein tied to the AT group needlesly
>
> The numbers issue I refer to is the number of clerics and warriors in
>the guild. We have them pretty much all assigned jobs away from the
>offtanking, so setting them as offtanks hurts us elsewhere. If we were like
>our competition, with minimal hybrids and a metric ton of warriors, we'd
>have warrior offtanks.
The last attempt (Red sliver) we had 5 'useable' warriors, but one of
them hit the wrong disc, so was pretty useless. 4 MTs, we died quite a
lot, and it was a bit of a zerg on the MT team, but we learned what's
needed - a tighter system. Bear in mind the other 2 high level guilds
were also in the zone, topped out at 145 on /who, so we had far too many
random LDs to deal with too.
Ben wilson
<jamesg...@shaw.ca> writes
>> > Well, I'm sure the necromancers aren't happy at being sent to the
>> >basement - or, at least aren't happy until they see everyone else get
>wiped.
>>
>> eeewww... cheesy ):oP
>
> LOL, yup. Pure cheddar. If there were something Wrackable in the room
>we'd have them there, but there isn't. This, like snare pods, is something
>we figure will eventually be fixed so we're still working on things like mod
>placement
hehe, wrack was fixed in today's patch
James Grahame
> In article <FGg%8.5009$Xb2.1...@news2.telusplanet.net>, James Grahame
> <jamesg...@shaw.ca> writes
> >
things
> >they didn't think were important, like offhand Bane, and we had enough.
We
> >dropped him in about 30 minutes, IIRC - that's the time to aim for. For
> >reference that's with 80 people (we have over 110 keyed - see what I mean
> >about a lot of part-time players?) And a tip: every time a main tank died
it
> >was because we had a healing gap from clerics looking for mod rods.
Every.
> >Last. Time.
>
> That was why we lost the time before. Got him to 60%, driving along
> nicely, then suddenly the rods ran out, clerics ran oom, and you can
> guess the rest.
Ayup. In our case rods didn't run out so much as rods were placed in bad
spots. If the clerics aren't tightly clumped around their mage, then the
mage moves to cleric A to drop a rod in front of him. Cleric B sees a rod in
front of A, needs a rod, goes and takes A's rod. Now A is running around
looking for the rod in front of cleric C. And so on.
> >> I've tried the poos (snare I assume? not stun) but didn't find them too
> >> useful.
> >
> > Yeah, FG poos. Our warriors swear by them - great way to catapult
> >yourself up the hate list after any de-aggro effect. Positioning is the
key
> >to holding that aggro, but for build-up they go with snare pods.
>
> Some of our warriors do, but I'm left unimpressed. Discharged 5 shots
> like an uzi one emp run
Five? Last Emperor run our first main tank blew through two full pods on
incoming. Glad they're cheap to recharge, or I'd never see the outside of
Fungus Grove come XP time.
> Less than 2 seconds after
> popping, no-one had cast on him directly, and 5 chain snares didn't make
> him bat an eyelid.
Proximity. We had one warrior during our practice runs tank him through
several de-aggro procs just because he was closest by a fair margin. Poo and
proximity = one Emperor glued to you.
> > On the offtanking? Oh, I beg to differ there. The ability of a cleric
to
> >keep tanks up and running for nearly an hour of offtanking is on a par
with
> >a shaman's ability to do the same. We prefer the shaman only because the
> >mobs need to be slowed anyways, and torporing an offtank actually helps
keep
> >the offtank mob alive. And having a warrior there would be huge - the
> >ability to AoE Taunt and tank in case an enchanter got too many
resists/went
> >LD would be crucial in saving a bad situation.
>
> But that is where warriors fall behind. Pal and especially SK are
> infinitely better than warriors at no-damage offtanking a mob
Unequip weapons. Even our paladins have to do that because of how slow
those darned things regen.
> The last attempt (Red sliver) we had 5 'useable' warriors, but one of
> them hit the wrong disc
Was it Evasive? Some of our warriors have been experimenting with that
as per the guidelines on Steel Warrior. So far, the results have been
mixed - we've seen some good saves when a /disc cycles faster but we've also
been hit with the "bad rounds" that don't happen when you use Defensive. I
think it might be better in situations where defensive is being used not
because the tank will die without out, but just to save healer mana. Like on
the high HP trash mobs we'll be seeing in VT soon. =)
> Bear in mind the other 2 high level guilds
> were also in the zone, topped out at 145 on /who, so we had far too many
> random LDs to deal with too.
We had 80 of ours, and 55 from one of the two other Ssra guilds. It will
never get any better, I'm afraid.
Today should be interesting. The guild that used to be number one on our
server, Vis Maior, has asked for a shot at Emperor today. And without
prompting, they've offered to give us whatever drops off Blood in order to
get that shot. They recently lost over a dozen of their best-equipped
members to a new guild, so it should be interesting to see first-hand how
they do and how they approach the fight (we'll have people in the room to
loot). We THINK they're a lot further back than they do - they just
discovered the line-of-sight room-wide aggro, for instance - but we'll see!
James
James Grahame
> In article <FGg%8.5009$Xb2.1...@news2.telusplanet.net>, James Grahame
> <jamesg...@shaw.ca> writes
> >> > Well, I'm sure the necromancers aren't happy at being sent to the
> >> >basement - or, at least aren't happy until they see everyone else get
> >wiped.
> >>
> >> eeewww... cheesy ):oP
> >
> > LOL, yup. Pure cheddar. If there were something Wrackable in the room
> >we'd have them there, but there isn't. This, like snare pods, is
something
> >we figure will eventually be fixed so we're still working on things like
mod
> >placement
>
> hehe, wrack was fixed in today's patch
Time to recruit more mages!! If I can see the floor, we do NOT have
enough mod rods! ;-)
James
hughes
> stopped playing the druid and made a cleric, which makes sense.
> However, he persists in wanting his druid to be a cleric and thinking
> that other druids should also want their druids to be clerics and want
> CH, which he keeps wishing for, either directly or notquitedirectly,
> like above. Makes you want to just smack him silly, doesn't it?
Ok ill try and explain it in simple terms. I would really like to see the
classes balanced in overall desiredness. I like Eq even though it has some
really serious flaws , if they can repair the flaws more people may come
play or more people may come back from other games. If more people show up
the game I like has a good chance of lasting a long time and perhaps even
getting better.
hughes
I wonder which one they where trying to fix?
The infinite mana or the absurd regen rate of health in groups. If they had
seen the mana trick they would have issued warnings right then. Necromancers
as healer is a trick they might have caught on to though since it has been
around forever.
Brian Hance
<hugh...@nospamearthlink.net> wrote:
>Ok ill try and explain it in simple terms. I would really like to see the
>classes balanced in overall desiredness.
Question, why do all classes have to have the same level of
"desiredness"?
Druids aren't desired as much in groups because their perceived
limitations? So what, because they have the ability to be very good
soloers all the way from 1 to 60.
Shaman are good soloers, but not nearly as good at druids. But they
are better buffers, and they have that all important slow line of
spells, so they are more desired.
Clerics suck ass as soloers, but they are the god class when it comes
to healing. This means that they are very desired for groups, and
good for them.
Seems pretty well balanced to me.
--
Brian Hance
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself.
They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings."
Humphrey Bogart from THE BIG SLEEP
hughes
> limitations? So what, because they have the ability to be very good
> soloers all the way from 1 to 60.
>
> Shaman are good soloers, but not nearly as good at druids. But they
> are better buffers, and they have that all important slow line of
> spells, so they are more desired.
>
> Clerics suck ass as soloers, but they are the god class when it comes
> to healing. This means that they are very desired for groups, and
> good for them.
>
> Seems pretty well balanced to me.
Which is the problem. The general mass does not understand the problems.
1)soloing is not really important for any class.
2a)Shamans are at least twice as good at soloing for raw exp
2b)When was the last time you saw a druid solo a dragon or rumblecrush ?
c) clerics suck ass at soloing , they however can do it to lvl 60 with
little trouble. The reason they dont bother is that soloing inherently sucks
and it is easy to get a group as a cleric so there is no real incentive to
learn. (The same aplies for enchanters)
Brian Hance
<hugh...@nospamearthlink.net> wrote:
>Which is the problem. The general mass does not understand the problems.
"General mass"? Thank you so much for deigning to come down to our
level and enlighten us.
Anyway...
>1)soloing is not really important for any class.
Yes, it is VERY important. It means that a class is not dependant on
others to advance. You don't have to invest time in getting guildies
together when you want to play to go where the hell ever and hunt.
You aren't gambling on the quality of players you find in a pick up
group. If you wanna just log in at any random time, you can spend an
hour actually gaining exp without having to muck around.
Soloing is a HUGE advantage to any class.
>2a)Shamans are at least twice as good at soloing for raw exp
Bullshit. Most of the shammy DoT's I've seen have about the same cast
time as a druids. Like five or six seconds. From the time a mob gets
into range and you start to cast to the time the cast ends, six
seconds means it IS going to be hitting you. Add into the fact that
killing with one DoT is VERY slow, so you'll be using multiples, you
have that same cast time to wait through several times. Even with
those nice HP buffs that shaman get, at any reasonable level soloing
that way isn't going to happen easily.
But druids can solo ANY mob they can get spells to land on starting at
level 1 and going all the way to 60, with little or no danger. And
all because of one spell. Snare. Any druid. Worshipping any god.
As much as snare is respected in game, it is indescribably HUGE to a
soloer.
>2b)When was the last time you saw a druid solo a dragon or rumblecrush ?
Never. So what? No, a dedicated, played the whole game solo soloer
won't be able to go on raids. That's not the point.
>c) clerics suck ass at soloing , they however can do it to lvl 60 with
>little trouble. The reason they dont bother is that soloing inherently sucks
>and it is easy to get a group as a cleric so there is no real incentive to
>learn. (The same aplies for enchanters)
I'm sorry, but my druid can make more exp quadding in CS at 53 than I
did in a friggin Karnors group at the same level. And that's without
deaths.
Richard
news:t2rvjuc5lgjhav38u...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 25 Jul 2002 11:09:25 GMT, "hughes"
> <hugh...@nospamearthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >Which is the problem. The general mass does not understand the problems.
>
> "General mass"? Thank you so much for deigning to come down to our
> level and enlighten us.
>
> Anyway...
>
> >1)soloing is not really important for any class.
>
> Yes, it is VERY important. It means that a class is not dependant on
> others to advance. You don't have to invest time in getting guildies
> together when you want to play to go where the hell ever and hunt.
> You aren't gambling on the quality of players you find in a pick up
> group. If you wanna just log in at any random time, you can spend an
> hour actually gaining exp without having to muck around.
>
> Soloing is a HUGE advantage to any class.
>
> >2a)Shamans are at least twice as good at soloing for raw exp
>
> Bullshit. Most of the shammy DoT's I've seen have about the same cast
> time as a druids. Like five or six seconds. From the time a mob gets
> into range and you start to cast to the time the cast ends, six
> seconds means it IS going to be hitting you. Add into the fact that
> killing with one DoT is VERY slow, so you'll be using multiples, you
> have that same cast time to wait through several times. Even with
> those nice HP buffs that shaman get, at any reasonable level soloing
> that way isn't going to happen easily.
Without the epic, shaman have two lines of DoTs, slow disease based ones,
and fast poison based ones. At 54, I have the two best DoTs I will be
getting, got them at 49 I think. They each do about 1k damage. When I
solo, I pull with my best debuff spell, run to a safish spot, root the mob.
So far, he has not hit me at all. I move out as far as I can, and cast one
DoT (has a DD component on both), if root breaks, I run off a ways, and
reroot. Still no damage on me. Cast second DoT, run reroot if needed.
Move off out of spell range, sit and med. When root breaks, stand, keep
trying to cast until mob is in range, if not resisted, mob is rooted before
it hits me. Refresh DoTs and roots as needed. The shaman epic adds a third
stackable DoT that is equivalent to the other two. The only time I get hit
doing this is when root is resisted, and I don't turn to run fast enough, or
when I make a mistake gauging the distance.
>
> But druids can solo ANY mob they can get spells to land on starting at
> level 1 and going all the way to 60, with little or no danger. And
> all because of one spell. Snare. Any druid. Worshipping any god.
>
> As much as snare is respected in game, it is indescribably HUGE to a
> soloer.
No question there at all. If I had snare, it would make my soloing much
easier.
>
> >2b)When was the last time you saw a druid solo a dragon or rumblecrush ?
>
> Never. So what? No, a dedicated, played the whole game solo soloer
> won't be able to go on raids. That's not the point.
>
> >c) clerics suck ass at soloing , they however can do it to lvl 60 with
> >little trouble. The reason they dont bother is that soloing inherently
sucks
> >and it is easy to get a group as a cleric so there is no real incentive
to
> >learn. (The same aplies for enchanters)
>
> I'm sorry, but my druid can make more exp quadding in CS at 53 than I
> did in a friggin Karnors group at the same level. And that's without
> deaths.
>
I know when I ask what my druid friends are up to when they aren't grouping,
it is almost inevitably, quadding CS.
--
Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Mystic of 54 seasons, Erollisi Marr <The
Appointed>
Tainniel, Halfling Warrior of 29 seasons, Erollisi Marr <The Appointed>
Ganwein, Wood Elf Ranger of 15 seasons, Erollisi Marr <The Appointed>
Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 15 seasons, Erollisi Marr <Decadence>
Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 18 seasons, Erollisi Marr <The Appointed>
James Grahame
> > > hehe, wrack was fixed in today's patch
>
> I wonder which one they where trying to fix?
>
> The infinite mana or the absurd regen rate of health in groups.
They fixed them both. =)
> If they had
> seen the mana trick they would have issued warnings right then.
Doubtful - there's a LOT of spells that never considered the Z-axis
before, and usually it was to the detriment of players. Our losing our AoE
mana song bard during an Emperor fight because she got summoned out of the
room to a wipe-out in the mines was not to our advantage.
James
Dream King
>1)soloing is not really important for any class.
Not important so to speak but if you want to maximize your playing time
it's rather nice to be able to do.
>2a)Shamans are at least twice as good at soloing for raw exp
As opposed to what, Druids?
>2b)When was the last time you saw a druid solo a dragon or rumblecrush ?
When was the last time you saw any class solo Rumblecrush? As for
Dragons... I'm not sure I'd even consider Yeldema a Dragon for how gimpy
he is.
Sean Kennedy
news:3d594b7c....@news.supernews.com:
I'd have to search pretty far back, but a mage took
Yeldema down. He had some bodies in zone with orbs
and rods on them though.
Mark A. Rimer
news:Xns92569C300C6D...@207.225.159.7...
> I'd have to search pretty far back, but a mage took
> Yeldema down. He had some bodies in zone with orbs
> and rods on them though.
3 or four weeks ago, a 57 necro and 60 monk in
my guild duo'd him by accident...they were aggro'd
running through, and thought "what the hell, why
not?" (FD classes are silly like that).
Necro didn't even start out with a pet, and monk had
to FD a couple of times, but Yeld couldn't regen
very well with the DoTs on him (necro ended up
having to Gate because he couldn't FD off with his
DoT going) to keep up with the monk's fungi/iksar/
aa regen, and ended up just dying while the monk
was at 40% or so.
Wonder if I could get ID to work with my rogue...
;-)
<that last was most definately a joke ;-) >
sanjian
> <hugh...@nospamearthlink.net> wrote:
> >2b)When was the last time you saw a druid solo a dragon or rumblecrush ?
>
> Never. So what? No, a dedicated, played the whole game solo soloer
> won't be able to go on raids. That's not the point.
Or, rather, that _is_ the point. Druids and necros are what Verant offers
those who, for some reason or another, want a soloing character. The
drawback is that they aren't as good in raids (which fits the nature of the
character). The type of player that's meant to play a druid is one that
wants to solo... that's how the character is designed. To help with
grouping, the druid is given some clerical spells, but that's not the
empahsis of the class. All this is IMHO, of course.
Celaeno
>> I just don't get him. He wanted his druid to be a cleric, so he
>> stopped playing the druid and made a cleric, which makes sense.
>> However, he persists in wanting his druid to be a cleric and thinking
>> that other druids should also want their druids to be clerics and want
>> CH, which he keeps wishing for, either directly or notquitedirectly,
>> like above. Makes you want to just smack him silly, doesn't it?
>
>Ok ill try and explain it in simple terms. I would really like to see the
>classes balanced in overall desiredness.
No. You want druids to become clerics. That isn't balancing. And I
still want to smack you silly.
Celaeno
>"Brian Hance" <bha...@net-prophet.com> wrote in message
>news:t2rvjuc5lgjhav38u...@4ax.com...
>> I'm sorry, but my druid can make more exp quadding in CS at 53 than I
>> did in a friggin Karnors group at the same level. And that's without
>> deaths.
I preferred soloing in DL to get through 51 and 52. KC was too slow.
>I know when I ask what my druid friends are up to when they aren't grouping,
>it is almost inevitably, quadding CS.
Not me. I'm off doing the relaxing task of soloing velium hounds :)
David Navarro
Actually, stuff the healing. If they remove all my healing spells and
give me bigger nukes, I'll be a happy camper. :)
I could play a Wizard, but I'm too fond of Ensnare and my DoTs...
--
Hanrahan Thornhide, Human Wanderer, 52, Fennin Ro
"You can't keep a good man down, but it's even harder
to get rid of gits" --The Hierophant, Fortean Times
hughes
> still want to smack you silly.
I want generalists as a class to be improved to the point of viability. This
has largely happened for rangers , shadowknights , bards , and paladins.
This balance was achieved among the semis by reducing the experience needed
to advance by a 3rd and increasing the abilities of both there magic casting
and there melee abilities by 50%.
The generalist casters are in far worse shape than the semis ever where and
the druid the worst of of these. I miss my friends that used to play druids
and necros . THEY LEFT . They are not comming back . They left because of
imbalance and uselessness, and thus this game that is good for so many of us
failed them.
David Navarro
> The generalist casters are in far worse shape than the semis ever
> where and the druid the worst of of these. I miss my friends that
> used to play druids and necros . THEY LEFT . They are not comming
> back . They left because of imbalance and uselessness, and thus this
> game that is good for so many of us failed them.
Don't know about that... In Fennin Ro, as of the last time I logged in,
Druids were still a plague upon the land...
kaev
<snip>
> The generalist casters are in far worse shape than the semis ever where ...
<snip>
Do you really expect to be taken seriously when you post statements
like this? The generalist casters have a strong role in the game,
even if they don't always have as strong a role in particular raids
as you think they ought to. The knights and the Rogue were so broken
early on that they couldn't get a group at any level except out of
ignorance or pity (or friendship maybe, but I think most of those
cases were just disguised pity).
Actually, looking back on it, I find it slightly amazing that they
managed to have the Rogue be so badly broken and so easy to fix (Evade
and the Hide/Sneak upgrade), given how many different upgrades it took
to "balance" the knights.
Kaev
Mark A. Rimer
news:3D431236...@nospam.yuck.net...
> Actually, looking back on it, I find it slightly amazing that they
> managed to have the Rogue be so badly broken and so easy to fix (Evade
> and the Hide/Sneak upgrade), given how many different upgrades it took
> to "balance" the knights.
Yep...I can remember starting out when it was possible to do /who all
rog and get 11 names...and you personally KNEW all 10 of the others...
;-)
Briarroot
I remember the last week in April 1999, about 6 weeks after launch,
when Aradune (Brad McQuaid) made a server-wide announcement on Tunare
to congratulate the first player to reach level 50, which was then
the highest possible level. Immediately 1000 pairs of hands typed
out /whoall Soandso and where shocked to find that he was a Rogue!
Even the most "broken" class can be played well by a savvy player.
;-)
David Navarro
> I remember the last week in April 1999, about 6 weeks after launch,
> when Aradune (Brad McQuaid) made a server-wide announcement on Tunare
> to congratulate the first player to reach level 50, which was then
> the highest possible level. Immediately 1000 pairs of hands typed
> out /whoall Soandso and where shocked to find that he was a Rogue!
>
> Even the most "broken" class can be played well by a savvy player.
>
> ;-)
Or several players sharing the account and levelling 24/7, as in that
particular instance...
Briarroot
>
> Briarroot wrote:
>
> > I remember the last week in April 1999, about 6 weeks after launch,
> > when Aradune (Brad McQuaid) made a server-wide announcement on Tunare
> > to congratulate the first player to reach level 50, which was then
> > the highest possible level. Immediately 1000 pairs of hands typed
> > out /whoall Soandso and where shocked to find that he was a Rogue!
> >
> > Even the most "broken" class can be played well by a savvy player.
> >
> > ;-)
>
> Or several players sharing the account and levelling 24/7, as in that
> particular instance...
Yeah, but... a rogue!
Celaeno
>> No. You want druids to become clerics. That isn't balancing. And I
>> still want to smack you silly.
>
>I want generalists as a class to be improved to the point of viability.
No. You want druids to become clerics.
If you had had the faintest clue about how to play a druid in a viable
manner, you'd want small tweaks like a faster NT or something. You
would not be continually whining about CH.
Mark A. Rimer
news:3D446C97...@iwon.com...
Also not too difficult...it would have either been a rogue or a warrior,
because both had a 5% experience bonus. Also, halflings had a
5% exp bonus on top of that. The rogue in question also had a perma-
group of RL friends, that grouped with him in SPITE of him being
a rogue (which was still nice at the time). He had no trouble exp'ing
in the only two real 40+ zones in the game, Sol B and L. Guk.
When I saw my first epic'd vah shir rogue 2 weeks after Luclin
went live, I knew things were a bit better for any rogue made
post-Kunark...
;-)
hughes
>
> No. You want druids to become clerics.
>
> If you had had the faintest clue about how to play a druid in a viable
> manner, you'd want small tweaks like a faster NT or something. You
> would not be continually whining about CH.
snicker. If you had the faintest clue about how useless you where going to
end up as a druid you would lament that I only want to give you a 80% cheal
clone :p
-Martin
> snicker. If you had the faintest clue about how useless you where going to
> end up as a druid you would lament that I only want to give you a 80%
cheal
> clone :p
seems to me the only useless druid around here is you.
I mean cel can solo, group, raid with her druid just fine... she'd like a
few tweaks as we all would (like make FD work plz!) but other than that shes
fine.
You on the other hand.. well you must suck ass at playing one, to keep
crying for all sorts of upgrades. Funny that, I've seen druids widely
regarded as one of the easiest classes to play/level (even the creation
screen when picking a home city tells you that...)
Ah well, I guess the class wasn't really intended for *any* idiot to be able
to play it. Sorry hughes.
-m
sensei grandmaster
prexus
Richard
news:3d41a458...@news.world-online.no...
You are on a mission to get that shawl I would assume. I still need to
finish up number 5 right now, still need 50 threads, and another 50 or more
points in tailoring. The other exception I know of is our resident
hierophant in guild, he's usually off wreaking havoc in a wide variety of
zones, just having fun, and working on that alt xp.
--
Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Mystic of 54 seasons, Erollisi Marr <The
Appointed>
Tainniel, Halfling Warrior of 29 seasons, Erollisi Marr <The Appointed>
Ganwein, Wood Elf Ranger of 15 seasons, Erollisi Marr <The Appointed>
Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 15 seasons, Erollisi Marr <Decadence>
Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 19 seasons, Erollisi Marr <The Appointed>
Richard
Given the number of level 60 druids I see running around, and that I know,
it obviously does not appear to be a major drain on the druid population.
Richard
news:fX219.40351$ND5.3...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
<snip>
> Also not too difficult...it would have either been a rogue or a warrior,
> because both had a 5% experience bonus. Also, halflings had a
> 5% exp bonus on top of that. The rogue in question also had a perma-
Isn't that 10% for Halflings?
--
Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Mystic of 54 seasons, Erollisi Marr <The
Appointed>
Tainniel, Halfling Warrior of 29 seasons, Erollisi Marr <The Appointed>
Ganwein, Wood Elf Ranger of 15 seasons, Erollisi Marr <The Appointed>
Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 15 seasons, Erollisi Marr <Decadence>
Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 20 seasons, Erollisi Marr <The Appointed>
James Grahame
"Mark A. Rimer" <locu...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:fX219.40351$ND5.3...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> news:3D446C97...@iwon.com...
> > David Navarro wrote:
> > > Briarroot wrote:
> > >
> > > > I remember the last week in April 1999, about 6 weeks after launch,
> > > > when Aradune (Brad McQuaid) made a server-wide announcement on
Tunare
> > > > to congratulate the first player to reach level 50, which was then
> > > > the highest possible level. Immediately 1000 pairs of hands typed
> > > > out /whoall Soandso and where shocked to find that he was a Rogue!
> > > >
> > > > Even the most "broken" class can be played well by a savvy player.
> > >
> > > particular instance...
> >
> > Yeah, but... a rogue!
>
> Also not too difficult...it would have either been a rogue or a warrior,
> because both had a 5% experience bonus. Also, halflings had a
> 5% exp bonus on top of that. The rogue in question also had a perma-
> group of RL friends, that grouped with him in SPITE of him being
> a rogue (which was still nice at the time). He had no trouble exp'ing
> in the only two real 40+ zones in the game, Sol B and L. Guk.
Well, he had two friends - another rogue, and a cleric. And where they
had no trouble XP'ing was the Dar Ghoul spawn in Upper Guk. What, you say -
there are no Dars in Upper? You're right - there aren't now after those
three rode them to 50 as fast as they did. Just like there's no more
accountant in High Keep.
James
sanjian
> You will not evade me, "hughes" <hugh...@nospamearthlink.net>:
>
> >> No. You want druids to become clerics. That isn't balancing. And I
> >> still want to smack you silly.
> >
> >I want generalists as a class to be improved to the point of viability.
>
> No. You want druids to become clerics.
>
> If you had had the faintest clue about how to play a druid in a viable
> manner, you'd want small tweaks like a faster NT or something. You
> would not be continually whining about CH.
Still, you must have known that, even if Verant lifted the 10% penalty, some
of your fellow druids would complain that even that's not enough. Maybe
Verant should publish a character "concept" guide. It's possible that they
would, for once and for all, dispel the myth that druids and shamen are
"main healer" classes.
Mark A. Rimer
news:ai3hf4$1115rd$1...@ID-111521.news.dfncis.de...
> "Mark A. Rimer" <locu...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:fX219.40351$ND5.3...@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com...
> <snip>
> > Also not too difficult...it would have either been a rogue or a warrior,
> > because both had a 5% experience bonus. Also, halflings had a
> > 5% exp bonus on top of that. The rogue in question also had a perma-
> <snip>
>
> Isn't that 10% for Halflings?
I think it was just 5% as a racial bonus...making hafling
rogue/warrior have a combined 10% bonus.
Brian Hance
wrote:
>"Celaeno" <cel...@choklit.nospam.org> wrote in message
>news:3d441ab8...@news.world-online.no...
>> You will not evade me, "hughes" <hugh...@nospamearthlink.net>:
>> >> No. You want druids to become clerics. That isn't balancing. And I
>> >> still want to smack you silly.
>> >I want generalists as a class to be improved to the point of viability.
>> No. You want druids to become clerics.
>> If you had had the faintest clue about how to play a druid in a viable
>> manner, you'd want small tweaks like a faster NT or something. You
>> would not be continually whining about CH.
>Still, you must have known that, even if Verant lifted the 10% penalty, some
>of your fellow druids would complain that even that's not enough.
This isn't new and doesn't really have anything to do with removing
the 10% penalty. It's been brewing for awhile now and came to a head
a few months ago when a bunch of people got together on The Druids
Grove (I think) and came up with that silly ass Druids petition. You
might remember the zombie thread it spawned, which was the first time
myself and Mr. hughes had this discussion. This whole thing is just a
rehash.
>Maybe
>Verant should publish a character "concept" guide. It's possible that they
>would, for once and for all, dispel the myth that druids and shamen are
>"main healer" classes.
I think a concept guide would only get Verant in more trouble than it
would be worth. Any deviation from the 'guide' would call down
legions of anal-retentive, hyper-obsessive nimrods to bitch and moan
about how Verant is trying to screw X class because they aren't
following said guide slavishly.
--
Brian Hance
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself.
They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings."
Humphrey Bogart from THE BIG SLEEP
hughes
> crying for all sorts of upgrades. Funny that, I've seen druids widely
> regarded as one of the easiest classes to play/level (even the creation
> screen when picking a home city tells you that...)
>
> Ah well, I guess the class wasn't really intended for *any* idiot to be
able
> to play it. Sorry hughes.
Gee that must be it ! All this time I thought druids where underpowered but
it must just be my complete inability to play one. It is true that any idiot
can get to 60 and that is proven daily . Since I have 6 characters above 50
I must be 6 times the normal level of idiocy ! :)
It just could not be that I regret the waste of time leveling the druid. I
can not possibly be telling the truth when I mention friends long gone from
the druidic ranks and game. Why examine the evidence, when the poll results
are already in ! Everyone knows druids are the best at soloing and that
soloing is the one end all and be all ! Everyone knows that druids where
never parked at the dungeon entrance calling for hours for a group !
Ill take solace in knowing that my druid as badly as I play him could take
that sap encrusted branch you are so proud of and stick it where the sun
dont shine :p Of course dueling is not real important either ;)
-Martin
> 1)soloing is not really important for any class.
The ability to never have to rely on another class? Yeah right
> 2a)Shamans are at least twice as good at soloing for raw exp
Whilst I don't have a druid, I do have a 60 shaman, and I think you sir, are
talking out of your ass
> 2b)When was the last time you saw a druid solo a dragon or rumblecrush ?
Whens the last time you saw ANY class solo rumblecrush? lmao. As for the
weak WW "dragons" (can you call them that) they have been solod by chanters,
shamans, bards, necros, a magician.. I bet theres a lot more classes that
have done it too
> c) clerics suck ass at soloing , they however can do it to lvl 60 with
> little trouble.
And druids have trouble getting to 60? Lol please.
Soloing/quadding is on a par with most AE groups (exception would be
extremely efficient powerful ae'ers)
> and it is easy to get a group as a cleric so there is no real incentive to
> learn. (The same aplies for enchanters)
Whats that got to do with anything? Knights, Monks, Rogues, Rangers.. they
all aren't NEEDED in groups.. does that mean my monk can get cheal too, to
"balance" my class? lol
-m
sensei grandmaster
prexus
-Martin
> Gee that must be it ! All this time I thought druids where underpowered
but
> it must just be my complete inability to play one. It is true that any
idiot
> can get to 60 and that is proven daily . Since I have 6 characters above
50
> I must be 6 times the normal level of idiocy ! :)
Well what other explanation is there? Im damned if I know.. other than your
a total moron. Btw im thrilled you have 6 characters above 50, dick wave
all you want, it doesn't really impress me though. Lets see, 60monk (126aa
levels), 60 shaman, 60 cleric, 59 wizard, 54 Shadowknight, 53 magician.. btw
guess what, I make that 6 for me also. Try and make sure you have a leg to
stand on before dick waving in the future, just some friendly advice
> the druidic ranks and game. Why examine the evidence, when the poll
results
> are already in ! Everyone knows druids are the best at soloing and that
> soloing is the one end all and be all ! Everyone knows that druids where
> never parked at the dungeon entrance calling for hours for a group !
I've seen EVERY class sit at Sebilis zonein, Velks zonein etc calling LFG.
I've seen CLERICS and ENCHANTERS log off after an hour of being LFG, not to
mention the other classes who encounter it daily
> Ill take solace in knowing that my druid as badly as I play him could take
> that sap encrusted branch you are so proud of and stick it where the sun
> dont shine :p Of course dueling is not real important either ;)
Nope, to be honest the ratio of it kinda sucks for what stage my guild is at
now. If I ever duelled a druid I wouldn't even use a 1hb, I figured
anybody with some experience of EQ would know that.... infact the first
time I ever mentioned my sap was talking to DK, about soloing Sebilis (and
having runner mobs)
With my primal bat (897 undisced damage in 1 round of attacks with a
successful tripple attack) and resists of 120+ in "fighting gear" (ie not
wearing any resist gear what so ever) I don't really think you'd worry me
too much.
Of course talking about killing me in a duel, when were not even on the same
server is pretty retarded, but hey, what more could we expect from mr
"druids NEED cheal" ? :)
-m
sensei grandmaster
prexus
Richard
news:hYu19.9$xq1....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
> "hughes" <hugh...@nospamearthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:F%Q%8.2372$XG5...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > 1)soloing is not really important for any class.
>
> The ability to never have to rely on another class? Yeah right
>
> > 2a)Shamans are at least twice as good at soloing for raw exp
>
> Whilst I don't have a druid, I do have a 60 shaman, and I think you sir,
are
> talking out of your ass
>
Not a 60 shaman here, just 54. I was in The Grey last night soloing near
the ML zone. A 52 druid came in while I was there. In the time that I
soloed one Timeless Golem, and medded back to full, and started on my second
one, the druid finished quadding four and medding back up. Maybe I just
suck at soloing. I was using root and rot. I tried soloing a Shissar, I
could not stick either poison or disease dots on him, after debuffing.
Zoned him. I tried again, and managed to kill him with nukes only, plus
melee at the end. I ended the fight oom, and at 40% health from Canning. I
had Aego up at the time, or I would not have been able to do it. Next time
I'll try using my pet, but, so far at least, against dark blue mobs, it has
worked out to cost me more mana keeping him alive than rooting and rotting.
Mark A. Rimer
news:hYu19.9$xq1....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
they
> all aren't NEEDED in groups.. does that mean my monk can get cheal too, to
> "balance" my class? lol
My rogues don't need CHeal if they can just 'port somewhere to Quad
Assassinate mobs if they get stuck down in the bottom of Chardok
and go LD, only to get back on with the raid gone...
Soloing is NOT the be-all-end-all of the game. However it's EXTREMELY
nice to have the OPPORTUNITY to IF you can't find a pick up group in
some dungeon or if you just have a short time on to play that day.
The ability to solo effectively (extremely better gear on my alt rogue
at 55 than my main had at 55) has made a HUGE difference in the
alt's EQ playing style...killing certain mobs for an hour sure beats
sitting at the zone in in Sebilis away from the 2 see-invis shaman
froggies shouting LFG for an hour...
TwoHead
> Not a 60 shaman here, just 54. I was in The Grey last night soloing near
> the ML zone. A 52 druid came in while I was there. In the time that I
> soloed one Timeless Golem, and medded back to full, and started on my second
> one, the druid finished quadding four and medding back up. Maybe I just
> suck at soloing. I was using root and rot. I tried soloing a Shissar, I
> could not stick either poison or disease dots on him, after debuffing.
> Zoned him. I tried again, and managed to kill him with nukes only, plus
> melee at the end. I ended the fight oom, and at 40% health from Canning. I
> had Aego up at the time, or I would not have been able to do it. Next time
> I'll try using my pet, but, so far at least, against dark blue mobs, it has
> worked out to cost me more mana keeping him alive than rooting and rotting.
>
I had pretty good luck there at 53 or 54 using pet. Pulled with slow
and pet was holding up pretty well against the shissar, though golems
seemed to tear him up pretty fast. Of course I was helping the pet with
damage heh, not like he was soloing.
th
Richard
news:3D46BBDE...@2omar2world2.com...
I have not tried it with a pet in The Grey yet. I'll give it a try on the
Shissar that way. At this level so many of the mobs just hit for too much
damage. I do know, that for the Shissar, that is likely to be the best
approach, given their resistance to my DoTs.
TwoHead
> I have not tried it with a pet in The Grey yet. I'll give it a try on the
> Shissar that way. At this level so many of the mobs just hit for too much
> damage. I do know, that for the Shissar, that is likely to be the best
> approach, given their resistance to my DoTs.
>
Well its the best way if you have to solo anyway <G>. I had my cleric
there with my shaman a few times and that was the best heh. Pull with
slow, send the pet and keep shissar rooted while cleric used his undead
dot to do most of the damage. My biggest problem besides the dang
golems was worrying about the cleric losing EB while shaman was pulling.
th
Richard
Killing enough of the Shissar will fix the EB problem anyway. I already got
my EB amulet that way.
I have only one account, so I'll just have to solo, or bring a group.
TwoHead
> Killing enough of the Shissar will fix the EB problem anyway. I already got
> my EB amulet that way.
Had bad luck on the drops. I hear the organs are not that rare but in
all the killing I've done there I've only found one so far.
>
> I have only one account, so I'll just have to solo, or bring a group.
>
Well another option would be to transfer your shaman to my server and
I'll play my cleric with you <G>. I rarely dual box anymore and my
ability to do so has definitely faded heh. Was trying to play druid and
cleric last night with some friends in a fear kiting group and it took
several kills before I got the hang of which keyboard was for snaring
and which was for fearing <g>.
th
Richard
> Richard wrote:
> > Killing enough of the Shissar will fix the EB problem anyway. I already
got
> > my EB amulet that way.
>
> Had bad luck on the drops. I hear the organs are not that rare but in
> all the killing I've done there I've only found one so far.
Took probably 6 hours of hunting to get 5 of them in a group. I won the
roll to get the first set. We were not pulling the Shissar only, as the
primary purpose was xp. I think it was something on the order of one in 8
dropping it.
>
> >
> > I have only one account, so I'll just have to solo, or bring a group.
> >
>
> Well another option would be to transfer your shaman to my server and
> I'll play my cleric with you <G>. I rarely dual box anymore and my
> ability to do so has definitely faded heh. Was trying to play druid and
> cleric last night with some friends in a fear kiting group and it took
> several kills before I got the hang of which keyboard was for snaring
> and which was for fearing <g>.
>
> th
Nothing personal, but I think I'll try the pet soloing way.
sanjian
> >Still, you must have known that, even if Verant lifted the 10% penalty,
some
> >of your fellow druids would complain that even that's not enough.
>
> This isn't new and doesn't really have anything to do with removing
> the 10% penalty. It's been brewing for awhile now and came to a head
> a few months ago when a bunch of people got together on The Druids
> Grove (I think) and came up with that silly ass Druids petition. You
> might remember the zombie thread it spawned, which was the first time
> myself and Mr. hughes had this discussion. This whole thing is just a
> rehash.
I recall the debate here about it. Hughes tried to explain how a druids
were the worst soloing class in existance. Celano, for her part, just
wanted a small tweak, specifically the removal of the 10% penalty. True to
her word, she seems happy with that. I know Precia will love the removal of
the penalty, since she's mainly a soloing Paladin... now I just have to get
T-boots so I can stand to play her (Tenjou's Selo spoiled me).
> >Maybe
> >Verant should publish a character "concept" guide. It's possible that
they
> >would, for once and for all, dispel the myth that druids and shamen are
> >"main healer" classes.
>
> I think a concept guide would only get Verant in more trouble than it
> would be worth. Any deviation from the 'guide' would call down
> legions of anal-retentive, hyper-obsessive nimrods to bitch and moan
> about how Verant is trying to screw X class because they aren't
> following said guide slavishly.
OTOH, it would force them to come up with some sort of plan, instead of
stabbing in the dark, every time they add something to the game. A little
bit of accountablility for Verant may not be such a bad thing. If they're
worried about being held to the concept guide, then that may be indicative
of a problem on their part, and an inability to focus on a concept.
sanjian
> It just could not be that I regret the waste of time leveling the druid. I
> can not possibly be telling the truth when I mention friends long gone
from
> the druidic ranks and game. Why examine the evidence, when the poll
results
> are already in ! Everyone knows druids are the best at soloing and that
> soloing is the one end all and be all ! Everyone knows that druids where
No, soloing is the main focus for certain players, and it's those players
for which druids, necros, and beastlords were created. Everyone gets to
decide what is most important to them in the game, and then choose their
characters appropriately. The fact that a druid is not appropriate for
someone who wants to raid does not make a druid underpowered. The fact that
a warrior is not the appropriate character for someone who wants to solo
does not make a warrior underpowered. If you want to play a raiding healer,
play a cleric. That's what they're there for.
> never parked at the dungeon entrance calling for hours for a group !
My paladin has gained two yellows in a single day, while trying to find a
group. It happens to everyone.
> Ill take solace in knowing that my druid as badly as I play him could take
> that sap encrusted branch you are so proud of and stick it where the sun
> dont shine :p Of course dueling is not real important either ;)
And I'll take solace that my five year old neice is more mature than you've
shown yourself to be with that statment.
Celaeno
>"Celaeno" <cel...@choklit.nospam.org> wrote in message
>news:3d441ab8...@news.world-online.no...
>> If you had had the faintest clue about how to play a druid in a viable
>> manner, you'd want small tweaks like a faster NT or something. You
>> would not be continually whining about CH.
>
>Still, you must have known that, even if Verant lifted the 10% penalty, some
>of your fellow druids would complain that even that's not enough.
Why shouldn't we want small tweaks (faster NT!) just like every other
class in the game?
>Maybe
>Verant should publish a character "concept" guide. It's possible that they
>would, for once and for all, dispel the myth that druids and shamen are
>"main healer" classes.
There's a huge difference between tweaking druids and turning them
into the clerics in leather Hughes is ranting about.
<inspiration>
Hughes, go make yourself a human or halfling Karana cleric, dress it
in leather armor, give it some sow and gate potions, and you'd be
pretty close to your ideal druid, wouldn't' you?
Celaeno
>> If you had had the faintest clue about how to play a druid in a viable
>> manner, you'd want small tweaks like a faster NT or something. You
>> would not be continually whining about CH.
>
>snicker. If you had the faintest clue about how useless you where going to
>end up as a druid you would lament that I only want to give you a 80% cheal
>clone :p
*shrug* Just because I won't tend to cannitorporing shamans...
Exactly where do you think I have ended up, anyway?
sanjian
> "-Martin" <vil...@cheerfuldot.com> wrote in message
> news:hYu19.9$xq1....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
> > Whats that got to do with anything? Knights, Monks, Rogues, Rangers..
> they
> > all aren't NEEDED in groups.. does that mean my monk can get cheal too,
to
> > "balance" my class? lol
>
> My rogues don't need CHeal if they can just 'port somewhere to Quad
> Assassinate mobs if they get stuck down in the bottom of Chardok
> and go LD, only to get back on with the raid gone...
>
> Soloing is NOT the be-all-end-all of the game. However it's EXTREMELY
Ah, but it IS the be-all-end-all for many players. Specifically, those for
whom druids, necromancers, and beastlords were created.
Mark A. Rimer
news:ByF19.290037$DB.78...@news1.east.cox.net...
Conceeded point.
Again, however, EQ is supposed to be a group game. The only
bad thing is it's not ALWAYS possible to get a group, so the only
option left is to find something else...tradeskills, bazaar, auctions,
or <gasp> soloing for xp. When you can solo efficiently for xp even
though you love grouping, it just adds another dimension to the game.
Without some pretty decent gear, most melee classes cannot
solo _effectively_. Killing one blue mob in 10 minutes is not
effective soloing, while killing 4 blue mobs at once (or one yellow)
every 5-6 minutes is good experience. I ran through 52 in a day
with my alt rogue because she could single pull a room full of
very specific blue-to-her-mobs, fight down to win and heal with
her Mrylo BP back to full to keep up a rate of about 4 mobs every
7 minutes or so...without the Mrylo BP, she'd have had to bandage
up to 70% and then heal up to full just so she wouldn't die fighting
the next blue.
Efficient solo power may not be the most important thing for
a druid player (ne Celaeno <waves>), but even she'll admit that
it's possible if she wanted to do it occasionally. Same with one of
my alt's guildleaders, a necro...he spends 90% of his time raiding
or grouping, but can also just go clear out a dungeon full of blues,
get to the bottom, and gate out when it's time to log for the night.
Heck, if I had some sort of gate item (I was really pissed before
Luclin came out...the GM wouldn't even talk to my main because
he wasn't a wizard...a rogue with that Nexus portal necklace would
be fun ;-) ), I actually would probably spend more time solo
just because the xp is better...it's just too dangerous if things
go wrong.
Sean Kennedy
news:3D46F2DA...@2omar2world2.com:
I'm just learning to dual box now. Because of space constraints,
I run the 2 boxes on an eletronic switch (double tap control to
switch) and I have detached keypads on each so I can do basic
stuff even when I have the keyboard on the other machine. I'm
still getting used to it however, and I think I'll leave the grey
for a little longer.
-Martin
news:Xns925BCC345482...@207.225.159.7...
> I'm just learning to dual box now. Because of space constraints,
> I run the 2 boxes on an eletronic switch (double tap control to
> switch) and I have detached keypads on each so I can do basic
> stuff even when I have the keyboard on the other machine. I'm
> still getting used to it however, and I think I'll leave the grey
> for a little longer.
I've duel boxed a long time now, a few months ago that progressed to
tri-botting (3 chars, 2 computers)
Now I have a new much beefier computer I run the 2 on that (Im sure it can
handle 4 when I buy it more memory) and 1 on the old comp that used to run
2(3 at a push). Its not often that I would need more than 3 characters at
once, and whilst I have got the jist of 3x bots (I can handle 2x prots or
named in Kael arena with none of my chars dieing for example, can use the 3
on a Statue/AoW raid etc).. I doubt I could handle the amount of chars I can
physically run (6 chars at an acceptable performance)
-m
sensei grandmaster
prexus
hughes
> in leather armor, give it some sow and gate potions, and you'd be
> pretty close to your ideal druid, wouldn't' you?
hmmm . My cleric happens to be human :) Erolisi marr though.
Sometime when you are bored try and design a class building system . Then
build all the classes as they are in eq and examine the cost of each. You
could start with a premade system like gurps or rolemaster if you are
feeling lazy. Remeber eq2 is supposed to be a player built system and under
that either cheal will never exist or every healer will have something close
to it. They will have to decide which way it will have to be . Just the
basic math with the present situation is screaming ugh.
sanjian
This isn't Gurps, nor is it EQ2. The characters in EQ are not "built," they
come pre-packaged. The fact that a druid is not an ideal raiding package
does not detract from them, it just means that's not their emphasis.
Celaeno
>Efficient solo power may not be the most important thing for
>a druid player (ne Celaeno <waves>), but even she'll admit that
>it's possible if she wanted to do it occasionally.
You know, that is how I got levels 57-60 :p (funny how eating a death
can instill an intense desire to just grind away)
Celaeno
>> You on the other hand.. well you must suck ass at playing one, to keep
>> crying for all sorts of upgrades. Funny that, I've seen druids widely
>> regarded as one of the easiest classes to play/level (even the creation
>> screen when picking a home city tells you that...)
>>
>> Ah well, I guess the class wasn't really intended for *any* idiot to be
>able
>> to play it. Sorry hughes.
>
>Gee that must be it ! All this time I thought druids where underpowered but
>it must just be my complete inability to play one. It is true that any idiot
>can get to 60 and that is proven daily . Since I have 6 characters above 50
>I must be 6 times the normal level of idiocy ! :)
Your words :p
As far as I am concerned, you are the poster boy for people who were
never ever meant to play druids but did so anyway due to the ease of
getting one to 60 without expending much thought.
sanjian
> "sanjian" <san...@widomaker.com> wrote in message
> Conceeded point.
>
> Again, however, EQ is supposed to be a group game. The only
True, but the option is there for those who don't have time to group.
> bad thing is it's not ALWAYS possible to get a group, so the only
> option left is to find something else...tradeskills, bazaar, auctions,
> or <gasp> soloing for xp. When you can solo efficiently for xp even
> though you love grouping, it just adds another dimension to the game.
And, when you can only play for an hour at a time, it's a big boon.
> Without some pretty decent gear, most melee classes cannot
> solo _effectively_. Killing one blue mob in 10 minutes is not
> effective soloing, while killing 4 blue mobs at once (or one yellow)
> every 5-6 minutes is good experience. I ran through 52 in a day
> with my alt rogue because she could single pull a room full of
> very specific blue-to-her-mobs, fight down to win and heal with
> her Mrylo BP back to full to keep up a rate of about 4 mobs every
> 7 minutes or so...without the Mrylo BP, she'd have had to bandage
> up to 70% and then heal up to full just so she wouldn't die fighting
> the next blue.
>
> Efficient solo power may not be the most important thing for
> a druid player (ne Celaeno <waves>), but even she'll admit that
> it's possible if she wanted to do it occasionally. Same with one of
Celaeno does things with her druid that are outside the norm, just like I
tend to solo my paladin. The thing is, neither of us are asking for drastic
changes in the class, just to fit our playing styles. hughes, OTOH, wants
the druid class to be redefined to fit what he wants to do with them. This
would severely imbalance the druids, and almost make them as powerful as
Bards.
> my alt's guildleaders, a necro...he spends 90% of his time raiding
> or grouping, but can also just go clear out a dungeon full of blues,
> get to the bottom, and gate out when it's time to log for the night.
> Heck, if I had some sort of gate item (I was really pissed before
> Luclin came out...the GM wouldn't even talk to my main because
> he wasn't a wizard...a rogue with that Nexus portal necklace would
Now, that sucks. It's not as if the GMs get off their duffs and do events
very often, and when they do, you're excluded. Bah!
> be fun ;-) ), I actually would probably spend more time solo
> just because the xp is better...it's just too dangerous if things
> go wrong.
Especially for those of us who don't have the option to bind close by.
sanjian
> You will not evade me, "sanjian" <san...@widomaker.com>:
>
> >"Celaeno" <cel...@choklit.nospam.org> wrote in message
> >news:3d441ab8...@news.world-online.no...
>
> >> If you had had the faintest clue about how to play a druid in a viable
> >> manner, you'd want small tweaks like a faster NT or something. You
> >> would not be continually whining about CH.
> >
> >Still, you must have known that, even if Verant lifted the 10% penalty,
some
> >of your fellow druids would complain that even that's not enough.
>
> Why shouldn't we want small tweaks (faster NT!) just like every other
> class in the game?
Didn't say you shouldn't. Only said that you had to know that those who
demanded CH aren't going to be satisfied with a 10% increase.
> >Maybe
> >Verant should publish a character "concept" guide. It's possible that
they
> >would, for once and for all, dispel the myth that druids and shamen are
> >"main healer" classes.
>
> There's a huge difference between tweaking druids and turning them
> into the clerics in leather Hughes is ranting about.
Yes, but it was hughes that I was pointing out.
Celaeno
>"Celaeno" <cel...@choklit.nospam.org> wrote in message
>news:3d46d647...@news.world-online.no...
>> You will not evade me, "sanjian" <san...@widomaker.com>:
>> >Still, you must have known that, even if Verant lifted the 10% penalty,
>some
>> >of your fellow druids would complain that even that's not enough.
>>
>> Why shouldn't we want small tweaks (faster NT!) just like every other
>> class in the game?
>
>Didn't say you shouldn't. Only said that you had to know that those who
>demanded CH aren't going to be satisfied with a 10% increase.
>> There's a huge difference between tweaking druids and turning them
>> into the clerics in leather Hughes is ranting about.
>
>Yes, but it was hughes that I was pointing out.
Well, I don't consider hughes a fellow druid, you know.
hughes
>
>
> Celaeno Duskwalker
> Fier'dal hierophant of Erollisi Marr
Which is perfectly acceptable since I dont consider myself a druid :p
I like my monk and chanter the best. My cleric is probably the most usefull.
sanjian
> You will not evade me, "sanjian" <san...@widomaker.com>:
> >Yes, but it was hughes that I was pointing out.
>
> Well, I don't consider hughes a fellow druid, you know.
Ah, that explains the dissonannce.
Celaeno
>> Well, I don't consider hughes a fellow druid, you know.
>>
>>
>> Celaeno Duskwalker
>> Fier'dal hierophant of Erollisi Marr
>
>Which is perfectly acceptable since I dont consider myself a druid :p
So stop posting about what you think druids want.
hughes
>
> So stop posting about what you think druids want.
>
>
> Celaeno Duskwalker
> Fier'dal hierophant of Erollisi Ma
I could care less about what they want. Matter of fact many of them
specificaly have said they want no part of healing whatsoever.
I however will continue to advocate what they need :p
-Martin
> I could care less about what they want. Matter of fact many of them
> specificaly have said they want no part of healing whatsoever.
>
> I however will continue to advocate what they need :p
no, your just an argumentitive little sod.
-m
Brian Hance
wrote:
>"hughes" <hugh...@nospamearthlink.net> wrote:
>> I could care less about what they want. Matter of fact many of them
>> specificaly have said they want no part of healing whatsoever.
>> I however will continue to advocate what they need :p
>no, your just an argumentitive little sod.
In all fairness, this describes well over 90% of Usenet participants.
--
Brian Hance
---------------------------------------------------------------------
"I don't mind if you don't like my manners. I don't like them myself.
They're pretty bad. I grieve over them on long winter evenings."
Humphrey Bogart from THE BIG SLEEP
Ben wilson
<bha...@net-prophet.com> writes
>>no, your just an argumentitive little sod.
>
>In all fairness, this describes well over 90% of Usenet participants.
No it doesn't!!!
(sorry, couldn't resist)
--
***********************
* Demorgoth Demonia *
* MT for a flawless AoW kill *
*Tanker of Ventani the Warder*
* L60 Warlord [Ogre] *
* <Dark Horizon> Officer *
* Zebuxoruk Server *
**********************
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=123069
-Martin
news:95Ny1RAj...@armoury1.demon.co.uk...
> >
> >In all fairness, this describes well over 90% of Usenet participants.
>
> No it doesn't!!!
stfu yes it does!!!!
:)
-m
Celaeno
>> >Which is perfectly acceptable since I dont consider myself a druid :p
>>
>> So stop posting about what you think druids want.
>I could care less about what they want. Matter of fact many of them
>specificaly have said they want no part of healing whatsoever.
>
>I however will continue to advocate what they need :p
You wouldn't know what druids need if it jumped up and bit you in the
ass. As long as you persist in claiming druids should be clerics, I
will persist in bashing you.
Not that it's really necessary to make you look ridiculous, of course;
you manage that pretty well all on your own.
Celaeno Duskwalker
Fier'dal hierophant of Erollisi Marr
Celaeno
>I was making it clearer what you meant, cel had missunderstood it. Remember
>not everybody lives in a country that has a native language of English
Actually, it is my mother tongue (lived in Aus. till I was 5), and IMO
I write it better most people actually living in English-speaking
countries. It's just that sometimes you don't look too closely at a
sentence and accidentally miss a word or part of a word.
-Martin
> I write it better most people actually living in English-speaking
better than?
sorry, couldn't resist :)
-m
Celaeno
>"Celaeno" <cel...@choklit.nospam.org> wrote in message
>news:3d551625...@news.world-online.no...
>> You will not evade me, "-Martin" <vil...@cheerfuldot.com>:
>> Actually, it is my mother tongue (lived in Aus. till I was 5), and IMO
>> I write it better most people actually living in English-speaking
> ^^^
>
>better than?
>
>sorry, couldn't resist :)
I also wroship Tyope, you knwo.
-Martin
> You will not evade me, "-Martin" <vil...@cheerfuldot.com>:
>
> >"Celaeno" <cel...@choklit.nospam.org> wrote in message
> >news:3d551625...@news.world-online.no...
> >> You will not evade me, "-Martin" <vil...@cheerfuldot.com>:
> >> Actually, it is my mother tongue (lived in Aus. till I was 5), and IMO
> >> I write it better most people actually living in English-speaking
> > ^^^
> >
> >better than?
> >
> >sorry, couldn't resist :)
>
> I also wroship Tyope, you knwo.
me two!