FA/Other Sword
Mitch Chrapla
I don't really want a huge spoiler or anything, but it would be nice to
know, Is there a sword of similar of equivalent power to the Fiery Avenger
for Rangers? If so has anyone found it?
Cold Fire
But for a LONG time Paladins have had better weapons, 1 hand slashing that
was, OK fine they have better 1HS we have better 2H Slash, but not so any
more, nooo now along comes the FA 33/44 with 110 point proc!
I mean sure make it as hard to aquire, but give us something as well!
And what about Shadow Knights!?
Mitch Chrapla <compu...@speedchoice.com> wrote in message
news:sd81ohn...@corp.supernews.com...
NBarnes
> How bout warriors?? We are suposed to me the masters of armed
> melee combat! But for a LONG time Paladins have had better
> weapons, 1 hand slashing that was, OK fine they have better 1HS
> we have better 2H Slash, but not so any more, nooo now along comes
> the FA 33/44 with 110 point proc!
>
> I mean sure make it as hard to aquire, but give us something as
> well!
>
> And what about Shadow Knights!?
FA's not actually quite as good as Soul Leech, IMHO. Certainly,
it's much worse than a SDClaws/Bloodfire combo and, frankly, worse
than a ranger's SDClaws/Brairzephyr combo.
NBarnes
Trickle
>Gordon
>
>I don't really want a huge spoiler or anything, but it would be nice to
>know, Is there a sword of similar of equivalent power to the Fiery Avenger
>for Rangers? If so has anyone found it?
Go to Surefall and talk to the Druid leader, asking her "who is
antonius bayle" to find out about 'The most powerful ranger who ever
lived and his long range scouting division'.
Go talk to Captain Tilian aswell (and probably a hell of alot of other
people too). Then go do the 4th island in POS etc and find some God
auful random NPC to spawn after timing your mates back on the ground
floor to ask the right NPC to get it to spawn after pumping them with
20K plat.
Then come back after you've done all that and tell us how you got on
eh?
Gray Eagle
grin-
..(as pointed out to me by an SK) .. and I'm sure every class will want some
kind of Uber Weapon
(ya .. like Wizards .. an Uber Pocket Knife of Scratching! .. that Flames!)
-GE
Bob of Silence
<gray...@diespammer.earthlink.net> wrote:
>You know .. there should be it's opposite for the Shadow Knights ..-evil
>grin-
>
I don't see what the problem would be with that at all... In fact, I
think that would be excellent... They would have to make a quest just
as involved as FA, though... I could picture it... A flaming sword
with Green or Purple flames rising off or it... Or a Seering Blade
which eternally smokes and has a fire based proc attached... I still
say they should have made FA a blue flame blade though, so that it
looked a bit different that Soulfire...
AirScreem
>>grin-
>>
>
>I don't see what the problem would be with that at all... In fact, I
>think that would be excellent... They would have to make a quest just
>as involved as FA, though... I could picture it... A flaming sword
>with Green or Purple flames rising off or it... Or a Seering Blade
>which eternally smokes and has a fire based proc attached... I still
>say they should have made FA a blue flame blade though, so that it
>looked a bit different that Soulfire...
>
>
>
>
>
>
I think it should be some weapon that is blue-ish..or maybe they could get off
their arses and make a blue flame-like animation... y'know, an Icey Murderer or
something...
And either way, soul fire or FA, it still gets a lot of attention.....
[ Oh, and anyone on Xegony in W. Freeport last night? Major Lucan battleplan by
a major guild....gotta be the next to get that weapon, eh? ]
Kendrick A Gold
> I think it should be some weapon that is blue-ish..or maybe they could get off
> their arses and make a blue flame-like animation... y'know, an Icey Murderer or
> something...
You know, they could go the easy way and reuse the torch code to
produce a smoking sword, which procs a high level necro darkness
spell (I forget if the high level ones dot). =)
Billy Shields
: Cold Fire wrote:
If magic number theory is correct and accurate at 50 then for primary
hand a revultant whip is actually slighter better than the SDClaw
I think.
NBarnes
> NBarnes <nba...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> : FA's not actually quite as good as Soul Leech, IMHO. Certainly,
> : it's much worse than a SDClaws/Bloodfire combo and, frankly,
> : worse than a ranger's SDClaws/Brairzephyr combo.
> If magic number theory is correct and accurate at 50 then for primary
> hand a revultant whip is actually slighter better than the SDClaw
> I think.
Huh? My math gives the edge to the SDClaws. The Revultant's
damage rating is just too low. Magic number bonus is 8 points at
50th (i.e. your magic number is (weapondamage * 2) + 8 at 50th),
so the SDClaws are doing 28 points of damage at a delay of 21, and
the whip is doing 18 at a delay of 14.... Briarzephyr is doing 26
at a delay of 19, too, so it's actually better than either.
NBarnes
Billy Shields
Er woops, yeah you're right. My maths is screwed.
Still the gap isn't that large and I just drool when I think about
a *14* delay.
Interruptus Maximus.
Billy Shields
:> : FA's not actually quite as good as Soul Leech, IMHO. Certainly,
:> : it's much worse than a SDClaws/Bloodfire combo and, frankly,
:> : worse than a ranger's SDClaws/Brairzephyr combo.
:> If magic number theory is correct and accurate at 50 then for primary
:> hand a revultant whip is actually slighter better than the SDClaw
:> I think.
: Huh? My math gives the edge to the SDClaws. The Revultant's
: damage rating is just too low. Magic number bonus is 8 points at
: 50th (i.e. your magic number is (weapondamage * 2) + 8 at 50th),
: so the SDClaws are doing 28 points of damage at a delay of 21, and
: the whip is doing 18 at a delay of 14.... Briarzephyr is doing 26
: at a delay of 19, too, so it's actually better than either.
I'm trying to figure out if the weapons that proc DDs (eg Ykesha
and Fluxbladed Axe) are actually worth it or not.
So, lets look at it. I'll make the following assumptions:
1. At level 50 the magic number for a primary hand weapon is
2*damage +8.
2. Average damage is 80% of max damage.
3. The tank in question has 200 double attack which equates to
getting a double attack about 50% of the time. And thus every
2*delay you get 3 attacks.
Weapons:
Spined Dragon Claw: 10/21
Briarzephyr: 9/19
Ykesha: 8/24 + 75 DD (is that correct?)
Fluxbladed Axe: 7/22 + 150 DD
Average damage per second ignoring procs:
Spined Dragon Claw: 16/second
Briarzephyr: 16.42/second
Ykesha: 15/second
Fluxbladed Axe: 15/second
So lets assume that the probability p of procing applies to every
attack (ie you'd get 2 checks when you double attack) and it does
the full damage listed above every time.
Attacks/second (denoted as r):
Ykesha: 0.625
Fluxbladed Axe: 0.682
So basically we have to solve:
15 + rpd > 16.42
where:
r = attacks per second
p = probability of a proc
d = damage of that proc
yielding:
Ykesha: 15 + 0.625 * p * 75 > 16.42
46.875p > 1.42
p > 3.03%
Fluxbladed Axe: 15 + 0.682 * p * 150 > 16.42
102.3p > 1.42
p > 1.39%
So basically if the proc of each goes off on that percentage of
attacks or more then these weapons are better than a Briarzephyr.
So has anyone managed to work out (based on log evidence) what
the proc percentages (at given levels of dex) for each of these
weapons is?
I'm willing to believe that the axe goes off at least 1.39% of
the time. I don't think the Ykesha will go off that often though.
Of course the Mistwalker is much harder to compute but it looks
to me like the Axe might be a better weapon than the Briarzephyr.
NBarnes
> Ykesha: 15 + 0.625 * p * 75 > 16.42
> 46.875p > 1.42
> p > 3.03%
>
> Fluxbladed Axe: 15 + 0.682 * p * 150 > 16.42
> 102.3p > 1.42
> p > 1.39%
>
> So basically if the proc of each goes off on that percentage of
> attacks or more then these weapons are better than a Briarzephyr.
> So has anyone managed to work out (based on log evidence) what
> the proc percentages (at given levels of dex) for each of these
> weapons is?
>
> I'm willing to believe that the axe goes off at least 1.39% of
> the time. I don't think the Ykesha will go off that often though.
>
> Of course the Mistwalker is much harder to compute but it looks
> to me like the Axe might be a better weapon than the Briarzephyr.
The problem is resists. The percentage needed to beat out
Briarzephyr goes up depending on how resistant the mob is. And
many tough mobs resist like crazy. At one extreme, the Fluxbladed
is worse than a silly EBW against a Spite Golem, for example, and
Clerics of Innoruuk and Scorn Banshees (both highly magic resistant)
will very likely make the Fluxbladed worse than a Revultant Whip or
SDClaws, let along the mincing machine known as Briarzephyr.
On the other hand, the Fluxbladed's proc will interrupt casting, so
there's value added there.
To be sure, I envy the ranger who's in the position of having
to choose between a Fluxbladed, SDClaws, Briarzephyr, and a
Revultant.
NBarnes
Billy Shields
: Billy Shields wrote:
I'd be very interested in seeing some stats on how DDs stack up
(in terms of average resists and damage per proc) against various
creatures.
Of course against greens or blues the Fluxbladed Axe becomes a
bit of a god weapon (depending on proc percentages).
: To be sure, I envy the ranger who's in the position of having
: to choose between a Fluxbladed, SDClaws, Briarzephyr, and a
: Revultant.
Don't forget the Mistwalker *drool*.
Rangers do have a nice choice of weapons. interestingly the rogue
seems to get a bit ripped off in the planes. 10/24 (Eyerazzia) and
10/22 (Bone Razor) don't quite compare with the ranger weapons
really do they?
NBarnes
> NBarnes:
> : To be sure, I envy the ranger who's in the position of having
> : to choose between a Fluxbladed, SDClaws, Briarzephyr, and a
> : Revultant.
> Don't forget the Mistwalker *drool*.
>
> Rangers do have a nice choice of weapons. interestingly the rogue
> seems to get a bit ripped off in the planes. 10/24 (Eyerazzia) and
> 10/22 (Bone Razor) don't quite compare with the ranger weapons
> really do they?
Rogues have can get Vexthorne, 9/19, off Innoruuk. Kinda boring,
but certainly effective, especially if they item juggle in a
Crystalline Spear (13/30 off Vox) for backstabs.
NBarnes
Mr Foo Bar
I'm sure using a spreadsheet single player would be cheaper than playing EQ
and presumably more exciting ;-)
Billy Shields <ran...@opera.iinet.net.au> wrote in message
news:38d5c445$0$18...@motown.iinet.net.au...
> NBarnes <nba...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> : Billy Shields wrote:
NBarnes
> God and people wonder why Verant wont give out full details on
> stats ;-)
>
> I'm sure using a spreadsheet single player would be cheaper than
> playing EQ and presumably more exciting ;-)
*shrug* If I trusted Verant to internally balance their game,
then I wouldn't worry so much. But since Verant provably couldn't
design their way out of a paper sack, such analysis's become much
more important.
It's interesting to me that the Fluxbladed Axe, which is
basically a ranger's door prize for showing up in Fear, seems to
be superior to the _much_ harder to get SDClaws or Briarzephyr.
A typical example of Verant-style design work, and one of the
reasons that such analysis are needed.
NBarnes
Billy Shields
:> : To be sure, I envy the ranger who's in the position of having
Which is only as good as Briarzephyr. So at best they get as good
as rangers but rangers have non-God better alternatives.
Billy Shields
: Mr Foo Bar wrote:
Couldn't have said it myself.
The real problem here is that Verant have lost all credibility.
You can look at many of their statements and see that they end up
being true in a given set of circumstances (which I'm sure they
believe are the norm) rather than true as they appear to be.
For example, Gordon stated that pets should take about 1% of exp
in a group and they share exp when soloing. It turns out (courtesy
of the ShowEQ people and other testing) that solo pets take half exp
if they deal more damage and there is a similar caveat with pets
in groups.
You can always tell when the public doesn't trust what they're
hearing. They start analysing exactly what was said looking for
misleading semantics. The same aura of mistrust that surrounded
the Nixon administration in the early 70s and the Clinton
administration in the late 90s also surrounds Verant.
Their public statements and published information has been
discredited many times and now they're paying the price--the
playing public is going to extra lengths to unveil such
deceptions.
Dan Bongard
> It's interesting to me that the Fluxbladed Axe, which is
> basically a ranger's door prize for showing up in Fear,
> seems to be superior to the _much_ harder to get SDClaws
> or Briarzephyr.
The Fluxbladed Axe is lore. So is the Briarzephyr. What does it
matter which one is better? You'll end up getting both of them,
unless you are one of the 3 rangers in all of EQ who doesn't
dual-wield. :)
That aside: the FbA is 7/22 and procs a 150-damage DD spell.
The Briarzephyr is 9/19. The FbA (assuming max damage from
the DD) is only superior if it procs every 20 swings or
so; I have no idea if that is the case.
Another question: what would happen if the Fluxbladed Axe
and Briarzephyr were switched? Answer: rangers would whine,
whine, whine, and whine that their class had been "nerfed"
and Verant was "obviously trying to keep them from reaching
50th".
> A typical example of Verant-style design work, and one
> of the reasons that such analysis are needed.
Can you give even a single reason why an item's power has to
be exactly proportional to how hard the item is to get?
-- Dan
NBarnes
> NBarnes <nba...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> : Rogues have can get Vexthorne, 9/19, off Innoruuk. Kinda boring,
> : but certainly effective, especially if they item juggle in a
> : Crystalline Spear (13/30 off Vox) for backstabs.
> Which is only as good as Briarzephyr. So at best they get as good
> as rangers but rangers have non-God better alternatives.
Well, yeah, but I think that that's just because the Fluxbladed
is amazing. And it's worse than the pre-nerf Mistwalker, but the
pre-nerf Mistwalker was also amazing. Ignoring those little bits of
misdesign, Vexthorne is fine.
NBarnes
Billy Shields
: NBarnes <nba...@earthlink.net> wrote:
:> It's interesting to me that the Fluxbladed Axe, which is
:> basically a ranger's door prize for showing up in Fear,
:> seems to be superior to the _much_ harder to get SDClaws
:> or Briarzephyr.
: The Fluxbladed Axe is lore. So is the Briarzephyr. What does it
: matter which one is better? You'll end up getting both of them,
: unless you are one of the 3 rangers in all of EQ who doesn't
: dual-wield. :)
But two handed weapons are so worthwhile and have such high
damage... I don't understand.
</sarcasm>
: That aside: the FbA is 7/22 and procs a 150-damage DD spell.
: The Briarzephyr is 9/19. The FbA (assuming max damage from
: the DD) is only superior if it procs every 20 swings or
: so; I have no idea if that is the case.
Actually read my post on this same thread as this. From my
calculation the FbA only has to proc about 1.5% of the time to
be superior. The percentage required goes up as resists go
up.
: Another question: what would happen if the Fluxbladed Axe
: and Briarzephyr were switched? Answer: rangers would whine,
: whine, whine, and whine that their class had been "nerfed"
: and Verant was "obviously trying to keep them from reaching
: 50th".
Odd considering most rangers are 50 (or very close to it) before
they even have a shot at these weapons.
:> A typical example of Verant-style design work, and one
:> of the reasons that such analysis are needed.
: Can you give even a single reason why an item's power has to
: be exactly proportional to how hard the item is to get?
Because effort should equate to reward. If it doesn't then you'll
simply end up with parts of the game that aren't used. If you
want to take people away from LGuk/SolB the new zones have to be
in the same league (in terms of effort and reward) or they simply
won't be used. Look at Kedge as a prime example.
NBarnes
> NBarnes <nba...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > It's interesting to me that the Fluxbladed Axe, which is
> > basically a ranger's door prize for showing up in Fear,
> > seems to be superior to the _much_ harder to get SDClaws
> > or Briarzephyr.
> The Fluxbladed Axe is lore. So is the Briarzephyr. What does it
> matter which one is better? You'll end up getting both of them,
> unless you are one of the 3 rangers in all of EQ who doesn't
> dual-wield. :)
>
> That aside: the FbA is 7/22 and procs a 150-damage DD spell.
> The Briarzephyr is 9/19. The FbA (assuming max damage from
> the DD) is only superior if it procs every 20 swings or
> so; I have no idea if that is the case.
>
> Another question: what would happen if the Fluxbladed Axe
> and Briarzephyr were switched? Answer: rangers would whine,
> whine, whine, and whine that their class had been "nerfed"
> and Verant was "obviously trying to keep them from reaching
> 50th".
On the subject of the Fluxbladed being better than Briarzephyr,
I refer you to Shields' _excellent_ analysis earlier in this
thread. It does appear that the Fluxbladed, at least against
mobs that are unlikely to resist, is superior to Briarzephyr in
terms of damage output (and the Fluxbladed's proc interrupts
casting, adding value).
And everybody whines when Verant changes something. If I were
McQuaid, I wouldn't let it keep me up nights.
> > A typical example of Verant-style design work, and one
> > of the reasons that such analysis are needed.
> Can you give even a single reason why an item's power has to
> be exactly proportional to how hard the item is to get?
Um... game balance? What's the reward for putting forth the
effort to kill Innoruuk if you can get a better weapon _much_
more easily?
NBarnes
Alasdair Allan
> Gordon
>
> I don't really want a huge spoiler or anything, but it would be nice to
> know, Is there a sword of similar of equivalent power to the Fiery Avenger
> for Rangers? If so has anyone found it?
Take your pick.
Most Ranger Planar weapons will be more powerful than the Fiery Avenger
because they are used in tandem.
And of course the work and time to get any Ranger weapon is a tiny fraction
of that required to get the Fiery Avenger.
If you are not familiar with Magic Number theory go read it on any message
board or Deja News. Here are the comparisons of some weapons :-
Weapon Damage Delay Magic Num Damage/sec
Fiery Avenger 33 44 74 16.8
Sunderfury 25 36 58 16.1
Beckon 30 42 68 16.2
Looks good for the Fiery so far against these warrior and Shadowknight
2handers. Of course Warriors and Shadowknights can be Large Race so they
can still Bash and they always have Kick. Generally Kick is a 10/70 weapon
or 2.85 damage/second.
Lets look at those Ranger weapons :-
Briarzephyr 9 19 26 13.7
Revulant Whip 5 14 18 12.9
Fluxblade 7 22 22 10.0
But, of course, these Ranger weapons are one handed. The Ranger can use two
of them, together. The secondary weapon loses its Magic Number bonus,
however, and Dual Wield only works 41.6% of the time. However :-
Paladin with Fiery Avenger 16.8 damage/sec
Ranger with Rev Whip+Briar 16.9 damage/sec (Whip primary)
Ranger with Briar+Flux Axe 16.3 damage/sec (Briar primary)
Remember the Ranger Retains Kick for extra damage and Kick alone will
outdamage the Fiery Avengers Process.
*ALSO*, and this is the *fucking killer*. Because of the way Weapon
Processes work, sticking the Fluxblade Axe in your offhand (150 DD) should
get *much* more processes than a Paladin with a Fiery Avenger. Because a
Process check is made whenever *either* hand hits. So the Ranger gets
roughly 5 times the *chances* to Process over a Paladin!
So yes, Fiery Averanger looks good on paper. But this is no Pen and Paper
RPG, and in reality it is a good Planar weapon *nothing* more and *no
reward* whatsoever for the utterly ridiculous amount of work involved in
attaining it.
--
Alasdair Allan, Ibrox, Glasgow |England - Country where Marx developed
x-st...@null.net | the basis of Communism
X-Static's Rangers Webzine |Scotland - Country where Smith developed
http://www.x-static.demon.co.uk/ | the basis of Capitalism
Trickle
>If magic number theory is correct and accurate at 50 then for primary
>hand a revultant whip is actually slighter better than the SDClaw
>I think.
>
Primary hand...
Whip = 18/1.4 = 12.8
Claws = 28/2.1 = 13.3
Briar = 26/19 = 13.7 Only Bloodfire would beat this as a primary
weapon imho. Rogues get some nice God weapons too.
Note for weapon comparrisons without procs, I don't need to involve DA
and probabilities of hitting for 'magic' (as you have done elsewhere
in this thread) as these factors affect all equally, thereby canceling
out. The only possible differential might be haste limits on them.
2ndary hand...
Claws = 20/2.1 = Outstanding
Briar = 18/1.9 = only slightly less so than claws.
Bloodfire = 22/2.4 lower still - but with decent proc
Whip = 10/1.4 = lower than both the top 3 by far
Amy Tendril 18/2.5 = marginaly better than the whip here but far worse
as a primary hand weapon.
Fluxy = 14/2.2 = lower than a wakie/yakie so the value of the weapon
hinges totally on its proc rate + resist rate + taunt factor.
Imho Verant absolutely has to stop the level damage bonus at 50+ or
totally destroy the current balance of planes level 2 handers. Though
skill caps are being increased - so too will mobs defence skills. I
would gess Verant are going to be 'balancing' out mele classes for
post 50 by assuming 50+ chars will have planes quality weapons for
increases in damage rather than the level bonuses. Not just 2HS
either, this affects 1HS weapons like the Fluxy or Bard 11/25's
aswell. Though as AA says, not many of us has great faith in the
programmers they have drafted in to replace the ones who were
originally on the job.
NBarnes
> Billy Shields <ran...@opera.iinet.net.au> wrote:
> 2ndary hand...
>
> Claws = 20/2.1 = Outstanding
> Briar = 18/1.9 = only slightly less so than claws.
> Bloodfire = 22/2.4 lower still - but with decent proc
> Whip = 10/1.4 = lower than both the top 3 by far
> Amy Tendril 18/2.5 = marginaly better than the whip here but far
> worse as a primary hand weapon.
> Fluxy = 14/2.2 = lower than a wakie/yakie so the value of the
> weapon hinges totally on its proc rate + resist rate + taunt factor.
You can't put SDClaws into the off-hand, just like you can't
put BTClaws there.
The combo you really want is Briairzephyr in the main hand (it's
amazing), and the Fluxbladed in the off-hand for procs. That's
just nuts.
NBarnes
NBarnes
> *ALSO*, and this is the *fucking killer*. Because of the way
> Weapon Processes work, sticking the Fluxblade Axe in your offhand
> (150 DD) should get *much* more processes than a Paladin with a
> Fiery Avenger. Because a Process check is made whenever *either*
> hand hits. So the Ranger gets roughly 5 times the *chances* to
> Process over a Paladin!
*blink* Cite? If this is true... well, I can't say that it's
insanity on a scale hitherto fore unheard of in EQ, since there's
some pretty insane stuff, but... it's up there. Certainly, it
would make the Fluxbladed the _ultimate_ off-hand weapon.
Briarzephyr/Fluxbladed = mean, mean ranger. That combo might
actually outdamage SDClaws/Bloodfire, if Alasdair's right (which
he usually is), which is kinda sick.
NBarnes
Billy Shields
: Alasdair Allan wrote:
I'm somewhat skeptical. I've played a warrior who had a proccing
weapon (PGT) in one hand a piercing weapon (Dragoon Dirk) in the
other and I *never* saw the PGT go off except on hits with it.
The hits with the dirk would've been entirely obvious.
But as far as ranger weapons go I still prefer to put the Mistwalker
in there somewhere (even post-nerf). Mistwalker and FBA against
blues or Briarzephyr against yellows/reds perhaps?
Billy Shields
I just wrote up a quick spreadsheet that calculates average damage
based on level, double attack and offhand attack percentages, proc
percentages and average proc damages (on a per-proc basis). It
seems to indicate that even including the big proc on the FBA the
proc percentage would have to be pretty large (like 2-3% based on
no resists) to match an offhand Mistwalker _even before you factor
in the Mistwalker's proc_.
I'm going to modify it a bit so you can enter the stats for three
weapons and it'll give all 6 combinations and list the average
damage for each ordered combination.
I stand by my assertion that the ultimate combination is a
Briarzephyr and a Mistwalker (if thats possible; I'm not even
sure the Mistwalker can go in the offhand). Especially considering
that the Mistwalker proc results in *melee* damage so you don't
have the same resist problem you normally would.
Alasdair Allan
> NBarnes <nba...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> : *blink* Cite? If this is true... well, I can't say that it's
> : insanity on a scale hitherto fore unheard of in EQ, since there's
> : some pretty insane stuff, but... it's up there. Certainly, it
> : would make the Fluxbladed the _ultimate_ off-hand weapon.
> : Briarzephyr/Fluxbladed = mean, mean ranger. That combo might
> : actually outdamage SDClaws/Bloodfire, if Alasdair's right (which
> : he usually is), which is kinda sick.
>
> I'm somewhat skeptical. I've played a warrior who had a proccing
> weapon (PGT) in one hand a piercing weapon (Dragoon Dirk) in the
> other and I *never* saw the PGT go off except on hits with it.
> The hits with the dirk would've been entirely obvious.
Thats how I discovered it. SBD primary hand ("Your will is not sufficient")
and PGT in the offhand. PGT procs often when there is no slashing hit.
What level were you when you got the PGT? I had a PGT at level 13 (when I
got dual wield) so the skill was still low enough that slash hits were
*very* noticeable - and the procs weren't linked.
Alasdair Allan
> Alasdair Allan wrote:
>
> > *ALSO*, and this is the *fucking killer*. Because of the way
> > Weapon Processes work, sticking the Fluxblade Axe in your offhand
> > (150 DD) should get *much* more processes than a Paladin with a
> > Fiery Avenger. Because a Process check is made whenever *either*
> > hand hits. So the Ranger gets roughly 5 times the *chances* to
> > Process over a Paladin!
>
> insanity on a scale hitherto fore unheard of in EQ, since there's
> some pretty insane stuff, but... it's up there. Certainly, it
> would make the Fluxbladed the _ultimate_ off-hand weapon.
> Briarzephyr/Fluxbladed = mean, mean ranger. That combo might
> actually outdamage SDClaws/Bloodfire, if Alasdair's right (which
> he usually is), which is kinda sick.
Experience. I had a PGT at level 13 when I got Dual Wield and it was very
noticeable that while the PGT procced regularly (excellent low level weapon)
there was no relationship to my actually making a slashing swing!
Adar
Alasdair Allan <posth...@x-static.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:01bf93e9$f906d1e0$cd0201c0@dell40...> > : *blink* Cite? If this is true... well, I can't say that it's
> > : insanity on a scale hitherto fore unheard of in EQ, since there's
> > : some pretty insane stuff, but... it's up there. Certainly, it
> > : would make the Fluxbladed the _ultimate_ off-hand weapon.
> > : Briarzephyr/Fluxbladed = mean, mean ranger. That combo might
> > : actually outdamage SDClaws/Bloodfire, if Alasdair's right (which
> > : he usually is), which is kinda sick.
> >
> > weapon (PGT) in one hand a piercing weapon (Dragoon Dirk) in the
> > other and I *never* saw the PGT go off except on hits with it.
> > The hits with the dirk would've been entirely obvious.
>
> Thats how I discovered it. SBD primary hand ("Your will is not
sufficient")
> and PGT in the offhand. PGT procs often when there is no slashing hit.
> What level were you when you got the PGT? I had a PGT at level 13 (when I
> got dual wield) so the skill was still low enough that slash hits were
> *very* noticeable - and the procs weren't linked.
I can now confirm this.
Until yesterday, I was wielding a Yak in my primary hand and a Bullsmasher
in the offhand; two or three times, I had to wonder why a mob died by a yak
proc before the slashing hit, but figured the proc went before the hit.
When I saw this post, I looked harder, and sure enough, the 20 delay
Bullsmasher, when used in the primary hand, greatly increases the number of
Yak procs.
Sigh...
Brudo (E'ci)
Loredaeron (E'ci)
NBarnes
> I can now confirm this.
>
> Until yesterday, I was wielding a Yak in my primary hand and a
> Bullsmasher in the offhand; two or three times, I had to wonder
> why a mob died by a yak proc before the slashing hit, but
> figured the proc went before the hit.
>
> When I saw this post, I looked harder, and sure enough, the 20
> delay Bullsmasher, when used in the primary hand, greatly
> increases the number of Yak procs.
>
> Sigh...
*rolls eyes*
EQ was obviously coded by a seriously sub-infinite number of
monkeys banging on a highly sub-infinite number of keyboards.
Go Briarzephyr/Fluxbladed!
NBarnes
John Henders
>Thats how I discovered it. SBD primary hand ("Your will is not sufficient")
>and PGT in the offhand. PGT procs often when there is no slashing hit.
>What level were you when you got the PGT? I had a PGT at level 13 (when I
>got dual wield) so the skill was still low enough that slash hits were
>*very* noticeable - and the procs weren't linked.
Have you got your misses turned off? Weapons can proc on a miss you
know. My bard used an Obsidian shard for quite a while in the off hand
and I don't think I ever saw this effect without an associated miss from
the shard.
--
Artificial Intelligence stands no chance against Natural Stupidity.
GAT d- -p+(--) c++++ l++ u++ t- m--- W--- !v
b+++ e* s-/+ n-(?) h++ f+g+ w+++ y*
Billy Shields
: Billy Shields <ran...@opera.iinet.net.au> wrote
:> NBarnes <nba...@earthlink.net> wrote:
:> : *blink* Cite? If this is true... well, I can't say that it's
:> : insanity on a scale hitherto fore unheard of in EQ, since there's
:> : some pretty insane stuff, but... it's up there. Certainly, it
:> : would make the Fluxbladed the _ultimate_ off-hand weapon.
:> : Briarzephyr/Fluxbladed = mean, mean ranger. That combo might
:> : actually outdamage SDClaws/Bloodfire, if Alasdair's right (which
:> : he usually is), which is kinda sick.
:>
:> I'm somewhat skeptical. I've played a warrior who had a proccing
:> weapon (PGT) in one hand a piercing weapon (Dragoon Dirk) in the
:> other and I *never* saw the PGT go off except on hits with it.
:> The hits with the dirk would've been entirely obvious.
: Thats how I discovered it. SBD primary hand ("Your will is not sufficient")
: and PGT in the offhand. PGT procs often when there is no slashing hit.
: What level were you when you got the PGT? I had a PGT at level 13 (when I
: got dual wield) so the skill was still low enough that slash hits were
: *very* noticeable - and the procs weren't linked.
My troll warrior had the PGT from 10 on up (I stopped playing him
at 21). I used the dirk for a level (at about 14) to train
piercing but decided it was a waste of time.
The proc does go off before the hit itself. You're not confusing
that with it procing from another attack are you?
Anyway I have a 13th level ranger. This weekend I'm going to run
some tests on the PGT/dirk combo and confirm this one way or the
other.
If this is true then its utterly stupid and should be changed.
I'm going to need a good log parser. Any suggestions? URLs too
please.
Billy Shields
: NBarnes <nba...@earthlink.net> wrote
:> Alasdair Allan wrote:
:>
:> > *ALSO*, and this is the *fucking killer*. Because of the way
:> > Weapon Processes work, sticking the Fluxblade Axe in your offhand
:> > (150 DD) should get *much* more processes than a Paladin with a
:> > Fiery Avenger. Because a Process check is made whenever *either*
:> > hand hits. So the Ranger gets roughly 5 times the *chances* to
:> > Process over a Paladin!
:> *blink* Cite? If this is true... well, I can't say that it's
:> insanity on a scale hitherto fore unheard of in EQ, since there's
:> some pretty insane stuff, but... it's up there. Certainly, it
:> would make the Fluxbladed the _ultimate_ off-hand weapon.
:> Briarzephyr/Fluxbladed = mean, mean ranger. That combo might
:> actually outdamage SDClaws/Bloodfire, if Alasdair's right (which
:> he usually is), which is kinda sick.
: Experience. I had a PGT at level 13 when I got Dual Wield and it was very
: noticeable that while the PGT procced regularly (excellent low level weapon)
: there was no relationship to my actually making a slashing swing!
I remain skeptical but I can see a hole in my experience with this
weapon: I usually used it in my offhand because I liked using my
demonclaw and its primary hand only. I'm going to try various
combinations this weekend.
Steven H
>Experience. I had a PGT at level 13 when I got Dual Wield and it was very
>noticeable that while the PGT procced regularly (excellent low level weapon)
>there was no relationship to my actually making a slashing swing!
ive just recently level up a rogue to 13 and he too is a barb rogue,
and at lvl 13 he has an SBD and pgt (in offhand).
Embaressinlgly i neglected my 1hs so had no skill in 1hs and my duel
wield skill was still very low, though i did notice i was proccing
alot with it even though i was almost never getting a slash through.
As a side note though i seem to find it only seems to proc every 3-5
fights though ATM (which is still great as only get hit the few times
evade doesnt work) .
Though the PGT was salvaged from a warrior i gave up at level 13.
Thing is with the warrior i found that the weapon procced roughly
every 1-3 fights occationallly twice in one fight. the dex on the
warrior was also much lower than the dex on the rogue.
The SBD however seems to be having the same proc rate as the PGT did
on the warrior, at the moment though the SBD procs much more than the
PGT at 13 on my rogue. As i mentioned though my skill in 1hs is
pathetic so perhaps this has something to do with it? (spent all my
training points on lockpicking, backstab and dual wield (though
judging by how fast dual wield is rising im thinking i perhaps wasted
thoe 10 training points)
As for it proccing for either a slash or stab im still dubious about.
perhaps the process check is made before the dual wield check is made
and hence could proc even if there is no slash?
Steven H
today than it did on my offhand though the SBD was proccing during PGT
slashes it wasnt proccing nearly as often as when it was in my primary
hand.
Trickle
> You can't put SDClaws into the off-hand, just like you can't
>put BTClaws there.
Dam
Ecwfrk
cld_...@NOSPAM.pacbell.net says...
> How bout warriors?? We are suposed to me the masters of armed melee combat!
> But for a LONG time Paladins have had better weapons, 1 hand slashing that
> was, OK fine they have better 1HS we have better 2H Slash, but not so any
> more, nooo now along comes the FA 33/44 with 110 point proc!
>
> I mean sure make it as hard to aquire, but give us something as well!
>
> And what about Shadow Knights!?
>
> Mitch Chrapla <compu...@speedchoice.com> wrote in message
> news:sd81ohn...@corp.supernews.com...
> > Gordon
> >
> > I don't really want a huge spoiler or anything, but it would be nice to
> > know, Is there a sword of similar of equivalent power to the Fiery Avenger
> > for Rangers? If so has anyone found it?
> >
Gordon once alluded to there being a similar powered sword for each melee
class. Well, think about the obvious. The Firey Avenger was supposedly in
game for almost a year with no one even finding the quest. Until it was
told thet their weapon was in game no one knew where to begin. So Verant
changed the FA to be a bit easier to get. How about confirming that the
other classes quests are in game and doable? And some small hint as to
how to find the quest (like everyone knew the FA was a holy sword which
gave them the needed info to find the quest).
NBarnes
> Dam
Heh. Another fine idea shot down by cruel reality.
NBarnes
Alasdair Allan
sufficient")
> >and PGT in the offhand. PGT procs often when there is no slashing hit.
> >What level were you when you got the PGT? I had a PGT at level 13 (when
I
> >got dual wield) so the skill was still low enough that slash hits were
> >*very* noticeable - and the procs weren't linked.
>
> know. My bard used an Obsidian shard for quite a while in the off hand
> and I don't think I ever saw this effect without an associated miss from
> the shard.
Misses are on. It appears that it is even worse than I imagined. It isn't
just proccing on primary hand hits, when used in the secondary hand, it is
proccing on primary hand *misses* and secondary hand *misses*.
It appears that any time either hand *swings* a proc check is made.
Thomas R. Pennington
I truely do not believe this is do. I carry an EB in my off hand. You
know, that sword that everyone hates, that breaks snare when it procs.
And it procs less in the second hand then it does not the first. It
procs less in the second hand then my SSoY does in the first. It procs
more in the first hand then my SSoY does in the second. I really do not
believe it is true that the process will be checked when ever either
hand swings. If this was a case, I would be a procing madman with both
the EB and the SSoY, and I am not. I do believe that there is a chance
that it could proc with eithe of the swings in a double attack of the
secondary hand. And I do believe that there is a chance that it could
proc regardless if the swing hits for damage or not.
-Wadin Pureheart of Quellious
Ranger, 44 summers
Doug Pitters
-doug
NBarnes <nba...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:38D61BA7...@earthlink.net...
: Mr Foo Bar wrote:
:
: > God and people wonder why Verant wont give out full details on
: > stats ;-)
: >
: > I'm sure using a spreadsheet single player would be cheaper than
: > playing EQ and presumably more exciting ;-)
:
: *shrug* If I trusted Verant to internally balance their game,
: then I wouldn't worry so much. But since Verant provably couldn't
: design their way out of a paper sack, such analysis's become much
: more important.
: It's interesting to me that the Fluxbladed Axe, which is
: basically a ranger's door prize for showing up in Fear, seems to
: be superior to the _much_ harder to get SDClaws or Briarzephyr.
: A typical example of Verant-style design work, and one of the
: reasons that such analysis are needed.
:
: NBarnes
Thomas R. Pennington
Assume level 50.
MN for Flux Ax = 10.15
MN for Briarzephyr = 13.86
Difference in MN = 3.71
Average battle = 90 sec
Damage difference over average battle length = 334
Number of procs per battle necessary by the Flux Axe to equal damage
done by the Briarzephyr = 2.2
MN for SDClaws = 13.49
MN for Flux Ax = 10.15
Difference in MN = 3.34
Average battle = 90 sec
Damage difference over average battle length = 300
Number of procs per battle necessary by the Flux Axe to equal damage
done by SDClaws = 2.0
;) You are correct, it is very interesting. ;)
-thomasx
Wadin Pureheart of Quellious
NBarnes
> Alasdair Allan <posth...@x-static.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> : NBarnes <nba...@earthlink.net> wrote
> :> Alasdair Allan wrote:
> :> > *ALSO*, and this is the *fucking killer*. Because of the way
> :> > Weapon Processes work, sticking the Fluxblade Axe in your offhand
> :> > (150 DD) should get *much* more processes than a Paladin with a
> :> > Fiery Avenger. Because a Process check is made whenever *either*
> :> > hand hits. So the Ranger gets roughly 5 times the *chances* to
> :> > Process over a Paladin!
> :> *blink* Cite? If this is true... well, I can't say that it's
> :> insanity on a scale hitherto fore unheard of in EQ, since there's
> :> some pretty insane stuff, but... it's up there. Certainly, it
> :> would make the Fluxbladed the _ultimate_ off-hand weapon.
> :> Briarzephyr/Fluxbladed = mean, mean ranger. That combo might
> :> actually outdamage SDClaws/Bloodfire, if Alasdair's right (which
> :> he usually is), which is kinda sick.
> : Experience. I had a PGT at level 13 when I got Dual Wield and it
> : was very noticeable that while the PGT procced regularly
> :(excellent low level weapon) there was no relationship to my
> :actually making a slashing swing!
> I remain skeptical but I can see a hole in my experience with this
> weapon: I usually used it in my offhand because I liked using my
> demonclaw and its primary hand only. I'm going to try various
> combinations this weekend.
To revive this thread and add a little more data, with Claire
(Obs Shard primary, DDirk offhand), I very often notice that I've
received a 'Your Obsidian Shatter spell was resisted' message in
SolA without any accompanying hit. I have no idea why this is
happening, but it does suggest that something weird is happening
with procs.
NBarnes - Dina Demeteran, 50th circle druid, Sol Ro
Claire d'Lune, 19th level rogue, Sol Ro
NBarnes
> Misses are on. It appears that it is even worse than I imagined.
> It isn't just proccing on primary hand hits, when used in the
> secondary hand, it is proccing on primary hand *misses* and
> secondary hand *misses*.
>
> It appears that any time either hand *swings* a proc check is made.
Ah, that would explain why Claire is proccing Obs Shatter without
any hit messages; I hate spam and have misses turned off all
around.
You have become better at EQ Lore! (153)