/shrug
Wanbiky Trainstopper
Well, i didnt think i'd ever be doing this, but i have 2weeks left in EQ,
its too much of a job anymore, and SWG looks alot better. thats all i have
to say, :) so, when i disappear in a couple weeks, and you all going whered
that lovely Wanbiky fellow go, you know, the one with the bad puntuation,
and sentence structure. youll know im contently waiting for SWG to be
released while mucking it up in some FPS games =\
was good times but everything comes to an end. Take care
SAN DIMAS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES!!!!!
/bill and ted fanatic quote off
-Wanbiky-
Devon Bleak
"Wanbiky Trainstopper" <Wan...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:5xjV9.157$6x.11...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
> As a prequisite, NO NONE OF U BLEEDY BASTAGES CAN HAVE MY STUFF
I'm not bleedy, nor a bastage. CIHYS?
Meerina
Trev
Being as how I'm not currently bleeding, and I can trace my parentage
quite well, CIHYS?
Remorayn Foxxfyre, 56 Tunarian Ranger
Khosh
<Wan...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>Take care SAN DIMAS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES!!!!!
>/bill and ted fanatic quote off
Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.
<------(--o
Tanais 31st Vah Shir Shaman - Innoruuk
Khosh 44th Barbarian Beastlord - Firiona Vie (retired)
Nimok 7th Ogre Beastlord - Firiona Vie
Khosh 18th Vah Shir Beastlord - Test
RaKhosh 18th Ogre Beastlord - Xev
Valien Stillwater 53rd Human Monk - Innoruuk (retired)
o--)------>
"[He] lacks the wit and understanding of irony that separates cantankerous from crackpot."
- - Arolpin
Wanbiky Trainstopper
"Devon Bleak" <de...@NbrOicSkhPut.cAomM> wrote in message
news:d0kV9.570784$GR5.3...@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
Sure, ya can actually if u can figure out how to get no drop items xferred,
my bank account is empty.... about the only droppable items i have are a
lammy, lupine dagger and 2valorium rings of gallantry, but those are already
given away the rings that is
Jeff Kennedy
<Wan...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I think you may be back. SWG isn't going to be as cool as everyone
thinks.
Shrom
wrote:
Lot of the testers walked off the project in protest at one point have
no idea how it turned out, dont care its SOE and theres never gonna be
another SoE game in my future.
Wanbiky Trainstopper
"Shrom" <Sh...@baenom.com> wrote in message
news:j2mb2vcpurjndlbrc...@4ax.com...
if i dont like SWG, ill stick to FPS, or who knows maybe ill start going
to the gym daily again instead of once a week :-D
Dark Jedi
>
> if i dont like SWG, ill stick to FPS, or who knows maybe ill start going
> to the gym daily again instead of once a week :-D
Hah! gotcha beat on that one. Just moved a gym machine in to the
basement, by the computer. I work out between long spawns! ;-)
--
"The basic Creationist strategy is thus: If Evolutionists point
out uncountable examples in nature, claim it isn't science
because it can't be reproduced in a lab. If Evolutionists
conduct successful experiments in a lab, claim it is irrelevant
because it wasn't in a natural environment."
- satyr, alt.atheism
sanjian
news:5xjV9.157$6x.11...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
See ya two weeks after SWG is released. Don't destroy your nodrop stuff.
Horus
>
> I think you may be back. SWG isn't going to be as cool as everyone
> thinks.
Wow - insightful. Care to explain why you believe this? Overhype?
Personal vendetta vs SOE? Dont care for star wars? Just saying "its
going to suck" (im paraphrasing of course) doesnt mean much.
I personally belive its got great potential, the question is can they
live up to that potential?
One thing that kind of irks me about the whole project, is that they
are already working on an expansion when the damn thing isnt even out
yet. Its already an "over ambitious" project, lets get it working
before we even consider making it bigger.
John Kievlan
> thinks.
Oh, I dunno man, it looks pretty damn awesome. Of course if I try it and it
sucks, well, I'll just come running back to EQ with my tail between my legs
and all I'll be out is a month (or less) of EQ playing time. Not even cash,
I'm going with the free month to start with (of course).
Jeff Kennedy
Well Horus, without giving away too much (you'll either believe me or
you won't) you pretty much hit the nail on the head with most of the
projects SOE has attempted since VI was acquired. Over ambitious was
the rule rather than the exception. Planetside anyone? Soverign? I
can tell you that Soverign was completely restarted 3 times, almost
from ground up. Know how many times EQ was restarted? 0, zero, nada,
zilch.
All the new games I have seen, including EQ2, are overhyped and put
too much weight on graphics. The graphics part is just my opinion of
course but I love EQ because its design was great, not for the
graphics. I have nothing against SOE except that I think they are
screwing up what should have been the best game line in history. Brad
McQuaid and his team did an utterly fantastic job on EQ, but that team
is all but gone now. Why? Because SOE came in and started screwing
with the system. A system that was proven. Now they've decided to go
it on their own under Sigil Games. Of course we have to wait and see
how it goes, but I'm betting they make history again.
But I digress. It's potential was tremendous, but it's since been
lost. Take it as you will.
John Kievlan
> you won't) you pretty much hit the nail on the head with most of the
> projects SOE has attempted since VI was acquired. Over ambitious was
> the rule rather than the exception. Planetside anyone? Soverign? I
> can tell you that Soverign was completely restarted 3 times, almost
> from ground up. Know how many times EQ was restarted? 0, zero, nada,
> zilch.
Without giving away too much? Come on, man, unless you're a beta tester or
something, what is it that gives you this absolute information that SWG is
going to suck? I mean, I'd understand you doubting that it will be as good
as SOE says, or guessing that they'll make some (or a lot of) mistakes, but
it seems pretty damn complacent to me for you to sit back with a satisfied
smile and say, "Ah, well, they'll all be back. SWG is gonna suck and
they'll sure find that out, then they'll come crying back and tell me I was
right!" Frankly, though EQ is a great game, there are a number of things
about it that suck goat scrotum (pardon my language). SWG appears to have
addressed every single one of those problems in very ingenious ways, from
what I've been reading on the site. Now I suppose it's possible that the
developers are just lying and they're not really doing what they say they're
doing, or that their solutions won't work like they think they will, or that
there'll be so many bugs it won't even be worth mucking through them all,
etc., etc., but frankly with the incredibly awesome concepts going into the
game, I'm going to try it, dammit. Even if it doesn't work I'll still think
they made a damn good try.
Oh, oh, wait. That's it. You must be one of those people who think SWG is
going to crash and burn because of SCS. Never mind, have fun with EQ.
~!JDK!~
Jeff Kennedy
wrote:
>
>Without giving away too much? Come on, man, unless you're a beta tester or
>something, what is it that gives you this absolute information that SWG is
>going to suck? I mean, I'd understand you doubting that it will be as good
>as SOE says, or guessing that they'll make some (or a lot of) mistakes, but
>it seems pretty damn complacent to me for you to sit back with a satisfied
>smile and say, "Ah, well, they'll all be back. SWG is gonna suck and
>they'll sure find that out, then they'll come crying back and tell me I was
>right!" Frankly, though EQ is a great game, there are a number of things
>about it that suck goat scrotum (pardon my language). SWG appears to have
>addressed every single one of those problems in very ingenious ways, from
>what I've been reading on the site. Now I suppose it's possible that the
>developers are just lying and they're not really doing what they say they're
>doing, or that their solutions won't work like they think they will, or that
>there'll be so many bugs it won't even be worth mucking through them all,
>etc., etc., but frankly with the incredibly awesome concepts going into the
>game, I'm going to try it, dammit. Even if it doesn't work I'll still think
>they made a damn good try.
>
>Oh, oh, wait. That's it. You must be one of those people who think SWG is
>going to crash and burn because of SCS. Never mind, have fun with EQ.
I have to admit I don't know what SCS is so I can't answer that. My
game of choice is EQ and no other. What other people choose to play
is there business and everyone has differing opinions as to what's
good and what's not, I believe I made it clear that it was my
*opinion* that SWG wouldn't be as good as people think. And I never
said it was going to crash, you could put that goat scrotum you
mentioned in a bag and put Star Wars on the side in magic marker and
someone would buy it. I'm sure they'll make money, I'm just also sure
that it won't be anywhere near as good as EQ *in my opinion*.
And if you believe everything you read, I've got a deal for you.....
Horus
> Well Horus, without giving away too much (you'll either believe me or
> you won't) you pretty much hit the nail on the head with most of the
> projects SOE has attempted since VI was acquired. Over ambitious was
> the rule rather than the exception. Planetside anyone? Soverign? I
> can tell you that Soverign was completely restarted 3 times, almost
> from ground up. Know how many times EQ was restarted? 0, zero, nada,
> zilch.
>
> All the new games I have seen, including EQ2, are overhyped and put
> too much weight on graphics. The graphics part is just my opinion of
> course but I love EQ because its design was great, not for the
> graphics. I have nothing against SOE except that I think they are
> screwing up what should have been the best game line in history. Brad
> McQuaid and his team did an utterly fantastic job on EQ, but that team
> is all but gone now. Why? Because SOE came in and started screwing
> with the system. A system that was proven. Now they've decided to go
> it on their own under Sigil Games. Of course we have to wait and see
> how it goes, but I'm betting they make history again.
>
> But I digress. It's potential was tremendous, but it's since been
> lost. Take it as you will.
To call something overhyped before its out is premature. That may be a
label slapped on it after its release perhaps. You point out that
thier focus is on graphics. Have you seen the intended features of
SWG? Far more than pretty graphics. I cant say much about EQ2 at this
point, but SWG (if the intended features go in and work - perhaps a
big if) is one of the more complex online games in development.
I agree with you that EQ has lost its original vision. It had to,
unfortunately. In order for it to keep its customer base and draw in
new players, it had to expand and grow. The original design was
somewhat short sighted. They didnt anticipate the huge interest (i
recall interviews with Smedly how EQ far exceeded thier expectations).
The game today is vastly different than it was when the servers were
first flipped on. If they hadnt added the content they did, im sure
most players would have gotten bored and moved on (as some still do).
The limits of the original framework were realized quickly. Do you
think if there was still a level 50 cap, there would still be the same
number of players? Theyve shifted the focus of the game - for good or
bad (a topic for a different debate I suppose). Pretty amazing tho,
that theyve held the interest of many gamers for many years (just
about 4 now).
Hopefully they've learned from thier mistakes and can plan SWG and EQ2
to better support growth without drastically changing the game.
Ronny Cook
"Horus" <Storm...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:48a72f2a.03011...@posting.google.com...
> Jeff Kennedy <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:<r9lb2vk5q027u0aph...@4ax.com>...
>
> >
> > I think you may be back. SWG isn't going to be as cool as everyone
> > thinks.
>
> Wow - insightful. Care to explain why you believe this? Overhype?
> Personal vendetta vs SOE? Dont care for star wars? Just saying "its
> going to suck" (im paraphrasing of course) doesnt mean much.
Given the sheer amount of hype that we're getting, and how utterly cool
everybody thinks it's going to be, he's probably right. He doesn't say
it's going to suck. Just be less wonderful than everyone thinks.
>
> I personally belive its got great potential, the question is can they
> live up to that potential?
Exactly.
>
> One thing that kind of irks me about the whole project, is that they
> are already working on an expansion when the damn thing isnt even out
> yet. Its already an "over ambitious" project, lets get it working
> before we even consider making it bigger.
I can understand why they're planning the expansion already. What's Star
Wars without the Stars? If people didn't think the space part wasn't at
least in the pipeline, they wouldn't get nearly as many players.
I'm just wondering how they'll be implementing the planets... will each
server be a planet, that you can travel to? Now *that* would be cool.
None of this messing around with character transfers.
...Ronny
John Kievlan
SCS = Single Character Servers.
Due to the unique structure of the game (particularly (1) the fact that
every character is guaranteed a certain amount of in-game real-estate,
making it necessary to be able to figure pretty exactly how many characters
will be active on any given server, and (2) the mechanics designed to
strongly encourage helping out lower level players, nearly all of which
could be circumvented by simply creating a second character, "helping" that
character, then deleting him/her), the devs decided that each account can
have only 1 character per server. You can, however, have multiple
characters, each on a different server.
> game of choice is EQ and no other. What other people choose to play
> is there business and everyone has differing opinions as to what's
> good and what's not, I believe I made it clear that it was my
> *opinion* that SWG wouldn't be as good as people think. And I never
> said it was going to crash, you could put that goat scrotum you
> mentioned in a bag and put Star Wars on the side in magic marker and
> someone would buy it. I'm sure they'll make money, I'm just also sure
> that it won't be anywhere near as good as EQ *in my opinion*.
I suppose this is a matter of opinion. My point of view is that since I
started playing EQ, I've seen a number of things I did not like (granted,
I've also seen many things I *do* like). Until recently I still intended to
keep playing EQ because it's still the best there is. But when I checked
out the SWG site I found, to my amazement, that for every single issue I've
seen with EQ, they have a solution that looks very good in the works for
SWG. You have to keep in mind that these are the EQ developers who now have
4 years of experience and are creating an entirely new game using everything
they've learned from the good and bad of EQ.
> And if you believe everything you read, I've got a deal for you.....
I don't believe everything I read. I don't recall ever making an absolute
statement that everything people are saying about SWG is going to turn out
to be true. I'm simply taking exception to the following statement of
yours:
"SWG isn't going to be as cool as everyone
thinks."
Now, if you'd said "I don't think SWG will be as cool as everyone thinks"
then I'd say you're entitled to your opinion. But I think it's a bit
arrogant to say, nope, that game sucks, period, before it's even been
released and before *anyone* knows anything about it besides what's been
said on the SOE website.
Horus
>
> Given the sheer amount of hype that we're getting, and how utterly cool
> everybody thinks it's going to be, he's probably right. He doesn't say
> it's going to suck. Just be less wonderful than everyone thinks.
It's inevitable that SWG will get compared to EQ in terms of content
and features. One thing that we have to realize is that EQ has been
out much longer (duhh) and has had much more time to develop and grow.
Of course SWG wont have as much content. It would be foolish to expect
the same depth as EQ. Compare EQ when it started back in March 99 to
now. Certainly SWG will offer more than EQ did when it started.
> I can understand why they're planning the expansion already. What's Star
> Wars without the Stars? If people didn't think the space part wasn't at
> least in the pipeline, they wouldn't get nearly as many players.
Planning it now I can see. Devoting a large amount of man hours to it
now seems overboard. Id rather see them take some of that energy into
the initial development, offering more at launch. Its probably a way
for them to charge us for more content more quickly.
> I'm just wondering how they'll be implementing the planets... will each
> server be a planet, that you can travel to? Now *that* would be cool.
> None of this messing around with character transfers.
As I understand it, each server will be much like EQ, each being a
parallel universe as opposed to a single shared galaxy. So, there will
be the messing around with character transfers. But this leaves open
the possibility for server rule sets should they wish to implement
that in the future.
A shared galaxy obviously has its advantages and disadvantages. The
biggest disadvantage I can think off right off the bat is, imagine if
theres a nexus type zone (or bazaar) where people tend to congregate.
Imagine the lag if 5000 people are just hanging around in the same
area.
Sean Kennedy
news:5wVV9.7$e3...@nwrddc04.gnilink.net:
> "SWG isn't going to be as cool as everyone
> thinks."
>
> Now, if you'd said "I don't think SWG will be as cool as everyone
> thinks" then I'd say you're entitled to your opinion. But I think
> it's a bit arrogant to say, nope, that game sucks, period, before it's
> even been released and before *anyone* knows anything about it besides
> what's been said on the SOE website.
>
There is a point there - Many people (judging by their posts in
the SWG forums) have what are (IMO) unreasonably high expectations
for this game. I saw the same thing prior to release of DAoC
as well. These people become disillusioned VERY quickly and tend
to slam the game and the developers. For these people I feel
quite confident in saying "SWG will be nowhere near as cool
as they think."
I think some variant of "No plan survives contact with reality" should
be our mantra as we approach one of these games. The devs have many
ideas that, on paper, would seem to equate to a great game. However,
these gameplay mechanics, while they may work in the small community
of Beta may fall apart completely when exposed to live servers with
thousands of players going their own way.
One thing I worry about is the almost complete reliance on PC's in
every step of the crafting process. As crafters move up in their
chosen skill, they lose the ability to make the more basic sub-
assemblies in favor of the ability to put those together in a finished
product. The question I have, is will there always be enough
people with a character at the appropriate skill level to make
those sub-assemblies to supply to the higher end folks?
Sean Kennedy
news:48a72f2a.03011...@posting.google.com:
> "Ronny Cook" <ronny.justtheb...@ronnycook.org> wrote in
> message news:<gei70b...@news.nexon.com.au>...
>
>>
>> Given the sheer amount of hype that we're getting, and how utterly
>> cool everybody thinks it's going to be, he's probably right. He
>> doesn't say it's going to suck. Just be less wonderful than everyone
>> thinks.
>
> It's inevitable that SWG will get compared to EQ in terms of content
> and features. One thing that we have to realize is that EQ has been
> out much longer (duhh) and has had much more time to develop and grow.
> Of course SWG wont have as much content. It would be foolish to expect
> the same depth as EQ. Compare EQ when it started back in March 99 to
> now. Certainly SWG will offer more than EQ did when it started.
SWG has a small advantage over EQ in that they have the incredible
amount of source material in the continuity to draw on - at the
same time in their life cycle I'd expect SWG to have more content
than EQ (IE compare SWG at launch to EQ at launch)
>
>> I can understand why they're planning the expansion already. What's
>> Star Wars without the Stars? If people didn't think the space part
>> wasn't at least in the pipeline, they wouldn't get nearly as many
>> players.
>
> Planning it now I can see. Devoting a large amount of man hours to it
> now seems overboard. Id rather see them take some of that energy into
> the initial development, offering more at launch. Its probably a way
> for them to charge us for more content more quickly.
Thing to remember is that there are seriously dimishing returns as you
put more assets into a single project. SOE and LucasArts are large
enough to easily have two full developement teams working on the 2
products.
Jeff Kennedy
wrote:
>I suppose this is a matter of opinion.
Almost everything on this newsgroup is a matter of opinion. I just
assume everyone understands that a statement like "SWG isn't going to
be as cool as everyone thinks." is a matter of opinion. I obviously
can't speak for everyone factually.
>You have to keep in mind that these are the EQ developers who now have
>4 years of experience and are creating an entirely new game using everything
>they've learned from the good and bad of EQ.
Actually no. Most of the core design team for EQ is gone. What's
left are people who know how to program but not necessarily design a
game. Big difference. The original talent is all but gone, that's
not to say there isn't any talent left at SOE merely that the talent
you are alluding to is no longer present.
>Now, if you'd said "I don't think SWG will be as cool as everyone thinks"
>then I'd say you're entitled to your opinion. But I think it's a bit
>arrogant to say, nope, that game sucks, period, before it's even been
>released and before *anyone* knows anything about it besides what's been
>said on the SOE website.
I never said it sucked, you even quoted me so you should have seen it
too. And I think it's flawed to say no one knows anything about it
except what's posted. Haven't you ever seen a movie that wasn't yet
in theaters? Haven't you ever received a draft copy of a book not yet
in print?
So, for the sake of the newsgroup community, let me re-state:
It's my opinion that SWG will not be as cool as everyone thinks, and
for all the reasons already covered in this exhaustive thread.
Horus
>
> Thing to remember is that there are seriously dimishing returns as you
> put more assets into a single project. SOE and LucasArts are large
> enough to easily have two full developement teams working on the 2
> products.
But if these extra assets make the difference between a good game and
a bad game, seems to me it would be worth the effort. Of course the
corporate pin heads only see the bottom line.
Sean Kennedy
news:48a72f2a.03012...@posting.google.com:
You still don't understand - beyond a certain point more people on
a project can actually slow down the development process. Tasks
can only be subdivided so far. SOE and LucasArts can easily afford
to fully fund these 2 projects, as well as several others WITHOUT
adversely affecting the quality of the team/product.
It simply doesn't happen that a company that size has only
X amount of total resources (programmers, artists etc) to split
among there projects - as you can see from many of the little
developer letters, many of these people were hired there specifically
for SWG
John Kievlan
> every step of the crafting process. As crafters move up in their
> chosen skill, they lose the ability to make the more basic sub-
> assemblies in favor of the ability to put those together in a finished
> product. The question I have, is will there always be enough
> people with a character at the appropriate skill level to make
> those sub-assemblies to supply to the higher end folks?
I think so, though as you've pointed out there's no way to know how well it
will work until we actually see it in practice. But as it's supposed to
work, you can make just as much money creating low-end components and
selling to manufacturers as you can building finished products -- so I'd
imagine there will be three classes of tradeskillers: jacks-of-all-trades
who spread their skill points out to create low-end components of many
different items, generalists who create mid-level components of a certain
group of similar items, and specialists who take the mid-level components
and create one specific type of item using their very high skill in that
item. But there's still the question of whether there will be enough of
each type of crafter. I think there's a good chance there will be --
judging by the way real-world economics work out, I would think that when
there are too many specialists, anyone who tries to become a specialist will
be unable to find anything to create their products with, so many of them
will buyback some of their skill points and spread them out to make simpler
components to sell to their former peers. If there are too many
jacks-of-all-trades, some of them will begin to pull their skill points out
of side disciplines and specialize in a certain type of object, since
nobody's buying their simple components -- they'll figure that if they use
the glut on the market of low-end components to create some higher-level
items, they'll be able to sell those items to specialists who aren't getting
everything they need. I think it might be slow to get going but it should
even out. I may be wrong, though, and SOE may have to put NPCs into some of
the positions players were supposed to fill -- I hope not because I much
prefer to deal with players than NPCs, it makes for much richer gameplay.