/Corpse Changes
StormeRider
http://boards.station.sony.com/everquest/Forum4/HTML/062897.html
Please add to this. /corpse will become /drag. That wasn't what we asked
for. Dammit.
--
------------------------------------------------------
Kellarin, Dwaven Fighter, 10th Level
Kinadwen, Half-elven Bard, 7th Level
Lanys T'Vyl Server
------------------------------------------------------
Dark Tyger
<storm...@sorrowmist.org> wrote:
>Note from Abashi:
>
>http://boards.station.sony.com/everquest/Forum4/HTML/062897.html
>
>Please add to this. /corpse will become /drag. That wasn't what we asked
>for. Dammit.
That's not a /corpse change, it's a /consent change.
Dammit, this means my "safe twink" method is gonna be taken away. ;)
--
Change "Tyger" to "half" to email me.
=^..^=
"If I go crazy then will you still call me Superman?
If I'm alive and well, will you be there to hold in my hand?"
-Three Doors Down
A place between time and space, everywhere and nowhere
http://www.fortunecity.com/roswell/psychic/876/den.html
Friendly staff, beautiful gaming/chat environment. Check it out!
Morgan
>
> Note from Abashi:
>
> http://boards.station.sony.com/everquest/Forum4/HTML/062897.html
>
> Please add to this. /corpse will become /drag. That wasn't what we asked
> for. Dammit.
Actually, it is exactly what we asked for.
Figuring that there was only data on the corpses to record one
list, we asked that the /consent command give permission only
to drag and not to loot.
Thank you, Verant, for listening to your customers.
--
Morgan
mous...@yahoo.com
> StormeRider wrote:
>>
>> Note from Abashi:
>>
>> http://boards.station.sony.com/everquest/Forum4/HTML/062897.html
>>
>> Please add to this. /corpse will become /drag. That wasn't what we asked
>> for. Dammit.
> Actually, it is exactly what we asked for.
> Figuring that there was only data on the corpses to record one
> list, we asked that the /consent command give permission only
> to drag and not to loot.
Why? If your corpse goes down in a location where you simply can't get back
to it yourself, no matter how hard you (and your friends) try, what difference
does it make? If someone wants to screw around with you, they can just as
easily drag you someplace less safe as anything else. I don't see how this
helps in any particular matter; it just means that if your corpse is nigh on
unrecoverable in the first place, it has now become completely unrecoverable.
Dan Harmon
Morgan <mor...@misleading.com> wrote in message
news:39776158...@misleading.com...
> StormeRider wrote:
> >
> > Note from Abashi:
> >
> > http://boards.station.sony.com/everquest/Forum4/HTML/062897.html
> >
> > Please add to this. /corpse will become /drag. That wasn't what we asked
> > for. Dammit.
>
> Actually, it is exactly what we asked for.
Actually, it isn't. What the majority of people were asking for were BOTH
commands.
The new /corpse command may be better than the old, but certainly was not
the best solution if they wanted to do what their customers actually
requested.
I'm not bitching, it'll make things a little less convenient, but I think
that if you're stuck with one or the other, this is the better choice.
Would be nice if they had the "/consent drag" or "/consent loot" option
available, however (if no parameters were included, "/consent drag" would be
assumed).
Lokari
>If someone wants to screw around with you, they can just as
>easily drag you someplace less safe as anything else. I don't see how this
>helps in any particular matter
There is more than one kind of jackass behavior. Yes, some people
could use the drag ability to screw you over, just because they're
jerks. However, there isn't much to gain from doing that, except to
demonstrate that they're jerks.
The ability to strip a corpse of goodies, though, there was a definite
gain to be had by the jerk - he'd get your loot.
There isn't nearly so much incentive to simply be a jerk as there was
to be a jerk *and* steal some goodies while at it.
Still, should have just implemented both a /consent and a /drag.
--
www.enteract.com/~lokari
"No one of consequence"
mous...@yahoo.com
>>If someone wants to screw around with you, they can just as
>>easily drag you someplace less safe as anything else. I don't see how this
>>helps in any particular matter
> There is more than one kind of jackass behavior. Yes, some people
> could use the drag ability to screw you over, just because they're
> jerks. However, there isn't much to gain from doing that, except to
> demonstrate that they're jerks.
I guess my question falls more along the line of "Where is your corpse that
YOU can't drag it back to somewhere safe to loot, yourself?" I mean, I can
see it being convenient to have someone drag it, but then you would only
/consent (in the old manner) if you knew the person. Otherwise you'd eat the
inconvenience and go drag it back yourself.
If it's somewhere that you TRULY can't recover it from (i.e. you were in WAY
over your head when you died) and you have no friends who can help you do it
anyway (i.e. nobody that you would have trusted under the old /consent), then
how likely is it that you're easily going to find someone who would drag it out
for you now? I guess I just don't understand what type of situation you could
previously get into where you'd entrust your corpse to a perfect stranger
except as a last resort type of argument, where it was do that or your corpse
rots. All the arguments I can come up with of this type make it seem
detrimental that others can't loot at all, now: if your corpse really was in
such a dangerous location that a drag wasn't easily achievable, no matter how
hard you tried, I'd imagine a situation wherein it is much easier to loot
(some) items than drag a corpse out.
> The ability to strip a corpse of goodies, though, there was a definite
> gain to be had by the jerk - he'd get your loot.
Just as in PvP, I think there's a huge underestimation of how many people
"turn" when tempted vs. how many are just naturally jerks. I suppose it's one
less outlet, so perhaps it will help that way; on the other hand, it's also
one less recourse if your corpse is well and truly stuck. (And I'm really
having difficulty imagining how you get your corpse into such a situation in
the first place, except at *very* high levels.)
Dan Day
>> Please add to this. /corpse will become /drag. That wasn't what we asked
>> for. Dammit.
>
>Actually, it is exactly what we asked for.
>
>list, we asked that the /consent command give permission only
>to drag and not to loot.
Well something's broken, because this morning I died, then died
again trying to get to my corpse. I then /consented a friend,
who went to the first corpse and couldn't drag it.
But he died during the attempt(s), and since I was closer to
where he died than his spawn point, he /consented me and I had
no problem dragging his corpse to him.
Strange.
--
"How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the
plain Meaning of Words!"
--Samuel Adams (1722-1803), letter to John Pitts, January 21, 1776
Voodoo
LOL. That really sucks, I do it all the time too = )
"Dark Tyger" <dark...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:398108bf...@news.mindspring.com...
> On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 09:57:24 -0400, "StormeRider"
> <storm...@sorrowmist.org> wrote:
>
> >Note from Abashi:
> >
> >http://boards.station.sony.com/everquest/Forum4/HTML/062897.html
> >
> >Please add to this. /corpse will become /drag. That wasn't what we asked
> >for. Dammit.
>
Morgan
>
> Morgan <mor...@misleading.com> wrote in message
> news:39776158...@misleading.com...
> > >
> > > Note from Abashi:
> > >
> > > http://boards.station.sony.com/everquest/Forum4/HTML/062897.html
> > >
> > > Please add to this. /corpse will become /drag. That wasn't what we asked
> > > for. Dammit.
> >
>
> commands.
Yes, but when we figured out why we couldn't have both commands
(because there is only one list of names associated with a body),
we asked that the existing command be changed instead.
Verant saw that this was a reasonable suggestion and are going to
implement it. I am glad that they saw reason in this matter.
> The new /corpse command may be better than the old, but certainly was not
> the best solution if they wanted to do what their customers actually
> requested.
>
> I'm not bitching, it'll make things a little less convenient, but I think
> that if you're stuck with one or the other, this is the better choice.
> Would be nice if they had the "/consent drag" or "/consent loot" option
> available, however (if no parameters were included, "/consent drag" would be
> assumed).
Adding a new text command to the parser is no big deal. That is
not the technical limitation Gordon spoke of.
--
Morgan
Adam Russell
"Voodoo" <jlutf...@home.com> wrote in message
news:5vKd5.75745$7I1.1...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com...
> "Dammit, this means my "safe twink" method is gonna be taken away. ;)"
>
> LOL. That really sucks, I do it all the time too = )
>
> "Dark Tyger" <dark...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:398108bf...@news.mindspring.com...
> > On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 09:57:24 -0400, "StormeRider"
> > <storm...@sorrowmist.org> wrote:
> >
> > >Note from Abashi:
> > >
> > >http://boards.station.sony.com/everquest/Forum4/HTML/062897.html
> > >
> > >Please add to this. /corpse will become /drag. That wasn't what we
asked
> > >for. Dammit.
> >
Morgan
>
> Lokari <lok...@enteract.com> wrote:
> > mous...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >>If someone wants to screw around with you, they can just as
> >>easily drag you someplace less safe as anything else. I don't see how this
> >>helps in any particular matter
>
> > There is more than one kind of jackass behavior. Yes, some people
> > could use the drag ability to screw you over, just because they're
> > jerks. However, there isn't much to gain from doing that, except to
> > demonstrate that they're jerks.
>
> I guess my question falls more along the line of "Where is your corpse that
> YOU can't drag it back to somewhere safe to loot, yourself?" I mean, I can
> see it being convenient to have someone drag it, but then you would only
> /consent (in the old manner) if you knew the person. Otherwise you'd eat the
> inconvenience and go drag it back yourself.
Some classes are much better able to recover corpses than others.
If your body is lying amidst a mix of living and undead creatures,
nothing beats an invisible Rogue for corpse dragging.
Bards can levitate or breath water as well as locate the body if
it is in a very inaccessible place.
Anyone who can cast Gate and Invisibility has a better chance of
escaping while on a perilous corpse retrieval mission.
> If it's somewhere that you TRULY can't recover it from (i.e. you were in WAY
> over your head when you died) and you have no friends who can help you do it
> anyway (i.e. nobody that you would have trusted under the old /consent), then
> how likely is it that you're easily going to find someone who would drag it out
> for you now? I guess I just don't understand what type of situation you could
> previously get into where you'd entrust your corpse to a perfect stranger
> except as a last resort type of argument, where it was do that or your corpse
> rots. All the arguments I can come up with of this type make it seem
> detrimental that others can't loot at all, now: if your corpse really was in
> such a dangerous location that a drag wasn't easily achievable, no matter how
> hard you tried, I'd imagine a situation wherein it is much easier to loot
> (some) items than drag a corpse out.
Given that the person dragging your body would have nothing to
gain by screwing you over, I think you have a lot more options
with the new command. You can now trust people who offer to
drag your body to you. Also, more people will offer because
they know their offer is safe. Previously, I never offered to
drag bodies for strangers because I didn't want people thinking
I was trying to scam them.
If you can get to the zone that holds your body, you can get it
back. If you died in an utterly horrible spot, like under the
dragon's feet, you can resort to hiring a Necromancer to summon
the body for you.
Corpses take 24 hours of online time or a week of offline time
before they rot. You have a lot of time to find help before
your items disappear.
If you find yourself in a situation where the corpse is utterly
unretrievable even with Summon Corpse (e.g. you died on the planes
and then were reduced four levels due to bind point deaths) then
you should call a GM to help. The number of people who will find
themselves in that fix is tiny compared to the number of people
who were being ripped off by corpse looters.
> > The ability to strip a corpse of goodies, though, there was a definite
> > gain to be had by the jerk - he'd get your loot.
>
> Just as in PvP, I think there's a huge underestimation of how many people
> "turn" when tempted vs. how many are just naturally jerks. I suppose it's one
> less outlet, so perhaps it will help that way; on the other hand, it's also
> one less recourse if your corpse is well and truly stuck. (And I'm really
> having difficulty imagining how you get your corpse into such a situation in
> the first place, except at *very* high levels.)
The few times I have consented someone other than a very dear and
trusted friend were to have my body dragged to a cleric who could
revive/resurrect me. Often the place you died in is not a good
place to reappear immobile with half health and no mana.
--
Morgan
hughes
Actually I have never been in a situation where I wanted anyone to loot my
corpse for me. I have been in many where I wanted someone to drag it to a
cleric for raising. I am entirely happy with this change which is somewhat
unusual :)
Morgan
>
> Morgan <mor...@misleading.com> wrote:
> > StormeRider wrote:
> >>
> >> Note from Abashi:
> >>
> >> http://boards.station.sony.com/everquest/Forum4/HTML/062897.html
> >>
> >> Please add to this. /corpse will become /drag. That wasn't what we asked
> >> for. Dammit.
>
>
> > list, we asked that the /consent command give permission only
> > to drag and not to loot.
>
> to it yourself, no matter how hard you (and your friends) try, what difference
> easily drag you someplace less safe as anything else. I don't see how this
> unrecoverable in the first place, it has now become completely unrecoverable.
Consider the limitations of the two options:
/consent to loot:
You can't give someone permission to bring your body to safety
without giving them access to all your gear. You must utterly
trust the person not to give in to temptation.
The most common petition related to this command is a complaint
to a GM about corpse looting.
/consent to drag:
A person must be able to walk from your corpse to the safe spot
where you are waiting. They cannot just loot it and gate back
to you. This makes it difficult to retrieve corpses in areas
that are most easily accessed by jumping into pits.
The most common petition is for a corpse that is in a zone you
can't get into at all. (If you can get into the zone at all,
you have the option of hiring a Necromancer to cast Summon Corpse.)
Dragging your body somewhere awful could be done in either case
but the only motivation for such an action would be to harass you.
They do not stand to gain anything by hiding your body. The
motivation for looting your body and keeping the stuff is obvious:
they get your gear and money.
It is an awful lot easier for the GMs to resolve problems with
corpses that are inaccessible for logistical reasons than to
resolve accusations of consent stealing. The problem is immediately
verifiable by simply looking at the corpse and the character.
Also, with the tools available for recovering bodies, the number of
cases where "/consent to drag" is inadequate but "/consent to loot"
would be is tiny compared to the number of consent stealing
incidents.
--
Morgan
Ben Krauskopf
>I guess my question falls more along the line of "Where is your corpse
>that YOU can't drag it back to somewhere safe to loot, yourself?" I
>mean, I can see it being convenient to have someone drag it, but then
>you would only /consent (in the old manner) if you knew the person.
>Otherwise you'd eat the inconvenience and go drag it back yourself.
The first things that comes to mind is the tree pit in Blackburrow. People
start going into BB at about 6th level to hunt up top and, sooner or later,
wind up falling down that hole deep into the heart of the gnoll fortress.
They have no idea how to get out or how to get to their body and probably
couldn't make it unassisted even if they could. I don't know how many
times I've gone and either helped someone get out or helped them get their
body out before. This one gets a LOT of people.
There's also that shark pit trap under Qeynos.
I suspect others could come up with additional examples.
Sure, it's not as hard to start over at the levels these traps get you. On
the other hand, the newbie who scraped together a few plat for a mino axe
is probably just as keen to get it back as the 60th level guy with the
ultra-uber-mega-ginso-dealer-of-death.
Ben
Dark Tyger
wrote:
>I always had problems with that anyway - easier to find some REALLY obscure
>place to drop stuff (way out in Erudin bay, for instance) in and pick it up
>later. Of course, it helps if your on GMT as there aren't so many people
>around.
Great place I found: On top of the wizard spires in GFay. At the right
angle, you can climb all the way up. ( I honestly don't know if this
is true of all wiz spires... ) Tricky part is getting back down, but
it can be done carefully... And the risk pretty much assures that not
many people frequent that spot.
Plenty of places in Neriak.
Lance Berg
mous...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> I guess my question falls more along the line of "Where is your corpse that
> YOU can't drag it back to somewhere safe to loot, yourself?" I mean, I can
> see it being convenient to have someone drag it, but then you would only
> /consent (in the old manner) if you knew the person. Otherwise you'd eat the
> inconvenience and go drag it back yourself.
At quite low levels, its relatively easy to get in a situation where you are
way over your head without knowing it. Particularly if you group up with
someone who seems to know what they are doing, and follow them
into harms way.
At any level, when you don't know an area, it is also quite easy to get
into a bad situation without realizing it. More than once, I've helped
people out by invising them, but that won't work on undead, and
anyway you need an appropriate class/level guy to do this.
There are also places (like blackburrow) where you can accidentally
fall into a place you are incapable of getting out of.
> If it's somewhere that you TRULY can't recover it from (i.e. you were in WAY
> over your head when you died) and you have no friends who can help you do it
> anyway (i.e. nobody that you would have trusted under the old /consent), then
> how likely is it that you're easily going to find someone who would drag it out
> for you now? I guess I just don't understand what type of situation you could
> previously get into where you'd entrust your corpse to a perfect stranger
> except as a last resort type of argument, where it was do that or your corpse
> rots. All the arguments I can come up with of this type make it seem
> detrimental that others can't loot at all, now: if your corpse really was in
> such a dangerous location that a drag wasn't easily achievable, no matter how
> hard you tried, I'd imagine a situation wherein it is much easier to loot
> (some) items than drag a corpse out.
>
Logging on at odd and unpredictable hours, and roaming the world instead
of fighting in one spot for long periods of time, I'm quite often in a situation
where the only people in the zone are strangers, or at best passing acquaintences.
Since it is the "new to me" zone where I'm most likely to get in too deep,
it seems to me this would be a frequent occurrance.
I can count times I've consented or dragged for someone else on the
fingers of two hands (maybe one.) If I could have consented only to
drag, I'd probably have done it twice that often, maybe more; depending
on how eager people turn out to be to help out... it might get to
be a pain. I also never advise anyone to give me consent; don't want
to get them into a bad habit. Now that its drag only, I'll be more
forthcoming with this; its often easy for me to get to places where
relative newbies shouldn't go at all.
Thing is, I can't think of a single instance where I've been asked
to loot someone, nor would I ever think of asking anyone to loot
me. All my armor slots, weapon slots, and container slots are
always full, and I don't even have many slots inside containers
open. To strip my corpse would require a naked character who
was of my class; otherwise it would take several trips. And I'd
not be at all interested in getting just a couple items back; nothing
I have is particularly valuable relative to the rest.
It seems to me that /consent looting is being used pretty much
exclusively for twinking purposes. Despite everything else they
may say about making things safer for us, I'm betting they are
pretty happy about making twinking marginally more difficult
>
> > The ability to strip a corpse of goodies, though, there was a definite
> > gain to be had by the jerk - he'd get your loot.
>
> Just as in PvP, I think there's a huge underestimation of how many people
> "turn" when tempted vs. how many are just naturally jerks. I suppose it's one
> less outlet, so perhaps it will help that way; on the other hand, it's also
> one less recourse if your corpse is well and truly stuck. (And I'm really
> having difficulty imagining how you get your corpse into such a situation in
> the first place, except at *very* high levels.)
OK, so you are swimming across the oot when you get latched onto by a shark
and killed. Astonishingly, your corpse isn't where you died.... it is now down
at the bottom of the ocean. Can you hold your breath long enough to get
to it? To loot it? To drag it across the bottom to where you can? My 26th
level magician can give you enduring breath... but before I got waterstone,
I had swim up high enough that I could probably have done it anyway, while
my lev 14 hasn't done nearly as much swimming, and there is no way.
Pente
la...@pobox.com
>Well something's broken, because this morning I died, then died
>again trying to get to my corpse. I then /consented a friend,
>who went to the first corpse and couldn't drag it.
Nothing broken: that's the way /consent has always worked. When you have
more than one corpse, /consent only applies to the most recent one.
So if you had looted your second corpse, you could then have /consented your
friend again so he could get the first corpse.
>But he died during the attempt(s), and since I was closer to
>where he died than his spawn point, he /consented me and I had
>no problem dragging his corpse to him.
>
>Strange.
Not strange, just the way /consent has always worked when somebody has more
than two corpses. /Consent only applies to the corpse from your last death;
it doesn't affect any older corpses you may have.
Jeff Gajewski
hands of some items. not sure no drop can be picked up this way or not. they
might have fixed it before this, but you used to be able to leave those
items on a corpse and consent someone else to have them.
"Morgan" <mor...@misleading.com> wrote in message
news:39776158...@misleading.com...
> StormeRider wrote:
> >
> > Note from Abashi:
> >
> > http://boards.station.sony.com/everquest/Forum4/HTML/062897.html
> >
> > Please add to this. /corpse will become /drag. That wasn't what we asked
> > for. Dammit.
>
> Actually, it is exactly what we asked for.
>
> Figuring that there was only data on the corpses to record one
> list, we asked that the /consent command give permission only
> to drag and not to loot.
>
Carlo Mosca
news:5vKd5.75745$7I1.1...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com...
> "Dammit, this means my "safe twink" method is gonna be taken away. ;)"
>
> LOL. That really sucks, I do it all the time too = )
>
StormeRider
>
>>Note from Abashi:
>>
>>http://boards.station.sony.com/everquest/Forum4/HTML/062897.html
>>
>>Please add to this. /corpse will become /drag. That wasn't what we asked
>>for. Dammit.
>
>
>
> Change "Tyger" to "half" to email me.
> =^..^=
> "If I go crazy then will you still call me Superman?
> If I'm alive and well, will you be there to hold in my hand?"
> -Three Doors Down
Ack, sorry, was tired from waiting all night for the damn servers to get the
fuck back up... *sigh*
You know what I meant, though. *grin*
/wave
--SR
Dan Harmon
> Great place I found: On top of the wizard spires in GFay. At the right
> angle, you can climb all the way up. ( I honestly don't know if this
> is true of all wiz spires... ) Tricky part is getting back down, but
> it can be done carefully... And the risk pretty much assures that not
> many people frequent that spot.
Oh, geez, thanks a lot for blowing my hiding place =P
mous...@yahoo.com
> mous...@yahoo.com wrote in <_lKd5.3172$Il3....@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>:
>>I guess my question falls more along the line of "Where is your corpse
>>that YOU can't drag it back to somewhere safe to loot, yourself?" I
>>mean, I can see it being convenient to have someone drag it, but then
>>you would only /consent (in the old manner) if you knew the person.
>>Otherwise you'd eat the inconvenience and go drag it back yourself.
> The first things that comes to mind is the tree pit in Blackburrow. People
> start going into BB at about 6th level to hunt up top and, sooner or later,
> wind up falling down that hole deep into the heart of the gnoll fortress.
> They have no idea how to get out or how to get to their body and probably
> couldn't make it unassisted even if they could. I don't know how many
> times I've gone and either helped someone get out or helped them get their
> body out before. This one gets a LOT of people.
This type of stuff is what I figured the applicable situation to be; and it
generally would point to the inference that the majority of scams are being
perpetrated upon newbies. Therefore, while I can understand the frustration,
I don't really see how it makes the overall problem a net gain (except in
the Verant "We don't want to deal with this" CS type manner). Most newbies
don't have irreplaceable stuff (or even hard to replace stuff), and the net
loss is much smaller if they eat a corpse looting. It would seem to me that
the overall effect will be to trade out fewer newbies getting screwed by
/consent scamming to more high levels ending up occasionally losing their
equip to irrecoverable rot.
I guess overall I just don't see the necessity behind the change.. why is it
that people are STUPID when it comes to /consent whereas they wouldn't
generally hand equipment to someone else for them to hold? Again, it points
to the majority of the difficulties being on the newbie level. Ah well,
here's hoping I don't go down somewhere in the middle 20s with nobody around
to pull me out and my bank account depleted to the point I can't afford to
pull a necro away from their soloing.
mous...@yahoo.com
> mous...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
> /consent to loot:
> You can't give someone permission to bring your body to safety
> without giving them access to all your gear. You must utterly
> trust the person not to give in to temptation.
> The most common petition related to this command is a complaint
> to a GM about corpse looting.
Certainly.. I understand the point.. it just seems like it would cease to be
a really big issue early on. Once you're past the first few levels, the
chances of you being able to get yourself so far into trouble that you can't
get out are reasonably small.. or so rediculously insane, that this change is
moot (i.e. You go down in Veeshan's).
> /consent to drag:
> A person must be able to walk from your corpse to the safe spot
> where you are waiting. They cannot just loot it and gate back
> to you. This makes it difficult to retrieve corpses in areas
> that are most easily accessed by jumping into pits.
Or places where the swarms are thick enough that it's difficult to get in..
surely we can think of a few locations where getting there is significantly
more difficult than finding a safe corner in which to loot once there?
> The most common petition is for a corpse that is in a zone you
> can't get into at all. (If you can get into the zone at all,
> you have the option of hiring a Necromancer to cast Summon Corpse.)
> Dragging your body somewhere awful could be done in either case
> but the only motivation for such an action would be to harass you.
> They do not stand to gain anything by hiding your body. The
> motivation for looting your body and keeping the stuff is obvious:
> they get your gear and money.
Again, I understand the evil motivations.. I'm just truly curious as to
whether this is a factor past the beginning levels? And I question the
overall effect that getting everything taken off of your corpse has at the
lower levels (not because it's not horrible.. it is.. but it's been my
experience that the jerk:saint ration is well below unity, so if a poor
newbie loses everything they're likely to be given a helping hand by another
player). I think the overall gain is really only in terms of Verant's CS
department, and I wonder why they were dealing with this in the first place
(or more precisely, how they deal with the conceptually similar "He was
supposed to hold this and trade it to me, but he didn't trade it back"
situations, which I'm sure also arise.)
> Also, with the tools available for recovering bodies, the number of
> cases where "/consent to drag" is inadequate but "/consent to loot"
> would be is tiny compared to the number of consent stealing
> incidents.
This is probably true. I just have a heck of a time coming up with many
where /consent to drag is anything but a luxury in the first place. (And
most I can devise are situations where /consent to drag is woefully
inadequate.)
Billy Shields
: Note from Abashi:
: http://boards.station.sony.com/everquest/Forum4/HTML/062897.html
: Please add to this. /corpse will become /drag. That wasn't what we asked
: for. Dammit.
Since we (apparently) can't have both /corpse and /drag (according
to Abashi) having /consent allow you to drag but not loot is far
preferable to looting the corpse.
Particularly at later levels when you die you'll still need to
loot your own corpse because of the no drop items on it. As
such its not really in your interest to allow other people to
loot your droppable items (most of the time).
I welcome this change.
Carlo Mosca
news:JfNd5.262$sO2....@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com...
Damn, we'll all have to get a spare account now.
Lance Berg
mous...@yahoo.com wrote:
OK, so you've played the game long enough to have some valuable
hard to get loot. You are going to get it back, you've had time to
make connections, so on and so forth. Even if you lose your stuff, you
have an investment in learning the game and so on.
A newbie, on the other hand, gets scammed out of what he
sees as his hard earned valuable stuff... he may decide we are all
a bunch of (deleted,) return his CD to the store, cancel his account...
Its good business to be extra nice to the newbies. By your
mid 20s, well, either you are hooked or you aren't, and anyway,
EB isn't going to take the game back now!
Pente
Lance Berg
la...@pobox.com wrote:
I never knew this, it explains why consent has seemingly failed
a couple times, though. Usually consenting only seems to happen
when a person has tried and failed to retrieve their own corpse,
quite possibly dying, likely in a spot where they can't safely get
that one, either.
Pente
James Hamelin
Agreed 100% these are 2 seperate functions, thus 2 seperate commands
Dragging ones corpse and looting it are another.
Seperate the commands, as the way it should be.
ie: one command to allow others to drag, and one command to allow others to
loot
"Morgan" <mor...@misleading.com> wrote in message
news:39776158...@misleading.com...
> StormeRider wrote:
> >
> > Note from Abashi:
> >
> > http://boards.station.sony.com/everquest/Forum4/HTML/062897.html
> >
> > Please add to this. /corpse will become /drag. That wasn't what we asked
> > for. Dammit.
>
Carlo Mosca
Ken Andrews
>mous...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> > mous...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> > There is more than one kind of jackass behavior. Yes, some people
>> > could use the drag ability to screw you over, just because they're
>> > jerks. However, there isn't much to gain from doing that, except to
>> > demonstrate that they're jerks.
And how many blatant KSsers has that stopped so far? Jerks don't care if
they demonstrate that they're jerks.
>> I guess my question falls more along the line of "Where is your corpse
that
>> YOU can't drag it back to somewhere safe to loot, yourself?" I mean, I
can
>> see it being convenient to have someone drag it, but then you would only
>> /consent (in the old manner) if you knew the person. Otherwise you'd eat
the
>> inconvenience and go drag it back yourself.
One of the things I heard during this most recent patch was someone saying
something about being able, now, to get into Neriak, *because his Factions
got reset*. When I logged in with my Ogre Shaman, I was *very* nervous.
I'm currently bound right beside the Captain at the gnolls in HH, and I
logged off while sitting outside the bank in N Freeport. If my Faction had
been reset as the other gentleman was suggesting, I'd have dropped instantly
into a death bind, with my corpse sitting in a thoroughly unrecoverable
position. Yes, someone could have dragged my corpse to the Zone in N
Freeport. Wouldn't do me a whole heck of a lot of good, though. I'd still
have to make it through W Freeport to get to it. And yes, I do know about
the tunnels. They make it a bit easier; they don't by any means make it
safe.
Being able to have someone loot your corpse for you when you are unable to
get back to your corpse is a *good* thing.
>> If it's somewhere that you TRULY can't recover it from (i.e. you were in
WAY
>> over your head when you died) and you have no friends who can help you do
it
>> anyway (i.e. nobody that you would have trusted under the old /consent),
then
>> how likely is it that you're easily going to find someone who would drag
it out
>> for you now? I guess I just don't understand what type of situation you
could
>> previously get into where you'd entrust your corpse to a perfect stranger
>> except as a last resort type of argument, where it was do that or your
corpse
>> rots. All the arguments I can come up with of this type make it seem
>> detrimental that others can't loot at all, now: if your corpse really
was in
>> such a dangerous location that a drag wasn't easily achievable, no matter
how
>> hard you tried, I'd imagine a situation wherein it is much easier to loot
>> (some) items than drag a corpse out.
I recently helped a newbie Erudite Necro. He'd come all the way from Odus,
then got out of Qeynos and was running through W Karana when he got jumped
by a farmer and stomped into the ground. He was still bound in Odus. I
looted his corpse, then went and waited at the docks in Qeynos until he
could get there. Sure, he didn't have much on him, but it was stuff that
he'd have a hard time replacing, and with the 1/2 hour limit, he sure wasn't
going to make it back in time to loot his own corpse.
>Given that the person dragging your body would have nothing to
>gain by screwing you over, I think you have a lot more options
>with the new command. You can now trust people who offer to
>drag your body to you. Also, more people will offer because
>they know their offer is safe. Previously, I never offered to
>drag bodies for strangers because I didn't want people thinking
>I was trying to scam them.
That's never stopped me from offering. They can always say no. And, "the
proof of the pudding is in the eating". If they accept and I get their
corpse for them, they've learned I'm trustworthy. If they accept and I rip
them off, they've learned that lesson, too.
>If you find yourself in a situation where the corpse is utterly
>unretrievable even with Summon Corpse (e.g. you died on the planes
>and then were reduced four levels due to bind point deaths) then
>you should call a GM to help. The number of people who will find
>themselves in that fix is tiny compared to the number of people
>who were being ripped off by corpse looters.
And the GMs will probably tell you that "the Planes are *dangerous*". Too
bad, so sad, better luck next time.
>> one less recourse if your corpse is well and truly stuck. (And I'm
really
>> having difficulty imagining how you get your corpse into such a situation
in
>> the first place, except at *very* high levels.)
Due to the happy way Verant changes the game underneath you, it can happen
to a low-level character as easily as to a high.
Michael A. Greenly
possible to steal things.
It's an improvement, as long as it doesn't cause every Tom, Dick and Harry
to start wandering into places they don't belong just because they know they
can beg for a corpse drag from strangers.
Michael A. Greenly
an option. There are quite a few no drop items of value in the game!
<mous...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:AWNd5.3192$Il3....@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu...
Justin Shaffer
High... say 45 looted your corpse, word would get around he is a jerk and
such and soforth and he would have a horrible rep. He'd only be able to
group with other jerks, so it would totally mess him up.
<mous...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:_lKd5.3172$Il3....@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu...
> >>easily drag you someplace less safe as anything else. I don't see how
this
> >>helps in any particular matter
>
> > could use the drag ability to screw you over, just because they're
> > jerks. However, there isn't much to gain from doing that, except to
> > demonstrate that they're jerks.
>
that
> YOU can't drag it back to somewhere safe to loot, yourself?" I mean, I
can
> see it being convenient to have someone drag it, but then you would only
> /consent (in the old manner) if you knew the person. Otherwise you'd eat
the
> inconvenience and go drag it back yourself.
>
WAY
> over your head when you died) and you have no friends who can help you do
it
> anyway (i.e. nobody that you would have trusted under the old /consent),
then
> how likely is it that you're easily going to find someone who would drag
it out
> for you now? I guess I just don't understand what type of situation you
could
> previously get into where you'd entrust your corpse to a perfect stranger
> except as a last resort type of argument, where it was do that or your
corpse
> rots. All the arguments I can come up with of this type make it seem
> detrimental that others can't loot at all, now: if your corpse really was
in
how
> hard you tried, I'd imagine a situation wherein it is much easier to loot
> (some) items than drag a corpse out.
>
>
> > gain to be had by the jerk - he'd get your loot.
>
> Just as in PvP, I think there's a huge underestimation of how many people
> "turn" when tempted vs. how many are just naturally jerks. I suppose it's
one
> less outlet, so perhaps it will help that way; on the other hand, it's
also
Olaf
olaf
mous...@yahoo.com
> mous...@yahoo.com wrote:
> A newbie, on the other hand, gets scammed out of what he
> sees as his hard earned valuable stuff... he may decide we are all
> a bunch of (deleted,) return his CD to the store, cancel his account...
> Its good business to be extra nice to the newbies. By your
> mid 20s, well, either you are hooked or you aren't, and anyway,
> EB isn't going to take the game back now!
Most definitely, and I figure this more than anything else is why it was done.
I just was questioning the "The gods have listened to our plea.." type
reasoning. I now turn full ear to listen to the "I lost item xxx because of
this stupid change" rants. Am I the only one who thinks this game is
designed in such a way that an inherent adversarial relationship is formed
between newer and older players?
> Pente
mous...@yahoo.com
> For very many people having, someone loot and return there possesions is not
> an option. There are quite a few no drop items of value in the game!
Certainly.. I just contend that at the point it's not an option, it's also
unlikely some random wandering stranger will be in a position to easily offer
to DRAG your corpse for you too. By this time, your group sense has gelled
(for the most part) and you get a group together (or the group you died with)
to help you go get your corpse. If this is impossible or imfeasible, you, as
Morgan mentioned earlier, hire a necro to summon it for you.
> <mous...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
Morgan
>
> Morgan wrote in message <39777941...@misleading.com>...
> >mous...@yahoo.com wrote:
> >> > mous...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >> > could use the drag ability to screw you over, just because they're
> >> > jerks. However, there isn't much to gain from doing that, except to
> >> > demonstrate that they're jerks.
>
Kill stealers also stand to benefit from their behavior. They get
the experience and the loot. The point here is that there is no
real gain for the person hiding your body.
> >> I guess my question falls more along the line of "Where is your corpse that
> >> YOU can't drag it back to somewhere safe to loot, yourself?" I mean, I can
> >> see it being convenient to have someone drag it, but then you would only
> >> /consent (in the old manner) if you knew the person. Otherwise you'd eat the
> >> inconvenience and go drag it back yourself.
>
> One of the things I heard during this most recent patch was someone saying
> something about being able, now, to get into Neriak, *because his Factions
> got reset*. When I logged in with my Ogre Shaman, I was *very* nervous.
> I'm currently bound right beside the Captain at the gnolls in HH, and I
> logged off while sitting outside the bank in N Freeport. If my Faction had
> been reset as the other gentleman was suggesting, I'd have dropped instantly
> into a death bind, with my corpse sitting in a thoroughly unrecoverable
> position. Yes, someone could have dragged my corpse to the Zone in N
> Freeport. Wouldn't do me a whole heck of a lot of good, though. I'd still
> have to make it through W Freeport to get to it. And yes, I do know about
> the tunnels. They make it a bit easier; they don't by any means make it
> safe.
You have a recourse in that situation. Have someone make you
invisible and drag your body to a safe place to loot.
> Being able to have someone loot your corpse for you when you are unable to
> get back to your corpse is a *good* thing.
Yes, but if we are choosing between two good things: the ability to
let someone else loot your body and the ability to let someone else
drag your body but not loot it, I would rather have the second.
We have a recourse for the unresolvable situations. Call a GM.
Changing the command from "loot" to "drag" reduces the number of
unresolvable situations.
> >> If it's somewhere that you TRULY can't recover it from (i.e. you were in WAY
> >> over your head when you died) and you have no friends who can help you do it
> >> anyway (i.e. nobody that you would have trusted under the old /consent), then
> >> how likely is it that you're easily going to find someone who would drag it out
> >> for you now? I guess I just don't understand what type of situation you could
> >> previously get into where you'd entrust your corpse to a perfect stranger
> >> except as a last resort type of argument, where it was do that or your corpse
> >> rots. All the arguments I can come up with of this type make it seem
> >> detrimental that others can't loot at all, now: if your corpse really was in
> >> such a dangerous location that a drag wasn't easily achievable, no matter how
> >> hard you tried, I'd imagine a situation wherein it is much easier to loot
> >> (some) items than drag a corpse out.
>
> I recently helped a newbie Erudite Necro. He'd come all the way from Odus,
> then got out of Qeynos and was running through W Karana when he got jumped
> by a farmer and stomped into the ground. He was still bound in Odus. I
> looted his corpse, then went and waited at the docks in Qeynos until he
> could get there. Sure, he didn't have much on him, but it was stuff that
> he'd have a hard time replacing, and with the 1/2 hour limit, he sure wasn't
> going to make it back in time to loot his own corpse.
He would have had the same hard time replacing it as he had getting
it. Sure it would be annoying to lose the purses and bat wings,
but it would be the matter of an hour to regain it and he only lost
it in the first place because he was being foolish. He didn't get
himself bound in Qeynos and he didn't leave his precious gear in the
bank while he journeyed. It was very nice of you to help him and
nice that you could, but reasonable precautions would have prevented
the whole incident.
> >Given that the person dragging your body would have nothing to
> >gain by screwing you over, I think you have a lot more options
> >with the new command. You can now trust people who offer to
> >drag your body to you. Also, more people will offer because
> >they know their offer is safe. Previously, I never offered to
> >drag bodies for strangers because I didn't want people thinking
> >I was trying to scam them.
>
> That's never stopped me from offering. They can always say no. And, "the
> proof of the pudding is in the eating". If they accept and I get their
> corpse for them, they've learned I'm trustworthy. If they accept and I rip
> them off, they've learned that lesson, too.
I would not want them learning to trust strangers who ask for consent
to drag their corpse. I always tried to impress on people that they
should be very wary of anyone who asks for consent to loot their
body.
> >If you find yourself in a situation where the corpse is utterly
> >unretrievable even with Summon Corpse (e.g. you died on the planes
> >and then were reduced four levels due to bind point deaths) then
> >you should call a GM to help. The number of people who will find
> >themselves in that fix is tiny compared to the number of people
> >who were being ripped off by corpse looters.
>
> And the GMs will probably tell you that "the Planes are *dangerous*".
> Too bad, so sad, better luck next time.
Yes, to some extent, you are responsible for your own predicaments.
If you run into Hate the moment you hit 46 and die there, you might
have a rough time regaining your level and getting your body back.
If some bug ate your levels, I would ask a GM for help.
--
Morgan
(crossposting all posts to rec.games.computer.everquest)
Morgan
>
> Michael A. Greenly <mgre...@pinenet.com> wrote:
> > For very many people having, someone loot and return there possesions is not
> > an option. There are quite a few no drop items of value in the game!
>
> Certainly.. I just contend that at the point it's not an option, it's also
> unlikely some random wandering stranger will be in a position to easily offer
> to DRAG your corpse for you too. By this time, your group sense has gelled
> (for the most part) and you get a group together (or the group you died with)
> to help you go get your corpse. If this is impossible or imfeasible, you, as
> Morgan mentioned earlier, hire a necro to summon it for you.
Many people group with casual acquaintances or complete strangers
even at very high levels. Check out Lower Guk or Sol B some time.
If you die while hunting in a group of strangers, someone is
probably going to have to drag your corpse to a place where you
can be safely resurrected. That person is probably going to be
one of your group members.
The censure of other players helps protect your corpse from looting
to a certain extent, but if you are holding an extremely valuable
item, some unscrupulous people might be tempted by the plat they
could gain by selling it, or the real world money they could get
for auctioning the item on e-bay.
Verant seems to think that placing some players at the mercy of
others as an exercise in trust is valuable in the game world. The
problem is that some of these mechanisms provide too much reward for
the untrustworthy people who abuse others. I am glad to seem Verant
shutting down at least one avenue for abuse.
--
Morgan
Steve Bougerolle
deha...@bigfoot.com says...
> I'm not bitching, it'll make things a little less convenient, but I think
> that if you're stuck with one or the other, this is the better choice.
> Would be nice if they had the "/consent drag" or "/consent loot" option
> available, however (if no parameters were included, "/consent drag" would be
> assumed).
They DID say that there was a specific problem with people using /consent
then stealing everything from corpses. Given that, and that they only
have storage space for one sort of consent list, what they did was
probably best.
Steve Bougerolle
says...
> There's also that shark pit trap under Qeynos.
What shark pit trap?
There was this annoying fountain in S Qeynos where I drowned once and
lost another three or four corpses trying to get the first one back.
They seem to have fixed something there, or else my new monitor is just
so much brighter that I don't get stuck in it any more, or something,
because it doesn't happen now.
However, I don't recall ever seeing a shark or a shark pit!
Steve Bougerolle
says...
> He would have had the same hard time replacing it as he had getting
> it. Sure it would be annoying to lose the purses and bat wings,
> but it would be the matter of an hour to regain it and he only lost
> it in the first place because he was being foolish. He didn't get
> himself bound in Qeynos and he didn't leave his precious gear in the
> bank while he journeyed. It was very nice of you to help him and
> nice that you could, but reasonable precautions would have prevented
> the whole incident.
It isn't always so easy to get bound in one place or another, and the
endless debate about scum begging for buffs and binds hasn't helped
things any!
It really would be nice if each city had some NPC who could bind people
there for a fee...
Lance Berg
Ken Andrews wrote:
>
> And how many blatant KSsers has that stopped so far? Jerks don't care if
> they demonstrate that they're jerks.
>
KSers have something to gain, so this isn't a comperable situation.
The hypothetical jerk dragger is out only to make enemies, rather
than not caring about making enemies while doing something
for themselves
Pente
Morgan
> > it. Sure it would be annoying to lose the purses and bat wings,
> > but it would be the matter of an hour to regain it and he only lost
> > it in the first place because he was being foolish. He didn't get
> > himself bound in Qeynos and he didn't leave his precious gear in the
> > bank while he journeyed. It was very nice of you to help him and
> > nice that you could, but reasonable precautions would have prevented
> > the whole incident.
>
> endless debate about scum begging for buffs and binds hasn't helped
> things any!
>
> It really would be nice if each city had some NPC who could bind people
> there for a fee...
Oh no, nobody is complaining about scum begging for binds.
I think most people here would gladly bind anyone who needs
it. It's the people who solo because they don't want to
share loot and experience, but then beg for buffs and heals
who are so irritating. And it's the people who expect a druid
to spend a lot of time teleporting them so that they don't have
to walk somewhere. The selfish people irritate everyone.
When I was level 5 or less and exploring a new land, I put
everything I owned in the bank before leaving home. When my
Erudite character left Erudin, she brought mail to Qeynos to
get a few gold so that she would have something to donate for
a bind. Granted a complete newbie would not know about the
mail quest and might not know about banks and binding, but then
losing all your gear at level 3 is a learning experience. I
also did that several times. ;)
--
Morgan
Carlo Mosca
news:MPG.13e3a958d...@news.pacific.net.hk...
The shark pit is on the lower level of Qeynos Catacombs, which you get to be
swimming trough one of the various underwater entrances scattered around the
city.
Dan Day
>I guess overall I just don't see the necessity behind the change.. why is it
>that people are STUPID when it comes to /consent whereas they wouldn't
>generally hand equipment to someone else for them to hold?
Probably because a lot of people didn't realize the dual nature
of the /consent command:
A: Dang it, I died.
B: Tell you what, if you /consent me, I'll be able to drag your
corpse somewhere closer/safer, saving you a long walk and
possibly another death.
A: Really? Cool! Okay!
[Later]
A: Hey, where did my money and best items go??
[Still later]
A: What do you MEAN that if I /consent someone to drag my
corpse, it gives them free access to everything I own??
--
"How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the
plain Meaning of Words!"
--Samuel Adams (1722-1803), letter to John Pitts, January 21, 1776
Tim Smith
>Why? If your corpse goes down in a location where you simply can't get back
>to it yourself, no matter how hard you (and your friends) try, what difference
>unrecoverable in the first place, it has now become completely unrecoverable.
Old way: you can't get to your corpse. You /consent evilbastard so he
can drag it to a safe spot for you. Evilbastard loots your good items
and leaves. You /consent niceguy, and niceguy gets your corpse for you.
You /petition about evilbastard, and hope the GM's will do something.
New way: you can't get to your corpse. You /consent evilbastard so he
can drag it to a safe spot for you. Evilbastard drags it to a worse
spot and leaves. You /consent niceguy, and niceguy gets your corpse for
you.
Note that in the second case, you haven't lost any items.
--Tim Smith
Tim Smith
>If it's somewhere that you TRULY can't recover it from (i.e. you were
>in WAY over your head when you died) and you have no friends who can
>help you do it anyway (i.e. nobody that you would have trusted under
>the old /consent), then how likely is it that you're easily going to
>find someone who would drag it out for you now?
If you are really high level and get in over your head, I can see that
being a problem. But for most of us who are low to mid level, it's not
that hard to find someone a few levels higher who will have no problem
with whatever killed us.
--Tim Smith
Tim Smith
>Well something's broken, because this morning I died, then died
>again trying to get to my corpse. I then /consented a friend,
>who went to the first corpse and couldn't drag it.
>
>where he died than his spawn point, he /consented me and I had
>no problem dragging his corpse to him.
>
>Strange.
I've had things like that happen. Fell down a trap in Najeena and got
killed. I /consent'ed a friend, and he could not drag my corpse. It
said he didn't have permission. Tried a friend of his. Same thing.
Petitioned, and the guide said to log off and on. Still would not work.
The guide said to make sure they tried from different angles and
positions. Still would not work. Guide escalated it to a GM, and the
GM brought the corpse back to where I was.
--Tim Smith
Sean Kennedy
Tim Smith <t...@halcyon.com> wrote in message
news:slrn8nv1g...@king.halcyon.com...
did you have two corpses in the zone?
If so, the later one (I think) needs to be
looted before you can consent him for
the earlier one.
mous...@yahoo.com
Probably true, but even at level 26 I have nothing that would require WEEKS
of more work to get. Same can't be said for high levels. And I've known for,
oh, 22 levels that consenting someone was free reign, so I better be able to
trust them...
> --Tim Smith
Tim Smith
>> I've had things like that happen. Fell down a trap in Najeena and got
>> killed. I /consent'ed a friend, and he could not drag my corpse. It
>> said he didn't have permission. Tried a friend of his. Same thing.
>> Petitioned, and the guide said to log off and on. Still would not work.
>> The guide said to make sure they tried from different angles and
>> positions. Still would not work. Guide escalated it to a GM, and the
>> GM brought the corpse back to where I was.
>
>If so, the later one (I think) needs to be
>looted before you can consent him for
>the earlier one.
Nope, no other corpses in the zone, nor in any other zone.
--Tim Smith
Azmogeddon
mous...@yahoo.com writes
>Certainly.. I just contend that at the point it's not an option, it's also
>unlikely some random wandering stranger will be in a position to easily offer
>to DRAG your corpse for you too. By this time, your group sense has gelled
>(for the most part) and you get a group together (or the group you died with)
>to help you go get your corpse. If this is impossible or imfeasible, you, as
>Morgan mentioned earlier, hire a necro to summon it for you.
>
your corpse is when you are a melee type bound a few zones away, and you
are asking a groupmate to bring your corpse to a 49+ cleric for a
Resurrect.
Most people first came across this in LGuk or SolB, where most groups
won't have a 49 cleric but there are usually one or two around, who will
res if you bring the corpse to them, perhaps in exchange for cash,
clarity etc.
Azmogeddon