EasyQuest
James Hicks
Inny in nadox with a single group and only managed to take him down to 90%
before the showed them the door. Everyone's favorite SK would've been good
for a CR so I went and downloaded LoY, unfortunately the download took an
hour and 20 mins so they got someone else.
Now I have *the* expansion I never wanted to pay for. I'm sure I'll find a
use for it somewhere along the line. Let's see
1) Charm. Already had a blank pop charm with a blank LDoN aug on it. Hmm.
2) Maps: Hated the idea from day one. Travel, the dangers of travel, fear of
getting lost, the actuality of getting lost and needing help from others
used to be part of the whole feel of EQ. EQ has less feel without them. A
map with a "you are here" cursor isn't very medieval fantasy to me.
3) Spells. The LoY SK spells are such that I wouldn't bother buying them
from a vendor, let alone questing them.
4) Zones. Apparrently my guild might be raiding in LoY zones at some stage.
Other than that I haven't heard anything interesting whatsoever.
5) Dyes! My shiny bright white helmet is now more appropriately blood red...
I would never have paid for this service. I don't buy EQ equipment or plat
with real money, why pay to change the colour?
6) some more bank slots to put empty bags in when I get around to it
7) LFG tool nobody seems to use. Hell, turning the old fashioned LFG on is
generally a waste of time...
8) Guild management tool I haven't even looked at yet. Why are we paying for
interface improvements and feature fixes?
Anyhow, that's one thing. The point of today's rant tho, which LoY has a
little to do with, is EasyQuest. Reading the proposed changes for the next
patch, for example the "start with 200 in sense heading", made me come to a
realisation. The real kicker was the bag, and the reasons given for
supplying starting characters with a container.
What I realised is this. Sony has had feedback from users who have *bought*
EQ, started a character, totally not drawn the dots, not seen the pony, not
had a clue what they were doing and quit. Then probably taken the terrible
game back to the store and demanded a refund.
So all of these things...... making travelling so easy that even a
three-second-attention-span videogamer can pull it off.... almost totally
eliminating the getting lost factor.... completely trivialising the
inventory learning curve (not that I recall there being one?)... making the
early game so ludicrously trivial a 6yo child would reach level 10 and
probably much further... seriously trivialising the 5-25 game...
trivialising CR in most of the zones people play in now...
They're changing EQ into EasyQuest. The game anyone can play.
To fit the mood with everything else about now, I'm of two minds on this.
1) This is good. More n00bs buying into the game and starting new characters
means that the death clock on EQ's existence is getting extensions. So the
day where you log in and can't get a group cos only 6 other people are on
your server is further off. Also, n00bs are good cos who else do we show off
our ubah gear to? Who will we rescue from the bottom of dungeons if there
aren't any new players? Oh wait, nobody gets stuck at the bottom of dungeons
anymore.
2) This is bad. The *Best* times I ever had in EQ were before I even had
Kunark. Original EQ.
Me and a bunch of friends started out around freeport (Some us started
further afield but we had a level 30 wizzy friend who ported and bound us
all in freeport so we could play together) and jesus did we ever have a
ball. The wizzy friend also gave me and the pally *fine steel* weapons. I
had a fine steel scimitar, the pally had a fine steel 2h sword. I bought my
first container, and it was a big deal. I showed it off to my friends. They
were jealous.
I started a small business using my Fletching skill. I sold Rough
Hickory Recurve bows to other low levels in the freeport and east commons
area for 3pp each. I made an absolute fortune doing this, and discovered
that sending a polite, personal tell to appropriate potential clients always
got a polite response and about 1/3 bought. Many didn't have the money - I
let them know about plague rat tails and they usually bought within 20mins.
I had a lot of people farming plague rat tails in the newbie zone for me.
Things got even cooler when I moved onto the Elm bows.
We had a terrible time escorting our new Halfling ranger from the
dreaded Kithikor Woods to the commons. West commons were challenging enough,
Kith wiped us repeatedly. Eventually we learned to avoid the night, but we
still got lost. None of us had ever been to eversmile before so we didn't
know where the entrance was, just a vague idea that it was "on the other
side of the forest". The heart pumping terror of that wood is something no
game had previously given me and nothing, not EQ and nothing else has done
since. It also took our Dark Elf cleric some time to work her way out of
Nektulos forest and find the commons. Once there though, we were golden.
We learned to group at Orc1, then moved onto derv camps. But the most
fun I ever had in EQ was when this cute little group wandered Befallen,
which at the time I think had a 10% bonus ZEM not the bigger one it
apparently now has. In terms of experience, it wasn't worth a trip. But we
had loads of fun.
Anyhow, this post is long enough. You probably get the picture... they've
effectively made new characters skip the bits of the game that I enjoyed the
most. That's what I'm getting at :>>
Lance Berg
James Hicks wrote:
> So all of these things...... making travelling so easy that even a
> three-second-attention-span videogamer can pull it off.... almost totally
> eliminating the getting lost factor....
>
> Me and a bunch of friends started out around freeport (Some us started
> further afield but we had a level 30 wizzy friend who ported and bound us
> all in freeport so we could play together)
See here's the thing. Most people just starting out don't have a
level 30 wizard friend to port them around. And the game starts
you out in the farflung corners of the world, unless you all play
a limited set of class/race/religion choices. For a group of
buddies to log on and get together to play, they used to have to
go thru incredible epic effort... and even then, they'd need to
find someone to bind them to their new location.
So they can play together.
They bought a multiplayer game... but they are stuck soloing, or
playing characters they don't want to play, or begging the ultra
high level porters (level 29? OMG, he's a god!) for favors.
Don't get me wrong, I think there's a lot to be said for
difficult travel. And there's a lot of truth in your post.
But on this particular issue, you don't really have much to say,
since you didn't start the game without the travel; that friendly
level 30 wizard took care of it for you.
Bergh
drovar
"James Hicks" <nos...@forme.please> wrote in message
news:3f98fc22$0$23592$5a62...@freenews.iinet.net.au...
> Anyhow, this post is long enough. You probably get the picture... they've
> effectively made new characters skip the bits of the game that I enjoyed
the
> most. That's what I'm getting at :>>
Total nonesense, don't like it, quit. You're whinning the paint off the
walls.
Graeme Faelban
news:3F990C43...@dejazzd.com:
I did start the game without any friends that I could play with, on the
recomendation of a couple of RL friends of mine. They were way too high
level to group with me. Not needing to move to some specific place to
get together with friends, I just started out where I was, Kaladim at the
time with a dwarven paladin. I had an absolute blast with him, finding
places using the nifty cloth map. I drowned him under the freeport
docks, no knowing how to swim yet, but did manage to recover his corpse
after another long boat ride back. That was when I discovered that a
dwarf cannot just run onto the boat at Freeport. I got him up to the
uber level of 12, when I started my Shaman.
Again, I had an absolute blast, I knew a little more about the game
mechanics, leveled up high enough to want to get my Serpent Sight spell
so that I could actually see on my trip from Everfrost back into Halas.
I found out that in order to purchase it, I would have to run all the way
to Oasis on the far side of Antonica. I died twice on that trip, once to
a griffon of some type in North Karana on the way there, and once to a
Highland Lion on the way back (that was when I discovered that there are
mobs that run faster than I do with SoW). I made the trip back to
Freeport again, and on to Faydwer, where I made friends, some of whom are
still friends of mine to this day.
It was definitely a very different game then from what it is now, and, I
do miss that. Part of it, I am sure, was just the newness of it all,
this was the first MMORPG I had played. A lot of it was the feeling of a
vast world out there. That feeling has vanished with the ease of travel.
Personally, I liked it better the way it used to be, boats and all, not
that I am going to quit over the changes, but, I fell saddened by the
loss of what EQ used to be.
--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Venerable Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons
Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 30 seasons
Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 25 seasons
Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons
On Test
Emgraeme, Gnome Wizard of 25 seasons
Ben Sisson
IS his real name) conspiratorially whispered:
His post was far more intelligent than yours.
--
Ben Sisson
1 flask of holy water: $11
1 modified crossbow: $50
1 pointy wooden stake: $1
7 seasons worth of memories of the best show on TV: priceless
Walerwen Sparrowhawk
"James Hicks" <nos...@forme.please> wrote in message
news:3f98fc22$0$23592$5a62...@freenews.iinet.net.au...
> Anyhow, this post is long enough. You probably get the picture... they've
> effectively made new characters skip the bits of the game that I enjoyed
the
> most. That's what I'm getting at :>>
>
>
>
If you don't like the new systems, don't use them. Do you sit on the dock
and wait for the boat from BBM to FP still?
Seriously though, I can see you point to a certain extent...it's irritating
that, after building my characters up, newbies start out with their items
equipped, a backpack, full stack of food, etc etc... On the other hand, if
I feel like starting an alt to play with some friends, I don't want to have
to go put up with all the trivial BS (boats for the most part) just to do
so. A lot of the time savers were put in place as a convenience to the
people who have already gone through the bs, newbies just got the benefit
too.
--
Baron Walerwen Sparrowhawk - Glacier Bear Clan
54th Season Tribunal Soldier of Tunare
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=222134
Empty
> 8) Guild management tool I haven't even looked at yet. Why are we
> paying for interface improvements and feature fixes?
Kunark - ability to level past 50
Velious - new interface
Luclin - new graphics engine and interface
POP - ability to level past 60, nodrop spells with high functionality
LOY - charms, interface upgrades
LDON - Augmentations
Sony has a history of making it unpleasant to *not* buy an expansion- other
people get an advantage that you cannot get.
Hell, I bought Velious at level 20 *just* for the interface.
~Empty
--
'You're not friends. You'll never be friends. You'll be in love till it
kills you both. You'll fight, and you'll shag, and you'll hate each other
till it makes you quiver, but you'll never be friends. Love isn't brains,
children, it's blood... blood screaming inside you to work its will. I may
be love's bitch, but at least I'm man enough to admit it.'
Spike
Tim Smith
Faelban wrote:
> do miss that. Part of it, I am sure, was just the newness of it all, this
> was the first MMORPG I had played. A lot of it was the feeling of a vast
> world out there. That feeling has vanished with the ease of travel.
The newness contributes to the feeling of vastness. I remember on the first
day or so thinking that the trip between the Qeynos gate and the zone to
Qeynos Hills was a long run.
--
Evidence Eliminator is worthless. See evidence-eliminator-sucks.com
--Tim Smith
Graeme Faelban
news:0Acmb.580$RQ1...@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net:
> In article <Xns941E51B5F116Eri...@130.133.1.4>, Graeme
> Faelban wrote:
>> do miss that. Part of it, I am sure, was just the newness of it all,
>> this was the first MMORPG I had played. A lot of it was the feeling
>> of a vast world out there. That feeling has vanished with the ease
>> of travel.
>
> The newness contributes to the feeling of vastness. I remember on the
> first day or so thinking that the trip between the Qeynos gate and the
> zone to Qeynos Hills was a long run.
>
It's not just that. I have created a fair number of alts over time, and
the feeling of a vast world did not dissapear entirely until PoP. Luclin
shrunk it, but PoP made travel so trivial that the world felt much smaller.
Bill Kuykendall
"James Hicks" <nos...@forme.please> wrote in message
news:3f98fc22$0$23592$5a62...@freenews.iinet.net.au...
snip
> ball. The wizzy friend also gave me and the pally *fine steel* weapons. I
> had a fine steel scimitar, the pally had a fine steel 2h sword. I bought
my
> first container, and it was a big deal. I showed it off to my friends.
They
> were jealous.
>
> I started a small business using my Fletching skill. I sold Rough
> Hickory Recurve bows to other low levels in the freeport and east commons
> area for 3pp each. I made an absolute fortune doing this, and discovered
> that sending a polite, personal tell to appropriate potential clients
always
> got a polite response and about 1/3 bought. Many didn't have the money - I
> let them know about plague rat tails and they usually bought within
20mins.
> I had a lot of people farming plague rat tails in the newbie zone for me.
> Things got even cooler when I moved onto the Elm bows.
Oh man, it was like Christmas when someone came to Halas selling bronze
armor. I was rich enough to buy a couple of pieces even though it was one
plat per ac. I had just completed upgrading from cloth and various to all
rawhide too. Wasn't bad for mid teens, heh. Those were the days... Not
even going to start the story on saving up till level 30 for the
executioners axe and showing it off to everyone in the zone. Course this
was Rallos Zek, and in the old days when you could attack level ones, plat
was a might scarce to come by.
Reorth mid 30's Warrior Rallos Zek
btw, he's camped in KC hoping for some of that no drop trash armor we all
ignore on other servers.
Ben Sisson
<wale...@NoSpAmev1.net> (if that IS his real name) conspiratorially
whispered:
>
>"James Hicks" <nos...@forme.please> wrote in message
>news:3f98fc22$0$23592$5a62...@freenews.iinet.net.au...
>/snip
>> Anyhow, this post is long enough. You probably get the picture... they've
>> effectively made new characters skip the bits of the game that I enjoyed
>the
>> most. That's what I'm getting at :>>
>
>If you don't like the new systems, don't use them.
This little dismissal just doesn't wash. The changes affect everyone
globally whether they use them or not - in terms of attitudes, in
terms of where the population goes, etc.
And he's right. The game was better before PoP. Luclin was hit and
miss, but PoK destroyed most of the good that was left. It's a good
thing some of EQ's graces are good enough to still make it tolerable
after the disasterous PoP and LDoN expansions... but its really
starting to sink.
Crash86
> "James Hicks" <nos...@forme.please> wrote in
> news:3f98fc22$0$23592$5a62...@freenews.iinet.net.au:
>
> > 8) Guild management tool I haven't even looked at yet. Why are we
> > paying for interface improvements and feature fixes?
>
> Kunark - ability to level past 50
> Velious - new interface
> Luclin - new graphics engine and interface
> POP - ability to level past 60, nodrop spells with high functionality
> LOY - charms, interface upgrades
> LDON - Augmentations
>
> Sony has a history of making it unpleasant to *not* buy an expansion-
other
> people get an advantage that you cannot get.
You've forgotten probably the biggest reason a lot of folks I know ended up
buying LoY ... the bank slot upgrade.
Crash
brushfire
neglecting how much easier it has gotten at the high end:
- graveyards
- long duration buffs
- mass group buffs
- high ZEM outdoor zones for easy exp grinds
- raid exp
- incredible variety of spells to handle difficult situations
- mounts
- vastly increased mana regen
- charm slot
- armor pieces with +20 to everything, no need to keep or carry resist gear
- Call of the Hero
I don't see much bitching about these capabilities.
Graeme Faelban
news:N6gmb.3759$AU....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net:
Actually I have seen people bitch about various different ones of those
points as well. Not as often I will admit, but people do bitch about it.
They are all examples of how SoE has made the game far easier, including
the various things done for newbies. Personally, I don't like the game
as much now as I did before they started turning the game the direction
it is headed now.
42
> I love all these posts bitching about how newbies have it easier while
> neglecting how much easier it has gotten at the high end:
>
> - graveyards
Graveyards aren't all bad... having to beg another guild to recover your
corpses after a particularly bad day isn't a terribly great 'feature' of
any game. Corpses should end up in the graveyard, although maybe not as
quickly.
> - long duration buffs
People complain about temperance and KEI as destroying the low and mid
games as they distory the players power level too much.
> - mass group buffs
Nothing wrong with these.
> - high ZEM outdoor zones for easy exp grinds
Lots of people complain about (solo) xp grinds being too easy nowadays.
> - raid exp
How is this relevant? Raids have never been about xp... this is a very
minor issue.
> - incredible variety of spells to handle difficult situations
New difficult situations requires new spells and abilities. Otherwise
its not very 'new' and gets old fast.
> - mounts
Hardly unbalancing. Although bards are a little irritated by them...
just as many wizards and druids were irritated by the pok books.
And mounts as a medding convenience... sure... ok... but their outdoor
only... only useful in half the game, and not the most interesting half.
> - vastly increased mana regen
There has been no shortage of people complaining about KEI.
There has been no shortage of mages being irate about being reduced to
modrod summoners at one point.
And I vaguely recall there was some item that was removed from the game,
except for people who already had one, WAY BACK, that people were being
passed-over on raids because they didn't have one... I think it was a
mana regen item actually?? But I was a lowbie back then, don't really
know... someone else surely does though.
People have always complained about vastly increased mana regen.
Having said that, nobody enjoys sitting in one spot for 50% of their
time either... so mana regen isn't inherently a bad thing, although it
does unbalance with respect to pure melees a bit right now.
> - charm slot
Big deal. Whats to complain about?
> - armor pieces with +20 to everyhing, no need to keep or carry resist gear
Mudflation at its best. Personally, however I would like to have seen
the best armours have critical flaws. Like +40 to half resists -40 to
the other half... makes gear more situational; which makes more of it
valuable because there is no 'single best piece'.
> - Call of the Hero
Anywhere it was too useful it got nerfed ;)
Ben Sisson
(if that IS his real name) conspiratorially whispered:
>I love all these posts bitching about how newbies have it easier while
You're new here aren't you.
George B. Eldredge, Jr.
> > - graveyards
>
> Graveyards aren't all bad... having to beg another guild to recover your
> corpses after a particularly bad day isn't a terribly great 'feature' of
> any game. Corpses should end up in the graveyard, although maybe not as
> quickly.
>
i'd like to see it set up so that while the corpse is "resurrectable",
it stays where it was. once that timer is up, the corpse pops in the
graveyard. that way, if you want that exp back, you've got to go get it
instead of waiting 15 minutes. popping that fast eliminates the penalty
of death for the most part.
--
**********************************
-gbe
AFK
> do miss that. Part of it, I am sure, was just the newness of it all,
> this was the first MMORPG I had played. A lot of it was the feeling of a
> vast world out there. That feeling has vanished with the ease of travel.
> Personally, I liked it better the way it used to be, boats and all, not
The game certainly has evolved in the 2 1/2 years I've played and I too miss
certain aspects of game play that have changed. The constant shouts of
items for sale from the tunnel in E. Commons, the excitment that came from
recieving some "great" item to add to my nearly empty inventory by a kindly
"high level" just passing by, the comradery that seemed to develoup between
players grouping together for the first time in a new and unknown zone, and
certainly the excitment/fear of traveling across "vast" zones of unknown
danger for the first ( or sometimes second, third or even tenth time) to
mention just a few.
I can't say that I'd like to give up PoP and go back to the days of hoping a
Druid or Wizzy were porting somewhere in the zone I was curently in so as to
be able meet up with friends in a far off zone though. Or relive the
"thrill" of entering the world for the first time buck naked with a club,
torch, water bag and some biskets wanting to make my way across the frozen
twisted passages of Halas just to be able to die a few dozen times in BB
trying to get to Surfall to "maybe" get a "freebee" port to Freeport to be
able to play with a RL friend who was also a newbee. Often these types of
experiences gave way to frustratrion and fleating thoughts of Doom and Quake
and perhaps finally giving hell level a try or wondering if I'd delated the
nifty little free program called GameSpy from my hard drive.
Certainly there have been some needed enhancments to the game and a few
changes that perhaps shouldn't have been made but the opposite of progress
is.... and very little in this world stays the same forever. One can only
hope thoes who now sit and anxiously wait for the hour or six, depending on
connection type, patching to end so as to begin creating their first
character find equal delight in aspects of the game us jaded "high levels"
have long forgotten or now take for granted. Having just a week ago given
my father-in-law a set of disks, and a years subscription to EQ, I'm pretty
sure the game still holds many of the wonders and thrills newbees have
always come to remember fondly in later years. Our phone convesation last
night convinced me of that. A very long time and dedicated Delabo/DelaboII
player who never had any interest in EQ and was anxiously awaiting a big
patch to that game is now an EQ'er working feveriously on his level 15
Beastloads skills before heading back out to, in his words, "the vast,
confussing and dangerous" zone called the Oasis of Marr to level 16. He
loves it! His friend and also a Delabo die-hard stopped by yesterday
afternoon and my father-in-law showed him EQ while he was visiting. That
was the reason he called my last night. He wanted to know what EQ package
his friend should get since he's going to buy the disks Sat. morning too and
can't wait to start playing!
So regardless of changes/enhancements I think the "newness" of it is still
there for the first time players plus a hell of a lot of fun!
Good hunting
AFK/PST
CharmedFan
<Richar...@netscape.net> wrote:
>It's not just that. I have created a fair number of alts over time, and
>the feeling of a vast world did not dissapear entirely until PoP. Luclin
>shrunk it, but PoP made travel so trivial that the world felt much smaller.
Very true, now being evil is no issue really. The PoP books are always
a safe distance from the cities, I leveled my first evil (hadnt got
the bottle to go evil before) and it was way too easy..
druids and wizzes rarely need to port now making those spells
expensive spellbook decorations and you can pop around the world often
quicker than your friends can keep track..
Tim Smith
wrote:
> If you don't like the new systems, don't use them. Do you sit on the dock
> and wait for the boat from BBM to FP still?
>
> Seriously though, I can see you point to a certain extent...it's
> irritating that, after building my characters up, newbies start out with
> their items equipped, a backpack, full stack of food, etc etc... On the
> other hand, if
I don't think that was his point. I think his point was more that some of
these changes have made the game less fun, even for the newbies. For
example, one of the most fun nights I had in EQ was trying to get a level 2
from Qeynos to Freeport, with only the cloth map as my guide. Now part of
that fun was because I'd only had the game a few days, and so everything was
fun, but I don't think that was all of it.
Someone starting as a newbie today in Qeynos, who decides to go to Freeport
for some reason, can just go through PoK. Sure, they *could* try to run
there like I did, and so the changes don't take that away from them, but
it's unlikely it will ever occur to them that it might be fun, so they'll
take the PoK ports.
Or take run speed. It used to be that camping jboots, while tedious, also
had some fun aspects. There would typically be a few people seriously
camping the AC in SRo, and it would take a week or two to get him. During
that time, you'd become familiar with the ecology of the zone, and also with
the other people doing the camp. It was like a hunt and a stakeout, and
there was a thrill to it. Now people can buy tboots, or get to 50 or 51
(whenever it is AA becomes available) and get runspeed 3. Jboots now are
not important as a travel item--they are only important as an outdoor
instant cast buff protector, and that has greatly diminished the camp. Now,
most times I've gone through SRo, no one is camping the AC. That does make
it easier for someone who wants jboots now, but the camp is no longer a
social thing among several regular campers. It's just not as fun. (I think
they should restore jboots to their former status as an awesome travel item.
Perhaps make them instant cast SOW (so that their speed goes up as your
level goes up)).
Compare to, say, not having to look at the spellbook while medding. Note
that very few people complain about that change, compared to people
complaining about, say, the ports. That's because no one has great memories
of the fun they had staring at the damned book.
Tim Smith
, Jr wrote:
> i'd like to see it set up so that while the corpse is "resurrectable", it
> stays where it was. once that timer is up, the corpse pops in the
> graveyard. that way, if you want that exp back, you've got to go get it
> instead of waiting 15 minutes. popping that fast eliminates the penalty
> of death for the most part.
So basically, if you wipe 3 hours into a raid, you think that to get XP
back, you should have to be able to redo the raid to that point again in 3
hours, except this time you do it naked?
Corpse recovery has always seemed cruel to me in EQ. You've died. That
means there is something there that you were unable to handle. So...make
you go back there again naked?
George B. Eldredge, Jr.
reply_i...@mouse-potato.com says...
of super mario brothers if you can fight to the boss, die, and in 15
minutes essentially start over with only a minimal penalty. death
should carry with it a much larger penalty. if you want to get back the
exp, or to continue playing at the level you were prior to the death,
get a necro, get a cleric, whatever you need to do to get it done.
corpse recovery is an important part of the game...letting corpses pop
outside in 15 minutes reduces it to the point of being trivial
--
**********************************
-gbe
Tim Smith
> Very true, now being evil is no issue really. The PoP books are always a
> safe distance from the cities, I leveled my first evil (hadnt got the
> bottle to go evil before) and it was way too easy..
Evil wasn't hard before, actually (well, at least for Dark Elves...never
tried an Iksar to high enough level to leave Kunark). Being evil basically
just keeps you out of certain old-world cities, but by the time you've left
the newbie area, you don't really need cities that much anyway.
There are some quests that require you to go to specific cities, and that
can be annoying. E.g., the Wizard epic had an important NPC in Halas, which
is annoying.
The spell vendors in Katta are annoying, too...they won't deal with Dark
Elves, even though according to the story of Luclin, they should.
Lance Berg
bizbee wrote:
>
> On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 20:16:54 +1000 in
> <3f98fc22$0$23592$5a62...@freenews.iinet.net.au>, "James Hicks"
> <nos...@forme.please> graced the world with this thought:
>
> I knew there was a problem the day the word (exit) or is it (quit)
> showed up in parentheses on the <camp> button.
How about when they moved the attack button to the letter Q,
which used to be for quit. Or maybe it still is...
Hey, I think I'll take on this orc pawn over here, what button
was that again? Oh no, my screen went black! He must have cast
blind! Hmm, how come now I can see my desktop, what kind of
caster can do that?
Bergh
Jamie Norwood
> I don't think that was his point. I think his point was more that some of
> these changes have made the game less fun, even for the newbies. For
> example, one of the most fun nights I had in EQ was trying to get a level 2
> from Qeynos to Freeport, with only the cloth map as my guide. Now part of
> that fun was because I'd only had the game a few days, and so everything was
> fun, but I don't think that was all of it.
Conversely, I played EQ for about a month after it came out, and one of
the main reasons I quit was the frustration of getting from place to
place. At the time, I didn't have hours upon hours to try to get
somewhere. I heard about PoP and decided to give it a whirl, and it's
much more playable now. Unlike some, I don't consider mindless tedium
fun. I don't feel a great sense of accomplishment in getting my sense
heading to 200; it always suprised me that my character couldn't just
buy a fucking compass. Which exist, and are sold on vendors and given as
quest rewards, and do absolutely nothing.
> Someone starting as a newbie today in Qeynos, who decides to go to Freeport
> for some reason, can just go through PoK. Sure, they *could* try to run
> there like I did, and so the changes don't take that away from them, but
> it's unlikely it will ever occur to them that it might be fun, so they'll
> take the PoK ports.
Just because it was fun for you doesn't mean it is fun for everyone. The
addition of PoP means people who do find it fun can do it, people who
don't, don't have to. Why does the fact that you found it fun mean
everyone should have to do it?
> Or take run speed. It used to be that camping jboots, while tedious, also
> had some fun aspects. There would typically be a few people seriously
> camping the AC in SRo, and it would take a week or two to get him. During
> that time, you'd become familiar with the ecology of the zone, and also with
> the other people doing the camp. It was like a hunt and a stakeout, and
> there was a thrill to it. Now people can buy tboots, or get to 50 or 51
> (whenever it is AA becomes available) and get runspeed 3. Jboots now are
> not important as a travel item--they are only important as an outdoor
> instant cast buff protector, and that has greatly diminished the camp. Now,
> most times I've gone through SRo, no one is camping the AC. That does make
> it easier for someone who wants jboots now, but the camp is no longer a
> social thing among several regular campers. It's just not as fun. (I think
> they should restore jboots to their former status as an awesome travel item.
> Perhaps make them instant cast SOW (so that their speed goes up as your
> level goes up)).
Wow, somehow, I just never saw the appeal of spending three weeks
camping something. A thrill to it? Yeah, ok. You may get a thrill out of
watching plants grow, but again, why should every be subjected to such
insane levels of mindless tedium?
> Compare to, say, not having to look at the spellbook while medding. Note
> that very few people complain about that change, compared to people
> complaining about, say, the ports. That's because no one has great memories
> of the fun they had staring at the damned book.
And I am willing to bet for every good memory, there are two or three
bad stories or people who cancelled over it. But you don't care about
people who don't like things; since they are different than you, you
WANT them to cancel. In your mind, the only person's fun that matters is
yours... I'm suprised you don't spend more time on PvP servers ganking
newbs.
Jamie
42
> In article <MPG.1a03917b3...@news.east.cox.net>, George B Eldredge
> , Jr wrote:
>
>>i'd like to see it set up so that while the corpse is "resurrectable", it
>>stays where it was. once that timer is up, the corpse pops in the
>>graveyard. that way, if you want that exp back, you've got to go get it
>>instead of waiting 15 minutes. popping that fast eliminates the penalty
>>of death for the most part.
>
>
> So basically, if you wipe 3 hours into a raid, you think that to get XP
> back, you should have to be able to redo the raid to that point again in 3
> hours, except this time you do it naked?
Or more likely... not at all. You wait for the corpse to pop, but its
too late to xp rez. You wiped... you died...
> Corpse recovery has always seemed cruel to me in EQ. You've died. That
> means there is something there that you were unable to handle. So...make
> you go back there again naked?
Thats the issue. I agree that *making* you go back is cruel...the
graveyards should exist... but they shouldn't have xp rezzable corpses.
What exactly is the risk of dying at the hi-end game now? Even Quake has
a greater penalty...you're pretty much defenceless while you rebuild
your health, ammo, and amour... vs the new improved eq... where its
corpse pop, rez, loot... and take another run at the raid target.
Lowbies have more to lose from dying then raiders... simply because
lowbies don't have 11 65th level clerics running around behind them. And
what clerics they might have with them have 50% rezzes not 96%...
42
> In article <flvkpv431n0ih46fp...@4ax.com>, CharmedFan wrote:
>
>>Very true, now being evil is no issue really. The PoP books are always a
>>safe distance from the cities, I leveled my first evil (hadnt got the
>>bottle to go evil before) and it was way too easy..
>
>
> Evil wasn't hard before, actually (well, at least for Dark Elves...never
> tried an Iksar to high enough level to leave Kunark). Being evil basically
> just keeps you out of certain old-world cities, but by the time you've left
> the newbie area, you don't really need cities that much anyway.
Evil was a big inconvenience.
Erudite evil was a pain, (pre luclin/pop) They couldn't even go through
erudin safely to catch the boat to qeynos (another KOS city) without
first getting an invis. And other than a port that was the only way off
the continent...
And there was virtually nowhere they could go to sell and bind without
some serious faction work.
Similiarly with Iksar, pre-luclin/pop... being cut out of old world
cities was practically all of the cities, unless you wanted to take a
boat back to Kunark.
Trolls and Ogres too.
In general Melees had it the worst, because they were seriously
restricted in where they could bind. It was often a long trip back to
your corpse/group.
Ben Sisson
<mist...@mushhaven.net> (if that IS his real name) conspiratorially
whispered:
>on Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:27:03 GMT, Tim Smith stated:
>> I don't think that was his point. I think his point was more that some of
>> these changes have made the game less fun, even for the newbies. For
>> example, one of the most fun nights I had in EQ was trying to get a level 2
>> from Qeynos to Freeport, with only the cloth map as my guide. Now part of
>> that fun was because I'd only had the game a few days, and so everything was
>> fun, but I don't think that was all of it.
>
>Conversely, I played EQ for about a month after it came out, and one of
>the main reasons I quit was the frustration of getting from place to
>place. At the time, I didn't have hours upon hours to try to get
>somewhere.
Cry more noob.
>> Someone starting as a newbie today in Qeynos, who decides to go to Freeport
>> for some reason, can just go through PoK. Sure, they *could* try to run
>> there like I did, and so the changes don't take that away from them, but
>> it's unlikely it will ever occur to them that it might be fun, so they'll
>> take the PoK ports.
>
>Just because it was fun for you doesn't mean it is fun for everyone.
Newsflash: EQ is not going to be fun for everyone no matter what.
Better it stays true to what got it in the number 1 spot in the first
place.
> The
>addition of PoP means people who do find it fun can do it, people who
>don't, don't have to. Why does the fact that you found it fun mean
>everyone should have to do it?
Another person who doesn't understand that whether or not you do
something, the fact everyone can changes everything anyways.
>> Compare to, say, not having to look at the spellbook while medding. Note
>> that very few people complain about that change, compared to people
>> complaining about, say, the ports. That's because no one has great memories
>> of the fun they had staring at the damned book.
>
>And I am willing to bet for every good memory, there are two or three
>bad stories or people who cancelled over it.
#1 mmorpg speaks for itself. And of course you're just pulling that
number out of your ass.
> But you don't care about
>people who don't like things; since they are different than you, you
>WANT them to cancel. In your mind, the only person's fun that matters is
>yours... I'm suprised you don't spend more time on PvP servers ganking
>newbs.
Typical irrelevent shot from someone without a clue.
James Hicks
news:slrnbpnvaq....@perath.mushhaven.net...
> on Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:27:03 GMT, Tim Smith stated:
> > I don't think that was his point. I think his point was more that some
of
> > these changes have made the game less fun, even for the newbies. For
> > example, one of the most fun nights I had in EQ was trying to get a
level 2
> > from Qeynos to Freeport, with only the cloth map as my guide. Now part
of
> > that fun was because I'd only had the game a few days, and so everything
was
> > fun, but I don't think that was all of it.
>
> Conversely, I played EQ for about a month after it came out, and one of
> the main reasons I quit was the frustration of getting from place to
> place. At the time, I didn't have hours upon hours to try to get
> somewhere. I heard about PoP and decided to give it a whirl, and it's
> much more playable now. Unlike some, I don't consider mindless tedium
> fun. I don't feel a great sense of accomplishment in getting my sense
> heading to 200; it always suprised me that my character couldn't just
> buy a fucking compass. Which exist, and are sold on vendors and given as
> quest rewards, and do absolutely nothing.
Well, before my sense heading was much good, I *did* buy and use a
compass constantly. I'm not sure what you expected yours to do, but mine
told me what direction I was facing.
> > Someone starting as a newbie today in Qeynos, who decides to go to
Freeport
> > for some reason, can just go through PoK. Sure, they *could* try to run
> > there like I did, and so the changes don't take that away from them, but
> > it's unlikely it will ever occur to them that it might be fun, so
they'll
> > take the PoK ports.
>
> Just because it was fun for you doesn't mean it is fun for everyone. The
> addition of PoP means people who do find it fun can do it, people who
> don't, don't have to. Why does the fact that you found it fun mean
> everyone should have to do it?
Giving yourself completely unnecessary disadvantages isn't fun. I do
have to respect the fact that you didn't enjoy old eq style travel - that's
okay, but you can't tell me current travel is fun either. I still spend
about half my time running, but now the other half is spent looking at a
"loading, please wait" screen as I zone, instead of working WTH I am.
What was fun about travel was the challenge of it, the sense of
achievement, the danger factor. The same things that give me a buzz today
when I stealth from the zoneline in Veksar to nobles without getting agrod.
If that kind of tension isnt fun I don't know what is :)
I don't think he was alledging there was any "Thrill" to it. A "thrill"
is a short term sensation, and I imagine a three week camp resulting in a
near-priceless reward is more an accomplishment and an elite club sort of
thing than a "thrill". And most people never subjected themselves to those
insane levels of mindless tedium. Owning a pair of jboots, amoung other
things, is a badge of extreme patience and persistence, or obscenely good
luck. Or of being on the FV server and having a lot of money.
> > Compare to, say, not having to look at the spellbook while medding.
Note
> > that very few people complain about that change, compared to people
> > complaining about, say, the ports. That's because no one has great
memories
> > of the fun they had staring at the damned book.
>
> And I am willing to bet for every good memory, there are two or three
> bad stories or people who cancelled over it. But you don't care about
> people who don't like things; since they are different than you, you
> WANT them to cancel. In your mind, the only person's fun that matters is
> yours... I'm suprised you don't spend more time on PvP servers ganking
> newbs.
I find this paragraph ridiculous to the point where it's barely worth
responding to. It's clearly a fallacious conclusion but I can't offhand pick
the category, does anyone know how to say "fucking insane" in latin?
But seriously, yes EQ produces good and bad times, and always had. The
bad things teach you lessons (EQ teaches fewer lessons nowadays though) and
make you appreciate the good things.
> Jamie
Davian
"42" <us...@example.net> wrote in message
news:LRVmb.190986$9l5.146123@pd7tw2no...
> Tim Smith wrote:
> > In article <MPG.1a03917b3...@news.east.cox.net>, George B
Eldredge
> > , Jr wrote:
> >
> >>i'd like to see it set up so that while the corpse is "resurrectable",
it
> >>stays where it was. once that timer is up, the corpse pops in the
> >>graveyard. that way, if you want that exp back, you've got to go get it
> >>instead of waiting 15 minutes. popping that fast eliminates the penalty
> >>of death for the most part.
> >
> >
> > So basically, if you wipe 3 hours into a raid, you think that to get XP
> > back, you should have to be able to redo the raid to that point again in
3
> > hours, except this time you do it naked?
>
> Or more likely... not at all. You wait for the corpse to pop, but its
> too late to xp rez. You wiped... you died...
>
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't raid much. Wipeouts happen,
even to experienced raiding forces. A 3 hour wait for corpses to appear at
the zone, with every raider taking an unrezed death every time wouldn't make
raiding very much fun.
> What exactly is the risk of dying at the hi-end game now? Even Quake has
> a greater penalty...you're pretty much defenceless while you rebuild
> your health, ammo, and amour... vs the new improved eq... where its
> corpse pop, rez, loot... and take another run at the raid target.
Not counting, of course, the hour and a half to two hours you spent clearing
trash mobs and guards to even be in a position to attack the raid target.
--
Dearic - Level 65 Overlord on E'ci
Talynne - Level 58 Blackguard on E'ci
Ben Sisson
(if that IS his real name) conspiratorially whispered:
>> And I am willing to bet for every good memory, there are two or three
>> bad stories or people who cancelled over it. But you don't care about
>> people who don't like things; since they are different than you, you
>> WANT them to cancel. In your mind, the only person's fun that matters is
>> yours... I'm suprised you don't spend more time on PvP servers ganking
>> newbs.
>
> I find this paragraph ridiculous to the point where it's barely worth
>responding to. It's clearly a fallacious conclusion but I can't offhand pick
>the category, does anyone know how to say "fucking insane" in latin?
I have no idea how to say "fucking insane" in latin but the entire
paragraph is one long non sequitur fallacy, if it were meant as an
argument rather than a pretty pathetic attempt to flame.
Davian
"bizbee" <tub...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:RYYmb.3403$RQ1...@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 02:55:38 GMT in <3F9B3576...@dejazzd.com>,
> Lance Berg <emp...@dejazzd.com> graced the world with this thought:
>
> >
> >
> >bizbee wrote:
> >>
> >
> >How about when they moved the attack button to the letter Q,
> >which used to be for quit. Or maybe it still is...
>
> >
> For the life of me, I can't even figure what the sense was in doing
> that. I learned a long time ago not to attack a merchant, even in
> error. For the first ten levels you keep all your stuff and there's no
> CR now, and if you're still having problems remembering not to do it,
> after ten levels it's time to learn how to remap it. If a player's
> still too dense for that, they deserve to get killed until they <do>
> learn. It's like they're holding peoples' hands now fer chrissakes.
The part thats really amazing me is how many people are throwing a hissy fit
over that. I mean, does it really make a difference what letter the
auto-attack is mapped to when you first start? If it's no big deal at all
to remap it so you don't hit it on accident, then why does it *become* a big
deal that new players don't have to do it anymore?
42
> On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:08:07 GMT in
> <slrnbpnvaq....@perath.mushhaven.net>, Jamie Norwood
> <mist...@mushhaven.net> graced the world with this thought:
>
>
>>it always suprised me that my character couldn't just
>>buy a fucking compass
>
>
> you can. what really surprised <me> is that after years of being
> alive, apparently my character, or anyone else's for that matter,
> never noticed that the sun rises on the same horizon every morning,
> and does the same when it sets on the opposite side of the sky. This,
> along with being able to drown in a river but not be able to forage
> water when I'm swimming are two of the great mysteries.
Actually, in several of the zones you can determine what direction you
are going by the movement of the sky textures. I used to find my way
around by the sky in a number of zones, back when Sense Heading was
North +/- 45 degrees.
42
>>Or more likely... not at all. You wait for the corpse to pop, but its
>>too late to xp rez. You wiped... you died...
>>
>
>
> I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't raid much. Wipeouts happen,
> even to experienced raiding forces.
And deaths happen to low&mid-level players on a regular basis too if
they're doing anything beyond the bland XP grinding in OT, GD, etc...
that is so common.
Just today my 20th level Enc, grouped with a War (19), Mag (20), and Dru
(17) ate a double death (death during a CR [invis dropped near a
tentacle terror]), and lost well over a yellow... a couple hours worth
of xp... with no rez. We didn't have a cleric/pali in our group, and the
zone (Najena) was deserted aside from us. It wasn't the highlight of the
evening.
My high level characters never have to eat that much loss... EVER.
> A 3 hour wait for corpses to appear at
> the zone, with every raider taking an unrezed death every time wouldn't make
> raiding very much fun.
I didn't say the wait for corpses should be 3 hours. I'd be happy for
players to go to the graveyard, click on 'a tombstone' and pop they're
unrezzable corpse out.
If the a raid member dies, and he can be rezzed then its the same deal
we have today. Or if the raid *can* get back to the corpses then its the
same deal we have today.
But...If the raid wipes, and can't get back then they eat a death, and
grab their corpses at the graveyard.
>
>>What exactly is the risk of dying at the hi-end game now? Even Quake has
>>a greater penalty...you're pretty much defenceless while you rebuild
>>your health, ammo, and amour... vs the new improved eq... where its
>>corpse pop, rez, loot... and take another run at the raid target.
>
>
> Not counting, of course, the hour and a half to two hours you spent clearing
> trash mobs and guards to even be in a position to attack the raid target.
Again... this is a reality in the mid-level game too, provided you hunt
in interesting places, and challenge yourself.
It seems odd to me that the penalty for dying at 30th level be
substantially greater than that of dying at 65th.
You've got valid points, and I'm not exactly keen on the idea of a
*deep* planes raid wipeout costing everybody a ton of xp... as a matter
of course... perhaps a whole new line of high level rezzes that are only
partial rez, but can pull the corpse out of another zone...to the player
instead of the player to the corpse.. and give them to necros and
clerics... i dunno ... just thinking out loud...
Davian
"42" <us...@example.net> wrote in message
news:td4nb.195678$pl3.98995@pd7tw3no...
>
> >>Or more likely... not at all. You wait for the corpse to pop, but its
> >>too late to xp rez. You wiped... you died...
> >>
> >
> >
> > I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't raid much. Wipeouts
happen,
> > even to experienced raiding forces.
>
> And deaths happen to low&mid-level players on a regular basis too if
> they're doing anything beyond the bland XP grinding in OT, GD, etc...
> that is so common.
>
Irrelevant. The difference in experience loss, on a time basis, between an
under 40 character and a high 50 or 60's character is so great that the two
don't even come close to comparing.
> Just today my 20th level Enc, grouped with a War (19), Mag (20), and Dru
> (17) ate a double death (death during a CR [invis dropped near a
> tentacle terror]), and lost well over a yellow... a couple hours worth
> of xp... with no rez. We didn't have a cleric/pali in our group, and the
> zone (Najena) was deserted aside from us. It wasn't the highlight of the
> evening.
>
> My high level characters never have to eat that much loss... EVER.
>
The loss of experience for characters at that level can be made up in about
the same time that it takes a high level character to regain the exp from a
rezed death.
>
> It seems odd to me that the penalty for dying at 30th level be
> substantially greater than that of dying at 65th.
>
It's not.
Graeme Faelban
And it takes 10 minutes to regain the lost xp after that 50% rez too.
Graeme Faelban
>
>>>Or more likely... not at all. You wait for the corpse to pop, but its
>>>too late to xp rez. You wiped... you died...
>>>
>>
>>
>> I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't raid much. Wipeouts
>> happen, even to experienced raiding forces.
>
> And deaths happen to low&mid-level players on a regular basis too if
> they're doing anything beyond the bland XP grinding in OT, GD, etc...
> that is so common.
>
> Just today my 20th level Enc, grouped with a War (19), Mag (20), and
> Dru (17) ate a double death (death during a CR [invis dropped near a
> tentacle terror]), and lost well over a yellow... a couple hours worth
> of xp... with no rez. We didn't have a cleric/pali in our group, and
> the zone (Najena) was deserted aside from us. It wasn't the highlight
> of the evening.
Excactly how long does it take you to regain the xp from an unrezzed
death at level 20? My experience has been one, yes one, kill in Paludal
Caverns. I ate multiple deaths with various characters through the teens
and low 20s, and the penalty is a joke. I have eaten several unrezzed
deaths at level 65, and the penalty is much more noticable. Certainly,
most of my deaths at high levels have been rezzed at 90% or higher, which
makes them almost meaningless, but, then, unrezzed death at 20 was
meaningless too.
CharmedFan
<dav...@nospammindspring.com> wrote:
>The part thats really amazing me is how many people are throwing a hissy fit
>over that. I mean, does it really make a difference what letter the
>auto-attack is mapped to when you first start? If it's no big deal at all
>to remap it so you don't hit it on accident, then why does it *become* a big
>deal that new players don't have to do it anymore?
I think the only thing that threw me was the if loading char on a PC
you dont normally play it on it creats you some hot keys and it had
put Melee in the 1st button which I have used to get SH up and is
mapped to left and right.. That and of course it remapping my attack
key to Q not leaving it on A where I was used to it.
No, I didnt die, but, I was rather puzzled that it wasnt done on me as
a lvl 1, it was done to me as lvl 65..
Frank E
>>
>> Seriously though, I can see you point to a certain extent...it's
>> irritating that, after building my characters up, newbies start out with
>> their items equipped, a backpack, full stack of food, etc etc... On the
>> other hand, if
>
>I don't think that was his point. I think his point was more that some of
>these changes have made the game less fun, even for the newbies.
Honestly, I doubt anyone here is capable of judging that. Even
without instant ports, who here couldn't start a newbie on a fresh
server and trivially level up to 60? Boat rides where always an
annoyance for for, God how I hated going LD zoning into Freeport and
being back in OOT after I logged back on. How about loosing a corpse
due to something agroing on you from sister isle? Sorry, I don't miss
wasting 2 hours of my life getting from Freeport to Butcherblock.
I'll also never recreate the thrill of running through Oasis with a
newbie monk in the days when nobody could kill giants, trying to get
to the swamp because I'd heard of those uber magic gloves that dropped
there. The risk is gone to a large extent, but so is the tedium.
Closest I ever came to quitting EQ was an 8 hour CR in Fear. Sitting
at the zone line watching multiple guilds wipe trying to get our
corpses had me seriously questioning whether I wanted to keep wasting
time on EQ.
Is it too easy now? Probably, but I think it's a good thing. It
doesn't bother me that people are 65 in a couple of months now while
it took me over 3 years to get there. I haven't lost anything by
enjoying the trip but people joining EQ now will never have that trip
no matter what. Too many of us are uber and experienced with the game
mechanics for that to be possible again. At least this way, if a
friends joins EQ, they have a realistic chance of actually getting to
be high enough level to group with me. Only downside is that now I
have to teach them how to play once they get to 65. <g>
Rgds, Frank
Frank E
<nos...@forme.please> wrote:
> The same things that give me a buzz today
>when I stealth from the zoneline in Veksar to nobles without getting agrod.
>If that kind of tension isnt fun I don't know what is :)
Oh please! ... any SK that can't do that in his sleep is an idiot! :p
Davian
"CharmedFan" <nos...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:tigqpv4c33jhq6ogt...@4ax.com...
Oh, I agree that it is stupid of them to have changed all existing
characters... but thats not the complaint that I'm usually hearing. I'm
hearing "This has made the game too easy for newbies! All the challenge for
them is gone."
azqaz
> Tim Smith wrote:
>
> > In article <flvkpv431n0ih46fp...@4ax.com>, CharmedFan wrote:
> >
> >>Very true, now being evil is no issue really. The PoP books are always a
> >>safe distance from the cities, I leveled my first evil (hadnt got the
> >>bottle to go evil before) and it was way too easy..
> >
> >
> > Evil wasn't hard before, actually (well, at least for Dark Elves...never
> > tried an Iksar to high enough level to leave Kunark). Being evil basically
> > just keeps you out of certain old-world cities, but by the time you've left
> > the newbie area, you don't really need cities that much anyway.
>
> Evil was a big inconvenience.
>
> Erudite evil was a pain, (pre luclin/pop) They couldn't even go through
> erudin safely to catch the boat to qeynos (another KOS city) without
> first getting an invis. And other than a port that was the only way off
> the continent...
My erudite necro never seemed KOS in erudin, but was in qeynos. all
you had to do was swim to the sewer entrance and go through the sewers
to the fron of qeynos, and you bound there. I was apprehensive to the
bloodsabers.
>
> And there was virtually nowhere they could go to sell and bind without
> some serious faction work.
>
> Similiarly with Iksar, pre-luclin/pop... being cut out of old world
> cities was practically all of the cities, unless you wanted to take a
> boat back to Kunark.
>
> Trolls and Ogres too.
>
> In general Melees had it the worst, because they were seriously
> restricted in where they could bind. It was often a long trip back to
> your corpse/group.
My worst problem with evil characters was trying to get an Inkie
cleric through HHK. The gnolls hate you, the orcs hate you, and the
citizens hate you. You could take the southern route, but it was
lOOOOOOOng. My best bet was always to wait at the entrance and beg an
invis from a druid or enchie.
I still remember SKs and necros begging food from group members
because it was too time consuming to run back to the one city that
would sell to you.
42
>
> My erudite necro never seemed KOS in erudin, but was in qeynos. all
> you had to do was swim to the sewer entrance and go through the sewers
> to the fron of qeynos, and you bound there. I was apprehensive to the
> bloodsabers.
My Eru SK sure was. I got charmed by an NPC enchanter while running
through once with 2 other sks, and spent a full 5 minutes not in control
of my character... and worse this is after she used me (and her
animation pet) to waste another sk, and then charmed the last one too...
(3 pets! damn npcs). She eventually let us go, but nuked me to death
before i coudl zone.
Fortunately, I had managed to get out of aggro range and was able to
pick up my corpse.
>>And there was virtually nowhere they could go to sell and bind without
>>some serious faction work.
>>
>>Similiarly with Iksar, pre-luclin/pop... being cut out of old world
>>cities was practically all of the cities, unless you wanted to take a
>>boat back to Kunark.
>>
>>Trolls and Ogres too.
>>
>>In general Melees had it the worst, because they were seriously
>>restricted in where they could bind. It was often a long trip back to
>>your corpse/group.
>
>
> My worst problem with evil characters was trying to get an Inkie
> cleric through HHK.
The gnolls hate you, the orcs hate you, and the
> citizens hate you. You could take the southern route, but it was
> lOOOOOOOng. My best bet was always to wait at the entrance and beg an
> invis from a druid or enchie.
I usually went around HHK... SK, Lake Rathe, Rathe Mountains, Feerott,
Swamp, Deserts... didn't seem in character to beg for invis, I'm
guessing that's what you meant by the southern route?
> I still remember SKs and necros begging food from group members
> because it was too time consuming to run back to the one city that
> would sell to you.
Yup.
42
> 42 <us...@example.net> wrote in news:td4nb.195678$pl3.98995@pd7tw3no:
>
>
>>>>Or more likely... not at all. You wait for the corpse to pop, but its
>>>>too late to xp rez. You wiped... you died...
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't raid much. Wipeouts
>>>happen, even to experienced raiding forces.
>>
>>And deaths happen to low&mid-level players on a regular basis too if
>>they're doing anything beyond the bland XP grinding in OT, GD, etc...
>>that is so common.
>>
>>Just today my 20th level Enc, grouped with a War (19), Mag (20), and
>>Dru (17) ate a double death (death during a CR [invis dropped near a
>>tentacle terror]), and lost well over a yellow... a couple hours worth
>>of xp... with no rez. We didn't have a cleric/pali in our group, and
>>the zone (Najena) was deserted aside from us. It wasn't the highlight
>>of the evening.
>
>
> Excactly how long does it take you to regain the xp from an unrezzed
> death at level 20?
Couldn't say 'exactly', I rarely have the presence of mind to check my
xp bar immediately before dying.
However, I can say that I am a full level behind the Mage now. Due to
several unrezzed deaths, and that represents quite a bit of time to
catch up... unless I go find a PL-group somewhere like PC... and I
really don't care to waste an hour or so doing that.
> My experience has been one, yes one, kill in Paludal
> Caverns.
>I ate multiple deaths with various characters through the teens
> and low 20s, and the penalty is a joke. I have eaten several unrezzed
> deaths at level 65, and the penalty is much more noticable.
Oh for sure! No doubt about it.
> Certainly,
> most of my deaths at high levels have been rezzed at 90% or higher, which
> makes them almost meaningless, but, then, unrezzed death at 20 was
> meaningless too.
I actually agree. I realized at the end of my post that putting a raid
through a 0-xp death for a wipe was too great a penalty. But a 96% rez
at 65 is more meaningless than a 0% rez at twenty... or a 30% xp rez at
40 (which is what my bard currently usually gets from the Pali he plays
with). Basically... I think that I think the 90,93,96% rezzes were a
mistake entirely... maybe they should never have gone over 85ish. With
maybe a Pali like LoH rez that fires once an hour or so at max for
96-100%...
Graeme Faelban
> Graeme Faelban wrote:
>
>> 42 <us...@example.net> wrote in news:td4nb.195678$pl3.98995@pd7tw3no:
>>
>>
>>>>>Or more likely... not at all. You wait for the corpse to pop, but
>>>>>its too late to xp rez. You wiped... you died...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't raid much. Wipeouts
>>>>happen, even to experienced raiding forces.
>>>
>>>And deaths happen to low&mid-level players on a regular basis too if
>>>they're doing anything beyond the bland XP grinding in OT, GD, etc...
>>>that is so common.
>>>
>>>Just today my 20th level Enc, grouped with a War (19), Mag (20), and
>>>Dru (17) ate a double death (death during a CR [invis dropped near a
>>>tentacle terror]), and lost well over a yellow... a couple hours
>>>worth of xp... with no rez. We didn't have a cleric/pali in our
>>>group, and the zone (Najena) was deserted aside from us. It wasn't
>>>the highlight of the evening.
>>
>>
>> Excactly how long does it take you to regain the xp from an unrezzed
>> death at level 20?
>
> Couldn't say 'exactly', I rarely have the presence of mind to check my
> xp bar immediately before dying.
>
> However, I can say that I am a full level behind the Mage now. Due to
> several unrezzed deaths, and that represents quite a bit of time to
> catch up... unless I go find a PL-group somewhere like PC... and I
> really don't care to waste an hour or so doing that.
Well, as a Necro, you can solo easilly. And at level 20, it takes one
kill in Paludal Caverns of a dark blue mob. You can literally make up
the death xp loss faster by just being bound nearby, and going back to
killing than by getting rezzed and waiting for rez effects to wear off
and to get your mana back.
That's what I did with my druid, my enchanter, and with my ranger. They
all went through the teens and low 20s soloing in Paludal Caverns, far
away from the bandit crowds.
James Hicks
news:knOdP1AORSDAfznxdcfq8j6y=g...@4ax.com...
I don't recall implying that it's difficult... or even an ubah
achievment. I just said it gives me a buzz. Both kinds of invis are on
random timers and you never know when one is going to drop on you and create
"a situation".
Not as dangerous as it used to be in my late 50's when I barely knew the
way, but it's still cool. Is that alright with you?
drovar
"Ben Sisson" <ilkhanik...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:96eopvgl5n1haitcv...@4ax.com...
> From the shadows, the mysterious Jamie Norwood
> <mist...@mushhaven.net> (if that IS his real name) conspiratorially
> whispered:
>
> >on Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:27:03 GMT, Tim Smith stated:
> >> I don't think that was his point. I think his point was more that some
of
> >> these changes have made the game less fun, even for the newbies. For
> >> example, one of the most fun nights I had in EQ was trying to get a
level 2
> >> from Qeynos to Freeport, with only the cloth map as my guide. Now part
of
> >> that fun was because I'd only had the game a few days, and so
everything was
> >> fun, but I don't think that was all of it.
> >
> >Conversely, I played EQ for about a month after it came out, and one of
> >the main reasons I quit was the frustration of getting from place to
> >place. At the time, I didn't have hours upon hours to try to get
> >somewhere.
>
> Cry more noob.
His post was far more intelligent than yours.
CharmedFan
<dav...@nospammindspring.com> wrote:
>Oh, I agree that it is stupid of them to have changed all existing
>characters... but thats not the complaint that I'm usually hearing. I'm
>hearing "This has made the game too easy for newbies! All the challenge for
>them is gone."
I think we do look back and feel a lot of the fun of learning isnt
there, it is kind of handed to you on a plate, they now get a "read
the message in your inventory and hand it to me" message, they get
their spells pre-mem'd they get hot keys premade, their weapon is auto
equip'd
They've also added a huge amount at the high end, now I finally have a
65 of course Im semi glad otherwise Id be probably cursing the fact
that I could only have got to 60 with endless months in the older
zones where in fact you go to Valor or HoH and it doesnt take so long.
I think there are many styles of playing EQ. Some want to get 65 asap,
(remember the 65 cleric with epic in around 36 hours?), some love
questing, some dont, some tradeskill some dont..
I look back and a lot of what really facinated me about eq was the
challenges, such as the FP->Qeynos run, (in the dark no sow, no
reliable map, no nothing), spending what seemed like weeks on orc
hill, the months it seemed in crushbone. That ubber feeling of finally
having a peice of armor even cloth in every slot! The thought going
into waying up which spells I could afford and which order to buy them
in
I remember feeling scared to zone to places Id never been because it
probably meant a long long ride somewhere. I also remember the feeling
of awe of anyone 50+ as they were god like, Id never have dreamed of
sending the tells I seem to get "d00d give me yr plat" .....
Jennaii
>the main reasons I quit was the frustration of getting from place to
>place. At the time, I didn't have hours upon hours to try to get
>somewhere.
When you were new, where were you in a hurry to go?
>In your mind, the only person's fun that matters is
>yours... I'm suprised you don't spend more time on PvP servers ganking
>newbs.
>
>Jamie
What brought that on?
I'm guessing you are one of the *hurry hurry hurry* guys that stand in front of
me jumping up and down yelling "SOW PLZ"???
"This time: gonna do it RIGHT!" -- Bob Seger
Jennaii
Jennaii
>His post was far more intelligent than yours.
>
>
>
No it wasn't.
Frank E
<nos...@forme.please> wrote:
> I don't recall implying that it's difficult... or even an ubah
>achievment. I just said it gives me a buzz. Both kinds of invis are on
>random timers and you never know when one is going to drop on you and create
>"a situation".
Sorry, wasn't trying to put you down or anything but the last SK that
told told me what a rush it was to get through Veksar managed to train
us up in the 'remains' camp. ... since then I much prefer the ones
that consider it trivial <g>.
I don't want to state the obvious but but since you mentioned random
duration invis ... If you're on an old enough server. a pre-nerf
circlet of shadows would make that a non-issue for regular invis.
> Not as dangerous as it used to be in my late 50's when I barely knew the
>way, but it's still cool. Is that alright with you?
An SK I often grouped with at nobles back when we were farming them
for spell money used to single pull any named that was up to
highborns. Now _that_ always impressed the hell out of me. He'd
somehow get the mob to the main CY and have it push him through the
fence to us. Not sure if that's even still possible though, back
then you could cast through the fences,
Rgds, Frank
Mike Shea
main stream. The interface and game mechanics shouldn't be challenging.
The things they've made easier help people learn how to play and have
fun. I started playing over three years ago on Quellious when no one
could bind, port, or res. I am glad I learned how I learned, but I am
also glad that people can start now and not have to go through all the
pain I went through. It wasn't all necessary.
The game itself should be challenging. Finding, pulling, and beating on
an orc without getting an add on you should be challenging. Battling
your way through the lost dungeons should be challenging. Hitting that
"sense heading" hotkey five thousand times doesn't make the game more fun.
Mike
James Hicks
> >achievment. I just said it gives me a buzz. Both kinds of invis are on
> >random timers and you never know when one is going to drop on you and
create
> >"a situation".
>
> Sorry, wasn't trying to put you down or anything but the last SK that
> told told me what a rush it was to get through Veksar managed to train
> us up in the 'remains' camp. ... since then I much prefer the ones
> that consider it trivial <g>.
Hmm well being an SK if you get into trouble the procedure is to find a
spot out of agro range on any spawn and feign...
Nobles/remains is my favorite camp there, because you can hold down so
many placeholders from the one spot. It's also (for some odd reason)
apparently quite unpopular. I can't recall a time when we've zoned into
veksar and someone else had been camping it.
> I don't want to state the obvious but but since you mentioned random
> duration invis ... If you're on an old enough server. a pre-nerf
> circlet of shadows would make that a non-issue for regular invis.
It's not really an issue anyway, I rarely have trouble due to invis
dropping and when I do its easily dealt with. I've never died on my way
through veksar although people I've been trying to escort have. The IVU I
can cast on others is a random timer pita type.
> > Not as dangerous as it used to be in my late 50's when I barely knew
the
> >way, but it's still cool. Is that alright with you?
>
> An SK I often grouped with at nobles back when we were farming them
> for spell money used to single pull any named that was up to
> highborns. Now _that_ always impressed the hell out of me. He'd
> somehow get the mob to the main CY and have it push him through the
> fence to us. Not sure if that's even still possible though, back
> then you could cast through the fences,
I have *no* idea how you could single pull any named that was up to
highborns. Aside from the few available at that camp, I can't think of one
that wouldn't bring a couple of adds.....
> Rgds, Frank
Frank E
<nos...@forme.please> wrote:
> Nobles/remains is my favorite camp there, because you can hold down so
>many placeholders from the one spot. It's also (for some odd reason)
>apparently quite unpopular. I can't recall a time when we've zoned into
>veksar and someone else had been camping it.
Move along folks, nothing to see here. It's a really, really horrible
camp! <g>
>
>> I don't want to state the obvious but but since you mentioned random
>> duration invis ... If you're on an old enough server. a pre-nerf
>> circlet of shadows would make that a non-issue for regular invis.
>
> It's not really an issue anyway, I rarely have trouble due to invis
>dropping and when I do its easily dealt with.
Think of it as a pulling tool, an insta-click invis you can cast while
on the run. Of the SKs and necros that I know with one, I doubt they'd
take 100k for theirs if they knew they couldn't get a replacement.
>I've never died on my way
>through veksar although people I've been trying to escort have. The IVU I
>can cast on others is a random timer pita type.
Yeah, it gets better once your groups get used to the place. There's
always a spot where mobs won't agro within easy reach if you see IVU
start to blink.
>>
>> An SK I often grouped with at nobles back when we were farming them
>> for spell money used to single pull any named that was up to
>> highborns. Now _that_ always impressed the hell out of me. He'd
>> somehow get the mob to the main CY and have it push him through the
>> fence to us. Not sure if that's even still possible though, back
>> then you could cast through the fences,
>
> I have *no* idea how you could single pull any named that was up to
>highborns. Aside from the few available at that camp, I can't think of one
>that wouldn't bring a couple of adds.....
Do SKs get an AA ability with instacast IVU? If so, combine that with
a CoS and I could see it. Snare and feign to split off the named on
the original pull, invis (or IVU) past everything else as you walk the
mob to camp? I've never really asked how they do it, but damn it's
impressive when I do see it <g>. Admittedly, they only seem to do it
in places like Veksar and Droga where mobs don't see invis. Never seen
em do it in Sebilis for example. There's a reason why I've long
considered SKs the best pullers for exp groups.
Rgds, Frank
James Hicks
> >highborns. Aside from the few available at that camp, I can't think of
one
> >that wouldn't bring a couple of adds.....
>
> Do SKs get an AA ability with instacast IVU? If so, combine that with
> a CoS and I could see it. Snare and feign to split off the named on
> the original pull, invis (or IVU) past everything else as you walk the
> mob to camp? I've never really asked how they do it, but damn it's
> impressive when I do see it <g>. Admittedly, they only seem to do it
> in places like Veksar and Droga where mobs don't see invis. Never seen
> em do it in Sebilis for example. There's a reason why I've long
> considered SKs the best pullers for exp groups.
>
> Rgds, Frank
you mean if you're invis but a mob has agro on you, you wont get adds?
Never thought of that before!
Graeme Faelban
news:3f9fe531$0$1730$5a62...@freenews.iinet.net.au:
>> > I have *no* idea how you could single pull any named that was up
>> > to highborns. Aside from the few available at that camp, I can't
>> > think of one that wouldn't bring a couple of adds.....
>>
>> Do SKs get an AA ability with instacast IVU? If so, combine that with
>> a CoS and I could see it. Snare and feign to split off the named on
>> the original pull, invis (or IVU) past everything else as you walk
>> the mob to camp? I've never really asked how they do it, but damn
>> it's impressive when I do see it <g>. Admittedly, they only seem to
>> do it in places like Veksar and Droga where mobs don't see invis.
>> Never seen em do it in Sebilis for example. There's a reason why I've
>> long considered SKs the best pullers for exp groups.
>
> you mean if you're invis but a mob has agro on you, you wont get
> adds?
> Never thought of that before!
>
Yep, that's one more reason why a ranger with the right AAs makes an
amazing puller in zones with mostly live mobs.
Frank E
<nos...@forme.please> wrote:
> you mean if you're invis but a mob has agro on you, you wont get adds?
>Never thought of that before!
I'm pretty sure that's how it works, based on 2nd hand info.
Lance Berg
Yep, and although SK using an item so powerful it was nerfed to
no longer drop in the game can make excellent use of this, other
classes can use this feature as well. Any invis will work, it
doesn't -have- to be insta click... if you can arrange to aggro a
mob and still have time to invis yourself before he gets to you,
say by rooting it in place, then you can waltz past any number of
mobs that can't see you and they won't add even though their
buddy is hot on your tail. High level rogues (who don't suffer
massive movement penalties) are arguably better at this than any
SK, since their invis works on live and dead alike.
Even a level one warrior could use this trick, though, by use of
Cloudy Potions, which are insta click one shot invis potions.
Bergh
Graeme Faelban
news:3F9FF844...@dejazzd.com:
And don't forget Rangers who get an instaCamo AA.
James Grahame
Fact for your pulling pleasure: a mob with secondary aggro (you haven't
engaged it, it aggro'ed off another mob being aggro'ed) does not spread
aggro. This is how people who are non-KOS can pull King all the way to zone
in Chardok. Pacify his guards, mez/root a mob beside him so the King has
secondary aggro and not primary aggro, and run like hell for zone keeping
him outside aggro range but inside chase radius. Well, you need a rogue to
keep doors open, too. ;-) You can use invis in much the same way.
James
John Henders
>> Corpse recovery has always seemed cruel to me in EQ. You've died. That
>> means there is something there that you were unable to handle. So...make
>> you go back there again naked?
>>
>>
>thats exactly what i mean. it might suck, but it turns it into a level
>of super mario brothers if you can fight to the boss, die, and in 15
>minutes essentially start over with only a minimal penalty. death
>should carry with it a much larger penalty. if you want to get back the
>exp, or to continue playing at the level you were prior to the death,
>get a necro, get a cleric, whatever you need to do to get it done.
>corpse recovery is an important part of the game...letting corpses pop
>outside in 15 minutes reduces it to the point of being trivial
Summon corpse has been in the game over 2 years. All graveyards have
done for raiding guilds is eliminate the plat sink. As any zone with a
graveyard is currently at least a 40+ zone, it's only eliminated having
to find a necro or sk who's willing to come and summon your corpse. Why
weren't people as upset when the summon corpse spell went in as they are
over graveyards?
--
Artificial Intelligence stands no chance against Natural Stupidity.
GAT d- -p+(--) c++++ l++ u++ t- m--- W--- !v
b+++ e* s-/+ n-(?) h++ f+g+ w+++ y*
John Henders
>How about when they moved the attack button to the letter Q,
>which used to be for quit. Or maybe it still is...
>Hey, I think I'll take on this orc pawn over here, what button
>was that again? Oh no, my screen went black! He must have cast
>blind! Hmm, how come now I can see my desktop, what kind of
>caster can do that?
Q has never been quit. /q was, and (way) earlier, so was /e. /e used to
cause a lot of problems for people who used /r to reply to tells and
missed.
In actual fact, through most of beta, x was attack. It was only moved to
a in beta 4 and beyond. It was also remappable all the way back to beta
4 and I still boggle at people who actually continued to use a for
attack once they found out it could be remapped. Having come from UO,
where you didn't have to hit return to start chatting, the first thing I
did when I started in EQ was remap every significant key off the
alphabetical part of the keyboard so I didn't get unexpected results
when I'd forget to hit enter before trying to talk to people.
Now the worst that can happen is I accidently open my inventory window
when I hit backspace.
John Henders
>Tim Smith wrote:
>> In article <MPG.1a03917b3...@news.east.cox.net>, George B Eldredge
>> , Jr wrote:
>>
>>>i'd like to see it set up so that while the corpse is "resurrectable", it
>>>stays where it was. once that timer is up, the corpse pops in the
>>>graveyard. that way, if you want that exp back, you've got to go get it
>>>instead of waiting 15 minutes. popping that fast eliminates the penalty
>>>of death for the most part.
>>
>>
>> So basically, if you wipe 3 hours into a raid, you think that to get XP
>> back, you should have to be able to redo the raid to that point again in 3
>> hours, except this time you do it naked?
>Or more likely... not at all. You wait for the corpse to pop, but its
>too late to xp rez. You wiped... you died...
So after 2-3 hours of working your 35 man raid to the boss mob, the raid
wipes because a couple of essential people happened to go link dead when
the fight started, and you want to penalize the other 33 people not
only by making that 2-3 hours a complete waste of time but by making
them take an unrezzable death as well.
>> Corpse recovery has always seemed cruel to me in EQ. You've died. That
>> means there is something there that you were unable to handle. So...make
>> you go back there again naked?
>Thats the issue. I agree that *making* you go back is cruel...the
>graveyards should exist... but they shouldn't have xp rezzable corpses.
>What exactly is the risk of dying at the hi-end game now? Even Quake has
>a greater penalty...you're pretty much defenceless while you rebuild
>your health, ammo, and amour... vs the new improved eq... where its
>corpse pop, rez, loot... and take another run at the raid target.
Erm, bullshit. The penalty is the most precious thing we have, time.
Maybe you put little value on yours but when a raid target in high level
PoP zones requires 72 people, a wipe out isnt a matter of cr in the
graveyard and right back to trying again. Between people logging and
needing replacement, rebuffing and getting back to the target, it's
several hours already before you're going to get another chance, and
that's if another guild hasn't already moved in and killed it while you
were waiting for the graveyard to pop. Even an all corpse to the
graveyard wipe is a serious pain in the ass on a high level raid as I'm
sure Monuel and others will attest. Guilds make every effort to get a
cleric camped just to avoid this so called trivialized penalty.
Especially when a few LD's can cause the other 70 people to waste an
hour or so of their time through absolutely no fault of their own.
John Henders
>I'll also never recreate the thrill of running through Oasis with a
>newbie monk in the days when nobody could kill giants, trying to get
>to the swamp because I'd heard of those uber magic gloves that dropped
>there. The risk is gone to a large extent, but so is the tedium.
>Closest I ever came to quitting EQ was an 8 hour CR in Fear. Sitting
>at the zone line watching multiple guilds wipe trying to get our
>corpses had me seriously questioning whether I wanted to keep wasting
>time on EQ.
Did you manage to get enough corpses piled up at zone in to get a GM to
despawn the zone? That happened on a few servers back in the day that I
have heard about. On Tribunal, when I restarted there, the early 50's
did their first raid in fear and wiped and some came back barely 46 by
the time they'd recovered their corpses.
>Is it too easy now? Probably, but I think it's a good thing. It
>doesn't bother me that people are 65 in a couple of months now while
>it took me over 3 years to get there. I haven't lost anything by
>enjoying the trip but people joining EQ now will never have that trip
>no matter what.
Nope. IMO, they haven't had the potential for that since websites like
EQAtlas went live. Nothing I have seen was more fun than exploring Lower
Guk without a map, when no one knew their way around. I was hoping LDoN
might recreate some of that particular fun but sadly they missed the
mark on that, going so far as to allow the mapping tool to work in LDoN
dungeons. Talk about gimping the expansion right from the start. I
wonder how many of the people complaining about the attack key move and
free backpack for newbies use maps in LDoN dungeons.
>.. Too many of us are uber and experienced with the game
>mechanics for that to be possible again. At least this way, if a
>friends joins EQ, they have a realistic chance of actually getting to
>be high enough level to group with me. Only downside is that now I
>have to teach them how to play once they get to 65. <g>
Shudder. Occasionally a guildmate takes a L65 pickup group when there's
no spot open in a guild group. Usually we then have to listen to an hour
or so of complaints of completely retarded play in guildchat.
42
> Erm, bullshit.
<snip exactly that>
Please read the whole thread before interjecting your comments in the
middle of it.
I already agreed that a non-xp death after a raid was too harsh, and
softened considerably, suggesting merely that 96% rezzes are too common,
and that rezzing for the 'most part' shouldn't go beyond the mid 80s.
David Navarro
>
> And don't forget Rangers who get an instaCamo AA.
And Druids... Evil Max Payne 2 is stopping me from grinding the last 1.5
AA I need to get it. >:(
--
Venerable Hanrahan, Storm Warden (Human), Fennin Ro
Kitez les guards!
Frank E
wrote:
The risk is gone to a large extent, but so is the tedium.
>>Closest I ever came to quitting EQ was an 8 hour CR in Fear. Sitting
>>at the zone line watching multiple guilds wipe trying to get our
>>corpses had me seriously questioning whether I wanted to keep wasting
>>time on EQ.
>
>Did you manage to get enough corpses piled up at zone in to get a GM to
>despawn the zone? That happened on a few servers back in the day that I
>have heard about. On Tribunal, when I restarted there, the early 50's
>did their first raid in fear and wiped and some came back barely 46 by
>the time they'd recovered their corpses.
This was long after the level cap got moved to 60, late Velious era
when Fear really should've been trivial. I was part of the original
break crew and you knew it was gonna be a long day when the first
person to zone in eats a death touch from across the zone. Ended up
watching 2 good mid tier guilds wipe trying to do a CR and a 3 group
break crew from Bristlebane's resident uber-guild do the same. Just
one of those times when the mobs in Fear don't ever seem to loose
chain agro for some reason. As soon as one mob is agro'd half the zone
comes down on you.
Finally ended up with about 50 people from the top two guilds rushing
the place with enough clerics so that they could click casualties
faster than the mobs were killing them. A zerg-fest in the true sense
of the word <g>.
>>.. Too many of us are uber and experienced with the game
>>mechanics for that to be possible again. At least this way, if a
>>friends joins EQ, they have a realistic chance of actually getting to
>>be high enough level to group with me. Only downside is that now I
>>have to teach them how to play once they get to 65. <g>
>
>Shudder. Occasionally a guildmate takes a L65 pickup group when there's
>no spot open in a guild group. Usually we then have to listen to an hour
>or so of complaints of completely retarded play in guildchat.
On the bright side, death at 65 means a lot less than death at 20th
lvl used to. Heck we all make mistakes, I came real close to wiping a
LDoN group this weekend through a really stupid move on my part. I'm
sure if it had been a pickup group we woulda wiped and people would've
been complaining about that damn shaman in their guild chat.
I do tend to be a lot more forgiving with screwups when it's someone I
know than some random guy in a pickup group which really isn't fair.
<shrug>
Rgds, Frank
MJ DiBella
--snip--
>
> Is it too easy now? Probably, but I think it's a good thing. It
> doesn't bother me that people are 65 in a couple of months now while
> it took me over 3 years to get there. I haven't lost anything by
> enjoying the trip but people joining EQ now will never have that trip
> no matter what. Too many of us are uber and experienced with the game
> mechanics for that to be possible again. At least this way, if a
> friends joins EQ, they have a realistic chance of actually getting to
> be high enough level to group with me. Only downside is that now I
> have to teach them how to play once they get to 65. <g>
>
> Rgds, Frank
Yes, but Thurdar, you do it sooooo well. ;-)
Grateful Padder
Frank E
wrote:
>Frank E <Fra...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<snCdP+Atoju7aG...@4ax.com>...
>
>--snip--
>> At least this way, if a
>> friends joins EQ, they have a realistic chance of actually getting to
>> be high enough level to group with me. Only downside is that now I
>> have to teach them how to play once they get to 65. <g>
>>
>> Rgds, Frank
>
>Yes, but Thurdar, you do it sooooo well. ;-)
>
> Grateful Padder
Pffft, the hardest part is getting you to quit apologizing for
everything! Heck, even though Padder didn't group much on her way to
65, I can't think of a single time that you've a group that I was in.
Now compare that to how many times you've seen me pull and wipe in
that time period. <g>
Heck, I can't even think of any silly stunts to tease you about other
than:
.... clicked any good books lately? :p
Rgds, Frank