Level 50 guy question...
Sulla
EQ is geared towards group play. The talk about the level 50 guy gives
me the impression he is the only one at the top and has left everyone
else far behind.
So the question is "Who did he group with to get to level 50?" I mean
there was no one else to group with at such lofty levels, so how did he
play?
My take on this feat is you can play solo quite well. Am I wrong?
Dog Boy
EQVault, it sounds like some weak spots in gameplay were found by him. He
obviously didn't abuse them since he is still the beta, but I'm sure he got
a fair chunk of experience out of the bugs when he was trying to figure out
how to recreate them.
Sounds like a really good beta tester.
DB
Sulla wrote in message <36B866...@concentric.net>...
Mark
There are many people who are in the 40's now anyway.
John
Well here's a really nice post which addresses some issues in EQ I found
over at news.avault.com in forum.everquest. Part of it deals with playing
solo. It was posted by Bradley J. Storch who found it elsewhere:
This comes from a message board I frequent and I think ya'll might find
it of interest. Hopefully the author doesn't take offense to me posting
it here. It brings up a point we haven't discussed. The downside of
level restrictions.
Well after testing EQ for a half a year and giving it al ot of
consideration I've decided not to play EQ in phase four of the beta/demo
or in the final release. Another longtime beta tester wrote the
following, it pretty much sums up my feelings:
I had a great time playing EQ while the excitement lasted. Obviously, as
I have decided to leave the beta (nor do I expect to play in the Final,
either) the excitement for playing isn't there anymore. I have NO bad
things to say about the support of 989 and their development efforts.
IMO the EQ dev team is about as dedicated as any group I've yet seen in
their goals of making EQ a game that follows their designs and vision.
The reason I'm posting this is to publicize my issues of why I'm not
continuing.
1) I had found a good mix of teammates and then lost them do to out
leveling. We were almost always online during this time, and we looked
for each other. What happened later was that over a period of a few
days, some of us weren't able to play, and we quickly were out leveled
by the others. Obviously, when XP is important those online friendships
tend to disintegrate when playing together is of little or no XP benefit
to some of the members. Yes, you meet more people out there, but the
same issue keeps rearing it's ugly head. I see this as a constant
struggle.
2) As a party based game, In order to survive, I grew tired of
constantly trying to find EQ players online who were a) the right class
and level makeup's to join a party, and b) had the social skills that I
wanted to endure while playing with them. My trademark comment has a
always been "The problem with online games is online gamers", and I see
this snowballing big time in B4 and Final. As EQ has almost developed
out Solo play (which I'm not bitching about, it's just a fact of life)
I'm less and less enthusiastic about potluck gaming. Yes, there are
great people out there, and I've met a bunch, but the great ones are a
lot harder to find than the mediocre.
3) Camping and lack of things to kill. Seems like to stand any chance of
leveling with any rate at all, you have to camp, because currently it's
a lot easier to find something to kill in general if you camp it. Well,
everything's taken right now, and it's real boring to run around to the
next camp that's taken.
4) The seeming direction of development for the powergamer. I've been
haunting these boards for a few months now. The changes that are made,
IMO are done to hinder the leveling of the few who rapidly advance. Yes,
this is part of testing and tuning, and needs to happen. But as it's
been said, the powergamer will out level anyone and always level faster
than the casual gamer. Who the hell cares if a powergamer makes level 50
in 6 months? What effect does that have on me as a level 25 in the same
amount of time? I'm just not into taking a year and a half to 2 years to
be a stud player.
I guess the end result is that I'm just not in the "target" audience.
This is OK. I suppose the biggest issue for me is the social issue, and
there's probably no online game that'll ever be made that will overcome
just how people behave when they can't see who they're dealing with.
Coupled with the lessening ability to solo, and the current camping
situation, I'm just not enthusiastic about it anymore, so I'm not going
to continue to test it. So I will take my leave, and wish 989, the game,
and the rest of you the very best of luck and prosperity.
To the above I would also add a reason 5) PvP is a total joke. EQ is
primarily a PvE (player vs environment) game and the PvP aspects are an
untested and untuned afterthought that is unplayable. EQ PvP mostly just
comes down to what level your character is in one on one fights. I would
bet the EQ Dev Team doesn't seriously look at PvP till several months
into final.
My main reason for giving up on EQ is reason number 1. Having friends
outlevel you and then being unable to group with them just sucks. And
having to find new people to group with can be a real pain in the rear.
Playing in a "pickup" group with strangers is nowhere near as fun as
playing the game with friends who you know. This is why EQ is going to
be a guild buster. Guild mates or friends cannot chose to play the game
with each other unless they form a workable group. No more "lets get
together and go to this dungeon", in EQ if you want to gain exp. pts and
stay alive you are going to have to pick group mates based on a player's
class (i.e. need at least one cleric etc. etc.) and level (if someone is
too high level in group then others don't gain exp. pts). On the beta
testers message board this issue was recently raised by enough people
that Brad McQuaid responded. His response was that the level grouping
limitations are needed to prevent twinking of levels (i.e. your level 4
warrior groups with my level 40 wizard and I go blast level 30 monsters
so you gain 20 levels of exp. pts in a day). After several testers
responded with "who cares if someone does that" type messages Brad
McQuaid stated that if enough other people raised the issue they might
rethink the level limits. I doubt that this will happen though, every
time the Dev Team has had to make a decision regarding playability vs
twinking, they have chosen the antitwinking choice.
Mark S
in phase 4 or retail. These are just my opinions which I hope to bear
out through my phase 4 experience...
> I had a great time playing EQ while the excitement lasted. Obviously,
> as
> I have decided to leave the beta (nor do I expect to play in the
> Final,
> either) the excitement for playing isn't there anymore. I have NO bad
> things to say about the support of 989 and their development efforts.
> IMO the EQ dev team is about as dedicated as any group I've yet seen
> in
> their goals of making EQ a game that follows their designs and vision.
>
> The reason I'm posting this is to publicize my issues of why I'm not
> continuing.
>
> 1) I had found a good mix of teammates and then lost them do to out
> leveling. We were almost always online during this time, and we looked
>
> for each other. What happened later was that over a period of a few
> days, some of us weren't able to play, and we quickly were out leveled
>
> by the others. Obviously, when XP is important those online
> friendships
> tend to disintegrate when playing together is of little or no XP
> benefit
> to some of the members. Yes, you meet more people out there, but the
> same issue keeps rearing it's ugly head. I see this as a constant
> struggle.
>
Here is my first reply. Why do you have to group together to adventure
together? Group, as I understand it, only allows you to see your group
members health, share experience, and "groupsay". If a friend you want
to play with is out of range for group exp sharing, don't group. You
can still travel and adventure together, and each person gains exp
depending upon what they do (i.e. monster killing); just remember, the
player that does the most damage will get the exp if not grouped. Also,
consider what is more important to you? Adventuring with friends or
making levels. Yes, ideally you can do both but if you had to choose
which would it be? Another thing to consider is at higher levels, the
grouping range opens up more....
> 2) As a party based game, In order to survive, I grew tired of
> constantly trying to find EQ players online who were a) the right
> class
> and level makeup's to join a party, and b) had the social skills that
> I
> wanted to endure while playing with them. My trademark comment has a
> always been "The problem with online games is online gamers", and I
> see
> this snowballing big time in B4 and Final. As EQ has almost developed
> out Solo play (which I'm not bitching about, it's just a fact of life)
>
> I'm less and less enthusiastic about potluck gaming. Yes, there are
> great people out there, and I've met a bunch, but the great ones are a
>
> lot harder to find than the mediocre.
Generally speaking, you have similar difficulties in most online games;
finding new people who are approximately the same skill level as
yourself and are the kind of people you want to play with. Not much you
can do other than meet and greet, try people out, remember the ones you
had fun with and avoid the ones you didn't in the future. Meeting other
players and interacting with them is supposed to be part of the fun.
Otherwise, play direct modem connection games (obviously not EQ) with
only the people you want.
> 3) Camping and lack of things to kill. Seems like to stand any chance
> of
> leveling with any rate at all, you have to camp, because currently
> it's
> a lot easier to find something to kill in general if you camp it.
> Well,
> everything's taken right now, and it's real boring to run around to
> the
> next camp that's taken.
I understand that 989 has been working on this situation, as well as
making camping something that you don't want to do...
> 4) The seeming direction of development for the powergamer. I've been
> haunting these boards for a few months now. The changes that are made,
>
> IMO are done to hinder the leveling of the few who rapidly advance.
> Yes,
> this is part of testing and tuning, and needs to happen. But as it's
> been said, the powergamer will out level anyone and always level
> faster
> than the casual gamer. Who the hell cares if a powergamer makes level
> 50
> in 6 months? What effect does that have on me as a level 25 in the
> same
> amount of time? I'm just not into taking a year and a half to 2 years
> to
> be a stud player.
But for others, that is part of the appeal. To play long term and really
develop over time. If you did spend 2 years playing a character to
level 50 you will probably feel very attached to that character, i.e. it
would be more "real" to you because of the amount of time and effort you
put into him/her. For me, the fun is the journey, not the finish. If i
ever do make it to level 50, it won't be like "game over, I won". If I
make it that high I hope there will still be new places to go, quests to
do and people to adventure with. I don't want really care how long it
takes to make a high level, so long as it is not so easy that everyone
can do it in 2 months time; if it is too easy it would rapidly lose
it's appeal for many people.
> I guess the end result is that I'm just not in the "target" audience.
>
> This is OK. I suppose the biggest issue for me is the social issue,
> and
> there's probably no online game that'll ever be made that will
> overcome
> just how people behave when they can't see who they're dealing with.
> Coupled with the lessening ability to solo, and the current camping
> situation, I'm just not enthusiastic about it anymore, so I'm not
> going
> to continue to test it. So I will take my leave, and wish 989, the
> game,
> and the rest of you the very best of luck and prosperity.
>
I hope whoever wrote this post will reconsider. If not, we'll struggle
on...
Mark S.
HeroicFool
As for the game being a guild buster, that's patently untrue.
As long as you actually like your guildmates as opposed to using them for
equipment, or to occasionally save your butt, you'll never allow this to
break a guild.
I plan on playing several characters, in fact I don't doubt a bit that I
will fill all 8 character slots, there's just too much variety out there to
limit yourself to one class just so you can attain level 50 faster. A
couple of these characters will be in my guild, more will not. Those 2 that
are in my guild will always have people of comparable levels to play with,
because the size of my guild pretty much guarantees this. If by some fluke
I outstrip all of my guild members and can no longer gain experience, I go
to my less used persona and adventure with them still in that form.
Problem solved.
HeroicFool, Paladin Seneschal of COR
Pendragon
completely with 'Heroic fool ' and Mark. S.' and disagree with most of what
'John' has stated. I get ticked off at many computer games that I manage to
completely solve in a few months time, and never again want to play it. I
think that having an almost unattainable level at the top will enhance game
play for many players that haven't been able to find an interesting and
challenging computer game yet, hence the popularity of 'pencil and paper'
games like AD&D etc. where there is no end, just further beginnings. I also
agree that the possible combinations of characters that can be created and
the 8 characters/account will allow gamers to try out the various
combinations, and not just 'see if I can get this char. to L.50 the fastest'
I think many players of other online games may be disappointed with the
slowness of leveling in EQ, but there are many other games around for these
'instant gratification' personalities. I applaud EQ's designers for trying
to create a game that is for 'the rest of us' that enjoy the challenge (and
sometimes even the frustrations) of really having to work(play?) hard for
each and every achievement, and then can really feel that sense of
accomplishment that comes so fleetingly. Enough ranting of my sanctimonious
self for now......Pen
HeroicFool
of the year with the other 2 isles, the level limit will be raised above 50
and the 2 isles will be specifically built for these higher levels...
Dragons anyone?
Fandral
I usually work hard within an RPG environment to build my character. After
weeks of play in one online RPG, a player whom I had previously respected
and enjoyed playing with, pulled me into an adventuring group. Happily
joining, I soon found myself flying off and breaking all the level
restrictions I had to to labor through for weeks, due to the strengths of a
megacharacter who is leading this power leveling expedition. I had no idea
where we were, what we were doing, the foes we were facing or where they fit
in rpg world. At the end of this half hour tour, I'm up 50 levels which
totally devalued the effort and time I had invested into bringing my
character up to a measly level 19. To say the least, my attitude toward
spending further time in the game went down 50 levels. I totally applaud
989's antitwinking efforts.
When I've enjoyed playing with certain others, and realize our levels have
become disparate, I kept a series of characters at varying levels so
adventuring with them would continue to be enjoyable and not because of any
experience point penalty. I find nothing enjoyable about standing around and
letting my upper level friend do all the fighting in a battle I know I can't
contribute a single meaningful thing to. I have better things ways to waste
my time. And players I enjoy adventuring with wouldn't want to stand idly by
while I did all the work or I wouldn't respect them much longer. A player
whose main reason for not testing is based on being or not being with
friends wouldn't put so much importance on the experience point penalty
aspect of adventuring unless their true reason was the inability to shortcut
each other's level advancement.
I realize this is my take on group adventuring and there are others who feel
vastly different. So I too am in 989's target audience, and I'm appreciative
of their efforts to make my time in Norrath more satisfying.
Fandral
Ian Fan
HeroicFool wrote in message
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