Feign Death was not Nerfed!
jkprice
The new changes to feign death have made it easier to play a monk.
Here are the facts:
Previously, you feign death, and when the mob leaves you get up. At some
point, either immediately, or at a future time, it WILL come back for you,
regardless of where you are or what you do, unless you zone out and zone
back. That was the ONLY way to clear their memory.
Now, feign death works the same, same chance for success, except that a mob
(or group of mobs) has a 33% chance per feign that they will forget you
altogether. This is decided on the player side, not the mob side, so if the
33% chance comes through, they ALL forget you. If it doesn't, you can feign
again and have ANOTHER 33% chance of them forgetting you...over and over
again until it works.
If you are too low health to risk getting up, just lay where you are and
when they return to their spot, they will almost guarranteed forget about
you then. No more random trains, no more deaths by surprise from something
you feigned out 2 hours ago.
Its also better for pulling, because you can run a ways, feign death when
they get too close, wait until they've walked far enough back and get up and
run again, feigning when they get too close, etc. etc. etc. because they
will start chasing you immediately upon when you get up, instead of waiting
a while. If they happen to forget about you, you can always get close
enough to them to re-agro them and keep going.
Feign Death has been improved, not nerfed.
Brett Hawn
jkprice
behind...
"Brett Hawn" <pir...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:slrn84b97m....@dragonstar.noc.erols.net...
Brett Hawn
33% chance was on the client side? That would be pretty f'ing stupid if they
did it that way. Second of all I've already had it fail on a <35 mob, so its
already broken.
jkprice<jkp...@NOSPAMsympatico.ca> wrote:
>So tell me why YOU think it was nerfed. Everything I've said below is true,
>and positive. What are the negatives?
>
>
>"Brett Hawn" <pir...@erols.com> wrote in message
>news:slrn84babt....@dragonstar.noc.erols.net...
>> Ahhh.. a mid level monk, come back when you've hit 45, then see if you
>still
>> think the same.
Brett Hawn
jkprice
and positive. What are the negatives?
"Brett Hawn" <pir...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:slrn84babt....@dragonstar.noc.erols.net...
jkprice
once, and by feigning multiple times they could make a whole group forget.
And feign death always has a chance for failure, even when maxed, feigning
against a level 1 mob. That isn't new. You've also probably notice if you
feign successfully but something was already in the process of casting on
you, when the spell goes off they will all attack again.
"Brett Hawn" <pir...@erols.com> wrote in message
news:slrn84baoa....@dragonstar.noc.erols.net...
> The negatives? First of all where did you get your information stating the
> 33% chance was on the client side? That would be pretty f'ing stupid if
they
> did it that way. Second of all I've already had it fail on a <35 mob, so
its
> already broken.
>
> jkprice<jkp...@NOSPAMsympatico.ca> wrote:
David Zielinski
>point, either immediately, or at a future time, it WILL come back for you,
>regardless of where you are or what you do, unless you zone out and zone
>back. That was the ONLY way to clear their memory.
That is flat-out wrong. The mob always forgot about you, except for a few
select mobs which would return.
Nan Wang
More than a few selected mobs. If someone else angers the mob and you are
higher on the shit list, they will come back.
Keil
<jkp...@NOSPAMsympatico.ca> wrote:
>
>The new changes to feign death have made it easier to play a monk.
>
>Here are the facts:
>
>Previously, you feign death, and when the mob leaves you get up. At some
>point, either immediately, or at a future time, it WILL come back for you,
>regardless of where you are or what you do, unless you zone out and zone
>back. That was the ONLY way to clear their memory.
>
>Now, feign death works the same, same chance for success, except that a mob
>(or group of mobs) has a 33% chance per feign that they will forget you
>altogether. This is decided on the player side, not the mob side, so if the
>33% chance comes through, they ALL forget you. If it doesn't, you can feign
>again and have ANOTHER 33% chance of them forgetting you...over and over
>again until it works.
>
>If you are too low health to risk getting up, just lay where you are and
>when they return to their spot, they will almost guarranteed forget about
>you then. No more random trains, no more deaths by surprise from something
>you feigned out 2 hours ago.
>
>Its also better for pulling, because you can run a ways, feign death when
>they get too close, wait until they've walked far enough back and get up and
>run again, feigning when they get too close, etc. etc. etc. because they
>will start chasing you immediately upon when you get up, instead of waiting
>a while. If they happen to forget about you, you can always get close
>enough to them to re-agro them and keep going.
>
>Feign Death has been improved, not nerfed.
>
>
>
Too me this sounds good. I don't play a monk or plan to play one.
However, It sounds good to me. If you are a monk and are complaining
then maybe the old way was just too damn easy, this at least makes
sense.
stephenmcleod
I'll address this point by point. I'm already gone over this issue
(and the subsequent non-fix). I'm so mad at Sony for allow Verant to
behave in this fashion (and make my 300 hours of time spent on the game
completely wasted except for the fun I had along the way) that I'm
-not- going to purchase Sony products for a while.
But to address your specific article...
> > >> >The new changes to feign death have made it easier to play a
> monk.
> > >> >
> > >> >Here are the facts:
> > >> >
> > >> >Previously, you feign death, and when the mob leaves you
> get up. At
> > >some
> > >> >point, either immediately, or at a future time, it WILL come
> back for
> > >you,
> > >> >regardless of where you are or what you do, unless you zone
> out and
> zone
> > >> >back. That was the ONLY way to clear their memory.
> > >> >
This is a lie by omission. PREVIOUSLY, if you pulled a mob and it was
not one of the few always aggro monsters (sand giants, gorge hounds,
etc), it would never ever come back unless someone else attacked for
less damage than you had done so far.
NOW- if you are over L35,
First you have to succeed. They changed this to fail more than it used
to. (didn't mention that did they)
Second, the mobs now have to believe your success. Previously, if you
feigned against 5 mobs and succeeded, they all believed it. Now- each
gets a roughly 25% saving throw regardless of level. I was killed by 6
greeds after 5 'sucessful' feign deaths where at least 1 saw through
the feign each time I 'suceeded'. (didn't mention this did they?)
Third, if they get back to their spawn point there over a 90% chance to
forget. Sounds good doesn't it? Well, if you aggo'd 10 monsters (like
the archeologists room for example), the end result is a 75% chance
that at least one will remember and bring them ALL back. Previously,
they all forgot as soon as you succeeded and wouldn't come back unless
you got up while they were close to you. (Didn't mention that did
they?)
Finally, wanderers NEVER EVER seem to forget. (and we are talking post
patch after the 12/1/99 patch that was supposed to fix this. one
testing monk reports 15 successful feigns, getting up and seeing the
wanderer appear with many other mobs in tow) DIDN'T MENTION THAT DID
THEY!?!
> > >> >Now, feign death works the same, same chance for success,
> except that
> a
> > >mob
> > >> >(or group of mobs) has a 33% chance per feign that they will
> forget
> you
> > >> >altogether. This is decided on the player side, not the mob
> side, so
> if
> > >the
> > >> >33% chance comes through, they ALL forget you. If it
> doesn't, you can
> > >feign
> > >> >again and have ANOTHER 33% chance of them forgetting
> you...over and
> over
> > >> >again until it works.
> > >> >
BEFORE- they had a 100% chance to remember but a 100% chance NOT TO
RETURN unless attacked by someone else for less damage. And they aggro
everything else along their path coming to you. Now verant cleverly
changed things back to the old way up to level 35 so only a tiny
minority of players (about 100) are affected now. Of course, every
monk is COMPLETELY SCREWED when they start pulling level 36+ mobs. But
hey, most won't notice that for a long time.
> > >> >If you are too low health to risk getting up, just lay where
> you are and > >> >when they return to their spot, they will almost
guarranteed forget about you then. No more random trains, no more
deaths by surprise from something you feigned out 2 hours ago.
So many lies in such a short paragraph.
1) If you are low health and you feign now- the one mob that sees
through your feign will just go ahead and kill you so you can't lay
there unless you just want to die. And this is if it SUCEEDS. If you
fail (more likely now) then you just die. No problem for anyone else
in this case tho.
2) You don't get random trains from something 2 hours ago. Random mobs
came almost exclusively on the surface. You would feign a mob and
never zone. In a dungeon it was either in the room you were clearing
anyway and you would just kill it anyway or it was powerful enough that
you zoned so it would forget you.
3) And I love ALMOST guaranteed. How do you like a 2% chance per
encounter that you will be killed and lose 75 encounters worth of
experience? Before it was essentially a 0% chance. Now it is more
like a 6-10% chance room mobs will kill you, your party, and everyone
else between you and zone. There is essentially a 100% chance that 36+
wanderers will kill you. You must zone if you feign against a
wanderer. And since they can teleport to you if they can't get to you
quickly, you must get up- run 50', feign. Each time you repeat this
pulse, the wanderer aggros a few more mobs. One monk in Unrest had the
entire dungeon boiling out every time he got up to run a few more steps
towards zone.
> > >> >
> > >> >Its also better for pulling, because you can run a ways,
> feign death
> when
> > >> >they get too close, wait until they've walked far enough
> back and get
> up
> > >and
> > >> >run again, feigning when they get too close, etc. etc. etc.
> because
> they
> > >> >will start chasing you immediately upon when you get up,
> instead of
> > >waiting
> > >> >a while. If they happen to forget about you, you can always
> get close
> > >> >enough to them to re-agro them and keep going.
> > >> >
> > >> >Feign Death has been improved, not nerfed.
Of course, if they see THROUGH your successful feign (which happens if
you pull 4+36HD mobs) then you just die. Since this happens almost
100% of the time you get 5 or more mobs, if you try and pull any room,
you will die.
Is that clear enough for you?
It is not only a nerf. it is the destruction of monks. THey have now
postponed it until folks get to about L34-L36 so most folks won't see
it.
My advice: Run a ranger. I'm not saying the game is biased FOR them,
but it damn sure isn't biased AGAINST them.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
x...@yyy.zzz
I agree Steve this guy simply doesnt know what it was like
pre-nerf and doesnt want to start over. So he has convinced himself
that every high level monk that has tested this is wrong and he is right.
That is true arrogance.
jkprice
> This is a lie by omission. PREVIOUSLY, if you pulled a mob and it was
> not one of the few always aggro monsters (sand giants, gorge hounds,
> etc), it would never ever come back unless someone else attacked for
> less damage than you had done so far.
Just about anything I fight in the game is always agro. Unless you are a
power-leveller who makes their levels fighting guards that should be
friendly to you, then this is not an issue. I fight friendly - indifferent
mobs so infrequently that i haven't tested this yet, but this is the first I
have heard of it. I could see it being a bit of a pain if its true, but not
a major factor.
> NOW- if you are over L35,
> First you have to succeed. They changed this to fail more than it used
> to. (didn't mention that did they)
Baloney. I succeed as often now as i ever did.
> Second, the mobs now have to believe your success. Previously, if you
> feigned against 5 mobs and succeeded, they all believed it. Now- each
> gets a roughly 25% saving throw regardless of level. I was killed by 6
> greeds after 5 'sucessful' feign deaths where at least 1 saw through
> the feign each time I 'suceeded'. (didn't mention this did they?)
No, they do not. If feign is successful, they all believe you are dead.
> Third, if they get back to their spawn point there over a 90% chance to
> forget. Sounds good doesn't it? Well, if you aggo'd 10 monsters (like
> the archeologists room for example), the end result is a 75% chance
> that at least one will remember and bring them ALL back. Previously,
> they all forgot as soon as you succeeded and wouldn't come back unless
> you got up while they were close to you. (Didn't mention that did
> they?)
Prior to this, they NEVER forgot about you, EVER. For example, fight
something in unrest, feign, and no matter what happens, unless it was
killed, it would eventually come back to you, maybe hours later. I have
seen it happen MANY times. It was worse the longer they waited,
too--because if they got back to their spawn point inside the house, and the
place respawned, they would pull everything in the frigging house with them.
Now they at least have a chance to forget you so you don't have to zone.
> Finally, wanderers NEVER EVER seem to forget. (and we are talking post
> patch after the 12/1/99 patch that was supposed to fix this. one
> testing monk reports 15 successful feigns, getting up and seeing the
> wanderer appear with many other mobs in tow) DIDN'T MENTION THAT DID
> THEY!?!
>
Wanderers ALWAYS forget about me after I feign a few times.
> 1) If you are low health and you feign now- the one mob that sees
> through your feign will just go ahead and kill you so you can't lay
> there unless you just want to die. And this is if it SUCEEDS. If you
> fail (more likely now) then you just die. No problem for anyone else
> in this case tho.
This only ever happens because of casters or lag. If something attacks you
after you have successfully feigned, or casts on you, they will all notice
you are faking it. I can still successfully feign huge groups of frogs in
lower guk...this doesn't gel with your 25% saving throw.
> 2) You don't get random trains from something 2 hours ago. Random mobs
> came almost exclusively on the surface. You would feign a mob and
> never zone. In a dungeon it was either in the room you were clearing
> anyway and you would just kill it anyway or it was powerful enough that
> you zoned so it would forget you.
I am thinking zones like unrest, temple of cazic thule, and mistmoore.
> 3) And I love ALMOST guaranteed. How do you like a 2% chance per
> encounter that you will be killed and lose 75 encounters worth of
> experience? Before it was essentially a 0% chance. Now it is more
> like a 6-10% chance room mobs will kill you, your party, and everyone
> else between you and zone. There is essentially a 100% chance that 36+
> wanderers will kill you. You must zone if you feign against a
> wanderer. And since they can teleport to you if they can't get to you
> quickly, you must get up- run 50', feign. Each time you repeat this
> pulse, the wanderer aggros a few more mobs. One monk in Unrest had the
> entire dungeon boiling out every time he got up to run a few more steps
> towards zone.
That is pre-patch standard procedure. Besides, if you know how to work the
system, you can actually use lag to your advantage.
Feign, wait for feign to be available again, get up quick and feign again.
That brief time is not enough time for the server to register that you got
up, tell the mob, get it to tell other mobs, and start after you. However,
it will make a third of them forget about you, (assuming that people my
experience are wrong and each gets a separate chance to forget about you).
Do it enough times and they all forget about you.
> Of course, if they see THROUGH your successful feign (which happens if
> you pull 4+36HD mobs) then you just die. Since this happens almost
> 100% of the time you get 5 or more mobs, if you try and pull any room,
> you will die.
>
> Is that clear enough for you?
>
> It is not only a nerf. it is the destruction of monks. THey have now
> postponed it until folks get to about L34-L36 so most folks won't see
> it.
>
I can still feign 5-6 red mobs with relative ease at level 36, assuming they
aren't casters. I believe your information is mistaken.
Joe Boo D2
level. But I do find it sad when I hear a guide, yes a guide, talk about how
he killed 10 people due to the way feign death is working. And then other
monks in the area congratulate him. Not on the fact that he killed people.
but on the fact that he killed fewer people than they. I was waiting and
waiting for the feign death skill, but when killing 10 people is considered a
small amount, monkdom has lost a lot of grandeur it had. And I know it sound
sgood, but tell me why a TON of monks have quit playing their monks, or even
quit the game itself. That's why we had a monk sit-in. When i'm hunting, I'll
be too afraid of killing others. One monk told me how he was yelled at for
training onto a group, even though he was across the zone and hadn't done any
feign deathing. People start to simply assume that monks caused the trains. I
only speak of what I've heard, but this is jsut a little of what I've been
told. I just hope I can still find a group when I'm older. I know I've heard
of monks looking for groups for 2+ hours.