* The Class Winners & Losers (Post GoD) *
The Uber Nuker
"Which class won EQ? Which classes lost EQ? (post God)"
Here's the scoreboard for EQ post GoD:
The Winners:
All the winners are classes that can survive. All winners have a large
variety of abilties and skills whilst the true classes didn't get the boost
they needed in their sole class to maintain their positioning. Truckloads of
loot is mostly easily attainable for these classes. Something that had a
great impact on positioning was *summoning mobs*. This is because a majority
of trash mobs *summon* just like demi-gods now, effectively making root and
snare abilities obsolete and not needed to survive anymore. Soloing is
basically broken for all kiting classes from the PoP era at level 65. So
basically all classes with a chance to survive or take a beating from
summoning mobs will always be winners.. since everyone else dies... and
dying is the same as ~LOSING~! Voting was open to EP+ enabled guilds on
various boards.
1st Place - Bard (votes: 954) - No matter what you want to do, no matter if
its GoD, quadkiting in PoFire, or killing Emperor Crush for shits and
giggles, the bard is the best class in game. Period. You cannot kill a bard
unless he is drunk or wants to be nice to you. He is a backup plate tank if
your real tank goes down making him very valuable. Has awesome songs and
AA's. Play that lute you funky mofo.
2nd Place - Beastlord (votes: 762) - The class that killed off Shamans,
Mages and even tanks like SK's. This class is da pwn of da pwnz. 6 BSTs in
an LDoN cant go wrong, and its fun too! Can't find a plate tank for
minibosses? No problem, use a beastlord! With the amount of BST gear that is
easily attainable and useable means they are real winners. You could
probably make a whole guild and zerg everything thru PoP and still win ;-)
BST's have neat buffs, AA's and has a dangerous pet with an awesome push
capability /cough ;-)
3rd Place - Necromancer (votes: 553) - A nice class for any situation. With
feign death and ressurection, group mana regen, group heal over time makes
this class a real winner. Summoning mobs? No problem, just hit that FD!
Don't wanna lose your uber camp? No problem, just park an FD necro there!
Your group wiped? No problem necro ressurection is inc! Going low on mana?
No problem there either! Only lacks skills in tanking but the necro just
fd's escaping death. Have alot of variations and abilties to use in
different situations, and has probably saved the day for many groups and
raids many times.
---------------------------------------
The Losers:
These classes are losers due to the fact that they have one of the following
issues:
- Lack a variety of skills for different situations.
- Their true abilities do not boost them to the degree in which they can
maintain superiority.
- Have been nerfed to a degree where their class ability have broken them.
- Haven't played long enough so they have gimpy gear and aa's.
These classes die often, and dying is the same as ~LOSING~!
1st Place - Wizard (votes: 479) - His dps is a waste since he cannot use it
and survive the onslaught of summonings if he is to be comparable to other
dps machines. Snare and root are unusable since everything summons now.
Another factor is that the wizards dps is subject to drop to 0 (based on his
manapool), whilst all other dps classes can yield damage indefinately as
long as their HP > 0. There is no real need for the wizard class in any
situation, except raiding basically and then he still usually dies if he
does his job correctly ;-)
2nd Place - Druid (votes: 371) - Isn't a real loser though, only a semi
loser. The backup healer & utility druid is still beneficial to this day,
but then you would rather have a cleric really, since you are already
wasting this spot in the group by not using a DPS machine instead. Another
factor is that most druids specialized in evocation and not alteration,
making their healing spells cost a bomb, and still while specialized in
evocation their dps is a joke compared to real dps machines. Only grab this
class if you cant find a cleric, or if you need a little bit of extra
healing in addition to the cleric, or if you wont need so much healing to
warrant a cleric and need more dps, or if you like to look at the woodelf
model. The amount of summoning mobs really hurt the druids playability.
3rd Place - Berserker (votes: 233) - Why? Because everyone else has 600+
aa's and truckloads of neat gear and the berzerkers haven't been around long
enough yet. You just know the berzerker has crap gear and most likely only a
Baron. This will likely change in the future as more max out their aa's.
Cheers!
The Uber Nuker,
~~~~~~~~~~~~
-martin
news:ch6ou6$nup$1...@services.kq.no...
> loot is mostly easily attainable for these classes. Something that had a
> great impact on positioning was *summoning mobs*. This is because a
majority
> of trash mobs *summon* just like demi-gods now, effectively making root
and
> snare abilities obsolete and not needed to survive anymore.
About 10% of mobs in Kod'taz, Yxtta randomly summon. Holy shit, what a
majority!
> Soloing is basically broken for all kiting classes from the PoP era at
level 65. So
> basically all classes with a chance to survive or take a beating from
> summoning mobs will always be winners.. since everyone else dies... and
Kiting is the only way people can solo GoD (kod'taz+). Be it agro kiting,
root dotting or whatever, they are the only people who can kill even 1 mob
solo.
> 1st Place - Bard (votes: 954) - No matter what you want to do, no matter
if
> its GoD, quadkiting in PoFire, or killing Emperor Crush for shits and
> giggles, the bard is the best class in game. Period. You cannot kill a
bard
> unless he is drunk or wants to be nice to you. He is a backup plate tank
if
> your real tank goes down making him very valuable.
A bard can tank about as good as a cleric, has very limited options for
gaining agro (much less holding agro). Yeah, mighty backup tank!
> 1st Place - Wizard (votes: 479) - His dps is a waste since he cannot use
it
> and survive the onslaught of summonings if he is to be comparable to other
> dps machines. Snare and root are unusable since everything summons now.
> Another factor is that the wizards dps is subject to drop to 0 (based on
his
> manapool), whilst all other dps classes can yield damage indefinately as
> long as their HP > 0. There is no real need for the wizard class in any
> situation, except raiding basically and then he still usually dies if he
> does his job correctly ;-)
With EP pants (clicky concussion, no 2.2 delay, no impact on other spells)
wizards retain a massive edge on "unnoticed" dps.
They still top our parsing charts, they don't get summoned and killed when
using their ancient nukes. Saying everything summons now is a lie.
> Cheers!
> The Uber Nuker,
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~
Im.. somewhat suprised.. with your most recent offering. Im sure that
surprise wont last for long however.
-m
Steve
Who made this crap up? It is a long way from factual.
Tom Maho
> "The Uber Nuker" <larges...@world.com> wrote in message
> news:ch6ou6$nup$1...@services.kq.no...
>
>>Cheers!
>>The Uber Nuker,
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>
> Who made this crap up? It is a long way from factual.
>
>
OMG, you quoted that entire message for this? :-p
-Tom
Sean Kennedy
news:2po869F...@uni-berlin.de:
> "The Uber Nuker" <larges...@world.com> wrote in message
> news:ch6ou6$nup$1...@services.kq.no...
>> loot is mostly easily attainable for these classes. Something that
>> had a great impact on positioning was *summoning mobs*. This is
>> because a
> majority
>> of trash mobs *summon* just like demi-gods now, effectively making
>> root
> and
>> snare abilities obsolete and not needed to survive anymore.
>
> About 10% of mobs in Kod'taz, Yxtta randomly summon. Holy shit, what
> a majority!
It's enough to seriously cheese of some wizards :) To the point
where 2 of them actually maintained that their familiar should be
able to tank for them. "But if we have to cut our DPS down in
order not to pull aggro, that's balanced."
> Im.. somewhat suprised.. with your most recent offering. Im sure that
> surprise wont last for long however.
How could you be surprised by this? It's his same old cockeyed bs.
--
Arch Convoker Mairelon Snapbang
Feral Lord Bosra Snowclaw
Vacationing in the south of Faydwer
for the forseeable future.
an Laoch, 8th Level Tanker
-martin
news:Xns95583F...@207.225.159.8...
> > About 10% of mobs in Kod'taz, Yxtta randomly summon. Holy shit, what
> > a majority!
>
> It's enough to seriously cheese of some wizards :) To the point
> where 2 of them actually maintained that their familiar should be
> able to tank for them. "But if we have to cut our DPS down in
> order not to pull aggro, that's balanced."
Yeah, i sometimes solo on my shaman in kod'taz or yxtta.. so i feel the pain
when 1 summons =)
As for familiars tanking, go make a mage! Thats as retarded as something
Uber would say =)
> > Im.. somewhat suprised.. with your most recent offering. Im sure that
> > surprise wont last for long however.
>
> How could you be surprised by this? It's his same old cockeyed bs.
Well.. I guess it just wasnt as OTT as the normal shit he spouts out.
I mean he pulls the facts and figures out his ass, but hes not demanding
manaburn gets a 5min reuse timer etc this time =)
-m
GnecroVaz
wrote:
>3rd Place - Necromancer (votes: 553) - [snip] Only lacks skills in tanking
It depends on the situation and the AAs. I tap-tank adds in Takish (normal)
adventures, but I've got all the defensive and channeling AAs. However, I'd
probably die if I tried it in a Guk adventure or in T2+ PoP zones.
Graeme Faelban
news:5r7ej05vub3k5ibos...@4ax.com:
Necros get uber pets to tank for them anyway.
--
On Erollisi Marr in <Sanctuary of Marr>
Elder Graeme Faelban, Barbarian Prophet of 65 seasons
Tainniel Fleabane, Halfling Warrior of 32 seasons
Giluven, Wood Elf Druid of 29 seasons
Graeniel, High Elf Enchanter of 25 seasons
Vladesch
news:ch6ou6$nup$1...@services.kq.no...
Bards are horrible tanks. Ive seen a cleric do a far better job (and they
can hold agro)
I agree tho bard is a good class.
>
> 2nd Place - Beastlord (votes: 762) - The class that killed off Shamans,
> Mages and even tanks like SK's. This class is da pwn of da pwnz. 6 BSTs in
> an LDoN cant go wrong, and its fun too! Can't find a plate tank for
> minibosses? No problem, use a beastlord! With the amount of BST gear that
> is
> easily attainable and useable means they are real winners. You could
> probably make a whole guild and zerg everything thru PoP and still win ;-)
> BST's have neat buffs, AA's and has a dangerous pet with an awesome push
> capability /cough ;-)
BL are more in need of a nerf than bards.
>
> 3rd Place - Necromancer (votes: 553) - A nice class for any situation.
> With
> feign death and ressurection, group mana regen, group heal over time makes
> this class a real winner. Summoning mobs? No problem, just hit that FD!
> Don't wanna lose your uber camp? No problem, just park an FD necro there!
> Your group wiped? No problem necro ressurection is inc! Going low on mana?
> No problem there either! Only lacks skills in tanking but the necro just
> fd's escaping death. Have alot of variations and abilties to use in
> different situations, and has probably saved the day for many groups and
> raids many times.
Depends on what you mean by "winner", but as far as group desirability *post
GOD*, surely warriors, clerics and enchanters would be well ahead of necro.
>
> ---------------------------------------
>
> The Losers:
> These classes are losers due to the fact that they have one of the
> following
> issues:
> - Lack a variety of skills for different situations.
> - Their true abilities do not boost them to the degree in which they can
> maintain superiority.
> - Have been nerfed to a degree where their class ability have broken them.
> - Haven't played long enough so they have gimpy gear and aa's.
> These classes die often, and dying is the same as ~LOSING~!
>
> 1st Place - Wizard (votes: 479) - His dps is a waste since he cannot use
> it
> and survive the onslaught of summonings if he is to be comparable to other
> dps machines. Snare and root are unusable since everything summons now.
> Another factor is that the wizards dps is subject to drop to 0 (based on
> his
> manapool), whilst all other dps classes can yield damage indefinately as
> long as their HP > 0. There is no real need for the wizard class in any
> situation, except raiding basically and then he still usually dies if he
> does his job correctly ;-)
lol, this is just silly.
>
> 2nd Place - Druid (votes: 371) - Isn't a real loser though, only a semi
> loser. The backup healer & utility druid is still beneficial to this day,
> but then you would rather have a cleric really, since you are already
> wasting this spot in the group by not using a DPS machine instead. Another
> factor is that most druids specialized in evocation and not alteration,
> making their healing spells cost a bomb, and still while specialized in
> evocation their dps is a joke compared to real dps machines. Only grab
> this
> class if you cant find a cleric, or if you need a little bit of extra
> healing in addition to the cleric, or if you wont need so much healing to
> warrant a cleric and need more dps, or if you like to look at the woodelf
> model. The amount of summoning mobs really hurt the druids playability.
Druids have always been of limited use in raids. You definitly need 1 druid
for 9, POS, and ro debuffs. Druid can do pretty good damage with the 3 wave
aoe spells, even against a single mob. Its a particularly efficient spell.
>
> 3rd Place - Berserker (votes: 233) - Why? Because everyone else has 600+
> aa's and truckloads of neat gear and the berzerkers haven't been around
> long
> enough yet. You just know the berzerker has crap gear and most likely only
> a
> Baron. This will likely change in the future as more max out their aa's.
Shamans also arnt doing that great now. Considering so many mobs mitigate,
BL slow is usually as good. Fast encounters dont work well for their dots.
Not many mobs needs disease slow.
Rumbledor
< giant steaming pile snipped >
I know, I know, don't feed the troll and all that. I was scratching my head
wondering how he escaped from my killfile, when it occurred to me that he
used to be "Uber Nukah", if I'm not mistaken, and now is "Uber Nuker".
Would that cause it? Maybe I neglected to make it a permanent plonk. Also,
the new fake email address just continues to scream class, doesn't it?
He's a large part of what's wrong with EQ today. Too many immature idiots
running around spewing ill-informed class envy crap.
What a putz. Re-plonk.
--
Rumble
"The floggings will continue until morale improves."
-- Blackbeard
GnecroVaz
>GnecroVaz <N...@spam.okbuddy> wrote in
>news:5r7ej05vub3k5ibos...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:25:47 +0200, "The Uber Nuker"
>> <larges...@world.com> wrote:
>>
>>>3rd Place - Necromancer (votes: 553) - [snip] Only lacks skills in
>>>tanking
>>
>> It depends on the situation and the AAs. I tap-tank adds in Takish
>> (normal) adventures, but I've got all the defensive and channeling
>> AAs. However, I'd probably die if I tried it in a Guk adventure or in
>> T2+ PoP zones.
>>
>
>Necros get uber pets to tank for them anyway.
He's busy tanking another add. This is Takish we're talking about here.
Davian
"Rumbledor" <Rumb...@HotRemoveThisPartMail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns955878172A5FBR...@216.148.227.77...
> "The Uber Nuker" <larges...@world.com> wrote in
> news:ch6ou6$nup$1...@services.kq.no:
>
> < giant steaming pile snipped >
>
> I know, I know, don't feed the troll and all that. I was scratching my
head
> wondering how he escaped from my killfile, when it occurred to me that he
> used to be "Uber Nukah", if I'm not mistaken, and now is "Uber Nuker".
> Would that cause it? Maybe I neglected to make it a permanent plonk. Also,
> the new fake email address just continues to scream class, doesn't it?
>
Depends on how your newsreader treats killfiles. Some go by name, others
by e-mail address. Changing both was probably what escaped him.
> He's a large part of what's wrong with EQ today. Too many immature idiots
> running around spewing ill-informed class envy crap.
>
> What a putz. Re-plonk.
>
Eh, it's not a problem from today. The class bitching is actually way way
down from what it used to be. Back when Brad was posting in this newsgroup
occasionally, we would have one of these threads a week. They would be
serious too, where I suspect this one is at least half troll.
Its what happens when you have a system where you choose at character
creation which class you are going to be, and then have to spend hundreds of
hours building your character in a changing game. Whether recent changes
have made your class less fun to play or not, due to the immense time
investment, most feel that they can't just reroll and start over. So thier
only recourse is to complain until the issues, real or imagined, get
fixed... or until they learn to live with the game as it currently stands.
Not that this means Ubernuker isn't a putz.
--
Dearic - Level 65 Overlord on E'ci
Talynne - Level 65 Deceiver on E'ci
Graeme Faelban
news:MyIZc.2523$Wv5...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
>
But, it can be entertaining reading.
Tyas
> "Davian" <dav...@nospammindspring.com> wrote in
> news:MyIZc.2523$Wv5...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
>
>>Not that this means Ubernuker isn't a putz.
>>
>
>
> But, it can be entertaining reading.
>
Next time I start playing EQ I'll have to remember to tell the bard to
offtank my unmezzables.
Also ought to tell the uberguilds to dump all those worthless wizards.
Can't be of any use to them.
Better tell Lance to stop, he's apparently already lost.
One thing does occur to me however.
You can't win, if you concede defeat before the race begins.
Tyasa, 27/13 Mithra MNK/THF of gimpieness, who according to the WHM
parse outdamaged an entire PARTY after two peeps said they should look
for someone who was actually playing an effective job combo.
>^.^<
Lance Berg
Tyas wrote:
> Graeme Faelban wrote:
>
>> "Davian" <dav...@nospammindspring.com> wrote in
>> news:MyIZc.2523$Wv5...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
>>
>>> Not that this means Ubernuker isn't a putz.
>>>
>>
>>
>> But, it can be entertaining reading.
>>
> I nearly fell out of my chair at the 'Bard=Plate tank" comment...
>
Yep yep, that was very amusing.
> Next time I start playing EQ I'll have to remember to tell the bard to
> offtank my unmezzables.
>
Good plan!
> Also ought to tell the uberguilds to dump all those worthless wizards.
> Can't be of any use to them.
>
Nope, nobody wants wizards, move along, nothing to see here.
> Better tell Lance to stop, he's apparently already lost.
>
Now this one I knew going in; the class isn't finished yet, and they
apparantly decided after the Beastlord debacle that the safe way to
approach things is to build it wimpy and then add power, instead of
building it too powerful and then nerfing.
At the moment, I can't imagine what use anyone is going to have for a
class that does less DPS than other DPS classes and contributes only
snare (like half the classes in the game) and Stun (which most mobs in
high end are immune to)
However, the UN reasoning behing the "lost" for the class is not
specific to the class, rather its that because its a recently added
class, so a typical member is going to have fewer points in the class
AA's. Which is ludicrous, as most of the class AA's aren't particularly
useful looking anyway, and you can easily find berserkers with 200 AA at
65 while you can easily find members of other classes at 65 with only 10aa.
> One thing does occur to me however.
> You can't win, if you concede defeat before the race begins.
>
> Tyasa, 27/13 Mithra MNK/THF of gimpieness, who according to the WHM
> parse outdamaged an entire PARTY after two peeps said they should look
> for someone who was actually playing an effective job combo.
> >^.^<
I recall a similar moment with my mage, way back when; I crashed out,
and when I came back in, I engaged the mob the party was on and didn't
accept the invite till after it died. KS'd em, then hit follow, and
said "any more questions about where the DPS is coming from?"
And that didn't count the damage that the DS I'd cast on the MT was doing!
Grage, 55 Berzerk, Luclin
Splendid One, 65 Mage, Firiona Vie
fooboy
> news:ch6ou6$nup$1...@services.kq.no:
>
> < giant steaming pile snipped >
>
> I know, I know, don't feed the troll and all that. I was scratching my head
> wondering how he escaped from my killfile, when it occurred to me that he
> used to be "Uber Nukah", if I'm not mistaken, and now is "Uber Nuker".
> Would that cause it? Maybe I neglected to make it a permanent plonk. Also,
> the new fake email address just continues to scream class, doesn't it?
>
> He's a large part of what's wrong with EQ today. Too many immature idiots
> running around spewing ill-informed class envy crap.
>
Pretty much that and buying plat to buy oobah gear, and then
complaining about their class. The wizards sucked according to him
before, why didn't he roll up a bard?
If you want a challenge, try the rogue.
Ben Sisson
name Mary.P...@perfection.com (Mary Poppins):
>larges...@world.com (The Uber Nuker) wrote in <ch6ou6$nup$1
>@services.kq.no>:
>
>>The Losers:
>
>How could Monks not be the biggest losers of all?
>
>No utility.
>Pet pulling and bard pulling have replaced them for all serious pulling
>situations.
>
>They can't tank as in take damage or taunt well enough and they get one
>rounded to death so often they just aren't good tanks.
>
>Beastlords and Zerks have replaced them as "second class" DPS...
>
>Monks are just FUBAR.
Interestingly they do every single thing there except taunt *better*
than rangers, who have no alternative utility to make up for it.
--
Evil Goblin Cleric: "But using the goblins as guinea pigs is wreaking
havoc with goblin morale!"
Lich Overlord: "Hmm, well, I've got two words for goblin morale...
goblin zombies."
Evil Goblin Cleric: "Good point."
- Order of the Stick #96
Melduhr
<ilkhanik...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>A thousand monkeys banging on keyboards posted the following under the
>name Mary.P...@perfection.com (Mary Poppins):
>
>>larges...@world.com (The Uber Nuker) wrote in <ch6ou6$nup$1
>>@services.kq.no>:
>>
>>>The Losers:
>>
>>How could Monks not be the biggest losers of all?
>>
>>No utility.
>>Pet pulling and bard pulling have replaced them for all serious pulling
>>situations.
>>
>>They can't tank as in take damage or taunt well enough and they get one
>>rounded to death so often they just aren't good tanks.
>>
>>Beastlords and Zerks have replaced them as "second class" DPS...
>>
>>Monks are just FUBAR.
>
>Interestingly they do every single thing there except taunt *better*
>than rangers, who have no alternative utility to make up for it.
Rangers have no utility ?
Travelling.
Ask the Cleric moving to Barindu about SoE and Camo.
Want to meet some friends in Ssra basement with a
Berserker? - Have fun crossing Mons Letalis without
Levitationt,take the risk of invis dropping or let the
group pull the way free in Ssra,all in all with my Ranger I save
the group a great deal of time,maybe this should go in
the dps paragraph.
What about Tracking?
Playing mostly my Cleric lately,I really miss it in Ldon,and
even see group members asking to get a Ranger for Tracking.
Last Mountain Trials I did,I was constantly asked to check
it for named.
Grouped with the "Holy Trinity",no Druid,no Shammy?
Regrowth becomes valuable.
No Mage,no Druid in group? - Damageshields.
Pulling?
Sure,indoor pullings "sucks",but outdoor,thanks to Harmony,
Rangers make fine pullers.
DPS ?
Do you really think,there are many Monks or Berserkers who
do more damage than a Ranger with a Darkglint Blade?
Last MM Raid I was on,I remember when 6 Rangers turned on TS
at the same time,suddenly you could see the hps of MM begin
to drop,sure its anecdotal.
Problem lies not in Rangers underpowered,its that other classes
are severely overpowered,like Bards,Enchanters and Beastlords,
who all get buffs which benefit both,casters AND melees,especially
Beastlords,I wonder do they really need a mana regeneration buff?
Uland 65 Hunter
Mheldur 64 Cleric
nos...@nowhere.com
> Who made this crap up? It is a long way from factual.
I'm not sure who is worse: The OP for posting a lengthy whine, or you
for quoting the whole thing only to respond with ONE LINE.
Ben Sisson
>On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 18:41:50 GMT, Ben Sisson
><ilkhanik...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>>A thousand monkeys banging on keyboards posted the following under the
>>name Mary.P...@perfection.com (Mary Poppins):
>>
>>>larges...@world.com (The Uber Nuker) wrote in <ch6ou6$nup$1
>>>@services.kq.no>:
>>>
>>>>The Losers:
>>>
>>>How could Monks not be the biggest losers of all?
>>>
>>>No utility.
>>>Pet pulling and bard pulling have replaced them for all serious pulling
>>>situations.
>>>
>>>They can't tank as in take damage or taunt well enough and they get one
>>>rounded to death so often they just aren't good tanks.
>>>
>>>Beastlords and Zerks have replaced them as "second class" DPS...
>>>
>>>Monks are just FUBAR.
>>
>>Interestingly they do every single thing there except taunt *better*
>>than rangers, who have no alternative utility to make up for it.
>
>Rangers have no utility ?
No, they have utility that others do better. That aside, I was
responding only to their comparisons to poor, poor monks, but if you
want to go further, I surely can. But just to refresh your memory:
Monks are #2 melee dps with a big lead on #3, rangers are #4 at best
and that barely ahead of those below them.
Monks have an unresistable lull indoors and outdoors, rangers were
told unresistable harmony outdoors was too powerful and had it nerfed
Monks have FD to split what can't be lulled, rangers have real death
then the real pullers take over.
Monks have two invuln discs. Rangers have one.
Monks have melee enhancing discs. Rangers have zero.
Monks take damage as well or better than rangers.
What do rangers have to make up for all this? Snare, track, and invis?
Ability to do suboptimal damage from outside melee range other than
once an hour? Pred, SoT, and CoR? You'd have to be a retard to think
they compare.
Take a group of five people, all the basics are set. A ranger and a
monk are looking for a group. Which do you take? Everyone takes the
monk. And why shouldn't they? For all their bellyaching about the
mitigation nerf, monks are still in the "have" category.
Hell let's see if you'd take a ranger over *any* class.
Bard? Rather have the bard, for the pulling ability alone. The only
time I'd ever take ranger over bard is if I already *had* a bard.
Beastlord? Grossly superior dps, mana regen? Gimme the BL.
Cleric? You'd take the ranger for normal LDoNs and other trivial stuff
just to get it over with faster, otherwise cleric.
Druid? Druid every time. The druid can do nearly everything the ranger
can and far more.
Enchanter? Gee, I wonder....
Magician? Better dps, offtank ability. Take the mage.
Necro? *Much* better dps, snare, ghetto mez, and other stuff. Take the
necro.
Paladin? Better heals, tanking, ghetto rez.. gimme paladin
Rogue? The best melee dpser, best CR, best scout (which used to be
rangers definition)? No brainer.
Shaman? They hold aggro and tank as well or better than rangers mainly
because they bring their own slow. Gimme the shaman, unless I already
have one.
Shadowknight? Nearly equal dps, tank ability, snare, pet pulling... SK
every time.
Warrior? Another tank who's melee dps is only a smidgeon below the
ranger's. Gimme the warrior.
Wizard? Better burst dps and again a snare along with travelling
niceties. Gimme the wizard.
So when do you take the ranger? When you're up against trivial
opposition, like normal LDoNs. When for some bizarre reason you can't
find a druid, necro, shadowknight, bard, or wizard to snare. When you
want someone to do out of melee range dps and there's no casters
available.
I liked when Ashlanne posted a "fun" thread in all the class forums a
little while ago. Most forums just had fun with it, the ranger forum
attacked the thread as a slap in the face (no dev has responded to a
ranger thread in many months now, unlike most other classes) to the
point it was locked. Then there was the bitter joking about the new AA
ranger are getting with OoW. Ooh, sure rangers are a bit down on
themselves, we'll give them, I KNOW, DOUBLE FORAGE! That oughtta quiet
them down....
Rangers are *pissed off*. Other classes have been in that position
from time to time so its not anything new. Rogues in original EQ.
Enchanters in Velious. Warriors in PoP. Rangers today.
And it is especially galling to see so much being farmed out to
Berserkers.
>Travelling.
>Ask the Cleric moving to Barindu about SoE and Camo.
No one invites the ranger for their invis.
>Want to meet some friends in Ssra basement with a
>Berserker? - Have fun crossing Mons Letalis without
>Levitation
Because soe is so hard to come by? No one invites the ranger for lev.
>t,take the risk of invis dropping or let the
>group pull the way free in Ssra
So is the ranger going to solo everything down there? So what if the
ranger can get there alone, everyone else needs to too and most caster
classes can invis.
>What about Tracking?
Oh you mean that thing druids can do better now? That thing that is
useless in later zones because so much is untrackable? That thing that
is completely trivialized by SEQ and MQ?
>Playing mostly my Cleric lately,I really miss it in Ldon,and
>even see group members asking to get a Ranger for Tracking.
I can't remember the last time someone actually cared about named in
LDoNs.
>Grouped with the "Holy Trinity",no Druid,no Shammy?
>Regrowth becomes valuable.
Regrowth is virtually useless. That is a kunark era druid spell.
You're against mobs that hit for high triple digits or over 1k, where
do you think 15 more hp per 6 seconds is going to matter? There isn't
even any downtime to reduce anymore. I can't remember the last time I
memmed regrowth.
>
>No Mage,no Druid in group? - Damageshields.
Yeah that 24 damage is going to turn the tides. Woo we're #4 in damage
shields, that oughtta get us some groups!
>
>Pulling?
Why bother? Monks and bards are infinitely better. Pet classes are
better.
>Sure,indoor pullings "sucks",but outdoor,thanks to Harmony,
>Rangers make fine pullers.
And monks, bards, pet classes all make better pullers. Not to mention
Harmony is capped and resistable.
>
>DPS ?
>Do you really think,there are many Monks or Berserkers who
>do more damage than a Ranger with a Darkglint Blade?
If the monk has their weapons from GoD (Demerix etc)? Of course they
do. Rogues do more with pre-time weapons; in fact GoD equipped rogues
outdps rangers who are *using* TS. All the dps casters do plenty more
while they have mana, especially if they don't have to throttle too
much. Druids do more. SK and warriors can do more if they've gotten
their offensive aa, though usually they're very slightly less. Do we
need to have our GoD weapon just to catch up to other classes pre-GoD?
>Last MM Raid I was on,I remember when 6 Rangers turned on TS
>at the same time,suddenly you could see the hps of MM begin
>to drop,sure its anecdotal.
So we are to depend on two minutes of worthwhile dps every hour?
>Problem lies not in Rangers underpowered
That's exactly where the problem lies. When your class has no unique
ability to bring to a group, does nothing someone else can't do better
and is inferior in its stated role (dps) compared to classes which
aren't even in that role, then there's a problem.
Steve
<nos...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:413a6d5b$0$65564$a186...@newsreader.visi.com...
Next time I will post a 500 word replay just so you can be happy.
Just to be fair I can sum you up in one word..... loser.
nos...@nowhere.com
Whether or not I'm a loser doesn't change the fact that you're a
dumbass.
Steve
<nos...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:413a9327$0$65604$a186...@newsreader.visi.com...
So easy to provoke the small mind.
Are you this anal in every area of your life?
Lance Berg
Ben Sisson wrote:
> Bard? Rather have the bard, for the pulling ability alone. The only
> time I'd ever take ranger over bard is if I already *had* a bard.
> Beastlord? Grossly superior dps, mana regen? Gimme the BL.
> Cleric? You'd take the ranger for normal LDoNs and other trivial stuff
> just to get it over with faster, otherwise cleric.
> Druid? Druid every time. The druid can do nearly everything the ranger
> can and far more.
> Enchanter? Gee, I wonder....
> Magician? Better dps, offtank ability. Take the mage.
> Necro? *Much* better dps, snare, ghetto mez, and other stuff. Take the
> necro.
> Paladin? Better heals, tanking, ghetto rez.. gimme paladin
> Rogue? The best melee dpser, best CR, best scout (which used to be
> rangers definition)? No brainer.
> Shaman? They hold aggro and tank as well or better than rangers mainly
> because they bring their own slow. Gimme the shaman, unless I already
> have one.
> Shadowknight? Nearly equal dps, tank ability, snare, pet pulling... SK
> every time.
> Warrior? Another tank who's melee dps is only a smidgeon below the
> ranger's. Gimme the warrior.
> Wizard? Better burst dps and again a snare along with travelling
> niceties. Gimme the wizard.
You forgot to list Berserker. Lets see, berserker has snare... so does
ranger. Berserker has stuns... if the mobs are stunnable, edge
berserker. But DPS is about equal, and berserker can do nothing but
snare and stun; even the marginal utility rangers can provide in terms
of raising group melee attack values, providing SOW, being able to root
mez, have got to give the edge to ranger.
> And it is especially galling to see so much being farmed out to
> Berserkers.
>
Like what? I'm really lost on this comment. Berserkers have gotten
small boosts, but seem to me to still be way behind the curve.
Oh maybe you're pissed about Simmering Rage et al. Thats a damage
enhancer focus effect found on some berserker items that increases
damage done... with throwing only.
Or perhaps its getting criticals. Oooh. Thats a big 2.5% boost to DPS
right there... and if you look at the AAs the class gets its pretty
clear that not having crits was an oversight (aa that makes every blow
that lands a crit... when you don't have crits?)
>>Want to meet some friends in Ssra basement with a
>>Berserker? - Have fun crossing Mons Letalis without
>>Levitation
>
Just got a call last night to come join guild in Ssraa basement. Drank
SOW potion, ran thru NL et al, took about 5% of my hp in damage crossing
Mons Letalis without being careful, ran thru the Grey and zoned in at
full hp and two bubs of air left (too lazy/cheap to get EB item thus
far, and no ranger handy to EB me).
I took more damage during ring war 10 last night, repeatedly running
from the stream to the spawn near the POK book; up to 10% of my hp lost
everytime pop was over there and I didnt have Lev.
>
> Because soe is so hard to come by? No one invites the ranger for lev.
>
Yep, lev is nice no question, but its hardly a show stopper. If it was,
we'd all be begging necros for MGB DMF in POK, instead of laughing
politely when they announce it in the hopes of scoring a MGB Virtue in
exchange
Grage, 55 Berserk, Luclin
Melduhr
<ilkhanik...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
I covered this point,let me quote from my first post:
"Sure,indoor pullings "sucks",but outdoor,thanks to Harmony,
Rangers make fine pullers."
Harmony working indoors would be the number 1 on *my*
wishlist,not better tanking abilities or more damage output.
>Monks have two invuln discs. Rangers have one.
>Monks have melee enhancing discs. Rangers have zero.
Guardian of the Forest.
>Monks take damage as well or better than rangers.
Depends more on Equipment.
>
>What do rangers have to make up for all this? Snare, track, and invis?
>Ability to do suboptimal damage from outside melee range other than
>once an hour? Pred, SoT, and CoR? You'd have to be a retard to think
>they compare.
Make up for what ? A little more dps and better pulling abilities?
As you said,Rangers get snare,track,invis,some not too bad buffs.
Balanced if you asked me.
>
>Take a group of five people, all the basics are set. A ranger and a
>monk are looking for a group. Which do you take? Everyone takes the
>monk. And why shouldn't they? For all their bellyaching about the
>mitigation nerf, monks are still in the "have" category.
I made up some groups in my initial post,where rangers can be useful.
Again,see my initial post about group composition,I dont see your
point here,comparing Rangers with Clerics for example makes no sense.
>I liked when Ashlanne posted a "fun" thread in all the class forums a
>little while ago. Most forums just had fun with it, the ranger forum
>attacked the thread as a slap in the face (no dev has responded to a
>ranger thread in many months now, unlike most other classes) to the
>point it was locked. Then there was the bitter joking about the new AA
>ranger are getting with OoW. Ooh, sure rangers are a bit down on
>themselves, we'll give them, I KNOW, DOUBLE FORAGE! That oughtta quiet
>them down....
>
>Rangers are *pissed off*. Other classes have been in that position
>from time to time so its not anything new. Rogues in original EQ.
>Enchanters in Velious. Warriors in PoP. Rangers today.
>
>And it is especially galling to see so much being farmed out to
>Berserkers.
>
>
>>Travelling.
>>Ask the Cleric moving to Barindu about SoE and Camo.
>
>No one invites the ranger for their invis.
True,I didnt say Rangers are invited *exclusively* for their invis.
>>Want to meet some friends in Ssra basement with a
>>Berserker? - Have fun crossing Mons Letalis without
>>Levitation
>
>Because soe is so hard to come by? No one invites the ranger for lev.
True,I didnt say Rangers are invited *exclusively* for their Lev. :)
>>t,take the risk of invis dropping or let the
>>group pull the way free in Ssra
>
>So is the ranger going to solo everything down there? So what if the
>ranger can get there alone, everyone else needs to too and most caster
>classes can invis.
I was comparing Berserker to Rangers,there are other classes like
Pallies who require the group to leave their peculiar camp in some
circumstances.
And where did I talk about soloing?
>>What about Tracking?
>
>Oh you mean that thing druids can do better now? That thing that is
>useless in later zones because so much is untrackable? That thing that
>is completely trivialized by SEQ and MQ?
Druid Tracking 255 is a bug not feature.
Quote from Patch message 28.April:
More Npc's in Qinimi now leave tracks for trackers to find.
SEQ and MQ? - Show EQ ,I dont know the other,and I thought
we were talking about playing honestly,not using cheat programms.
>
>>Playing mostly my Cleric lately,I really miss it in Ldon,and
>>even see group members asking to get a Ranger for Tracking.
>
>I can't remember the last time someone actually cared about named in
>LDoNs.
Thats just you,I have other experiences.
Last adv I did ,I found a pretty useless looking back item,
bit it gave 2500 Tribute points,you dont care for 2500 TPs?
>>Grouped with the "Holy Trinity",no Druid,no Shammy?
>>Regrowth becomes valuable.
>
>Regrowth is virtually useless. That is a kunark era druid spell.
>You're against mobs that hit for high triple digits or over 1k, where
>do you think 15 more hp per 6 seconds is going to matter? There isn't
>even any downtime to reduce anymore. I can't remember the last time I
>memmed regrowth.
Its 20hp per 6 second,helps the cleric not to waste mana with
overhealing,lowest heal I have memmed with my cleric is about
1200 hps,so every time I heal an Int caster at 80% I waste mana.
Regrowth does the job better,maybe its just me but I like all members
of my group staying at 100% health.
>
>>
>>No Mage,no Druid in group? - Damageshields.
>
>Yeah that 24 damage is going to turn the tides. Woo we're #4 in damage
>shields, that oughtta get us some groups!
True,I didnt say Rangers are invited *exclusively* for their DS. :)
>>Pulling?
>
>Why bother? Monks and bards are infinitely better. Pet classes are
>better.
>
>
>>Sure,indoor pullings "sucks",but outdoor,thanks to Harmony,
>>Rangers make fine pullers.
>
>And monks, bards, pet classes all make better pullers. Not to mention
>Harmony is capped and resistable.
Playing with a SK friend most of the time,I know very well that
pet pulling is slow,harmony pulling is much faster.
Same for FD splitting,it slows the group down a lot.
Cant remember when I had Harmony resisted the last time,and
you know very well that it is extremly rare to be resisted.
>
>>
>>DPS ?
>>Do you really think,there are many Monks or Berserkers who
>>do more damage than a Ranger with a Darkglint Blade?
>
>If the monk has their weapons from GoD (Demerix etc)? Of course they
>do. Rogues do more with pre-time weapons; in fact GoD equipped rogues
>outdps rangers who are *using* TS. All the dps casters do plenty more
>while they have mana, especially if they don't have to throttle too
>much. Druids do more. SK and warriors can do more if they've gotten
>their offensive aa, though usually they're very slightly less. Do we
>need to have our GoD weapon just to catch up to other classes pre-GoD?
I have my doubts about parses,everyone uses Yalp,but it doesnt
count magic damage in the right way,how can you be sure that
it calculates the other damage right ?
Druids maybe do more - as long as they have mana.
Other point is that Rangers can stay out of AE range from mobs,
which worked nicely yesterday doing Terris Thule.
So here is a very unique abilitiy of Rangers,they can sustain a
high damage output endless without taking any damage.
>
>
>>Last MM Raid I was on,I remember when 6 Rangers turned on TS
>>at the same time,suddenly you could see the hps of MM begin
>>to drop,sure its anecdotal.
>
>So we are to depend on two minutes of worthwhile dps every hour?
Well its just another point,but you cant say its worth nothing.
>>Problem lies not in Rangers underpowered
>
>That's exactly where the problem lies. When your class has no unique
>ability to bring to a group, does nothing someone else can't do better
>and is inferior in its stated role (dps) compared to classes which
>aren't even in that role, then there's a problem.
As mentioned before,I dont trust parses,so I have to rely on my
ingame experience,and this tells me that Rangers are a gereat dps
class.
Other *anecdotal* point is ,that I noticed doing Ldons with 2 Rangers
(Hunters of course) mobs tend to die much faster than in the usual
group.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And keep in mind,you are playing the very high level game,while
I am playing more the mid level game up to pre elemetal raids,(hard)
Ldons and rarely doing GoD trials.
Uland 65,193 Hunter
Mheldur 64 cleric
Melduhr
wrote:
We were talking about utilities(Plural) and not about levitation.
Uland 65 Hunter
Lance Berg
Melduhr wrote:
> We were talking about utilities(Plural) and not about levitation.
>
You quoted 85 lines to write one line.
And the 85 lines you quoted didn't support what you wrote.
_I_ snipped down out of a 206 line post, paring things down to just the
topics I wanted to respond to.. and about half my post was stuff I'd
written.
The overall post I was replying to was indeed about a number of
utilities, however, I personally was talking specifically about
levitation, and even more so, about levitation to cross Mons Letalis to
get to Ssraa basement as a berserker; it amused me because I'd -just-
done -precisely- that. And it took me 5% of my hp bar to do so, and I
was fully healed via regen before I reached said basement.
SO my point was that that specific example was... silly.
Ever helpful, I then included a much better example, a raid this same
character was in, same level, where he was regularly taking 10% of his
HP in damage running across terrain unlev'd, and running directly into
combat with no chance to heal up before engaging. A ranger casting leve
on me regularly would have been of significant assistance. (I didn't
say so explicitly, but I think you could have read that part between the
lines, unless I've overestimated your intelligence)
SO, I was supporting your position, while objecting to your specific
example.
If you look up higher in my post, instead of just at this single issue,
you'll see I also noted that in the list of classes you'd rather have
than a ranger, Berserkers were left out. And after thinking about it a
bit, I agreed; you -wouldn't- rather have a berserker than a ranger.
Why? Because of the utility edge that rangers have.
SO I was arguing Your Point.
Posting complaining that I didn't get your point, implying that I
somehow was arguing against it because I mentioned that Levitation for a
Berserker on the way to ML was not a big deal, seems contrary on your part.
Whats the third point I made? Well, it was questioning the idea that
berserkers are getting all sorts of boosts that rangers should be
getting. Here I didn't make much of a point of any sort, I was actually
asking what the heck the guy I was responding to (remember, I didn't
reply to you directly, I responded to a guy that responded to you,
namely Ben Sisson) might mean. I think I left the impression, though,
that I disagreed, that Berserkers weren't getting all sorts of help that
rangers need. Again, seems, if anything, that I was SUPPORTING your
position.
I advise you read more carefully and try to figure out what the person
you are responding to is saying, before you jump on him like a mad dog.
And I think you'll find that the practices of snipping down to the
relevant portions of a post before replying, and of replying to each
point directly under the portion of the post where the matter is
discussed, will help you to do so, in addition to doing your part to
help reduce clutter on usenet.
"Too late," many of you are saying, "too late; Lance you just wrote 85
lines* in response to one line, how does that reduce clutter?"
Well, at least the signal to noise ratio is better.
Grage, 55 Berserker
Grager, 6 Ranger
Luclin
*didn't count the lines, 85 is a sheer guess, although it would be
funniest if it worked out to that exact count
nos...@nowhere.com
> So easy to provoke the small mind.
Yes, you were easy to provoke.
> Are you this anal in every area of your life?
I have a self-diagnosed mildish case of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder
which does, in fact, make me anal in several areas of my life. This
plays to my advantage in some respects, though; as a long-time
software engineer, I think it's an advantage: my personal experience
tends to support my conclussion that people without at least mild OCD
tend to make poor, sloppy software engineers.
In any case, don't be so offended that I called you out for quoting a
large message just to insert a single line comment. It was mildly
offensive, but hey, at least you learned something valuable from it,
right?
hughes
RANGER .Hard ldons , god groups, pop dosent matter. I LOOK for a RANGER . I
also LOOK for a cleric , a slower(any of 3 will do), a tank (any of 3 will
do), a crowd control for some places (bard or chanter), a puller for some
places (not always needed), AND a RANGER.
I want from rangers TRACKING, SNARING, GREAT BUFFS ,maybe weaponshield once
in a blue moon , but the bread and butter day in and day out is DPS. And a
ranger does that just fine.
You just dont deserve any more loving. Sorry.
CLERIC
BARD
BEASTLORD
are all over powered. Rangers are somewhere in the next three :p you are
more powerfull and loved than nine other classes at a bare minimum.
So quit whining :)
Aruvqan
> You just dont deserve any more loving. Sorry.
>
> CLERIC
> BARD
> BEASTLORD
>
> are all over powered. Rangers are somewhere in the next three :p you are
> more powerfull and loved than nine other classes at a bare minimum.
>
> So quit whining :)
>
>
*sniff* but I have a cute cleric, she needs all the love she can
get...[especially in the form of Po9, KEI and spiritual dominion...]
Ben Sisson
You are a fool.
Graeme Faelban
news:nnvij0lo1ec9pgpci...@4ax.com:
A ranger is usually at the top of the DPS list on most raid mobs we hit.
Frank E
<ilkhanik...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>Take a group of five people, all the basics are set. A ranger and a
>monk are looking for a group. Which do you take? Everyone takes the
>monk. And why shouldn't they? For all their bellyaching about the
>mitigation nerf, monks are still in the "have" category.
>
>Hell let's see if you'd take a ranger over *any* class.
>
>Bard? Rather have the bard, for the pulling ability alone. The only
>time I'd ever take ranger over bard is if I already *had* a bard.
That says more about bards than rangers though. <g> I can't think of
very many situations where I wouldn't take a bard to round out any
group.
<snippage>
>So when do you take the ranger? When you're up against trivial
>opposition, like normal LDoNs. When for some bizarre reason you can't
>find a druid, necro, shadowknight, bard, or wizard to snare. When you
>want someone to do out of melee range dps and there's no casters
>available.
In the context of LDoN (normal and hard), which is about the only time
i worry about filling up a group, Ranger is always at the top of my
list of classes to recruit if the basics are covered. For a normal
LDoN, they bring more to the table than almost any class; DPS,
offtanking, snap-agro, tracking, snare, crowd control. For a hard
LDoN, tracking and 'good enuf' DPS is all they need to make them a
worthwhile addition to a group.
Admittedly, there's other classes that can fill a DPS slot (and do
better DPS) but I still prefer the utility of a ranger. The second
class I'll look for to fill a DPS slot is a necro, for basically the
same reasons.
Rgds, Frank
Ben Sisson
>A ranger is usually at the top of the DPS list on most raid mobs we hit.
My last post on this topic, just to illustrate how wrong you guys are
at the high end. This is c&p from steelwarriors. DPS class MY ASS.
You're being fooled by rangers using elemental bows before anyone else
has any.
...
Pixtt Xxeric Kex(Elapsed time: 422 seconds)
Mitnick - Rogue - 113493 damage - 269 DPS (tacvi dagger)
Fureur - Rogue - 111608 damage - 264 DPS (tacvi dagger)
Celsius - Magician - 95530 damage - 226 DPS (pet dps included)
Zwickel - Rogue - 85533 damage - 203 DPS (txevu dagger)
Goliano - Wizard - 84217 damage - 200 DPS
Anthas - Ranger - 83367 damage - 198 DPS
Frezzer - Wizard - 82640 damage - 196 DPS
Nineveh - Wizard - 72369 damage - 171 DPS
Zorrbald - Monk - 72367 damage - 171 DPS (cyno wraps+shinai)
Kalafandras - Wizard - 71070 damage - 168 DPS
Zun`Muram Yihst Vor(Elapsed Time: 297 seconds)
Note: Was turned on enrage, so that probably cost some lost DPS on the
melee side of things.
Mitnick - Rogue - 134683 damage - 453 DPS (26/21 dagger)
Zwickel - Rogue - 107412 damage - 362 DPS (26/21 dagger)
Stikka - Rogue - 100156 damage - 337 DPS (22 dam dagger)
Ztroke - Rogue - 96228 damage - 324 DPS (23 dam dagger)
Zorrbald - Monk - 89885 damage - 303 DPS (cyno wraps+shinai)
Frezzer - Wizard - 86605 damage - 292 DPS
Gyldendahl - Wizard - 79867 damage - 269 DPS
Fureur - Rogue - 78124 damage - 263 DPS (26/21 dagger but died)
Nineveh - Wizard - 76061 damage - 256 DPS
Nomics - Magician - 68122 damage - 229 DPS
Dvoin M`sha (Elapsed time: 192 seconds)
Mitnick - Rogue - 99913 damage - 520 DPS
Zwickel - Rogue - 87931 damage - 458 DPS
Fureur - Rogue - 84528 damage - 440 DPS
Nineveh - Wizard - 67089 damage - 349 DPS
Nomics - Magician - 66131 damage - 344 DPS
Rayo - Monk - 58074 damage - 302 DPS
Anthas - Ranger - 51539 damage - 268 DPS
Jander - Ranger - 48581 damage - 253 DPS
Timmok - Warrior - 46938 damage - 244 DPS (<-- used fellstrike)
Koomarthenn - Warrior - 41669 damage - 217 DPS
Ptav M`sha(Elapsed time: 182 seconds)
Mitnick - Rogue - 80801 damage - 444 DPS (<--- NO discs used on this,
but bard+FA+fero+SoB-click)
Zwickel - Rogue - 75399 damage - 414 DPS
Anthas - Ranger - 72354 damage - 398 DPS (<--- Trueshot)
Fureur - Rogue - 69603 damage - 382 DPS
Thorbiorgs - Ranger - 62534 damage - 344 DPS (Maybe Trueshot?)
Nomics - Magician - 61907 damage - 340 DPS (<--- including pet dmg)
Nineveh - Wizard - 57829 damage - 318 DPS
Varhauz - Ranger - 57031 damage - 313 DPS (Maybe Trueshot?)
Rayo - Monk - 48109 damage - 264 DPS
Jander - Ranger - 45252 damage - 249 DPS
And finally the last one that made all our rangers cry and talking
about rerolling as rogues
Mnat M`sha (Elapsed time: 123 seconds)
Mitnick - Rogue - 83950 damage - 683 DPS (!!!) Discs+Bard+FA+Fero..
but still very very sick
Fureur - Rogue - 66275 damage - 539 DPS
Thunderbird - Wizard - 57746 damage - 469 DPS
Nomics - Magician - 48346 damage - 393 DPS (including pet damage)
Gyldendahl - Wizard - 47540 damage - 387 DPS
Goliano - Wizard - 44847 damage - 365 DPS
Rayo - Monk - 40496 damage - 329 DPS (inktuta 2hander)
Celsius - Magician - 37512 damage - 305 DPS
Zorrbald - Monk - 36278 damage - 295 DPS
Karde - Monk - 35608 damage - 289 DPS
--
Irate Customer: "You don't have very good customer service!"
The Gord: "I'm a reflection of that I'm forced to deal with. You aren't a very good customer."
-martin
news:uurkj0ttqiuulv2mb...@4ax.com...
> Monks are #2 melee dps with a big lead on #3, rangers are #4 at best
> and that barely ahead of those below them.
We dont have a big lead on anybody man. On the odd occasions ive bothered
to parse (potime or qvic named) the top 1 is always a rogue (usually top 2,
but not guranteed) and the rest of the top 5 varies between rogue, monk and
ranger. Yes, we have some rangers who beat some monks on parses (but the
names are different each time). Thats including all nukes, proc damage,
criticals etc. Doesnt include casters though.
> Monks have an unresistable lull indoors and outdoors, rangers were
> told unresistable harmony outdoors was too powerful and had it nerfed
Monk lull wasnt supposed to be unresistable. It was bugged in its initial
state, and when they said it would soon be fixed (nerfed) people shrieked!
> Monks have FD to split what can't be lulled, rangers have real death
> then the real pullers take over.
Or you can kite the add while the group kills the other one. FD splitting
can be a slow process if the luck doesnt go your way...
> Monks have two invuln discs. Rangers have one.
On the same timer, for shorter duration, with far less utility. Id happily
give you voidance and whirlwhind, for weaponshield.
> Monks have melee enhancing discs. Rangers have zero.
We have "damage enhancing" discs. Just like rangers do with TS.
> Monks take damage as well or better than rangers.
Downright untrue.
> Take a group of five people, all the basics are set. A ranger and a
> monk are looking for a group. Which do you take? Everyone takes the
> monk. And why shouldn't they? For all their bellyaching about the
> mitigation nerf, monks are still in the "have" category.
In my experiences people would take the ranger, 9 times in 10. LFG, no
groups, no progress is why I started leveling alts on different accounts in
the first place. So that i wasn't reliant on LFG and other people. Now I
don't need other people to exp, but I do need to lug my shaman as a minimum
around anywhere i go.
> Beastlord? Grossly superior dps, mana regen? Gimme the BL.
Yeah well they need nerfing hah. I dont see the top beast parse ever beating
the top ranger parse (and our beast/SK's are usually amongst the lowest on
raid parses)
> Druid? Druid every time. The druid can do nearly everything the ranger
> can and far more.
f druids. ranger any time.
> Enchanter? Gee, I wonder....
chanter bot is just needed at the adventure camp. ranger anytime!
> Magician? Better dps, offtank ability. Take the mage.
Dunno about better offtank. my 65 mage pets go down pretty fast
> Necro? *Much* better dps, snare, ghetto mez, and other stuff. Take the
> necro.
Necro dps is reliant on mobs living long enough for their dots to be cast
and do their damage.. and is also incredible agro, requiring a very strong
agro tank
> Paladin? Better heals, tanking, ghetto rez.. gimme paladin
If i was looking for a ranger it would be to fill a dps role. For that
reason alone, suggesting a paladin instead is laughable.
> Shaman? They hold aggro and tank as well or better than rangers mainly
> because they bring their own slow. Gimme the shaman, unless I already
> have one.
Shaman anyday yes. For a different role.
> Shadowknight? Nearly equal dps, tank ability, snare, pet pulling... SK
> every time.
Not even close dps. Id take a bard before a paladin or SK for dps..
> Warrior? Another tank who's melee dps is only a smidgeon below the
> ranger's. Gimme the warrior.
If im looking for a ranger, i already have a tank.. so no, id take the
ranger with his dps buffs and utilities over a warrior
> Wizard? Better burst dps and again a snare along with travelling
> niceties. Gimme the wizard.
I often prefer melee dps over casters, because the group is a bit more meaty
and resillient... but hey, what class can compare to a wizard for dps?
> opposition, like normal LDoNs. When for some bizarre reason you can't
> find a druid, necro, shadowknight, bard, or wizard to snare. When you
> want someone to do out of melee range dps and there's no casters
> available.
f druids. id take a ranger over SK and necro. F bard snare.
> >Sure,indoor pullings "sucks",but outdoor,thanks to Harmony,
> >Rangers make fine pullers.
>
> And monks, bards, pet classes all make better pullers. Not to mention
> Harmony is capped and resistable.
Lull is capped too. Harmony is faster than feign pulling, pet pulling,
snare/root fding etc.
> >DPS ?
> >Do you really think,there are many Monks or Berserkers who
> >do more damage than a Ranger with a Darkglint Blade?
>
> If the monk has their weapons from GoD (Demerix etc)? Of course they
> do.
Demerix and Darkglint drop before and after uqua... thats a huge difference
in difficulty.
I have demerix and i don't leave our rangers for dust. Like i said, the top
5 is a pretty mixed bunch of classes
> That's exactly where the problem lies. When your class has no unique
> ability to bring to a group, does nothing someone else can't do better
> and is inferior in its stated role (dps) compared to classes which
> aren't even in that role, then there's a problem.
That applies to many classes, and rangers are certainly not the most
affected by this problem.
-m
-martin
> My last post on this topic, just to illustrate how wrong you guys are
> at the high end. This is c&p from steelwarriors. DPS class MY ASS.
> You're being fooled by rangers using elemental bows before anyone else
> has any.
>
> ...
>
> Pixtt Xxeric Kex(Elapsed time: 422 seconds)
> Mitnick - Rogue - 113493 damage - 269 DPS (tacvi dagger)
> Fureur - Rogue - 111608 damage - 264 DPS (tacvi dagger)
> Celsius - Magician - 95530 damage - 226 DPS (pet dps included)
> Zwickel - Rogue - 85533 damage - 203 DPS (txevu dagger)
> Goliano - Wizard - 84217 damage - 200 DPS
> Anthas - Ranger - 83367 damage - 198 DPS
Ranger: second melee class listed
> Frezzer - Wizard - 82640 damage - 196 DPS
> Nineveh - Wizard - 72369 damage - 171 DPS
> Zorrbald - Monk - 72367 damage - 171 DPS (cyno wraps+shinai)
> Kalafandras - Wizard - 71070 damage - 168 DPS
Who owned the wizards and monk.
WTF is a monk then if the 2nd melee place ranger isnt "DPS"?
-m
Graeme Faelban
> A thousand monkeys banging on keyboards posted the following under the
> name Graeme Faelban <Richar...@netscape.net>:
>
>>A ranger is usually at the top of the DPS list on most raid mobs we
hit.
>
> My last post on this topic, just to illustrate how wrong you guys are
> at the high end. This is c&p from steelwarriors. DPS class MY ASS.
> You're being fooled by rangers using elemental bows before anyone else
> has any.
>
Was not making any claims as to why it was the case, just mentioning it,
as we have someone who regularly parses our raid targets. We have one
ranger who is a serious ATK fiend, and he is always at the top of the
list, generally by a huge margin. Yes, he is using a stonewood compound
bow, but, to be fair, we actually can make these ourselves from drops we
get. Aside from him, the "DPS" classes are generally grouped fairly
close together in damage done. Admittedly, we don't yet have much in the
way of other elemental weapons yet. So, I'd have to say, where rangers
stack up DPS wise has a lot to do with where you are at in the game
progression.
Graeme Faelban
news:2q82d0F...@uni-berlin.de:
> "Ben Sisson" <ilkhanik...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
> news:uurkj0ttqiuulv2mb...@4ax.com...
>> That's exactly where the problem lies. When your class has no unique
>> ability to bring to a group, does nothing someone else can't do
>> better and is inferior in its stated role (dps) compared to classes
>> which aren't even in that role, then there's a problem.
>
> That applies to many classes, and rangers are certainly not the most
> affected by this problem.
>
I do have to say, that of all the people who go lfg in guild, rangers are
not the ones I ever hear complaining about being unable to find groups.
Top of the list is usually Monk, Necro (they just go solo), and, for some
odd reason, Rogue. Personally, I take any of them that are handy, and
only pay attention to specific classes if I know we need some particular
role filled for where we are going.
Lance Berg
Graeme Faelban wrote:
> "-martin" <nospam-vil...@cheerful.com> wrote in
> news:2q82d0F...@uni-berlin.de:
>
>
>>"Ben Sisson" <ilkhanik...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
>>news:uurkj0ttqiuulv2mb...@4ax.com...
>>
>>>That's exactly where the problem lies. When your class has no unique
>>>ability to bring to a group, does nothing someone else can't do
>>>better and is inferior in its stated role (dps) compared to classes
>>>which aren't even in that role, then there's a problem.
>>
>>That applies to many classes, and rangers are certainly not the most
>>affected by this problem.
>>
>
>
> I do have to say, that of all the people who go lfg in guild, rangers are
> not the ones I ever hear complaining about being unable to find groups.
>
> Top of the list is usually Monk, Necro (they just go solo), and, for some
> odd reason, Rogue. Personally, I take any of them that are handy, and
> only pay attention to specific classes if I know we need some particular
> role filled for where we are going.
>
I think your parenthetical "(they just go solo)" is the reason rogues
complain more about not getting groups.
I've made it a firm practice to be certain I could solo any character I
was running, regardless of class. Doesn't have to be great but it does
have to work ok. Then, I can go LFG while being productive, and you
won't hear me bitch much if I dont find a group in ten minutes.. .or in
an hour or even all night.
Also, being able to solo means I can add -any- class as a duo, or trio,
etc, and still be able to be productive, because they are just a boost
to what I'm doing, if the combination isn't sufficient to let us move to
something better.
Rogues strike me as the class least likely to be able to put this idea
into practice; their defensive abilities tend to lack oomph, and they
lose a very significant portion of their DPS when solo until fairly late
in the game. And thats a self fulfilling prophecy, I was just noticing
in guild a 56 rogue who was crowing because his Defense skill had just
hit 140. My berserker's Defense was nearly 100 points higher, because I
spend an inordinate amount of time getting beat on, considering I'm
technically a DPS class.
While a rogue is a great addition to any group which already has a core,
he's not so capable of forming a core himself; he needs to find all
three classic elements while anyone in a core class only needs to find
the missing two. In the meantime, he's also not happily soloing while
waiting.
What to do with his spare time? How about complain!
Grage, 56 Berserker (roughly 25% soloed, because oddly zerkers seem to
get groups easily)
Grager, 13 Ranger (100% soloed)
Llyric, 57 Bard (75% soloed)
Paax, 52 Shaman (about 50% soloed)
Splendid One, 65 Mage (about 40% soloed just cause I had Teapray and
Lenny and Rzantha and a couple other regulars that wanted to group all
the time)
Bergh, 65 Cleric (50% solo... but only cause I'm hard headed that way)
Davian
"Lance Berg" <emp...@dejazzd.com> wrote in message
news:kYqdnQavsam...@dejazzd.com...
>
>
> Graeme Faelban wrote:
>
> > I do have to say, that of all the people who go lfg in guild, rangers
are
> > not the ones I ever hear complaining about being unable to find groups.
> >
> > Top of the list is usually Monk, Necro (they just go solo), and, for
some
> > odd reason, Rogue. Personally, I take any of them that are handy, and
> > only pay attention to specific classes if I know we need some particular
> > role filled for where we are going.
I'd add wizard to this list as well, on the "they just go solo" list.
> I think your parenthetical "(they just go solo)" is the reason rogues
> complain more about not getting groups.
Thats probably part of it. But theres more to it than that. Rogues have
trouble for a few reasons.
The big one is just no utility. Rogues can do DPS, but thats all they can
do. Shroud of Stealth is great, it's fun, it's the best rogue ability, it's
important for raiding, but it adds almost nothing to an experience group.
Any poison that has a useful ability is way too expensive to burn in an exp
group. (There wouldn't be many shamans around either if Turgurs consumed a
peridot when cast.) Snare may not seem like much, but I've seen it
repeatedly get rangers and druids groups, as few enchanters will charm
without a snarer present, and charmed pet dps blows rogue dps out of the
water, even for top end rogues.
There may be 3 DPS slots in each group, but there are 7 DPS classes
competing for those slots, and it's a position that every class can do "well
enough" in. Nobody waits for a rogue to become available, or saves a slot
for them. If none of those 7 classes are looking for group, they just grab
whoever.
And for some, the absolute moron rogues who use/used pickpocket against
their group are still an issue. That ability has caused lots of general
bad feelings about rogues, and leftover reluctance to group with them. Even
past the level where vendor trash loot is meaningless, people by then are
used to just ignoring rogues because of it.
Theres also a fairly long period of time where rogue weapons lag
significantly behind the other classes, due to SOE trying to keep backstab
damage from getting out of hand. From Kunark to early PoP, 15 damage was
the highest damage rating on a rogue weapon (ultra rare one from Cursed
might be 16, I forget?), with delays that did not get sufficiently low.
Elemental rogues start doing real damage again... but it's rough being
stuck below that level, where I have been for a long time. (1) DPS is all a
rogue can do.. but without an elemental poker, most of the other DPS classes
are doing it better.
Monks and wizards are in the same boat really, with reguards to the utility
issue. Monks make great pullers, but lots of other classes do just as
well... and no matter who your puller is, most groups still want a bard or
enchanter for mana regen. And once one of those is present, anyone can pull
"well enough". Wizards get snare, but it's inferior to ranger / druid
snare, enough that most groups dont' look for them if they need a snarer.
Evac is great, but very seldom a must have, as groups tend to be
overconfident rather than preparing for the worst.
(Snip to soloing comments)
> Rogues strike me as the class least likely to be able to put this idea
> into practice; their defensive abilities tend to lack oomph, and they
> lose a very significant portion of their DPS when solo until fairly late
> in the game.
No, they always lose a very significant portion of thier DPS when solo.
Chaotic stab AA is in no way a substitute for backstab. It hits for minimum
backstab damage every time. A guarenteed 130'ish, instead of 550 x 2 or 3
for me.
Rogues who can't face the back of thier opponent do about as much DPS as
warriors, only without the AC / HP / mitigation. Not a very good solo
position to be in. Most rogues I know that do it, can do so because they
are ultra raid equipped, and so totally overpower thier targets that it
doesn't matter.
>
> While a rogue is a great addition to any group which already has a core,
> he's not so capable of forming a core himself; he needs to find all
> three classic elements while anyone in a core class only needs to find
> the missing two. In the meantime, he's also not happily soloing while
> waiting.
>
> What to do with his spare time? How about complain!
>
Eh, you get to sneak around and find out all the nameds that are up, that
you could be killing if you actually had a group. Or at least thats what I
do. : p
--
Dearic - Level 65 Overlord on E'ci
Talynne - Level 65 Deceiver on E'ci