Everquest Message Boards Gone
Gnabicus
Everquest Message board system is Gone. it seems to be being replaced by one
soapbox only large enough for EQ personnel to stand on. Go figure. Don't
believe me? Check it out below.
http://boards.station.sony.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro
"Your're in our world now" roughly translates to, "Shaddup and cough up the
monthly fee butthead."
I really can't believe Verant's move here. The message boards were the only
place you could really go and find answer to Everequest problems. I never
have called thier customer support line. I've always relied on the kindness
of fellow players to assist me in getting problems taken care of.
Please lord build a Verant Killer. Even one of your rolling blackouts sent
to smite them would make me smile. Plese lord please.
Gnabicus
Eric San Juan
news:99u0dm$r4m$1...@newstest.laserlink.net...
> Guess they couldn't stand the heat...so they got rid of the kitchen. The
> Everquest Message board system is Gone.
As I said in another thread regarding the subject: Bravo.
Those boards were little more than a gathering grounds for the whiniest,
incoherently drooling idiots I have ever seen. Rarely was useful information
to be found, and when it was posted, it was quickly drowned in a sea of
infantile complaints from people who want Verant to drive to their home and
massage their feet for them or they'll quit the game. It was a haven for
unceasing Verant bashing for no good reason by people who, despite their
rabid disdain for Verant and all it has touched, still managed to play three
characters past level 50. The boards were a hostile environment were any
word uttered in praise of the game was quickly met with accusations of being
a Verant ass-kisser because, God forbid, you like the game.
Good riddance to the boards as they were. Here's to hoping those idiots
don't make the newsgroup home.
Kay Anders
> <snip>
>
> So, once again, a good thing fucked up by morons. Go figure.
Thing is, the morons aren't the only ones to blame. Verant has a huge
responsibility in this too. They should've nipped things in the bud more than a
year ago when the board first earned the names Whineplay and Gameplay, but
instead, they just waved meekly at the problem. The only *real* steps the took
were a) the Flamewalkers and b) restricting posting to registered EQ players.
Even then, the latter wasn't too effective--I saw countless folks who'd quit or
been banned able to post.
They should've drawn a firm line a long time ago and made people toe it then.
They should have (if UBB would allow it) banned people from posting only, or
given us bozo filters. They should've broken down Gameplay into several smaller,
easier to manage folders and maybe even instituted volunteer hosts.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Thing is, now that they're
using the pound of cure--we're choking on it.
Been where they are, had the same options they did, did it differently--and
didn't alienate an entire community in the process.
EQ was built on two things: Community and continued game-play. If you ask 100
people why they stay in EQ, I'll almost guarantee you most of them will say "the
people" before "the game itself." I've seen people who were otherwise bored with
EQ and burned out stay in the game *for the people.*
The Gameplay boards were an extension of that. I made friends through there; my
first visit to PoG was because of that board.
And it's been thrown away. Baby tossed right out with the bath water. I
couldn't even go to the Rathe folder to save my favorite thread from there, one
talking about all the *good* people they met on EQ.
Good intentions. Bad move. Very bad move.
Bring 'em back, guys, time for Take 2.
Kay Anders
Shortest Barbarian On The Block
Patrick E. Hughes
Not quite the case, under my interpretation.
Problem #0: the game is flawed and buggy. Numerous instances of
Verant staff telling the player base that they were stupid and didn't
know what they were talking about caused these practices to come
about. People feel the need to help fix the game they enjoy playing.
>one-upmanship, melodramatics, and dauntless persistence can one hope
>to create a big enough thread surrounding an issue as to have it
>addressed. Posters with the opportunity and time to engage in these
Problem #1: in order to get anything looked at (Alchemy, Iksar quests,
Rogue uselessness, etc..) people have been taught to scream loud and
long because Verant assumes that the player base is lying. The
players and posters have been trained.
>others with equally valid stated concerns and the same desire to make
>the game better for everyone see their posts fall off within minutes,
>only to be overlooked or missed in the end. That, or they simply don’t
Problem #2: Verant did not dutifully follow up on well thought through
posts, these people were not rewarded for their input. They were
ignored by the moderators, while the annoying posts that Verant
complains about here actually -are- rewarded when a "blue name" pops
in and leaves a comment.
Problem #3: Followup, yet again. Class balance? Begun, and finally
ignored this past month. Quests? Quite a few still broken. Rinse.
Repeat. Choose DAoC, AO, SB, UO.
Dark Tyger
>I really can't believe Verant's move here. The message boards were the only
>place you could really go and find answer to Everequest problems. I never
>have called thier customer support line. I've always relied on the kindness
>of fellow players to assist me in getting problems taken care of.
I can. The message boards had their uses, but they were mostly a swamp
of whiners, trolls, and other generic idiots. They were more trouble
than they were worth.
--
Dark Tyger, the slightly eccentric, railgun-toting kitty kat
Change "tyger" to "half" to email me
=^..^=
The night is my companion...solitude my guide.
Dan Harmon
> Everquest Message board system is Gone. it seems to be being replaced by
one
> soapbox only large enough for EQ personnel to stand on. Go figure. Don't
> believe me? Check it out below.
>
> http://boards.station.sony.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro
*shrug* I read it. You can still post feedback and many of the boards will
allegedly be back up in a few weeks. Are you looking for a place to
publicly whine? That's a.g.e. :)
If you think that something needs to be yelled at the developers, get your
friends to send in feedback as well.
Personally, I'm looking forward to being able to keep up with the board.
Arakai
"bizbee" wrote
>On the other hand, if people didn't act
> like complete immature dickless little children to begin with, this
> wouldn't have happened.
Phwew, I thought you were blaming morons for a moment there, but this
clarifies it: It's Rocket Avenger's fault....
Arakai
"bizbee" wrote
>
> So, once again, a good thing fucked up by morons. Go figure.
>
Hey - I didn't even post there so don't go blaming me.....
*grins*
Davian
bizbee <tub...@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:o375ct4fdbngign1k...@4ax.com...
> Yn erthygl <a755ctkqhq80vk2em...@4ax.com>, sgrifenws
> Patrick E. Hughes <fresh...@earthlink.net>:
>
> >Problem #2: Verant did not dutifully follow up on well thought through
> >posts, these people were not rewarded for their input. They were
> >ignored by the moderators, while the annoying posts that Verant
> >complains about here actually -are- rewarded when a "blue name" pops
> >in and leaves a comment.
> >
> ?? can't quite decipher this one....
>
Translation is as follows.
He is saying that when someone made a good and informative post, Verant either
read it and moved on without commmenting or more likely simply skipped it
since there weren't a ton of replies arguing back and forth over it. When
someone made a nasty flame Verant post about xxx change is RUNEING the game,
Abashi or Brad would stop in to fire a few shots back.
Results, players see that if you want your post responded to, you generate as
much attention for it as possible.
(Note, just explaining, not arguing the point. I've never spent much time
reading Whineplay.)
webdave
"Eric San Juan" <shoeg...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:IWvw6.441913$w35.69...@news1.rdc1.nj.home.com...
Daniel
posted a direct link from the alt.games.everquest news group to a specific
part. Then I only read some of it. I have always used the news group for
my information, however I do question why they couldn't have just limited
the posts (within reason)? Couldn't they put a limit on how many replies
there were? That or possibly make a way where you had to register, based on
your EverQuest account. Sure they could have a different set for non
players to post, but have it more limited. Maybe this wouldn't have helped,
or maybe it wouldn't have been a good idea. But limiting to say 50 replies
per topic would be a possible idea.
Gnabicus <Gnab...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:99u0dm$r4m$1...@newstest.laserlink.net...
Dennis Francis Heffernan
|Personally, I'm looking forward to being able to keep up with the board.
Keep up with WHAT? The sanitized pablum they feel like dishing out?
Dennis F. Heffernan EQ: Venture Fletcher(E'ci) dfra...@email.com
Montclair State U #include <disclaim.h> ICQ:9154048 CompSci/Philosophy
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days
when Victoria reigned!" -- T.S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat
dstep
wrote:
>So, once again, a good thing fucked up by morons. Go figure.
Nah, You should never blame "users" for doing what you allow them to
do. Verant screwed this up themselves. Did you ever happen to look at
the coalition of trades folks or the Q and A board? They were very
well behaved with maybe 2 and 3 post threads. The Q and A one was
especially succinct and in control.
Why were those few forums like that while general messages was a mess?
It was like that because general messages was just that, too dang
general. Its funny but all Verant had to do was look in the rest of
their forums (something they seemed to hardly do.. the tradeskill
guide posted once in a blue moon although the noise ratio there was so
low he could have held very nice "conversations") to see what to do.
What they SHOULD have done instead of this, was simple channeling.
They should have removed general message and put SEVERAL new groups
instead which were headings having to do with what most of the posts
in general message were about:
1) Development Issues
2) Humor and fun (or attempts at such)
3) Vents/ranting and raving (a bit more heavily censored, but
channeling them here makes that easier to do)
And so on. Its funny, people would post something to the Q and A forum
and esther the tester would respond right away with "this really goes
in the dev forum where Absor can answer it as it is not a Q and A
issue." The "dev form" she was referring to was of course General
messages where stuff was basically lost in a swamp of rants and raves,
a few posts about game design or development, quests and of course
whether or not Grollerdabard was retiring and spelling his name
backwards and other such silly attempts at humor which were highly
spammy and should have been coralled somewhere else.
One flunky guy could have easily moved around posts which did not fit
in an area (like lame attempts at humor in the dev area) to the
appropriate group.
>Yn erthygl <99u0dm$r4m$1...@newstest.laserlink.net>, sgrifenws "Gnabicus"
><Gnab...@hotmail.com>:
>
>>Guess they couldn't stand the heat...so they got rid of the kitchen. The
>>Everquest Message board system is Gone. it seems to be being replaced by one
>>soapbox only large enough for EQ personnel to stand on. Go figure. Don't
>>believe me? Check it out below.
>>
>>http://boards.station.sony.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro
>>
>>"Your're in our world now" roughly translates to, "Shaddup and cough up the
>>monthly fee butthead."
>>
>Guess you missed this part. Users, as always, did it themselves:
>
>"Fast-forward to today: Unfortunately, the EverQuest message boards
>are often a hotbed of exaggerated negativity where only through
>one-upmanship, melodramatics, and dauntless persistence can one hope
>to create a big enough thread surrounding an issue as to have it
>addressed. Posters with the opportunity and time to engage in these
>tactics at least get to see an Official tell them “Yes” or “No”, while
>others with equally valid stated concerns and the same desire to make
>the game better for everyone see their posts fall off within minutes,
>only to be overlooked or missed in the end. That, or they simply don’t
>post at all, avoiding the boards and the negativity found therein
>(we’ve received a lot of player feedback via email and at Fan Faires
>attesting to this phenomenon)."
>
>So, once again, a good thing fucked up by morons. Go figure.
That is like saying that its the lil f'd up morons in kindergarten's
fault that their teacher did not teach them how to stand in line.
email: ydst...@yhoyme.com removing all "y"s
Curve
alt.games.everquest and announced:
>Guess they couldn't stand the heat...so they got rid of the kitchen. The
>Everquest Message board system is Gone. it seems to be being replaced by
>one soapbox only large enough for EQ personnel to stand on. Go figure.
>Don't believe me? Check it out below.
>
As one who posted to that Board with a fair regularity, I just have to say
what a steaming pile of shyte this posting is.
The problem is that you had a minority on that board who continued to post
the most purile crap over and over again (GrollerDaBard et al springs to
mind here). Meanwhile, you had a core group of people who picked apart
*everything* and I really do mean everything. You could sit through a
thread ripping apart the game, and Verant, for a patch change *before* the
bloody servers had even come back online to test a patch out!
If you used a 'useless shit' filter on that forum, you were actually left
with some very well conceived postings. Unfortunately, as Absor said in his
explanation, those postings were shooting off the Board in a few minutes
under a tide of infantile whining and pointless, off-topic, drivel.
I would read the Trade Skills forum with great regularity, it was a very
polite forum and many people posted comments/wishes in there for Yak. Now,
because of the BS on the General Forum, that is gone too and we've lost one
more line of discussion (rather than comment), with those who code.
Verant warned it was coming; they pleaded with people to calm down; they got
heavy handed with deletion, only to have the same imbeciles repost the crud
which got nuked. No company was going to put up with that on their official
Boards for too long. The General Board was like a virtual equivalent of
Salem with Verant staff being the widows who got screams of 'Burn the
witch!' everytime a goat coughed.
So, i'd just like to "thanks a lot" to the spoilt, rude, selfish and
ignorant brats who finally managed to shut down what should have been a good
resource for EQ gamers.
curve
Dave Cheeseman
"Curve" <cu...@dal.net> wrote in message
news:tc6argb...@corp.supernews.co.uk...
> As one who posted to that Board with a fair regularity, I just have to say
> what a steaming pile of shyte this posting is.
[excellent summary of board usage snipped]
> So, i'd just like to "thanks a lot" to the spoilt, rude, selfish and
> ignorant brats who finally managed to shut down what should have been a
good
> resource for EQ gamers.
:concurs wholeheartedly! Well put, sir!
MadBomma®
> Yn erthygl <99u0dm$r4m$1...@newstest.laserlink.net>, sgrifenws "Gnabicus"
> <Gnab...@hotmail.com>:
>
> >Everquest Message board system is Gone. it seems to be being replaced by
one
> >soapbox only large enough for EQ personnel to stand on. Go figure. Don't
> >believe me? Check it out below.
> >
> >http://boards.station.sony.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro
> >
> >"Your're in our world now" roughly translates to, "Shaddup and cough up
the
> >monthly fee butthead."
> >
>
> "Fast-forward to today: Unfortunately, the EverQuest message boards
> are often a hotbed of exaggerated negativity where only through
> one-upmanship, melodramatics, and dauntless persistence can one hope
> to create a big enough thread surrounding an issue as to have it
> addressed. Posters with the opportunity and time to engage in these
> tactics at least get to see an Official tell them "Yes" or "No", while
> others with equally valid stated concerns and the same desire to make
> the game better for everyone see their posts fall off within minutes,
> only to be overlooked or missed in the end. That, or they simply don't
> post at all, avoiding the boards and the negativity found therein
> (we've received a lot of player feedback via email and at Fan Faires
> attesting to this phenomenon)."
>
> So, once again, a good thing fucked up by morons. Go figure.
Damn, looks like the same thing that happens right here in
alt.games.everquest every day. And we don't even have an official.
Busker
> are often a hotbed of exaggerated negativity where only through
Don't forget the "W00T! First post!" morons.
Kay Anders
> <snip>
> Indeed, a moderated board is a <moderated board>, and what's the point
> of running one if you're going to allow a bunch of crap to just
> overflow in it all the time. On the other hand, if people didn't act
> like complete immature dickless little children to begin with, this
> wouldn't have happened.
The people who act like immature dickless little children are everywhere. You'll
find them on everything from EQ to Britney Spears MB's to personal finance ones. The
internet can bring out the worst in people as well as the best.
Verant didn't anticipate that; then when it manifested, it took the less-used
"LALALALA CAN'T HEAR YOU FINGERS IN MY EARS LA LAL LA!" school of approach to it,
mingled with the, "whisper-'please-stop-doing-that'-in-a-crowded-auditorum" school.
Both have a lovely and unique flavor; neither is effective.
Nice to see that they're finally giving some REAL consequences to the dickweeds for
their actions. NOT nice to see the other 95% of us are screwed, also.
Kay Anders
Messeth With Fans Not, For You Are Tasty When Crispy
Kay Anders
> Yn erthygl <a755ctkqhq80vk2em...@4ax.com>, sgrifenws
> Patrick E. Hughes <fresh...@earthlink.net>:
>
> >Problem #1: in order to get anything looked at (Alchemy, Iksar quests,
> >Rogue uselessness, etc..) people have been taught to scream loud and
> >long because Verant assumes that the player base is lying. The
> >players and posters have been trained.
> >
> ...and this is Verant's fault. OK. It's a hell of a reach to simply
> say "Verant assumes the player base is lying..." what the fuck could
> you possibly base that on, posts from the very idiots responsible for
> the board being done away with? The plain fact is, based on other
> online games, a tremendous number of people <do> lie to get what they
> want.... or we wouldn't see so many people bragging about it when they
> get away with it.
One person coming in and saying, "Alchemy isn't working," could be a lie.
50% of the Shaman population saying it is an indication something is wrong.
One person coming in and saying, "Taunt isn't working," could be someone who
just has bad luck. Every 50+ Warrior in Gameplay saying it indicates that
something needs to be looked at.
Even when in bulk, Verant assumes a) people are lying, b) that things are
better than we think they are, or c) that it's fixed and we just haven't
figured out how it's fixed yet. Trust me, 50+ doesn't work, Rangers ARE
getting pounded (not as bad as they were), and Alchemy DIDN'T work for ages.
The Vision can be a touch blinding.
> >Problem #2: Verant did not dutifully follow up on well thought through
> >posts, these people were not rewarded for their input. They were
> >ignored by the moderators, while the annoying posts that Verant
> >complains about here actually -are- rewarded when a "blue name" pops
> >in and leaves a comment.
> >
> ?? can't quite decipher this one....
The Gameplay boards were busy as hell. Part of that was because people
weren't smart (or kind) enough to post in an existing thread for their
topic, and instead made a new one. The moderators and Verant officials had
their names appear in blue when they posted, thus the "blue name" thing, and
to get a "blue name" to post in your thread was a great thing; it meant
you'd been recognized.
At first, anyway. Towards the end it became a status symbol and a game.
Granted, it's hard for Verant to put a stop to that one, so of all the
things that rest on the players in this situation, that one is tops.
> >Problem #3: Followup, yet again. Class balance? Begun, and finally
> >ignored this past month. Quests? Quite a few still broken. Rinse.
> >Repeat. Choose DAoC, AO, SB, UO.
>
> 2...this one either....
I think he's saying, "Choose another game, 'cause Verant isn't listening."
> So what's your point? The game has some problems, so it's OK to flood
> the board with moronic, self-important, thrashing, name-calling posts?
> Yeah, that sounds logical. Yes, the moderators should have done
> something sooner.. however, then the next thing you see is 500 posts
> from Da Rocket Avenger screaming about Verant Nazis and censorship...
> then that needs to be deleted too. No, may as well face it, give
> assholes an inch and they demand a mile, period. The local highschool
> student body may operate with a bunch of blathering namecalling,
> finger pointing idiots, but a message board intended to be
> informational just isn't going to cut it when people have that
> attitude.
Flooding the board, etc., isn't right. Man, this NG was kinder than that
board was, for the most part. But Verant let it happen. It's their
neighborhood, and it was their responsibility to make sure guidelines were
laid down up front and adhered to. If they weren't, they can't blame the
players entirely. Especially not the 95% of us that behaved ourselves in
there.
And they certainly could've done something better than to permanently remove
their boards. Honestly, I don't think they realize just how bad that makes
them look, either.
Kay Again
Kay Anders
AAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOO! Make it
stop, make it STOOOOP!
BTW, side note: That "first post" crap started on Everlore, IIRC. And
Everlore took steps to stop it, which have worked. Kinda ironic--now a
lot of the folks who gave Verant revenue by seeing their banner ads all
over are going to be giving that traffic to unsanctioned spoiler sites
now. Humm....
Kay Anders
Nowhere Near First Post
Dark Tyger
*Whimper* Everyone who does that should be drug out into the street
and shot
Dan Harmon
"Dennis Francis Heffernan" <dfra...@email.com> wrote in message
news:b5o5ctcqjkjdalc5s...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 03:31:21 GMT, "Dan Harmon" <deha...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:
>
> |Personally, I'm looking forward to being able to keep up with the board.
>
> Keep up with WHAT? The sanitized pablum they feel like dishing out?
Wow, how'd you come to that conclusion so quickly?
Dark Tyger
>BTW, side note: That "first post" crap started on Everlore, IIRC. And
>Everlore took steps to stop it, which have worked.
Yeah, now instead of making posts that just say "FIRST POST!", they
make posts that say "Wow, cool pic. FIRST POST/PAGE!"
Ken Andrews
news:3AC2908A...@catlore.com...
> Kay Anders
> Shortest Barbarian On The Block
Long time no see. You get lost somewhere?
MadBomma®
"Dark Tyger" <dark...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:mrr6ctc9nrb4abp86...@4ax.com...
>
> *Whimper* Everyone who does that should be drug out into the street
> and shot
If we are going to drag people out into the street and shoot them, I suggest
we start with you. Just to get the ball rolling ya know.. sort of like a
practice run.
Dennis Francis Heffernan
There is no other possible conclusion.
Verant is now censoring the forum in which people posted their dissent
concerning Verant's online community. It is thus in their own interests to
not permit expressions of dissent they are not prepared to deal with, and no
matter how good their intentions may be, they will sooner or later act in
their own interests.
Look at what's been let through so far. "Can PC-made armor be colored?"
Is that the most biting issue this game has?
John Gordon
> >Problem #1: in order to get anything looked at (Alchemy, Iksar quests,
> >Rogue uselessness, etc..) people have been taught to scream loud and
> >long because Verant assumes that the player base is lying. The
> >players and posters have been trained.
> >
> ...and this is Verant's fault. OK. It's a hell of a reach to simply
> say "Verant assumes the player base is lying..." what the fuck could
> you possibly base that on, posts from the very idiots responsible for
> the board being done away with?
perhaps he reached that conclusion based on exchanges like this:
a_bboard_poster: alchemy is broken.
verant_rep: no it's not. we've tested it, and it's working fine.
... eight months later ...
patch message: ok, we've fixed alchemy.
---
John Gordon "No Silicon Heaven? Preposterous! Where would
gor...@jtan.com all the calculators go?" -- Kryten, Red Dwarf
Dan Harmon
> On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 17:28:33 GMT, "Dan Harmon" <deha...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:
>
> |
> |"Dennis Francis Heffernan" <dfra...@email.com> wrote in message
> |news:b5o5ctcqjkjdalc5s...@4ax.com...
> |> On Thu, 29 Mar 2001 03:31:21 GMT, "Dan Harmon" <deha...@bigfoot.com>
> |wrote:
> |>
> |> |Personally, I'm looking forward to being able to keep up with the
board.
> |>
> |> Keep up with WHAT? The sanitized pablum they feel like dishing out?
> |
> |Wow, how'd you come to that conclusion so quickly?
>
> There is no other possible conclusion.
>
> Verant is now censoring the forum in which people posted their dissent
> concerning Verant's online community.
And that's bad? There's nothing morally or ethically wrong with saying
"fuck you, I'm not going to let you flame me."
> Look at what's been let through so far. "Can PC-made armor be colored?"
> Is that the most biting issue this game has?
*shrug* I guess if you can do it as you did just now, Verant should be able
to, too...right? So what's your bitch? "Waaaaahh, Verant is CENSORING me,
even though it's just fine and dandy if I do it!"
Look through the topics again and try to be a little less censoring when you
toss out a topic. Here's help:
Odd that you censored out:
Topic: Queen in Chardok - Ancient Blade
Topic: Adamite Bo-Stick
Topic: Necro Epic, Black Silk Cape Overly Rare?
Topic: Multiple Tells
Sam Posten
<dark...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>"Gnabicus" <Gnab...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I really can't believe Verant's move here. The message boards were the only
>>place you could really go and find answer to Everequest problems. I never
>>have called thier customer support line. I've always relied on the kindness
>>of fellow players to assist me in getting problems taken care of.
>
>I can. The message boards had their uses, but they were mostly a swamp
>of whiners, trolls, and other generic idiots. They were more trouble
>than they were worth.
And they'll all be gravitating here shortly....
Sam
Sam Posten
>Nowhere Near First Post
Welcome back Kay, When the boards are back you dont have to leave
AGE again! =)
Hehe, well, at least some of the old regulars are back, I give it
T-minus 6 hourse before we have Ali/Eduin back calling someone a
witless F-tard again....
Ah well, the good with the bad I suppose!
Sam / Kad
Kay Anders
Got sucked into Gameplay after my computer decided to reject the NG in
every form, with every reader except AOL. New computer, Gameplay gone,
back now. :>
Kay Anders
it'll be like old times again....
Kay Anders
patient enough to bother. I'm sure we'll be seeing a good many, but I think the
spoiler sites and EZ board sites will be picking up the bulk.
Magpie13
Reason' quest.
Drywit
"Dennis Francis Heffernan" <dfra...@email.com> wrote in message
news:3s47ct09bttku7rib...@4ax.com...
Arakai
"Dan Harmon" wrote
> And that's bad? There's nothing morally or ethically wrong with saying
> "fuck you, I'm not going to let you flame me."
I must be working in the wrong company. Last time I voiced this very desire
after a call from a difficult customer my supervisor quipped "No, fuck YOU,
the door is that way if you want to use it". It's kind of hard to argue with
that logic.
It's much easier for online gaming publishers though, for every person that
stands up and says: "hey, quit screwing me" there are ten other mindless
fucks that say: "hey - screw him more, ban him! *sluuuuurp*".
You may enjoy paying to be treated with contempt, thats your choice. Just
keep in persepctive that others may put a higher value on their self respect
and dignity.
Arakai
"Curve"
> So, i'd just like to "thanks a lot" to the spoilt, rude, selfish and
> ignorant brats who finally managed to shut down what should have been a
good
> resource for EQ gamers.
The "people" who shut down the board go by the name of Verant. All those
"spoilt, rude, selfish and ignorant brats" were their customers.
If you run a toystore, what validity is there in throwing a hissy fit over
your customers being immature? For chrissake, this is "online gaming", the
target audience is "big kids" and "big kids at heart". The only people I
can see who need to grow up are Verant, because if their customers did they
would all reaslise what a waste of time online gaming is.
Arakai
"Dave Cheeseman" wrote
>
> > So, i'd just like to "thanks a lot" to the spoilt, rude, selfish and
> > ignorant brats who finally managed to shut down what should have been a
> good
>
> :concurs wholeheartedly! Well put, sir!
>
Verant shut the board down. Period. It is not "our" fault or even "their"
fault. Just Verants.
I got my freedom from collective discipline back when I left the military.
Dennis Francis Heffernan
|And that's bad? There's nothing morally or ethically wrong with saying
|"fuck you, I'm not going to let you flame me."
There's something wrong with it: it demonstrates a lack of character.
If someone has something to say about me, then can. Bring it on. If it's
a debatable point I'll debate -- and likely win. If it's not I'll just laugh
it off and get back to what I was doing.
They're just words. They don't have any power you don't give them.
|Look through the topics again and try to be a little less censoring when you
|toss out a topic. Here's help:
It was an example, not a summary.
|Odd that you censored out:
|
|Topic: Queen in Chardok - Ancient Blade
|Topic: Adamite Bo-Stick
|Topic: Necro Epic, Black Silk Cape Overly Rare?
|Topic: Multiple Tells
The only one of these present when I looked was the Necro epic one, which
is pretty much ignorable because we all know what the answer to that one is
going to be without even looking. There are already ten times more epic
weapons in the game than Verant ever intended.
Shortly after the first set of "topics" was posted I ripped out my links
to their boards. They are no longer a useful source of information, only a
propaganda machine.
Lewis W Beard
> |Wow, how'd you come to that conclusion so quickly?
>
> There is no other possible conclusion.
I agree with you Dennis. There is no other logical conclusion that now the
forums are merely vehicles for them to post happy stuff.
First of all, there is already a mechanism for reporting bugs, and in the
words of EstherTheTester, their group reads the /bug reports from every
server every day. That means the QA forum comment form is a) redundant and
b) not automatically posted, so they only respond with user fragments if
they want to.
Second, the only other forum is the Dev Team one, or whatnot. You can send
them a comment, but whether or not they ever respond is up to them. But, if
they decide the first 1000 form comments complaining about their actions are
trash, it goes in /dev/null (destroyed). Soon people will stop making that
comment, and then it will come down to stuff they edit and post part of, if
it makes them happy.
However, 3 significant things are lost:
1) spam, crap, and anger. So what? If you dont like it dont read it. Getting
rid of this is not really helpful. The general forum wasnt for bugs or
significant issues, there were already forums for verant-only posts, or
other problems. So, ok, they got rid of some noise, so what? It was already
trivial enough to ignore the junk.
So, since its easy to ignore the noise for the real content, the only reason
it makes any sense for them to have shut anything off is to stop the posts
making them unhaoppy, such as the masses of backed-up intelligent posts
showing all kinds of problems.
So, losing noise was good, but not really needed. All they had to do is have
one admin move the junk to a "junk" forum.
2) We lost information. The trade forum was lost. The class forums were
lost. The server forums were lost. Most of them will not be comming back,
according to Absor's post. When you need a quick answer, dont come to
Verant/Sony forums anymore. That wasnt worth losing.
3) We lost the ability to communicate with each other. Sure, we can all go
to 3rd party spoiler sites and jabber, but they have effectively "banned the
media" or the equivalent. As another poster said, when half the shaman
population says there is a problem, look at it. Here we lost the ability to
get organized and get other players to look at intelligent posts and to get
motivated. I think this was intentional; the spam posts upset me about 1% as
much as 2 stupid level 60 spells in response to 2 years of the class being
either unbalanced or (now) broken. Losing community communication is the
big, big loss for us (and for Verant if only they knew it).
After all, if they think something is fine, and dont want to change it, but
1000 other people get each other well informed and suddenly you have masses
of people realizing something significant is wrong, thats a great power to
have. But Verant has a history of ignoring these as long as possible. I
believe int caster issues were coming to such a head, they shut down the
forum to stop others from realizing it too.
So, its their right to shut it all down, but its bad policy.
Anyway, is a forum that nobody can post to a "forum"? Without 2 way and OPEN
communication, it is NOT a "forum", but a propaganda vehicle. Besides, if
they have anything important to say in a one way fashion, put it in a daily
message! Otherwise, if they are talking to themselves, it aint a "forum"
anymore.
There is little other conclusion to come to other than "they are sick of
fighting the tide of realization that the game is currently messed up on a
number of fronts". They think its all fine, and they dont want us convincing
each other to make them change it. Public awareness and community is cut
right out.
But they claim it is negativity making them turtle up.
But is it really "negativity" or legit complaints on the part of the users?
Did the people that were made unhappy by the forums realize they shouldnt go
to either General or Class Balance forums if they didnt want to examine
problems? If they just wanted to post a bug, type /bug. If they wanted to
talk about how their characters on the "in character" forum about how they
love mead and love killing orcs, then dont go to the forums where people
openly discuss problems. Duh.
And couldnt Verant deal with spam without shutting down all information? How
can this NOT be motivated by anything but them being the only ones to put
out information?
Also, Absor said that people at fan faires said they were unhappy playing
the game when reading the boards, but when they didnt read them, the gamers
had fun playing, so they pulled the forum. Yeah, whatever. But considering
that the spam and annoying messages were easy to ignore or be moved by an
admin, maybe Verant has just decided on their new policy.
"Ignorance is bliss."
Lewis
Robert Waldo
wrote:
>Guess they couldn't stand the heat...so they got rid of the kitchen. The
>Everquest Message board system is Gone. it seems to be being replaced by one
>soapbox only large enough for EQ personnel to stand on. Go figure. Don't
>believe me? Check it out below.
>
>http://boards.station.sony.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro
>
>"Your're in our world now" roughly translates to, "Shaddup and cough up the
>monthly fee butthead."
>
>I really can't believe Verant's move here. The message boards were the only
>place you could really go and find answer to Everequest problems. I never
>have called thier customer support line. I've always relied on the kindness
>of fellow players to assist me in getting problems taken care of.
>
>Please lord build a Verant Killer. Even one of your rolling blackouts sent
>to smite them would make me smile. Plese lord please.
>
>Gnabicus
>
By closing the boards, (censoring if you will), Verant effectively
widened the gap between the player and the company. I believe that
this was done purposely with the intent to direct future changes in a
way that is more favorable to Verant. Recent changes (particularly
the taunt effectiveness reduction combined with the agro increase due
to healing) brought immediate and prolonged bitterness (justified I
believe). Even though the player response was accurate, the postings
were not responded to in a prompt manner. Only after long and tedious
repetition was any move made to partially rectify the situation. The
upshot was that Verant looked inept in pushing such a wide reaching
change through without more thorough testing and the posters were
there to tell them all about it.
It is true that Verant has no legal obligation to provide a forum for
their own debasement, but in many cases their actionss warrented
chastisement. By only providing feedback on the issues they choose to
recognize, the player base will not have a place to effectively lobby
for their interests (as, I believe Verant wishes it to be). By
controling the official "Message Boards" totally, they exert a greater
degree of control over their product than they have in the past.
The product is Verants, we the player only get to use it once in a
while and we should be happy that they let us play at all.
I for one am very discouraged.
b*(
Emma
alt.games.everquest and announced:
>The "people" who shut down the board go by the name of Verant. All those
>"spoilt, rude, selfish and ignorant brats" were their customers.
..and customers are not always right.
In fact, customers can often be a load of ignorant assholes who wouldn't
know how to forward a complaint in a constructive way if they were forced to
with a gun at their heads.
Granted, they could have been *far* more draconian with the deletions
(that's the way I would have gone personally), tossed out a few of the
bigger idiots and really clamped down without changing to the full moderated
system they have now. However, I suppose they feel they were forced into
the current action.
curve
Gnabicus
developing the StarWars Game, is alot of Flame throwing customers. If I were
in charge of licensing StarWars, for George Lucas, and I ran across Verants
Mssg Board system I'd be having second thoughts. What do you want to bet
that they pull the plug on it too once they think about it.
In an observation of an odd Verant dichotomy, I noticed that
http://wwwstation.sony.sony.com/starwars/starwars_boards.html is still up
and running. The General forum is still there. I gues once they've heard
enough from everyone they'll shut it down too.
*Donning a disgruntled look and seething with undirectionable anger,
Gnabicus shouts*
LORD I"M STILL WAITING FOR THAT EQ SMITE.
Dan Harmon
"Arakai" <rubaf.s...@uq.net.au> wrote in message
news:9a0nun$es3$1...@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au...
> You may enjoy paying to be treated with contempt, thats your choice. Just
> keep in persepctive that others may put a higher value on their self
respect
> and dignity.
And you may enjoy being paid to be treated with contempt, that's your
choice. Just keep in perspective that others may put a higher value on
THEIR self respect and dignity.
Of course, Verant isn't being paid to be treated with contempt...they're
being paid to put out a game.
Jeff Hoppe
LOL Biz, this quote fits sooo many things going on with EQ.
Jeff
Cadfael-EM
PS. Hi Kay! Haven't seen ya since the old UO days. )
Dorian Brytestar (KoTC)
information". It was a pissing contest. Who could post the most, who could
post after a "blue name" started a thread. Who could get the most bites
from a successful "troll" Who could get a VI response by bumping their
thread and screaming all day.
The thing that I got out of the Read this first letter is that the Boards
were put in place primarily for players to talk to each other. Then, they
slowly evolved into a discussion type atmosphere with VI on game "things"
Now, it is an extension of the /bug and /feedback command in game. It is
THEIR source of information, not ours.
I just want TNZ and Tech support boards back.. Gen. Discussion can stay
gone..
--
--
Dorian Brytestar
54th lvl High Elf Cleric of Tunare
Povar
Dorian Brytestar
The "other" Dorian =)
Master Lumberjack
Great Lakes
Guardian23
3rd sphere Gatekeeper,
Initiate Dreamers of Light.
http://www.knightsofthecreed.com
(need flash installed to view correctly)
"Dennis Francis Heffernan" <dfra...@email.com> wrote in message
news:96u7ctku03i7mq5p4...@4ax.com...
Stig Sandbeck Mathisen
> a_bboard_poster: alchemy is broken.
> verant_rep: no it's not. we've tested it, and it's working fine.
>
> ... eight months later ...
>
> patch message: ok, we've fixed alchemy.
Perhaps, after seven and a half month, someone told verant exactly
what didn't work. :-)
--
SSM - Stig Sandbeck Mathisen
Trust the Computer, the Computer is your Friend
=][=Crunchie
Granted I'm a skeptic and I don't think most things are as they seem but lets take a
look at some of the possible reasoning here:
A) Pissheads and Dweebs generally don't have as much to gain if the personages in
adult positions(Verant in this case) won't be paying attention to them
B) Showoffs and Rebels have absolutely nothing to gain if their piers cannot see
them flipping the bird to those same adult personages.
C) I find it highly unlikely that Verant does not monitor every single major form
of information posting available to Everquest players.
D) If in fact they are monitoring the will have seen that the level childishness in
posting areas hosted by others is much lower(not nonexistant but nothing's perfect)
than in their own forums due to the lack of access to them for person's which A and
B apply to.
E) Many people will not post if they see that someone else has already posted on
the same subject. So by removing the visible posts I believe that in fact they get
a much more realistic view of how many people care about a givin subject.(10,000
people posting about Alchemy because 9000 of them think no one else has taken the
time to post about it.)
F) Many people will post about an issue just because someone else did and they want
love the sound of their own voice. So by removing the visible source these twits
feed on I believe that in fact they get a much more realistic view of how many
people truly do give a shit about a certain subject.
G) In addition to D.... if in fact they are monitoring and they can see boards and
newsgroups where the well thought out posts don't continuosly drop off the bottom
they will have realized that there is a much easier way for them to gain access to
those posts even if the smart posters don't post on their site anymore.
Ok so I rambled a bit but I find it highly unlikely that we will see much of a
return of the dweebs and snotheads at least not at the volume we saw on the general
board, while simultaneously verant will continue to quietly collect information
about what we think and make changes based on it's own priorities lightly modified
by what we want.(as they always did.... now its just minus a bunch of the BS.)
Second I think it extremely childish to assume that persons running and employed by
a profitable company have no brain whatsoever or that maybe they want to screw their
paying clientelle as much as possible.
J
hughes
employed by
> a profitable company have no brain whatsoever or that maybe they want to
screw their
> paying clientelle as much as possible.
I take it you never owned a beta video recorder either . Companies are in
the buisness of making a profit and nothing else . I unlike most do not
consider this a bad thing . Greed does work . But on the other hand dont put
on the blinders . Customer service is almost the defining feature on whether
a enterprise will suceeed or fail in the long run . So far sony has provided
abysmal customer service ; getting rid of the previous outlet for pent up
complaints can not help in the least . There was already a feedback function
ingame for real feedback . Getting rid of the talking head and the boards in
no way increases anyones feelings that their voice is heard.
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