The New Paw: A First Impression
Super Wilbur
dagger, but no I guess that would be helping the rogues out too much.
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Adar
First off, forget everything you heard about 'mid-level'; it's a slightly
easier version of Mistmoore, but only slightly, and it will still take
groups of low 40's or higher to actually go very deep into it. The gnolls at
the very beginning (and the ones at the spires) are in the high 20's and hit
for 60-something damage a hit; everything deeper in is bigger, tougher, and
badder. Levelwise, the place is MAYBE low 30's at the entrance and much
bigger further in; I say 'maybe' because it's a lot easier with 70-90 people
inside, which will not be the case (see below).
The dungeon itself is unchanged in terms of layout; the gnolls do look
different (well, some; it seems they forgot to skin a few, so they still
have the old Splitpaw look, but many look different...think human
prisoner-style torn leather tunics.) The storyline seems to be that the old
Splitpaw clan was routed by a new clan calling itself the TornEars; I missed
the GM event, so can't tell you much more. Most of the names are things like
'Torsh Mal gnolls' (I probably got that wrong...) and variations thereof.
The actual difficulty is mixed; this really is a lot like MM. The gnolls hit
hard, but they don't see invis; on the other hand, there are plenty of
casters (including enchanters- yes, you do get charmed here), they all run,
and there are lots and lots of spawn points along the way (more on that
later), so anything that runs brings back 2 or 3 friends. If you don't have
a druid, you're going to be in trouble here from the get-go. On the plus
side, it's very hard to train; after you get past a certain point fairly
early on, the danger is minimal.
So, why did I say no one would come here?
Well, the worst part is that the loot, sadly, doesn't exist. The dungeon IS
itemized, but the items are unspectacular to say the least. As a small
sample, the giant snakes (which are now called ganadulan widemouths, ~level
30, and hit for 69 a blow with strong poison) drop...giant snake fangs and
rattles. There's a 4 22 dagger which procs stun, a 3 20 whip with 3 ac
(bard/rogue/ranger only, which eliminates anyone who might've actually
wanted it), and the new Summon Corpse spell (level 39, by the way); that's
about all 90 people were able to find in 3 hours. About the only interesting
thing in here, lootwise, is the FS visible on a few of the gnolls.
Another problem is the spawns themselves. The spawn time seems to be 15-20
minutes- but there are literally a TON of them. Every room in the place has,
at the minimum, 5-6 mobs; all are aggro (with no faction, so evil races are
SOL too) and each spawn site in the first third of the dungeon has an equal
chance to spawn a blue-to-30 low level threat, a red to 30 tougher gnoll, or
a yellow-and-red enchanter or cleric (have fun.) The original plan for our
group of 30-35's was to go to the old Ghanex Drah room; we got about halfway
there, then got sidetracked as a room with 18 people in it at the time
spawned 8 or 9 mobs at once, four of which eventually wound up running and
bringing back 9 more...and only the arrival of our group saved the other
*12* people. Anyone of the appropriate level who plans to fight their way in
is never going to make it, period; invis is the only way to go.
This dungeon needs, at the minimum, 50-60 people at a time in order to be
viable; any less will mean that the spawns are not being cleared out, which
will make it impossible for anyone to really hunt here (camping one or two
rooms, possibly; hunting, no.) There is no loot worth mentioning; the XP is
great, but Cazic and it's loot is better even with Paw's closer bind point,
and there are enough caster mobs in here to make it not worth it.
Unfortunately, so far, I think the new Paw is going to be about as busy as
the old Paw.
(Note: these are first impressions, based on three hours. If a group found a
31 47 Axe of Death five minutes after I camped, that would change the
situation dramatically...)
Brudo (E'ci)
Loredaeron (E'ci)
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Sam Schlansky
<82sqlr$lns$1...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>:
>After spending a few hours in the new Paw today, my initial
>impressions:
>
>First off, forget everything you heard about 'mid-level'; it's a
>slightly easier version of Mistmoore, but only slightly, and it
>will still take groups of low 40's or higher to actually go very
>deep into it.
Do the mobs aggro through walls? Is it actually *buggy* or just too
difficult?
>The gnolls at the very beginning (and the ones at
>the spires) are in the high 20's and hit for 60-something damage a
>hit; everything deeper in is bigger, tougher, and badder.
>Levelwise, the place is MAYBE low 30's at the entrance and much
>bigger further in; I say 'maybe' because it's a lot easier with 70
>-90 people inside, which will not be the case (see below).
Ack... it was supposed to be balanced for 30-45 or so. So far, no BIG
problems though...
(snip)
>The actual difficulty is mixed; this really is a lot like MM. The
>gnolls hit hard, but they don't see invis;
Cool.
>on the other hand,
>there are plenty of casters (including enchanters- yes, you do get
>charmed here), they all run, and there are lots and lots of spawn
>points along the way (more on that later), so anything that runs
>brings back 2 or 3 friends. If you don't have a druid, you're
>going to be in trouble here from the get-go. On the plus side,
>it's very hard to train; after you get past a certain point fairly
>early on, the danger is minimal.
Not too bad, really.
>So, why did I say no one would come here?
>
>Well, the worst part is that the loot, sadly, doesn't exist. The
>dungeon IS itemized, but the items are unspectacular to say the
>least. As a small sample, the giant snakes (which are now called
>ganadulan widemouths, ~level 30, and hit for 69 a blow with strong
>poison) drop...giant snake fangs and rattles. There's a 4 22
>dagger which procs stun,
4/22? You've GOT to be shitting me! Why not make it 5/19 or 6/23?
Sigh... it could have been such a nice weapon, too...
>a 3 20 whip with 3 ac (bard/rogue/ranger
>only, which eliminates anyone who might've actually wanted it),
Honestly I don't see why anyone would want it. Perhaps if it was 8 or
9 AC, but even then it's such a shitty weapon that I doubt it.
>and the new Summon Corpse spell (level 39, by the way); that's
>about all 90 people were able to find in 3 hours. About the only
>interesting thing in here, lootwise, is the FS visible on a few of
>the gnolls.
Sigh...
>Another problem is the spawns themselves. The spawn time seems to
>be 15-20 minutes- but there are literally a TON of them. Every
>room in the place has, at the minimum, 5-6 mobs; all are aggro
>(with no faction, so evil races are SOL too) and each spawn site
>in the first third of the dungeon has an equal chance to spawn a
>blue-to-30 low level threat, a red to 30 tougher gnoll, or a
>yellow-and-red enchanter or cleric (have fun.) The original plan
>for our group of 30-35's was to go to the old Ghanex Drah room; we
>got about halfway there, then got sidetracked as a room with 18
>people in it at the time spawned 8 or 9 mobs at once, four of
>which eventually wound up running and bringing back 9 more...and
>only the arrival of our group saved the other *12* people. Anyone
>of the appropriate level who plans to fight their way in is never
>going to make it, period; invis is the only way to go.
Another badly designed dungeon with frequent runners that requires
invis. Sigh...
>This dungeon needs, at the minimum, 50-60 people at a time in
>order to be viable; any less will mean that the spawns are not
>being cleared out, which will make it impossible for anyone to
>really hunt here (camping one or two rooms, possibly; hunting,
>no.)
I don't see THAT as much of a problem, really.
>There is no loot worth mentioning; the XP is great, but Cazic
>and it's loot is better even with Paw's closer bind point, and
>there are enough caster mobs in here to make it not worth it.
>Unfortunately, so far, I think the new Paw is going to be about as
>busy as the old Paw.
Now THAT is a problem. There *must* be loot equivalent to the other
35-45 dungeons, or people simply will not go there. Hell, Cazic's
loot now SUCKS... unless you're a rogue, there are three items in the
entire place that you might want: the lizzie cloak, mantle, and the
lizard blood potion... and now Cazic is almost empty during
primetime.
It's a shame that they didn't learn from their mistakes.
>(Note: these are first impressions, based on three hours. If a
>group found a 31 47 Axe of Death five minutes after I camped, that
>would change the situation dramatically...)
It needs several named drops with common and rare. Probably around
ten or twelve named mobs would be perfect.
I expected several kinds of upgraded snakeskin armor, along with a
few miscellaneous items (a shoulder item for monks, boots that grant
wisdom, etc) and some decent weapons. A pity they didn't come through
for us. Another wasted dungeon with item drops way below it's level,
hooray.
Back to lower guk.
Sam
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Adar
Sam Schlansky <s...@deletethis.operation3d.com> wrote in message
news:8E9918CF9vi...@207.126.101.100...
> ad...@spamaway.mindspring.com (Adar) wrote in
> <82sqlr$lns$1...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>:
>
> >After spending a few hours in the new Paw today, my initial
> >impressions:
> >
> >First off, forget everything you heard about 'mid-level'; it's a
> >slightly easier version of Mistmoore, but only slightly, and it
> >will still take groups of low 40's or higher to actually go very
> >deep into it.
>
> Do the mobs aggro through walls? Is it actually *buggy* or just too
> difficult?
To give them credit, it's not only not buggy, but the level layout (which
hasn't changed) is nice and wide; large races won't be getting stuck here.
It's just too difficult.
>
> >The gnolls at the very beginning (and the ones at
> >the spires) are in the high 20's and hit for 60-something damage a
> >hit; everything deeper in is bigger, tougher, and badder.
> >Levelwise, the place is MAYBE low 30's at the entrance and much
> >bigger further in; I say 'maybe' because it's a lot easier with 70
> >-90 people inside, which will not be the case (see below).
>
> Ack... it was supposed to be balanced for 30-45 or so. So far, no BIG
> problems though...
>
Oh, it's balanced for 30-45. I thought it should have been 20-40 (they did
say mid-level...), but 30 is the minimum and somewhere in the low 40's is
the top (well, top as in reasonable XP-wise; there's some blue-to-50 things
in there too, more at the bottom.) Problem is, that's too narrow of a level
range; this place is going to have problems packing it in even with real
loot.
I should note that someone at the druid board said the gnolls saw through
invis. This is definitely wrong for the first third, because after my group
disbanded, I wandered through most of it without a problem, but they might
see through it lower down- or there might be a gnoll or eight casting detect
invis down there, too.
> >This dungeon needs, at the minimum, 50-60 people at a time in
> >order to be viable; any less will mean that the spawns are not
> >being cleared out, which will make it impossible for anyone to
> >really hunt here (camping one or two rooms, possibly; hunting,
> >no.)
>
> I don't see THAT as much of a problem, really.
>
> >There is no loot worth mentioning; the XP is great, but Cazic
> >and it's loot is better even with Paw's closer bind point, and
> >there are enough caster mobs in here to make it not worth it.
> >Unfortunately, so far, I think the new Paw is going to be about as
> >busy as the old Paw.
>
> Now THAT is a problem. There *must* be loot equivalent to the other
> 35-45 dungeons, or people simply will not go there. Hell, Cazic's
> loot now SUCKS... unless you're a rogue, there are three items in the
> entire place that you might want: the lizzie cloak, mantle, and the
> lizard blood potion... and now Cazic is almost empty during
> primetime.
>
Cazic still has 40-50 people in it most of the time; at least the maze and
the 4C's are always camped by *someone*.
With Paw, there might be two groups at the entrance, and two at the end for
Summon Corpse and anything else down there, but no one's going to be in
between after a week.
> It's a shame that they didn't learn from their mistakes.
>
> >(Note: these are first impressions, based on three hours. If a
> >group found a 31 47 Axe of Death five minutes after I camped, that
> >would change the situation dramatically...)
>
> It needs several named drops with common and rare. Probably around
> ten or twelve named mobs would be perfect.
>
The sad thing is there ARE ten or twelve named mobs there. There's an
executioner of some sort (the room we wound up in was the big room with the
executioner on the right side of it- you should figure out where we were
after you make the trip.) There's a named enchanter, cleric, and necro in
there too (replacing the deep named Paw spawns) and some other stuff from
what I hear...but none of them drop anything. *Nothing*; unless these are
ultra-rare drops with no common, the best anyone got out of any of them was
a whopping 4 plat.
> I expected several kinds of upgraded snakeskin armor, along with a
> few miscellaneous items (a shoulder item for monks, boots that grant
> wisdom, etc) and some decent weapons. A pity they didn't come through
> for us. Another wasted dungeon with item drops way below it's level,
> hooray.
>
They did upgrade snakeskin; the druid board has something about 4 AC, 2 wis,
3 dex gloves. That's not bad- at level 15...
Other than that, nothing there whatsoever.
> Back to lower guk.
>
Yeah, basically.
Brad McQuaid
Paw is a well used dungeon, and if we need to tweak it to make it that way, we
will. But I think it's too early yet to tell.
(we definitely appreciate the feedback -- please keep it coming).
thanks,
-Brad
Adar wrote:
--
---------------------------------------------
Brad McQuaid
Producer, EverQuest www.everquest.com
Vice President, Verant Interactive Inc.
---------------------------------------------
Sean
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Everquest Producer
Super Wilbur wrote in message
<0221c012...@usw-ex0101-003.remarq.com>...
Sean
Or is it more like Unrest in terms of layout?
--
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Everquest Producer
Adar wrote in message <82sqlr$lns$1...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>...
Joe
wrote:
>Guys, please give it a chance and keep exploring. It is our intent to make sure
>Paw is a well used dungeon, and if we need to tweak it to make it that way, we
>will. But I think it's too early yet to tell.
>
>(we definitely appreciate the feedback -- please keep it coming).
>
>thanks,
>
>-Brad
>
>
Thinking for once of another class that I don't play (grin)
something nice for SKs in the one hand weapon variety would be nice
for them. Blood Moon was a good idea for the smaller SKs but an awful
long way down the career path. A good class specific 1Hand Slash for
them would be a good drop to put there. Not necessarily an exact
opposite of Ghoulbane, maybe something less damage but faster but in
the same power range. The smaller SKs could then keep their stun by
using Bash. Just my $0.02.
As for my own class cocerns (Ranger) I will withold comment till
the Dungeon is thoroughly explored. We don't really need a new
weapon, just our old ones working again.
-Joe
ilian
this is what rogues have been asking for!
I can't believe you guys cant see the potential
in this dagger.. That proc is freaking _AWESOME_
for a rogue who sees himself tanking/soloing a little bit.
well, might not be too great, but tons of fun to allow
them that backstab when tanking..
Also, think about a heavy melee group where everyone
is weilding one of these.... the mob could be kept
stunned like 80% of the time.... this is a fun little
weapon. maybe not awesome, like i was stating
earlier ;) but definately not "crap"...... depends on when
it procs also......
-ilian
Matt Frisch
into the ether:
>I have not been in Paw (go figure) at ALL. Is it a maze like Guk and Cazic?
>Or is it more like Unrest in terms of layout?
There are a couple of small portions which are a bit confusing and possibly
maze-like, but overall it is very linear...there is the entrance, and then
you basically go in a straight line to reach the back end of it (where
before was a place to get snakeskin armor from nobles and rune totem staves
from named shamans...no clue what is there now, I'm not anywhere near high
enough to go there).
Billy Shields
: A 4 22 dagger? screw the proc, lets see a decent weapon, maybe 8-9 22
: dagger, but no I guess that would be helping the rogues out too much.
You think an 8 22 dagger is appropriate for a 20-40 dungeon? Egads,
thats better than the SBD (8 26? 27?) that is a rare drop in LGuk.
The Bone Razor (dracolich, PoF) is only 10 22.
Get some perspective.
As for Paw, it does sound like (from the collective posts and those
on my server who I've spoken to) that theres no loot worth mentioning
(none that anyones found yet anyway) which essentially makes the
place useless...
Thelonious Georgia
> > >and it's loot is better even with Paw's closer bind point, and
> > >there are enough caster mobs in here to make it not worth it.
> > >Unfortunately, so far, I think the new Paw is going to be about as
> > >busy as the old Paw.
> >
> > Now THAT is a problem. There *must* be loot equivalent to the other
> > 35-45 dungeons, or people simply will not go there. Hell, Cazic's
> > loot now SUCKS... unless you're a rogue, there are three items in the
> > entire place that you might want: the lizzie cloak, mantle, and the
> > lizard blood potion... and now Cazic is almost empty during
> > primetime.
I disagree. I would love to be able to go to a dungeon and get great xp
and not experience overcrowding (read: lower guk and sol b)
> > I expected several kinds of upgraded snakeskin armor, along with a
> > few miscellaneous items (a shoulder item for monks, boots that grant
> > wisdom, etc) and some decent weapons. A pity they didn't come through
> > for us. Another wasted dungeon with item drops way below it's level,
> > hooray.
> >
>
> They did upgrade snakeskin; the druid board has something about 4 AC, 2
wis,
> 3 dex gloves. That's not bad- at level 15...
>
These gloves are a big improvement over what the glove options druids had
before. Granted, we could always get lupine...erm...yeah, right.
I haven't been to Paw yet, but I am eager to check it out.
Paul Phillips
hours to get a feel for it.
I'm so close t gone,
Paul
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----------------------
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Freeze
>There's a 4 22 dagger which procs stun, a 3 20 whip with 3 ac
<snip>
The whip procs stun, there's a pic on EQLizer. There's a pic of a Gnoll
Hide Tome on there too, -10 STR, +5 WIS, +10 INT, +15 HP, +10 SV POISON,
usuable by pure casters only.
Brett Hawn
>Well, the worst part is that the loot, sadly, doesn't exist. The dungeon IS
>itemized, but the items are unspectacular to say the least. As a small
>sample, the giant snakes (which are now called ganadulan widemouths, ~level
>30, and hit for 69 a blow with strong poison) drop...giant snake fangs and
>(bard/rogue/ranger only, which eliminates anyone who might've actually
>about all 90 people were able to find in 3 hours. About the only interesting
>thing in here, lootwise, is the FS visible on a few of the gnolls.
Actually the dagger procs the level 1 enchanter spell Weaken, the whip procs
stun. We also found some +wis gloves, yes, thats right, +2 wis gloves, the
only non-planar wis gloves in the game to my knowledge. We also found a
sword which was 10/33 (I think? 10/something) that procs Strong Poison, not
a bad 1 hand slash really, not great, but certainly not bad.
Brett Hawn
My first suggestion would be to actually decrease the number of spawn
spots, with the way these things run, its just TOOOO easy to start a train.
In the 2 or so hours we wandered last night I saw shouts of trains at least
18 times. Also, if you're aiming for the 30-45 crowd, add some more blue to
50 stuff, simply stated, I got bored as hell wandering around in paw after
the first 30 minutes, but my 46/47 guys in our group said they were getting
great xp down in the basement area.
Sam Schlansky
<82ston$ijk$1...@nntp3.atl.mindspring.net>:
>Sam Schlansky <s...@deletethis.operation3d.com> wrote in message
>news:8E9918CF9vi...@207.126.101.100...
>> ad...@spamaway.mindspring.com (Adar) wrote in
>> <82sqlr$lns$1...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>:
>>
>> >After spending a few hours in the new Paw today, my initial
>> >impressions:
>> >
>> >First off, forget everything you heard about 'mid-level'; it's
>> >a slightly easier version of Mistmoore, but only slightly, and
>> >it will still take groups of low 40's or higher to actually go
>> >very deep into it.
>>
>> Do the mobs aggro through walls? Is it actually *buggy* or just
>> too difficult?
>
>To give them credit, it's not only not buggy, but the level layout
>(which hasn't changed) is nice and wide; large races won't be
>getting stuck here. It's just too difficult.
Difficulty can be dealt with, both by superior tactics and greater numbers, if
the rewards are worthwhile. I don't see that as a problem.
(snip)
>> Ack... it was supposed to be balanced for 30-45 or so. So far,
>> no BIG problems though...
>>
>Oh, it's balanced for 30-45. I thought it should have been 20-40
>(they did say mid-level...), but 30 is the minimum and somewhere
>in the low 40's is the top (well, top as in reasonable XP-wise;
>there's some blue-to-50 things in there too, more at the bottom.)
>Problem is, that's too narrow of a level range; this place is
>going to have problems packing it in even with real loot.
It was supposed to be balanced for 30-45. If it is, well, good. :)
(snip)
>> >There is no loot worth mentioning; the XP is great, but Cazic
>> >and it's loot is better even with Paw's closer bind point, and
>> >there are enough caster mobs in here to make it not worth it.
>> >Unfortunately, so far, I think the new Paw is going to be about
>> >as busy as the old Paw.
>>
>> Now THAT is a problem. There *must* be loot equivalent to the
>> other 35-45 dungeons, or people simply will not go there. Hell,
>> Cazic's loot now SUCKS... unless you're a rogue, there are three
>> items in the entire place that you might want: the lizzie cloak,
>> mantle, and the lizard blood potion... and now Cazic is almost
>> empty during primetime.
>>
>
>Cazic still has 40-50 people in it most of the time; at least the
>maze and the 4C's are always camped by *someone*.
I dunno about your server, but on Rathe Cazic maxes at 40, and that's during
primetime. Cazic can support much more than 40; it easily supports two groups
pulling from the maze, one group in TR1, one group in TR2, one group doing the
temple base, one group doing the archon, one group doing the avatar, one group
doing the steel golem area, and one group doing gators. That's 54 people before
Cazic really is even close to maxed out, and you can fit another half dozen
soloing from the maze as well.
>With Paw, there might be two groups at the entrance, and two at
>the end for Summon Corpse and anything else down there, but no
>one's going to be in between after a week.
Well, I guess we'll see.
(snip)
>The sad thing is there ARE ten or twelve named mobs there. There's
>an executioner of some sort (the room we wound up in was the big
>room with the executioner on the right side of it- you should
>figure out where we were after you make the trip.) There's a named
>enchanter, cleric, and necro in there too (replacing the deep
>named Paw spawns) and some other stuff from what I hear...but none
>of them drop anything. *Nothing*; unless these are ultra-rare
>drops with no common, the best anyone got out of any of them was
>a whopping 4 plat.
What the hell? They have named mobs with NO drops?
That's got to be a bug or SOMERTHING! Geez.
>> I expected several kinds of upgraded snakeskin armor, along with
>> a few miscellaneous items (a shoulder item for monks, boots that
>> grant wisdom, etc) and some decent weapons. A pity they didn't
>> come through for us. Another wasted dungeon with item drops way
>> below it's level, hooray.
>>
>They did upgrade snakeskin; the druid board has something about 4
>AC, 2 wis, 3 dex gloves. That's not bad- at level 15...
Yeah, I heard about them. The thing is, they're THE only gloves with wisdom,
much like the reed belt is THE only belt with wisdom. I'm talking about non-
dragon/plane items, of course.
From what I heard, the gloves are the rare drop from a level 42 necromancer NPC
in Paw. The common drop is a 6/21 spear with NO stat bonuses, proc'ing...
nothing.
Off a level 42 necromancer NPC deep in the dungeon.
>Other than that, nothing there whatsoever.
>
>> Back to lower guk.
>
>Yeah, basically.
Bummer.
Sam Schlansky
<38526794...@technologist.com>:
>Come on guys, this is a power gamers game, you need to camp paw
>for 30 hours to get a feel for it.
(snip)
And you don't think people have been camping every named for 30 hours
already? Naive...
Sam Schlansky
<38520409...@verant.com>:
>Guys, please give it a chance and keep exploring. It is our
>intent to make sure Paw is a well used dungeon, and if we need to
>tweak it to make it that way, we will. But I think it's too early
>yet to tell.
>
>(we definitely appreciate the feedback -- please keep it coming).
(snip)
Problems seen with paw so far (disclaimer, I haven't been there yet)
1) Loot needs to be worthwhile for the difficulty. No level 40 wants
a 4/22 dagger that procs stun, much less WEAKEN! (which is the real
proc btw, guys)
2) EVERY named mob should have a common and rare drop.
3) Too many spawns, too close together, == trains and unplayability.
4) Too many spawns, too close together, that fear and charm == pain
and death.
5) Pain and death, combined with no worthwhile loot == nobody goes
there.
For examples of reasonably designed and itemized dungeons, look to
gukbottom and solb. There's a reason why they're full all the time,
and it isn't totally because of the level range of the monsters.
Sam Schlansky
<0221c012...@usw-ex0101-003.remarq.com>:
>A 4 22 dagger? screw the proc, lets see a decent weapon, maybe 8-9
>22 dagger, but no I guess that would be helping the rogues out too
>much.
8 or 9 damage with 22 delay is an unbelievably good weapon. Hell,
that's significantly better than the ykesha or EBW and approaches
plane gear. Ridiculous suggestion.
Now a 6/21 club that procs STUN (*not* weaken)... now THAT could be
interesting. The damage/delay ratio is nothing wonderful, but the
proc could be useful.
JubJub McRae
underpopulated, just as Mistmoore is. Heavy amounts of casters, +
runners, + high mob concentration = insane, instant death trains,
probably FREQUENT, instant death trains, and no one finds these fun
but the pricks who hit the runner or the (still bugged) pet at the
entrance area of mistmoore. High risk of instant death because of
someone elses screwups and the experience penalty don't mix well.
On a side not, I wonder if they will ever look into revamping
Mistmoore a bit. It's itemized, and interesting, but there are more
people willing to brave Fear itself than brave the castle.
JubJub McRae
>interesting. The damage/delay ratio is nothing wonderful, but the
>proc could be useful.
>
>Sam
God yes.. I'd like to get that into the hands of my shaman...
Adar
JubJub McRae <mrju...@REMOVETHISPART.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:38547e8b...@news.ne.mediaone.net...
As would I...(apologies for the weaken/stun mixup, BTW; it really was three
hours, so some of these things got blurry by the end. Whip= 3 20 3 AC stun,
dagger= 4 22 weaken.)
From all other sources, we have the gloves, a stone which has effect:
glimpse, another one with effect: lightstone, the 6 21 spear, the 10 33
sword (both in areas where 40+ groups are required), and the gnoll hide tome
(this would be great normally- but it's probably offhand only, and the
glowing stein is better and costs 50-200 plat.) Plus Summon Corpse.
Not good so far. I'm going back in today; anything else anyone finds will be
posted later.
Brudo (E'ci)
Loredaeron (E'ci)
P.S. Anyone else find it highly amusing how badly EQCasters borked up the
quoting on this thread's Brad post? :)
them...@my-deja.com
great new items would be found there. A dungeon that is for lvl 30+
should have some really sweet items!! <sigh> What a let down :(. Those
items listed here are junk. They aren't even good if they dropped in
the OLD PAW!! Come on Brad put a couple neat(=powerful or fun) items in
here. This will take some people out of the overcrowded lguk and solb.
I really hope there are better items than what I have seen in there. As
a matter of fact get rid of those items all together they are JUNK. I
would even want any of those items for free and i'm at the low end of
the dungeon lvl at 33. LAME LAME LAME, I am dissappointed.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
jdwil...@home.com
<ad...@spamaway.mindspring.com> wrote:
a 4/22 dagger *might* interest me if the proc can go off often enough.
I'd prefer it if it were 4/20 or even 3/20 or even 0/19 if it procced
stun often enough. Because keeping a mob stunned is almost as good as
a root that works. If I can stun him with a dagger while casting my dd
spells, I'm a happy camper, being a wiz. The faster the dagger, the
more chances I'd have of the proc going off, and if the proc is
frequent to begin with... stun the mob for 2 secs, say, have the stun
proc every 6 secs, or even 10 sec... I know, I'm dreaming <sigh>
>rattles. There's a 4 22 dagger which procs stun, a 3 20 whip with 3 ac
jdwil...@home.com
wizard could wield, regardless of dmg. Since root sucks, and enstill
vacuums, I'm looking for any edge I can get to stay alive while
blasting mobs to hell.
On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 15:40:00 GMT, s...@deletethis.operation3d.com (Sam
Schlansky) wrote:
>wilburN...@hotmail.com.invalid (Super Wilbur) wrote in
><0221c012...@usw-ex0101-003.remarq.com>:
>
>>A 4 22 dagger? screw the proc, lets see a decent weapon, maybe 8-9
>>22 dagger, but no I guess that would be helping the rogues out too
>>much.
>
>8 or 9 damage with 22 delay is an unbelievably good weapon. Hell,
>that's significantly better than the ykesha or EBW and approaches
>plane gear. Ridiculous suggestion.
>
>Now a 6/21 club that procs STUN (*not* weaken)... now THAT could be
>interesting. The damage/delay ratio is nothing wonderful, but the
>proc could be useful.
>
>Sam
>
andrus
wrote:
>Guys, please give it a chance and keep exploring. It is our intent to make sure
>Paw is a well used dungeon, and if we need to tweak it to make it that way, we
>will. But I think it's too early yet to tell.
>
>(we definitely appreciate the feedback -- please keep it coming).
>
>thanks,
>
>-Brad
>
PAW upgrade is long over due. At any rate we are... well I AM happy
that Paw has been upgraded. Thanks Brad.
We still need more zones how about...hmm... finishing up the rest of
Unrest? When's Paineel coming on line? How about building a zone
where you can go medival and fight demons? Diablo2 release date is
fast approaching you know.
AD
andrus
>Brad,
>
> My first suggestion would be to actually decrease the number of spawn
>spots, with the way these things run, its just TOOOO easy to start a train.
>In the 2 or so hours we wandered last night I saw shouts of trains at least
>18 times. Also, if you're aiming for the 30-45 crowd, add some more blue to
>50 stuff, simply stated, I got bored as hell wandering around in paw after
>the first 30 minutes, but my 46/47 guys in our group said they were getting
>great xp down in the basement area.
>
Are you fucking high? Do you like sitting and waiting for mobs to
spawn with a thumb up your ass? If not then stfu.
Why don't you go bitch that unrest and cazic has too many trains. Get
real lamer and get better at it.
AD
Morgan
>
> P.S. Anyone else find it highly amusing how badly EQCasters borked up the
> quoting on this thread's Brad post? :)
Ha ha ha! Yes, I came across that before I read this thread. I had no
idea who was saying what to whom, so I figure I should just come here
and read the thread. It does make a lot more sense here. :)
--
Morgan
Morgan
Mistmoore is great! I've spent some quality time living in the
vicinity of the lake and more later around the graveyard. The
denizens of Mistmoore have a nice variety of attacks, making most
fights very exciting. There are some good special items and
quite respectable loot in general. The only reason I am not back
there more often is that it is hard to get the whole group to head
to Faydwer. There are no Wizards or Druids who are sufficiently
comfortable with the slow leveling pace of my group to stick with
us and ferry us around. ;)
You're right about the castle though. That is way too scary.
--
Morgan
Xymarra, High Elf Enchanter on E'Ci
Shrike
>
> Come on guys, this is a power gamers game, you need to camp paw for 30
> hours to get a feel for it.
> I'm so close t gone,
Can't wait.
--
Hanrahan Thornhide, Druid in Fennin Ro, Griffin Snack.
Rhialto, Enchanter in Fennin Ro, Young Kodiak Lunch.
"Remember, you reap what you SoW"
Adar
Going back in today, the amount of corpses at the entrance and near the
first room actually grew larger. My group this round was slightly lower
level than yesterday, but the enchanter was still with us (Heya Craven...)
so all was good.
The good feeling lasted right up until the evac 10 minutes later; a couple
of people, who I wont mention here, kept attacking mezzed mobs. (Not that it
would matter, since the mobs were going to overwhelm us anyway, but it was
the principle of the thing.)
Our second trip lasted 30 minutes: all six of us were down at the end of
that one.
The third try was slightly better; with a mostly new group, we managed to
hold the same room we'd been trying to keep for the last two days- for
another two hours, until the second evac missed our ranger (guess charmed
people don't evac: oh well.)
My conclusions, more permanent this time:
Right up until the first bridge, all is good; the gnolls don't drop
anything, and they tend to come in twos and threes, but a well organized
group of upper 20's/low 30's can take and hold the whole area (if they have
room: this trip, the place averaged 40-60.)
After the first bridge, all hell breaks loose.
The first two spawns of note are right at the beginning of the bridge, and
another two right at the end; there's another spawn at the beginning of the
room that follows (we were in here; it's equivalent to the BB bridge room).
This room has 1-2 additional spawns, and there are three doors off it- all
with 3 or 4 more gnolls. This isn't so bad, because they're all the same
level, so a group (or two smaller ones) of lower 30's can still conceivably
hold them all...
...if all of them didn't have an equal chance to spawn a caster.
Past the bridge, the dungeon is a nightmare. EVERY spawn point gives either
a Tesch (fighter type), Rosch (cleric or necro type, equal chance of
either), or Nisch (enchanter.) The gnolls swarm; they heal each other; they
AoE in masses, and worst of all, they charm like maniacs. You can go and
hold any given room; for 15-20 minutes, you'll be completely safe and able
to pull from the surrounding areas, if they happened to spawn less than 2
casters. Then, the gnolls in your own room will spawn- and chances are at
least a few will be mezzing and charming before you can blink. The first
time we were wiped out, there were at least four, possibly six casters from
just two groups of spawn points in our room; the second time, when we were
able to evac, there was a cleric and 2 enchanters there with us in addition
to a fighter. Even as a warrior, with an MR between 47 and 60 something, I
was charmed at least 5 times in three hours; the other tank (the ranger)
probably had 3 or 4 himself by the time we broke up.
To make it even worse, the loot is still terrible (added to the list: a 9 AC
+10 sv vs poison tunic, and rumors of some sort of +5 wis one really deep in
I have no other info on); it's gotten to the point where the best our groups
managed to loot in two days was an FS two hander *outside* of the dungeon
itself.
After my first trip, I thought the dungeon was unencouraging; it was good
XP, but gave terrible loot. This time, I have to revise that- all of it past
the first 10% is a hideous deathtrap (with terrible loot).
When you see a group with a 50'th level shaman (Bearpaws) and a few of his
friends, most of whom must've been in the forties, struggling with the very
green to them spawn half a room away from your group which ranges from
28-31, you KNOW any XP you get from the place is going to be given back
reeeaaal soon...
When I wrote the first article, I said it was a first impression. Brad saw
it and asked for patience. No problem- I'm patiently awaiting the fixing of
this dungeon; right now, I see no reason for me not to take off to Cazic.
It's safer.
But to be fair, I'll go back in again tonight. Third time's the charm,
right???
...
jimmy bean
I'm a level 44 druid. Died 3 times in PAW, last night and today.
The first two deaths were due to bad choices of stopping places for our
group on our way into the dungeon (stopping to clear an area, then rest).
In both cases, lower level people came running, screaming by us, out of
the dungeon, bringing with them seven or more MOBs.
Sure enough... they'd be back... oh, not the zoned players... but the
pissed off Gnolls, swarming us.
That's not so bad, but the design of the dungeon leaves only a single
path in or out for a LONG ways. In otherwords, you need to get DEEP into
the dungeon to avoid such trains.
Well, the third effort, with a new group, saw a 50 Enchanter, 40 cleric,
myself (44 druid), and two 45ish Necromancers enter the fray.
We did quite well, for about 4 hours.
I say quite well... we got terrible loot. Killed several named. NO
loot. Executioner we killed about four times. Nothing on him. I mean
NOTHING. No booby prize to at least let you say, "I was here and killed
that thing." Nothing.
I left with three FS items, some nice gloves that are identical to the
snakeskin but ad +2 wis (got them off a low level mob at the front of the
dungeon... forget what type... not a named), a couple of gnoll skin
parchments I can't read yet, and a gnoll fang collar (+5 CHA +5 Sv
Disease or something like that).
Pretty weak stuff, for pulling and killing a lot of named stuff.
For the record, I found, given the make up of our group, and our camp
location, the experience to be equal in difficulty and challenge with
camping the king/priest/noble in Sol B. We were all 40-50, and I've
camped the king with 30-40's with less difficulty. Trains are FAR worse.
You can quickly find yourself with 7 gnolls in a room, and it's very easy
to miss one with snare, when you have gnolls occupying the same space,
and hitting with the same timing (hard to tell 2 are even there in this
case). Miss one snare, and they bolt, bringing back a LOT of friends.
In the end, that's what got us. Another group brought their train on us,
right as we'd pulled a named, and our own camping room popped. I don't
know how many gnolls were in the room, but I do know, between our
casting, and their casting, the entire room was completely full of spell
juice, and lag got pretty bad ;-).
Well, the end result, as I said, was pretty poor. NONE of the named
things we killed gave up anything. We got the poor man's loot off
regular gnolls. Seemed to be simply slightly improved versions of the
snakeskin armor that used to be there, off of similarly leveled (compared
to the rest) gnolls. But either they have not itemized the dungeon yet
(criminal laziness considering how long they've been planning this), or
they decided no common drop items would be included, and only rare.
Honestly, Verant, how hard is it to at LEAST take a level appropriate
weapon or item, change the stats slightly, give it a provocative name,
and give us something to take home with? Is it your idea that a full
day's play should be rewarded with nothing, and all adventurers saying,
"Well, that was fun anyway?"
Our group was too high to get much experience, but a lower level group
could never have held the area we did. As I said, I died again, and the
rest barely got out with their lives.
Even if that dungeon drops the coolest item in the game, without any
common drops, to give you SOMETHING fun to show for your time, it's not
worth it. We all left in disgust, deciding it was a bad show altogether.
I went and got my friend totemic greaves from that rare spawn cyclops in
Rathe instead. At least that bugger had something when I killed him!
All in all, I'd say it's a big flop. Like a stinker movie with a multi
million dollar advertisement. We all show up opening day, but in a week,
who will be there?
Oh, pretty good exp for 25-25 in the front rooms. Terrible loot, but a
non stop supply of stuff to kill, and since within a week nobody will be
doing the deeper dungeon, no big trains.
BTW - The only others working the deepest part of PAW were two groups
comprised entirely of level 50 players from the same guild. They were
there for a few hours, then all left, so I imagine they didn't get much
of interest.
Tricky
very few real brave souls dare to hunt there for exp and loots. And so
are upper guk and permafrost.
I only met a small guild ' Patronas Veritus' (sp?) fighting in those
places. And the fight was definately more exciting than those
unorganized fire giant tours.
Adar
Noslom @promaxis.com> <noslom<nospam543> wrote in message
news:yOD44.39718$m4.128...@news.magma.ca...
> That's all your OPINION, whether the new PAW is hunted much in
> a week or two is still unknown. Nice of you to make a prediction
> but other people can make just as valid ones the other way.
Last night, on opening: 70-90 people.
Today (2-3 PM): 40-60 people.
Tonight (7-8 PM): 15-30 people. Server population did NOT significantly
vary.
Get the picture?
>
> As for there being tons of casters I find that excellent. If you
> know what you are doing to keep control of fights they go
> down a lot easier than fighter types.
Know what you're doing? All right then; tell me how a group of L28-L33,
which that part of the dungeon is clearly designed for, take down a (small)
spawn of 2 enchanters, a cleric, and a fighter mob (high blue casters, low
red fighter to L30.)
You can even select the perfectly balanced group you'd like to do it with!
(/sarcasm)
Seems you wanted
> a place filled with dumb doggies like parts of Sol B. It
> would make no sense to populate a dungeon with similar
> stuff to another dungeon, it adds no variety.
>
This doesn't add to variety, either- right now, it's simply Mistmoore with
no loot.
> After a week or two I can see them looking at how many
> hunt in PAW and tweaking it a bit but there is no point
> until then as it's still up for grabs how viable it is.
>
I've been there two days *exclusively*, trying to find a way to hold the
room past the bridge. It can't be done. Tried again after I posted the
second article, this time with a group of pure casters all 3-5 levels higher
than me; in four tries, the net result was 3 trains to zone and a res, after
which I quit in disgust.
When I got in there late yesterday, I needed 1 1/4 bubbles till 31. When I
left, probably over 8 hours /played later, I had a third of a bubble to go-
and that was WITH a full XP res and with mostly excellent groups. Even in a
hell level, this is unacceptable; I died 3 times in two days, which for me
is insane, and ran or evaced to zone over 10 times. Ridiculous does not
begin to cover it.
This dungeon, in addition to having no loot, cannot be done by the levels
it's designed for. I did everything I could to get anything going at
all...and everything I tried (pulling from adjacent rooms, sitting quietly
in the room waiting for spawn, breaking blue trains, you name it) has
resulted in the same thing- us evacing, us running for zone, or our bodies
on the ground next to the other 20.
I *really* tried to find a way to do this at 30-35, but I think it might not
be possible. If anyone has any ideas, I'm open to suggestions as to what I
can do to make my groups in Paw viable; but making smartass comments without
ever being in the place is not helping...
Adar
Ben Wilson <B...@armoury1.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:HevMcBA1...@armoury1.demon.co.uk...
> In article <82uj34$v3o$1...@nntp8.atl.mindspring.net>, Adar <adar1@spamaway
> .mindspring.com> writes
> >When I wrote the first article, I said it was a first impression. Brad
saw
> >it and asked for patience. No problem- I'm patiently awaiting the fixing
of
> >this dungeon; right now, I see no reason for me not to take off to Cazic.
> >It's safer.
> >
> >But to be fair, I'll go back in again tonight. Third time's the charm,
> >right???
>
> The trains are HELL though. The second you cross the first bridge you
> just KNOW something bad is about to happen. Even if your group, or 2
> groups can handle a dozen regular mobs, throw 2 or 3 or 4 clerics into
> the mix, crosshealing each other, every time you get one down to 25%,
> bang, he's 75% again. even if you do hold your point on the tracks,
> there's a train from a slightly less fortunate group a little further
> down, just about to run a big train over your OOM toes.
>
> That said, +ve points include:
>
> 1/. One thing I *DO* love about it is that the new items can drop just
> about anywhere. From what I've seen thus far, there aren't NPC spawn
> points - one the first evel at least, though I did see someone killing
> an executioner.
Yeah, that's a plus. At least there isn't a line for the Wis gloves, since
they drop everywhere...
> 2/. When they run, they run slowly. The previous inhabitants of Paw were
> fast little buggers, and could easily outrun any no-SoWed player
The only time I was in the old Paw, besides a very brief stint, was with my
shaman, so I can't comment on that.
> 3/. There are lots of nice *little* goodies as loot - Nothing
> mindblowing has been found yet, but I'm hoping something good will drop
> soon
I hope so; right now, the stuff that we've been seeing is really L10-L15
caliber. 4 22 weaken? That's worse than Crookstinger...
> 4/. Shortlived, but the element of treading new snow can't be beaten.
> Knowing at any second you might come across a new mob, or an item that
> no-one's ever seen before - Spoiler sites are DAMN useful, but not
> knowing whats around the next bend makes a very nice change.
> --
I agree; but what we're going through is obscene. I know I saw you dragging
your corpse to the zone at least once, and I went down twice today myself.
That's all for me; until I hit the late 40's, I'm not coming back here
unless it's revamped again.
Alasdair Allan
Brad McQuaid <bmcq...@verant.com> wrote in article
<38520409...@verant.com>...
> Guys, please give it a chance and keep exploring. It is our intent to
make sure
> Paw is a well used dungeon, and if we need to tweak it to make it that
way, we
> will. But I think it's too early yet to tell.
>
> (we definitely appreciate the feedback -- please keep it coming).
What is it with your ideal of the game? Where has it gone wrong.
So much seems to have changed with your attitude and the way you attempt to
re-define playstyles in your image that frankly, I think you have lost the
plot. If you think the game is too easy (I think that would be a mistake)
adding a new dungeon with *hugely* increased difficulty for the experience
while *keeping the older dungeons the same* isn't going to reduce
over-crowding in the old dungeons. No-one will play the new one.
Here we have a dungeon, where the xp is lvl 25 to 40. Yet the player
requirement is level 30 to 45. The alternatives for 25 to 40 players are
High Keep, Cazic Thule, the upper levels (GK areas) of Solusek B.
In all three of these areas you *don't* have huge numbers of dangerous
casters. You don't have mobs that resist 25% of a level 50s casts. You
don't have anything *close* to the level of difficulty that the new Paw
has.
In this event, no-one will play the new dungeon. Look at Kedge for
goddamn's sake. There are some fucking *good* items in there. But I can
never get a group because the damn place is *always* empty (on Tarew Marr
anyway) due to the insanely high difficulty of the place compared to
Solusek B and Lower Guk.
You seem to be considering all changes in isolation. This is a huge
mistake.
In Socio-economics, there is something called "relative poverty". This
concept means that although someone may be rich compared to a similar
person in another place or time, if they do not have "luxuries" that are
considered the norm within their society, they are relatively poor.
The norm is that dungeons are playable without ensuring the group is filled
with quality players of higher level than the experience on offer. As such
Paw does not offer anything that will encourage players to go there. It is
probably a nice interesting design but as long as similar dungeons are
*many times* easier then it will be relatively poor in comparison.
--
Alasdair Allan, Ibrox, Glasgow |England - Country where Marx developed
x-st...@null.net | the basis of Communism
X-Static's Rangers Webzine |Scotland - Country where Smith developed
http://www.x-static.demon.co.uk/ | the basis of Capitalism
Silverlock
wrote:
>Guys, please give it a chance and keep exploring. It is our intent to make sure
>Paw is a well used dungeon, and if we need to tweak it to make it that way, we
>will. But I think it's too early yet to tell.
>
>(we definitely appreciate the feedback -- please keep it coming).
>
>thanks,
>
>-Brad
Why is it that none of the Dungeons are wide open spaces type places
like Akanon. If you made a wide open spaced place like that for your
expansion, it would be possible to move more without getting the room
camping effect, you could create mini dungeons inside the big zones
like the mines of malfunction in Akanon, which could be level
segregated, yet there would be enough space in the dungeon that groups
could get to the specialized sub dungeons without having to fight
their way past all sorts of lower level stuff that aggros anyway.
--
Silverlock, ICQ 474725
Household Pests? The SW-404 'SpitFire' APRL cleansing system
will remove them, we Guarantee IT! Not responsible for damage
to persons or structures from use of this product.
Dial 1-800-FRY-THEM for info and a home demonstration.
Silverlock
>On 11 Dec 1999 15:09:56 GMT, pir...@erols.com (Brett Hawn) wrote:
>
>>Brad,
>>
>> My first suggestion would be to actually decrease the number of spawn
>>spots, with the way these things run, its just TOOOO easy to start a train.
>>In the 2 or so hours we wandered last night I saw shouts of trains at least
>>18 times. Also, if you're aiming for the 30-45 crowd, add some more blue to
>>50 stuff, simply stated, I got bored as hell wandering around in paw after
>>the first 30 minutes, but my 46/47 guys in our group said they were getting
>>great xp down in the basement area.
>>
>
>
>Are you fucking high? Do you like sitting and waiting for mobs to
>spawn with a thumb up your ass? If not then stfu.
>
>Why don't you go bitch that unrest and cazic has too many trains. Get
>real lamer and get better at it.
>
>
>AD
Hey moron, he makes a calmly worded suggestion backed up by his
impressions from actually being there. You on the other hand look like
a inbred retards halfwit with your response.
Matthew Mc Clement
>
> <snip>
> >There's a 4 22 dagger which procs stun, a 3 20 whip with 3 ac
>
> The whip procs stun, there's a pic on EQLizer. There's a pic of a Gnoll
> Hide Tome on there too, -10 STR, +5 WIS, +10 INT, +15 HP, +10 SV POISON,
> usuable by pure casters only.
-10 str? You've got to be kidding me. Pure casters will barely be able to carry
anything now. At least my gnome is a mage and can summon weightless bags...
Matt
Ben Wilson
.mindspring.com> writes
>When I wrote the first article, I said it was a first impression. Brad saw
>it and asked for patience. No problem- I'm patiently awaiting the fixing of
>this dungeon; right now, I see no reason for me not to take off to Cazic.
>It's safer.
>
>But to be fair, I'll go back in again tonight. Third time's the charm,
>right???
I must say I pretty much agree with your points.
The trains are HELL though. The second you cross the first bridge you
just KNOW something bad is about to happen. Even if your group, or 2
groups can handle a dozen regular mobs, throw 2 or 3 or 4 clerics into
the mix, crosshealing each other, every time you get one down to 25%,
bang, he's 75% again. even if you do hold your point on the tracks,
there's a train from a slightly less fortunate group a little further
down, just about to run a big train over your OOM toes.
That said, +ve points include:
1/. One thing I *DO* love about it is that the new items can drop just
about anywhere. From what I've seen thus far, there aren't NPC spawn
points - one the first evel at least, though I did see someone killing
an executioner.
2/. When they run, they run slowly. The previous inhabitants of Paw were
fast little buggers, and could easily outrun any no-SoWed player
3/. There are lots of nice *little* goodies as loot - Nothing
mindblowing has been found yet, but I'm hoping something good will drop
soon
4/. Shortlived, but the element of treading new snow can't be beaten.
Knowing at any second you might come across a new mob, or an item that
no-one's ever seen before - Spoiler sites are DAMN useful, but not
knowing whats around the next bend makes a very nice change.
--
Demorgoth Demonia
<Desecrated Temple>
Ogre Warrior
E'ci
Noslom
a week or two is still unknown. Nice of you to make a prediction
but other people can make just as valid ones the other way.
As for there being tons of casters I find that excellent. If you
know what you are doing to keep control of fights they go
down a lot easier than fighter types. Seems you wanted
a place filled with dumb doggies like parts of Sol B. It
would make no sense to populate a dungeon with similar
stuff to another dungeon, it adds no variety.
After a week or two I can see them looking at how many
hunt in PAW and tweaking it a bit but there is no point
until then as it's still up for grabs how viable it is.
Noslom
Alasdair Allan wrote in message <01bf4438$fe91f960$cf81dec2@x-static>...
>
>
>Brad McQuaid <bmcq...@verant.com> wrote in article
><38520409...@verant.com>...
>> Guys, please give it a chance and keep exploring. It is our intent to
>make sure
>> Paw is a well used dungeon, and if we need to tweak it to make it that
>way, we
>> will. But I think it's too early yet to tell.
>>
>> (we definitely appreciate the feedback -- please keep it coming).
>
Noslom
>
>Noslom @promaxis.com> <noslom<nospam543> wrote in message
>news:yOD44.39718$m4.128...@news.magma.ca...
>> a week or two is still unknown. Nice of you to make a prediction
>> but other people can make just as valid ones the other way.
>
>Today (2-3 PM): 40-60 people.
>Tonight (7-8 PM): 15-30 people. Server population did NOT significantly
>vary.
>
>Get the picture?
Still only a 24 hour period, seems some of us have to sleep after
trying PAW out since it opened. Also with all the bad newsgroup
postings it might take a hit just because of a bad rep. Also a lot
of guilds didn't try it yet so more should be coming over the
next week or so.
>>
>> As for there being tons of casters I find that excellent. If you
>> know what you are doing to keep control of fights they go
>> down a lot easier than fighter types.
>
>Know what you're doing? All right then; tell me how a group of L28-L33,
>which that part of the dungeon is clearly designed for, take down a (small)
>spawn of 2 enchanters, a cleric, and a fighter mob (high blue casters, low
>red fighter to L30.)
>
>You can even select the perfectly balanced group you'd like to do it with!
>(/sarcasm)
Ok, we cleared our way in past the 1st bridge (that you walk over),
took the 3rd door and behind it is a nice large open area. This area
is large enough to be able to seperate monsters in. Start fight at
one end and root (or higher spell in root line) the ones you don't
want to fight right away. Then move to the other side just out of
casting range (varies based on spell, we usually rooted fighters,
clerics, necros, enchanters in that order for range considerations.)
If you have an enchanter have them cast mez on the caster you
are figting every time it tries to cast (mez interrupts spells and
costs like 10 mana.) Can also use mez instead of root if you
have an enchanter as well (we didn't have one most of the time.)
Also tanks with shields and bash can work a lot better against
casters than ones with a 2H wpn or dual wielding.
>Seems you wanted
>> a place filled with dumb doggies like parts of Sol B. It
>> would make no sense to populate a dungeon with similar
>> stuff to another dungeon, it adds no variety.
>>
>
>This doesn't add to variety, either- right now, it's simply Mistmoore with
>no loot.
MM does not have nearly the same mix of casters, also PAW
does not suffer from 'empty the castle runners.' So far the loot
has been nice. Most complaints are from the shopping crowd
who want a list of named spawns and cool loot posted instantly.
That way they can make shopping lists and camp all the spots like
they do eveywhere else. For example perma is nice but if you take
an appropriate leveled group there (say low 20's) you get nothing
for loot as each loot spot is camped, same with a lot of the good
items elsewhere.
>> After a week or two I can see them looking at how many
>> hunt in PAW and tweaking it a bit but there is no point
>> until then as it's still up for grabs how viable it is.
>>
>
>I've been there two days *exclusively*, trying to find a way to hold the
>room past the bridge. It can't be done. Tried again after I posted the
>second article, this time with a group of pure casters all 3-5 levels
higher
>than me; in four tries, the net result was 3 trains to zone and a res,
after
>which I quit in disgust.
Which room? The one just before the 3 doors? Bad spot, go in the third
door to the nice open area so you can seperate monsters. You can then
pull from behind the other two doors or from deeper in over yet another
bridge.
>When I got in there late yesterday, I needed 1 1/4 bubbles till 31. When I
>left, probably over 8 hours /played later, I had a third of a bubble to go-
>and that was WITH a full XP res and with mostly excellent groups. Even in a
>hell level, this is unacceptable; I died 3 times in two days, which for me
>is insane, and ran or evaced to zone over 10 times. Ridiculous does not
>begin to cover it.
All I can say is I 've spent a while there and mostly had to run to zone
from other peoples trains before we managed to move deep enough
in that most didn't come past us. For a low 30's group you can also
pull to and hold the rooms to the right just in from zone, they are off
train paths and have a few spawns in them (course they seem to be
taken most of the time)
>This dungeon, in addition to having no loot, cannot be done by the levels
>it's designed for. I did everything I could to get anything going at
>all...and everything I tried (pulling from adjacent rooms, sitting quietly
>in the room waiting for spawn, breaking blue trains, you name it) has
>resulted in the same thing- us evacing, us running for zone, or our bodies
>on the ground next to the other 20.
Low 30's groups can do fine there, just have to be careful and develop
some tactics. Depending on where you hunted before you may have
had it too easy. For example it takes no skill to hunt HH now because
of so many groups there. Spend too much time there and you don't
develop your skills (no need to) and you get waxed in a harder area.
To hold an area you must clear the room one at a time (if they die
close together because eveybody is attacking a different one
they will spawn together and cause grief in the middle of a pull.)
Then pull from close areas back to the area you have cleared.
Try and use lull/soothe etc to break them up or even just root one
so you only fight one for the first bit. When the extras come try
and root some of them away from the fight (I usually ping pong
between two spots rooting) Root breaks a lot because the monster
gets a save vs it each time it is attacked. If you don't attack it then
it lasts a lot longer (the higher versions last even longer.)
>I *really* tried to find a way to do this at 30-35, but I think it might
not
>be possible. If anyone has any ideas, I'm open to suggestions as to what I
>can do to make my groups in Paw viable; but making smartass comments
without
>ever being in the place is not helping...
Basically you need high magic resist, some method of mob control
(mez, root to seperate, root pull etc) and a large enough area to
work in away from major trains. Also make sure you break up the
spawns so they don't all spawn in at once and swamp you.
I hope you have better luck there, it is harder than some other places
but it's a nice change. I know people who did doggies in sol B
from 30 to 47 which would drive me nuts - I can't stand being in
the same area every long, just too boring.
Noslom
Ben Wilson
<j...@a.com> writes
> a couple of gnoll skin
>parchments I can't read yet,
Oh, they confused me for a while too, but seeing as I'm rather smart for
an Ogre, I wasn't stumped for long...
"Fear not my brethren. We have taken this home and
we shall make it our own! Use what resources we have
to establish ourselves here. Care not about...blah...blah...blah..."
Ben Wilson
.mindspring.com> writes
>I agree; but what we're going through is obscene. I know I saw you dragging
>your corpse to the zone at least once, and I went down twice today myself.
>That's all for me; until I hit the late 40's, I'm not coming back here
>unless it's revamped again.
<raises hand>
Yup - that was me );o)
Shame I was in post-hell level too - 1.25 bubs per death sure hurts. I
died a few times, got the occasional exp res, killed a hell of a lot,
and ended up about 1.5 bubs down in total for the day - Not too bad all
in all
However, if this continues past to point where newness-factor wears off
I won't be staying. I love an adventure, but when the aventure becomes a
reteap of losing experience day in day out, it's time to go elsewhere.
I'm stubborn as hell. I lost over a level trying everything I could
think of to get into Neriak to raise enough faction there. Why? Just so
I could explore it coz it looked cool. <shrugs> No biggie, eventually
gave up, went out and got back all the lost exp. Same with paw - I'll
give it a level's worth of exp or a week of trying before I decide to
stay or move on. I know a lot of ppl who have given up on it already.
<note> IF <or when> you do decide to tweak Paw, maybe you shouldn't
announce it. Ok, so it won't give you the instant gratification of
filling the zone again with expectant players, but those who carry on
there regardless would be more likely to give a balanced view on whether
the changes make a significant difference. News of new items and change
in difficulty will filter through Norath on the grapevine quickly enough
without a patch message, and logging on to L50s swarming around looking
for something new won't give the right results. All IMHO of course
Adar
> Adar wrote in message <82v86l$vj1$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>...
> >
> >Noslom @promaxis.com> <noslom<nospam543> wrote in message
> >news:yOD44.39718$m4.128...@news.magma.ca...
> >> That's all your OPINION, whether the new PAW is hunted much in
> >> a week or two is still unknown. Nice of you to make a prediction
> >> but other people can make just as valid ones the other way.
> >
> >Last night, on opening: 70-90 people.
> >Today (2-3 PM): 40-60 people.
> >Tonight (7-8 PM): 15-30 people. Server population did NOT significantly
> >vary.
> >
> >Get the picture?
>
>
> Still only a 24 hour period, seems some of us have to sleep after
> trying PAW out since it opened. Also with all the bad newsgroup
> postings it might take a hit just because of a bad rep. Also a lot
> of guilds didn't try it yet so more should be coming over the
> next week or so.
>
I'll give you that, but IMO, the bad rep is deserved.
It looks like you had a lot better luck than we did with that third door.
None of my group had any problems clearing out the original spawn past the
bridge, since we could pull the bridge itself separately from the room. We'd
do that, set up in that room, then try to pull from any of the other three
doors.
From Door 1 (staircase up), we'd get 3 spawns (no way to separate them),
fighters if we're lucky, casters if not. Interrupting 3 casters with 6
people is impossible without an enchanter- sooner or later one gets through,
and then either the enchanter is healed, or the tank beating on the
enchanter (me) is charmed and goes after everyone else. Not to say that we
couldn't handle it, but we'd be nearly OOM afterwards, and then the original
room began spawning on us too. Bad idea.
From Door 2 (the one directly right of the bridge room), we'd get either 2
or 4, depending on the skill of our puller. Didn't see if that one went
anywhere, since any time we got 4, we were evacing; when we did get 2, it
was easy enough, but the casters would still use at least half their mana on
them (since chances were one would be a cleric), and pulling at 50% mana is
not something you can do in Paw anyway.
Door 3 (make a right at Door 2) was *worse*. I tried opening that door
twice. The first time, the enchanter/cleric combo past the door rushed out-
and brought all the occupants of Door 2 with them (no, I didn't open it- but
doesn't seem like it mattered.) The second time, a day later, they not only
brought Door 2, they also invited their friends somewhere behind them- I
didnt stay to look. Might be a pathing problem there somewhere...
> >Seems you wanted
> >> a place filled with dumb doggies like parts of Sol B. It
> >> would make no sense to populate a dungeon with similar
> >> stuff to another dungeon, it adds no variety.
> >>
> >
> >This doesn't add to variety, either- right now, it's simply Mistmoore
with
> >no loot.
>
>
> MM does not have nearly the same mix of casters, also PAW
> does not suffer from 'empty the castle runners.'
True; it's not the bugs that are the problem.
> So far the loot
> has been nice. Most complaints are from the shopping crowd
> who want a list of named spawns and cool loot posted instantly.
> That way they can make shopping lists and camp all the spots like
> they do eveywhere else. For example perma is nice but if you take
> an appropriate leveled group there (say low 20's) you get nothing
> for loot as each loot spot is camped, same with a lot of the good
> items elsewhere.
>
I am on Sam's side here. Basically, the loot is terrible because it's poorly
designed. Take a look at the better drops:
AC 12, 5 Dex, +7 poison shield- inferior to most shields in it's class, and
probably rare drop off a 40+ mob. Why bother?
8 31 +6 Agi +5 poison 1hs- No Drop, and waaay inferior to a Painbringer. If
you can get one, you can get the other.
10 38 +5 Dex proc:Strong Poison 1hs- No Drop, slightly better than a
crystalline blade, slightly worse than the runed falchion, and takes more
effort to get than either. Again, why bother? (Although this *is* the best
of the lot...)
Tome: Inferior to a 200 pp at best Glowing Stein. Rare drop off a 40+ mob...
Perma has items that are better than anything else in a certain level range;
a level-appropriate group can camp them, or a single bored L50 can, too.
Paw has items that are slightly inferior to their level range; a level
appropriate group would probably die on the way, and there's no way anyone
working alone can get any of them.
> >> After a week or two I can see them looking at how many
> >> hunt in PAW and tweaking it a bit but there is no point
> >> until then as it's still up for grabs how viable it is.
> >>
> >
> >I've been there two days *exclusively*, trying to find a way to hold the
> >room past the bridge. It can't be done. Tried again after I posted the
> >second article, this time with a group of pure casters all 3-5 levels
> higher
> >than me; in four tries, the net result was 3 trains to zone and a res,
> after
> >which I quit in disgust.
>
>
> Which room? The one just before the 3 doors? Bad spot, go in the third
> door to the nice open area so you can seperate monsters. You can then
> pull from behind the other two doors or from deeper in over yet another
> bridge.
>
See above. We got swarmed every time we tried that. Bad luck? Too many
casters spawning? No clue, but I'm not trying again. Maybe it *can* be done,
but Cazic is a thousand times safer, and the mages in the party are happier
because at least they drop research stuff...
> >When I got in there late yesterday, I needed 1 1/4 bubbles till 31. When
I
> >left, probably over 8 hours /played later, I had a third of a bubble to
go-
> >and that was WITH a full XP res and with mostly excellent groups. Even in
a
> >hell level, this is unacceptable; I died 3 times in two days, which for
me
> >is insane, and ran or evaced to zone over 10 times. Ridiculous does not
> >begin to cover it.
>
>
> All I can say is I 've spent a while there and mostly had to run to zone
> from other peoples trains before we managed to move deep enough
> in that most didn't come past us. For a low 30's group you can also
> pull to and hold the rooms to the right just in from zone, they are off
> train paths and have a few spawns in them (course they seem to be
> taken most of the time)
>
That's the only place in the dungeon that's worthwhile, and only if no one
else is there- then you can pull the whole area from the entrance to the
double doors inside those rooms, since there are no casters till that point.
Safe XP, but boring.
> >This dungeon, in addition to having no loot, cannot be done by the levels
> >it's designed for. I did everything I could to get anything going at
> >all...and everything I tried (pulling from adjacent rooms, sitting
quietly
> >in the room waiting for spawn, breaking blue trains, you name it) has
> >resulted in the same thing- us evacing, us running for zone, or our
bodies
> >on the ground next to the other 20.
>
>
> Low 30's groups can do fine there, just have to be careful and develop
> some tactics. Depending on where you hunted before you may have
> had it too easy. For example it takes no skill to hunt HH now because
> of so many groups there. Spend too much time there and you don't
> develop your skills (no need to) and you get waxed in a harder area.
>
Spent one level in HH, got bored, and left. When I've been grouping lately,
I've been fighting in Cazic and Sol A. If I could always get a group in Sol
A, I'd never leave...
> To hold an area you must clear the room one at a time (if they die
> close together because eveybody is attacking a different one
> they will spawn together and cause grief in the middle of a pull.)
> Then pull from close areas back to the area you have cleared.
> Try and use lull/soothe etc to break them up or even just root one
> so you only fight one for the first bit. When the extras come try
> and root some of them away from the fight (I usually ping pong
> between two spots rooting) Root breaks a lot because the monster
> gets a save vs it each time it is attacked. If you don't attack it then
> it lasts a lot longer (the higher versions last even longer.)
>
>
Problem is, every time our group tried any of that (and we tried everything-
we even had an enchanter who knew what he was doing for a while), we'd still
wind up getting swarmed by 4-5 mobs. I think the magic number is 3- if you
can pull 3 or less, 2 or less of which are casters, you can control the
fight. Well, we never got to that number; we may've done it for an hour or
two, but then something would happen and we'd still go down. After trying
all that, I'm prepared to say that clerics and enchanters together is not
something I'm willing to fight against again.
Noslom
>Door 3 (make a right at Door 2) was *worse*. I tried opening that door
>twice. The first time, the enchanter/cleric combo past the door rushed out-
>and brought all the occupants of Door 2 with them (no, I didn't open it-
but
>doesn't seem like it mattered.) The second time, a day later, they not only
>brought Door 2, they also invited their friends somewhere behind them- I
>didnt stay to look. Might be a pathing problem there somewhere...
Ok, we pulled all the bridge spawn and the stuff behind the doors back
into the large area before zone. Then we went in past the third door and
set things up. Today I saw several groups try and hold the small area
across the first bridge, all of them failed - it's probably THE most
dangerous spot in the dungeon. There are just too many gnolls close
at hand. Some even open the doors and join in if you are too close.
Also since it's the first spot the main path divides up, it is a major
train station - any train from deeper is going to come right by you.
Also any lower levels peeking behind the doors can easily pull more
than they can handle. If people fight them at zone then give up it
can be a long time before it come back and my do so at a bad time.
Clear the area and move past it as quickly as you can. Staying there
is deadly even to a group of mid 40's.
>See above. We got swarmed every time we tried that. Bad luck? Too many
>casters spawning? No clue, but I'm not trying again. Maybe it *can* be
done,
>but Cazic is a thousand times safer, and the mages in the party are happier
>because at least they drop research stuff...
Bad spot - don't think anybody can hold that area safely. You will always
get
swarmed there. If you pull the local stuff there back further (and tell
others
closer to zone that they are up from grabs - free pulls) you should be able
to clear it fast enough to be able to go past that area to safer parts.
>Problem is, every time our group tried any of that (and we tried
everything-
>we even had an enchanter who knew what he was doing for a while), we'd
still
>wind up getting swarmed by 4-5 mobs. I think the magic number is 3- if you
>can pull 3 or less, 2 or less of which are casters, you can control the
>fight. Well, we never got to that number; we may've done it for an hour or
>two, but then something would happen and we'd still go down. After trying
>all that, I'm prepared to say that clerics and enchanters together is not
>something I'm willing to fight against again.
After getting past the third door and setting up in the nice large alcove to
the left as you look in from the door we were able to pull small numbers
from deeper across the bridge. We tried a bit from the other doors but
the pulls never seemed good (as you experienced as well.) If you
try this be careful of the snakes a bit deeper in, they have strong
poison that should be cured quickly to avoid losing extra health.
When pulling deeper we did some root pulls. This breaks them up some
so even if 3 will eventually come only 2 drop by for the first part of the
fight. I also tried soothe/lull on some and had about a 30% success rate
of getting one to stay behind, sometimes soothing one in the middle of
3 let us pull the close one solo. Can't count on soothe/lull working but
when it does it breaks the spawns up nicely. Also when pulling I would
stop a ways away from the group and root one mob, move closer
root another, etc. If you know which are just fighters you can root
them first. Makes a fight a lot easier when some mobs can't hit
you. Just make sure the casters don't blast the ones that are rooted
, all it will do is make root break faster.
As for comments about the loot - I don't like camping items and hate
working my way in to an area only to find a small numbers of lvl 50's
camping for some item. Better if the items are the best that way I
can actually get them while exploring. Sol A is like this, not very
many campers so you can get some items while exploring. But
that is me - I dragged my guild to perma to do the deeper
Ice Giants and Spider just for the new fights and areas to explore.
And good luck in Paw :) Hope you eventually have as much fun
as I do there.
Noslom
Frank Williamson
there at all?
That made me laugh.
I spent the weekend there.
If you are lookin for a place to solo blues.. PaW aint it.
If you are lookin to sharpen group tactics with mid 30's group.. it is a
GREAT place.
Lethal.
Swarmy.
Check your complacent 'ho hum just another camp' routine at the door please
:)
I blew through 36th there
.. died once, ressed by Inana, the Lady of Steel
..had some great fights (our group of 6 took out 4 and lived)
.. some great runs (zoned with 20hp left out of 1260 once)
.. a few great evacs..(all of us made it out when 10 gnolls trained into
us!!)
..just plain slaughtered once (runner!.. brought back 8 or so..I stood and
delivered screamin for the casters to gate .. Drucilla and Bapak made it
out.. Fedin Bearkiller went down with me.
In all, for a 36th warrior.. it is a great place.
-Grayeagle .. now a 37th warrior even so.
abatt...@netscape.net
>>poison) drop...giant snake fangs and rattles. There's a 4 22
>>dagger which procs stun,
> 4/22? You've GOT to be shitting me! Why not make it 5/19 or 6/23?
> Sigh... it could have been such a nice weapon, too...
i think the whip is the one that procs stun... my group got one from one of the
gnolls outside paw last night :). maybe there's a dagger too.
>>a 3 20 whip with 3 ac (bard/rogue/ranger
>>only, which eliminates anyone who might've actually wanted it),
> Honestly I don't see why anyone would want it. Perhaps if it was 8 or
> 9 AC, but even then it's such a shitty weapon that I doubt it.
it might be an okay weapon (since it procs stun) for dual wielding against
casters.
> Now THAT is a problem. There *must* be loot equivalent to the other
> 35-45 dungeons, or people simply will not go there. Hell, Cazic's
> loot now SUCKS... unless you're a rogue, there are three items in the
> entire place that you might want: the lizzie cloak, mantle, and the
> lizard blood potion... and now Cazic is almost empty during
> primetime.
i wish cazic was almost empty during primetime on Tribunal server. There were
30 people there on Sunday afternoon, and at least three groups in the throne
room and two on gators. Aside from the items you mentioned (which i want the
mantle :), there's also the Lizardscale Tribal Mask, which i got from a clay
golem a few weeks ago. Tis a 3 ac 5 agi 5 vs magic mask. Supposedly worth
400p, but I don't think its worth THAT much (i got roughly 150 in trade for it
:)
> It needs several named drops with common and rare. Probably around
> ten or twelve named mobs would be perfect.
> I expected several kinds of upgraded snakeskin armor, along with a
> few miscellaneous items (a shoulder item for monks, boots that grant
> wisdom, etc) and some decent weapons. A pity they didn't come through
> for us. Another wasted dungeon with item drops way below it's level,
> hooray.
that seems to be the theme... in order to get a decent item for a mid 20's
level character, you need to go to lower guk, sol B, or the planes. but at mid
20's you can't go to any because you're not powerful enough. to get more
powerful you need decent items from one of those dungeons, rinse repeat, throw
up. rusty weapons should drop on level 1-8 mobs, bronze on 9-15, and fine
steel on 16-25. anything higher than that should have more powerful items;
magical weapons and armors, that sort of thing. busts me up when my party
slays a 30th level goblin that drops 3 plat, but only has a rusty weapon. guh.
--
josh
abatt...@netscape.net
> Guys, please give it a chance and keep exploring. It is our intent to make sure
> Paw is a well used dungeon, and if we need to tweak it to make it that way, we
> will. But I think it's too early yet to tell.
:-). My character is only level 27 right now, and probably won't venture into
Paw until 30th or after in a full group. However, I can speak about the gnolls
OUTSIDE - This is great! The spawn seems erratic, but I made a bubble of
experience in an hour and a half or two hours or so... pretty good for me!
<Grin>.
The outside helps to take away some of the camping around the Aviak trees, and
from what we figured there's about 6 gnolls that spawn out there, and two of
them run around a bit. the loot WAS terrible though, i can make more money
faster killing the raiders near the stone bridge in an hour than i would
killing these gnolls all day!
but I think the new paw is a good thing, if only for the level 25-29 gnolls
outside :-).
--
josh
abatt...@netscape.net
> When I wrote the first article, I said it was a first impression. Brad saw
> it and asked for patience. No problem- I'm patiently awaiting the fixing of
> this dungeon; right now, I see no reason for me not to take off to Cazic.
> It's safer.
I have yet to get a first impression, other than the gnolls outside. Though I
did make experience faster on these than I did at Cazic (gators). And the loot
was better than the gators (all i got were a bunch of lore magic items, broom,
stein, etc). If I can't get a group for the outside paw gnolls, i'll head back
to cazic or highkeep. but I like fighting on the plains!
> But to be fair, I'll go back in again tonight. Third time's the charm,
> right???
Something like that anyway! Good luck, at any rate!
--
josh
Sophist
mrju...@REMOVETHISPART.hotmail.com says...
> I think the comparison to Mistmoore is quite apt, and it will be
> underpopulated, just as Mistmoore is. Heavy amounts of casters, +
> runners, + high mob concentration = insane, instant death trains,
> probably FREQUENT, instant death trains, and no one finds these fun
> but the pricks who hit the runner or the (still bugged) pet at the
> entrance area of mistmoore. High risk of instant death because of
> someone elses screwups and the experience penalty don't mix well.
>
> On a side not, I wonder if they will ever look into revamping
> Mistmoore a bit. It's itemized, and interesting, but there are more
> people willing to brave Fear itself than brave the castle.
>
Good points. However I'm one of the admittedly few that quite likes
Mistmoore, especially for the mid levels (25-35 say). I've found Paw
quite enjoyable too thus far. It's definitely a place that requires
a full group, and trains are as much of a problem there as in
Mistmoore. But it is workable from my limited experience.
What I would like to see with some of the dungeons like Mistmoore
and Paw is a second entrance point. Something similar in nature to L
Guk or Sol B where you have various entry/exit points. This would no
doubt be a big undertaking for MM or Paw due to the fact that it
would require a lot of new art.
Paw would be the hardest because you'd likely need to rework the art
for S Kara to accommodate one or two more entry points for deeper
areas of the dungeon. MM might not be as bad though if you made the
castle area its own zone (or something to that effect).
Alternatively you might just make a second entry point from L Fay
into the Castle itself.
Undoubtedly both of these would take a lot more resources than are
available, but I think that would go a long way to making more
appealing to all, thus pulling the load off of other areas.
Sophist
Olaf
despite the nice delay of 20. Its dam/delay ratio is as bad as rusty stuff.
The proc doesnt proc all that much, and is resisted a lot. Even when it
does proc, it doesnt seem to do much (like the mob misses one round, big
shit). The 3AC is an interesting touch, but I can think of many, many
better weps for the classes that can use the whip. Maybe if they would
crank the whip to 5/20 or change the proc or something, people might use it.
I got the whip off a gnoll outside Paw.
As far as the gloves go, they drop off the gnolls outside of paw (in SK), as
does a lot of the stuff. The mask does, and so does the limp dagger with
the weaken proc.
As far as the gnolls go, they are pretty damn tough for being blue mobs.
Much harder than aviak harriers and centaur coursers, who both seem to be
around the same level as the gnolls.
olaf
abatt...@netscape.net
> I got the whip (gnoll hide lariat). It sucks. 3 is simply lame damage,
> despite the nice delay of 20. Its dam/delay ratio is as bad as rusty stuff.
> The proc doesnt proc all that much, and is resisted a lot. Even when it
aye, the ranger in our group that got the whip was dual wielding it, and it
went off a few times, but he said the damage was something like 5 to 10.. egad
thats lame, my spear does more than that! :P
> better weps for the classes that can use the whip. Maybe if they would
> crank the whip to 5/20 or change the proc or something, people might use it.
> I got the whip off a gnoll outside Paw.
5/20 would make it worthwhile i think, isn't the combine scimitar that the
low-mid druids are fond of 5/21? something like that anyway...
> As far as the gloves go, they drop off the gnolls outside of paw (in SK), as
> does a lot of the stuff. The mask does, and so does the limp dagger with
> the weaken proc.
i sure hope i can get a pair. the first pair went for 200p, that is just
outrageous for a +2 ANYTHING item. even wis. blah, poop on that. :P
> As far as the gnolls go, they are pretty damn tough for being blue mobs.
> Much harder than aviak harriers and centaur coursers, who both seem to be
> around the same level as the gnolls.
aye, and the gnolls resist my spells a HELL of a lot more than anything else
i've fought to date. i can get more walking sleeps to stick on pickclaw
raiders - 5-6 levels higher than me, than i could get on the gnolls. guh.
--
josh
Adar
<abatt...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:z_e54.1271$EF6....@news.rdc1.az.home.com...
> Drew Pritsker <dpri...@liberate.com> wrote:
> > Let me suggest that when you compare this to the guard critters in the
> > other dungeons, this is ok. For example, what do the skellies in najena
> > drop, or the froglok sentries, or the lm broodlings. Thats what you have
> > to compare these drops with. I expect that as you go deeper you will
find
> > much better stuff. And Im sure some 8th lvl rogue would love that
lariat...
>
> i wouldn't want that lariat with my level 4 ranger =P, don't know that a
rogue
> would be much different. (giant snake fang is probably "better").
>
Since that lariat doesn't proc till your early 20's, I'm pretty sure I
wouldn't want it with a level *1* ranger...
abatt...@netscape.net
> Let me suggest that when you compare this to the guard critters in the
> other dungeons, this is ok. For example, what do the skellies in najena
> drop, or the froglok sentries, or the lm broodlings. Thats what you have
> to compare these drops with. I expect that as you go deeper you will find
> much better stuff. And Im sure some 8th lvl rogue would love that lariat...
i wouldn't want that lariat with my level 4 ranger =P, don't know that a rogue
would be much different. (giant snake fang is probably "better").
--
josh