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Peter Ward
May 7, 2013, 4:41:48 AM5/7/13
to
I'm currently attempting to play a mage (at Adept difficulty) using no
physical armour, and wielding no weapons, not even bound weapons. I've
had to give up on the lack of armour, as I found the armour spells
inadequate. I managed up to nearly level 30 without, and only died to
one boss (several times) - Evil Knevel (Tongue Chieftain Knevel in
Volunruud). I finaly defeated him after fetching Lydia to help[1], and
doing a lot of running away. But it got so that wilderness encounters
were getting too hairy, particularly the tougher bears, and draugr
deathlords and the like hit very hard, so I've made myself a nice set of
elven armour.
I had all three of alteration's mage armour perks, and thanks to the
legendary skill option I've taken alteration round the clock, so to
speak, back to 70, freeing up those perk points to put into light
armour. I then levelled up light armour to 60. It was that, or start a
new character. I feel a lot more secure now.
Levelling is much slower as a mage, I find, mostly because some magic
skills, mostly destruction (inherently slow, it seems) and conjuration
(one or two conjurations per battle, rather than many hits with a
weapon) are slow to level up, even with the Mage Stone boost.
Overall, I'm enjoying the character. She's a high elf, and I don't
think I'd like to try this with any other race, as the 50 bonus to base
magicka is very helpful, particularly at the start. I've had to learn
to manage Magicka, and look forward to getting my enchanting up in order
to make some good magicka regeneration kit. I miss my robes of
destruction with 75% faster regeneration, now that I'm using armour, and
also the sneak bonuses that come when using weapons. I'm a naturally
sneaky player, and usually get a lot of use from a bow, particularly as
I can often remain undetected after shooting someone, which is not
usually possible when firing off a spell.
I've only used an illusion spell in battle once. If anyone has tips on
using these spells, I'd be interested. Having tried them previously, I
found that too often the enemies I met were over the level limit for the
spells I have available, and it's not a good idea to be using up magicka
on a spell which won't work. I think there should at least be a chance
that a spell would work on the higher level enemies, or some way of
telling what level your opponent is so that you know if it's worth
trying.
I was wondering what other's thoughts were on playing a pure (well
mine's slightly sullied with armour, now) mage.
[1] I like to play without a companion, beyond my trusty storm atronach
inna stick - I get to the College of Winterhold as soon as I can and
make the staff at the atronach forge.
--
Peter, from outside the asylum
I'm an alien
email: usenet at peterward dot adsl24 dot co dot uk
I find television very educational. Every time someone switches it on I
go into another room and read a good book.
- Groucho Marx
Xocyll
May 7, 2013, 10:23:04 AM5/7/13
to
Peter Ward <ad...@127.0.0.1> looked up from reading the entrails of the
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>I'm currently attempting to play a mage (at Adept difficulty) using no
>physical armour, and wielding no weapons, not even bound weapons. I've
>had to give up on the lack of armour, as I found the armour spells
>inadequate. I managed up to nearly level 30 without, and only died to
>one boss (several times) - Evil Knevel (Tongue Chieftain Knevel in
>Volunruud). I finaly defeated him after fetching Lydia to help[1], and
>doing a lot of running away. But it got so that wilderness encounters
>were getting too hairy, particularly the tougher bears, and draugr
>deathlords and the like hit very hard, so I've made myself a nice set of
>elven armour.
Yeah armor is kind of a must.
>I had all three of alteration's mage armour perks, and thanks to the
>legendary skill option I've taken alteration round the clock, so to
>speak, back to 70, freeing up those perk points to put into light
>armour. I then levelled up light armour to 60. It was that, or start a
>new character. I feel a lot more secure now.
I actually never bothered with these. See Below
>Levelling is much slower as a mage, I find, mostly because some magic
>skills, mostly destruction (inherently slow, it seems) and conjuration
>(one or two conjurations per battle, rather than many hits with a
>weapon) are slow to level up, even with the Mage Stone boost.
Since you have alteration you can actually take your time training
destruction up somewhat (once you have lots of mana regen anyway)
There are actually very few things in the game that are immune to
paralyze, so you can paralyze things then kill them slowly with
something like flames for maximum destruction training.
Just watch out for the few things that are immune, it can come as a bit
of a nasty shock.
Use lots of mana and paralyze only lasts a few seconds so you have to
recast it a lot - but things like cave bears become a walk in the park
when they can't attack at all.
The downside is with paralyze on one hand, you can't dual cast whatever
destruction spell you're using.
>Overall, I'm enjoying the character. She's a high elf, and I don't
>think I'd like to try this with any other race, as the 50 bonus to base
>magicka is very helpful, particularly at the start. I've had to learn
>to manage Magicka, and look forward to getting my enchanting up in order
>to make some good magicka regeneration kit. I miss my robes of
>destruction with 75% faster regeneration, now that I'm using armour, and
>also the sneak bonuses that come when using weapons. I'm a naturally
>sneaky player, and usually get a lot of use from a bow, particularly as
>I can often remain undetected after shooting someone, which is not
>usually possible when firing off a spell.
As a Pure mage you need to get enchanting up as fast as possible, since
you're going to need multiple items of destruction fortification and
mana regen in order to be able to spam attack spells in the mid to late
game.
The upper tier destruction spells are a complete waste of time - long
cast time, interruptible and the damage is not that great.
I actually ended up using fireball and ice storm the most, with
thunderbolt for single target "must not hit bystanders" situations.
FB and IS are not the hardest hitting, but they are AOE and they have a
knockback/stagger effect which can keep you alive by stopping attacks
from even being made, making them very handy indeed - and the AOE aspect
means you can hit things that are around corners - ice storm even goes
through bars to hit things.
If you're playing unmodded with only 4 armor pieces and the limitations
on what can be enchanted with what you're going to have a hard time and
run low/out of mana a lot unless you put all your points into mana
(which is a death sentence, since you are going to get hit.)
I put most in mana on my first game and regretted it a great deal later
on when I started getting one and two-shotted a lot.
Regen health doesn't help when you get hit twice and die.
>I've only used an illusion spell in battle once. If anyone has tips on
>using these spells, I'd be interested. Having tried them previously, I
>found that too often the enemies I met were over the level limit for the
>spells I have available, and it's not a good idea to be using up magicka
>on a spell which won't work. I think there should at least be a chance
>that a spell would work on the higher level enemies, or some way of
>telling what level your opponent is so that you know if it's worth
>trying.
The only illusion spell worth a damn is Invisibility, and you get that
pretty late.
The good thing is you can fast train illusion since you can cast buff
spells like courage on any random towns person and improve it.
>I was wondering what other's thoughts were on playing a pure (well
>mine's slightly sullied with armour, now) mage.
Mods. Mods. Mods.
Clothing mods giving you more wearable items to enchant.
An enchant anything mod to remove the silly limitation on what
enchantment can be put on what item (which is NOT how all the previous
games were, so removing it is fair.)
With these two things you could enchant a full set of 7 gear items
reducing destruction magic costs to 0 (15% reduction is the best you can
get with 100 enchanting.)
A multiple jewelry mod might be worth it as well - I use one that allows
2 rings, but there are others that allow multiple necklaces and 10
rings.
If only they all showed on the character you could be all like "I pity
the Fool who challenges my Magic!"
You either wait until you get 100 enchanting for the 2 spells per item
perk, or grab a mod for that (there's one that puts one at 50% I think
and leaves the existing one at 100% so you could put 4 spells per item -
I haven't used it.)
Destruction/alteration is a good combo to get to low/0 cost if using the
paralyze trick.
Another enchantment is regen health - you really do need several of
these. They seem to appear in Solitude first - often at that snooty
clothing store.
Possibly a magic mod as well to introduce new attack spells and/or
reintroduce old Elder Scrolls spells like Levitate, Water Walking,
Tinur's Hoptoad, Beast of Burden, Chameleon and such.
I use one called Spells of the Third Era for this - nothing overpowered,
mostly just utility spells.
There are some complete magic overhauls available, but I haven't tried
many of those yet (and the most interesting sounding one I'd found on
nexus is defunct - killed by the latest patch.)
Due to the enchanting system Bethesda used this time, even knowing
chameleon isn't overpowered since you can't enchant anything with it for
the "100% invisible all the time" effect you could in Morrowind.
>[1] I like to play without a companion, beyond my trusty storm atronach
>inna stick - I get to the College of Winterhold as soon as I can and
>make the staff at the atronach forge.
I'm on my second playthrough (as a sneaking archer to begin, now an
undead dagger user mostly) Mage was my first playthrough.
I have never taken a companion with me and given a choice I never will.
I *loathe* the missions where you are forced to have an NPC companion
with you since you can't know what they are going to do, and at least
the NPCs forced on you during missions, will do things that are utterly
stupid, immersion breaking and likely to get you killed.
[Honestly, thieves that break stealth, yell battlecries as loud as
possible and charge into battle like berserkers? This is not thiefly
behavior and loses all the stealth combat bonuses for them AND you.
Yeah Bethesda, try putting a little work into the AI why don't you -
"charge straight at enemy" is so 1993.]
I've also seen some of them _stand_ on trap activators, taking constant
damage - but that's OK because Bethesda made them "vital" and unkillable
too.
There's a mod to fix that too. :) Some "vital" NPCs _NEED_ to die.
I grabbed this because I had an Argonian rogue attacking me every time I
went to Solitude - he'd be after me faster than the guards were and he
was unkillable. Implacably hostile and unkillable is a bad combo and
totally immersion breaking.
His vital status? Because he gives a miscellaneous side quest. WTF is
"vital" about a one mission side quest?
Skyrim: Elder Scrolls with Training Wheels; you can't kill anyone
involved in a quest, drop or sell a quest item, go in certain areas
until a quest allows it, you magically know that this random NPC you've
never seen, talked to or even heard of before is the one who wants quest
item X you picked up in a cave 3 months ago, and of course big arrows
point you exactly at objective of the quest you're doing
Nothing more immersive than a big arrow pointing directly at the lost
treasure of whatsit that hasn't been seen or heard of in over 200 years.
Imagine Lord of the Rings with that effect; Would have been a short
movie since the Ring Wraiths would just follow the Quest Arrow and kill
all the Hobbits in the first act.
Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
>I'm currently attempting to play a mage (at Adept difficulty) using no
>physical armour, and wielding no weapons, not even bound weapons. I've
>had to give up on the lack of armour, as I found the armour spells
>inadequate. I managed up to nearly level 30 without, and only died to
>one boss (several times) - Evil Knevel (Tongue Chieftain Knevel in
>Volunruud). I finaly defeated him after fetching Lydia to help[1], and
>doing a lot of running away. But it got so that wilderness encounters
>were getting too hairy, particularly the tougher bears, and draugr
>deathlords and the like hit very hard, so I've made myself a nice set of
>elven armour.
>I had all three of alteration's mage armour perks, and thanks to the
>legendary skill option I've taken alteration round the clock, so to
>speak, back to 70, freeing up those perk points to put into light
>armour. I then levelled up light armour to 60. It was that, or start a
>new character. I feel a lot more secure now.
>Levelling is much slower as a mage, I find, mostly because some magic
>skills, mostly destruction (inherently slow, it seems) and conjuration
>(one or two conjurations per battle, rather than many hits with a
>weapon) are slow to level up, even with the Mage Stone boost.
destruction up somewhat (once you have lots of mana regen anyway)
There are actually very few things in the game that are immune to
paralyze, so you can paralyze things then kill them slowly with
something like flames for maximum destruction training.
Just watch out for the few things that are immune, it can come as a bit
of a nasty shock.
Use lots of mana and paralyze only lasts a few seconds so you have to
recast it a lot - but things like cave bears become a walk in the park
when they can't attack at all.
The downside is with paralyze on one hand, you can't dual cast whatever
destruction spell you're using.
>Overall, I'm enjoying the character. She's a high elf, and I don't
>think I'd like to try this with any other race, as the 50 bonus to base
>magicka is very helpful, particularly at the start. I've had to learn
>to manage Magicka, and look forward to getting my enchanting up in order
>to make some good magicka regeneration kit. I miss my robes of
>destruction with 75% faster regeneration, now that I'm using armour, and
>also the sneak bonuses that come when using weapons. I'm a naturally
>sneaky player, and usually get a lot of use from a bow, particularly as
>I can often remain undetected after shooting someone, which is not
>usually possible when firing off a spell.
you're going to need multiple items of destruction fortification and
mana regen in order to be able to spam attack spells in the mid to late
game.
The upper tier destruction spells are a complete waste of time - long
cast time, interruptible and the damage is not that great.
I actually ended up using fireball and ice storm the most, with
thunderbolt for single target "must not hit bystanders" situations.
FB and IS are not the hardest hitting, but they are AOE and they have a
knockback/stagger effect which can keep you alive by stopping attacks
from even being made, making them very handy indeed - and the AOE aspect
means you can hit things that are around corners - ice storm even goes
through bars to hit things.
If you're playing unmodded with only 4 armor pieces and the limitations
on what can be enchanted with what you're going to have a hard time and
run low/out of mana a lot unless you put all your points into mana
(which is a death sentence, since you are going to get hit.)
I put most in mana on my first game and regretted it a great deal later
on when I started getting one and two-shotted a lot.
Regen health doesn't help when you get hit twice and die.
>I've only used an illusion spell in battle once. If anyone has tips on
>using these spells, I'd be interested. Having tried them previously, I
>found that too often the enemies I met were over the level limit for the
>spells I have available, and it's not a good idea to be using up magicka
>on a spell which won't work. I think there should at least be a chance
>that a spell would work on the higher level enemies, or some way of
>telling what level your opponent is so that you know if it's worth
>trying.
pretty late.
The good thing is you can fast train illusion since you can cast buff
spells like courage on any random towns person and improve it.
>I was wondering what other's thoughts were on playing a pure (well
>mine's slightly sullied with armour, now) mage.
Clothing mods giving you more wearable items to enchant.
An enchant anything mod to remove the silly limitation on what
enchantment can be put on what item (which is NOT how all the previous
games were, so removing it is fair.)
With these two things you could enchant a full set of 7 gear items
reducing destruction magic costs to 0 (15% reduction is the best you can
get with 100 enchanting.)
A multiple jewelry mod might be worth it as well - I use one that allows
2 rings, but there are others that allow multiple necklaces and 10
rings.
If only they all showed on the character you could be all like "I pity
the Fool who challenges my Magic!"
You either wait until you get 100 enchanting for the 2 spells per item
perk, or grab a mod for that (there's one that puts one at 50% I think
and leaves the existing one at 100% so you could put 4 spells per item -
I haven't used it.)
Destruction/alteration is a good combo to get to low/0 cost if using the
paralyze trick.
Another enchantment is regen health - you really do need several of
these. They seem to appear in Solitude first - often at that snooty
clothing store.
Possibly a magic mod as well to introduce new attack spells and/or
reintroduce old Elder Scrolls spells like Levitate, Water Walking,
Tinur's Hoptoad, Beast of Burden, Chameleon and such.
I use one called Spells of the Third Era for this - nothing overpowered,
mostly just utility spells.
There are some complete magic overhauls available, but I haven't tried
many of those yet (and the most interesting sounding one I'd found on
nexus is defunct - killed by the latest patch.)
Due to the enchanting system Bethesda used this time, even knowing
chameleon isn't overpowered since you can't enchant anything with it for
the "100% invisible all the time" effect you could in Morrowind.
>[1] I like to play without a companion, beyond my trusty storm atronach
>inna stick - I get to the College of Winterhold as soon as I can and
>make the staff at the atronach forge.
undead dagger user mostly) Mage was my first playthrough.
I have never taken a companion with me and given a choice I never will.
I *loathe* the missions where you are forced to have an NPC companion
with you since you can't know what they are going to do, and at least
the NPCs forced on you during missions, will do things that are utterly
stupid, immersion breaking and likely to get you killed.
[Honestly, thieves that break stealth, yell battlecries as loud as
possible and charge into battle like berserkers? This is not thiefly
behavior and loses all the stealth combat bonuses for them AND you.
Yeah Bethesda, try putting a little work into the AI why don't you -
"charge straight at enemy" is so 1993.]
I've also seen some of them _stand_ on trap activators, taking constant
damage - but that's OK because Bethesda made them "vital" and unkillable
too.
There's a mod to fix that too. :) Some "vital" NPCs _NEED_ to die.
I grabbed this because I had an Argonian rogue attacking me every time I
went to Solitude - he'd be after me faster than the guards were and he
was unkillable. Implacably hostile and unkillable is a bad combo and
totally immersion breaking.
His vital status? Because he gives a miscellaneous side quest. WTF is
"vital" about a one mission side quest?
Skyrim: Elder Scrolls with Training Wheels; you can't kill anyone
involved in a quest, drop or sell a quest item, go in certain areas
until a quest allows it, you magically know that this random NPC you've
never seen, talked to or even heard of before is the one who wants quest
item X you picked up in a cave 3 months ago, and of course big arrows
point you exactly at objective of the quest you're doing
Nothing more immersive than a big arrow pointing directly at the lost
treasure of whatsit that hasn't been seen or heard of in over 200 years.
Imagine Lord of the Rings with that effect; Would have been a short
movie since the Ring Wraiths would just follow the Quest Arrow and kill
all the Hobbits in the first act.
Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr
William McNee
May 7, 2013, 11:30:32 AM5/7/13
to
On 07/05/2013 09:41, Peter Ward wrote:
> I've only used an illusion spell in battle once. If anyone has tips on
> using these spells, I'd be interested. Having tried them previously, I
> found that too often the enemies I met were over the level limit for the
> spells I have available, and it's not a good idea to be using up magicka
> on a spell which won't work. I think there should at least be a chance
> that a spell would work on the higher level enemies, or some way of
> telling what level your opponent is so that you know if it's worth
> trying.
I'm currently playing as a Dunmer Assassin, and I use illusion spells
> I've only used an illusion spell in battle once. If anyone has tips on
> using these spells, I'd be interested. Having tried them previously, I
> found that too often the enemies I met were over the level limit for the
> spells I have available, and it's not a good idea to be using up magicka
> on a spell which won't work. I think there should at least be a chance
> that a spell would work on the higher level enemies, or some way of
> telling what level your opponent is so that you know if it's worth
> trying.
like fear and fury. However, as I'm only lvl 12 they don't work on every
enemy, as you have discovered. I think that you can get stronger spells
later on that do work on higher level enemies although I don't know how
high. I've used them on wolves so that they attack each other and it's
worked every time but not on all humans. It's fun when it works to watch
them attacking each other while I hide round the corner...:)
Also use a bit of Conjuration to have dead bodies fighting for me
Thanks for the tip Xocyll. I didn't think of using Illusion spells on
villagers but will try it later...I'll probably try it on Jenassa, my
companion, too...
:)
I did make a mage as my last character, concentrating on Destruction,
Restoration and Conjuration. Also got Enchanting up to 100 so had some
pretty powerful items which reduced casting costs, particularly mana
regen. Having the Archmage robes and a certain priest mask which
regenerated mana at 100% also helped (shame you can't disenchant em
though) so it meant I hardly ever ran out of mana and dual casting
destruction spells staggered enemies so that they couldn't get their
attacks off. Just as well because I was a bit squishy! Really had fun
times with this char.
When they brought out patch 1.9 I decided to create my current Dunmer
assassin and removed all mods apart from the official ones. Also because
I've just read a series of the Drizzt Do'Urden books by R A Salvatore so
wanted to try out a Dark Elf...:)
Might go back and play with Ariel Manx again someday though...;)
--
Words with Friends/Chess with Friends/Naked War username: HaggisHunter
Using an Intel i7 PC with a Zotac GTX580 gfx card, ASUS Xonar D2X
soundcard, 30" Samsung monitor, 6GB of memory and Windows 7 64-bit
3DS friend code 0404 - 5484 - 5096
Peter Ward
May 8, 2013, 4:56:43 AM5/8/13
to
Xocyll says...
Good idea, I'll look for that.
but thought perhaps I'd missed the point of them.
> I actually ended up using fireball and ice storm the most, with
> thunderbolt for single target "must not hit bystanders" situations.
> FB and IS are not the hardest hitting, but they are AOE and they have a
> knockback/stagger effect which can keep you alive by stopping attacks
> from even being made, making them very handy indeed - and the AOE aspect
> means you can hit things that are around corners - ice storm even goes
> through bars to hit things.
What's AOE?
squishy. This is where being a high elf helped, with the extra magicka.
like to get the quiet casting perk so I can use the bound bow while
sneaking. I'm fond of the bound weapons generally, especially before
level 30 when facing strong draugrs, to avoid he unpleasantness caused
by being hit by a disarm shout. It's not just suddenly having no weapon
(which confused me no end first time it happened), it's often difficult
to find it again afterwards. I spent five minutes looking for a staff
only a couple of days ago.
available.
little sense, it seems to me.
> Destruction/alteration is a good combo to get to low/0 cost if using
the
> paralyze trick.
Good point.
time available to make much difference, and prefer to concentrate on
reducing damage.
I'm still looking for a resist magic enchantment. I've spent some time
touring the cities making money by selling crafted potions (a side
effect of improving my alchemy skill), while checking merchants for
anything with resist magic, and found nothing. I have the relevant
alteration perks, and Agent of Mara, so that's 45% resistance, but
sometimes even that's not enough.
An Amulet of Talos would also be nice, but there are none of them around
at the moment, either.
> >[1] I like to play without a companion, beyond my trusty storm
atronach
> >inna stick - I get to the College of Winterhold as soon as I can and
> >make the staff at the atronach forge.
>
> I'm on my second playthrough (as a sneaking archer to begin, now an
> undead dagger user mostly) Mage was my first playthrough.
> I have never taken a companion with me and given a choice I never will.
>
> I *loathe* the missions where you are forced to have an NPC companion
> with you since you can't know what they are going to do, and at least
> the NPCs forced on you during missions, will do things that are utterly
> stupid, immersion breaking and likely to get you killed.
Ain't that the truth. As a sneak, I find companions to be more of a
hindrance than a help.
the enemy while taking a swing, and getting hit themselves. They then
complain about it, as if it's your fault.
you near the end, and usually stands on the poisoned dart trigger while
staring vacantly, totally ignoring the darts flying all around and
through him.
[snip]
--
Peter, from outside the asylum
I'm an alien
email: usenet at peterward dot adsl24 dot co dot uk
Real life is far from ideal.
>
> Just watch out for the few things that are immune, it can come as a bit
> of a nasty shock.
>
> Just watch out for the few things that are immune, it can come as a bit
> of a nasty shock.
>
> As a Pure mage you need to get enchanting up as fast as possible,
since
> you're going to need multiple items of destruction fortification and
> mana regen in order to be able to spam attack spells in the mid to late
> game.
I'm working on that
since
> you're going to need multiple items of destruction fortification and
> mana regen in order to be able to spam attack spells in the mid to late
> game.
>
> The upper tier destruction spells are a complete waste of time - long
> cast time, interruptible and the damage is not that great.
I suspected that they weren't much good from reading their descriptions,
> The upper tier destruction spells are a complete waste of time - long
> cast time, interruptible and the damage is not that great.
but thought perhaps I'd missed the point of them.
> I actually ended up using fireball and ice storm the most, with
> thunderbolt for single target "must not hit bystanders" situations.
> FB and IS are not the hardest hitting, but they are AOE and they have a
> knockback/stagger effect which can keep you alive by stopping attacks
> from even being made, making them very handy indeed - and the AOE aspect
> means you can hit things that are around corners - ice storm even goes
> through bars to hit things.
>
>
> If you're playing unmodded with only 4 armor pieces and the limitations
> on what can be enchanted with what you're going to have a hard time and
> run low/out of mana a lot unless you put all your points into mana
> (which is a death sentence, since you are going to get hit.)
> I put most in mana on my first game and regretted it a great deal
later
> on when I started getting one and two-shotted a lot.
> Regen health doesn't help when you get hit twice and die.
I always try and get more health first, as a fresh character is very
>
> If you're playing unmodded with only 4 armor pieces and the limitations
> on what can be enchanted with what you're going to have a hard time and
> run low/out of mana a lot unless you put all your points into mana
> (which is a death sentence, since you are going to get hit.)
> I put most in mana on my first game and regretted it a great deal
later
> on when I started getting one and two-shotted a lot.
> Regen health doesn't help when you get hit twice and die.
squishy. This is where being a high elf helped, with the extra magicka.
>
> >I've only used an illusion spell in battle once. If anyone has tips on
> >using these spells, I'd be interested. Having tried them previously, I
> >found that too often the enemies I met were over the level limit for the
> >spells I have available, and it's not a good idea to be using up magicka
> >on a spell which won't work. I think there should at least be a chance
> >that a spell would work on the higher level enemies, or some way of
> >telling what level your opponent is so that you know if it's worth
> >trying.
>
> The only illusion spell worth a damn is Invisibility, and you get that
> pretty late.
> The good thing is you can fast train illusion since you can cast buff
> spells like courage on any random towns person and improve it.
I train illusion with the Muffle spell. While not using illusion, I
> >I've only used an illusion spell in battle once. If anyone has tips on
> >using these spells, I'd be interested. Having tried them previously, I
> >found that too often the enemies I met were over the level limit for the
> >spells I have available, and it's not a good idea to be using up magicka
> >on a spell which won't work. I think there should at least be a chance
> >that a spell would work on the higher level enemies, or some way of
> >telling what level your opponent is so that you know if it's worth
> >trying.
>
> The only illusion spell worth a damn is Invisibility, and you get that
> pretty late.
> The good thing is you can fast train illusion since you can cast buff
> spells like courage on any random towns person and improve it.
like to get the quiet casting perk so I can use the bound bow while
sneaking. I'm fond of the bound weapons generally, especially before
level 30 when facing strong draugrs, to avoid he unpleasantness caused
by being hit by a disarm shout. It's not just suddenly having no weapon
(which confused me no end first time it happened), it's often difficult
to find it again afterwards. I spent five minutes looking for a staff
only a couple of days ago.
>
> >I was wondering what other's thoughts were on playing a pure (well
> >mine's slightly sullied with armour, now) mage.
>
> Mods. Mods. Mods.
I probably should have mentioned that I play on an Xbox, so mods aren't
> >I was wondering what other's thoughts were on playing a pure (well
> >mine's slightly sullied with armour, now) mage.
>
> Mods. Mods. Mods.
available.
>
> Clothing mods giving you more wearable items to enchant.
> An enchant anything mod to remove the silly limitation on what
> enchantment can be put on what item (which is NOT how all the previous
> games were, so removing it is fair.)
This is a very annoying aspect of enchanting in this game, and makes
> Clothing mods giving you more wearable items to enchant.
> An enchant anything mod to remove the silly limitation on what
> enchantment can be put on what item (which is NOT how all the previous
> games were, so removing it is fair.)
little sense, it seems to me.
> Destruction/alteration is a good combo to get to low/0 cost if using
the
> paralyze trick.
>
> Another enchantment is regen health - you really do need several of
> these. They seem to appear in Solitude first - often at that snooty
> clothing store.
I tend to ignore health regeneration, there never seems to be enough
> Another enchantment is regen health - you really do need several of
> these. They seem to appear in Solitude first - often at that snooty
> clothing store.
time available to make much difference, and prefer to concentrate on
reducing damage.
I'm still looking for a resist magic enchantment. I've spent some time
touring the cities making money by selling crafted potions (a side
effect of improving my alchemy skill), while checking merchants for
anything with resist magic, and found nothing. I have the relevant
alteration perks, and Agent of Mara, so that's 45% resistance, but
sometimes even that's not enough.
An Amulet of Talos would also be nice, but there are none of them around
at the moment, either.
> >[1] I like to play without a companion, beyond my trusty storm
atronach
> >inna stick - I get to the College of Winterhold as soon as I can and
> >make the staff at the atronach forge.
>
> I'm on my second playthrough (as a sneaking archer to begin, now an
> undead dagger user mostly) Mage was my first playthrough.
> I have never taken a companion with me and given a choice I never will.
>
> I *loathe* the missions where you are forced to have an NPC companion
> with you since you can't know what they are going to do, and at least
> the NPCs forced on you during missions, will do things that are utterly
> stupid, immersion breaking and likely to get you killed.
hindrance than a help.
>
> [Honestly, thieves that break stealth, yell battlecries as loud as
> possible and charge into battle like berserkers? This is not thiefly
> behavior and loses all the stealth combat bonuses for them AND you.
> Yeah Bethesda, try putting a little work into the AI why don't you -
> "charge straight at enemy" is so 1993.]
It's not only that, they get in the way, often charging between you and
> [Honestly, thieves that break stealth, yell battlecries as loud as
> possible and charge into battle like berserkers? This is not thiefly
> behavior and loses all the stealth combat bonuses for them AND you.
> Yeah Bethesda, try putting a little work into the AI why don't you -
> "charge straight at enemy" is so 1993.]
the enemy while taking a swing, and getting hit themselves. They then
complain about it, as if it's your fault.
>
> I've also seen some of them _stand_ on trap activators, taking constant
> damage - but that's OK because Bethesda made them "vital" and unkillable
> too.
Tolfdir is particularly annoying during "Under Saarthal" when he rejoins
> I've also seen some of them _stand_ on trap activators, taking constant
> damage - but that's OK because Bethesda made them "vital" and unkillable
> too.
you near the end, and usually stands on the poisoned dart trigger while
staring vacantly, totally ignoring the darts flying all around and
through him.
[snip]
> Nothing more immersive than a big arrow pointing directly at the lost
> treasure of whatsit that hasn't been seen or heard of in over 200 years.
>
> Imagine Lord of the Rings with that effect; Would have been a short
> movie since the Ring Wraiths would just follow the Quest Arrow and kill
> all the Hobbits in the first act.
[!]
> treasure of whatsit that hasn't been seen or heard of in over 200 years.
>
> Imagine Lord of the Rings with that effect; Would have been a short
> movie since the Ring Wraiths would just follow the Quest Arrow and kill
> all the Hobbits in the first act.
--
Peter, from outside the asylum
I'm an alien
email: usenet at peterward dot adsl24 dot co dot uk
Peter Ward
May 8, 2013, 5:01:04 AM5/8/13
to
William McNee says...
for me. I have used fury on occasion, and you're right, it is fun to
sit back and watch the results.
> Also use a bit of Conjuration to have dead bodies fighting for me
> Thanks for the tip Xocyll. I didn't think of using Illusion spells on
> villagers but will try it later...I'll probably try it on Jenassa, my
> companion, too...
> :)
As I mentioned in my response to Xocyll, I find that muffle is a good
training spell for illusion.
>
[snip]
--
Peter, from outside the asylum
I'm an alien
email: usenet at peterward dot adsl24 dot co dot uk
I think I'm going to need some grant money and beautiful lab assistants.
- Glenn D.
>
> On 07/05/2013 09:41, Peter Ward wrote:
> > I've only used an illusion spell in battle once. If anyone has tips on
> > using these spells, I'd be interested. Having tried them previously, I
> > found that too often the enemies I met were over the level limit for the
> > spells I have available, and it's not a good idea to be using up magicka
> > on a spell which won't work. I think there should at least be a chance
> > that a spell would work on the higher level enemies, or some way of
> > telling what level your opponent is so that you know if it's worth
> > trying.
>
> I'm currently playing as a Dunmer Assassin, and I use illusion spells
> like fear and fury. However, as I'm only lvl 12 they don't work on every
> enemy, as you have discovered. I think that you can get stronger spells
> later on that do work on higher level enemies although I don't know how
> high. I've used them on wolves so that they attack each other and it's
> worked every time but not on all humans. It's fun when it works to watch
> them attacking each other while I hide round the corner...:)
It's the not knowing if it will work which is the big stumbling block
> On 07/05/2013 09:41, Peter Ward wrote:
> > I've only used an illusion spell in battle once. If anyone has tips on
> > using these spells, I'd be interested. Having tried them previously, I
> > found that too often the enemies I met were over the level limit for the
> > spells I have available, and it's not a good idea to be using up magicka
> > on a spell which won't work. I think there should at least be a chance
> > that a spell would work on the higher level enemies, or some way of
> > telling what level your opponent is so that you know if it's worth
> > trying.
>
> I'm currently playing as a Dunmer Assassin, and I use illusion spells
> like fear and fury. However, as I'm only lvl 12 they don't work on every
> enemy, as you have discovered. I think that you can get stronger spells
> later on that do work on higher level enemies although I don't know how
> high. I've used them on wolves so that they attack each other and it's
> worked every time but not on all humans. It's fun when it works to watch
> them attacking each other while I hide round the corner...:)
for me. I have used fury on occasion, and you're right, it is fun to
sit back and watch the results.
> Also use a bit of Conjuration to have dead bodies fighting for me
> Thanks for the tip Xocyll. I didn't think of using Illusion spells on
> villagers but will try it later...I'll probably try it on Jenassa, my
> companion, too...
> :)
training spell for illusion.
>
[snip]
--
Peter, from outside the asylum
I'm an alien
email: usenet at peterward dot adsl24 dot co dot uk
- Glenn D.
Xocyll
May 8, 2013, 9:40:24 AM5/8/13
to
William McNee <wul...@hame.the.noo.invalid> looked up from reading the
30.
I just loaded my game and Hysteria (a master level fear spell) caps at
level 32. According to the wiki the master level one are listed as
level 25 capped - Since I'm a vampire I get a bonus to Illusion of 25%
so that might be why mine hits up to 32.
Since I'm currently level 66, they're pretty much of zero utility with
the level scaling of enemies Bethesda has grown so enamored of.
I think they might work on random townies, but not guards or dungeon
enemies. I guess they might work on animals, but I just kill the ones
that attack me. Getting the guard to screw off and/or fight amongst
themselves would be a benefit since I have a bounty on my head and
there's no lore friendly, roleplay friendly reason in the universe why a
vampire would surrender themselves to be tossed into prison, starved and
possibly staked out in the sun, so surrender is not an option.
>Also use a bit of Conjuration to have dead bodies fighting for me
>Thanks for the tip Xocyll. I didn't think of using Illusion spells on
>villagers but will try it later...I'll probably try it on Jenassa, my
>companion, too...
>:)
It's handy, since it's a buff spell it counts on every shot and can be
cast on anyone, shopkeepers, trainers, random townies and I guess
companions.
Unlike calm, fury it does not seem to be level limited so it works on
any friendly without exception.
>I did make a mage as my last character, concentrating on Destruction,
>Restoration and Conjuration. Also got Enchanting up to 100 so had some
>pretty powerful items which reduced casting costs, particularly mana
>regen. Having the Archmage robes and a certain priest mask which
>regenerated mana at 100% also helped (shame you can't disenchant em
>though)
Pretty sure there's a mod that allows that.
I know there's one that lets you clone those masks into rings.
I downloaded it but never got around to installing it.
>so it meant I hardly ever ran out of mana and dual casting
>destruction spells staggered enemies so that they couldn't get their
>attacks off. Just as well because I was a bit squishy! Really had fun
>times with this char.
Heh thanks to the disenchant arch-mage robes mod, and 7 items enchanted
with Skein of Magnus, I have 0 cost casting for all schools. (And
incidentally effect descriptions on my items in such small text as to be
unreadable since it doesn't say 15% reduction all schools, but 15% for
each of the 5 schools separately.)
Of course this char was an archer and mostly just pokes things with a
dagger now, but free casting did make training up restoration a bit
easier.
It one of the changes I don't like in Skyrim - merely casting the spell
won't get you better at the school as it did in past games, it had to
actually have an effect, so healing while at full health does absolutely
nothing.
As a Vampire though I just went out in the sun, took off my health regen
items and used healing to stay alive - wedging the mouse under the edge
of the alt computer, keeping the buttons depressed.
I think in my next game, assuming I do another playthrough, restoration
is going to be the one I pay to have trained, since all the others are
SOOOOOOO much easier to increase.
>When they brought out patch 1.9 I decided to create my current Dunmer
>assassin and removed all mods apart from the official ones. Also because
I could not do that since the game feels like Bethesda did as little as
possible before pushing it out the door - you need mods to bring it up
to standard. Even then there aren't mods for everything Bethesda left
broken - like the scripts, dialog and NPC actions.
Guard AI is one of those things - if you're a criminal they will do
their in the name of the Jarl surrender speech.
Even if you're sneaking, muffled and invisible - they just magically
know you're there since Bethesda just did a script that activated when
you get in a certain range of them.
I also have a boots of speed mod, and combined with the boost vampires
get I can really boogie.
I've come to a screeching halt from a 60+ MPH full on sprint because a
guard wants to arrest me. Right, he identified this invisible person
moving at a high rate of speed at night as a criminal and went for the
arrest. This despite the fact there are no see invisible spells/items
in the game that could let him do that.
Worse yet is I've zipped past one, heard him start his speech and then
had him do his arrest routine (with the conversation options) MILES
LATER - yep he tracks on you like you're wearing a beacon, despite being
unable to actually detect you. Once the script starts, he follows you
until he gets a chance to finish it, even when it's an in-game-reality
impossibility for him to track you or detect you in the first place.
Talk about an immersion breaker.
I constantly hear the Guard Battlecry "Where are you?" after I decline
to be arrested, because they can't detect me at all - so why did the
arrest script trigger? because Bethesda cheaped out and did the
absolute minimum possible and did absolutely NO conditional checks.
It's like they wrote all the scripts and all the dialog and all the AI
behavior as though the player would be a non-sneaking Warrior type and
never considered sneaky types at all.
Certainly they seem to have a hate on for mages this time around what
with the severely diminished range of spells, no spell maker and useless
illusion / upper level destruction spells.
>I've just read a series of the Drizzt Do'Urden books by R A Salvatore so
>wanted to try out a Dark Elf...:)
>Might go back and play with Ariel Manx again someday though...;)
Oh no, another Drizzle clone.
Gonna go mug those guys on the Dainty Sload for their Scimitars?
entrails of the porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs
say:
say:
>On 07/05/2013 09:41, Peter Ward wrote:
>> I've only used an illusion spell in battle once. If anyone has tips on
>> using these spells, I'd be interested. Having tried them previously, I
>> found that too often the enemies I met were over the level limit for the
>> spells I have available, and it's not a good idea to be using up magicka
>> on a spell which won't work. I think there should at least be a chance
>> that a spell would work on the higher level enemies, or some way of
>> telling what level your opponent is so that you know if it's worth
>> trying.
>
>I'm currently playing as a Dunmer Assassin, and I use illusion spells
>like fear and fury. However, as I'm only lvl 12 they don't work on every
>enemy, as you have discovered. I think that you can get stronger spells
>later on that do work on higher level enemies although I don't know how
>high. I've used them on wolves so that they attack each other and it's
>worked every time but not on all humans. It's fun when it works to watch
>them attacking each other while I hide round the corner...:)
You can get higher level spells, but I think they cap out around level
>> I've only used an illusion spell in battle once. If anyone has tips on
>> using these spells, I'd be interested. Having tried them previously, I
>> found that too often the enemies I met were over the level limit for the
>> spells I have available, and it's not a good idea to be using up magicka
>> on a spell which won't work. I think there should at least be a chance
>> that a spell would work on the higher level enemies, or some way of
>> telling what level your opponent is so that you know if it's worth
>> trying.
>
>I'm currently playing as a Dunmer Assassin, and I use illusion spells
>like fear and fury. However, as I'm only lvl 12 they don't work on every
>enemy, as you have discovered. I think that you can get stronger spells
>later on that do work on higher level enemies although I don't know how
>high. I've used them on wolves so that they attack each other and it's
>worked every time but not on all humans. It's fun when it works to watch
>them attacking each other while I hide round the corner...:)
30.
I just loaded my game and Hysteria (a master level fear spell) caps at
level 32. According to the wiki the master level one are listed as
level 25 capped - Since I'm a vampire I get a bonus to Illusion of 25%
so that might be why mine hits up to 32.
Since I'm currently level 66, they're pretty much of zero utility with
the level scaling of enemies Bethesda has grown so enamored of.
I think they might work on random townies, but not guards or dungeon
enemies. I guess they might work on animals, but I just kill the ones
that attack me. Getting the guard to screw off and/or fight amongst
themselves would be a benefit since I have a bounty on my head and
there's no lore friendly, roleplay friendly reason in the universe why a
vampire would surrender themselves to be tossed into prison, starved and
possibly staked out in the sun, so surrender is not an option.
>Also use a bit of Conjuration to have dead bodies fighting for me
>Thanks for the tip Xocyll. I didn't think of using Illusion spells on
>villagers but will try it later...I'll probably try it on Jenassa, my
>companion, too...
>:)
cast on anyone, shopkeepers, trainers, random townies and I guess
companions.
Unlike calm, fury it does not seem to be level limited so it works on
any friendly without exception.
>I did make a mage as my last character, concentrating on Destruction,
>Restoration and Conjuration. Also got Enchanting up to 100 so had some
>pretty powerful items which reduced casting costs, particularly mana
>regen. Having the Archmage robes and a certain priest mask which
>regenerated mana at 100% also helped (shame you can't disenchant em
>though)
I know there's one that lets you clone those masks into rings.
I downloaded it but never got around to installing it.
>so it meant I hardly ever ran out of mana and dual casting
>destruction spells staggered enemies so that they couldn't get their
>attacks off. Just as well because I was a bit squishy! Really had fun
>times with this char.
with Skein of Magnus, I have 0 cost casting for all schools. (And
incidentally effect descriptions on my items in such small text as to be
unreadable since it doesn't say 15% reduction all schools, but 15% for
each of the 5 schools separately.)
Of course this char was an archer and mostly just pokes things with a
dagger now, but free casting did make training up restoration a bit
easier.
It one of the changes I don't like in Skyrim - merely casting the spell
won't get you better at the school as it did in past games, it had to
actually have an effect, so healing while at full health does absolutely
nothing.
As a Vampire though I just went out in the sun, took off my health regen
items and used healing to stay alive - wedging the mouse under the edge
of the alt computer, keeping the buttons depressed.
I think in my next game, assuming I do another playthrough, restoration
is going to be the one I pay to have trained, since all the others are
SOOOOOOO much easier to increase.
>When they brought out patch 1.9 I decided to create my current Dunmer
>assassin and removed all mods apart from the official ones. Also because
possible before pushing it out the door - you need mods to bring it up
to standard. Even then there aren't mods for everything Bethesda left
broken - like the scripts, dialog and NPC actions.
Guard AI is one of those things - if you're a criminal they will do
their in the name of the Jarl surrender speech.
Even if you're sneaking, muffled and invisible - they just magically
know you're there since Bethesda just did a script that activated when
you get in a certain range of them.
I also have a boots of speed mod, and combined with the boost vampires
get I can really boogie.
I've come to a screeching halt from a 60+ MPH full on sprint because a
guard wants to arrest me. Right, he identified this invisible person
moving at a high rate of speed at night as a criminal and went for the
arrest. This despite the fact there are no see invisible spells/items
in the game that could let him do that.
Worse yet is I've zipped past one, heard him start his speech and then
had him do his arrest routine (with the conversation options) MILES
LATER - yep he tracks on you like you're wearing a beacon, despite being
unable to actually detect you. Once the script starts, he follows you
until he gets a chance to finish it, even when it's an in-game-reality
impossibility for him to track you or detect you in the first place.
Talk about an immersion breaker.
I constantly hear the Guard Battlecry "Where are you?" after I decline
to be arrested, because they can't detect me at all - so why did the
arrest script trigger? because Bethesda cheaped out and did the
absolute minimum possible and did absolutely NO conditional checks.
It's like they wrote all the scripts and all the dialog and all the AI
behavior as though the player would be a non-sneaking Warrior type and
never considered sneaky types at all.
Certainly they seem to have a hate on for mages this time around what
with the severely diminished range of spells, no spell maker and useless
illusion / upper level destruction spells.
>I've just read a series of the Drizzt Do'Urden books by R A Salvatore so
>wanted to try out a Dark Elf...:)
>Might go back and play with Ariel Manx again someday though...;)
Gonna go mug those guys on the Dainty Sload for their Scimitars?
Xocyll
May 8, 2013, 11:37:25 AM5/8/13
to
college.
>> Just watch out for the few things that are immune, it can come as a bit
>> of a nasty shock.
>>
>> As a Pure mage you need to get enchanting up as fast as possible,
>since
>> you're going to need multiple items of destruction fortification and
>> mana regen in order to be able to spam attack spells in the mid to late
>> game.
>
>I'm working on that
You learn the enchantment spell banish.
Craft iron daggers (working up smithing)
Enchant daggers with banish (working up enchanting)
Sell daggers (working up speechcraft and making LOTS of money)
Doesn't matter that you used a petty soul gem and the daedra they could
banish are very, very low level, they're still worth a shitload of cash.
I didn't discover this, but used it to good effect with this character.
>> The upper tier destruction spells are a complete waste of time - long
>> cast time, interruptible and the damage is not that great.
>
>I suspected that they weren't much good from reading their descriptions,
>but thought perhaps I'd missed the point of them.
absurdly low levels of damage for the cost and time to use them that
they are useless.
Maybe if there was an AOE paralyze spell to lock down a group of baddies
surrounding you then you could use firestorm to lightly scorch them all
at once.
If they had zero cast time they _might_ be of some utility, since
anything hitting you interrupts you and forces you to start the cast
again.
>> I actually ended up using fireball and ice storm the most, with
>> thunderbolt for single target "must not hit bystanders" situations.
>> FB and IS are not the hardest hitting, but they are AOE and they have a
>> knockback/stagger effect which can keep you alive by stopping attacks
>> from even being made, making them very handy indeed - and the AOE aspect
>> means you can hit things that are around corners - ice storm even goes
>> through bars to hit things.
>
>What's AOE?
IE a firebolt hits the target and just the target, miss and he takes no
damage.
Fireball on the other hand hits the target and explodes, not only
hitting him but everything else within a 15 foot radius.
Miss him and hit the wall 5 feet to the side of him and he still takes
the damage from the explosion.
Got someone behind a wall you can't target, but who is within 15 feet of
the edge of the wall - you just shoot the floor as close to him as you
can see and kill him anyway.
>> If you're playing unmodded with only 4 armor pieces and the limitations
>> on what can be enchanted with what you're going to have a hard time and
>> run low/out of mana a lot unless you put all your points into mana
>> (which is a death sentence, since you are going to get hit.)
>
>> I put most in mana on my first game and regretted it a great deal
>later
>> on when I started getting one and two-shotted a lot.
>> Regen health doesn't help when you get hit twice and die.
>
>I always try and get more health first, as a fresh character is very
>squishy. This is where being a high elf helped, with the extra magicka.
I wasn't planning on getting hit, but unleashing devastating magic
attacks on them before they knew I was there.
That doesn't work so well in Skyrim since the destruction spells are
somewhat under whelming and the AI can detect you even when they
shouldn't be able to.
>> >I've only used an illusion spell in battle once. If anyone has tips on
>> >using these spells, I'd be interested. Having tried them previously, I
>> >found that too often the enemies I met were over the level limit for the
>> >spells I have available, and it's not a good idea to be using up magicka
>> >on a spell which won't work. I think there should at least be a chance
>> >that a spell would work on the higher level enemies, or some way of
>> >telling what level your opponent is so that you know if it's worth
>> >trying.
>>
>> The only illusion spell worth a damn is Invisibility, and you get that
>> pretty late.
>> The good thing is you can fast train illusion since you can cast buff
>> spells like courage on any random towns person and improve it.
>
>I train illusion with the Muffle spell. While not using illusion, I
>like to get the quiet casting perk so I can use the bound bow while
>sneaking. I'm fond of the bound weapons generally, especially before
>level 30 when facing strong draugrs, to avoid he unpleasantness caused
>by being hit by a disarm shout. It's not just suddenly having no weapon
>(which confused me no end first time it happened), it's often difficult
>to find it again afterwards. I spent five minutes looking for a staff
>only a couple of days ago.
1. Since it affect you, you have to wait a second or two before you can
recast it or it will have no effect (same problem as healing yourself
when not hurt - you get no training benefit.)
2. It costs a hell of a lot more to cast (Checking my game with no gear
on, Courage costs 14 mana, muffle 104)
>> >I was wondering what other's thoughts were on playing a pure (well
>> >mine's slightly sullied with armour, now) mage.
>>
>> Mods. Mods. Mods.
>
>I probably should have mentioned that I play on an Xbox, so mods aren't
>available.
I found this pic a little while back while searching for a mod, you
might get a snicker from it, or not.
http://media.photobucket.com/user/Genzou_Fotos/media/PC_Gaming_Master_Race.jpg.html?filters[term]=dirty%20console%20gaming&filters[primary]=images
>> Clothing mods giving you more wearable items to enchant.
>> An enchant anything mod to remove the silly limitation on what
>> enchantment can be put on what item (which is NOT how all the previous
>> games were, so removing it is fair.)
>
>This is a very annoying aspect of enchanting in this game, and makes
>little sense, it seems to me.
in the last 3 games or the series. In fact it's a completely different
enchanting system in every way - all previous games with custom
enchanting you could have any spell you knew enchanted onto any item
(with one exception - attack spells could only go on weapons) AND you
could pay to have items enchanted for you at the mage's guild or other
enchanter types (some temples did enchanting too in Daggerfall.)
I can only assume this system was implemented to A) limit what the
player could do with enchantments and thus keep the player weak and B)
make it easy to use with a console controller - lord knows the whole
UI/control system was geared for controllers.
>> Destruction/alteration is a good combo to get to low/0 cost if using
>the
>> paralyze trick.
>
>Good point.
unless you choose to have no other effects.
With only 6 items by default (armor pieces, necklace, rings) you could
enchant both destruction and alteration down to 10% cast cost, and that
would be at the cost of any kind of resistances or regens.
>> Another enchantment is regen health - you really do need several of
>> these. They seem to appear in Solitude first - often at that snooty
>> clothing store.
>
>I tend to ignore health regeneration, there never seems to be enough
>time available to make much difference, and prefer to concentrate on
>reducing damage.
isn't nearly as big a deal, since the health-damage-over-time is being
counteracted by the healing-over-time regen.
I'm not sure but it might also keep you from drowning.
>I'm still looking for a resist magic enchantment. I've spent some time
>touring the cities making money by selling crafted potions (a side
>effect of improving my alchemy skill), while checking merchants for
>anything with resist magic, and found nothing. I have the relevant
>alteration perks, and Agent of Mara, so that's 45% resistance, but
>sometimes even that's not enough.
first - many levels before they start appearing for sale in other
cities.
>An Amulet of Talos would also be nice, but there are none of them around
>at the moment, either.
>> >[1] I like to play without a companion, beyond my trusty storm
>atronach
>> >inna stick - I get to the College of Winterhold as soon as I can and
>> >make the staff at the atronach forge.
>>
>> I'm on my second playthrough (as a sneaking archer to begin, now an
>> undead dagger user mostly) Mage was my first playthrough.
>> I have never taken a companion with me and given a choice I never will.
>>
>> I *loathe* the missions where you are forced to have an NPC companion
>> with you since you can't know what they are going to do, and at least
>> the NPCs forced on you during missions, will do things that are utterly
>> stupid, immersion breaking and likely to get you killed.
>
>Ain't that the truth. As a sneak, I find companions to be more of a
>hindrance than a help.
scripting a sneaky type - they sneak until combat begins then turn into
a stupid berserker. Usually a rather ineffective berserker at that.
It's really bad when the people doing this are high level thieves guild
types.
When Mercer and I went after Karliah (thieves guild story arc), I'd see
some draugr, pull my bow out, shoot and kill one with my first shot,
target the next whereupon the head of the thieves guild, on a mission to
hunt down Karliah and sneaking up on her through a dungeon filled with
sleeping draugr, draws his sword, yells at the top of his lungs and
charges in blowing my stealth and getting between me and the target.
Worse yet, his battlecries are not only stupid, they're literally
nonsense; "You can't hide from me!" he bellows as he runs in against
draugr, an enemy type that never, ever, ever hides.
Having that mission complete with me getting poisoned (a scripted event)
didn't help, since I was a vampire and thus IMMUNE to poison.
But Bethesda never considered anything like that - nope you couldn't
possibly be immune or resistant or anything, nor could she not be able
to target you because you were invisible or something (which I was.)
The script knows all, the script ignores little things like continuity
and logic and game lore. All hail the mighty script!
If only the script writer had more talent than a Harlequin Romance
writer.
>> [Honestly, thieves that break stealth, yell battlecries as loud as
>> possible and charge into battle like berserkers? This is not thiefly
>> behavior and loses all the stealth combat bonuses for them AND you.
>> Yeah Bethesda, try putting a little work into the AI why don't you -
>> "charge straight at enemy" is so 1993.]
>
>It's not only that, they get in the way, often charging between you and
>the enemy while taking a swing, and getting hit themselves. They then
>complain about it, as if it's your fault.
companions along with me.
Their leader died for no reason I could see, and one went MIA, but the
other 3 would not go away, not even when I cheated and no-clipped
through a door - they magically caught up to me later at a level
transition.
I even used the console to lock a door behind me such that it would
require a key to open, but the last remaining companion still caught up
to me.
Then I talked to him and he muttered some inane dialog like "I haven't
killed enough people today, keep bothering me and you'll make the list."
At that point I killed him.
A little while later at another level transition, 3 companion corpses
appeared with me. Now there's an immersion breaker.
Then the mod forced another companion on me, this time an impervious one
I could not kill. It was a cute thing in a way, this mage possessing
the mind of a Falmer, but it also meant he was alerting all the Falmer
to my presence since he wasn't sneaking but they wouldn't target him
most of the time - instead going after sneaking, muffled, invisible me
like I was belting out show tunes the whole time.
>> I've also seen some of them _stand_ on trap activators, taking constant
>> damage - but that's OK because Bethesda made them "vital" and unkillable
>> too.
>
>Tolfdir is particularly annoying during "Under Saarthal" when he rejoins
>you near the end, and usually stands on the poisoned dart trigger while
>staring vacantly, totally ignoring the darts flying all around and
>through him.
with you routinely. He's not the last though. :(
>[snip]
>> Nothing more immersive than a big arrow pointing directly at the lost
>> treasure of whatsit that hasn't been seen or heard of in over 200 years.
>>
>> Imagine Lord of the Rings with that effect; Would have been a short
>> movie since the Ring Wraiths would just follow the Quest Arrow and kill
>> all the Hobbits in the first act.
>
>[!]
seem really, really stupid, doesn't it?
It also reduces the need to actually explore.
Oh look, huge dungeon, and I've reached an intersection with 7 passages,
which one will I choose?
Oh I'll take #4 because the arrow is over that way. Now maybe it'll
dead end and I'll have to take one of the others, but at least half the
time it will be the right choice and what was the point of the other 6
passages you'll never have to explore?
I miss the Huge sprawling dungeons of Daggerfall, where you could
actually get lost despite having a 3D map and sometimes spend hours in a
single dungeon hunting down the quest objective and/or last critter
(kill all missions.)
Those dungeons were all one continuous piece - no sub levels, no level
transitions except entering and leaving.
Skyrim is real pretty, I'll give it that.
But it's the stereotypical dumb blonde - all looks, no substance.
I feel quite sorry for you since you're on a console and can't use mods
to add that missing substance that used to come with an Elder Scrolls
game.
I'm guessing consoles don't have access to the in-game console since you
have no real way to type commands, but, on the off chance you do, you
can edit the shout delay with
player.setav shoutrecoverymult 0
The 0 means no delay and you could shout constantly.
Fiddle with it a bit to find a reasonable balance you can live with if
that's too much.
I find that even though I can shout constantly with that I almost never
actually use shouts - I have the action key set to my Vampire
Invisibility power instead. Flitting in and out of the shadows
attacking at will with my dagger is quite reminiscent of playing Aliens
vs Predator as the Predator and doing claw attacks.
On the off chance you ever play on a PC and choose to do the Vampire
thing, I highly recommend the Vampiric Thirst mod, although it does make
the game harder since it has real disadvantages - sunlight can kill you
and fast travel in the daytime is a death sentence due to Bethesda's
halfassed way of applying Damage-Over-Time effects when combined with
fast travel.
You arrive at the destination and then it calculates how much damage you
would have taken over the time it took to travel and applies the whole
amount all at once. Completely ignoring regen items that restored more
health per second than you were losing. So you can walk in complete
safety, but fast travel will always kill you unless it's raining or
snowing or otherwise not sunny.
This does have the side "benefit" of you learning more about the
landscape since you run between cities far more. I had no Idea
Labyrinthian was so easily accessible from Whiterun - I'd always come
from the other side until I was running to Solitude one day.
That mod also lets you age and level up as a vampire, gaining various
powers like blood sight and the aforementioned invisibility power
(unlike the vanilla vampire it's use anytime, not once a day, but using
it drains your blood reserve faster making you hungry and EVERYONE hates
a hungry vampire.)
Peter Ward
May 10, 2013, 7:52:54 AM5/10/13
to
Xocyll says...
>
> Peter Ward <ad...@127.0.0.1> looked up from reading the entrails of the
> porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
> >Xocyll says...
> >>
> >> Peter Ward <ad...@127.0.0.1> looked up from reading the entrails of the
> >> porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
[lots of snipping]
>
> Peter Ward <ad...@127.0.0.1> looked up from reading the entrails of the
> porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
> >Xocyll says...
> >>
> >> Peter Ward <ad...@127.0.0.1> looked up from reading the entrails of the
> >> porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
> >I train illusion with the Muffle spell. While not using illusion, I
> >like to get the quiet casting perk so I can use the bound bow while
> >sneaking. I'm fond of the bound weapons generally, especially before
> >level 30 when facing strong draugrs, to avoid he unpleasantness caused
> >by being hit by a disarm shout. It's not just suddenly having no weapon
> >(which confused me no end first time it happened), it's often difficult
> >to find it again afterwards. I spent five minutes looking for a staff
> >only a couple of days ago.
>
> I tried muffle but found a couple of problems with it.
> 1. Since it affect you, you have to wait a second or two before you can
> recast it or it will have no effect (same problem as healing yourself
> when not hurt - you get no training benefit.)
> 2. It costs a hell of a lot more to cast (Checking my game with no gear
> on, Courage costs 14 mana, muffle 104)
magicka. And at low levels I seem to recall it raises skill by more
then one point at a time - I cast it whenever I have a moment and it
keeps the skill ticking over. Nevertheless, I tried using the courage
spell yesterday, and that doesn't do too badly. Good idea.
>
> >> >I was wondering what other's thoughts were on playing a pure (well
> >> >mine's slightly sullied with armour, now) mage.
> >>
> >> Mods. Mods. Mods.
> >
> >I probably should have mentioned that I play on an Xbox, so mods aren't
> >available.
>
> Oh that's a shame.
>
>
> >> Clothing mods giving you more wearable items to enchant.
> >> An enchant anything mod to remove the silly limitation on what
> >> enchantment can be put on what item (which is NOT how all the previous
> >> games were, so removing it is fair.)
> >
> >This is a very annoying aspect of enchanting in this game, and makes
> >little sense, it seems to me.
>
> It makes no sense at all and runs completely contrary to how it was done
> in the last 3 games or the series. In fact it's a completely different
> enchanting system in every way - all previous games with custom
> enchanting you could have any spell you knew enchanted onto any item
> (with one exception - attack spells could only go on weapons) AND you
> could pay to have items enchanted for you at the mage's guild or other
> enchanter types (some temples did enchanting too in Daggerfall.)
>
> I can only assume this system was implemented to A) limit what the
> player could do with enchantments and thus keep the player weak and B)
> make it easy to use with a console controller - lord knows the whole
> UI/control system was geared for controllers.
Oblivion controls on the Xbox are more user-friendly than Skyrim's, I
> >> An enchant anything mod to remove the silly limitation on what
> >> enchantment can be put on what item (which is NOT how all the previous
> >> games were, so removing it is fair.)
> >
> >This is a very annoying aspect of enchanting in this game, and makes
> >little sense, it seems to me.
>
> It makes no sense at all and runs completely contrary to how it was done
> in the last 3 games or the series. In fact it's a completely different
> enchanting system in every way - all previous games with custom
> enchanting you could have any spell you knew enchanted onto any item
> (with one exception - attack spells could only go on weapons) AND you
> could pay to have items enchanted for you at the mage's guild or other
> enchanter types (some temples did enchanting too in Daggerfall.)
>
> I can only assume this system was implemented to A) limit what the
> player could do with enchantments and thus keep the player weak and B)
> make it easy to use with a console controller - lord knows the whole
> UI/control system was geared for controllers.
reckon.
> I'm guessing consoles don't have access to the in-game console since
you
> have no real way to type commands, but, on the off chance you do, you
> can edit the shout delay with
> player.setav shoutrecoverymult 0
> The 0 means no delay and you could shout constantly.
> Fiddle with it a bit to find a reasonable balance you can live with if
> that's too much.
>
> I find that even though I can shout constantly with that I almost never
> actually use shouts - I have the action key set to my Vampire
> Invisibility power instead. Flitting in and out of the shadows
> attacking at will with my dagger is quite reminiscent of playing Aliens
> vs Predator as the Predator and doing claw attacks.
I use Aura Whisper a lot to keep track of upcoming enemies, and I can
> I find that even though I can shout constantly with that I almost never
> actually use shouts - I have the action key set to my Vampire
> Invisibility power instead. Flitting in and out of the shadows
> attacking at will with my dagger is quite reminiscent of playing Aliens
> vs Predator as the Predator and doing claw attacks.
have a lot of fun with Throw Voice! Dragonrend is useful as well, of
course. I sometimes use Ice Form to temporarily disable the enemy while
taking a breather. I like Marked for Death, or just the first word of
Unrelenting Force to stagger the enemy. But with the timer you have to
make up your mind which one to use in battle, you usually only get one
chance. The rest I don't really have a use for because of the downtime.
--
Peter, from outside the asylum
I'm an alien
email: usenet at peterward dot adsl24 dot co dot uk
amusement is Snakes and Ladders with greased rungs
- Terry Pratchett
Xocyll
May 10, 2013, 2:09:32 PM5/10/13
to
cheaper spell can be cast far more often early in the game.
Or later for that matter if you're actively training illusion rather
than just using a spell occasionally.
Since courage is a targeted friendlies spell you can rapid fire it at
multiple targets in an inn or the mage guild or on the street with no
real downtime, whereas even if you could rapid cast muffle, most of them
would do nothing since the spell duration hadn't come down enough to
make the recast really affect you.
>> I'm guessing consoles don't have access to the in-game console since
>you
>> have no real way to type commands, but, on the off chance you do, you
>> can edit the shout delay with
>> player.setav shoutrecoverymult 0
>> The 0 means no delay and you could shout constantly.
>> Fiddle with it a bit to find a reasonable balance you can live with if
>> that's too much.
>
>No, can't do that.
>> I find that even though I can shout constantly with that I almost never
>> actually use shouts - I have the action key set to my Vampire
>> Invisibility power instead. Flitting in and out of the shadows
>> attacking at will with my dagger is quite reminiscent of playing Aliens
>> vs Predator as the Predator and doing claw attacks.
>
>I use Aura Whisper a lot to keep track of upcoming enemies, and I can
>have a lot of fun with Throw Voice! Dragonrend is useful as well, of
>course. I sometimes use Ice Form to temporarily disable the enemy while
>taking a breather. I like Marked for Death, or just the first word of
>Unrelenting Force to stagger the enemy. But with the timer you have to
>make up your mind which one to use in battle, you usually only get one
>chance. The rest I don't really have a use for because of the downtime.
Usually it's so I can fast travel in the daytime as a vampire since
there's not much sunlight damage happening in a torrential downpour.
I mostly find unrelenting force to be worthless - I don't think I've
ever actually knocked anything back any real distance - it staggers them
at best. Draugr using it on me have occasionally thrown me 50+ game
feet across a room and slammed me into a wall _well_ off the ground.
Somehow I get the feeling that what we get and what they get are NOT the
same shout. That or maybe it's cued to your and the opponents'
weights, but frankly I can't see why they'd introduce a sort or
realistic physics for that while using Hollywood physics for bows (I
routinely send people flying when shooting them.)
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