DK1 training room - boon or curse?
Robert Low
level 8 I'm getting taken to the cleaners by my creatures' training habits -
yet when I try to tunnel to the gems I run out of cash before I can get them
trained up enough to fight the AI. It seems to me that there can be such a
thing as too big a room early on - I can't stop them using it!!
Bob
Jonathan Ellis
Robert Low wrote in message <9csgkp$osq$1...@barcode.tesco.net>...
If you can't stop your creatures training early on, give them
something else to do instead, so they have something else on their
minds. For instance, put them in your Workshop, or on a Guard Post. Orcs
are particularly good Workshop operators, especially after they reach
level 5 and get the ability to haste themselves. Mistresses aren't bad
in the Workshop either, but are better on Guard Posts - especially on
this level, where you do a lot of looking out over lava, and want
something that can shoot over the lava, and a collection of 6th-level
Mistresses firing Lightning is as good as anything.
Another trick: Make a *huge* workshop. Let it accumulate a couple
of surplus doors and traps of ALL kinds. Then place out a few of your
strongest doors (NOT traps, as they have to be dragged from the
workshop, whereas doors are placed immediately) in a place which doesn't
really need them, and immediately sell them. Steel doors fetch 750 gold
pieces each when selling, and are available this level. Magic doors
fetch 1500 on later levels... On some levels (especially those in Deeper
Dungeons), this is invaluable - you can actually *live* on the cash you
get from selling doors. In one memorable case, you may even *need* to do
so (Deeper Dungeons level 10, "Netzcaro").
However, when making a large workshop, do not assume this means you
want trolls: you don't, as they can't fight well and don't have many hit
points. Your principal workshop operators will be Bile Demons, trained
as high as you can get them, and Orcs.
When you go for this realm, IGNORE the central southern gold
deposit: you do not yet want to open up the path to your enemy. Instead,
dig around it, leaving a thickness of wall to be fortified (which you
must do as fast as possible - make it so that there is a wall belonging
to you, covering the gap in the permanent rock), and go for the far
southeastern "H"-shaped gold deposits AT THE SAME TIME as going for the
gold around your heart. You want this gold, and the creatures that are
hiding to the northeast of the "H". Build a treasure room nearby, and
this will fund your training habit enough to survive the attacks of the
heroes when you break out of the northwestern corner of your realm. And
yes, it's *heroes*, not the AI keeper yet.
Kill (or capture, imprison, and starve or torture) the fairies who
will be your first guests: then dig further north along the long thin
gold seam, to an enclave of hero Barbarians (one of which will join you,
the rest of which should be captured, imprisoned and starved into
Skeletons. You *did* build a Prison, didn't you? And no, it's not worth
converting Barbarians: as Skeletons hit nearly as hard, train faster,
cost less and get access to the spell of Lightning at 10th level.
However, the Fairies are worth torturing, as they have Lightning
already. Unfortunately, they are desperately slow to train.)
Do not cross the lava to the east, to the AI keeper yet: head north
from the Barbarian cavern. You now approach a large, approximately
triangular, enclave nearly surrounded by permanent rock, filled with
nothing but gold, and with two gem blocks in the walls. The chances are
that the enemy Keeper has made inroads into this area already: so don't
try to do the same. Instead, fortify the earth tile in the middle of the
southern wall of the "triangle", so that the enemy cannot invade your
position, and bridge around the western edge over the lava to the outer
faces of the gem blocks, leaving the inner faces of the gem blocks to
him for now. Bridge further over the lava, to the north, and dig out a
large (and I mean *large*) treasure room, directly northwards from the
gem block on the north side of the triangle.
Sacrifice a few - or a lot - of 1st-level imps in the Temple, to
keep imp-replacement costs down late in the game. (Hint: if the cost of
an imp is more than 150 gold *right now*, then sacrifice *all* your
1st-level ones immediately, then buy replacements.) With the gem block,
you can afford to do this properly, so you can replace up to about 12 or
even more imps at no more than 150 gold each. Train some imps up to 3rd
level or higher, and set them on the gems: then your money worries will
be over, as these imps will now be FAST at mining.
Now train all your creatures as high as you wish. Use regularly the
spells of Sight of Evil and Lightning Strike on the inner faces of the
gems, to starve the enemy keeper of cash, so he can't train his own
creatures so high: so when you attack him, you are superior in both
numbers and level. (Use Sight of Evil regularly to find out what level
his creatures are approximately.) Finally, bridge around the north of
the triangle of permanent rock, and you will reach a bridge connecting
two islands, which is the weak spot in his realm - his Heart is very
close by. Smash him in one ultra-violent grand melee (drop ALL your
creatures at once), destroy his Heart, but don't leave without the
Hidden World special in a small hero fortress in the northeastern corner
of the realm. (There are, by the way, no heroes in the fortress, but two
deadly Boulder traps.)
Jonathan.
Cynthia Flanagan
middle until you get to the gems. Also put a door in the entrance then lock
the critters out. You will get "your creatures cant get to a training room"
but you can ignore it. If'in your keeping your critters from work they don't
get angery. Mistresses are also great in the library
Jonathan Ellis
Cynthia Flanagan wrote in message <3AF2C0BB...@juno.com>...
>Or you can build a training room to attract the creatures then sell the
>middle until you get to the gems. Also put a door in the entrance then
lock
>the critters out. You will get "your creatures cant get to a training
room"
>but you can ignore it. If'in your keeping your critters from work they
don't
Unless, of course, you're dealing with Horny and don't have a
temple: Horny *MUST* have something to do: either fighting, praying,
training or something else (he will research, scavenge or guard without
getting angry, but is not much good at any of these: he simply cannot
manufacture and hates being in a Barracks), or he gets angry - fast.
However, on this level in question (level 8) you shouldn't be getting a
Horny. It's actually possible to do so if you make the right sacrifice,
but the hint is not given the way it is in level 9 (by giving you, right
at the start, the three relevant creatures and a temple, which is as
good a hint as you'll ever get to sacrifice those particular three.)
Jonathan.
Cynthia Flanagan
DK 2 he cost way to much, gets angery too fast, and unless he is at a high
level gets killed off toot sweet. In the levels were he is in the map I tend
to get rid of him fast.
Jonathan Ellis
Cynthia Flanagan wrote in message <3AF33C5D...@juno.com>...
>The only time I use Horny is on level 20 on DK2 when you have too to
win.
I've heard about that level, but never reached it.
>In DK 2 he cost way to much,
I presume it's actually DK 1 you're talking about here, as I
believe he doesn't cost gold in DK2, only mana (admittedly, huge
amounts.) Pay him by hand between pay-days, instead of letting him visit
the treasury. A 10th-level Reaper in DK1 demands nearly 4000 gold on
pay-days, but if you pay him early - even as little as 50 gold - he'll
be so pleased at getting paid early that he completely fails to notice
you've got away with paying him only 50 gold, and he won't demand the
rest on pay-days: this also works for other creatures. If he ever gets
angry, grab a small handful of gold and drop it on him before he goes
psycho - you get a couple of minutes' warning between the "Your
creatures are getting angry" warning and him going psycho, unless you
slap him when he's at less than complete happiness (if he's at perfect
happiness, you may just get away with it as long as you pay him straight
afterwards), or unless you can't pay him on pay-day (which will drive
him mad, first offence, no warning, and once a Horny goes psycho there's
nothing else you can do with him except kill him. Best to do this by
starving him in the Prison, at least you get a skeleton for your
troubles...
> gets angry too fast
(1) If you put him in the temple, he won't get angry. At all. Ever.
Unless you don't have enough money to pay him when payday comes round:
(2) If you don't yet have a temple, put him in the training room,
but he's expensive to train. If all else fails, put him in the library
so he can *research* the temple himself.
> and unless he is at a high level gets killed off toot sweet. In the
levels were
>he is in the map I tend to get rid of him fast.
Then you're not dealing with him very well. Train him up to level
5, when he gets the ability to haste himself, and he is one hell of an
asset after that - fast, loads of hit points, hits like a bulldozer,
capable of beating up any single other creature in one-on-one combat
except an Avatar. True, he doesn't have any healing ability (like
dragons and warlocks), any area-effect attack (like bile demons' Fart
spell, deadly in large numbers if you drop lots of them into a
battlefield at once), or a distance attack (like the Mistress's
Lightning Bolt), but in plain melee no single enemy beats him except the
Avatar.
Horny is not super-powerfully capable of winning a whole war on his
own in DK1, so use him in conjunction with other creatures - drop, say,
a handful of Dragons in to start the fight, and maybe a Vampire or two
if you have them, as these are tough creatures that can Heal themselves
and have lots of hit points. Bile Demons, too, because they've simply
got so many hit points that they're hard to cut up. After that, you
throw in your big heavy melee thumpers, such as Orcs and Horny: the idea
is that the enemy creatures have already acquired "targets" in your
defensive creatures, and so your Orc or Horny isn't going to have to be
mobbed by a bunch of creatures (which tilts the odds against him) but
can take them on one at a time (when the odds are in favour of Horny.)
Finally, throw in your Warlocks and Mistresses for their distance
attacks - and Spiders or Tentacles too, if you have them and have
decided to build up a collection of them this level. Skeletons are
dual-purpose creatures: if they are levels 4-9, throw them in after the
Orcs and Horny to bolster your collection of Big Heavy Thumpers In
Melee. If they're level 10, throw them in last of all with your
Warlocks, in the hope that they will be shooting lightning *instead* of
meleeing. If they're below level 4, don't use them at all, let them keep
training. You should not let your Trolls, if you have any (which
normally you shouldn't bother with), fight, unless in seriously dire
straits: nor your Ghosts (again, you normally shouldn't have any of
these.) Hellhounds are also unlikely to be of much use in a fight as
they are so weak, unless they are of significantly higher level than the
enemy - which is entirely possible, as they train so fast.
Oh, and *every* time you go for a melee, use Horny if he's over
level 3. If he gets badly hurt, pull him out of the fight or Heal him,
but he gains experience far faster in fighting than in training - and it
doesn't cost you a penny. If you capture a powerful enemy, Heal him (by
dropping chickens on him, this also doesn't cost you a penny) and then
drop him in an empty room with Horny to fight a single combat. When
Horny wins, drag the enemy to the prison, heal him again, and drop him
near Horny again... Especially useful should you capture a Samurai or
Giant, as more experience is scored for each hit on these creatures (as,
indeed, is the case for an enemy Vampire or Dragon.) Of course, the best
creatures to train Horny up on are Knights and Avatars, but in the
standard DK or Deeper Dungeons levels you won't be capturing these till
the end of the level as there is only one Knight per level, and he is
the Lord of the Land (except in the last level, where the Lord is the
Avatar.)
You can also use this method to train your *other* creatures fast,
if Horny goes psycho. Make a small area with lair (to rest in), hatchery
(to feed him) and training room, and NO treasury, and put a door on the
area (always do this for Horny anyway): and lock him in, if he goes mad.
There's no curing him (and so there's no point ever paying him again),
you're never going to be able to use him in a fight again unless he goes
alone, but what you CAN do is throw your lesser creatures in two at a
time and let Horny fight them both, and meanwhile your lesser creatures
are getting valuable combat experience, faster than the Training Room
can give it to them and at no cost. Remember to pull your other
creatures out before they die. This method works exceptionally well for
Orcs, Dragons and Mistresses (and Vampires, once they get Drain), less
so for Bile Demons and Warlocks: in fact, if you want to train your
Warlocks this way, you have to give Horny something else like your
highest-level Dragon to beat on, while your Warlocks take pot shots at
Horny from distance. Remember also not to let Horny die either.
The hardest level in DK1 is, in fact, not the last one
(comparatively easy once you realise you don't have to beat the enemy
Keeper at all, or even fight him - it's possible to keep his attacks out
of your dungeon entirely by placing Guard Posts next to the water, which
he can never climb on to), but level number 16 "Tulipscent": the one
where you start with two Reapers and access to only one face of a gem
block, so you can't afford to train them both at the same time once
you've run out of gold blocks to dig and have nothing left but the gems.
You also can't afford *not* to pay both Reapers by hand, as it's so much
cheaper than letting them visit the treasury. I did find a way to beat
this level (and a way that doesn't involve transferring a high-level
creature and destroying the enemy right at the start before he gets
going, assuming your high-level creature can beat up two 8th-level Orcs
which the enemy Keeper starts with), but it was HARD. And I *needed*
both Reapers in the end.
Jonathan.
Jonathan Ellis
Cynthia Flanagan wrote in message <3AF33C5D...@juno.com>...
>The only time I use Horny is on level 20 on DK2 when you have too to
win.
I've heard about that level, but never reached it.
>In DK 2 he cost way to much,
I presume it's actually DK 1 you're talking about here, as I
believe he doesn't cost gold in DK2, only mana (admittedly, huge
amounts.) Pay him by hand between pay-days, instead of letting him visit
the treasury. A 10th-level Reaper in DK1 demands nearly 4000 gold on
pay-days, but if you pay him early - even as little as 50 gold - he'll
be so pleased at getting paid early that he completely fails to notice
you've got away with paying him only 50 gold, and he won't demand the
rest on pay-days: this also works for other creatures. If he ever gets
angry, grab a small handful of gold and drop it on him before he goes
psycho - you get a couple of minutes' warning between the "Your
creatures are getting angry" warning and him going psycho, unless you
slap him when he's at less than complete happiness (if he's at perfect
happiness, you may just get away with it as long as you pay him straight
afterwards), or unless you can't pay him on pay-day (which will drive
him mad, first offence, no warning, and once a Horny goes psycho there's
nothing else you can do with him except kill him. Best to do this by
starving him in the Prison, at least you get a skeleton for your
troubles...
> gets angry too fast
(1) If you put him in the temple, he won't get angry. At all. Ever.
Unless you don't have enough money to pay him when payday comes round:
(2) If you don't yet have a temple, put him in the training room,
but he's expensive to train. If all else fails, put him in the library
so he can *research* the temple himself.
> and unless he is at a high level gets killed off toot sweet. In the
levels were
>he is in the map I tend to get rid of him fast.
Then you're not dealing with him very well. Train him up to level
Cynthia Flanagan
for converting. The heal spell used once usually does the trick, unless of
course you are talking about the three princes. I used him in DK1 in level
20, but still not the powerhouse he should be even at 10. The dragons on
your home turf does the job.
BTW I looked thought out the messages before I started 20 the level on DK1
and no mention of putting boulder traps around the hero gates. They take out
most of the creatures who support the avatar making him a lot easier to
kill.
Lets face it you win or lose on the imps^,~
Bob Low
tricks before. When I first got DK I got way up to level 11 or so, then got
a new machine and didn't port it over for some reason - looks like there's
lots of life in it yet! Thanks to all...
Bob
Jonathan Ellis
Cynthia Flanagan wrote in message <3AF39C93...@juno.com>...
>I always use the chicken trick in DK1, but it doesn't work so well in
DK2
>for converting. The heal spell used once usually does the trick, unless
of
>course you are talking about the three princes. I used him in DK1 in
level
>20, but still not the powerhouse he should be even at 10. The dragons
on
>your home turf does the job.
It's level 16 where you really need to keep the two of them alive
that you start with. The more creatures you have, the less useful a
single Horny's going to be. In "Tulipscent", where both sides are
limited to 17 creatures and yours don't include Dragons, Mistresses or
more than one Warlock and two Bile Demons, then Horny's worth his weight
in gold assuming you can find a way to keep him alive, paid and
training: because Horny beats any number of Orcs, Trolls and Skeletons,
which are your main minions. In level 14, where you can also get a
Reaper, you don't need him at all - just wall the enemy out of your
realm, you get the two gem blocks, your enemies have none, they don't
even have a Workshop - and all their creatures will eventually desert
leaving you with nothing but imps. to fight against, and the Lord of the
Land, but you don't need Horny to beat him.
I also found a use for Horny in level 19 "Mistle": you get so few
creatures at the start, and only one of them (a Vampire) trained, and he
finds it hard to beat up the three 5th-level tentacles that are the
first monsters you face - whereas a 2nd-level Horny (which you get from
sacrificing a 1st-level Bile Demon, Mistress and Troll) is better at it.
Better still, of course, if you transfer a *high*-level Horny from
secret level 3 - the one where you have to use Cave-In to crush all your
imps: you get the Temple early in Mistle, so you can keep him happy, and
you can Possess him and run around bashing down all the doors so you get
access to your rooms that much faster. And he's much better at beating
up the level-5 tentacles. He's also useful near the end, once you've
found a training room, since the enemy's forces are only Skeletons and
Spiders, and Horny knocks hell out of both once he's trained.
>BTW I looked thought out the messages before I started 20 the level on
DK1
>and no mention of putting boulder traps around the hero gates. They
take out
>most of the creatures who support the avatar making him a lot easier to
>kill.
Yes, with a couple of exceptions: Many of the heroes don't come
through the "hero gates", but through "action points" which do not
appear on the map. In particular, the two "hero gates" in the central
castle are utterly useless, only there for show - a gang of heroes
arrives in the central castle, but in the central room where the Heart
used to be, not through the hero gates. In the small eastern fortress,
some of the forces arrive through the hero gate there, others in a
different room. And the Avatar himself comes from the large wide open
area west and north from your Portal, which is harder to trap with
boulders (to which Avatar is immune anyway.) The only creatures that
come through the hero gates along the south side of your realm are not
the most dangerous ones - mostly Dwarves, Thieves and Tunnellers, and
there is a trick to keeping them out of your realm without even using a
Boulder Trap. :-) So the areas to trap are not necessarily the hero
gates...
>Lets face it you win or lose on the imps^,~
In many levels, yes - it depends on how fast you mine gems, and
thus how fast you can train *all* your creatures at once. Level 18
"Blaise End" I found hard, because it's hard to train all your creatures
up high enough to survive the enemy attacks before running out of gold,
before you can get to and take control of the gems... this is a level
where you only want a few creatures training at once, if you can stop
the rest doing so.
Jonathan.