Bliz Still Tonguing PKs' Bottoms...
ro...@telus.net
time it wanted to with about half a dozen lines of code, yet they
choose instead to pander to the very worst element by always making
sure there are loopholes that allow PKs to stop Blizzard's
_paying_customers_ from enjoying the game, without any warning or risk
to the PK cheat whatsoever. It's like GM deciding to only make one
kind of locl and key for their cars, so anyone who buys a GM vehicle
can steal anybody else's GM vehicle. That way they get car thieves to
pay for at least one vehicle! A stroke of genius!
Anyway, I haven't been around much, just moved back onto USWest and
starting up a few HCL chars. I see a lot of PK cheating going on; the
two most popular forms being trigger cheat enchantresses (duh) and
some kind of trigger cheat that apparently works for a number of
different classes. Or is this more than one cheat? My wife (also
starting again on USWest HCL) just lost her top char, a skelimancer in
his 50s, to the latter type of cheat. Does anyone know exactly what
this cheat does, if it is new, if there is more than one such cheat in
common use, any particular tricks to avoid being murdered by these PK
cheats, etc.?
-- Roy L
Mark (newsgroups)
I've heard about a new cheat used in duels which takes advantage of the
fact that the _base_ point for various things such as FCR and FHR is
stored on the client rather than the server. The cheat modifies this
base so it's possible to get to full FCR, FHR etc with very little
mods on equipment. That leaves room for other better equipment and
obviously is a big advantage to the cheater.
It's probably not the same thing you're talking about. I have no idea
what "trigger cheat" is. Explain?
Mickey
Oddly enough, you NEVER see this in SC.
Mickey
Shiflet
"Mark (newsgroups)" <marknew...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1158056159....@e63g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> It's probably not the same thing you're talking about. I have no idea
> what "trigger cheat" is. Explain?
Trigger cheat=A number of actions tied to one "trigger" key. Basically, a
character who is partied with the players fires some sort of projectiles
towards the other characters, then they press the trigger. The trigger is a
set of commands to cast a TP, go to town, and go hostile on the other
players...and this all happens FAR faster than a human can do it manually,
we're talking a fraction of a second between the time he fires his
projectiles and is then hostile. Because the player is suddenly and
unexpectedly hostile, the projectiles fired by the trigger user, which are
still in the air at the time he goes hostile, are now counted as attacks
from a hostile player, and if the hit the other players they now do their
damage. Guided arrow and bone spirit are(or were, I don't keep up with
current hacks and glitches) the most popular projectics used because of
their homing ability, but it's also been done with fireball/firebolt,
tornado, hydra, glacial spike, and I believe even blessed hammer.
Shiflet
"Mickey" <mic...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1158060258.7...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Oddly enough, you NEVER see this in SC.
Actually, while it's very rare, I HAVE seen trigger users in SC. Rarely they
hit Baal runs, but they also do it in duel games as well. The most common
one in duel games was a zon who is non hostile to everyone runs way outside
town, spams GA towards the towngate, then triggers, so that the people
coming outside the gate to actually duel(or the ones already dueling out
there) are suddenly hit by the GAs.
> Mickey
>
Mark (newsgroups)
> "Mark (newsgroups)" <marknew...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1158056159....@e63g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> > It's probably not the same thing you're talking about. I have no idea
> > what "trigger cheat" is. Explain?
>
> Trigger cheat=A number of actions tied to one "trigger" key. Basically, a
> character who is partied with the players fires some sort of projectiles
> towards the other characters, then they press the trigger.
[snip]
Thanks, I have heard of this and seen it in action in a public Baal run
before but didn't associate the word "trigger" with it.
ro...@telus.net
Of course, because a SC PK doesn't get to inflict any actual suffering
on his victim, merely annoyance. The HC PK is a sociopath, and the
only thing that makes him feel good is that precious moment when he
knows his victim is suffering (like other sociopaths, the HC PK is
almost always male, always socially dysfunctional, friendless,
incapable of forming or sustaining healthy human relationships, and
haunted by feelings of sexual inadequacy due to the extreme smallness
of his genitalia).
The feeling of power the HC PK obtains by inflicting suffering on
others is essentially indistinguishable from that experienced by
real-life serial killers, whose personality type HC PKs closely
resemble. Like the serial killer, the HC PK seeks to compensate for
his inability to sexually satisfy any woman through normal relations
(which is why their sexual outlets are generally confined to
masturbation and prostitutes) by symbolically "raping" their victims.
Bottom line, you don't see SC PKs (except for some who practice for HC
in SC) for the same reason you don't see vandals spraypainting gravel
roads: it doesn't hurt anybody.
-- Roy L
Bingain
>
> Oddly enough, you NEVER see this in SC.
>
> Mickey
>
I have seen it many times -- and had been pk'ed a few times when
I attempted to fight -- while I was playing SC in 1.09. IIRC
there was no trigger/TP-PK back then, so other than the
annoyance, you can opt to not suffer from anything.
Actually I had been pk'ed once in 1.11 SC, while leveling up a
lvl 40 mule (a boner) and I forgot the pker was lvl 80 and I had
no FCR items yet).
As of last year (have not been in any pubbies so far since my
latest comeback), there were two main types of pkers, both are
considered lowlifes by most of us:
a) pker - they announce their intention before leaving town. You
can opt to get back to town before they start chasing you.
Usually they will put up a fight against chars 20+ levels higher
and win (different char design and gears).
b) Script-kiddies using trigger-pk. These are the lowest of
lowlife animals. They are also the most miserable ones. Pkers
brag about their success by showing others ears of their
victims. Script-kiddies don't have this luxury. By the time
their victims die, they're already in town, often a split second
away from leaving the game. They don't get to see the victims'
corpse, not to mention picking up ears. I had been targeted at
least twice in HC, once by a GA-zon (my barb out-ran the
missiles), once by a boner (I went into my own TP which was right
next to me as soon as I saw him open a tp).
Oddly, back in 1.10, as long as you knew how to choose, many HC
public Hell Baal run games were very safe. A number of these
games were hosted by some Trade Channel regulars, many of them
had pk/pvp chars themselves, and they knew all prominent pkers
or clans. Capable pkers wouldn't go into their games. Incapable
ones would get chased by them, either in game or by putting up a
high prize bounty. I suppose most of them have now moved on to
other games, as the only HC Hell public games you see now are
trade games.
Bing
Vince
<ro...@telus.net> wrote in message news:4506487b...@news.telus.net...
> Subject line says it all. Blizzard could stop all the PK cheating any
> time it wanted to with about half a dozen lines of code, yet they
> choose instead to pander to the very worst element by always making
> sure there are loopholes that allow PKs to stop Blizzard's
> _paying_customers_ from enjoying the game,
Paying customers? I dunno about you, but I don't pay a subscription to
battle.net, do you? ;)
If you're referring to closed battle.net play, then we are *all* paying
customers. You can only play a legit copy on battle.net, or at least with a
legit CD-Key one way or another.
The purchase of the game does not cover battle.net costs, so it's
irrelevant.
As long as single player works fine, they won't give a crap what happens on
battle.net, until approximately once every 18 months they drag themselves
away from World of Warcraft long enough to release a patch or do a reset,
etc.
But back to the point at hand, yes, all these bloody hacks etc are the
reason I shall always avoid hardcore. I can get angry enough at dying from
the corpse explosion on those bloody stygian dolls, I don't need the extra
frustration from some trigger cheater killing any of my characters.
VP.
~misfit~
> Paying customers? I dunno about you, but I don't pay a subscription
> to battle.net, do you? ;)
>
> If you're referring to closed battle.net play, then we are *all*
> paying customers. You can only play a legit copy on battle.net, or
> at least with a legit CD-Key one way or another.
> The purchase of the game does not cover battle.net costs, so it's
> irrelevant.
I beg to differ. Every other game of a similar age to D2/LoD has long gone
from the shelves and even from the bargain bins. D2/LoD is still there, on
the shelf, taking up prime real-estate, still commanding 80% of the price of
the latest and greatest games. (At least here in New Zealand).
Do the math. The game has easilly 'paid for itself' and made a tidy profit
years ago. A large portion of the purchase price goes towards battle.net. If
you didn't need seperate CD keys to run on battle.net then I wouldn't have
four fully paid-for copies of the game and the expansion.
If I just wanted to play SP or on my LAN I could just download ISOs of the
discs, no money at all need go to Blizz.
TTFN,
--
Shaun.
Justin Mahn
--
Justin Mahn
Vince
"~misfit~" <misfi...@yahookers.com.au> wrote in message
news:4507...@news2.actrix.gen.nz...
> I beg to differ. Every other game of a similar age to D2/LoD has long gone
> from the shelves and even from the bargain bins. D2/LoD is still there, on
> the shelf, taking up prime real-estate, still commanding 80% of the price
> of the latest and greatest games. (At least here in New Zealand).
£10 for Diablo 2 *and* Lord of Destruction over here in the UK.
> Do the math. The game has easilly 'paid for itself' and made a tidy profit
> years ago. A large portion of the purchase price goes towards battle.net.
> If you didn't need seperate CD keys to run on battle.net then I wouldn't
> have four fully paid-for copies of the game and the expansion.
The purchase of the game never has, and never will, include or cover the
costs of battle.net.
Consider this. The average game costs around £30. That's generally for a
game that either has no multiplayer aspect, or it's multiplayer component
includes a list of servers that other players host using in-game server
options. There is no online fee for them, they do not have to provide you
with servers or anything else. Blizzard/B.net do, and for the same cost.
According to their forums, they've only just started to make a profit from
the game within the last couple of years. Believe that if you will.
The point still remains, that battle.net is a FREE service.
> If I just wanted to play SP or on my LAN I could just download ISOs of the
> discs, no money at all need go to Blizz.
True, but then you can't play on closed B.net and you can't be killed as per
the original post.
VP.
ro...@telus.net
>"~misfit~" <misfi...@yahookers.com.au> wrote in message
>news:4507...@news2.actrix.gen.nz...
>> I beg to differ. Every other game of a similar age to D2/LoD has long gone
>> from the shelves and even from the bargain bins. D2/LoD is still there, on
>> the shelf, taking up prime real-estate, still commanding 80% of the price
>> of the latest and greatest games. (At least here in New Zealand).
>
>£10 for Diablo 2 *and* Lord of Destruction over here in the UK.
And the revenue to Blizzard on that sale is about 5, of which its
variable costs are at most 1.
>> Do the math. The game has easilly 'paid for itself' and made a tidy profit
>> years ago. A large portion of the purchase price goes towards battle.net.
>> If you didn't need seperate CD keys to run on battle.net then I wouldn't
>> have four fully paid-for copies of the game and the expansion.
>
>The purchase of the game never has, and never will, include or cover the
>costs of battle.net.
That, dude, is TOTAL BULL$#!+.
>Consider this. The average game costs around £30. That's generally for a
>game that either has no multiplayer aspect, or it's multiplayer component
>includes a list of servers that other players host using in-game server
>options. There is no online fee for them, they do not have to provide you
>with servers or anything else. Blizzard/B.net do, and for the same cost.
But Blizzard has already recouped its D2 development costs many times
over. The economics of a 20 million copy game are completely
different from the economics of a 200,000 copy game.
>According to their forums, they've only just started to make a profit from
>the game within the last couple of years. Believe that if you will.
I don't. It is flat-out absurd, and it sure as hell ain't what
they've been telling investors.
>The point still remains, that battle.net is a FREE service.
No, you PAY for that service when you buy the game. Which is why
Blizzard's insistence on letting PKs ruin your enjoyment of it is
soooo f*cked up.
>> If I just wanted to play SP or on my LAN I could just download ISOs of the
>> discs, no money at all need go to Blizz.
>
>True, but then you can't play on closed B.net and you can't be killed as per
>the original post.
??? Uh, that's kinda the point. ONLY if you have paid for and are
using the Bnet realm service is Blizzard's devotion to supporting PK
cheats at the expense of HC players an issue.
-- Roy L
Mark (newsgroups)
> "~misfit~" <misfi...@yahookers.com.au> wrote in message
> news:4507...@news2.actrix.gen.nz...
> > I beg to differ. Every other game of a similar age to D2/LoD has long gone
> > from the shelves and even from the bargain bins. D2/LoD is still there, on
> > the shelf, taking up prime real-estate, still commanding 80% of the price
> > of the latest and greatest games. (At least here in New Zealand).
>
> £10 for Diablo 2 *and* Lord of Destruction over here in the UK.
Do you mean £10 will get you both games? If so, I'd like to know where
because the cheapest I've found is online at play.com:
http://www.play.com/Games/PC/6-/Search.html?searchstring=diablo+2&searchtype=PC&searchsource=0
£16 is more than most older games (yes I realise they're seperate, but
you can't play LOD without D2), but then you do get free online play
too.
Cavadure
I'm going to agree with Misfit here. The only reason D2 still commands
it's retail presence is because of Bnet. I have 2 complete sets of CD
Keys, Misfit indicated he has 4. So between just the 2 of us that's 4
sets of sales only to have extra session on Bnet. Multiply that by the
bnet player base. The game sales do in fact fund Bnet and Blizzard has
made a tidy sum over the years from Bnet. Also consider the level of
service on Bnet and it's forums is not up to par with MMOs, so wage
associated costs are fairly low to run the service. When was the last
time you typed /petition and got an answer from a GM in Bnet? :)
EvilBill
> Vince wrote:
>> "~misfit~" <misfi...@yahookers.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:4507...@news2.actrix.gen.nz...
>>> I beg to differ. Every other game of a similar age to D2/LoD has
>>> long gone from the shelves and even from the bargain bins. D2/LoD
>>> is still there, on the shelf, taking up prime real-estate, still
>>> commanding 80% of the price of the latest and greatest games. (At
>>> least here in New Zealand).
>>
>> £10 for Diablo 2 *and* Lord of Destruction over here in the UK.
>
> Do you mean £10 will get you both games? If so, I'd like to know where
> because the cheapest I've found is online at play.com:
> http://www.play.com/Games/PC/6-/Search.html?searchstring=diablo+2&searchtype=PC&searchsource=0
>
Try the bargain buckets in GAME or somewhere like that.
--
--
* All your .sig are belong to us.
Yahoo: evilbill_agqx
Web: http://www.evilbill.org.uk
Vince
<ro...@telus.net> wrote in message news:4507ff26...@news.telus.net...
>>The purchase of the game never has, and never will, include or cover the
>>costs of battle.net.
>
> That, dude, is TOTAL BULL$#!+.
Bullshit how? Please backup your claims.
I know a fair bit about networking and the Internet infrastructure in
general, having worked for several ISP's in the past, and I can tell you
that the server and bandwidth costs involved in supplying the battle.net
service will NOT be cheap. These costs are recurring for Blizzard, whereas
game purchases are a one time fee.
If you think it's bullshit, then please enlighten me how.
> But Blizzard has already recouped its D2 development costs many times
> over. The economics of a 20 million copy game are completely
> different from the economics of a 200,000 copy game.
We're not talking about game development costs here, we're talking about the
recurring expense of providing servers, bandwidth, admins to maintain the
systems.
How many people are still buying copies of Diablo 2 / LOD?
Only those who want to mule, or use multiple copies for other reasons. It's
still hardly going to net them much is it?
>>The point still remains, that battle.net is a FREE service.
>
> No, you PAY for that service when you buy the game. Which is why
> Blizzard's insistence on letting PKs ruin your enjoyment of it is
> soooo f*cked up.
No, you don't pay for the service AT ALL.
One of the primary reasons you have to pay for World of Warcraft online is
due to the sheer expense in providing a MMORPG service. You only need to
look at the WoW 'server emulators' to get an idea of how much power is truly
needed to handle a service that large. As an example to you, I tried one of
these emulators on a 3.4GHz CPU machine (I'll leave out the other techy
details). With a single player, the processor was still running at around
70%. Whilst you can argue that this is because it's not official code and
is merely a hacked interpretation, the logic still applies.
Whilst Diablo 2 doesn't have the same number of game players, you can get an
idea of how intensive it can be also. If every item has a unique ID, and
drops are computed by the server, randomly per game, then you can imagine
how stressful this can be.
>>True, but then you can't play on closed B.net and you can't be killed as
>>per
>>the original post.
>
> ??? Uh, that's kinda the point. ONLY if you have paid for and are
> using the Bnet realm service is Blizzard's devotion to supporting PK
> cheats at the expense of HC players an issue.
I'll say it again, you do not pay for battle.net use. It's provided free
"as is", and they'll patch it if/when they like. It's always been the case.
VP.
Vince
> Do you mean £10 will get you both games? If so, I'd like to know where
> because the cheapest I've found is online at play.com:
> http://www.play.com/Games/PC/6-/Search.html?searchstring=diablo+2&searchtype=PC&searchsource=0
> £16 is more than most older games (yes I realise they're seperate, but
> you can't play LOD without D2), but then you do get free online play
> too.
Yep, as Bill pointed out, check out the GAME bargain bins.
VP.
Justin L
<whining>
>
>-- Roy L
why are you still playing this game?
Haven't you been crying about this for YEARS!!!??!!
PKs and cheats have been around forever, and they will always be
around in D2.
~misfit~
Nah, quote where it's actually available to back up your assertion please.
Or ammend it. Poking around bargain bins for hours, going shop-to-shop isn't
viable for some and time is money too.
If, as you say, new games go for £30 and D2/LoD is £16 then it's more than
50% new game price. For a game more than 5 years old. Most games that age
are 50p or no longer available.
In NZ it's still $60 for D2 and $40 for LOD in shops. New games go for about
$120. (I expect it's available more cheaply at on-line games sales sites).
There are still people buying D2 new, quite a few in fact, as it's
prominently displayed in PC shops and I've heard shop sales 'droids selling
it to folks with entry-level Compaq/HP/Dell etc. PCs (or laptops) with
on-board graphics who want a game to play.
--
Shaun.
~misfit~
> I'm going to agree with Misfit here.
You can't go wrong doing that. ;-)
> The only reason D2 still
> commands it's retail presence is because of Bnet. I have 2 complete
> sets of CD Keys, Misfit indicated he has 4. So between just the 2 of
> us that's 4 sets of sales only to have extra session on Bnet.
> Multiply that by the bnet player base. The game sales do in fact
> fund Bnet and Blizzard has made a tidy sum over the years from Bnet.
> Also consider the level of service on Bnet and it's forums is not up
> to par with MMOs, so wage associated costs are fairly low to run the
> service. When was the last time you typed /petition and got an
> answer from a GM in Bnet? :)
Also, other than the odd patch, D2 bnet is basically automated. It's
actually contracted out to AT&T, (at least US West is) Blizz don't even run
the server farm, they just pay a monthly fee to have it hosted. The attempt
to divert the mind concerning CPU power needed for running a WoW server
emulator is just that. Diversion. D2 needs far less 'power' to run.
Ponder this: If Blizzard weren't making money out of D2 realms play why the
court-case a couple years ago over those who chose to run bnetb servers?
Surely if it's the financial drain implied they'd be happy to hand it off to
it's fan-base to run the servers?
--
Shaun.
Noneyabusiness
LoD still costs US$30+ at most (brick/morter) retailers in *my* area
(Southern California), and I haven't seen the Battle Chest in ages.
Vince
> Also, other than the odd patch, D2 bnet is basically automated. It's
> actually contracted out to AT&T, (at least US West is) Blizz don't even
> run the server farm, they just pay a monthly fee to have it hosted. The
> attempt to divert the mind concerning CPU power needed for running a WoW
> server emulator is just that. Diversion. D2 needs far less 'power' to run.
Where do you get this AT&T info? If it's the b.net forums, I read that too,
and I think it's misleading.
The only reason D2 would need less 'power' is because it's a far older game,
but it would still require a significant amount of power.
With 14000 people online and in games last I checked, that's a lot of item
processing.... Don't forget that with every item that's dropped, the
server(s) is tracking it. With people doing Baal runs, cow runs and all
other kinds of questing, that's a lot of item drops a second.
> Ponder this: If Blizzard weren't making money out of D2 realms play why
> the court-case a couple years ago over those who chose to run bnetb
> servers? Surely if it's the financial drain implied they'd be happy to
> hand it off to it's fan-base to run the servers?
Simple: copyright. You own something, why let others copy or try to emulate
it?
If you owned a patent to an invention, and you'd seen somebody who's created
a replica, would you let them get on with it or jump straight on them? I'm
not sure about you but I'd be laying down massive amounts of legal fire in a
second.
Of course the other reason is money. I'm not doubting that Blizzard are
making no money out of D2/LOD sales, as given the fact I purchased another
copy 3 weeks ago proves this. Of course prohibiting any form of open source
server software will ensure that they are protecting their stream of income
from D2 sales, however small it may be.
The original argument is and was that Battle.net is a free service, and is
not included in the cost of the game.
One could also argue that D2/LOD never really made a profit. If it was such
a profitable game/empire, where's the sequel?
They should be making more than enough money from WoW to cover the D2
battle.net costs. In the time when there was no WoW, perhaps they were
running at a loss or break even?
Perhaps I'm wrong, and D2/LOD has sold so many copies that it has funded the
B.net system for the last 6+ years. I personally can't see it.
VP.
Shiflet
"Noneyabusiness" <TopS...@Need2No.com> wrote in message
news:oe8hg2pr3fdni5db2...@4ax.com...
> LoD still costs US$30+ at most (brick/morter) retailers in *my* area
> (Southern California), and I haven't seen the Battle Chest in ages.
Around here, Diablo 2 and D2:LoD aren't singly available at all. You can get
the Battle Chest for $30-40(new games in comparison are usually in the
$50-60 range), but if you just want D2 alone, or just wanna upgrade to LoD
from vanilla D2, you have to go online.
ro...@telus.net
wrote:
>On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:08:46 GMT, ro...@telus.net wrote:
>
><whining>
>>
>>-- Roy L
>
>why are you still playing this game?
I don't play much on the realms any more, especially pubbies, for
exactly the reason stated: PK cheats. I do enjoy playing SP, and
that's why Blizzard's deliberate sabotage of my (and most other HC
players') pubbie realm experience disgusts and infuriates me every
time I think, "You know, it would be a lot of fun to just find half a
dozen other players to...
...get murdered by vicious, despicable PK cheaters who never pay any
price for their misdeeds?!? No, forget it."
>Haven't you been crying about this for YEARS!!!??!!
I have pointed out numerous design errors in the game (the
ridiculously small stash and consequent clumsy, time-wasting muling
are also pet peeves), and will continue to do so. I hate waste, and I
hate Blizzard's attitude that they always know better than the player
community just because they've made a fortune from the game. Wealth
and success don't mean you are always right, or even that you have a
particularly more worthwhile viewpoint than anyone else. Look at The
Donald.
-- Roy L
~misfit~
> Perhaps I'm wrong, and D2/LOD has sold so many copies that it has
> funded the B.net system for the last 6+ years. I personally can't
> see it.
Not only has it funded B.net but it also part-paid (along with Warcraft, a
far less successful game sales-wise) for the development of WoW. Or do you
think that Blizzard have a money tree?
--
Shaun.
ArtDent
On 14-Sep-2006, "~misfit~" <misfi...@yahookers.com.au> wrote:
> do you think that Blizzard have a money tree?
They do.
An old fading one - D2, which they learned from.
And now they have their brand - spank the customer till he/she bleeds -
new one, WoW.
--
Wind up your radios, it's time to eat more music.
Dr. Demento
ro...@telus.net
>"~misfit~" <misfi...@yahookers.com.au> wrote in message
>news:4508a0b1$1...@news2.actrix.gen.nz...
>> Also, other than the odd patch, D2 bnet is basically automated. It's
>> actually contracted out to AT&T, (at least US West is) Blizz don't even
>> run the server farm, they just pay a monthly fee to have it hosted. The
>> attempt to divert the mind concerning CPU power needed for running a WoW
>> server emulator is just that. Diversion. D2 needs far less 'power' to run.
>
>Where do you get this AT&T info? If it's the b.net forums, I read that too,
>and I think it's misleading.
OTC, it's your own bizarre claims that would be misleading, if anyone
was dumb enough to believe them.
>The only reason D2 would need less 'power' is because it's a far older game,
>but it would still require a significant amount of power.
>With 14000 people online and in games last I checked, that's a lot of item
>processing.... Don't forget that with every item that's dropped, the
>server(s) is tracking it. With people doing Baal runs, cow runs and all
>other kinds of questing, that's a lot of item drops a second.
It's nothing to modern machines. And a lot of the people in games are
just trading, shopping, dueling, gambling, etc., not killing monsters.
>I'm not doubting that Blizzard are
>making no money out of D2/LOD sales, as given the fact I purchased another
>copy 3 weeks ago proves this.
??? It does no such thing. You are talking nonsense.
>Of course prohibiting any form of open source
>server software will ensure that they are protecting their stream of income
>from D2 sales, however small it may be.
D2/LoD can still be found in almost any electronics/computer/gaming
outlet. It would not be there if it was not selling, and at this
point in the product cycle, almost all the wholesale price goes
straight to Blizzard's bottom line.
>The original argument is and was that Battle.net is a free service, and is
>not included in the cost of the game.
Which is total garbage, as the box says right on it that for buying
the game, you get to use the servers.
>One could also argue that D2/LOD never really made a profit.
Yes, one could, if one was either very stupid or very dishonest.
>If it was such
>a profitable game/empire, where's the sequel?
Where's the sequel to StarCraft, one of the biggest hits (and best
games) of the late 90s? If Blizzard isn't coining a ton of dough off
huge hits like SC and D2, their staff should all be in the
unemployment line.
Unlike game mills like EA, Blizzard does not just pump out titles
hoping to recover their costs with the occasional hit. D2 is still
selling well. Why stop a revenue stream that is almost pure profit?
>They should be making more than enough money from WoW to cover the D2
>battle.net costs.
??? ROTFL!!! You think Bliz is subsidizing D2 Bnet with WoW
revenues??? Give your head a shake.
>In the time when there was no WoW, perhaps they were
>running at a loss or break even?
LOLOL!! Stop! You're killing me!
>Perhaps I'm wrong, and D2/LOD has sold so many copies that it has funded the
>B.net system for the last 6+ years. I personally can't see it.
What else have they been doing with the thousands of dollars _per_day_
that D2 sales must still be bringing in, hmm?
-- Roy L
ro...@telus.net
><ro...@telus.net> wrote in message news:4507ff26...@news.telus.net...
>>>The purchase of the game never has, and never will, include or cover the
>>>costs of battle.net.
>>
>> That, dude, is TOTAL BULL$#!+.
>
>Bullshit how? Please backup your claims.
>
>I know a fair bit about networking and the Internet infrastructure in
>general, having worked for several ISP's in the past, and I can tell you
>that the server and bandwidth costs involved in supplying the battle.net
>service will NOT be cheap. These costs are recurring for Blizzard, whereas
>game purchases are a one time fee.
Which is being spent how, do you suppose?
>> But Blizzard has already recouped its D2 development costs many times
>> over. The economics of a 20 million copy game are completely
>> different from the economics of a 200,000 copy game.
>
>We're not talking about game development costs here, we're talking about the
>recurring expense of providing servers, bandwidth, admins to maintain the
>systems.
It's almost entirely automated, and AT&T provides the hardware.
>How many people are still buying copies of Diablo 2 / LOD?
>Only those who want to mule, or use multiple copies for other reasons. It's
>still hardly going to net them much is it?
I'd be happy with it, as it is surely many millions of dollars per
year.
>>>The point still remains, that battle.net is a FREE service.
>>
>> No, you PAY for that service when you buy the game. Which is why
>> Blizzard's insistence on letting PKs ruin your enjoyment of it is
>> soooo f*cked up.
>
>No, you don't pay for the service AT ALL.
Flat false.
>One of the primary reasons you have to pay for World of Warcraft online is
>due to the sheer expense in providing a MMORPG service. You only need to
>look at the WoW 'server emulators' to get an idea of how much power is truly
>needed to handle a service that large. As an example to you, I tried one of
>these emulators on a 3.4GHz CPU machine (I'll leave out the other techy
>details). With a single player, the processor was still running at around
>70%. Whilst you can argue that this is because it's not official code and
>is merely a hacked interpretation, the logic still applies.
No, it doesn't, because D2 is not a MMORPG.
>Whilst Diablo 2 doesn't have the same number of game players, you can get an
>idea of how intensive it can be also. If every item has a unique ID, and
>drops are computed by the server, randomly per game, then you can imagine
>how stressful this can be.
Not. Computing power is cheap. It's labor that costs. That's why
WoW needs a subscription fee: the hundreds of DMs required to keep
everything running smoothly have to be paid. Bnet D2 servers are
almost entirely automated, and dirt cheap to run.
>>>True, but then you can't play on closed B.net and you can't be killed as
>>>per
>>>the original post.
>>
>> ??? Uh, that's kinda the point. ONLY if you have paid for and are
>> using the Bnet realm service is Blizzard's devotion to supporting PK
>> cheats at the expense of HC players an issue.
>
>I'll say it again, you do not pay for battle.net use. It's provided free
>"as is", and they'll patch it if/when they like. It's always been the case.
You pay for indefinite Bnet use when you buy the game.
-- Roy L
Vladesch
> Subject line says it all. Blizzard could stop all the PK cheating any
> time it wanted to with about half a dozen lines of code, yet they
> choose instead to pander to the very worst element by always making
> sure there are loopholes that allow PKs to stop Blizzard's
> to the PK cheat whatsoever. It's like GM deciding to only make one
> kind of locl and key for their cars, so anyone who buys a GM vehicle
> can steal anybody else's GM vehicle. That way they get car thieves to
> pay for at least one vehicle! A stroke of genius!
>
> Anyway, I haven't been around much, just moved back onto USWest and
> starting up a few HCL chars. I see a lot of PK cheating going on; the
> two most popular forms being trigger cheat enchantresses (duh) and
> some kind of trigger cheat that apparently works for a number of
> different classes. Or is this more than one cheat? My wife (also
> starting again on USWest HCL) just lost her top char, a skelimancer in
> his 50s, to the latter type of cheat. Does anyone know exactly what
> this cheat does, if it is new, if there is more than one such cheat in
> common use, any particular tricks to avoid being murdered by these PK
> cheats, etc.?
>
Blizzard panders to the PK'ers because they would lose more people if they
changed it.
Of course in a MMO they dont pander to the PKers because the demographics
are different. Not only can you choose not to be on a "pvp" (aka PK) server,
but all you lose from being PK'd is a small amount of time.
Note to blizzard: If you have a similar system of "pvp" in diablo 3, I will
simply pirate your game and play offline, since I wont need a cdkey.
Vladesch
> almost entirely automated, and dirt cheap to run.
>
Dont know if you play the game, but I can tell you the WOW servers are
probably a pain in the ass for blizzard to maintain, as they are very
unstable and mostly in need of hardware upgrading. They are only "entirely
automated" between breakdowns :)
Vince
<ro...@telus.net> wrote in message news:4508d0f6...@news.telus.net...
> OTC, it's your own bizarre claims that would be misleading, if anyone
> was dumb enough to believe them.
Get fucked, quite simply. I don't see you providing any supporting evidence
for your bullshit claims that Blizzard is rolling in money.
> It's nothing to modern machines. And a lot of the people in games are
> just trading, shopping, dueling, gambling, etc., not killing monsters.
That's rubbish, too. Nothing to modern machines? So why are WoW servers
constantly dying, and lagging?
>>I'm not doubting that Blizzard are
>>making no money out of D2/LOD sales, as given the fact I purchased another
>>copy 3 weeks ago proves this.
>
> ??? It does no such thing. You are talking nonsense.
Are you on acid or something?
The fact I bought the game means they are making money out of it. If I
bought the game, other people have bought it too.... or does that not
compute for you?
> Which is total garbage, as the box says right on it that for buying
> the game, you get to use the servers.
You get to use the FREE servers, yes. Blizzard could withdraw this at any
time. It's unlikely, but they could, and there would be nothing you could
do about it. Don't believe me? Go ask a lawyer.
> Where's the sequel to StarCraft, one of the biggest hits (and best
> games) of the late 90s? If Blizzard isn't coining a ton of dough off
> huge hits like SC and D2, their staff should all be in the
> unemployment line.
Complete rubbish. A couple of 'big games' do not set your company up for
the next 10 years or so.
Do you have any idea how much it costs to create a game as detailed as D2?
How long did it take them?
> Unlike game mills like EA, Blizzard does not just pump out titles
> hoping to recover their costs with the occasional hit. D2 is still
> selling well. Why stop a revenue stream that is almost pure profit?
Selling well? Figures? Do you work for Blizzard?
> ??? ROTFL!!! You think Bliz is subsidizing D2 Bnet with WoW
> revenues??? Give your head a shake.
No, that was a tongue in cheek comment. But you seem desperate enough to
dig for potshots.... idiot.
> LOLOL!! Stop! You're killing me!
I hope so.
> What else have they been doing with the thousands of dollars _per_day_
> that D2 sales must still be bringing in, hmm?
Proof of figures? Or more garbage?
VP.
~misfit~
> <ro...@telus.net> wrote in message
> news:4508d0f6...@news.telus.net...
> > OTC, it's your own bizarre claims that would be misleading, if
> > anyone was dumb enough to believe them.
>
> Get fucked, quite simply. I don't see you providing any supporting
> evidence for your bullshit claims that Blizzard is rolling in money.
Get fucked? Ok, we'e going to be like that then are we?
Blizzard is up to it's eyebrows in money. It's the most successful game
model on the market today. WoW sucks in money like a black hole sucks in
matter.
> > It's nothing to modern machines. And a lot of the people in games
> > are just trading, shopping, dueling, gambling, etc., not killing
> > monsters.
>
> That's rubbish, too. Nothing to modern machines? So why are WoW
> servers constantly dying, and lagging?
You seem a bit confused. He's talkoing about D2 servers, you're atalking
about WoW servers. Whole different ball game. Like, light-years apart. Give
it up already. WoW servers are a *completely* different story to D2 servers.
I've played WoW, it's 25 times as server-intensive as D2.
> > > I'm not doubting that Blizzard are
> > > making no money out of D2/LOD sales, as given the fact I
> > > purchased another copy 3 weeks ago proves this.
> >
> > ??? It does no such thing. You are talking nonsense.
>
> Are you on acid or something?
So is this the latest put-down? Are you unable to agrgue the facts so you
resort to trying to slurring someone's character?
> The fact I bought the game means they are making money out of it. If
> I bought the game, other people have bought it too.... or does that
> not compute for you?
Are you a native English speaker Vince? Your 'arguements' don't really make
sense. (In English)
> > Which is total garbage, as the box says right on it that for buying
> > the game, you get to use the servers.
>
> You get to use the FREE servers, yes. Blizzard could withdraw this
> at any time. It's unlikely, but they could, and there would be
> nothing you could do about it. Don't believe me? Go ask a lawyer.
Fuck lawyers. Until they remove the "unlimited access to battle.net" rider
from there mechandise, which would be very difficult to do with all those
pre-pirnted packs and then hard to justify with the prices they cahrge then
they're obnligated to do as they say. Provide B.net acces. "FOC".
> > Where's the sequel to StarCraft, one of the biggest hits (and best
> > games) of the late 90s? If Blizzard isn't coining a ton of dough
> > off huge hits like SC and D2, their staff should all be in the
> > unemployment line.
>
> Complete rubbish. A couple of 'big games' do not set your company up
> for the next 10 years or so.
> Do you have any idea how much it costs to create a game as detailed
> as D2? How long did it take them?
Blah.
> > Unlike game mills like EA, Blizzard does not just pump out titles
> > hoping to recover their costs with the occasional hit. D2 is still
> > selling well. Why stop a revenue stream that is almost pure profit?
>
> Selling well? Figures? Do you work for Blizzard?
Do you?
> > ??? ROTFL!!! You think Bliz is subsidizing D2 Bnet with WoW
> > revenues??? Give your head a shake.
>
> No, that was a tongue in cheek comment. But you seem desperate
> enough to dig for potshots.... idiot.
Arguementum ad hominem. A sure sign that your argument is failing on it's
own merits.
> > LOLOL!! Stop! You're killing me!
>
> I hope so.
It's probably the only way that you're going to win this arguisment.
> > What else have they been doing with the thousands of dollars
> > _per_day_ that D2 sales must still be bringing in, hmm?
>
> Proof of figures? Or more garbage?
That's for you tom cast aspersions on. The figuires speak for themselves.
Ever hear the expression "give up while you're only just behind?"
We can argue this all the way to the wire and it seems that you're the only
one with your particular viewpoint.
Hey, I've got all the time in the world, and access to facts. Lets boogie.
--
Shaun.
ro...@telus.net
?? I know. I was talking about the D2 servers. WoW is definitely an
expensive game to run even in terms of DM labor alone, but they have a
huge revenue stream to run it with, and D2 is simply an entirely
different story.
-- Roy L
ro...@telus.net
<vladx...@interxxxnode.oxxxn.net> wrote:
>Blizzard panders to the PK'ers because they would lose more people if they
>changed it.
They _assume_ they would, but IMO that assumption is entirely
unfounded, and may well be false. A lot of PKs would still PK even if
Blizzard didn't make PK cheats so readily available. Hell, a lot
would probably still PK using MK, trapping wps and tps, even if there
was no hostile button! At least that would take some skill. I have
lost a few HC chars to MK traps, and even one or two to legit PKs, and
that did not bother me (much). Being murdered by cheaters who need no
skills and take no risks just because Blizzard wants them to be able
to do that to me infuriates me.
>Note to blizzard: If you have a similar system of "pvp" in diablo 3, I will
>simply pirate your game and play offline, since I wont need a cdkey.
I am sooooo with you on that. I like playing SP just fine. But I
suspect Blizzard's intention is to make D3 unusable without a valid CD
key or equivalent.
-- Roy L
ro...@telus.net
><ro...@telus.net> wrote in message news:4508d0f6...@news.telus.net...
>> OTC, it's your own bizarre claims that would be misleading, if anyone
>> was dumb enough to believe them.
>
>Get fucked, quite simply. I don't see you providing any supporting evidence
>for your bullshit claims that Blizzard is rolling in money.
WoW has over 4 million subscribers, each paying about $10/month. Do
the math.
>> It's nothing to modern machines. And a lot of the people in games are
>> just trading, shopping, dueling, gambling, etc., not killing monsters.
>
>That's rubbish, too. Nothing to modern machines? So why are WoW servers
>constantly dying, and lagging?
We were talking about D2 servers, not WoW servers.
>>>I'm not doubting that Blizzard are
>>>making no money out of D2/LOD sales, as given the fact I purchased another
>>>copy 3 weeks ago proves this.
>>
>> ??? It does no such thing. You are talking nonsense.
>
>Are you on acid or something?
>The fact I bought the game means they are making money out of it. If I
>bought the game, other people have bought it too.... or does that not
>compute for you?
It does indeed. So why did you say Blizzard is making no money from
D2 sales? Look up about 10 lines.
>> Which is total garbage, as the box says right on it that for buying
>> the game, you get to use the servers.
>
>You get to use the FREE servers, yes. Blizzard could withdraw this at any
>time. It's unlikely, but they could, and there would be nothing you could
>do about it. Don't believe me? Go ask a lawyer.
They'd be in a world of hurt if they did any such thing.
>> Where's the sequel to StarCraft, one of the biggest hits (and best
>> games) of the late 90s? If Blizzard isn't coining a ton of dough off
>> huge hits like SC and D2, their staff should all be in the
>> unemployment line.
>
>Complete rubbish. A couple of 'big games' do not set your company up for
>the next 10 years or so.
?? WC2, Diablo, SC, D2, and WoW are not just a couple of big games.
There are five of them, and they have all been immensely profitable
industry leaders. SC and D2 have both been national crazes in South
Korea.
>Do you have any idea how much it costs to create a game as detailed as D2?
>How long did it take them?
It costs a small fraction of the revenue Blizzard has earned from it.
Look at the number of names in the credits. Multiply by a year's
salary for each one (and that's a huge over-estimate, as most of them
did not spend nearly a year working just on D2), and they account for
just a few million dollars. Out of several _hundred_ million in D2
revenues.
>> Unlike game mills like EA, Blizzard does not just pump out titles
>> hoping to recover their costs with the occasional hit. D2 is still
>> selling well. Why stop a revenue stream that is almost pure profit?
>
>Selling well? Figures? Do you work for Blizzard?
I see it in stores, a lot. It would not be there if it was not
selling well.
>> What else have they been doing with the thousands of dollars _per_day_
>> that D2 sales must still be bringing in, hmm?
>
>Proof of figures? Or more garbage?
The fact that D2 is widely available in retail stores _proves_ that it
is earning its keep in terms of revenue, and at this point in the
product's life cycle, the store's cost to sell a copy is a multiple of
Blizzard's cost to ship one.
-- Roy L
Marcel Beaudoin
> On Thu, 14 Sep 2006 09:46:12 GMT, "Vince" <v...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>><ro...@telus.net> wrote in message
>>news:4508d0f6...@news.telus.net...
>>> OTC, it's your own bizarre claims that would be misleading, if
>>> anyone was dumb enough to believe them.
>>
>>Get fucked, quite simply. I don't see you providing any supporting
>>evidence for your bullshit claims that Blizzard is rolling in money.
>
> WoW has over 4 million subscribers, each paying about $10/month. Do
> the math.
nit - $15 a month (USD).
--
Marcel
http://mudbunny.blogspot.com/
Cavadure
nit2: That's the single month price. A tad lower paying multiple
months in advance. Still closer to 15 than 10 though.
Justin L
>On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 20:21:22 GMT, Justin L <leeju...@hotmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 09:08:46 GMT, ro...@telus.net wrote:
>>
>><whining>
>>>
>>>-- Roy L
>>
>>why are you still playing this game?
>
>I don't play much on the realms any more, especially pubbies, for
>exactly the reason stated: PK cheats.
Right, so why did you go back again?
> I do enjoy playing SP, and
>that's why Blizzard's deliberate sabotage of my (and most other HC
>players') pubbie realm experience disgusts and infuriates me every
>time I think, "You know, it would be a lot of fun to just find half a
>dozen other players to...
>
>...get murdered by vicious, despicable PK cheaters who never pay any
>price for their misdeeds?!? No, forget it."
>
>>Haven't you been crying about this for YEARS!!!??!!
>
>I have pointed out numerous design errors in the game (the
>ridiculously small stash and consequent clumsy, time-wasting muling
>are also pet peeves), and will continue to do so. I hate waste, and I
>hate Blizzard's attitude that they always know better than the player
>community just because they've made a fortune from the game. Wealth
>and success don't mean you are always right, or even that you have a
>particularly more worthwhile viewpoint than anyone else. Look at The
>Donald.
>
Personlly, I think you are wasting your time.
Time to find another game maybe?
I have one I could recommend, but I would get probably get flamed for
it... :P
Noneyabusiness
wrote:
Nit 3: a newspaper article I read a week or so ago said that WoW has
upwards of SEVEN million players, and is the most successful game to
date. (The next closest games had subscribers numbering in the mere
hundreds of thousands!)
...
freemont
Since y'all brought that game up, there was an article about it in this
week's Newsweek:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14757769/site/newsweek/
--
"Because all you of Earth are idiots!"
¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·-> freemont© <-·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯
Mickey
Vince wrote:
> <ro...@telus.net> wrote in message news:4508d0f6...@news.telus.net...
> > OTC, it's your own bizarre claims that would be misleading, if anyone
> > was dumb enough to believe them.
>
> Get fucked, quite simply. I don't see you providing any supporting evidence
> for your bullshit claims that Blizzard is rolling in money.
Well then, go look up Vivendi-Universal's 10K filing with the SEC. It
is public information, and Blizzard earned a fucking fortune last year.
Care for a little mustard with that crow?
Mickey
~misfit~
Seems that, on the basis of that article, we have to change the 4 million
subscribers figure to 7 million.
7,000,000 x $15 = $105,000,000 income per month, $1.26 billion a year. It's
been going two years now and, if anything, the user base is getting bigger.
I find this interesting too, trying to break into the world's biggest
market: "In China, 600 million Coke cans were festooned with WOW figures."
Also: "Blizzard COO Paul Sams says only, "We are an incredibly profitable
company."
--
Shaun.
~misfit~
And quoted from this weeks Newsweek:
Blizzard COO Paul Sams says only, "We are an incredibly profitable company."
It's obvious that Vince is retarded, a troll, or both.
--
Shaun.
ro...@telus.net
<marcel....@gmail.com> wrote:
$15 is the max, but there are numerous deals and offers that reduce
the average. $10 might be too low, but I was just offering a
_conservative_ ballpark revenue estimate of $40M/month. The actual
number looks to be at least double that.
-- Roy L
ro...@telus.net
>Since y'all brought that game up, there was an article about it in this
>week's Newsweek:
>
>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14757769/site/newsweek/
"Even those who dropped out will be tempted to return later this year
when Blizzard releases its long-awaited update The Burning Crusade."
Not sure that was the best choice of name, given the Muslim
community's sensitivity about the Crusades, which they think of
roughly as we view Attila the Hun.
"The key features include two new races, a new continent to explore
and an increase in the level cap from 60 to 70."
Hehe. Like that was a surprise....
-- Roy L
Flank Groinpull
Anything that pisses off a group of overly sensitive ass-cheeses (and
I'm not just singling out the whining segment of the world's muslims)
puts a big smile on my face.
john graesser
"Noneyabusiness" <TopS...@Need2No.com> wrote in message
news:oe8hg2pr3fdni5db2...@4ax.com...
> LoD still costs US$30+ at most (brick/morter) retailers in *my* area
> (Southern California), and I haven't seen the Battle Chest in ages.
We still get Battle chests stocked here at Walmart. I guess it pays to live
here in the sticks. Of course it has maintained a price of $40 for the
chest.
john graesser
"Vladesch" <vladx...@interxxxnode.oxxxn.net> wrote in message
news:12gi4cb...@corp.supernews.com...
> Blizzard panders to the PK'ers because they would lose more people if they
> changed it.
> Of course in a MMO they dont pander to the PKers because the demographics
> are different. Not only can you choose not to be on a "pvp" (aka PK)
server,
> but all you lose from being PK'd is a small amount of time.
If you play SC LOD then all you lose is gold. Not what I consider a
hardship.
Considering how many lost use of keys over mh and bots, I don't think they
are really worried about how many are playing.
One thing seemingly forgotten is that even original Diablo servers are still
up and running. There may be less than a dozen people on them each day, but
they are there.