Diablo - does the rogue suck?
Allen
It seems to me that the rogue is the least attractive character (from a
playability perspective) to run in Diablo.
Why? Cause she can't hold a shield. If I want to fight close in I'll run
a fighter, carry my sword and shield and hack away. If I want range
attacks I'll run a sorcerer, carry my sword and shield, and cast spells.
The rogue seems to be the "worst" of both worlds. She isn't as good as a
figher in close in combat, and she isn't as good as a sorcerer at range
attacks, and she cannot use a shield if she wants to use a bow.
And shields are most helpful with all the bonuses and resistances they can
provide. I just can't see the point of having a weaker character (one
without a shield) that is only good at weaker range attacks (arrows vs
spells).
Now I know some high level rogues can do like 100-200 points of damage per
arrow, to which I say "big deal", my sorcerer can do 1000 points of damage
per fireball and a few chain lightning spells can clear out a whole room.
Anyway, I was wondering if there was something I was missing on the
beauty of running a rogue character, if someone has a preference on why
they like rogues.
Later...
Allen
D.D. Johnston
On 10 Mar 1997 16:24:55 -0600, all...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (Allen)
wrote:
<clip>
>
>Now I know some high level rogues can do like 100-200 points of damage per
>arrow, to which I say "big deal", my sorcerer can do 1000 points of damage
>per fireball and a few chain lightning spells can clear out a whole room.
>
I've just gotta ask! How did you get a mage with a 1000 point
Fireball? I'm running a Level 34 mage on solo multiplayer, hell
difficulty level, and my Fireball spell is at level 5 and only does
128 - 193 points of damage. How did you manage it?
ddj
Darkmyst
Allen wrote:
>
> It seems to me that the rogue is the least attractive character (from a
> playability perspective) to run in Diablo.
>
> Why? Cause she can't hold a shield. If I want to fight close in I'll run
> a fighter, carry my sword and shield and hack away. If I want range
> attacks I'll run a sorcerer, carry my sword and shield, and cast spells.
>
> The rogue seems to be the "worst" of both worlds. She isn't as good as a
> figher in close in combat, and she isn't as good as a sorcerer at range
> attacks, and she cannot use a shield if she wants to use a bow.
>
> And shields are most helpful with all the bonuses and resistances they can
> provide. I just can't see the point of having a weaker character (one
> without a shield) that is only good at weaker range attacks (arrows vs
> spells).
>
> arrow, to which I say "big deal", my sorcerer can do 1000 points of damage
> per fireball and a few chain lightning spells can clear out a whole room.
>
> beauty of running a rogue character, if someone has a preference on why
> they like rogues.
>
> Later...
>
> Allen
Actually I think the Rogue is the most powerful character for solo play.
At lvl 30 I did Diablo and all the levels of hell on hardest setting
for multi-play. I was using the bow.
And now I have the King's Sword of Haste and I can hit so fast that
Diablo can never get a blow in... and neither can most other creatures
unless they gang on me...
The key with the bow is shoot... run back... shoot run back...
The witches are easy and the mages are as well... with bow you never
chase them... they come to you...
The only spells I ever use are heal and teleport (for emergency run
away)... If you run back around a corner then you can kill all
the creatures as they come around corner... You can also shoot
creatures off screen... the key is to hold "shift" down so you don't
move while firing.
All the characters have their uses... I think it depends on your play
style... I find that my Rogue is more to my style than my fighter
or Sorcerer... but that's just how I like to play... Everyone will
be different...
My point is only that I can solo Hell and Diablo on the Hell Setting
with a Rogue and so could you, but only if you liked the style of
play and took the time to learn to use the Rogue... Same goes for all
the characters...
I don't like the Sorcerer much because it is too hard to play with other
people... Too many of the spells are murder on everyone else...
The Rogue and Warrior are much better for group play... and as we
all know a lot of people won't play multi-player games with those
that are Sorcerers... no fun to die to chain lightning or a fireball
that was "aimed" at the creature you're pounding on with your sword!
Darkmyst
Frank Liu
D.D. Johnston wrote:
>
> On 10 Mar 1997 16:24:55 -0600, all...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (Allen)
> wrote:
>
> <clip>
> >
> >arrow, to which I say "big deal", my sorcerer can do 1000 points of damage
> >per fireball and a few chain lightning spells can clear out a whole room.
> >
> Fireball? I'm running a Level 34 mage on solo multiplayer, hell
> difficulty level, and my Fireball spell is at level 5 and only does
> 128 - 193 points of damage. How did you manage it?
>
> ddj
My level 42 mage has max out magic and with some rings go over 255. Once
a book requirment reach 255 it will never go higher, so just keep
restarting game and buy it from the witch. The max is level 15 and does
about 800 dmg. With arch-angel and thinking cap u can get up to 19 which
does 1128 for me. The dmg is depended on ur spell level and char level.
As for rogues, they suck. Keep hitting me with arrows should've fireball
them to death. :-)
Frank
Allen
>I've just gotta ask! How did you get a mage with a 1000 point
>Fireball? I'm running a Level 34 mage on solo multiplayer, hell
>difficulty level, and my Fireball spell is at level 5 and only does
>128 - 193 points of damage. How did you manage it?
Get your Magic up to 255, then buy lots of Fireball books or visits lots
of Enchanted Shrines to get fireball up to level 15. Then recently I
found a Thinking Cap which raises all my spells 2 levels so I'm up to
level 17 Fireball, which does around 700-1000 points of damage I believe
for only 10 mana points. Fast too, as fast as any bow, if not faster.
Allen
K. Laisathit
In article <5g21nn$g...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>,
Allen <all...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> wrote:
[sniped]
>The rogue seems to be the "worst" of both worlds. She isn't as good as a
>figher in close in combat, and she isn't as good as a sorcerer at range
>attacks, and she cannot use a shield if she wants to use a bow.
>
>And shields are most helpful with all the bonuses and resistances they can
>provide. I just can't see the point of having a weaker character (one
>without a shield) that is only good at weaker range attacks (arrows vs
>spells).
With the exception of fast blocking, which is useful in close combat,
the AC and resistance can be provided with either Rogue's natural high
dexterity stat (5 dex = 1 ac) or rings. You only need 2 obs rings to
max out all resistance. My rogue is wearing a Jade amulet of wiz,
obs ring (no suffix though), and royal circlet. The combo brings her
resistance close to max. Her base 190 dex provides more AC than a
typical shield.
>Now I know some high level rogues can do like 100-200 points of damage per
>arrow, to which I say "big deal", my sorcerer can do 1000 points of damage
>per fireball and a few chain lightning spells can clear out a whole room.
How could a rogue do 100-200 points of damage is beyond me. I don't
think my rogue could go much above an average of 100.
>Anyway, I was wondering if there was something I was missing on the
>beauty of running a rogue character, if someone has a preference on why
>they like rogues.
Rogue is a lot of fun to play. You are absolutely right in the sense that
Rogue alone is very hard to play in high difficulty. As a matter of
fact, I just posted a request for some pointers for playing a rogue
in high difficulty game.
Why is she fun to run? For one thing, she doesn't care about creatures'
resistance. A mage needs to watch out which monsters are immune to
which type of spell. Also, he is very hard to play early on. As
someone pointed out, before he gets high level spells, he will be
killed a lot (of course, I'm assuming he is not using any of the
hacked/illegitimately acquired stuff). Also, all tough monsters
are immune to one magic or another, but all are susceptible to
the steel tips of arrows.
As for warrior. Repetitive is the word. He couldn't do squat in the
department of range attack. This means he's got to run down every
damn creature in the level. He is great against those swarmed
creatures (e.g., viper), but when it comes to witches and wizards,
it can be frustrating. Try chasing down those Hell Spawns and let
me know if that strikes you as being enjoyable. For a rogue, no
problem, fire away!
Having said all that, I got to admit that it's much touger
surviving in high diff games with a rogue. She suffers the
same fate as the mage does when swarmed. Yet, she couldn't
cast the spell fast or powerfully enough to get herself out
of the situation. She can't stand toe-to-toe with the swarm
as the warrior can. Yet her bow will never do enough damage to
prevent being swarmed every once in a while.
Later...
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
K I R A T I L A I S A T H I T kir...@u.washington.edu
Layne
Hmmm i have the same curiosity there....I have finally gotten my Mages(31)
fireball spell to level 15 and it's top damage is 590 or 593 but not near
1k and it goes up to around 700 with spell enhancing staves......
I would reallly like to know the way it's done....the fireball is pretty
dangerous now i would love to see it and 1k =-)
Layne
--
Remove the spamsucks from my email address to send me email
D.D. Johnston <ban...@whidbey.net> wrote in article
<33249b27...@news.whidbey.com>...
> On 10 Mar 1997 16:24:55 -0600, all...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (Allen)
> wrote:
>
> <clip>
> >
> >Now I know some high level rogues can do like 100-200 points of damage
per
> >arrow, to which I say "big deal", my sorcerer can do 1000 points of
damage
> >per fireball and a few chain lightning spells can clear out a whole
room.
> >
> I've just gotta ask! How did you get a mage with a 1000 point
> Fireball? I'm running a Level 34 mage on solo multiplayer, hell
> difficulty level, and my Fireball spell is at level 5 and only does
> 128 - 193 points of damage. How did you manage it?
>
> ddj
>
OC SickBoy
But what are you going to do when you face monsters immune/resistant to
all magics? (read: Diablo) I like the rouge for the simple reason that
she can do physical (non magical) damage from a long ways away,
well...thats my take
SickBoy
ben
>Having said all that, I got to admit that it's much touger
>surviving in high diff games with a rogue. She suffers the
>same fate as the mage does when swarmed. Yet, she couldn't
>cast the spell fast or powerfully enough to get herself out
>of the situation. She can't stand toe-to-toe with the swarm
>as the warrior can. Yet her bow will never do enough damage to
>prevent being swarmed every once in a while.
One spell. Teleport ;) Very handy little spell. Actually, the first
time I was in normal hell to get my first dot, it was a breeze. level
25 rogue. managed to killed most of the enemies before they reached
me.
Alan A. Hobson
In article <33249b27...@news.whidbey.com>, ban...@whidbey.net says....>Now I know some high level rogues can do like 100-200 points of damage per
.>arrow, to which I say "big deal", my sorcerer can do 1000 points of damage
.>per fireball and a few chain lightning spells can clear out a whole room.
.>
>I've just gotta ask! How did you get a mage with a 1000 point
>Fireball? I'm running a Level 34 mage on solo multiplayer, hell
>difficulty level, and my Fireball spell is at level 5 and only does
>128 - 193 points of damage. How did you manage it?
>
>ddj
You need to build up your fireball spell. It's one of the most useful in the
game. Unless the monster is immune, you can kill just about anything with 1-3
high level fireballs. The stats on my level 32 mage's fireball are:
Fireball (Level 15) mana:10 damage:376-594
That's without enhancement. Normally, I carry an Archangel's staff of Haste
which raises all my spells 2 levels. With that the stats are:
Fireball (Level 17) mana:10 damage:475-751
I would assme that the above player has something like Naj's Light Plate and/or
a Thinking Cap to raise it a couple more levels. In that case, I could see the
spell doing 1000 damage.
-Alan
Rogue: Allyce Lvl 34
Warrior: Duufys Lvl 30
Mage: Frobozz Lvl 32
Mark Asher
How do you get a mage with a 1000 point fireball? Get it up to level 15 and
then use a combination of spell-enhancing items. My 36th level sorcerer
with *all* honest items is outfitted as follows:
-- Dreamflange, which raises spell levels up 1
-- Thinking Cap modified by a shrine to be 11/11 durability which raises
spell levels up 2 (took me 4 nights to find 2 Hidden Shrines to do the
trick; the first one only alters the durability from "altered durability"
to normal durability. The second one raises it.)
-- Naj's Light Plate, which raises spell levels up 1
That gives me 19th level spells for spells maxed out by books. I also carry
around an AA staff of Elementals that will boost spell levels up to 20th
level. My fireball can do almost 1200 points of damage at that level.
My sorcerer also uses Stormshield to round out his collection of unique
items. I even carry around a Constricting Ring and a Ring of Engagement, so
I can outfit him in all uniques with the exception of an amulet. I don't
think there is a unique amulet in the multiplayer game.
As an interesting sidenote to fellow sorcerers, I played this character for
a long time like other characters regarding AC: I did everything I
reasonably could to max AC, which isn't a bad strategy. However, I realized
that as long as I didn't melee (get swarmed), I could probably get by with
less. That's where Naj's Plate comes in. It has no strength requirements.
This allowed me to juggle rings and amulets to boost mana rather than the
strength needed to wear heavy plate armor. The net result is I have a
sorcerer with level 19 spells and 854 mana points. I just use teleport to
get out of trouble. I'm thinking of perhaps using a different shield at
some point also. I think I've seen shields with the "of Harmony" suffix. It
might be worth it to use one of these instead of Stormshield. I might stand
a better chance of getting a spell off when swarmed. Oh, and his resistance
is maxed due to the unique's he's wearing and an Obsidian Ring of the
Zodiac (+34% resist all, +19 all stats) I found a couple of nights ago on
level 15 in a chest of all places.
Mark Asher
Maureen Grady
aho...@indy.net (Alan A. Hobson) wrote:
>I would assme that the above player has something like Naj's Light Plate and/or
>a Thinking Cap to raise it a couple more levels. In that case, I could see the
>spell doing 1000 damage.
Both Fireball and Elemental keep increasing in power as your mage
levels up. In other words, a level 15 fireball from a level 40 mage
is quite a bit more powerful than a level 15 fireball from a level 32
mage.
I haven't put on the Naj's and Thinking cap in awhile, but last time I
did (about level 39 I think) my Fireball was at about 1134 max damage
at level 20 (Think cap, AA staff, Naj's).
Ken Fishkin
Allen wrote:
>
> It seems to me that the rogue is the least attractive character (from a
> playability perspective) to run in Diablo.
>
> figher in close in combat, and she isn't as good as a sorcerer at range
> attacks, and she cannot use a shield if she wants to use a bow.
yeah, but she can shoot a nearly infinite number of arrows from
her bow, while the mage runs out of mana. Also, while many creatures
are immune to various types of spells, nobody is immune to
arrow fire.
overall i agree that the mage is better, but the rogue isn't
so bad.
--
Ken Fishkin fis...@acm.org
http://www.parc.xerox.com/fishkin
Jim Wesolowski
Ken Fishkin wrote:
> yeah, but she can shoot a nearly infinite number of arrows from
> her bow, while the mage runs out of mana. Also, while many creatures
> are immune to various types of spells, nobody is immune to
> arrow fire.
>
> overall i agree that the mage is better, but the rogue isn't
> so bad.
Two points.
1) The rogue does occasionally have to repair her bow unless she
has an indestructable one. So, the number of arrows is not infinite.
2)In order to fire effectively, the rogue must hold down the shift
key. This means that it is difficult to drink potions or change
spells via hotkey.
The mage, on the other hand, can keep an inventory full of potions
and restock his belt in quiet spells. Also, the left hand is free
to drink potions and change spells.
Paul Masters
Allen wrote:
It seems to me that the rogue is the least attractive character
(from a
playability perspective) to run in Diablo.
Why? Cause she can't hold a shield. If I want to fight close in
I'll run
a fighter, carry my sword and shield and hack away. If I want range
attacks I'll run a sorcerer, carry my sword and shield, and cast
spells.
The rogue seems to be the "worst" of both worlds. She isn't as good
as a
figher in close in combat, and she isn't as good as a sorcerer at
range
attacks, and she cannot use a shield if she wants to use a bow.
And shields are most helpful with all the bonuses and resistances
they can
provide. I just can't see the point of having a weaker character
(one
without a shield) that is only good at weaker range attacks (arrows
vs
spells).
Now I know some high level rogues can do like 100-200 points of
damage per
arrow, to which I say "big deal", my sorcerer can do 1000 points of
damage
per fireball and a few chain lightning spells can clear out a whole
room.
Anyway, I was wondering if there was something I was missing on the
beauty of running a rogue character, if someone has a preference on
why
they like rogues.
Later...
Allen
When using the rogue in a duel, you can easily kill any warrior. I am
generally able to shoot faster than they can react. They spend all their
time healing and if they start moving towards me my arrows knock them
back so they can't move.
ben
>1) The rogue does occasionally have to repair her bow unless she
>has an indestructable one. So, the number of arrows is not infinite.
fairly quickly to replace my potions ( i only have 440 mana points )
AND when its out i am usually in deep shit, but as a rogue i could
hang out a lot longer. the amount of damage needed to break a bow is
high enough so that the number of arrows could be considered virtually
infinite. yes it ISN'T infinite, but IF i get so close as to losing a
bow, i am way out of my league in the terms of enemies.
>
>2)In order to fire effectively, the rogue must hold down the shift
>key. This means that it is difficult to drink potions or change
>spells via hotkey.
>
:) Agreed for the spells. Sometimes I miss the F# key. but ya know,
drinking potions is as easy as changing weapons in quake or doom.
never really had a problem with that.
>The mage, on the other hand, can keep an inventory full of potions
>and restock his belt in quiet spells. Also, the left hand is free
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
mute point, any character could also do that.
Brian Dunkle
In article <3325A2...@prism.gatech.edu>,
Jim Wesolowski <vap...@prism.gatech.edu> wrote:
>Ken Fishkin wrote:
>
>> yeah, but she can shoot a nearly infinite number of arrows from
>> her bow, while the mage runs out of mana. Also, while many creatures
>> are immune to various types of spells, nobody is immune to
>> arrow fire.
>>
>> overall i agree that the mage is better, but the rogue isn't
>> so bad.
>
>Two points.
>
>has an indestructable one. So, the number of arrows is not infinite.
>
>key. This means that it is difficult to drink potions or change
>spells via hotkey.
>
>and restock his belt in quiet spells. Also, the left hand is free
Biggest thing I find tougher is that the rogue's bow can only
hit one creature at a time. On some later levels (that I've gotten to
with my wizard, but not my rogue) my wizard just needs to sit, blasting
away with chain lightning in a huge pile of bad guys.
But I'm gonna get there with the rogue, just for the challenge. :)
--
* Brian Dunkle * I'll be damned if I'm not getting crankier all the time...
* bdu...@biocom.arizona.edu http://www.biocom.arizona.edu/~bdunkle
*
* "Klugman! KLUGMAN! KLUG-MAN!"
Edward Kenworthy
>
> It seems to me that the rogue is the least attractive character (from a
> playability perspective) to run in Diablo.
>
<snip, snip>
I agree. I played a Rogue to 37th level and whilst it was great fun at
the lower levels (more fun than either Warrior or Sorceror IMO) she just
doesn't cut the mustard, so to speak. She's a compromise between a
warrior and a sorceror and as such lacks both classes extreme strenghts -
which are required on the higher levels.
I could probably do nightmare/hell with my Rogue but Hell/Hell - never
without cheating (which I don't do -what's the point ?) - exactly because
she does about 100hp of damage - which sucks when compared to my Sorceror
firing level 20 fireballs do on average around 1000 hits of damage !
Edward
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> Edward Kenworthy
> \|/ ____ \|/ ekenw...@cix.compulink.co.uk
> ~@-/ oO \-@~
> /_( \__/ )_\ Senior Consultant
> \__U_/ SELECT Software Tools PLC
> Neener, neener, neener.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> DO NOT SEND ME JUNK MAIL !
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> the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)(1)(C), it is
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> Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is
> punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever
> is greater, for each violation.">
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Edward Kenworthy
> You need to build up your fireball spell.
Duh ! No really ? I think you'll find his point is if you're going to use
Magic to win then play a sorceror and don't bother with the Rogue.
> That's without enhancement. Normally, I carry an Archangel's staff of
Haste
> which raises all my spells 2 levels. With that the stats are:
>
> Fireball (Level 17) mana:10 damage:475-751
You must suck - *my* level 17 fireball does just under 1000 hits. :)
Damage from spells seems to vary by level as well. (I'm playing a 38th
level sorceror with Fireball maxed and at level 18 I do 1175 hits of
damage where as my friend who is also maxed but is only level 30 only
does 1045 hits of damage with his level 18 fireball. And he has higher
mana and magic than I do.)
>
> I would assme that the above player has something like Naj's Light
Plate
> and/or a Thinking Cap to raise it a couple more levels. In that case,
I
> could see the spell doing 1000 damage.
>
See above. :)
Edward
LWeirath
Sickboy-
I agree about the rogue doing damage from far-off. I'm not as confident
or skilled as a warrior, because the hand-to-hand stuff really isn't my
thing. And I don't like the mage because of that immunity to magic thing.
Although I'd be willing to play a mage once I kill Diablo as a rogue. . .
~LW
Celestine the Rogue, Falconer the Warrior, on b.net
GUI TERENCE ANG
On 10 Mar 1997, Allen wrote:
>
> Now I know some high level rogues can do like 100-200 points of damage per
> arrow, to which I say "big deal", my sorcerer can do 1000 points of damage
> per fireball and a few chain lightning spells can clear out a whole room.
Yes, but this would be 100-200 points of ranged damage to ALL creatures.
Unless you cheat, a fighter will be doing the same amount of damage but
only in close range - isn't this better? I suppose you also use chain
lightning and fireball on Hell/Hell? Creatures with multiple immunities
will be pretty tough for mages, unless of course you've got that hacked
255 charge AA Apocalypse staff, which doesn't count. Maybe you could get
a 70 charge bountiful staff.
And if a mage (as you suggested) can use sword/shield, then a rogue can't
be much worse at using these equipment, added to that somewhat better
casting abilities than a warrior.
It is also refreshing, if after you've played a warrior for awhile, to
pick off the Succubus with a few shots for the other side of the screen
without having to chase them around all over the place, esp. in the higher
hell difficulties. It would be kind of difficult to get a warrior to
spell levels higher than 10/11 honestly.
TAG
Mall
Layne wrote:
>
> Hmmm i have the same curiosity there....I have finally gotten my Mages(31)
> fireball spell to level 15 and it's top damage is 590 or 593 but not near
> 1k and it goes up to around 700 with spell enhancing staves......
>
> I would reallly like to know the way it's done....the fireball is pretty
> dangerous now i would love to see it and 1k =-)
>
fireball's max damage went from 600 to 623 when he made it to lvl 34. I
posted a question in this NG for anyone who knows how the sorcerors
level affects spell efficiency. I guess if you get high enough you
could get your fireball up around 1K, :) my sorceror is looking forward
to that!
Si|vestari lvl 34 Sorceror
*****************************************************
"No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the
shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style."
Steven Brust, "Jhereg"
*****************************************************
Silverlock
On Mon, 10 Mar 1997 23:41:51 GMT, ban...@whidbey.net (D.D. Johnston)
wrote:
>On 10 Mar 1997 16:24:55 -0600, all...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (Allen)
>wrote:
>
><clip>
>>
>>Now I know some high level rogues can do like 100-200 points of damage per
>>arrow, to which I say "big deal", my sorcerer can do 1000 points of damage
>>per fireball and a few chain lightning spells can clear out a whole room.
>>
>I've just gotta ask! How did you get a mage with a 1000 point
>Fireball? I'm running a Level 34 mage on solo multiplayer, hell
>difficulty level, and my Fireball spell is at level 5 and only does
>128 - 193 points of damage. How did you manage it?
>
>ddj
How the heck did you get to lev 34 with a lev 5 Fireball spell?
Thats insane! Go immediately to the cats and wander and wander till
you get to at least level 10.
--
Silverlock
Household Pests? The SW-404 'SpitFire' APRL cleansing system
will remove them, we Guarantee IT! Not responsible for damage
to persons or structures from use of this product.
Dial 1-800-FRY-THEM for info and a home demonstration.
Silverlock
On Wed, 12 Mar 1997 00:59:48 GMT, ban...@whidbey.net (D.D. Johnston)
wrote:
>On 11 Mar 1997 14:59:45 GMT, aho...@indy.net (Alan A. Hobson) wrote:
>
>>In article <33249b27...@news.whidbey.com>, ban...@whidbey.net says...
>>>
>
>>>I've just gotta ask! How did you get a mage with a 1000 point
>>>Fireball? I'm running a Level 34 mage on solo multiplayer, hell
>>>difficulty level, and my Fireball spell is at level 5 and only does
>>>128 - 193 points of damage. How did you manage it?
>>>
>>>ddj
>>
>> You need to build up your fireball spell. It's one of the most useful in the
>>game. Unless the monster is immune, you can kill just about anything with 1-3
>>high level fireballs. The stats on my level 32 mage's fireball are:
>>
>>Fireball (Level 15) mana:10 damage:376-594
>>
>
>
>But how did you manage to get your Fireball spell up to Level 15? I
>have been in and out of the dungeons enough times to raise my mage to
>Level 34 (no cheating but damned tempted). In all that time I have
>been able to find (or buy from the witch) only five Fireball spell
>books. Where did you get all the spellbooks?
>
>
>ddj
>
For me it was the exact opposite. I got large numbers of firebolt and
fireball books but didn't get lightning till close to level 20 and
chain till level 27.
Maureen Grady
<just in general on the thread about rogues, not a response to any
specific post>
I have a bit of experience in this with a level 40 mage (hopefully
going to hit level 41 this millenia) and a level 32 rogue.
((((( I also have a level 24 warrior but don't tell anybody please.
(-: )))))
The Rogue is clearly an inbetween character. I think that is pretty
cool. In the early game- there is absolutely no question whatsoever
that the Warrior is boss. I can dead start level 1 a warrior to level
12 about 5 times faster than a mage. At least 3 times faster than a
Rogue.
The Mage is an end game char. While I freely admit that a level 40
Rogue with a great bow can beat me 3 out of 5 in a fair duel (because
of pinning), it is simply no contest in terms of power in the
underground against monsters. The only possible exception would be
Hell/Hell levels 15 and 16 with Immune All creatures. But, I have a
beautiful Bountiful Staff of Apoc with 33 charges so I'm still doing
just fine. I'll clear hell/hell faster with my lvl 40 Mage than you
can with a lvl 40 Rogue (assuming you're not using some
"hacked-make-me-god" stuff).
The Rogue is very good from day one until third dot. While she never
excels, she never feels overwhelmed. True, my lvl 32 rogue has not
done hell/hell yet, but I know it well enough to guess at how she will
do. Not as fast as the Mage, but faster than a warrior. In a certain
sense, the Rogue is the most "playable" char precisely because she is
never overwhelming, and she is never completely swamped.
The Warrior is sooo sweet in the early game! You can start running
around in the Church on day one and hacking till your hearts content.
I started my Warrior char as a "pure as snow" char. He only played
solo offline and got absolutely zero handmedowns from big chars. But
then, when he was about level 15 and working through cats- I just
couldn't take it anymore. I swear I could sue those bat things for
causing me carpal tunnel syndrome! So anyway, he got some hand me
downs from big mage brother and now is having fun and not clicking me
to death.
On the flip-side; I've started 2 new mage chars with the same "no hand
me downs- no nothing but what you find or can buy" parameters and they
were TEDIOUS at first. But now, now they are getting a little fun.
Once they get mana shield they will be a joy.
So what is the point? Not much. But I think all 3 char types offer
some different fun and frustrations. Hopefully, there will be at
least three new types in next version.
D.D. Johnston
David Michael Kass
In article <5g28u2$17...@nntp2.u.washington.edu>,
K. Laisathit <kir...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>In article <5g21nn$g...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>,
>Allen <all...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM> wrote:
>
>As for warrior. Repetitive is the word. He couldn't do squat in the
>department of range attack. This means he's got to run down every
>damn creature in the level. He is great against those swarmed
>creatures (e.g., viper), but when it comes to witches and wizards,
>it can be frustrating. Try chasing down those Hell Spawns and let
>me know if that strikes you as being enjoyable. For a rogue, no
>problem, fire away!
I've played a warrior and never had much problem with Hell Spawns. At the
lower levels, I use Fire Wall against them--it makes a great offensive
ranged attack, since there is no chance of missing. Elemental is also good
in this category (although books are a bit hard to find). At higher levels,
stone curse works great. Just curse them till you run out of mana and then
go around an thwack each one--all dead. Cornering Succubi (and the beefed
up versions) isn't hard either with a bit of experience. The teleporting
Wizards (of various types) are a tad harder, but either there's a few of
them and you just stone them one by one or there's lots and you can always
find one to hit. Remeber that with his HP, a warrior can take a lot more
damage before having to worry about things...
--
David Kass Caltech Grad Student
E-Mail: dk...@cco.caltech.edu Planetary Science
Research: dk...@venus1.gps.caltech.edu
Greg Kemmetmueller
> How do you get a mage with a 1000 point fireball? Get it up to level 15
and
> then use a combination of spell-enhancing items. My 36th level sorcerer
> with *all* honest items is outfitted as follows:
I use an AA staff of Res, Thinking Cap, and Naj's Plate. Fireball does max
damage of 1269. It's also experience-level dependant, so when you go up a
level, it goes up in damage
> -- Thinking Cap modified by a shrine to be 11/11 durability which raises
> spell levels up 2 (took me 4 nights to find 2 Hidden Shrines to do the
> trick; the first one only alters the durability from "altered durability"
> to normal durability. The second one raises it.)
That's odd. Mine still says altered durability, I visited 2 shrines, and
it's 21 max durability.
> As an interesting sidenote to fellow sorcerers, I played this character
for
> a long time like other characters regarding AC: I did everything I
> reasonably could to max AC, which isn't a bad strategy.
What amazes me is how OBCESSED people are with getting the best items. I
see level 15 characters asking to trade for godly plate and zodiac rings
(all of which are duped naturally)
> I think I've seen shields with the "of Harmony" suffix. It
> might be worth it to use one of these instead of Stormshield.
I've seen amulets, rings, helms and plates, I don't recall seeing a shield.
> Oh, and his resistance
> is maxed due to the unique's he's wearing and an Obsidian Ring of the
> Zodiac (+34% resist all, +19 all stats) I found a couple of nights ago on
> level 15 in a chest of all places.
Wow, someone who actually FOUND an obsidian zodiac ring. I can tell it's
not the duped one cause the duped one is +37% res all and +20 all. I found
a demonspike coat once in a chest on level 13 normal, and then found it
again on level 15 from Laz. :)
Mark Asher
Heh -- it was pretty exciting to find that obsidian zodiac item. The only
other zodiac item I've found was a +16 all amulet. Not nearly as exciting.
A guy that plays in our group found a very nice sorcerer's item -- Dragon's
Amulet of the Zodiac. It's got a very nice mana boost that's somewhere
around +60 mana and is also +20 all stats. I think this boosts his mana by
about 100 pts. I found a Drake's Ring of Wizadry last night. I think it is
+30 something mana and +29 magic, so it boosts my mana by about 90 pts.
It's fun treasure hunting.
Mark Asher
Greg Kemmetmueller <sy...@ph116b.res-hall.gac.edu> wrote in article
snip
Maureen Grady
ban...@whidbey.net (D.D. Johnston) wrote:
>But how did you manage to get your Fireball spell up to Level 15? I
>have been in and out of the dungeons enough times to raise my mage to
>Level 34 (no cheating but damned tempted). In all that time I have
>been able to find (or buy from the witch) only five Fireball spell
>books. Where did you get all the spellbooks?
You either must have the worst luck in the world or are doing
something terribly wrong. Fireball books are not all that rare. Are
you sure you are checking with Adria EVERY single time you go to town?
Do you always hoard some money to buy books when she offers?
If the answer to either of those is "no" then that is probably your
problem. If both are "yes" then you truly do have some terrible luck
when it comes to books.
dszt...@dk-online.dk
>
>It seems to me that the rogue is the least attractive character (from a
>playability perspective) to run in Diablo.
>
>Why? Cause she can't hold a shield. If I want to fight close in I'll run
>a fighter, carry my sword and shield and hack away. If I want range
>attacks I'll run a sorcerer, carry my sword and shield, and cast spells.
>
>The rogue seems to be the "worst" of both worlds. She isn't as good as a
>figher in close in combat, and she isn't as good as a sorcerer at range
>attacks, and she cannot use a shield if she wants to use a bow.
>
>And shields are most helpful with all the bonuses and resistances they can
>provide. I just can't see the point of having a weaker character (one
>without a shield) that is only good at weaker range attacks (arrows vs
>spells).
>
>Now I know some high level rogues can do like 100-200 points of damage per
>arrow, to which I say "big deal", my sorcerer can do 1000 points of damage
>per fireball and a few chain lightning spells can clear out a whole room.
>
>Anyway, I was wondering if there was something I was missing on the
>beauty of running a rogue character, if someone has a preference on why
>they like rogues.
>
>Later...
>
>Allen
First of all the rouge hits easier, because she can reach above 250 in
dex, also this speed affects the armor class. Also the rouge, if You
haven't noticed is CONSIDERABLY faster with a bow than any onther
class, so if a rouge can get off say 6 arrows in the time it takes
Your sorcerror to fore one fireball, i'd say it's about even money....
Also, the rouge pays far less mana for casting a spell than any other
char in the game (at least until level 25 or so....) So overall I'd
say the rouge is as good a choice as both warrior or sorcerror. In my
opinion it just depends on what kind of person You are, some Likes to
be able to just fire arrows wildly into the dark hoping to hit
something.... And with a bow, You don't pay mana.....
Cheers
David Sugar
In article <01bc2b9a$b7c48980$679edaa5@marka>,
Mark Asher <ma...@impacttech.com> wrote:
>
>As an interesting sidenote to fellow sorcerers, I played this character for
>a long time like other characters regarding AC: I did everything I
>that as long as I didn't melee (get swarmed), I could probably get by with
>less. That's where Naj's Plate comes in. It has no strength requirements.
>This allowed me to juggle rings and amulets to boost mana rather than the
>strength needed to wear heavy plate armor. The net result is I have a
>sorcerer with level 19 spells and 854 mana points. I just use teleport to
>get out of trouble. I'm thinking of perhaps using a different shield at
>some point also. I think I've seen shields with the "of Harmony" suffix. It
>might be worth it to use one of these instead of Stormshield. I might stand
>is maxed due to the unique's he's wearing and an Obsidian Ring of the
>Zodiac (+34% resist all, +19 all stats) I found a couple of nights ago on
>level 15 in a chest of all places.
>
I believe that AC is very important to all characters. While I might
sacrifice some AC for something important (like higher resistence), I would
not sacrifice a lot of AC for 1 extra spell level. My high level sorceror
already can do ENORMOUS amounts of damage, one more level is not going
to help that much. But, an extra 50 AC means the difference between
life and death when a large group of Vipers, or Hell Maws catch you offguard
in hell.
My sorceror almost never dies. The only time he dies is if too many
melee monsters get next to him, and he can't run or cast any spells.
High AC is a very good preventative measure for this.
David, aka Nostrodamus, L36 sorceror, with 3 dots.
Greg Kemmetmueller
> I suppose you also use chain
> lightning and fireball on Hell/Hell? Creatures with multiple immunities
> will be pretty tough for mages,
It's not that hard. Use Stone Curse and Golem. That's just against the
Soul Burners and Advocates, of course. All the others die just as
easily...
> unless of course you've got that hacked
> 255 charge AA Apocalypse staff, which doesn't count. Maybe you could get
> a 70 charge bountiful staff.
Bountiful only goes up to 36, legitimately, for Apocalypse.
> And if a mage (as you suggested) can use sword/shield, then a rogue can't
> be much worse at using these equipment, added to that somewhat better
> casting abilities than a warrior.
I used to use a King's Battle Axe of Speed, but even with the "faster
attack," my attack was slower than with a staff. I've given up on trying
to find a good attack so I can kill resist all monsters. I just go into
nightmare and rack up just as much xp in less time, since everything there
can be hurt by something...
It's worked for me, and I'm up to level 43 so far. :)
Greg Kemmetmueller
> On the flip-side; I've started 2 new mage chars with the same "no hand
> me downs- no nothing but what you find or can buy" parameters and they
> were TEDIOUS at first. But now, now they are getting a little fun.
> Once they get mana shield they will be a joy.
Actually, I think I'm the flip side. I'm preparing a level 1 mage, and
have given him an Arch-Angel's staff of Town Portal, a Thinking Cap, Naj's
Light Plate, and a ton of elixers and books. I just hink it's hilarious
when a level 1 sorcerer has a level 9 fireball. :)
Greg Kemmetmueller
> I recently (today) noticed that my (lvl 33) sorcerors (lvl 15)
> fireball's max damage went from 600 to 623 when he made it to lvl 34. I
> posted a question in this NG for anyone who knows how the sorcerors
> level affects spell efficiency. I guess if you get high enough you
> could get your fireball up around 1K, :) my sorceror is looking forward
> to that!
Level 43 sorcerer's level 20 fireball does 913-1288 damage. >:)
Greg Kemmetmueller
> Also the rouge, if You
> haven't noticed is CONSIDERABLY faster with a bow than any onther
> class, so if a rouge can get off say 6 arrows in the time it takes
> Your sorcerror to fore one fireball, i'd say it's about even money....
I can fire even rate with a rogue. If you haven't noticed, spells take
less time to cast as their levels go up. Sure, a level 1 fireball may take
the time of 6 arrows to cast, but I've got level 20, not level 1. :)
> Also, the rouge pays far less mana for casting a spell than any other
> char in the game (at least until level 25 or so....)
Where did you get this idea from? Mana cost per spell, if given equivalent
magic and spell level, is the same.
> So overall I'd
> say the rouge is as good a choice as both warrior or sorcerror.
I think it's more for the indecisive person. They can't decide which class
to play.
> some Likes to
> be able to just fire arrows wildly into the dark hoping to hit
> something....
Flame Wave and Chain Lightning. What's your point?
> And with a bow, You don't pay mana.....
I've got 750 mana. Fireball takes 10. I can fire 75 fireballs before
having to refill my mana. In the time it takes to fire 75 of anything, the
monster's going to be dead, or have reached you.
But like you said, it's all personal choice. I just prefer the ability to
do a maximum of over 1300 damage (fireball does 1288 fire damage, plus the
area affect damage, to any monster it hits) :) It's hilarious to see
normal Diablo die in 2 or 3 hits. >:)
Daniel Ban
On Wed, 12 Mar 1997 00:53:30 GMT, dszt...@dk-online.dk wrote:
>>
>>It seems to me that the rogue is the least attractive character (from a
>>playability perspective) to run in Diablo.
>>
>>Why? Cause she can't hold a shield. If I want to fight close in I'll run
>>a fighter, carry my sword and shield and hack away. If I want range
>>attacks I'll run a sorcerer, carry my sword and shield, and cast spells.
>>
>>The rogue seems to be the "worst" of both worlds. She isn't as good as a
>>figher in close in combat, and she isn't as good as a sorcerer at range
>>attacks, and she cannot use a shield if she wants to use a bow.
>>
>>And shields are most helpful with all the bonuses and resistances they can
>>provide. I just can't see the point of having a weaker character (one
>>without a shield) that is only good at weaker range attacks (arrows vs
>>spells).
>>
>>Now I know some high level rogues can do like 100-200 points of damage per
>>arrow, to which I say "big deal", my sorcerer can do 1000 points of damage
>>per fireball and a few chain lightning spells can clear out a whole room.
>>
>>Anyway, I was wondering if there was something I was missing on the
>>beauty of running a rogue character, if someone has a preference on why
>>they like rogues.
>>
Unfortunately, as much as I like to play a rogue, I have to agree that
the rogue is BY FAR the weakest character above level 25 or so. Why?
Because the rogue has limited offense AND the weakest defense in this
game. Most of the posts in this thread have dealt with rogue offense
(how to get your dmg up, stressing the fast firing rate of rouges,
etc) - As for dmg, because STR gives a higher dmg bonus to hand
weapons than DEX does to bows, and because most hand weapons have
higher base dmg than equiv bows, a warrior will always hit for more
dmg. Of course a mage hits for MUCH more dmg than either class with
any of several spells (chain, fireball, elemental, etc). The rogue
does shoot faster than a fighter swings (until the fighter gets HASTE)
so rogue and fighter do similar total dmg in my view.
However, the rogue is at a serious disadvantage in another department:
DEFENSE. The rogue has the lowest AC and the lowest hit points of any
character, BY FAR. This last point has been completely overlooked in
this thread. A decent high level warrior can get hit points to 400+
fairly easily b/c his Life gives him more hits (2) per point than a
rogue (about 1.3 it seems to me). Also a fighter carries a shield and
most fighters I see have shields of the tiger or lion. A mage with
mana shield of course has the highest hit points in the game (most
high level mages have 700+ mana). So what if spells drain the mana
shield? The issue is how much defense you get from a full mana/full
heal potion. A high level rogue with no duped stuff will max out at
around 250 hit points, 300 if you really try. This just doesnt
compare to fighter or mage. Finally, b/c of no shield, a rogue
doesn't get to use a shield. True max dex gives a rogue +50 AC but
max fighter dex gives him +12 AC and max mage dex gives him +17 AC.
So the rogue only gains +33 or +38 AC from dex compared to others. It
is quite normal at high levels to carry shields with higher AC than
that (my fighter has a shield 47 AC, +54 hit points, and my mage has a
shield +54 AC). Finally, the lack of a shield deprives the rogue of
two slots for magic adjectives and a good adjective like emerald or
lion can go a long way :).
No matter how you slice it, an end stage rogue has the weakest offense
and BY FAR the weakest defense (and a mage is by far the most
powerful). I really enjoy rogues but I do feel that Blizzard shorted
her in the end-game power curve.
Li...@anon.a.mouse
There is a balance between AC and mana. I use several items that
increase mana or spell level, but I take care to make sure that my AC
stays up.
A mage with Mana Shield has effectivly raised his HP. If you have a
poor AC, you will take too many hits and your mana decreases too fast
in hell/hell to have a chance. I believe that t is best to balance
the AC/mana question to allow the best of both worlds without the
dangers of either.
When evaluating resistances, it's important to remember that the max
is 75%. I wear a +37% resist ring and a +36 resist amulet. this
gives 73 resist. This is only 2% below max and I use the third
slot(ring2) to boost magic. Having a third +37% resist is virtaully
useless as it only provides a 2% increase.
the benefit of using Zodiac items instead f items that help a single
stat are simple:
Single stat raisers:
Amulet : +50 magic +60 mana
Ring1: +30 strength
Ring2: +30 strength or dex
Zodiacs:
Amulet: Raises all by +20
Ring1: Raises all by +19
Ring2: Raises all by +20
End Results (Single method)
STR +60
MAGIC +50
MANA +160 (+60 from the amulet and +100 from the magic raise on a
sorcerer)
End Results (Zodiac)
STR +59
MAGIC +59
DEX +59
VITALITY +59
MANA +118 (59X2)
LIFE +59 to 118(varies with class)
-Sigfreid, lvl46.
Armor: GPOW
Weapon: AA of Apoc or dreamFlange
Shield: Godly shield of the wolf
Amulet: Ob Am of Zod
Ring1: Ob ring of Zod
Ring2: Dragon ring of Zod (+40 or so to magic)
Mark Asher
Well, if you hit an Enchanted Shrine all spell levels are raised up one
with the exception of a random spell that is downgraded one level. Do that
a couple of times. I think I just found or bought enought Fireball books.
It's random. You've just been rolling snake-eyes.
Mark Asher
D.D. Johnston <ban...@whidbey.net> wrote in article
<3325ff18...@news.whidbey.com>...
Maureen Grady
dan...@ix.netcom.com (Daniel Ban) wrote:
Just a couple comments:
>However, the rogue is at a serious disadvantage in another department:
>DEFENSE. The rogue has the lowest AC and the lowest hit points of any
>character, BY FAR. This last point has been completely overlooked in
>this thread. A decent high level warrior can get hit points to 400+
>fairly easily b/c his Life gives him more hits (2) per point than a
>rogue (about 1.3 it seems to me). Also a fighter carries a shield and
>most fighters I see have shields of the tiger or lion. A mage with
>mana shield of course has the highest hit points in the game (most
>high level mages have 700+ mana). So what if spells drain the mana
>shield? The issue is how much defense you get from a full mana/full
>heal potion. A high level rogue with no duped stuff will max out at
>around 250 hit points, 300 if you really try. This just doesnt
>compare to fighter or mage.
Personally, I wouldn't dream of letting my Rogue run around without
her mana shield. True, it's nowhere near what my mage has but then
she doesn't need to use the mana for offense nearly as much as the
mage, and she has more regular life hitpoints in reserve should she
ever drop the mana shield.
> Finally, b/c of no shield, a rogue
>doesn't get to use a shield. True max dex gives a rogue +50 AC but
>max fighter dex gives him +12 AC and max mage dex gives him +17 AC.
>So the rogue only gains +33 or +38 AC from dex compared to others. It
>is quite normal at high levels to carry shields with higher AC than
>that (my fighter has a shield 47 AC, +54 hit points, and my mage has a
>shield +54 AC). Finally, the lack of a shield deprives the rogue of
>two slots for magic adjectives and a good adjective like emerald or
>lion can go a long way :).
I think the lack of two modifiers is the only really strong argument.
However, this is also true for a "true mage" who eschews sword/shield
for a staff. And if a Rogue really wants to, she's going to be better
with a sword/shield than a mage is.
>No matter how you slice it, an end stage rogue has the weakest offense
>and BY FAR the weakest defense (and a mage is by far the most
>powerful). I really enjoy rogues but I do feel that Blizzard shorted
>her in the end-game power curve.
I disagree with the "BY FAR" part. I think, that for the way I play,
my Rogue has nearly as good of defense as my mage.
Jim Wesolowski
Maureen Grady wrote:
> I think the lack of two modifiers is the only really strong argument.
> However, this is also true for a "true mage" who eschews sword/shield
> for a staff. And if a Rogue really wants to, she's going to be better
> with a sword/shield than a mage is.
A true mage wields DreamFlange and a good sheild. The only staff might
remotely be worth giving up the shield for is the hacked Arch-Angel's
staff of the Apocalypse with 255 charges.
A legit AA staff of Apoc has 12 charges max. This is not worth losing
a shield over.
I refuse to use hacked items.
Paul Masters
Jim Wesolowski wrote:
Ken Fishkin wrote:
> yeah, but she can shoot a nearly infinite number of arrows from
> her bow, while the mage runs out of mana. Also, while many
creatures
> are immune to various types of spells, nobody is immune to
> arrow fire.
>
> overall i agree that the mage is better, but the rogue isn't
> so bad.
Two points.
1) The rogue does occasionally have to repair her bow unless she
has an indestructable one. So, the number of arrows is not
infinite.
Any Rogue worth her salt has an indestructable bow. Can't imagine
playing for long without one (all I looked for after I reached above
25).
D.D. Johnston
On Wed, 12 Mar 1997 12:28:28 GMT, q...@mindspring.com (Maureen Grady)
wrote:
>ban...@whidbey.net (D.D. Johnston) wrote:
>
>>But how did you manage to get your Fireball spell up to Level 15? I
>>have been in and out of the dungeons enough times to raise my mage to
>>Level 34 (no cheating but damned tempted). In all that time I have
>>been able to find (or buy from the witch) only five Fireball spell
>>books. Where did you get all the spellbooks?
>
>
>You either must have the worst luck in the world or are doing
>something terribly wrong. Fireball books are not all that rare. Are
>you sure you are checking with Adria EVERY single time you go to town?
>Do you always hoard some money to buy books when she offers?
>
>If the answer to either of those is "no" then that is probably your
>problem. If both are "yes" then you truly do have some terrible luck
>when it comes to books.
>
>
The answer to both is "yes". I can find FireBOLT spell books just
about around every corner but cannot find any of the more powerful
Fireball books.
The problem may be that all of the books I need are at lower levels. I
am playing in the hell difficulty level and find that I cannot survive
for long in the caves. So I have been tromping around the church and
the catacombs for almost a month now. I've lost count of how many
times I've killed the Butcher and the Skeleton King and some of the
minor bosses. This has given me a lot of experience points but still
no high level spells. But adventuring into the caves is almost instant
"Restart in Town".
Perhaps I should swallow a bit of pride and reduce the difficulty
level. They maybe I can get on with the game. Sigh!
ddj
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Mall
Ken Fishkin wrote:
>
> Allen wrote:
> >
> > It seems to me that the rogue is the least attractive character (from a
> > playability perspective) to run in Diablo.
> >
> > figher in close in combat, and she isn't as good as a sorcerer at range
> > attacks, and she cannot use a shield if she wants to use a bow.
>
> her bow, while the mage runs out of mana. Also, while many creatures
> are immune to various types of spells, nobody is immune to
> arrow fire.
Well, I haven't seen too many creatures who could stand up to fireball
AND chain lightning, and my sorceror with 850 mana, with my belt full of
full mana potions, effictively has 6,800 mana points, thats 680
fireballs or about 350 chain lightnings...
>
> overall i agree that the mage is better, but the rogue isn't
> so bad.
>
I agree. The sorceror is by far the most powerful (after you get him up
in lvls and spells) but the rogue is a lot of fun to play, IMHO you have
to play em all.
coop...@algonquinc.on.ca
>>>It seems to me that the rogue is the least attractive character (from a
>>>playability perspective) to run in Diablo.
>>>
>>>
>>>Anyway, I was wondering if there was something I was missing on the
>>>beauty of running a rogue character, if someone has a preference on why
>>>they like rogues.
>>>
>Unfortunately, as much as I like to play a rogue, I have to agree that
>the rogue is BY FAR the weakest character above level 25 or so. Why?
>Because the rogue has limited offense AND the weakest defense in this
>game.
<snip>
I Agree with you on the limitations of the rogue. However, these
limitations have only helped me to enjoy rogue play more.
Each character class appeals to different people regardless of its
technical advantages and disadvantages.
Rogue = a like of teamwork / tactics
Warrior = a like of killing things
Mage = a like of nursing a wimp into an all powerfull character
The Rogue appeals to me, as I must rely on simple tactics to take out
badasses. Teleporting into a room and chain-lightening the room to
oblivion sounds like fun, but picking off advocates and succumbi is a
sport Warriors and Mages just can't seem to effectivley master.
PS. I enjoy playing torro with those horned deamons... I once found a
level that was entirely composed of 'em. I wish I had a mplayer save
game option!
Allen
>I can find FireBOLT spell books just
>about around every corner but cannot find any of the more powerful
>Fireball books.
>
>The problem may be that all of the books I need are at lower levels. I
>am playing in the hell difficulty level and find that I cannot survive
>for long in the caves. So I have been tromping around the church and
>the catacombs for almost a month now. I've lost count of how many
>times I've killed the Butcher and the Skeleton King and some of the
>minor bosses. This has given me a lot of experience points but still
>no high level spells. But adventuring into the caves is almost instant
>"Restart in Town".
Here's what I did. First of all save up 20000 gold (at least). Then
repeatedly start Local IPX games and go visit the witch. Keep going until
she sells you a Teleport book. After you learn teleport, go to the
catacombs and TP all over the place, looking for Enchanted Shrines. Each
time you visit this shrine one spell goes down a level but all the others
go up a level. With teleport you can bounce around an entire level in a
minute or two, looking for enchanted shrines.
And of course, get alot of gold and start new games until you find more
fireball (or chain lightning, another awesome spell) books.
Have fun...
Allen "Telecaster"
Allen
>I think the lack of two modifiers is the only really strong argument.
>However, this is also true for a "true mage" who eschews sword/shield
>for a staff. And if a Rogue really wants to, she's going to be better
>with a sword/shield than a mage is.
Well, in Diablo its kinda foolish to be a "true mage" and carry a staff
cause most of the staffs suck compared to the benefits of carrying a nice
sword and shield. I agree it doesn't fit the D&D mold of mages, but its
how Blizzard designed the game. With my Lvl 35 Mage, I can carry a nice
sword and shield and get all kinds of bunuses and resistances, and still
be able to kill everything in sight with my spells, but a Rogue with a
sword and shield will still be weak on offense. And with a bow, she'll
always be low on defense.
All that being said (I started this thread btw), I'm gonna enjoy running a
multiplay Rogue for the first time. First of all I'll always be playing
with friends of mine, so they can do the spells and hacking for a change.
Secondly, it'll be something different. Third, I like the idea that I can
plunge steel into any monster, no matter what its resistances are,
especially after I can get the To Hit percentage way up there. And
fourth, it'll be a challenge at the higher levels, so that will keep the
game interesting longer.
Later ya'll...
Allen "Telecaster"
Brian Dunkle
In article <01bc2c50$2076e580$679edaa5@marka>,
Mark Asher <ma...@impacttech.com> wrote:
>Heh -- it was pretty exciting to find that obsidian zodiac item. The only
>other zodiac item I've found was a +16 all amulet. Not nearly as exciting.
Yeah, likewise. :)
>A guy that plays in our group found a very nice sorcerer's item -- Dragon's
>Amulet of the Zodiac. It's got a very nice mana boost that's somewhere
>around +60 mana and is also +20 all stats. I think this boosts his mana by
>about 100 pts. I found a Drake's Ring of Wizadry last night. I think it is
>+30 something mana and +29 magic, so it boosts my mana by about 90 pts.
>It's fun treasure hunting.
Yeah. Main reason I asked my question about harmony and wizards
was because I found a drake's (+50? or 30) ring of harmony, which seemed
pretty valuable, unless you're like me and the harmony does nothing. :/
--
* Brian Dunkle * Ummmmmmm...huh?
* bdu...@biocom.arizona.edu http://www.biocom.arizona.edu/~bdunkle
*
* "tedious and loathesome by turns" - someone describing my posts in ratmm
Scott Tatum
<SNIP>
>
>Single stat raisers:
> Amulet : +50 magic +60 mana
How did you get an amulet of +50 ? I thought they were like rings and
only went up to 30 ?
> Ring1: +30 strength
> Ring2: +30 strength or dex
>
>Zodiacs:
> Amulet: Raises all by +20
> Ring1: Raises all by +19
> Ring2: Raises all by +20
>2
Maureen Grady
ban...@whidbey.net (D.D. Johnston) wrote:
>The answer to both is "yes". I can find FireBOLT spell books just
>about around every corner but cannot find any of the more powerful
>Fireball books.
>The problem may be that all of the books I need are at lower levels. I
>am playing in the hell difficulty level and find that I cannot survive
>for long in the caves. So I have been tromping around the church and
>the catacombs for almost a month now. I've lost count of how many
>times I've killed the Butcher and the Skeleton King and some of the
>minor bosses. This has given me a lot of experience points but still
>no high level spells. But adventuring into the caves is almost instant
>"Restart in Town".
>Perhaps I should swallow a bit of pride and reduce the difficulty
>level. They maybe I can get on with the game. Sigh!
By all means! Play Nightmare mode.
Also, you must have terrible shrine luck if you've played that much in
church/cats and haven't found quite a few Enchanted shrines.
Still, I can't believe Adria doesn't offer you Fireball regularly.
Well I can believe it- it's just random luck, but very unfortunate it
for you. )-;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
ben
>>But how did you manage to get your Fireball spell up to Level 15? I
>>have been in and out of the dungeons enough times to raise my mage to
>>Level 34 (no cheating but damned tempted). In all that time I have
>>been able to find (or buy from the witch) only five Fireball spell
>>books. Where did you get all the spellbooks?
>
>
>You either must have the worst luck in the world or are doing
>something terribly wrong. Fireball books are not all that rare. Are
>you sure you are checking with Adria EVERY single time you go to town?
>Do you always hoard some money to buy books when she offers?
>
>If the answer to either of those is "no" then that is probably your
>problem. If both are "yes" then you truly do have some terrible luck
>when it comes to books.
They are not that common. I think my fireball is only up to level 10
(level 34 mage too) but that's because I hit a few shrines. At one
time my "flash" spell was at level 0 with the caption "unusable"
hehehe. I thought the shrine picked an appropiate spell to decrement
from. ..and yes to both questions, usually have 170k on me nowadays.
Greg Kemmetmueller
> But, an extra 50 AC means the difference between
> life and death when a large group of Vipers, or Hell Maws catch you
offguard
> in hell.
Solution: Infravision Scrolls, and being careful.
> David, aka Nostrodamus, L36 sorceror, with 3 dots.
Fire_Made_Flesh, Level 43 sorc, 3 dots, 73 AC, and a 1288 max damage
fireball :)
Greg Kemmetmueller
> Single stat raisers:
> Amulet : +50 magic +60 mana
Is this right? Cause there's no item that raises a single stat by 50
legitimately....
> -Sigfreid, lvl46.
> Armor: GPOW
> Weapon: AA of Apoc or dreamFlange
> Shield: Godly shield of the wolf
> Amulet: Ob Am of Zod
> Ring1: Ob ring of Zod
> Ring2: Dragon ring of Zod (+40 or so to magic)
And how much of that did you find yourself, and therefore know it's not
duped?
Greg Kemmetmueller
> A true mage wields DreamFlange and a good sheild.
Really? Geez, that's so depressing. I wish someone woulds told me over
250 million experience ago that I was a fake mage... :)
> The only staff might
> remotely be worth giving up the shield for is the hacked Arch-Angel's
> staff of the Apocalypse with 255 charges.
It all depends on playing style. If you pansie out and actually conserve
mana, sure, monsters are going to reach you, and you'll need armor. Or
course, if you really let loose, you can blast everything to pieces before
it reaches you. AC 5, or AC 5,000,000,000,000, does it really matter if
nothing survives long enough to even start swinging at you?
> A legit AA staff of Apoc has 12 charges max. This is not worth losing
> a shield over.
No, it really isn't, is it? That's why I use an Arch-Angel's staff of
Resurrect. All those stupid warrior's who charge in, and the rogues who
haven't learned that chain lightning is something to avoid, make me use my
staff quite a bit.
Basically, what it all comes down to is playing style. If you play better
using the Dreamflange and a shield, well then, by all means, keep using
them! Different Players play differently, which is why there's lots of
available items. I've learned to play with minimal AC and powerful spells.
In fact, i've gotten rather good at it. It all really doesn't matter,
does it? I mean, in the end, it IS just a game...
> I refuse to use hacked items.
That's good. Lots of people say that. Do you use duped items? If you've
traded with anyone on battle.net, odds are that you do. It's a sad fact,
but sadder still is the amount of people who profess "It's a real item, I
traded for it!"
Scott Tatum
On Thu, 13 Mar 1997 01:06:39 GMT, tsc...@athene.co.uk (Scott Tatum)
wrote:
><SNIP>
>>
>>Single stat raisers:
>> Amulet : +50 magic +60 mana
>
>How did you get an amulet of +50 ? I thought they were like rings and
>only went up to 30 ?
>
>> Ring1: +30 strength
>> Ring2: +30 strength or dex
>>
>>Zodiacs:
>> Amulet: Raises all by +20
>> Ring1: Raises all by +19
>> Ring2: Raises all by +20
>>2
>>End Results (Single method)
>> STR +60
>> MAGIC +50
>> MANA +160 (+60 from the amulet and +100 from the magic raise on a
>> sorcerer)
>>
>>End Results (Zodiac)
>> STR +59
>> MAGIC +59
>> DEX +59
>> VITALITY +59
>> MANA +118 (59X2)
>> LIFE +59 to 118(varies with class)
>>
>>-Sigfreid, lvl46.
>>Armor: GPOW
>>Weapon: AA of Apoc or dreamFlange
>>Shield: Godly shield of the wolf
>>Amulet: Ob Am of Zod
>>Ring1: Ob ring of Zod
>>Ring2: Dragon ring of Zod (+40 or so to magic)
Another thing, I thought it was blahblah ring of the dragon ? Another
hacked item ?
>>
>>
>
Arkady Zilberberg
Back to the original subject:
I'm not sure what do you mean by "suck" but for me rogue is the most enjoyable
character in the game. Did you try to fight Fire Clan with bows in catacombs
with warrior? I did. Annoying to say the least. You try to charge them and
they run away (and lead you into crossfire of some 8-15 of their likes). You
go back and they chase you but the second you head to them they start fleeing
WITH THE SAME SPEED AS YOU! You try to Firewall them and your mana ends after
the first or second firewall. On the other hand, my Rogue finishes them in
seconds. Of course, there are creatures that are best fought with
Warrior/Sorcerer. What I tried to say is that there are pros and cons for
all three classes.
Regards,
--
Arkady Zilberberg, ark...@nsi.co.il
Mall
Allen wrote:
>
> Well, in Diablo its kinda foolish to be a "true mage" and carry a staff
> cause most of the staffs suck compared to the benefits of carrying a nice
> sword and shield.
gave up sword and shield in hell and went with a AA staff for the
increased spell firepower, and it worked well (my resistances are MAX),
the majority of the ranged weapons are spells (not counting lava maws).
But taking a trip into the hell/cats those goat boys with bows tore me
up, and don't even think about letting a mud man get close to you.
> I agree it doesn't fit the D&D mold of mages, but its
> how Blizzard designed the game.
The first fantasy book I ever read was J.J.R. Tolkiens "The Hobbit".
Gandalf did not fit the AD&D mold either :)
> With my Lvl 35 Mage, I can carry a nice
> sword and shield and get all kinds of bunuses and resistances, and still
> be able to kill everything in sight with my spells,
Now I also carry a Obsidion blade of the heavens, +38/+15 and a shield
of the tiger AC 17/43 hp as well as my staff.
> but a Rogue with a
> sword and shield will still be weak on offense. And with a bow, she'll
> always be low on defense.
>
> All that being said (I started this thread btw), I'm gonna enjoy running a
> multiplay Rogue for the first time. First of all I'll always be playing
> with friends of mine, so they can do the spells and hacking for a change.
And you don't have to worry about chain lightning or putting a fireball
too close to one of them :)
> Secondly, it'll be something different. Third, I like the idea that I can
> plunge steel into any monster, no matter what its resistances are,
> especially after I can get the To Hit percentage way up there. And
> fourth, it'll be a challenge at the higher levels, so that will keep the
> game interesting longer.
I agree completely, playing a rogue is a lot of fun and it lets you
experience another dimension of the game. One thing I noticed after
playing a rogue for a while is that my sorceror was a much better aim
with his fireballs, interesting... ;-)
>
Mary_Poppins, 27th lvl rogue
Susan
>I'm not sure what do you mean by "suck" but for me rogue is the most enjoyable
>character in the game.
I agree. But after I got my first red dot and tried going on I
realized that it is Diablo that sucks. I have finished my Diablo
withdrawal and am continuing to work on other tasks and adventures
once again. :)
* Susan * <Sus...@concentric.net>
Mall
Greg Kemmetmueller wrote:
>
<SNIP>
> > A legit AA staff of Apoc has 12 charges max. This is not worth losing
> > a shield over.
>
> No, it really isn't, is it? That's why I use an Arch-Angel's staff of
> Resurrect. All those stupid warrior's who charge in, and the rogues who
> haven't learned that chain lightning is something to avoid, make me use my
> staff quite a bit.
ROTFLMAO!! Funny but too true. The hardest part of having a high level
sorceror is learning to play with other characters (or them learning to
play with you). The thing is you can't expect a warrior NOT to run into
combat or a rogue to run and hide so you can wipe out everything.
>
> > I refuse to use hacked items.
>
> That's good. Lots of people say that. Do you use duped items? If you've
> traded with anyone on battle.net, odds are that you do. It's a sad fact,
> but sadder still is the amount of people who profess "It's a real item, I
> traded for it!"
Yesterday someone offered me a dreamflange, I said "great, is it
duped?" He said "no" he "traded some armor for it". I said "be careful
where you drop it." Are people really that blind?
Greg Kemmetmueller
> Another thing, I thought it was blahblah ring of the dragon ? Another
> hacked item ?
No, A Dragon's Ring of The Heavens can be found, my friend found it the
other day. So the Dragon's part it legit.
arc...@ibm.net
On Tue, 11 Mar 1997 09:56:18 -0800, Ken Fishkin
<fis...@parc.xerox.com> wrote:
>Allen wrote:
>>
>> It seems to me that the rogue is the least attractive character (from a
>> playability perspective) to run in Diablo.
>>
>> The rogue seems to be the "worst" of both worlds. She isn't as good as a
>> figher in close in combat, and she isn't as good as a sorcerer at range
>> attacks, and she cannot use a shield if she wants to use a bow.
>
>yeah, but she can shoot a nearly infinite number of arrows from
>her bow, while the mage runs out of mana. Also, while many creatures
>are immune to various types of spells, nobody is immune to
>arrow fire.
>
>overall i agree that the mage is better, but the rogue isn't
>so bad.
>
>--
>Ken Fishkin fis...@acm.org
>http://www.parc.xerox.com/fishkin
Yes your right. To play a rogue is fun. I don't search the ultimate
warrior, most fun character I have is an lvl 31 Rogue with Items like
metoric bow of heavens, saintly mail of wolfs... Every time I play
Hell/Hell, I Risk the lost of my Items...that's fun I mean.
Do it your own way...
.
arc...@ibm.net
On Wed, 12 Mar 1997 00:38:37 GMT, q...@mindspring.com (Maureen Grady)
wrote:
>
>The Rogue is clearly an inbetween character. I think that is pretty
>cool. In the early game- there is absolutely no question whatsoever
>that the Warrior is boss. I can dead start level 1 a warrior to level
>12 about 5 times faster than a mage. At least 3 times faster than a
>Rogue.
>
Why do you think so??? I think the Rogue rules, cause in the
beginning, you will have no armor. With and Rogue you have not to go
into close combat and she will be the better mage. Remember you don't
have to hold down the shift-key all the time, and the Rogue hits
faster then Skelletons ore Demons with Bows, the Warrior has to take
them out one for one and goats want stand still.
What I have to say is, with an 1 lvl Rogue, I can go down from level 1
to level 8-9 in ONE game and then she would be lvl 12.
>
>The Rogue is very good from day one until third dot. While she never
>excels, she never feels overwhelmed. True, my lvl 32 rogue has not
>done hell/hell yet, but I know it well enough to guess at how she will
>do. Not as fast as the Mage, but faster than a warrior. In a certain
>sense, the Rogue is the most "playable" char precisely because she is
>never overwhelming, and she is never completely swamped.
>
Yes, I think too. The mage is funy to, but sometimes, I think, it's
only a question of money to kill monster, and money it's no problem in
Hell.
>
>So what is the point? Not much. But I think all 3 char types offer
>some different fun and frustrations. Hopefully, there will be at
>least three new types in next version.
>
Yes,yes, yes, and some fine weapons to (one handed axe's and thrown
weapons like the hammer of thor).
Cmdr Krud
Mall <ma...@olg.com> wrote in article <332734...@olg.com>...
> I agree. The sorceror is by far the most powerful (after you get him up
> in lvls and spells) but the rogue is a lot of fun to play, IMHO you have
> to play em all.
>
I agree. After playing all three characters I think the Sorcerer is the
most powerful and the Rogue is the most challenging. The biggest problem
with the rogue is the lack of modifiers from a shield. The windforce helps
because it knocks back monsters, but if the rogue gets swarmed she's
history (unless you have teleport).
Just for fun, try using the rogue with a sword and shield. You'll be in
for a big surprise :)
-Krud
Alan A. Hobson
In article <33253cef...@news.earthlink.net>, cro...@earthlink.net
says...
>
>On Wed, 12 Mar 1997 00:59:48 GMT, ban...@whidbey.net (D.D. Johnston)
>wrote:
>
=>On 11 Mar 1997 14:59:45 GMT, aho...@indy.net (Alan A. Hobson) wrote:
=>
=>>In article <33249b27...@news.whidbey.com>, ban...@whidbey.net says...
=>>>
=>
=>>>I've just gotta ask! How did you get a mage with a 1000 point
=>>>Fireball? I'm running a Level 34 mage on solo multiplayer, hell
=>>>difficulty level, and my Fireball spell is at level 5 and only does
=>>>128 - 193 points of damage. How did you manage it?
=>>>
=>>>ddj
=>>
=>> You need to build up your fireball spell. It's one of the most useful in
the
=>>game. Unless the monster is immune, you can kill just about anything with
1-3
=>>high level fireballs. The stats on my level 32 mage's fireball are:
=>>
=>>Fireball (Level 15) mana:10 damage:376-594
=>>
=>
=>
>>But how did you manage to get your Fireball spell up to Level 15? I
>>have been in and out of the dungeons enough times to raise my mage to
>>Level 34 (no cheating but damned tempted). In all that time I have
>>been able to find (or buy from the witch) only five Fireball spell
>>books. Where did you get all the spellbooks?
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>For me it was the exact opposite. I got large numbers of firebolt and
>fireball books but didn't get lightning till close to level 20 and
>chain till level 27.
>
>--
>Silverlock
>
My GF and I play together on our home network. Every time we go to the witch,
we check to see if there are any spellbooks that our mages aren't maxed in. If
there are, we buy them. The key is persistence. Last night, we found 6
fireball books, 4 from Adria, and 2 from Hell. We gave them to her mage.
-Alan
Alan A. Hobson
In article <5g7fv9$2...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM>, all...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM
says...
>
.>I think the lack of two modifiers is the only really strong argument.
.>However, this is also true for a "true mage" who eschews sword/shield
.>for a staff. And if a Rogue really wants to, she's going to be better
.>with a sword/shield than a mage is.
.
>Well, in Diablo its kinda foolish to be a "true mage" and carry a staff
>cause most of the staffs suck compared to the benefits of carrying a nice
>how Blizzard designed the game. With my Lvl 35 Mage, I can carry a nice
>sword and shield and get all kinds of bunuses and resistances, and still
>sword and shield will still be weak on offense. And with a bow, she'll
>always be low on defense.
>
>
>Allen "Telecaster"
My mage carries an Arch-Angels staff of Haste. I have yet to see a
sword/shield combo that I like better than the added "punch" I get by taking my
spells up 2 levels. Last night, I finally found Naj's Light Plate. Now, with
the staff, my spells max out at level 18.
Has anyone seen weapons/shields with the Arch-Angels prefix other than staffs?
-Alan
"Frobozz"
Ian
ark...@alexws.enet.dec.com (Arkady Zilberberg) wrote:
>
>Back to the original subject:
>
>I'm not sure what do you mean by "suck" but for me rogue is the most enjoyable
>character in the game. Did you try to fight Fire Clan with bows in catacombs
>with warrior? I did. Annoying to say the least. You try to charge them and
>they run away (and lead you into crossfire of some 8-15 of their likes). You
>go back and they chase you but the second you head to them they start fleeing
>WITH THE SAME SPEED AS YOU! You try to Firewall them and your mana ends after
>the first or second firewall. On the other hand, my Rogue finishes them in
>seconds. Of course, there are creatures that are best fought with
>Warrior/Sorcerer. What I tried to say is that there are pros and cons for
>all three classes.
Yeah. On single-player I just got Diablo this weekend and started playing as
a Rogue, because it seemed the best class for trashing monsters (this was
based on my impression of the first level of the dungeons, where the Rogue's
bow really does kick ass and allows you to kill every monster in the level
without being hit more than a few times).
I got this quest to cure the town't poisoned water supply, but I never found
how to fix that, so I cleared all the levels until I got into Hell itself.
Gradually the advantages of the Rogue seem to diminish more and more...
until the first level of Hell, where those mutated black knights KICK MY
ASS! I am a level 22 Rogue, but the only way I can beat three or more of
those knight fuckers is to fire like crazy at the knights, then outrun them
for a while when they close into range, until there are only one or two left
and I can go toe-to-toe. It's becoming pretty challenging, and involving a
LOT of saving and caution (and wear and tear on my bow... half my earnings
go into the not-insubstantial cost of repairing it).
Next time, I think I'll pick a sorcerer, especially since as a Rogue, I've
barely gotten my hands on any high-level (3/4) spells.
Doug McFadyen
In article <332ca5ac...@news.uwaterloo.ca>,
iadm...@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca says...
>until the first level of Hell, where those mutated black knights KICK MY
>ASS! I am a level 22 Rogue, but the only way I can beat three or more of
>those knight fuckers is to fire like crazy at the knights, then outrun them
>for a while when they close into range, until there are only one or two left
>and I can go toe-to-toe.
Your rogue *can* cast some pretty serious spells. Hell isn't that tough for a
Rogue if you use spells in cojunction with your bow. For knights, stone curse
a few of them, then just shoot the statues. Since statues don't attack you,
you can make quick work of them. Also, use teleport to "jump" out of the way
if you get surrounded, then you can pick a few of em off.
Also, good fireball spell can take out a knight in one single shot.
Buy your rouge lots of items that add plusses to your magic. Then, when you
find a spell book you can't read, wear as MUCH magic adding stuff as you can,
then read the book. Currently, I'm maxed out on magic (at 70), but I can read
any book up to a magic level of 200 by wearing TONS of magic adding stuff. If
I can find a better helm and shield, I'll get my magic to 212, then I'll be
able to read tons more books and up my spell levels even more.
Also, by increasing you STR and DEX, you'll do more damage per arrow. Keep
your eyes out for SERIOUS bows, like EagleHorn or WindForce. With these bows,
I can take out a knight in two or three shots.
I still like the Rouge, because it adds a strategic dimension to the game that
you don't get with the Warrior or Sorcerer, and I like the fact that I can take
out baddies without direct contact (from a distance).
Oh yeah, get as high a level guardian spell as you can, then cast them into a
room that you haven't explored yet. If it starts firing, wait by the door, and
pick off any baddies that come out one-by-one. If it doesn't start firing, you
can safely enter the room NEAR the guardian, then cast another guardian further
into the room.
Doug.
Jim Wesolowski
Doug McFadyen wrote:
> I still like the Rouge, because it adds a strategic dimension to the game that
> you don't get with the Warrior or Sorcerer, and I like the fact that I can take
> out baddies without direct contact (from a distance).
Ummm my level 35 sorceror can cast a level 16 fireball that does
500-700 points of damage.... if thats not "taking out baddies
without direct contact (from a distance)" then I don't know
what is.
Li...@anon.penet.pe
I'm sending all of this from work, not from home. At home I'm too
busy playing Diablo to post to newsgroups hehehe.
The item names may be off a bit, I'm working from memory.
the point was not what items I have, but rather the balancing of mana
and hit points for best effectivness.
-List
Li...@anon.penet.pe
On 13 Mar 1997 06:35:47 GMT, "Greg Kemmetmueller"
<sy...@ph116b.res-hall.gac.edu> wrote:
>> Single stat raisers:
>> Amulet : +50 magic +60 mana
>
>Is this right? Cause there's no item that raises a single stat by 50
>legitimately....
>
>> -Sigfreid, lvl46.
>> Armor: GPOW
>> Weapon: AA of Apoc or dreamFlange
>> Shield: Godly shield of the wolf
>> Amulet: Ob Am of Zod
>> Ring1: Ob ring of Zod
>> Ring2: Dragon ring of Zod (+40 or so to magic)
>
>And how much of that did you find yourself, and therefore know it's not
>duped?
>
>
Early on I was, like many, given a few items. Over time, I have
replaced EVERY ITEM I WAS EVER GIVEN with items that I have found. I
play a lot over the network in hell/hell with friends at my house. We
find quite a bit of stuff and keepo the best items.
I did check when I got home and the Amulet is magic +30 and mana +50.
Sorry if the first post was incorrect. I'm working from memory and
posting from the office.
Greg Kemmetmueller
> Has anyone seen weapons/shields with the Arch-Angels prefix other than
staffs?
Staves are the only weapon what will raise spell levels by two. Other
weapons that raise spell levels are: Mindcry, Dreamflange, Aguinara's
Hatchet, and Angel's staves. I haven't found a shield that raises spell
levels, but Naj's Plate is +1, and a Thinking Cap is +2.
--
Greg Kemmetmueller
Sysop, Online BBS
http://www.gac.edu/~gkemmetm/index.html
http://www.gac.edu/~gkemmetm/diablo.html
Pockets
I think you see the trees but are missing the forest...
I like Rogues and play them for the reason Doug stated... they add
a strategic dimension to the game. Sure the Warrior is better suited
for walking into a fight and hacking away until he is the only one
left standing. Sure the Sorceror can cast "level X" fireballs from a
distance causing huge damage. But the Rogue is relatively weak in the
upper levels and requires more choices of action depending surroundings,
monster types, etc. No one strategy (hacking/slashing or firebombing)
can lead to a successfull adventure. Rogues are a challenge to play and
keep alive. Stealth, cunning, and leading monsters to advantageous
ground have been the keys to my success thus far.
I may be way off base here but thats my two cents...
Greg Kemmetmueller
> > I still like the Rouge, because it adds a strategic dimension to the
game that
> > you don't get with the Warrior or Sorcerer, and I like the fact that I
can take
> > out baddies without direct contact (from a distance).
>
> Ummm my level 35 sorceror can cast a level 16 fireball that does
> 500-700 points of damage.... if thats not "taking out baddies
> without direct contact (from a distance)" then I don't know
> what is.
I know what is. Going into nightmare hell with my level 43 sorcerer,
casting a level 20 chain lightning, then quick turning up the volume on my
speakers to hear "UGH!" and "AGH!" and "AHH!" from all corners. :)
For added effect, have your character screen open and watch your experience
points. >:)
Greg Kemmetmueller
> Rogues are a challenge to play and
> keep alive.
Hmmm, if you want a challenge to keep alive, try my sorcerer. Sure, he's
level 43, all his spell levels are 20, but his AC is only 73. At least
with the rogue, you can wear some semi-descent armor that will block enough
hits to let you run away when you get surrounded. No, I'm not complaining.
I've found a lot of interesting things about the game this way (did you
know that there's 1 out of the 8 directions that you walk faster in? No,
it's not right or left)
Rogues may be hard to keep alive, but a mage with legitimate level 20
spells (none of this thinking cap ring or other hacked shit) is just as
hard.
Zurt Vortex
In article <5g6tbl$i...@camel1.mindspring.com>, Maureen Grady
<q...@mindspring.com> writes
>dan...@ix.netcom.com (Daniel Ban) wrote:
>
>
>Just a couple comments:
>
>>However, the rogue is at a serious disadvantage in another department:
>>DEFENSE. The rogue has the lowest AC and the lowest hit points of any
>>character, BY FAR. This last point has been completely overlooked in
>>this thread. A decent high level warrior can get hit points to 400+
>>fairly easily b/c his Life gives him more hits (2) per point than a
>>rogue (about 1.3 it seems to me). Also a fighter carries a shield and
>>most fighters I see have shields of the tiger or lion. A mage with
>>mana shield of course has the highest hit points in the game (most
>>high level mages have 700+ mana). So what if spells drain the mana
>>shield? The issue is how much defense you get from a full mana/full
>>heal potion. A high level rogue with no duped stuff will max out at
>>around 250 hit points, 300 if you really try. This just doesnt
>>compare to fighter or mage.
>
>Personally, I wouldn't dream of letting my Rogue run around without
>her mana shield. True, it's nowhere near what my mage has but then
>she doesn't need to use the mana for offense nearly as much as the
>mage, and she has more regular life hitpoints in reserve should she
>ever drop the mana shield.
>
>
>> Finally, b/c of no shield, a rogue
>>doesn't get to use a shield. True max dex gives a rogue +50 AC but
>>max fighter dex gives him +12 AC and max mage dex gives him +17 AC.
>>So the rogue only gains +33 or +38 AC from dex compared to others. It
>>is quite normal at high levels to carry shields with higher AC than
>>that (my fighter has a shield 47 AC, +54 hit points, and my mage has a
>>shield +54 AC). Finally, the lack of a shield deprives the rogue of
>>two slots for magic adjectives and a good adjective like emerald or
>>lion can go a long way :).
>
>I think the lack of two modifiers is the only really strong argument.
>
>>and BY FAR the weakest defense (and a mage is by far the most
>>powerful). I really enjoy rogues but I do feel that Blizzard shorted
>>her in the end-game power curve.
>
>I disagree with the "BY FAR" part. I think, that for the way I play,
>my Rogue has nearly as good of defense as my mage.
>
>
A savage bow of the heavens seems to take care of a lot of heavies
so I don't accept that the rogue has no offense.
--
Zurt Vortex
If the shit fits, wear it!
use .com
>Hmmm, if you want a challenge to keep alive, try my sorcerer. Sure, he's
>level 43, all his spell levels are 20, but his AC is only 73. At least
>with the rogue, you can wear some semi-descent armor that will block enough
>hits to let you run away when you get surrounded. No, I'm not complaining.
> I've found a lot of interesting things about the game this way (did you
>know that there's 1 out of the 8 directions that you walk faster in? No,
>it's not right or left)
>
>Rogues may be hard to keep alive, but a mage with legitimate level 20
>spells (none of this thinking cap ring or other hacked shit) is just as
>hard.
So? Don't wear the thinking cap, AA staff's etc. Or heck, USE the aa
staff since the rouge isn't going to use a shield either. Mages are
NOT hard to keep alive, not early in the game and definitely not
later. Actually I didn't die I was well over level 10 as a mage.. so
maybe that is "early" in the game, but somehow I don't think it'll fit
anyone's definition of early. Like most of you out there, I still
haven't found armor I can't wear. Yet ;)
ps. my ac is around 75 right now as a mage since I ditched the
sword&shield combo. It's pretty hard to get surrounded unless you
decide teleport into the enemy on purpose.
Mark Mills
Get the Thinking Cap +2 Spell Levels I think...
that would take you to +20 which I have been informed is max
--
Mark <insert sig <insert 'don't sue my boss' disclaimer here> here>
Alan A. Hobson <aho...@indy.net> wrote in article
<5gbv80$cpi$2...@news.indy.net>...
> My mage carries an Arch-Angels staff of Haste. I have yet to see a
> sword/shield combo that I like better than the added "punch" I get by
taking my
> spells up 2 levels. Last night, I finally found Naj's Light Plate. Now,
with
> the staff, my spells max out at level 18.
>
> Has anyone seen weapons/shields with the Arch-Angels prefix other than
staffs?
>
> -Alan
> "Frobozz"
Robin F. Knight
In article <332F22...@CompuServe.com>, Pockets
<76207...@CompuServe.com> writes
>I like Rogues and play them for the reason Doug stated... they add
>a strategic dimension to the game. Sure the Warrior is better suited
>for walking into a fight and hacking away until he is the only one
>left standing. Sure the Sorceror can cast "level X" fireballs from a
>distance causing huge damage. But the Rogue is relatively weak in the
>upper levels and requires more choices of action depending surroundings,
>monster types, etc. No one strategy (hacking/slashing or firebombing)
>can lead to a successfull adventure. Rogues are a challenge to play and
>keep alive. Stealth, cunning, and leading monsters to advantageous
>ground have been the keys to my success thus far.
>
>I may be way off base here but thats my two cents...
I agree, I played the Rogue for the first time yesterday and as a Level
5 flattened The Butcher without getting hit once - something I couldn't
do with my Warrior until he had gained much more experience.
--
Robin F. Knight - The Yellow Jester does not play, but gently pulls the
strings; and smiles as the puppets dance, in the Court
of the Crimson King
Tim Graham
hmmm, kinda wierd but my brand new rogue gets to level 6 by the time she
meets the butcher and then promptly gets whacked by the butcher about three
times before i make a break for the stairs to level 3, down there i find a
bow of the bear, finally i can keep the butcher at a distance, i guess it
all depends on your weapon. my warrior in the same situation just hacked
and healed till the butcher died, no trip to 3 to get help for him.
l8r
Robin F. Knight <rob...@crimson-court.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<BhDCZIAq...@crimson-court.demon.co.uk>...
> In article <332F22...@CompuServe.com>, Pockets
> <76207...@CompuServe.com> writes
> I agree, I played the Rogue for the first time yesterday and as a Level
mall
John Hamilton wrote:
>
> On 18 Mar 1997 05:48:31 GMT, "Greg Kemmetmueller"
> <sy...@ph116b.res-hall.gac.edu> wrote:
>
> >> Ummm my level 35 sorceror can cast a level 16 fireball that does
> >> 500-700 points of damage.... if thats not "taking out baddies
> >> without direct contact (from a distance)" then I don't know
> >> what is.
> >
> >I know what is. Going into nightmare hell with my level 43 sorcerer,
> >casting a level 20 chain lightning, then quick turning up the volume on my
> >speakers to hear "UGH!" and "AGH!" and "AHH!" from all corners. :)
> >
> >For added effect, have your character screen open and watch your experience
> >points. >:)
>
> Maybe if I start playing multiplayer and avoid the a-holes, I'll have a chance
> to experience what a cast like that feels like. But, I just got the game so
> there's no hurry. Its a real (and refreshing) change from c&c (all of them)
> and mw2 and quake, that is for sure.
>
> The only problem with your l20 chain lightning spell is it kills the rest of
> the humans who are supposedly all on the same side. <g>
>
> Well, actually, not all the rest of the humans, just the ones without really
> good lightning resistance or mana shields. I guess lower level characters
> wouldn't want to play in a game with you, eh?
>
Well there is that...<G> :-) but by the time you get to lvl 43 you will
not need to play with other people unless you want to. If you do just
use caution when casting spells.
dszt...@dk-online.dk
On Wed, 19 Mar 1997 13:28:29 GMT, jo...@pball.com (John Hamilton)
wrote:
>On 18 Mar 1997 05:48:31 GMT, "Greg Kemmetmueller"
><sy...@ph116b.res-hall.gac.edu> wrote:
>
>>> Ummm my level 35 sorceror can cast a level 16 fireball that does
>>> 500-700 points of damage.... if thats not "taking out baddies
>>> without direct contact (from a distance)" then I don't know
>>> what is.
>>
>>I know what is. Going into nightmare hell with my level 43 sorcerer,
>>casting a level 20 chain lightning, then quick turning up the volume on my
>>speakers to hear "UGH!" and "AGH!" and "AHH!" from all corners. :)
>>
>>For added effect, have your character screen open and watch your experience
>>points. >:)
>
>My piddly little sorcerer would *love* to have a level 20 chain lightning!
>Maybe if I start playing multiplayer and avoid the a-holes, I'll have a chance
>to experience what a cast like that feels like. But, I just got the game so
>there's no hurry. Its a real (and refreshing) change from c&c (all of them)
>and mw2 and quake, that is for sure.
>
>The only problem with your l20 chain lightning spell is it kills the rest of
>the humans who are supposedly all on the same side. <g>
>
>Well, actually, not all the rest of the humans, just the ones without really
>good lightning resistance or mana shields. I guess lower level characters
>wouldn't want to play in a game with you, eh?
Actually.... When I cast my chain lightning.... My co-players DON'T
get hurt, unless ofcourse they run straight into a bolt.... But as
long as the "player friendly" toggle os on, I don't shoot lightning
straight at my friends.... The same SHOULD apply to You....
Glenn Pearce
> A savage bow of the heavens seems to take care of a lot of heavies
> so I don't accept that the rogue has no offense.
Not to mention the fact that she attacks faster than a warrior who doesn't
have a haste sword.
Bree
> Yeah. On single-player I just got Diablo this weekend and started
playing as
> a Rogue, because it seemed the best class for trashing monsters (this was
> based on my impression of the first level of the dungeons, where the
Rogue's
> bow really does kick ass and allows you to kill every monster in the
level
> without being hit more than a few times).
I love the Rogue because of the approach the character has...the whole
point in being a rogue is to be sneaky, and that means rather than going in
head first (like a warrior) or using kickbutt spells (like a sorcerer),
youve got to actually THINK about what you are doing, which makes it a hell
of a lot more fun!
Running from monsters and occasionally turning around and picking at them
with a bow is great!
Allen
I never said that a rogue "has no offense". My point to all this is that
a high level Rogue, even with a very nice bow, will never have the same
offensive capability as a high level sorcerer, and it will never be as
good at defense when it can't carry a shield like the other characters
can. Maybe the Rogue does 200 points of damage per arrow, its still no
comparison to a high level fireball or chain lightning spell.
And you Rogues don't kid yourself, a mage can cast fireballs just as fast
as you can shoot your arrows. A mage can cast all spells alot faster than
other characters for that matter. I ran a sorcerer up to level 36, and
recently I've got a fighter up to level 26. When the warrior casts
fireball it takes alot longer to summon the spell, and the fireball
travels across the room alot slower than when the mage casts the same
spell. Even mana shield appears for a mage alot sooner than it will for a
fighter when cast.
Still, as has been pointed out in this thread before there are advantages
of playing a rogue, and I've recently started running one myself.
See ya'll around...
Telecaster, Level 36 mage
BigBend, Lewel 26 warrior
SixString, Level 1 Rogue
Alex Mars
I'll have to say that the rogue is my favorite character type, good for
hit and run harrassing attacks and still handy with magic. I find
warriors frustrating due to the interminable track meets that occur when
chasing archers and snow witches. Sorcerers are fun but you have to think
and pay attention.
Anson
On 21 Mar 1997 21:40:58 -0600, all...@Starbase.NeoSoft.COM (Allen)
wrote:
Yeah, I noticed that. It seems to depend on what level you know the
spell to. My new mage knows firebolt at level 3, my warrior does too.
no difference in casting time there, but compare that to a mage who
knows firebolt at 15 to a warrior who knows the same spell at level 5
(if he's got enough magic), I rest my case.
Cheers,
Anson.
Steven K. Lee
dszt...@dk-online.dk wrote:
>
[snip]
> Actually.... When I cast my chain lightning.... My co-players DON'T
> get hurt, unless ofcourse they run straight into a bolt.... But as
> long as the "player friendly" toggle os on, I don't shoot lightning
> straight at my friends.... The same SHOULD apply to You....
Actually, you can kill your buddies even if they standing still. Very
often, I shot chain lightning and it went for the monsters behind
several walls from my sight, and my buddy just happened to be on the
path. Oops!
--
Remove dash "-" from my email address if you wish to send me an email.
Steven K. Lee
Mark Asher
How on earth do you get to spell level 25 without using hacked items? By my
reckoning, you can raise spell levels to 20 and no higher. Thinking Cap,
Naj's Light Plate, and an Archangel's staff are the only boosts I know of
that will put you up to 20. If you are using a Thinking Cap ring or
somesuch, well, you know what you're doing. Might as well just go in and
hack your stats too.
Mark Asher
John Hamilton <jo...@pball.com> wrote in article
<33376c52...@news.hiwaay.net>...
> On Fri, 21 Mar 1997 12:33:26 -0500, mall <ma...@olg.com> wrote:
snip
> I've since figured out how to get to level 25 on spells using natural
modifiers.
> Have to give up mana from other modifiers to do it, though. Then I
backed
> him up and gave him some real godly firepower. He's way out of Diablo's
> league now, and I'm going to retire him (except for bounty hunting) and
start
> a new character. Maybe a warrior this time.
snip
Greg Kemmetmueller
> I love the Rogue because of the approach the character has...the whole
> point in being a rogue is to be sneaky, and that means rather than going
in
> head first (like a warrior) or using kickbutt spells (like a sorcerer),
> youve got to actually THINK about what you are doing, which makes it a
hell
> of a lot more fun!
Do you play a sorcerer? Change that, do you play a sorcerer above level
10? I'm guessing not, since if you did you'd know that (without using the
hacked and duped shit) starting a mage is hard, and you can't always just
charge in and fire off 90 spells. There's a strategy for each class, it's
different for each class.
I've seen a lot of warriors charge in head first.
I've seen a lot of warriors have that same head chopped off.
That's why I always just poke my head around the corner with my warrior,
and let the monsters come after me, rather than chase them, and leading me
into an area with even more monsters....
Burghy
Look at the title of this posting again, guys. Try to see another
meaning... think... think... got it yet? What could it mean? Hm....
Matthias Watermann
On 14 Mar 1997 16:43:44 GMT, aho...@indy.net (Alan A. Hobson) wrote:
>Has anyone seen weapons/shields with the Arch-Angels prefix other than staffs?
Only hacked ones. Once in a game someone gave me an Arch-Angels ring
of Wizardry and a Cardinal's Ring of Radiance. He said I should keep
them, he wanted to hack another combination. I don't use duped/hacked
items so I dropped them at the beginning of Dungeons and waited for a
newbie to find them.
+----------------------------------------------------+
| Matthias Watermann |
| mailto: wate...@cww.de |
| http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Alley/6348/ |
+----------------------------------------------------+
Silverlock
What you should have done is to keep them till you could enter a
password protected game then drop them and leave.
--
Silverlock, UIN 474725
Household Pests? The SW-404 'SpitFire' APRL cleansing system
will remove them, we Guarantee IT! Not responsible for damage
to persons or structures from use of this product.
Dial 1-800-FRY-THEM for info and a home demonstration.
Ronald Courtright
John Hamilton (jo...@pball.com) wrote:
: than anything else. Having been to Hell, I'm still wondering how he will be
: able to handle the Advocates and Succubi there.
: john
--
Same way you do in other levels. The goal is to avoid the withering cross
fire offerred by the combined elements of the A's and S's. Back track to
a safe/cleared area, if there is one, and you will find that the Succubi
will follow while the Advocates will lag behind.
Succubi will group together, so you must take advantage of this and herd them
into one area and so avoid the cross-fire. If you succeed, lay down a fire
wall. What ever you do, do not chase individual pixies until you lay waste to
the main force. If your warrior has a powerful bow or a good fireball, now
is the time to use it.
As for the Advocates, the best tactic, after dispatching the Succubi, would be
to lure them individually around a corner and then whacking them.
Be seeing you,
Ron Courtright
_____________________________________________________________________
| |
| PGP Key ID: 4DF26355 |
| PGP Fingerprint: 49 E4 D4 34 B1 4E 51 D1 94 65 CD 10 B2 A6 A4 52 |
|_____________________________________________________________________|
Christian Seitz
> I've since figured out how to get to level 25 on spells using natural
modifiers.
> Have to give up mana from other modifiers to do it, though. Then I backed
> him up and gave him some real godly firepower. He's way out of Diablo's
> league now, and I'm going to retire him (except for bounty hunting) and start
> a new character. Maybe a warrior this time.
> Now I know what a big level chain lightning spell is like. Pretty awesome when
> you are on 16 and take everything in the room out at once. His most fun these
> days when not role playing with other characters is going into the room with
> two skeleton levers and using fireball to pick the Advocates off. He's
thinking
Some(all) of the monsters on 16 are immune to lightning. So you can't take
out everything in the room with chain lightning. My sorcerer has
teleported into diablo's room in a normal game. Diablo was dead after a 2
seconds battle.
I also play a rogue and the Rogue is the best character against the
creatures on level 16 in a HELL game.
Christian Seitz
waldby julian f
sar...@topnz.ac.nz (Kevin Sartorelli) writes:
>>From my standpoint the Rogue is the BEST character so far. I have a
>>4th level wizard that gets his butt kicked every 5 minutes on level 3.
>Wait until it gets up a few more levels. I have level 36 in all
>classes, and find the Mage can clear a level faster than the other two
>classes.
>The warrior is great until he meets characters that fire from a
>distance - witchs are the worst.
These are no problem. I always carry the best bow I've found in my
pack to pull out at anytime. It is a necessary piece of equipment for
the warrior in my opinion.
Julian
--
"copper slopes, licorice ropes, and cinnamon soaps."
/---/=/--//--------~/_o__/-----------===^==[ZXZXZXZO
waldby julian f
Sti...@txdirect.net (Stinger) writes:
>Paul Masters <mast...@qi3.com> wrote:
>>Allen wrote:
>From my standpoint the Rogue is the BEST character so far. I have a
>4th level wizard that gets his butt kicked every 5 minutes on level 3.
>His spell selection sucks. Random games mean random spellbooks. My
>Warrior had a better spell selection at 3rd level.
The fact is, this is easily overcome by loading your character into a new
world. My warrior has tons of spells (just for the novelty, I only use
Town Portal) because of all the bookshelves I've rummaged through in
only two runs through. This can be done in the single player game by
selecting 'new game' instead of 'load game' for your character. This
option is only for gathering more items for the quest, since monsters
on early levels don't give you any experience. Also it's nice since it
will change the monsters on levels if they are really pesky.
>You say you the rogue can't hold a shield? Try it once. I seem to be
>able to hold one pretty well. As far as I can see the Warrior is the
>best at hand to hand and the mage (blah!) is the best at magic
>(overall and at lower levels at least). The best jack of all trades
>character IS the rogue. Come on. If you want to close to hand to
>hand range you got a death wish. The Rogue's ability with a bow
>kicks butt! With my stats all under 90, I can still take out 4
>steellords with a bow of stars (2-6 damage base) before the others can
>get to me and beat the snot out of me. BTW, my rogue is only 21st
>level.
I think the fighter is a good jack of all trades. He can build enough
dexterity to hold a reasonably good bow and such.
>Speaking of levels, has anyone had a problem of the save game files
>crapping out on them? I had a rogue up to 20th level before and my
>save game scragged out. Anyway...this is my two cents.
I've never had any problems with Diablo.
Darren McDonald
waldby julian f wrote:
>
> sar...@topnz.ac.nz (Kevin Sartorelli) writes:
>
> >>From my standpoint the Rogue is the BEST character so far. I have a
> >>4th level wizard that gets his butt kicked every 5 minutes on level 3.
>
> >classes, and find the Mage can clear a level faster than the other two
> >classes.
>
> >The warrior is great until he meets characters that fire from a
> >distance - witchs are the worst.
>
> These are no problem. I always carry the best bow I've found in my
> pack to pull out at anytime. It is a necessary piece of equipment for
> the warrior in my opinion.
>
> --
> "copper slopes, licorice ropes, and cinnamon soaps."
> /---/=/--//--------~/_o__/-----------===^==[ZXZXZXZO
The rogue is best for the first 20 (character) levels and down to
dungeon level 12. Higher character levels mean little to a rogue: your
dex increases so you get hit (slightly) less and your magic goes up a
bit for 'panic' spells. The rogue's best strategy is small groups and
generous spells.
The warrior is a straight line increase in power. With good equipment
that gets improved every few levels, only the ranged creatures pose a
threat and stone curse can usually take care of them. With the right
armor and jewelry, a warrior can stand surrounded by some of the
toughest creatures and never take a scratch. Add a good sword of life
and you can kiss heal potions goodbye. A warrior simply should not use
a bow because he is too slow compared to a rogue and he does the bow
more damage than the damage it deals out is worth.
The mage. Ahh, true art. Starts out weak and must graduate slowly and
carefully by restarting games over and over. The mage should not meet
the Butcher before level 10 and should not meet Leoric before lvl 15.
Once lvl 25 is achieved, however, the mage's true form comes to light.
With the right jewelry, armor and weapons (staff or some melee weapon
and shield) a mage can reach godly levels of magic and mana. With a
mana shield, which I consider mandatory upon entering a level, all of
this mana becomes life. With multiple levels of spells that only
trickle from the mana, a high level mage can scare the pants off of
Diablo. For example, my wife's lvl 34 mage has almost 800 points of
magic. Roughly this means she can take as much damage as a high level
warrior with 400 health points and deal out 400 points of magic which
with chain lightning or fireball means about 2000 points of damage, gulp
one potion and do it again.
--
§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§§
Hobbit Dragon - aka Phaltran Pogammon, Avatar of
Britannia, Knight Protectorate of Scarborough /Ż\
http://www.applink.net/avatar _\_/_
"Truth, yes, that's the most important. Ż|Ż
Without truth there can be nothing else." |
-Merlin, from Excalibur
waldby julian f
Darren McDonald <ava...@applink.net> writes:
>The warrior is a straight line increase in power. With good equipment
>that gets improved every few levels, only the ranged creatures pose a
>threat and stone curse can usually take care of them. With the right
>armor and jewelry, a warrior can stand surrounded by some of the
>toughest creatures and never take a scratch. Add a good sword of life
>and you can kiss heal potions goodbye. A warrior simply should not use
>a bow because he is too slow compared to a rogue and he does the bow
>more damage than the damage it deals out is worth.
Perhaps you believe this to be a message from the high command, but perhaps
I play differently from you. I increased Dex almost as quickly as Strength,
so that I maxxed out dex to 60 when my strength was 80. When I am dealing
with ranged monsters, I take them like the rogue does, in small bits,
playing an easy attrition. I have a 45 Dur bow which does not cause me
problems. It maybe loses 7 Durability a level where I am fighting ranged
monsters. I think the key is getting a good bow.
David Michael Kass
In article <5tkd2c$gf5$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>,
Having a fairly high level warrior (lv37), I can comment on this. I
found a period between levels 26 and 33 or so where a bow was a good
weapon and I always carried one (the lower limit was when my dex got
high enough for me to use War Bows/Battle Bows and could find ones
that improved my %hit significantly. At the upper end, my equipment
strength and spells are now good enough for me to just walk around
killing things with HtH weapons. For big bad creatures (esp succubi
leaders), I stone them, then whack. With my magic, I can always cast 2
stone curse per ball and can usually cast 3--depends a bit what
equipment I wear.
The only creature I have trouble dealing with are succubi and their
ilk (esp soul burners). On normal and nightmare, I just crank my
resistance to 75% and either flame wall them or hunt them down one by
one. I haven't done much hell/hell yet because of them (I lost all my
equipment end of July when I ran into a whole pile of them
unexpectedly at the stairs down on level 12 in the open). Advocates
and their ilk don't teleport away that much, so since I can kill them
in 2-3 swings (nightmares) and stun them every blow, I don't have too
much trouble, just run up to them and swing until they die.
Once a warrior gets strong enough, the key element for a weapon is
actually its to hit bonus. A maxed out warrior will have a naked base
damage above 90 and usually an equipped base damage somewere above
120. Since even with the best damage modifier, a good weapon is going
to average ~< 29 (a +175% bastard sword is 28.5), this is going to be
around 20% of their total damage. On the other hand, the naked base
attack is ~80% and probably isn't better than 100% when fully equipped
(excluding the weapon). I've found you need >100% for normal, >150%
for nightmare and probably >175% for hell to be comfortable. Given
this, I'm wondering if the best weapon for a warrior isn't a Strange
Sword (bastard) of haste. While it will do less damage than a Kings
sword (by ~20 points/or 15%), it will hit much better. Has anyone
seen a strange sword? A side effect of this is that I tend to use the
weapon with the best %to hit bonus regardless of what type it is (For
a while, I used a Kings dagger).
On the other hand, I did have fun doing a level of normal hell full of
Snow Witches with a staff of fireball last night (killing the Balrogs
with the staff wasn't too much worse than usual). I wouldn't do it on
nightmare because I need my shield (and I'd need it even more in Hell,
I really miss my StormShield Fast Block).
So for a level 50 warrior, what is the absolute best equipment to
have? All equipment must be legal (ie generated by the game -- none
of these demonspike rings). My thoughts are:
*GPOW (full plate) (absolute best is AC 225 +100 HP)
*KSOH (or maybe Strange SOH--bastard)
*Stormshield (if Fast Block can occur on non unique shields, then it
would be Godly (tower) Shield of Fast Block -- AC 60).
*Godly (great) Helm of the Whale (AC 45 + 100 HP)
*Obsidian ring of the Zodiac
*Obsidian ring of the Zodiac
*Hydra's ring of the Zodiac (I think this is legal, if not then use
Dragon's).
The net is AC ~350, HP ~650, Mana ~275, 75% resistance in all
categories, and Fast Block and Haste. Hmmm, this implies anything
over ~750HP must be cheating (since a shield of the Whale would give
another 100 HP but cost Fast Block).
--
David Kass Caltech Grad Student
E-Mail: dk...@cco.caltech.edu Planetary Science
Research: dk...@venus1.gps.caltech.edu
Pedro Faria
On 23 Aug 1997 02:55:48 GMT, dk...@cco.caltech.edu (David Michael
Kass) wrote:
>In article <5tkd2c$gf5$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>,
Agree on most but have a few comments.
>The only creature I have trouble dealing with are succubi and their
>ilk (esp soul burners). On normal and nightmare, I just crank my
>resistance to 75% and either flame wall them or hunt them down one by
>one.
Agree, I play a warrior now too (level 39) and they are about the
worst there is. Remember though that soul burners are immune to fire.
>Once a warrior gets strong enough, the key element for a weapon is
>actually its to hit bonus.
Equally imortant (and it is so even before to hit is important) is
some sort of speed/hast weapon. They help a lot in keeping those
monsters stunned so they don't run away and it makes you kill them
much quicker.
>So for a level 50 warrior, what is the absolute best equipment to
>have? All equipment must be legal (ie generated by the game -- none
>of these demonspike rings). My thoughts are:
>*GPOW (full plate) (absolute best is AC 225 +100 HP)
I (and many with me) doubt you will ever be able to find godly _full
plate_ in the game. The best would be awesome full plate. But if
someone somewhere ever finds one (NOT given by some duper/hacker
whether knowingly or not) please tell.
>*KSOH (or maybe Strange SOH--bastard)
Some people like the blood/life steel combo. I have never tried it but
it could be an alternative.
>*Stormshield (if Fast Block can occur on non unique shields, then it
>would be Godly (tower) Shield of Fast Block -- AC 60).
A high level warrior does not need a fast block as he has an inherent
fast block. Just give him any shield and watch him fast block!!! So go
for something godly.
>*Godly (great) Helm of the Whale (AC 45 + 100 HP)
Now this is possible but you have to get it from Wirt. (Bought a godly
great helm of mammoth from him today :-)
>*Obsidian ring of the Zodiac
>*Obsidian ring of the Zodiac
>*Hydra's ring of the Zodiac (I think this is legal, if not then use
>Dragon's).
No the highest you can get is dragon's.
>The net is AC ~350, HP ~650, Mana ~275, 75% resistance in all
With anawesome plate your AC will be some 35 lower but on the other
hand your godly shield could be a bit higher.
>categories, and Fast Block and Haste. Hmmm, this implies anything
>over ~750HP must be cheating (since a shield of the Whale would give
>another 100 HP but cost Fast Block).
But you already had fast block so +100 HP. Also remember that zodiac
gives at most +20 but you can get a ring/amulet of life up to +30
giving you some more HP so you can probably pump it up to over 900.
But then it gets though. I thing there is some game limit just above
1000. Trying a heal other on a mega HP guy and it will drop his HP to
1000 something. Real funny to do accually!!
---
Pedro Faria