[D2] Corpse Explosion is almost worthless...
Lifegrind
hp of monsters increase and since CE does 60-100% of monster hp it should
explode at the new hp of the monsters....but
now in 8 player games CE does about 4-8% actual corpse hp. It is useless
now....
BTW, how bad is whirlwind now? I've been building my character, thinking I'd
use it a lot, but now, I'm not so sure.
Lifegrind
"Frost" <coldasfr...@THIShotmail.com> wrote in message
news:96543968...@news2.cybercity.dk...
>
> Whirlwind = BAD BAD BAD
>
> You can now only hit ONE monster pr whirlwind.
>
> Fuck blizzard, damn I hate them
Good thing I barely started using it. I'm at level 41 and just tryed it the
other day.
Time to get out the char. editor and redistribute my whirlwind points back
over to Iron Skin.
Russ Taylor
<coldasfr...@THIShotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Whirlwind = BAD BAD BAD
>
> You can now only hit ONE monster pr whirlwind.
>
> Fuck blizzard, damn I hate them
It's one monster per swing (revolution? I haven't seen whirlwind),
according to the notes on it...and as with corpse explosion, when two
skills allow two classes to not just dominate, but control, the top
slots, it's a balance problem and ought to be fixed.
scythe54...@aol.com.invalid
>Corpse explosion at 8 players does nothing now....as more
players join, the
>hp of monsters increase and since CE does 60-100% of monster hp
it should
>explode at the new hp of the monsters....but
>now in 8 player games CE does about 4-8% actual corpse hp. It
is useless
>now....
So that's why!! Damn!
----------------
-----------------------------------------------------------
Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
Up to 100 minutes free!
http://www.keen.com
Russ Taylor
scyt...@aol.com <scythe54...@aol.com.invalid> wrote:
> "Lifegrind" <soul...@postmark.netNOSPAM> wrote:
> >Corpse explosion at 8 players does nothing now....as more
> players join, the
> >hp of monsters increase and since CE does 60-100% of monster hp
> it should
> >explode at the new hp of the monsters....but
> >now in 8 player games CE does about 4-8% actual corpse hp. It
> is useless
> >now....
>
> So that's why!! Damn!
BTW, in the interests of math accuracy:
CE is based on the base hp of the creature in question now
So with 8 players it does (60-100%)/8 damage of the creature's total hp
(8x the hp with 1 players), or 7.5 - 12.5%
Frost
Jugalator
> Corpse explosion at 8 players does nothing now....as more players join,
the
> hp of monsters increase and since CE does 60-100% of monster hp it should
> explode at the new hp of the monsters....but
> now in 8 player games CE does about 4-8% actual corpse hp. It is useless
> now....
Corpse Explosion does 60-100% damage of BASE monster hp now. This is like it
should have been from the beginning; it was a bug that allowed Necromancer
to join 8 player games and almost play solo just with the help of CE. Now,
multiplayer games hopefully make Necromancers need more players to help,
just like these games are meant to work.
Jugalator
SunsetWarrior
place: as a weakling who relies on his intellect to survive.. something
sorceresses in 8 player games know already.
Jugalator <j...@null.net> wrote in message
news:8mfv6h$j3r$1...@cubacola.tninet.se...
Spice Weasel
Russ Taylor wrote
> In article scyt...@aol.com <scythe54...@aol.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> > "Lifegrind" wrote:
> > >Corpse explosion at 8 players does nothing now....as more
> > players join, the
> > >hp of monsters increase and since CE does 60-100% of monster hp
> > it should
> > >explode at the new hp of the monsters....but
> > >now in 8 player games CE does about 4-8% actual corpse hp. It
> > is useless
> > >now....
> >
>
>
> BTW, in the interests of math accuracy:
>
> CE is based on the base hp of the creature in question now
>
> So with 8 players it does (60-100%)/8 damage of the creature's total hp
> (8x the hp with 1 players), or 7.5 - 12.5%
Yeah, but that is still pretty weak, considering that it normally is 60-100
damage, Even playing two players makes the damage 30-50% which renders the
corpse explosion utterly and completely USELESS!!! it will only tickle the
monstors it they are even standing on the corpse. They should have made some
sort of scaling for the CE, like 1 player = 60-100% dmg, 2 players = 55-95%
dmg,
3 ppl = 50-90% dmg, 4 ppl = 45-85%, and so on and so forth. at least with 8
ppl the CE will do 25-65% dmg, which is far better than 7.5-12.5%.
Well just a thought!
Dave Bethell
soul...@postmark.netNOSPAM says...
> Corpse explosion at 8 players does nothing now....as more players join, the
> hp of monsters increase and since CE does 60-100% of monster hp it should
> explode at the new hp of the monsters....but
> now in 8 player games CE does about 4-8% actual corpse hp. It is useless
> now....
So from what I understand, even with the 1.03 patch the CE will remain
unchanged in SINGLE PLAYER (except for the range increase every 2nd
level).. am I right?
BTW, I wouldn't even bother installing 1.03 except that I need to join
multiplayer games every now and then for trading..
--
Dave Bethell
ano...@paradise.net.nz
Ray Kerby
"Lifegrind" <soul...@postmark.netNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:somp5q9...@corp.supernews.com...
> Corpse explosion at 8 players does nothing now....as more players join,
the
> hp of monsters increase and since CE does 60-100% of monster hp it should
> explode at the new hp of the monsters....but
> now in 8 player games CE does about 4-8% actual corpse hp. It is useless
> now....
???
None of the other classes have skills that scale up their damage in
multi-player
games. My barbarian's sword does 15-36 dmg whether there is 1 player or 8
players in the game.
8 player games are SUPPOSED to be more difficult.
Welcome to a more level playing field.
BlackCobra
> ???
>
> None of the other classes have skills that scale up their damage in
> multi-player
> games.
how about static field?
Hans Bergengren
Russ Taylor <rta...@cmc.net> wrote:
> > Fuck blizzard, damn I hate them
> It's one monster per swing (revolution? I haven't seen whirlwind),
> according to the notes on it...and as with corpse explosion, when two
> skills allow two classes to not just dominate, but control, the top
> slots, it's a balance problem and ought to be fixed.
Problem? What problem?
Who gives a flying rat's ass about those goddam ladders? I don't, and no
other person I know of do either. What right does Blizz have to go and
ruin a character I've spent countless hours and much effort building
JUST TO "FIX" THEIR GODDAMN B.NET LADDERS??? AAAARRGGHHH!
I don't play online. Never have, and won't do for untold months and
months either. I don't give a damn about the ladders, they can crash and
burn for all I care.
Blizzard is much too concentrated on the online aspect of the game,
they're neglecting the single-player and LAN parts of the game. CE is
not unbalanced, it's the game that is unbalanced. Playing a Necro
against Duriel even on normal skill is HELL, absolute HELL. With my
Barb, it was a walk in the park. I just kept double-swingin' at him and
he was toast. Now, in a LAN game, I can't do much with my CE anymore,
that really sucks. And the lag... JEEEEZ! I have *never* experienced lag
in a LAN game until D2 came along... Unforgivable!
*THAT'S* unbalance...
Bye!
/HB.
Cody Hatch
said:
>Corpse Explosion does 60-100% damage of BASE monster hp now. This is
>like it should have been from the beginning; it was a bug that allowed
>Necromancer to join 8 player games and almost play solo just with the
>help of CE. Now, multiplayer games hopefully make Necromancers need more
>players to help, just like these games are meant to work.
Well put! I had been reading many of these complaints with increasing
annoyance, but wasn't quite sure of how best to explain to these morons
their mistake. No need, now--somoene else beat me to it. :-)
Cody
--
"That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die."
Chris - [D.A.]bLACKoPS - Muenchrath
> Corpse explosion at 8 players does nothing now....as more players join, the
> hp of monsters increase and since CE does 60-100% of monster hp it should
> explode at the new hp of the monsters....but
> now in 8 player games CE does about 4-8% actual corpse hp. It is useless
> now....
Thats why i stay at v1.02. Ok thats no B.net for me but who the f**kin hell
cares about B.net...its crowded ,unstable and populated by too many Morons IMHO
Id rather meet with 4-5 Friends ,Plug our 'puters together and have a nice
LAN-weekend with lots of Alcohol *grin*
cU
[D.A.]bLACKoPS - Sir bLACKoPS , Lvl 32 Paladin , Nightmare
Cody Hatch
alt.games.diablo said:
>Russ Taylor <rta...@cmc.net> wrote:
>
>> > Fuck blizzard, damn I hate them
>
>> It's one monster per swing (revolution? I haven't seen whirlwind),
>> according to the notes on it...and as with corpse explosion, when two
>> skills allow two classes to not just dominate, but control, the top
>> slots, it's a balance problem and ought to be fixed.
>
>Problem? What problem?
>
>Who gives a flying rat's ass about those goddam ladders? I don't, and no
>other person I know of do either. What right does Blizz have to go and
>ruin a character I've spent countless hours and much effort building
>JUST TO "FIX" THEIR GODDAMN B.NET LADDERS??? AAAARRGGHHH!
The ladders are a reflection of normal play. Barbarians would not be at
top of ladder (as opposed to, say, an Amazon) if the Barbarian wasn't
better than the Amazon. That's just as true for the ladder as it is for
single player or LAN gaming. To take it to extremes, I think we would all
agree that adding a 6th class in that had a lvl1 skill that cost 5 mana and
insta-killed a single target would be unbalancing, right? The difference
between that and Whirlwind is a matter of degree only--not a qualitative
difference at all.
<snip rant>
>Blizzard is much too concentrated on the online aspect of the game,
>they're neglecting the single-player and LAN parts of the game. CE is
>not unbalanced, it's the game that is unbalanced. Playing a Necro
>against Duriel even on normal skill is HELL, absolute HELL.
Yeah, well, Duriel's a bitch. Now answer me this--single player or multi?
If single player, nothing has changed. If multi, the bug that scaled
corpse-explosion damage (unlike all other damage) has been fixed. It's
hard now? Welcome to the real world! My paladins sword doesn't do ANY
more damage against Duriel, no matter how many people are in the game.
>With my
>Barb, it was a walk in the park. I just kept double-swingin' at him and
>he was toast. Now, in a LAN game, I can't do much with my CE anymore,
>that really sucks.
Welcome to the real world. Allow me to contain my sympathy. The monsters
are now X times harder to kill in an X-player game. Now you know how the
NON-necros feel. Which is why you need teamwork. Even on Nightmare,
Duriel isn't all the hard if you manage to tag-team he/she/it.
>And the lag... JEEEEZ! I have *never* experienced lag
>in a LAN game until D2 came along... Unforgivable!
A seperate issue...
>*THAT'S* unbalance...
You haven't mentioned any yet...
Andrew C. Lannen
>The ladders are a reflection of normal play. Barbarians would not be at
>top of ladder (as opposed to, say, an Amazon) if the Barbarian wasn't
>better than the Amazon. That's just as true for the ladder as it is for
>single player or LAN gaming. To take it to extremes, I think we would all
>agree that adding a 6th class in that had a lvl1 skill that cost 5 mana and
>insta-killed a single target would be unbalancing, right? The difference
>between that and Whirlwind is a matter of degree only--not a qualitative
>difference at all.
So to balance it, they make WW into a 30th level, 25 plus mana
skill that can't kill anything? Now _that_ makes sense. As it
stands now, every new combat skill that Barbarians get after level 16
is pretty much useless. And they are supposed to be the masters of
melee combat? Paladins now have _far_ better combat skills with
Concentration, Vengeance, and Zeal than do Barbs.
Andrew
--
Andrew Lannen
and...@ix.netcom.com
The Dawg
>Corpse explosion at 8 players does nothing now....as more
players join, the
>hp of monsters increase and since CE does 60-100% of monster hp
it should
>explode at the new hp of the monsters....but
>now in 8 player games CE does about 4-8% actual corpse hp. It
is useless
>now....
>
Last time I looked my paladins sword damage stayed the same no
matter how many players in game and I had not noticed my amazons
bow doing any more damage regardless if single or 8 player game.
And lo and behold if my sorceress spells do not increase in
damage per player either. Looking for some sympathy here but
damn I am fresh out. I do have some cheese to go with your whine
though.
The Dawg
static field ummm 75% of 1000 hp = 750 75% of that
is .....adifinitum
Hans Malherbe
"Cody Hatch" <co...@chaos.net.nz> wrote in message
news:8F892639...@132.181.30.48...
> Yeah, well, Duriel's a bitch. Now answer me this--single player or multi?
> If single player, nothing has changed. If multi, the bug that scaled
> corpse-explosion damage (unlike all other damage) has been fixed. It's
> hard now? Welcome to the real world! My paladins sword doesn't do ANY
> more damage against Duriel, no matter how many people are in the game.
If you have two paladins going for two monsters the monsters hit points
increase so that you still have to do the same work to kill them together as
you did when you were alone. If you have two necros going for two monsters,
it's more difficult than going solo because after killing the first and
exploding it,you've only done half the damage to the second. The problem is
lack of corpses to explode. Now if you could explode a corpse as many times
as there were players, it would indeed be balanced.
Sergey Dashevskiy
> The ladders are a reflection of normal play. Barbarians would not be at
> top of ladder (as opposed to, say, an Amazon) if the Barbarian wasn't
> better than the Amazon. That's just as true for the ladder as it is for
> single player or LAN gaming. To take it to extremes, I think we would all
> agree that adding a 6th class in that had a lvl1 skill that cost 5 mana and
> insta-killed a single target would be unbalancing, right?
Hmm, make that 2 mana. The skill is called Jab. Well, I take it back, it
instakills everything but the named monsters and bosses.
> The difference
> between that and Whirlwind is a matter of degree only--not a qualitative
> difference at all.
>
>
--
Vedun, 30th tank mage
Xirin, 31st retired druid
Xirinia Gusl'ar, 46th tanking bard of Povar, Nightmare's Asylum
Run fast, die often, leave a well dressed corpse.
Sergey Dashevskiy
says...
> In article <2120b40a...@usw-ex0105-034.remarq.com>,
> scyt...@aol.com <scythe54...@aol.com.invalid> wrote:
>
> > >Corpse explosion at 8 players does nothing now....as more
> > players join, the
> > >hp of monsters increase and since CE does 60-100% of monster hp
> > it should
> > >explode at the new hp of the monsters....but
> > >now in 8 player games CE does about 4-8% actual corpse hp. It
> > is useless
> > >now....
> >
>
>
> BTW, in the interests of math accuracy:
>
> CE is based on the base hp of the creature in question now
>
> So with 8 players it does (60-100%)/8 damage of the creature's total hp
> (8x the hp with 1 players), or 7.5 - 12.5%
Hmm, that sorta makes sense. That's what the spell should show in the
description then. As it stands now, 60-100 % of corpse's life is
misleading.
BTW, in 2-3 player game, with Amp Damage, CE is still ok. I'll have to
try WW though.
Sergey Dashevskiy
>
> "Lifegrind" <soul...@postmark.netNOSPAM> wrote in message
> news:somp5q9...@corp.supernews.com...
> the
> > hp of monsters increase and since CE does 60-100% of monster hp it should
> > explode at the new hp of the monsters....but
> > now in 8 player games CE does about 4-8% actual corpse hp. It is useless
> > now....
>
>
> None of the other classes have skills that scale up their damage in
> multi-player
> players in the game.
Hmm, None, eh? Not even sorceress? Was Static Field removed or
something?
>
> 8 player games are SUPPOSED to be more difficult.
They are. Monsters hit harder. Does any class have a skill that's useful
in single player and not usable in 8 player game? CE is an example of
that. It's now not more difficult for a necro to do damage, it's
impossible.
For a sorceress, more hitpoints of a monster just means pouring more
mana into them, which makes sense.
For a necro, their damage spell requires a component -- corpse. If you
could explode the same corpse 8 times in an 8 player game (and use up
more mana and time to do same relative damage), it would make more sense
>
> Welcome to a more level playing field.
>
>
>
--
Sergey Dashevskiy
hounddaw...@knology.net.invalid says...
> "Lifegrind" <soul...@postmark.netNOSPAM> wrote:
> >Corpse explosion at 8 players does nothing now....as more
> players join, the
> >hp of monsters increase and since CE does 60-100% of monster hp
> it should
> >explode at the new hp of the monsters....but
> >now in 8 player games CE does about 4-8% actual corpse hp. It
> is useless
> >now....
> >
>
>
> matter how many players in game and I had not noticed my amazons
> bow doing any more damage regardless if single or 8 player game.
> And lo and behold if my sorceress spells do not increase in
> damage per player either. Looking for some sympathy here but
> damn I am fresh out. I do have some cheese to go with your whine
> though.
Your argument would make perfect sense if necros got 8 corpses per kill
in an 8 player game. Then they would have to spend 8 times the mana, and
8 times the amount of time to do the same damage. It makes sense, harder
to play in 8 player game and all. Right now they just do less damage,
period.
To make your analogy proper, imagine being able to hit Zeal once per
target. As the monster's hitpoints go up, you get more and more screwed
And by the way, why such harsh feelings about necros? You know, you do
not play *against* them, you play *with* them. How was it hurting your
paladin when your groupmate would be able to help you better, so that
you would get more experience in the same amount of time?
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------
>
> Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com.
> Up to 100 minutes free!
> http://www.keen.com
>
>
--
Sergey Dashevskiy
Damage/CE and Blood Golem/IM.
At least CE was working as it was described in the game and in the
manual -- doing "60-100% of corpse's life" worth of damage.
Blood Golem/Iron Maden were working differently from what they were
described. That combination was wrong. Let me explain: I don't feel that
my necro being able to kill boatloads of shit-monsters was too powerful.
It required me to kill one first (which is not trivial for a necro, at
least at my level), and required me to get the rest of them in range of
it. The blood golem/iron maden allows me to kill Mephisto, solo, at
level 24, in an 8 player game. When you compare that to CE, it kinda
fades, don't you think?
So, Blizzard fixes something that works correct according to the
description, and leaves out an exploit?
Blah...
In article <somp5q9...@corp.supernews.com>,
soul...@postmark.netNOSPAM says...
> Corpse explosion at 8 players does nothing now....as more players join, the
> hp of monsters increase and since CE does 60-100% of monster hp it should
> explode at the new hp of the monsters....but
> now in 8 player games CE does about 4-8% actual corpse hp. It is useless
> now....
>
> BTW, how bad is whirlwind now? I've been building my character, thinking I'd
> use it a lot, but now, I'm not so sure.
>
>
>
--
The Dawg
>
>Your argument would make perfect sense if necros got 8 corpses
per kill
>in an 8 player game. Then they would have to spend 8 times the
mana, and
>8 times the amount of time to do the same damage. It makes
sense, harder
>to play in 8 player game and all. Right now they just do less
damage,
>period.
>
Perhaps it is just me but I really cannot see what you are
getting at here. Please clarify.
>To make your analogy proper, imagine being able to hit Zeal
once per
>target. As the monster's hitpoints go up, you get more and more
screwed
>
Zeal will only do 1x amount of damage per swing no matter how
many players in the game or how many hitpoints monster has. If I
am attacking only 1 target then it may or may not hit slvl +1
times or I may just miss altogether depending on my attack
rating. Corpse explosion did 1x damage in a 1 player game 2x
damage in a 2 player game etc etc and as long as monster was in
the radius of the spell always did 60% of monsters hitpoints
period and up to 100% becoming a insta kill in that respect. It
still does that in a single player game so what is the big deal.
If you are now in a six or 8 player game you may need to party
up a bit more because you no longer can clear a room by casting
amplify damage then sending in your golem or throwing a couple
of bonespears in followed by 1 or 2 casts of CE. Still a good
strategy by the way just need to co op it a bit more.
On a side note why is it people always talk about zeal and
thorns. Both are really very low clvl skills. I am clcl 31 now
and my thorns is at a modifed 2 my zeal is at a modified 5 which
is one higher than I wish it was. Once past a certain slvl zeal
can get you in trouble because you cannot break off attack once
you start it. I cannot imagine nor would I want to have a slvl
20 zeal ..shudder
>And by the way, why such harsh feelings about necros? You know,
you do
>not play *against* them, you play *with* them. How was it
hurting your
>paladin when your groupmate would be able to help you better,
so that
>you would get more experience in the same amount of time?
No hard feelings aginst Necros got a low lvl necro myself
CowKiller. Only thing I have a problem with is everyone
complaining. The skill was way too powerful as it was for a clvl
6 spell. It should have been a clvl 24 or 30 skill from the
beginning . As far as me not getting more exp points now as a
non necro player I would have to disagree. First I have had very
few Necros play co op probably because with their minions they
they did not need to. Secondly even if we did party up I only
got a small fraction of the exp when a necro would clear a room
with one or two casts of ce once I or his golem or his bonespear
had killed the first monster. Necros have a lot of good skills
you just got to learn to use them all not just rely on 1 or 2
for every situation. I still plan on taking old CowKiller up
into the 30's now that he may be a bit more of a challange to
play. One of these days I may even make a Barbarian.
Sergey Dashevskiy
hounddaw...@knology.net.invalid says...
> >Your argument would make perfect sense if necros got 8 corpses
> per kill
> >in an 8 player game. Then they would have to spend 8 times the
> mana, and
> >8 times the amount of time to do the same damage. It makes
> sense, harder
> >to play in 8 player game and all. Right now they just do less
> damage,
> >period.
> >
>
> Perhaps it is just me but I really cannot see what you are
> getting at here. Please clarify.
Certainly.
Most classes have ways to deal damage in any group. As you add people to
the game, the difficulty grows, and it takes more hits to kill the same
monster. It means that tanks need to swing more, ranged attackers need
to shoot more. Everyone takes more damage.
So in this case, the sorceress will need to take more shots per monster
and use up more mana.
So far it makes sense and I have no problem with it whatsoever. However,
in order to do damage, necros need fresh corpses. They don't have the
option to just pour more mana into their kills like sorceress does. They
still get one shot per corpse, but the relative damage is lowered.
The logical solution would seem to be something like allowing necros to
blow up the same corpse 8 times in an 8 player game. That way they spend
more time and more mana, but they can deal damage. Too bad it does not
seem possible to me to actually implement that (it would pose problems
like reusing the same corpse for more purposes like find potion, summon
a skeleton, revive, etc.)
Ken.T
> once per
> >target. As the monster's hitpoints go up, you get more and more
> screwed
> >
> Zeal will only do 1x amount of damage per swing no matter how
> many players in the game or how many hitpoints monster has.
That is right, but then you can try again -that is the difrence, once used
CE = no more corpse.. no more tryes.
> If I
> am attacking only 1 target then it may or may not hit slvl +1
> times or I may just miss altogether depending on my attack
> rating. Corpse explosion did 1x damage in a 1 player game 2x
> damage in a 2 player game etc etc and as long as monster was in
> the radius of the spell always did 60% of monsters hitpoints
> period and up to 100% becoming a insta kill in that respect. It
> still does that in a single player game so what is the big deal.
If I just got 8 corpses of ewery kill, in a 8 pl game....
(Then i got 8 tries, just as you can swing you`r swoard 8 times)
> If you are now in a six or 8 player game you may need to party
> up a bit more because you no longer can clear a room by casting
> amplify damage then sending in your golem or throwing a couple
> of bonespears in followed by 1 or 2 casts of CE. Still a good
> strategy by the way just need to co op it a bit more.
>
But I get no chance of changing my skillpoints, that now is in a usless
spell, no no just change the playng-rules.
Kenneth
Nielix_DK lvl 37 nec
Douglas Rosengard
playing solo. By nightmare level, that means that with one skill point in
one 6th level spell you can explode a corpse for 100+ hit points of damage,
since the monsters are that tough. Compare that to any other spell which
does direct damage and you'll find the total damage is still very, very
great. Also, note that this spell continues to grow stronger the further
you get. By Hell level, it's doing more total damage than even 30th level
spells with some skill points invested in them.
Yes, the spell isn't as good as it was. And yes, it's not that useful
against the big bosses like Duriel (since there aren't any corpses around).
But frankly it was way too powerful before, and now it's just really good
spell.
Now if they'll just fix the cheap Iron Maiden/Blood Golem loophole, I'll be
happy.
Chris - [D.A.]bLACKoPS - Muenchrath <war...@netcologne.de> wrote in message
news:398C8EEC...@netcologne.de...
> Lifegrind wrote:
>
> > Corpse explosion at 8 players does nothing now....as more players join,
the
> > hp of monsters increase and since CE does 60-100% of monster hp it
should
> > explode at the new hp of the monsters....but
> > now in 8 player games CE does about 4-8% actual corpse hp. It is
useless
> > now....
>
Handy Solo
> In article <soo8nl...@corp.supernews.com>, rke...@dallas.net says...
> >
> > "Lifegrind" <soul...@postmark.netNOSPAM> wrote in message
> > news:somp5q9...@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Corpse explosion at 8 players does nothing now....as more players join,
> > the
> > > hp of monsters increase and since CE does 60-100% of monster hp it should
> > > explode at the new hp of the monsters....but
> > > now in 8 player games CE does about 4-8% actual corpse hp. It is useless
> > > now....
> >
> > ???
> >
> > None of the other classes have skills that scale up their damage in
> > multi-player
> > games. My barbarian's sword does 15-36 dmg whether there is 1 player or 8
> > players in the game.
>
> Hmm, None, eh? Not even sorceress? Was Static Field removed or
> something?
>
> >
> > 8 player games are SUPPOSED to be more difficult.
>
> They are. Monsters hit harder.
?!? Naw. They just have lots more hitpoints!
> Does any class have a skill that's useful
> in single player and not usable in 8 player game? CE is an example of
> that. It's now not more difficult for a necro to do damage, it's
> impossible.
> For a sorceress, more hitpoints of a monster just means pouring more
> mana into them, which makes sense.
> For a necro, their damage spell requires a component -- corpse. If you
> could explode the same corpse 8 times in an 8 player game (and use up
> more mana and time to do same relative damage), it would make more sense
Um. I guess that's one way of looking at it.
--
Handy Solo
icq# 76zero39three6
A feature is a bug with seniority.
Douglas Rosengard
based on the strength of the monster. That means that with just one point
invested in a 6th level spell the actual amount damage will always keep pace
with the monsters no matter how powerful they are. A single corpse
explosion at high levels does more damage than 30th level spells which do a
flat amount of damage with more skill points invested.
You get this advantage at a price: you have to use a corpse, limiting the
number of times you can use the spell. It's this limited use that balances
out the tremendous damage of the spell. The fact is that multiplying the
spell damage as more people entered the game only made the spell go way out
of balance with its cost and level.
So even now, with the spell doing "only" single player levels of damage,
it's still a great spell that will still outpace most direct damage spells
as you get to high levels of play. It's just not the ultra-powerful
monstrosity it used to be in multi-player.
Sergey Dashevskiy <xi...@tcimet.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.13f893a25...@news.msu.edu...
> In article <2babfff2...@usw-ex0104-026.remarq.com>,
> hounddaw...@knology.net.invalid says...
Handy Solo
> > >To make your analogy proper, imagine being able to hit Zeal
> > once per
> > >target. As the monster's hitpoints go up, you get more and more
> > screwed
> > >
> > Zeal will only do 1x amount of damage per swing no matter how
> > many players in the game or how many hitpoints monster has.
>
> That is right, but then you can try again -that is the difrence, once used
> CE = no more corpse.. no more tryes.
>
> > If I
> > am attacking only 1 target then it may or may not hit slvl +1
> > times or I may just miss altogether depending on my attack
> > rating. Corpse explosion did 1x damage in a 1 player game 2x
> > damage in a 2 player game etc etc and as long as monster was in
> > the radius of the spell always did 60% of monsters hitpoints
> > period and up to 100% becoming a insta kill in that respect. It
> > still does that in a single player game so what is the big deal.
>
> If I just got 8 corpses of ewery kill, in a 8 pl game....
> (Then i got 8 tries, just as you can swing you`r swoard 8 times)
Haven't played a paladin yet? The number of Zeal swings or damage has
nothing to do with how many players are in the game.
--
Handy Solo
icq# 76zero39three6
If you tell the truth, you don't have to
remember anything
Russ Taylor
<xi...@tcimet.net> wrote:
> So far it makes sense and I have no problem with it whatsoever. However,
> in order to do damage, necros need fresh corpses. They don't have the
> option to just pour more mana into their kills like sorceress does. They
> still get one shot per corpse, but the relative damage is lowered.
> The logical solution would seem to be something like allowing necros to
> blow up the same corpse 8 times in an 8 player game. That way they spend
> more time and more mana, but they can deal damage. Too bad it does not
> seem possible to me to actually implement that (it would pose problems
> like reusing the same corpse for more purposes like find potion, summon
> a skeleton, revive, etc.)
Er, no: the logical solution is for the wussy necromancers to GROUP,
and blow up the corpses other people killed for them.
You aren't supposed to be able to solo high-level (relative to you)
areas in a multi-player game. Only two broken classes (barbarian,
necromancer) could do so with ease. That bug has been fixed.
Russ Taylor
"Spice Weasel" <Spice...@optushome.com.au> wrote:
> Yeah, but that is still pretty weak, considering that it normally is
> 60-100
> damage, Even playing two players makes the damage 30-50% which renders
> the
> corpse explosion utterly and completely USELESS!!! it will only tickle
> the
> monstors it they are even standing on the corpse. They should have made
> some
> sort of scaling for the CE, like 1 player = 60-100% dmg, 2 players =
> 55-95%
> dmg,
> 3 ppl = 50-90% dmg, 4 ppl = 45-85%, and so on and so forth. at least with
> 8
> ppl the CE will do 25-65% dmg, which is far better than 7.5-12.5%.
> Well just a thought!
Half their hit points is useless? What planet are you from? Heck, a
lot of those monsters would take four sword hits to kill on a two-player
game, and you're complaining about talking a third to half the life off
the whole group of them?
Use Amplify Damage if you're so worried about it.
Twin Ion Engine
necromancers....:)
Sergey Dashevskiy
says...
> In article <MPG.13f893a25...@news.msu.edu>, Sergey Dashevskiy
> <xi...@tcimet.net> wrote:
>
> > So far it makes sense and I have no problem with it whatsoever. However,
> > in order to do damage, necros need fresh corpses. They don't have the
> > option to just pour more mana into their kills like sorceress does. They
> > still get one shot per corpse, but the relative damage is lowered.
> > The logical solution would seem to be something like allowing necros to
> > blow up the same corpse 8 times in an 8 player game. That way they spend
> > more time and more mana, but they can deal damage. Too bad it does not
> > seem possible to me to actually implement that (it would pose problems
> > like reusing the same corpse for more purposes like find potion, summon
> > a skeleton, revive, etc.)
>
>
> Er, no: the logical solution is for the wussy necromancers to GROUP,
> and blow up the corpses other people killed for them.
And do 1/8th of the damage that they could do solo? My problem is that
they can't (like others) just burn more mana to do enough damage in
multiplayer. They have nothing to blow up
> You aren't supposed to be able to solo high-level (relative to you)
> areas in a multi-player game.
I still can, with BG/IM thing. Besides, what's level got to do with the
Corpse Explosion?
> Only two broken classes (barbarian,
> necromancer) could do so with ease. That bug has been fixed.
>
--
Sergey Dashevskiy
says...
> Then may you be cursed with playing with 7 other corpse-explosion-happy
> necromancers....:)
I was 2 days ago. Well, not 7, but the other 2 were more than sufficient
to fuck things up... Every time I lined up Amp Damage before exploding
something, they would overwrite it with Iron Maiden and scream "You are
just here to get my golem killed, you bastard!". Arrgh
>
> >
> >And by the way, why such harsh feelings about necros? You know, you do
> >not play *against* them, you play *with* them. How was it hurting your
> >paladin when your groupmate would be able to help you better, so that
> >you would get more experience in the same amount of time?
> >
>
--
Thundercat
weaken monsters and ALWAYS leave the death blow (and 10% extra
experience) to whoever you are teamed with. We now get gypped
out of experience. Nekkies aren't melee characters anything like
a Barb or Pally and don't have the wide area damaging spells any
more like the sorc and hence can not get in their share of death
blows. Without a corpse, CE is useless and we're left with what?
Bone spear and bone spirit? Not even in the same league as the
outright damage Barbs can do.
--
H. Jenkins A.K.A. Thundercat
Descent Bulletin Board, Multiplayer Forum Moderator
Keep Your Hands Where My Eyes Can See...
http://www.descentbb.net/cgi-descentbb/Ultimate.cgi
Russ Taylor <rta...@cmc.net> wrote in message
news:rtaylor-B7CAFA...@news.cmc.net...
> You aren't supposed to be able to solo high-level (relative to
you)
> areas in a multi-player game. Only two broken classes
Klaatu
<8mfv6h$j3r$1...@cubacola.tninet.se> ...
> Corpse Explosion does 60-100% damage of BASE monster hp now. This is like it
> should have been from the beginning; it was a bug that allowed Necromancer
> to join 8 player games and almost play solo just with the help of CE. Now,
> multiplayer games hopefully make Necromancers need more players to help,
> just like these games are meant to work.
Spoken like a true non-necromancer.
So, it is now better for necros to play MP games alone. Yeah, this game
is just getting better and better...not!
#?&$ing blizzard assholes...
Andreas Baus
>> None of the other classes have skills that scale up their damage in
>> multi-player
>> games.
> how about static field?
That is a point... however, the limited range of SF and the fact that it's
impossible to actually kill a monster with SF alone make it much less
powerful than CE...
--
----
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[Insert joke here.] ----
--
an...@studcs.uni-sb.de (Andreas Baus)
The Dawg
sufficient
>to fuck things up... Every time I lined up Amp Damage before
exploding
>something, they would overwrite it with Iron Maiden and
scream "You are
>just here to get my golem killed, you bastard!". Arrgh
>
>>
>> >
>> >And by the way, why such harsh feelings about necros? You
know, you do
>> >not play *against* them, you play *with* them. How was it
hurting your
>> >paladin when your groupmate would be able to help you
better, so that
>> >you would get more experience in the same amount of time?
>> >
>>
>
>--
>Vedun, 30th tank mage
>Xirin, 31st retired druid
>Xirinia Gusl'ar, 46th tanking bard of Povar, Nightmare's Asylum
>Run fast, die often, leave a well dressed corpse.
>
>
ROFL yeah I can just imagine that, You are killing my golem you
Bastard ROFL. Once again I will say I do not have anything
against necro class and I will gladly play co op with them any
day of the week as long as they are not the type you seemed to
get in with that game you described. The only thing I am trying
to say is this, your corpse explosion does same ampunt of damage
in single player game .....yes or no. It will still get you same
amount of exp in a single player game yes or no. My paldins
sword does same damage in either 1x or 8x game yes or no. A
sorceress spell does fixed amount of damage in game and costs
same mana whether 1x or 8x game ..yes or no. If you go into
multiplayer now it would not force you to party up, but it would
be to your best interest to do so. Before you could go into 8
player game and solo getting 8x exp points and that seems to be
the big whine, ie your spell had=s been reduced to certain
amount of damage per monster lvl.Consider the sorcerous her
glacial spike will still do only x amount of damage and cost x
amount of mana whether it is cast at a normal game fallen or a
hell dificulty Mephisto. Your ce will still scale up in damage
and mana consumption remains constant. I wish my sorceress
spells would scale up so that they did more damage depending on
the monsters lvl and hitpoints. What I am asking is this, why
are you complaining about your CE getting its power reduced,
because in solo games it is the damage is same as always or is
the problem that you can no longer get a buttload of exp and
lvls by soloing in a multiplayer game? Try finding a good
paladin, barb, amazon or sorceress and play co op and split the
exp and kills the way the game was designed to be played.
Spice Weasel
The Dawg wrote
> >I was 2 days ago. Well, not 7, but the other 2 were more than
> sufficient
> >to fuck things up... Every time I lined up Amp Damage before
> exploding
> >something, they would overwrite it with Iron Maiden and
> scream "You are
> >just here to get my golem killed, you bastard!". Arrgh
> >
> >>
> >> >
> >> >And by the way, why such harsh feelings about necros? You
> know, you do
> >> >not play *against* them, you play *with* them. How was it
> hurting your
> >> >paladin when your groupmate would be able to help you
> better, so that
> >> >you would get more experience in the same amount of time?
> >> >
>
I don't see why us Necros have to change classes because Blizzard Nerfed a
skill, that MOST of us had levelled up to about 5+. Why should we change
classes, i enjoy playing both Sp and Mp (when it works)[pre 1.03 havent
upgraded yet, still not sure] i find that all classes are good at Mp, but
the CE, as i understand now is relatively just a SP skill. so my realm Char
with 5+ points has wasted 5 skill points that are totally irrecovable. Now
to add insult to injusry, i can only effectively use CE in a 1-2
MULTI-player game. I do agree that CE can and probably was misused and
abused in Multi player games, due to its power, but why should the
Necromantic community be penalised because of Blizzards lack of foresight. I
mean, c'mon they would have HAD to have seen the IM/BG combo. and as for the
CE, alls I can say is BRAVO, pat yourselvs on the back, thank you for making
my Necro next to useless.
Also i would like to know WHY the nerfed Barbies Whirlwind. If Barbies and
Necros are dominating the ladder then good for them, it just means that the
other classes have to work harder, which IMHO is much more FUN! it would
just mean that a lvl90 barbie and a lvl 70 Amazon would have the same
respect.
sorry to bitch but i think that they [Blizzard] could have done a better job
with the patch.
Sergey Dashevskiy
sb.de says...
> BlackCobra <jbouc...@videotron.ca> wrote:
> >> None of the other classes have skills that scale up their damage in
> >> multi-player
> >> games.
>
> > how about static field?
>
> That is a point... however, the limited range of SF and the fact that it's
> impossible to actually kill a monster with SF alone make it much less
> powerful than CE...
However, SF scales in multiplayer, just like CE did. And if a sorceress
chooses to put a lot of points into it, the range does go up. Problem,
of course being that it's point blank, not targetted.
But as it stands right now, SF can be more powerful than CE. In 8 player
game, CE does maximum damage that is equal to SF's damage. That's in a
situation when the necro uses Amp Damage before blowing up corpses.
You have a good point that SF does not kill anything. But on the other
hand it costs less mana and does not require components to be cast. So,
theoretically, it can be chaincast fairly fast to do boatloads of
damage. Main problem still stays -- sorc has to be somewhat close to
target, which is at times not acceptable
Sergey Dashevskiy
hounddaw...@knology.net.invalid says...
> ROFL yeah I can just imagine that, You are killing my golem you
> Bastard ROFL.
Yeah, I found it much more humorous when I _left_ the game :)
> Once again I will say I do not have anything
> against necro class and I will gladly play co op with them any
> day of the week as long as they are not the type you seemed to
> get in with that game you described.
That's one of the reasons I prefer to group with my roommate's paladin.
We coordinate efforts fairly well, and fight for loot much less.
> The only thing I am trying
> to say is this, your corpse explosion does same ampunt of damage
> in single player game .....yes or no. It will still get you same
> amount of exp in a single player game yes or no. My paldins
> sword does same damage in either 1x or 8x game yes or no. A
> sorceress spell does fixed amount of damage in game and costs
> same mana whether 1x or 8x game ..yes or no.
Yes to all so far
> If you go into
> multiplayer now it would not force you to party up, but it would
> be to your best interest to do so.
Yup. Which sorta disappoints me -- of all the classes necro seems like
the one that is forced to group the most (if there are already people in
the game). It's less of a problem lately, since now it's possible to
actually create a game of your own if you so choose
> Before you could go into 8
> player game and solo getting 8x exp points and that seems to be
> the big whine, ie your spell had=s been reduced to certain
> amount of damage per monster lvl. Consider the sorcerous her
> glacial spike will still do only x amount of damage and cost x
> amount of mana whether it is cast at a normal game fallen or a
> hell dificulty Mephisto. Your ce will still scale up in damage
> and mana consumption remains constant. I wish my sorceress
> spells would scale up so that they did more damage depending on
> the monsters lvl and hitpoints. What I am asking is this, why
> are you complaining about your CE getting its power reduced,
> because in solo games it is the damage is same as always or is
> the problem that you can no longer get a buttload of exp and
> lvls by soloing in a multiplayer game?
I'm not really saying that. I have no problem with the fact that CE does
not scale. That was not very fair, you are right. But sorceress has the
option of spending more mana and still burning things in a big game.
There's not enough corpses around for the necro to do same. And I can't
think of a good solution that would be possible to implement. Each
monster dropping 8 corpses or each corpse being explodable 8 times is
obviously impossible
> Try finding a good
> paladin,
I did
> barb,
I play a few of them
> amazon or sorceress and play co op and split the
> exp and kills the way the game was designed to be played.
Lord Tireiron, 47 barb, open
Sir Vedun, 29 necro, East
Varjag, 19 barb, East
Sergey Dashevskiy
Spice...@optushome.com.au says...
> I don't see why us Necros have to change classes because Blizzard Nerfed a
> skill, that MOST of us had levelled up to about 5+.
Actually now that you mention it, it reminds me that my barb's whirlwind
is at 17 now. Good thing he's retired now, I'd be upset probably.
Barbarians tend to put more points into WW than necros into CE (in
general)
> Why should we change
> classes, i enjoy playing both Sp and Mp (when it works)[pre 1.03 havent
> upgraded yet, still not sure] i find that all classes are good at Mp, but
> the CE, as i understand now is relatively just a SP skill. so my realm Char
> with 5+ points has wasted 5 skill points that are totally irrecovable. Now
> to add insult to injusry, i can only effectively use CE in a 1-2
> MULTI-player game. I do agree that CE can and probably was misused and
> abused in Multi player games, due to its power, but why should the
> Necromantic community be penalised because of Blizzards lack of foresight. I
> mean, c'mon they would have HAD to have seen the IM/BG combo. and as for the
> CE, alls I can say is BRAVO, pat yourselvs on the back, thank you for making
> my Necro next to useless.
>
> Also i would like to know WHY the nerfed Barbies Whirlwind.
Don't kick my ass, Barbs, but I've played one fairly high. With a good
(well, very good) Executioner's Sword, 11% mana drain and 18% health
drain a whirlwinding barbarian is invincible. Literally. You *cannot*
die while in whirlwind. You can be brought to as low as 1 hp, but not
killed. So if your first WW takes out everything (which it did), you
have no chances of dying.
That, of course, is partially my luck. My imbued Exec sword was
outstanding, that may have a part of it
> If Barbies and
> Necros are dominating the ladder then good for them, it just means that the
> other classes have to work harder, which IMHO is much more FUN! it would
> just mean that a lvl90 barbie and a lvl 70 Amazon would have the same
> respect.
>
> sorry to bitch but i think that they [Blizzard] could have done a better job
> with the patch.
What really disappoints me is that Blizzard took up Verant's practice of
nerfing things to balance the game 1) before fixing easily noticeable
bugs, and 2) when the game is in commercial release.
methuselah
entry from the personal log of Sergey Dashevskiy <xi...@tcimet.net>
>And do 1/8th of the damage that they could do solo? My problem is that
>they can't (like others) just burn more mana to do enough damage in
>multiplayer. They have nothing to blow up
Agreed, but then again you shouldn't end up with your entire character
based around one skill (or combination) - it's asking for trouble. You
do have other skills you can use. CE has a useful effect, but to my
mind the patch has made it necessary to use other skills as well, not
rely on only one combination. You used to kill one monster using what,
Bone Spear and (???) golem - keep using them, but use CE to HELP them,
not as a "oh well, on to the next fight" skill instead...
--
methie...
-"Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul,
ash nazg thrakatuluk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul"
Russ Taylor
methu...@redhotant.com (methuselah) wrote:
> Agreed, but then again you shouldn't end up with your entire character
> based around one skill (or combination) - it's asking for trouble. You
> do have other skills you can use. CE has a useful effect, but to my
> mind the patch has made it necessary to use other skills as well, not
> rely on only one combination. You used to kill one monster using what,
> Bone Spear and (???) golem - keep using them, but use CE to HELP them,
> not as a "oh well, on to the next fight" skill instead...
I think the problem the necromancers are having is that they never had
to learn how to play the game, so now that they have to, it's too hard
for them :)
The Dawg
>Vedun, 30th tank mage
>Xirin, 31st retired druid
>Xirinia Gusl'ar, 46th tanking bard of Povar, Nightmare's Asylum
>Run fast, die often, leave a well dressed corpse.
>
>
Sounds like we are pretty much in agreement then on at least 90%
of the points. Cure for the problem all the way around would
have been if Blizz had did a bit better job playtesting and
balancing BEFORE release. I must admit it would suck if I had
invested a hell of a lot of sp in conversion only to have its
legs cut off. If you ever come into a game with a paladin named
BoCeaphus say hi and we will kick some monster butt, co op
style. Currently going after Andariel nightmare mode.
methuselah
wrote:
That's harsh. I think the problem is that they always had this
"strategy" to fall back on, that would solve their problems if they
could kill just one creature. None of the other classes had the same
ability. Mind you, as to whether Blizzard should go changing game
skills and effects for balance after the game has been relreased. I
dunno *shrug*
Personally though, I'd rather the game was made harder than easier. I
spend a lot of time engaged in running battles and Aura switching just
to stay alive at the moment. It's a rush :-)
Sergey Dashevskiy
revives. DAMN! Life is good!
In article <39908087...@news.redhotant.com>,
methu...@redhotant.com says...
> Captains log, stardate Tue, 8 Aug 2000 07:25:15 -0400. I quote an
> entry from the personal log of Sergey Dashevskiy <xi...@tcimet.net>
>
> >And do 1/8th of the damage that they could do solo? My problem is that
> >they can't (like others) just burn more mana to do enough damage in
> >multiplayer. They have nothing to blow up
>
> Agreed, but then again you shouldn't end up with your entire character
> based around one skill (or combination) - it's asking for trouble. You
> do have other skills you can use. CE has a useful effect, but to my
> mind the patch has made it necessary to use other skills as well, not
> rely on only one combination. You used to kill one monster using what,
> Bone Spear and (???) golem - keep using them, but use CE to HELP them,
> not as a "oh well, on to the next fight" skill instead...
>
> --
> methie...
> -"Ash nazg durbatuluk, ash nazg gimbatul,
> ash nazg thrakatuluk, agh burzum-ishi krimpatul"
>
--
Inger Marie
Sergey Dashevskiy <xi...@tcimet.net> wrote in article
<MPG.13fb0c9b1...@news.msu.edu>...
> That reminds me. I hit level 30 now, so I have my Fire Golem and 5
> revives. DAMN! Life is good!
May I ask how this is possible. Isn't both Fire Golem and Revives 30th
level skills?
I have a fire golem and 2 revives on level 32. I have a shield giving me +1
skill.
Anyway, I agree: Life is good to a necromancer. Walking behind finding
items left by your still fighting golem.... The paladin (thorns, thorns,
thorns) and the babarian I play with, have developed a skill for grapping
items while fighting (I have to stay clear of the fight, since my vitality
isn't much)... Doen't matter though...
--ingermarie
Sergey Dashevskiy
and amazon to 32 :) I definitely need to learn how to play the game once
CE was nerfed.
In article <rtaylor-F1E56A...@news.cmc.net>, rta...@cmc.net
says...
> In article <39908087...@news.redhotant.com>,
> methu...@redhotant.com (methuselah) wrote:
>
> > Agreed, but then again you shouldn't end up with your entire character
> > based around one skill (or combination) - it's asking for trouble. You
> > do have other skills you can use. CE has a useful effect, but to my
> > mind the patch has made it necessary to use other skills as well, not
> > rely on only one combination. You used to kill one monster using what,
> > Bone Spear and (???) golem - keep using them, but use CE to HELP them,
> > not as a "oh well, on to the next fight" skill instead...
>
> I think the problem the necromancers are having is that they never had
> to learn how to play the game, so now that they have to, it's too hard
> for them :)
>
--
Thundercat
never had
> > to learn how to play the game, so now that they have to,
it's too hard
> > for them :)
I think it stems more from the fact that we are not given the
option to re distribute points that were invested in CE. Had
they given Necromancers the option to redistribute points that
were already spent in CE, I'm sure the volcal outcry from the
pale ones would have ben far more subdued and in more of a oh
well screw it tone. As it stands now, they are wasted skill
points that could have been used for something else to help out
the party more effectively.
Here's an idea that could keep us Necromancers happy: Leave CE
nerfed but allow us to stack curses. An eye for an eye. Not only
would this help out the Nekkies but would ultimately help
everyone in the party.
Lewis W Beard
> Corpse Explosion does 60-100% damage of BASE monster hp now. This is
like it
> should have been from the beginning; it was a bug that allowed
Necromancer
> to join 8 player games and almost play solo just with the help of CE.
I agree with you that nerfing the Corpse Explosion to some degree was
good. BUT, changing BOTH the radius AND the scaling for # of players was
too much. This is especially true considering the high mana cost. Also,
it has a higher fire damage percentage of its damage total, so its more
resisted. Its too much. I would have been fine with it if they left the
radius alone.
BUT I say all of this as a level 15 necromancer. I dumped 6 points into
it, and after the change, I regret every point. Why? The radius is
awful. Usually by the time I can corral/trick every monster into a real
tight place so that I can get an efficient nerfed CE off, I could have
just whacked them. The radius change is the issue, not the loss of
scaling.
With the crappy new radius, maybe now there is a use for bone wall ...
maybe even a few points would make the monsters take that 1-2 seconds to
kill the wall, just long enough for the next 4-5 monsters chasing you to
clump together slightly more than they would have been 1 second earlier?
Its too bad bone wall didnt work more like fire wall .. call it bone
spikes, and make it sharp barbs that appear on the ground sticking up.
Oh well. :)
Also, I wish they would just drop the Corpse Explosion hit point
percentage all together and just calculate the average hit points a
monster has at a certain level and change it to a specific number. So,
lets say that on average the monster hit points are (MLVL * X) ... not
counting number of players or difficulty level, and lets say X averages
10 across the game in normal mode. then, the spell could do 5 *
playerLevel to everything in range. Sure those arent exact numbers, but
having a message saying "60-100% of (BASE) Monster Hit Points" is
misleading.
Oh well; since my necro was only level 15, I just deleted him and
started a new one that wont bother wasting 6 points in corpse explosion.
With the (mostly appropriate other than radius) changes made to CE, any
amount of points in CE is wasted, because with a reduction in
effectiveness, you'd need to balance that with a complimentary skill.
So, for me, CE 6 just doesnt have enough radius to take it alone and not
put points elsewhere. I'd much rather spend only 4, but put 2 points in
a curse (amplify damage) to up the impact of CE.
Oh, thats another solution that would work; every time they nerf a
skill, they need to take all the points out of that skill except one,
and put it into a pool of unused points, so that you can opt out or else
add most of them back and add a few elsewhere to a complimentary skill.
Lewis
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Warren J. Dew
Here's an idea that could keep us Necromancers happy: Leave CE
nerfed but allow us to stack curses. An eye for an eye. Not only
would this help out the Nekkies but would ultimately help
everyone in the party.
This would be extremely unbalancing to PvP. It would be better for the other
classes to give the necros their unbalanced corpse explosion back.
By the way, does anyone know if Blizzard is doing anything with the high level
necromancers who got there with corpse explosion? Monday night, the USEast
hardcore ladder was topped by a L60 or so Amazon, followed by a couple of
deceased Necromancers. I thought that it had been topped by a L80 or so
Necromancer a couple days before, though maybe I just have my servers or
ladders confused.
Warren J. Dew
Powderhouse Software
Sergey Dashevskiy
psych...@aol.com says...
> H. Jenkins posts, in part:
>
> Here's an idea that could keep us Necromancers happy: Leave CE
> nerfed but allow us to stack curses. An eye for an eye. Not only
> would this help out the Nekkies but would ultimately help
> everyone in the party.
>
> This would be extremely unbalancing to PvP. It would be better for the other
> classes to give the necros their unbalanced corpse explosion back.
Diablo 2 is not balanced for PvP either way. It's about impossible to
balance it as long as most duels last 2 hits or less.
> By the way, does anyone know if Blizzard is doing anything with the high level
> necromancers who got there with corpse explosion? Monday night, the USEast
> hardcore ladder was topped by a L60 or so Amazon, followed by a couple of
> deceased Necromancers. I thought that it had been topped by a L80 or so
> Necromancer a couple days before, though maybe I just have my servers or
> ladders confused.
>
>
> Warren J. Dew
> Powderhouse Software
>
--
Thundercat
news:20000809115130...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
> H. Jenkins posts, in part:
>
> Here's an idea that could keep us Necromancers happy: Leave
CE
> nerfed but allow us to stack curses. An eye for an eye. Not
only
> would this help out the Nekkies but would ultimately help
> everyone in the party.
>
> This would be extremely unbalancing to PvP. It would be
better for the other
> classes to give the necros their unbalanced corpse explosion
back.
> Warren J. Dew
> Powderhouse Software
Yes, give us our unbalanced CE back. I am giving up so much
experience to these other classes by them always getting the
killshot. I play the good team player role and curse monsters
how they want them cursed and distract minions with my golem
when they decide to run away and get healthy and what do I get
in return? Nada. With more players in the game and monsters
getting the huge bump in hit points, my only real chance at a
kill shot is trying to time it so my bone spear deals the final
blow. WORTH :-\
I'm not calling for the castration of any of the other player
classes, all I want is something that is effective enough for me
to get my share of killshots.
The day is going to come that they are going to want the
powerful death mage to save their butts from a hoard that has
surrounded them and there will be nothing we can do but stand
and watch the slaughter. Has happened to me numerous times
already. Barbarian all juiced on testosterone rushing a
(seemingly) small group, getting surrounded by minions and
screaming at me (on the phone) for corpse explosion. I light the
firecrackers but nothing dies but the barb.
Sergey Dashevskiy
@bellatlantic.net says...
> I'm not calling for the castration of any of the other player
> classes, all I want is something that is effective enough for me
> to get my share of killshots.
Revivelings do that very nicely. The lil buggers produce a boatload of
damage :)
Warren J. Dew
Diablo 2 is not balanced for PvP either way. It's about impossible to
balance it as long as most duels last 2 hits or less.
Okay, I'm interested ... who do you think are the strong classes, and who the
weak classes, in PvP, if it's not balanced?
I think at high levels, an Amazon (or at least a Bowazon) will have a hard time
killing in PvP in 2 hits or less. On the other hand, the Amazon should be able
to stay away from anyone but the Sorceress, so she should be able to choose the
terms for the battle....
Sergey Dashevskiy
psych...@aol.com says...
> Sergey Dashevskiy posts, in part:
>
> Diablo 2 is not balanced for PvP either way. It's about impossible to
> balance it as long as most duels last 2 hits or less.
>
> Okay, I'm interested ... who do you think are the strong classes, and who the
> weak classes, in PvP, if it's not balanced?
Here's a short analysis:
Barbarian: Leap Attack makes the player invulnerable while in the air,
and delivers more damage than normal hitpoints on the first impact. The
first Leap attack that connects kills the opponent
Amazon: there are 2 choices:
1) guided arrow. Does not do enough damage, though the amazon herself
stays fairly invulnerable while running constantly. Does not do enough
damage means that the opponent will have time to drink potions from the
inventory instead of belt. Will take forever and be a stalemate
2) Jab. First Jab that connects will kill the opponent
Paladin: Sacrifice has about same one-shot-one-kill effect as Leap
Attack with some less damage and lack of the temporary invulnerability
and ability to escape obstacles like bonewalls and terrain. Thorns
returns very little damage back in PvP
Sorceress: people usually have decent resistances, plus spells do less
damage in PvP to begin with. Exception is Static Field, which does not
kill fast enough (see comment about amazon). The second a melee
character closes in, Sorc is dead.
Necro: Pets are meaningless -- no melee character will fight them
instead of killing the necro himself. Even with Amp Damage skeleton
mages won't kill fast enough. Iron Maiden returns very little damage in
PvP. Bone Spirit is nice, but it's not usual for necros to have it high
enough to kill opponent fast. The second a melee character closes in,
Necro is dead.
> I think at high levels, an Amazon (or at least a Bowazon) will have a hard time
> killing in PvP in 2 hits or less. On the other hand, the Amazon should be able
> to stay away from anyone but the Sorceress, so she should be able to choose the
> terms for the battle....
The fight will last forever though. Amazon has an option to Jab with a
decent pike and connect for 400-500 damage, even with a bowazon
>
>
> Warren J. Dew
> Powderhouse Software
>
--
Warren J. Dew
Barbarian: Leap Attack makes the player invulnerable while in the air,
and delivers more damage than normal hitpoints on the first impact. The
first Leap attack that connects kills the opponent
Is the barbarian actually invulnerable to area effect spells in the air?
I don't think leap attack is going to be very good in PvP, except in laggy
games. It's slow enough that you have time to dodge out of the way.
Amazon: there are 2 choices:
1) guided arrow. Does not do enough damage, though the amazon herself
stays fairly invulnerable while running constantly. Does not do enough
damage means that the opponent will have time to drink potions from the
inventory instead of belt. Will take forever and be a stalemate
Agreed.
2) Jab. First Jab that connects will kill the opponent
At low level, perhaps. At high level, no; Jab damage doesn't increase strongly
with level, so eventually it becomes less effective.
Connecting is a problem, too, if your opponent is running away.
Paladin: Sacrifice has about same one-shot-one-kill effect as Leap
Attack with some less damage and lack of the temporary invulnerability
and ability to escape obstacles like bonewalls and terrain. Thorns
returns very little damage back in PvP
Hm. I need to investigate the Paladin more. I suspect, however, that running
away works in this case too.
Sorceress: people usually have decent resistances, plus spells do less
damage in PvP to begin with. Exception is Static Field, which does not
kill fast enough (see comment about amazon). The second a melee
character closes in, Sorc is dead.
Yes. I think, again, she's fast enough to stay out of melee, though - plus
she's got teleport.
Necro: Pets are meaningless -- no melee character will fight them
instead of killing the necro himself. Even with Amp Damage skeleton
mages won't kill fast enough. Iron Maiden returns very little damage in
PvP.
Yes.
Bone Spirit is nice, but it's not usual for necros to have it high
enough to kill opponent fast.
Well, of course anyone who doesn't bother to take the skills needed for PvP
will not be good at it. I think a high level Bone Spirit will be an excellent
PvP weapon, though I don't know if it maxes out at high enough damage to
overcome the problem the Amazon has with the guided arrow.
The second a melee character closes in, Necro is dead.
Why should a melee character ever close in? In addition to running away, the
Necromancer can use bone walls and prisons. They don't last long, but even a
second or two delay can be critical in a duel.
With a reasonable ranged weapon (bone spirit), and bone prisons that will delay
Amazons (I think they even have to switch to a melee weapon?), it seems to me
the Necromancer currently has a PvP advantage against any class except the
Sorceress.
Though I think in evenly matched fights, its difficult enough to do damage that
all matchups may be stalemates....
Pat Cole
>Attack with some less damage and lack of the temporary invulnerability
>and ability to escape obstacles like bonewalls and terrain. Thorns
>returns very little damage back in PvP
A paladin I fought last night with level 12 thorns killed me in one (my) hit. I
tried several more times, I never survived more than three hits on him when he
had thorns up, and that only once. Most were one hit kills or one hit that
dropped me to 0 red and 2nd hit kills. I have 311 hp normally and hit for
90-222 IIRC.
Pat
Nex Angelkiller: 43 Necromancer USEast
Darth Khan: 34 Barbarian USEast
James Coulter
> Amazon: there are 2 choices:
> 1) guided arrow. Does not do enough damage, though the amazon herself
> stays fairly invulnerable while running constantly. Does not do enough
> damage means that the opponent will have time to drink potions from the
> inventory instead of belt. Will take forever and be a stalemate
>
The guided arrow still could to a 1 hit kill, considering the critical
strike skill.
> Paladin: Sacrifice has about same one-shot-one-kill effect as Leap
> Attack with some less damage and lack of the temporary invulnerability
> and ability to escape obstacles like bonewalls and terrain. Thorns
> returns very little damage back in PvP
>
Charge works reasonably well. Combined with concentration a good 2hand
weapon, you can get into the 1000 base damage range.
> Sorceress: people usually have decent resistances, plus spells do less
> damage in PvP to begin with. Exception is Static Field, which does not
> kill fast enough (see comment about amazon). The second a melee
> character closes in, Sorc is dead.
>
Killed a level 75 barbarian with a level 50 sorc. He was dead in no time.
Frozen Orb and my cold mastery gives a -71% penalty to resis cold. Ofcourse
playing in hell mode didnt hurt either.
> Necro: Pets are meaningless -- no melee character will fight them
> instead of killing the necro himself. Even with Amp Damage skeleton
> mages won't kill fast enough. Iron Maiden returns very little damage in
> PvP. Bone Spirit is nice, but it's not usual for necros to have it high
> enough to kill opponent fast. The second a melee character closes in,
> Necro is dead.
>
What I would like to know, are there any resistances against Bone Spirit?
Ive gotten hit by, almost took all my 400hps.
Jedi_Stu
I don't think leap attack is going to be very good in PvP,
except in laggy games. It's slow enough that you have time to
dodge out of the way.
It doesn't matter if the opponent dodges out of the way leap
attack will always hit. This makes it very good against
teleporting sorc's
Handy Solo
<>
> Interesting ... how many castings did it take? I always thought cold mastery
> looked good for PvP. Why did playing in hell mode help?
>
> What I would like to know, are there any resistances against Bone
> Spirit? Ive gotten hit by, almost took all my 400hps.
Just guessing here... Lower resists, perhaps?
<>
--
Handy Solo
icq# 76zero39three6
Never miss a good chance to shut up.
Warren J. Dew
It doesn't matter if the opponent dodges out of the way leap
attack will always hit. This makes it very good against
teleporting sorc's
Are you sure this is true in PvP? I seem to remember a report here a week or
so ago that mentioned duels in which an Amazon avoided a Barbarian's leap
attack several times, and eventually killed him with a jab.
Warren J. Dew
The guided arrow still could to a 1 hit kill, considering the critical
strike skill.
This at most doubles the damage, and that not all the time. Based on what I've
read here, that won't be a one hit kill. Compare with Jab, which can up to
triple the damage (on a weapon that does more damage in the first place), or
Impale, which quadruples the damage.
Killed a level 75 barbarian with a level 50 sorc. He was dead in
no time. Frozen Orb and my cold mastery gives a -71% penalty to
resis cold. Ofcourse playing in hell mode didnt hurt either.
Interesting ... how many castings did it take? I always thought cold mastery
looked good for PvP. Why did playing in hell mode help?
What I would like to know, are there any resistances against Bone
Spirit? Ive gotten hit by, almost took all my 400hps.
I think that one of the points of the bone spells is that they can't be
resisted. Bone spirit could be dodged in D1, though - can it be in D2?
Alex Mars
>Date: 8/9/00 5:23 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <z3ck5.387$xQ5....@typhoon2.ba-dsg.net>
>
>> In article <rtaylor-F1E56A...@news.cmc.net>,
>rta...@cmc.net
>> says...
>> > I think the problem the necromancers are having is that they
>never had
>> > to learn how to play the game, so now that they have to,
>it's too hard
>> > for them :)
>
>I think it stems more from the fact that we are not given the
>option to re distribute points that were invested in CE. Had
>they given Necromancers the option to redistribute points that
>were already spent in CE, I'm sure the volcal outcry from the
>pale ones would have ben far more subdued and in more of a oh
>well screw it tone. As it stands now, they are wasted skill
>points that could have been used for something else to help out
>the party more effectively.
Unless you are in a realms server you can use an editor to move the points to a
more usefull skill.
-Well, God was my co-pilot....but we crashed into a mountain and I had to eat
Him.
Thundercat
Lewis W Beard <le...@lwb.org> wrote in message
news:8msfum$9bt$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
<snip>
> every time they nerf a
> skill, they need to take all the points out of that skill
except one,
> and put it into a pool of unused points, so that you can opt
out or else
> add most of them back and add a few elsewhere to a
complimentary skill.
>
> Lewis
>
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
That's all we want! Couldn't have said it better myself.
--
Sergey Dashevskiy
psych...@aol.com says...
> Regarding PvP balance, Sergey Dashevskiy posts, in part:
>
> Barbarian: Leap Attack makes the player invulnerable while in the air,
> and delivers more damage than normal hitpoints on the first impact. The
> first Leap attack that connects kills the opponent
>
> Is the barbarian actually invulnerable to area effect spells in the air?
Not sure what you mean. Missiles didn't touch me (fireball, GS, etc),
and I was able to jump over meteors and firewalls
> I don't think leap attack is going to be very good in PvP, except in laggy
> games. It's slow enough that you have time to dodge out of the way.
>
> Amazon: there are 2 choices:
> 1) guided arrow. Does not do enough damage, though the amazon herself
> stays fairly invulnerable while running constantly. Does not do enough
> damage means that the opponent will have time to drink potions from the
> inventory instead of belt. Will take forever and be a stalemate
>
> Agreed.
>
> 2) Jab. First Jab that connects will kill the opponent
>
> At low level, perhaps. At high level, no; Jab damage doesn't increase strongly
> with level, so eventually it becomes less effective.
My amazon had a pike with 119 max damage. Before counting in criticals
her Jab damage was over 300 (per shot, not all three). So that's max 900
damage in one jab, plus some chance of doubling it with criticals
> Connecting is a problem, too, if your opponent is running away.
>
> Paladin: Sacrifice has about same one-shot-one-kill effect as Leap
> Attack with some less damage and lack of the temporary invulnerability
> and ability to escape obstacles like bonewalls and terrain. Thorns
> returns very little damage back in PvP
>
> Hm. I need to investigate the Paladin more. I suspect, however, that running
> away works in this case too.
Yes, running away works in most cases. However, I was talking about
fighting :)
Sergey Dashevskiy
says...
> What I would like to know, are there any resistances against Bone Spirit?
> Ive gotten hit by, almost took all my 400hps.
Necromancer bone series (spear and spirit) are strangely considered
melee attacks and are not resisted. Being magical, they don't have to
roll against armor class of the target either
Sergey Dashevskiy
psych...@aol.com says...
> James Coulter posts, in part:
>
> The guided arrow still could to a 1 hit kill, considering the critical
> strike skill.
>
> This at most doubles the damage, and that not all the time. Based on what I've
> read here, that won't be a one hit kill. Compare with Jab, which can up to
> triple the damage (on a weapon that does more damage in the first place), or
> Impale, which quadruples the damage.
>
> Killed a level 75 barbarian with a level 50 sorc. He was dead in
> no time. Frozen Orb and my cold mastery gives a -71% penalty to
> resis cold. Ofcourse playing in hell mode didnt hurt either.
>
> Interesting ... how many castings did it take? I always thought cold mastery
> looked good for PvP. Why did playing in hell mode help?
Barbarian's resistances were probably lower than maximum :)
>
> What I would like to know, are there any resistances against Bone
> Spirit? Ive gotten hit by, almost took all my 400hps.
>
> I think that one of the points of the bone spells is that they can't be
> resisted. Bone spirit could be dodged in D1, though - can it be in D2?
One can dodge the spear, but dodging the spirit won't work, they turn
very sharp and follow the same target very well. However, they seem to
have limited range, and they move fairly slow, so it's possible to run
it into the wall or run away from it.
>
>
> Warren J. Dew
> Powderhouse Software
>
--
Marshall F.
"Thundercat" <spamcat...@bellatlantic.net> wrote in message
news:d7wk5.1842$nT.6...@typhoon1.ba-dsg.net...
>
>
> Lewis W Beard <le...@lwb.org> wrote in message
> news:8msfum$9bt$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> <snip>
> > every time they nerf a
> > skill, they need to take all the points out of that skill
> except one,
> > and put it into a pool of unused points, so that you can opt
> out or else
> > add most of them back and add a few elsewhere to a
> complimentary skill.
> >
> > Lewis
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.
>
> That's all we want! Couldn't have said it better myself.
>
Ya know, the number one reason I did not buy into EverQuest was that I hated
the idea of Verant being able to pull the carpet from under my feet anytime
they felt like it (and they feel like it often), and now already people are
talking about scraping chars and starting over.
It also adds insult to injury that Blizzard omited the nerf details in the
"patch.txt"..
With that being said, I don't necessarily disagree with the CE nerf, but I
really hate the idea that my char is subject to the whim of Blizzard.
Douglas Rosengard
magical. Therefore using Amplify Damage to help skeletal mages is a waste
of mana. Lower Resist is the only curse that improves skeletal mage
attacks.
For reference, here is the skill description of Amplify Damage from
Blizzard's Chaos Sanctuary:
---
Amplify Damage
Required Level: 1
Prerequisites: None
This deceptively potent curse rapidly advances the age and putridity of any
wound. Ordinary blows will cut through flesh and carve particularly vicious
wounds that fester and seethe.
Effect: Increases the amount of damage received.
Amplify Damage allows you to quickly finish enemies off. You find Amplify
Damage useful on any monsters you or your minions want to kill FAST such as
Unique Bosses, Champions, Monsters that raise other Monsters such as
Mummies, or any monsters that might give you a hard time.
Does Amplify Damage work on spell damage as well as physical damage?
No, only Physical Damage.
Does Amplify Damage work with Corpse Explosion?
Partially. Corpse Explosion does 50% Physical damage and 50% Fire damage.
----
Warren J. Dew <psych...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000809180041...@ng-cg1.aol.com...
Sergey Dashevskiy
> Just a quick correction: Amplify Damage ONLY doubles physical damage, not
> magical. Therefore using Amplify Damage to help skeletal mages is a waste
> of mana. Lower Resist is the only curse that improves skeletal mage
> attacks.
Hmm, thanks, I did not know that... I wonder, if bone spear/spirit are
not resistable and are considered melee damage, does Amp Damage help
them? Chaos Sanctuary does not say anything about it
--
Freaksaus
<xi...@tcimet.net> scribbled on a virtual piece of paper::
>In article <20000809151325...@ng-cg1.aol.com>,
>psych...@aol.com says...
>> Sergey Dashevskiy posts, in part:
>>
>> Diablo 2 is not balanced for PvP either way. It's about impossible to
>> balance it as long as most duels last 2 hits or less.
>>
>> Okay, I'm interested ... who do you think are the strong classes, and who the
>> weak classes, in PvP, if it's not balanced?
>
>Here's a short analysis:
>
>Barbarian: Leap Attack makes the player invulnerable while in the air,
>and delivers more damage than normal hitpoints on the first impact. The
>first Leap attack that connects kills the opponent
Only problem is to GET that hit, usually your opponents will run away
and you will miss, Whirlwind also kills very fast, same problem
though, you need the opponent to stay at one place.
>Amazon: there are 2 choices:
>1) guided arrow. Does not do enough damage, though the amazon herself
>stays fairly invulnerable while running constantly. Does not do enough
>damage means that the opponent will have time to drink potions from the
>inventory instead of belt. Will take forever and be a stalemate
>2) Jab. First Jab that connects will kill the opponent
You take potions during PvP, I always make a rule with the people I
duel NOT to take potions and to go in the duel with full health mana,
otherwise fights can take forever.
Also, Valyrkie(sp?) could be useful.
>Paladin: Sacrifice has about same one-shot-one-kill effect as Leap
>Attack with some less damage and lack of the temporary invulnerability
>and ability to escape obstacles like bonewalls and terrain. Thorns
>returns very little damage back in PvP
Vengeance and Concentration is also a one hit killer.
>Sorceress: people usually have decent resistances, plus spells do less
>damage in PvP to begin with. Exception is Static Field, which does not
>kill fast enough (see comment about amazon). The second a melee
>character closes in, Sorc is dead.
Sorceress really need teleport and attacking spells from all trees,
almost every character has at least one low resistance. For a
sorceress it would be more fair to fight in NM/Hell with lower
resists.
>Necro: Pets are meaningless -- no melee character will fight them
>instead of killing the necro himself. Even with Amp Damage skeleton
>mages won't kill fast enough. Iron Maiden returns very little damage in
>PvP. Bone Spirit is nice, but it's not usual for necros to have it high
>enough to kill opponent fast. The second a melee character closes in,
>Necro is dead.
My barb found that Bonespirit and a running Necro can be deadly, my
barb couldn't hit him and died after a few bonespirits, when the necro
made a bonewall around him, my barb just jumped at him and killed the
necro.
Baron Freek, level 61 Barbarian (ACT IV)
Dame Bowazon, level 25 Amazon (ACT I)
--
For a great D2 FAQ check out:
http://www.diabloii.net/faq/forum-goers-pg1.shtml
You want the TEUNC, you can't handle the TEUNC
Sergey Dashevskiy
g.bu...@hccnet.nl says...
> On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 15:59:13 -0400, Sergey Dashevskiy
> <xi...@tcimet.net> scribbled on a virtual piece of paper::
> >and delivers more damage than normal hitpoints on the first impact. The
> >first Leap attack that connects kills the opponent
>
> Only problem is to GET that hit, usually your opponents will run away
> and you will miss, Whirlwind also kills very fast, same problem
> though, you need the opponent to stay at one place.
Doesn't landing after leap stun the opponent for a bit? No idea
> >Amazon: there are 2 choices:
> >1) guided arrow. Does not do enough damage, though the amazon herself
> >stays fairly invulnerable while running constantly. Does not do enough
> >damage means that the opponent will have time to drink potions from the
> >inventory instead of belt. Will take forever and be a stalemate
> >2) Jab. First Jab that connects will kill the opponent
>
> You take potions during PvP, I always make a rule with the people I
> duel NOT to take potions and to go in the duel with full health mana,
> otherwise fights can take forever.
I generally don't PvP. I tried a few duels against my roommate, and
figured that I don't like it
> Also, Valyrkie(sp?) could be useful.
Hmm, interesting. Decoy might be better -- it imitates the caster
(amazon) exactly, down to armor and weapon choice, just doesn't move. If
it distracts your opponent for a bit, it may be enough to kill him?
>
> >Paladin: Sacrifice has about same one-shot-one-kill effect as Leap
> >Attack with some less damage and lack of the temporary invulnerability
> >and ability to escape obstacles like bonewalls and terrain. Thorns
> >returns very little damage back in PvP
>
> Vengeance and Concentration is also a one hit killer.
Either way. I much prefered the duels how they worked in Everquest
(although it was not *perfectly* balanced there). Fights last at least
20 seconds and up to 20-30 minutes, depending on the fighting classes
and the skills of the players. By skills I mean not the skills of
handling their mouse, but rather knowledge of terrain, knowledge of
their class, and more importantly knowledge of the abilities of their
opponent.
In a few of the MUDs that I've played, classes were also not very well
balanced for PvPs, but as the duels would still last longer than one
hit, they would more rely on the knowledge and skills of the player.
Klaatu
<8mu71q$9...@nnrp1.farm.idt.net> ...
> Ya know, the number one reason I did not buy into EverQuest was that I hated
> the idea of Verant being able to pull the carpet from under my feet anytime
> they felt like it (and they feel like it often), and now already people are
> talking about scraping chars and starting over.
>
> It also adds insult to injury that Blizzard omited the nerf details in the
> "patch.txt"..
>
> With that being said, I don't necessarily disagree with the CE nerf, but I
> really hate the idea that my char is subject to the whim of Blizzard.
Yep. Next it'll be the sorceresses screaming nerf when they change Static
Field to do 25% of (BASE) monster hit points. And everybody (who's
not a sorceress) will be saying "Yeah, SF needed to be changed. My sword
doesn't hit any harder because there are 8 people in the game. Why should
SF take off more hit points just because there are more people?" The same
lame, pathetic excuse people are using now against CE.
Then it'll be the Amazons who get nerfed. "That Jab skill was just too
powerful. Why should it completely ignore the speed of the weapon? Why
should an Amazon be able to take a very-slow attach speed pike and attack
like it's very-fast? We just changed it so that Jab takes into account
the weapon's speed."
Then it'll be another class on the nerfing schedule. Then it'll start all
over again.
Just wait. Your turn is coming.
Klaatu
<MPG.13fc5cce2...@news.msu.edu> ...
> > Ive gotten hit by, almost took all my 400hps.
>
> melee attacks and are not resisted. Being magical, they don't have to
> roll against armor class of the target either
Well, we can't have that now, can we? NERF Bone Spear and Bone Spirit!
Warren J. Dew
You take potions during PvP, I always make a rule with the people I
duel NOT to take potions and to go in the duel with full health mana,
otherwise fights can take forever.
I like that rule too. But maybe that's because I always forget to drink
potions in duels....
Sergey Dashevsky:
Decoy might be better -- it imitates the caster (amazon) exactly,
down to armor and weapon choice, just doesn't move. If
it distracts your opponent for a bit, it may be enough to kill him?
You can tell which is the decoy when it's cast. Its only use in PvP would be
to physically block an opponent. Kind of like a very short bonewall....
Either way. I much prefered the duels how they worked in Everquest
(although it was not *perfectly* balanced there). Fights last at least
20 seconds and up to 20-30 minutes, depending on the fighting classes
and the skills of the players. By skills I mean not the skills of
handling their mouse, but rather knowledge of terrain, knowledge of
their class, and more importantly knowledge of the abilities of their
opponent.
Duels can work the same way in Diablo, too, and I would presume Diablo2 too.
It's true that a lot of battle.net duellists just want to whang away at each
other. But the most fun duels are the ones that involve a lot of hide and
seek, and use of the terrain to put one's opponent at a disadvantage.
Warren J. Dew
Not sure what you mean. Missiles didn't touch me (fireball, GS, etc),
and I was able to jump over meteors and firewalls
Jump over meteors? These leaps are sounding better every day....
My amazon had a pike with 119 max damage. Before counting in criticals
her Jab damage was over 300 (per shot, not all three). So that's max 900
damage in one jab, plus some chance of doubling it with criticals
At what level? A barbarian can eventually get substantially more than that.
For a missile user to beat a melee user, the missile user needs to avoid ever
being hit, anyway.
Yes, running away works in most cases. However, I was talking about
fighting :)
You never run away when fighting monsters? Running away is part of fighting.
You mentioned using terrain in Everquest duels; how do you use terrain if you
never retreat from the enemy?
I certainly agree that a Necro doesn't win in a toe to toe slugging match
against Barbarians, Sorceresses, and Pikeazons. I don't think it needs to to
make things balanced.
Davian
>
> > Also, Valyrkie(sp?) could be useful.
>
> Hmm, interesting. Decoy might be better -- it imitates the caster
> (amazon) exactly, down to armor and weapon choice, just doesn't move. If
> it distracts your opponent for a bit, it may be enough to kill him?
>
Decoy would be useless against anything with a brain. (a d3wd might fall
for it though ;) )
Any confusion it called would only last until you did anything at all... and
you can't kill someone by doing nothing :P
Hell, even a d3wd may be smart enough to figure out *kill the one that is
shooting at you* ;)
>
> Either way. I much prefered the duels how they worked in Everquest
> (although it was not *perfectly* balanced there). Fights last at least
Heh, thats putting it mildly :P
Pat Cole
>> skill, they need to take all the points out of that skill
>except one,
>> and put it into a pool of unused points, so that you can opt
>out or else
>> add most of them back and add a few elsewhere to a
>complimentary skill.
>>
>> Lewis
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>> Before you buy.
>
>That's all we want! Couldn't have said it better myself.
Really. It makes me grit my teeth everytime I see that 13 in revive. ONCE this
was good. Now it's like 7 wasted skill points, might as well have put them into
teeth or dim vision or something else I don't use, since they are of no benefit
now.
Pat
Nex "Weak Revives With Lots Of Points In Them" Angelkiller: 43 Necromancer
James Coulter
> James Coulter posts, in part:
> no time. Frozen Orb and my cold mastery gives a -71% penalty to
> resis cold. Ofcourse playing in hell mode didnt hurt either.
>
> Interesting ... how many castings did it take? I always thought cold
mastery
> looked good for PvP. Why did playing in hell mode help?
>
When playing hell difficulty, you get a -50% penalty to all resistances.
Stack on that on top of cold mastery and it comes out very good.
Think it was about 3-4 castings. It can hit multiple times too.
Alex Mars
>Date: 8/10/00 1:10 PM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <MPG.13fc6fb22...@news.pacbell.net>
That's why I'm not installing any patch after 1.02.
Ykalon Dragon
>
> Sergey Dashevskiy <xi...@tcimet.net> wrote in article
> <MPG.13fb0c9b1...@news.msu.edu>...
> > That reminds me. I hit level 30 now, so I have my Fire Golem and 5
> > revives. DAMN! Life is good!
>
> May I ask how this is possible. Isn't both Fire Golem and Revives 30th
> level skills?
Just save the point you get at 29th level and use it then you hit level
30.
>
> I have a fire golem and 2 revives on level 32. I have a shield giving me +1
> skill.
>
> Anyway, I agree: Life is good to a necromancer. Walking behind finding
> items left by your still fighting golem.... The paladin (thorns, thorns,
> thorns) and the babarian I play with, have developed a skill for grapping
> items while fighting (I have to stay clear of the fight, since my vitality
> isn't much)... Doen't matter though...
>
> --ingermarie
Freaksaus
<xi...@tcimet.net> scribbled on a virtual piece of paper::
>In article <jme5ps0n69k9928uq...@4ax.com>,
>g.bu...@hccnet.nl says...
>> On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 15:59:13 -0400, Sergey Dashevskiy
>> <xi...@tcimet.net> scribbled on a virtual piece of paper::
>> >Barbarian: Leap Attack makes the player invulnerable while in the air,
>> >and delivers more damage than normal hitpoints on the first impact. The
>> >first Leap attack that connects kills the opponent
>>
>> Only problem is to GET that hit, usually your opponents will run away
>> and you will miss, Whirlwind also kills very fast, same problem
>> though, you need the opponent to stay at one place.
>
>Doesn't landing after leap stun the opponent for a bit? No idea
Not sure, But even whn it does the other chars will most likely be far
enough so you will only catch up a bit.
>> You take potions during PvP, I always make a rule with the people I
>> duel NOT to take potions and to go in the duel with full health mana,
>> otherwise fights can take forever.
>
>I generally don't PvP. I tried a few duels against my roommate, and
>figured that I don't like it
I like it, I even tried to take on one of those cheaters with a level
99 char who didn't have any stuff yet, almost killed him but he had
too much hitpoints.
>> Also, Valyrkie(sp?) could be useful.
>
>Hmm, interesting. Decoy might be better -- it imitates the caster
>(amazon) exactly, down to armor and weapon choice, just doesn't move. If
>it distracts your opponent for a bit, it may be enough to kill him?
Why not use both, Valyrkie to distract the opponent, than make a decoy
and run far away, this way he won't know that he is fighting a decoy.
<SNIP>
>Either way. I much prefered the duels how they worked in Everquest
>(although it was not *perfectly* balanced there). Fights last at least
>20 seconds and up to 20-30 minutes, depending on the fighting classes
>and the skills of the players. By skills I mean not the skills of
>handling their mouse, but rather knowledge of terrain, knowledge of
>their class, and more importantly knowledge of the abilities of their
>opponent.
>In a few of the MUDs that I've played, classes were also not very well
>balanced for PvPs, but as the duels would still last longer than one
>hit, they would more rely on the knowledge and skills of the player.
Duels take about 0-20 secs in Diablo2, maybe 2 vs 2 is better.
Baron Freek, level 61 Barbarian (ACT IV)
Dame Bowazon, level 25 Amazon (ACT I)
--
For a great D2 FAQ check out:
http://www.diabloii.net/faq/forum-goers-pg1.shtml
Backup not found: A)bort, R)etry, M)assive heart failure?
Sergey Dashevskiy
psych...@aol.com says...
> Sergey Dashevskiy posts, in part:
>
> Not sure what you mean. Missiles didn't touch me (fireball, GS, etc),
> and I was able to jump over meteors and firewalls
>
> Jump over meteors? These leaps are sounding better every day....
Yup, they are awesome. Level 5-6 Leap Attack covers about all of the
screen
>
> My amazon had a pike with 119 max damage. Before counting in criticals
> her Jab damage was over 300 (per shot, not all three). So that's max 900
> damage in one jab, plus some chance of doubling it with criticals
>
> At what level? A barbarian can eventually get substantially more than that.
Don't remember. Sometime between 25 and 32.
>
> For a missile user to beat a melee user, the missile user needs to avoid ever
> being hit, anyway.
>
> Yes, running away works in most cases. However, I was talking about
> fighting :)
>
> You never run away when fighting monsters? Running away is part of fighting.
> You mentioned using terrain in Everquest duels; how do you use terrain if you
> never retreat from the enemy?
I do run away. However, most classes when facing barbarian or any other
melee class can only win if they make _no_ mistakes at all. The first
time your opponent closes on you, you're dead.
>
> I certainly agree that a Necro doesn't win in a toe to toe slugging match
> against Barbarians, Sorceresses, and Pikeazons. I don't think it needs to to
> make things balanced.
>
> Warren J. Dew
> Powderhouse Software
>
--
Sergey Dashevskiy
spam.som...@home.com says...
>
> Sergey Dashevskiy <xi...@tcimet.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.13fcbc408...@news.msu.edu...
> >
> > Hmm, interesting. Decoy might be better -- it imitates the caster
> > (amazon) exactly, down to armor and weapon choice, just doesn't move. If
> > it distracts your opponent for a bit, it may be enough to kill him?
> >
>
> for it though ;) )
>
> Any confusion it called would only last until you did anything at all... and
> you can't kill someone by doing nothing :P
>
> Hell, even a d3wd may be smart enough to figure out *kill the one that is
> shooting at you* ;)
All you need with a pikeazon is a half second to close it and jab... If
it distracts your opponent for that long, it was well worth the mana
cost
>
>
> >
> > Either way. I much prefered the duels how they worked in Everquest
> > (although it was not *perfectly* balanced there). Fights last at least
>
> Heh, thats putting it mildly :P
>
>
>
--
Sergey Dashevskiy
> Inger Marie wrote:
> >
> > Sergey Dashevskiy <xi...@tcimet.net> wrote in article
> > <MPG.13fb0c9b1...@news.msu.edu>...
> > > That reminds me. I hit level 30 now, so I have my Fire Golem and 5
> > > revives. DAMN! Life is good!
> >
> > May I ask how this is possible. Isn't both Fire Golem and Revives 30th
> > level skills?
>
> Just save the point you get at 29th level and use it then you hit level
> 30.
Actually I think the question was about how it was possible to have 5
revives at level 30. The correct answer would be +4 to all skills :)
>
> >
> > I have a fire golem and 2 revives on level 32. I have a shield giving me +1
> > skill.
> >
> > Anyway, I agree: Life is good to a necromancer. Walking behind finding
> > items left by your still fighting golem.... The paladin (thorns, thorns,
> > thorns) and the babarian I play with, have developed a skill for grapping
> > items while fighting (I have to stay clear of the fight, since my vitality
> > isn't much)... Doen't matter though...
> >
> > --ingermarie
>
>
>
--
Robert
>Then it'll be another class on the nerfing schedule. Then it'll start all
>over again.
>
>Just wait. Your turn is coming.
Why don't we just suggest the following changes:
1. Every 1-hand weapon does 1 point of damage and is very slow
(perhaps 20 seconds between start of swing and actual contact).
2-hand weapons can do 2 points, but are slower. Like Diablo 1, if
durability reaches zero, the item disapears.
2. All spells now require components and do 1 point of damage to both
monster and caster.
3. All armor and weapons are restricted to STR 2000, Dex 2000 and
level 200 as the minimum. The best armor will be Prismatic Skill
Gothic Ornate Easy Plate of the Universe Extra durable. It's stats:
Durability 2 once repaired, Defence 3 (the only armor to offer better
than AC 2), tiring (if carried or worn the character must rest for 1
hour real time after taking a step if his STR and Stamina both over
20000 and he has amulets and rings that triple those stats (there will
be no such legitimate rings or amulets)), and -100 to life when worn.
It is a unique item as it is the only magic item in the game. The
only armor with defense 2 will be Prismatic Skill Plate of the
Universe but it will only be equipable by the werewolf charactr class
in the expansion pack.
4. Only hardcore characters allowed on b-net.
5. The Rouge Camp has been overrun at the start of the game by the cow
king and his minions. Graphics changed so that the cows are 1/2 the
size of flayers so that all the cows can fit on the screen. The
walls, tents, and your stash chest are removed to make more room for
cows.
6. If you find your stash box after killing the cows, it will be
trapped to summon 20 bosses each time it is opened.
Warren J. Dew
I do run away. However, most classes when facing barbarian or any other
melee class can only win if they make _no_ mistakes at all. The first
time your opponent closes on you, you're dead.
Yeah, this is true, and it basically means that you can take advantage of
potions against missile users, but not against melee users, which is a huge
advantage for the melee classes.
If they'd let bows and spells be fast enough to stun lock, that would help
balance things out - one mistake on the melee fighter's part and they'd be stun
locked - but they didn't.
Ykalon Dragon
>
> Sorceress: people usually have decent resistances, plus spells do less
> damage in PvP to begin with. Exception is Static Field, which does not
> kill fast enough (see comment about amazon). The second a melee
> character closes in, Sorc is dead.
>
> Yes. I think, again, she's fast enough to stay out of melee, though - plus
> she's got teleport.
A sorc can't outrun a barbarian that has spend some points in stamina
(the sorc will start walking before even a heavily armored barbarian)
and run (can't remember the name of that skill). Anyway high level
barbarian vs high level sorceress = dead sorceress. Only way to outrun a
barbarian is to slow him down with the ice spells.
> Why should a melee character ever close in? In addition to running away, the
> Necromancer can use bone walls and prisons. They don't last long, but even a
> second or two delay can be critical in a duel.
Same here, he has no chance to outrun a barbarian and he doesn't have
any spells to slow a barbarian down, a barbarian will just leapattack
past the bone walls.
>
> With a reasonable ranged weapon (bone spirit), and bone prisons that will delay
> Amazons (I think they even have to switch to a melee weapon?), it seems to me
> the Necromancer currently has a PvP advantage against any class except the
> Sorceress.
You will most likely never be able to get the boneprison around a
barbarian, he's too fast.
>
> Though I think in evenly matched fights, its difficult enough to do damage that
> all matchups may be stalemates....
daia...@aol.kom
<xi...@tcimet.net> wrote:
>They are. Monsters hit harder. Does any class have a skill that's useful
>in single player and not usable in 8 player game?
Just about all Melee combat is harder in MP. Much much harder to
connect with a weapon, and no penalty at all on that account with
spell casters. If the "To Hit" for spells scaled up in MP like they
did for melee combat, you wouldn't see hardly any players at all
playing casters in the game.
--
Dalai Lama
http://www.cowlevel.com
Blizzard please give us Guild Halls soon!!
OCG member
792 rats squished
123 scorpions stomped
27 snakes flattened
Umpteen Barrels Terminated
Rakanishu!