Grrr. Telekom - an Internet SERVICE Provider? Hah!
Ingo Jankowski
With a lag like this its bye bye Diablo for a while. Today was the worst
so far.
I suspect its Deutsche Telekom, not blizzard. Although the latter
screwed me nicely today.
I found an 80 dmg 139 AR Siege Bow (my current bow has 40dmg) and a rare
exceptional barbed shield, with fast hit recovery, halve freeze dur,
enhanced block (55%) and -1 magic dam. Drop both on the floor in Lut
Gholein. What happens? Connection lost (without lag prior to that). You
know what that means: Game does not exist. Gotcha. Great. Not being
content with killing me 5 or 7 times with lag (and a horde of 20-30
ultrafast sabre cats) in the valley of the tombs, no, it had to cheat on
me in a better way.
Enough is enough.
When pinging europe.battle.not, I get 20% packet loss, and the packets
that make it through are archeological at best. I think I check back in
a month or so, perhaps things will have changed by then. Or I'll have
calmed down a bit. I can take a good piece of frustration, and laugh it
off, but I play for fun usually, and this is something different.
Paladijn
<3A70A3F1...@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>:
>I suspect its Deutsche Telekom, not blizzard. Although the latter
>screwed me nicely today.
It may be your ISP...
>I found an 80 dmg 139 AR Siege Bow (my current bow has 40dmg) and a
>rare exceptional barbed shield, with fast hit recovery, halve freeze
>dur, enhanced block (55%) and -1 magic dam. Drop both on the floor
>in Lut Gholein. What happens? Connection lost
Never, ever drop items you wish to keep on the ground, period. Just
drop pots out of your inv if you need the space.
>
>Enough is enough.
>
>When pinging europe.battle.not, I get 20% packet loss, and the
>packets that make it through are archeological at best.
Did you try a traceroute to figure out where the bottlenecks may be?
> I think I
>check back in a month or so, perhaps things will have changed by
>then. Or I'll have calmed down a bit.
<grin> You don't want to know how some people here tend to react when
our cable-ISP has some "network troubles".
--
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paladijn
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Ingo Jankowski
>
> Ingo Jankowski <in...@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote in
> <3A70A3F1...@rbg.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>:
>
> >I suspect its Deutsche Telekom, not blizzard. Although the latter
> >screwed me nicely today.
>
> It may be your ISP...
game had never existed.
> >I found an 80 dmg 139 AR Siege Bow (my current bow has 40dmg) and a
> >rare exceptional barbed shield, with fast hit recovery, halve freeze
> >dur, enhanced block (55%) and -1 magic dam. Drop both on the floor
> >in Lut Gholein. What happens? Connection lost
>
> Never, ever drop items you wish to keep on the ground, period. Just
> drop pots out of your inv if you need the space.
That's what I usually do. But since I figured that I couldn't use
neither bow (lacked 10 str) nor shield (as a bowazon; the latter was for
a friend) at the moment, and needed space, I did it. I had successfully
muled items like that before. I knew the risk. If I had lost connection
due to lag, and then wasn't able to join again, then oh well. But just
ending the game and then acting as if it had never existed? That just
fed me up.
Its not the Items, particularly. The shield wasn't for me anyway, and
the bow, although a King's Large Siege Bow, well, I'll find another. It
was the coincidence of really bad lag before, then, in a short period of
almost-ok gameplay, zack! Like a hit in the neck that you hadn't seen
coming. Plus the item loss.
> >Enough is enough.
> >When pinging europe.battle.not, I get 20% packet loss, and the
> >packets that make it through are archeological at best.
>
> Did you try a traceroute to figure out where the bottlenecks may be?
You can't find out with traceroute alone. If you see the stars appear at
telia's servers, you still don't know if the packet wasn't actually
ambushed by your ISP already. When pinging the last Telekom Gateway I
got the same packet loss rates as when pinging battle.not. That
indicates to me that the packets are lost inside the ISP's network, and
almost none within Telia's.
> > I think I
> >check back in a month or so, perhaps things will have changed by
> >then. Or I'll have calmed down a bit.
>
> <grin> You don't want to know how some people here tend to react when
> our cable-ISP has some "network troubles".
Myself having a DSL line, I can imagine.
By the way... Playing Diablo2 must be very appreciated by ISPs... last
time I played for 3 hours, I had caused a total of 5MB of downstream
traffic - that is in the order of 0.5 KB/sec - not tooooo much for a
"broadband" connection to handle.
Paladijn
<3A7151A1...@vlsi.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>:
>> >I suspect its Deutsche Telekom, not blizzard. Although the latter
>> >screwed me nicely today.
>>
>> It may be your ISP...
>Both. The ISP first, causing lagdeaths, then blizzard acting as if
>my game had never existed.
Didn't know DT was your ISP as well :)
>> Never, ever drop items you wish to keep on the ground, period.
>> Just drop pots out of your inv if you need the space.
>That's what I usually do. But since I figured that I couldn't use
>neither bow (lacked 10 str) nor shield (as a bowazon; the latter was
>for a friend) at the moment, and needed space, I did it. I had
>successfully muled items like that before. I knew the risk. If I had
>lost connection due to lag, and then wasn't able to join again, then
>oh well. But just ending the game and then acting as if it had never
>existed? That just fed me up.
Hmm, that's odd, I figured you disced for some reason and the time to
return to the game was too long. I haven't had a realm game crash on me
without letting me back in.
>> >When pinging europe.battle.not, I get 20% packet loss, and the
>> >packets that make it through are archeological at best.
>>
>> Did you try a traceroute to figure out where the bottlenecks may
>> be?
>You can't find out with traceroute alone.
True, but it can be a pointer...
> If you see the stars
>appear at telia's servers, you still don't know if the packet wasn't
>actually ambushed by your ISP already. When pinging the last Telekom
>Gateway I got the same packet loss rates as when pinging battle.not.
>That indicates to me that the packets are lost inside the ISP's
>network, and almost none within Telia's.
I haven't seen any dutch xDSL users complain about their connection to
battle.net, but one of my friends has severe problems getting (and
keeping) his ICQ online.
>
>> > I think I
>> >check back in a month or so, perhaps things will have changed by
>> >then. Or I'll have calmed down a bit.
>>
>> <grin> You don't want to know how some people here tend to react
>> <when our cable-ISP has some "network troubles".
>Myself having a DSL line, I can imagine.
Including threathening to throw bricks trough their windows, or even
disturbing their employee's day out? :)
Their helpdesk dept in my town has removed the board that indicated
their location out of fear of angry users...
>By the way... Playing Diablo2 must be very appreciated by ISPs...
>last time I played for 3 hours, I had caused a total of 5MB of
>downstream traffic - that is in the order of 0.5 KB/sec - not tooooo
>much for a "broadband" connection to handle.
At least Blizz minimized bandwidth usage :)
btw, ISP's pay next to nothing for traffic on their own network (just
investments) as opposed to traffic to the US f.i. (IIRC packets to the
US cost 2-3 times as much), so your ISP doesn't care about the amount
of traffic you generate, as long as it's within it's own domain.
SubSpace
(Paladijn) wrote:
>>> It may be your ISP...
>>Both. The ISP first, causing lagdeaths, then blizzard acting as if
>>my game had never existed.
>Didn't know DT was your ISP as well :)
Well, KPN Telecom has several ISPs....
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Paladijn
<1ed57tktjgsei51un...@4ax.com>:
>On Fri, 26 Jan 2001 14:24:15 GMT, pala...@unforgettable.cpu
>(Paladijn) wrote:
>
>>>> It may be your ISP...
>>>Both. The ISP first, causing lagdeaths, then blizzard acting as if
>>>my game had never existed.
>>Didn't know DT was your ISP as well :)
>
>Well, KPN Telecom has several ISPs....
I know :)
but at first I had written "Where does that leave Deutsche Telekom?"
until I read the rest of the message and suddenly figured out it was
his ISP (BT in the UK also is an ISP, our KPN doesn't use it's own name
for their ISP dept.).
Ingo Jankowski
> Hmm, that's odd, I figured you disced for some reason and the time to
> return to the game was too long. I haven't had a realm game crash on me
> without letting me back in.
Oh, I have. :( Usually before discs there is a 20sec space where you
know it lags (no townspeople speak to you , can't drop things or
attack), and after that you see that screen. However, it happened to me
two or three times, that the game disconnected without any lag. Like a
lightning out of blue sky. Your arrows just hit a monster, and next
thing you see is "disconnect". In those cases the server denies the
existence of your game entirely.
Other cases include "normal" lag-disconnects where it also crashes the
game/the machine. I don't believe it takes me 5 minutes to reboot, but
your game is gone anyway.
> >> <grin> You don't want to know how some people here tend to react
> >> <when our cable-ISP has some "network troubles".
> >Myself having a DSL line, I can imagine.
>
> Including threathening to throw bricks trough their windows, or even
> disturbing their employee's day out? :)
> Their helpdesk dept in my town has removed the board that indicated
> their location out of fear of angry users...
Good. Fear leads to Anger. Anger leads to Hate. Hate leads to...
Suffering.
Once the company begins to suffer, shi(f)t happens. >:)
> At least Blizz minimized bandwidth usage :)
They should turn towards telepathic protocols.
> btw, ISP's pay next to nothing for traffic on their own network (just
> investments) as opposed to traffic to the US f.i. (IIRC packets to the
> US cost 2-3 times as much), so your ISP doesn't care about the amount
> of traffic you generate, as long as it's within it's own domain.
The peering with Telia seems to be what is not working. As far as I can
see, the problems arise either on the last Telekom router or the first
one Telia's side.
Paladijn
>> Hmm, that's odd, I figured you disced for some reason and the time
>> to return to the game was too long. I haven't had a realm game
>> crash on me without letting me back in.
>
>Oh, I have. :( Usually before discs there is a 20sec space where you
>know it lags (no townspeople speak to you , can't drop things or
>attack), and after that you see that screen. However, it happened to
>me two or three times, that the game disconnected without any lag.
>Like a lightning out of blue sky. Your arrows just hit a monster,
>and next thing you see is "disconnect". In those cases the server
>denies the existence of your game entirely.
I usually get dropped from battle.net as well after such an incident..
or worse, my glide drivers (I suspect they're the cause) alt-tab back
to diablo and turn my screen permanent black meaning I'll have to
reboot :(
>Other cases include "normal" lag-disconnects where it also crashes
>the game/the machine. I don't believe it takes me 5 minutes to
>reboot, but your game is gone anyway.
Other then the alt-tab back -> black screen bug I haven't experienced
any D2 crashes so far...
>> Including threathening to throw bricks trough their windows, or
>> even disturbing their employee's day out? :)
>> Their helpdesk dept in my town has removed the board that
>> indicated their location out of fear of angry users...
>
>Good. Fear leads to Anger. Anger leads to Hate. Hate leads to...
>Suffering.
>Once the company begins to suffer, shi(f)t happens. >:)
Problem is you may be getting the wrong persons :P
One of my best friends actually works for my ISP, but he's also on the
same subnet (since he lives across the street :) so he'll curse just as
hard when a bonehead trips over a wire.
>
>> At least Blizz minimized bandwidth usage :)
>
>They should turn towards telepathic protocols.
The speeds of those haven't been accurately measured yet :P
>
>> btw, ISP's pay next to nothing for traffic on their own network
>> (just investments) as opposed to traffic to the US f.i. (IIRC
>> packets to the US cost 2-3 times as much), so your ISP doesn't
>> care about the amount of traffic you generate, as long as it's
>> within it's own domain.
>The peering with Telia seems to be what is not working. As far as I
>can see, the problems arise either on the last Telekom router or the
>first one Telia's side.
something like this? (note the high amount of hops.. yuck :)
1 20 ms 30 ms 20 ms e70193.upc-e.chello.nl [213.93.70.193]
2 30 ms 30 ms 30 ms Vlan53.ah00rs01.net.upc.nl
[212.142.25.161]
3 30 ms 30 ms 30 ms Gig6-0.ah00rt04.brain.upc.nl
[212.142.28.122]
4 20 ms 30 ms 30 ms srp8-0.ah00rt01.brain.upc.nl
[212.142.32.49]
5 30 ms 30 ms 30 ms srp0-0.am00rt02.brain.upc.nl
[212.142.32.2]
6 31 ms 40 ms 30 ms srp0-0.am00rt06.brain.upc.nl
[212.142.32.44]
7 30 ms 40 ms 30 ms nl-ams-rd-01-pos-4-0.chellonetwork.com
[213.46.1
61.53]
8 70 ms 70 ms 80 ms nlams303-tc-p9-3.ebone.net
[195.158.234.173]
9 81 ms 80 ms 90 ms bebru203-tc-p1-0.ebone.net
[213.174.71.1]
10 90 ms 110 ms 111 ms bebru204-tc-p2-0.ebone.net
[195.158.225.82]
11 110 ms 120 ms 131 ms gblon505-tc-p1-0.ebone.net
[195.158.232.41]
12 120 ms 120 ms 120 ms gblon504-tc-p2-0.ebone.net
[213.174.70.97]
13 100 ms 110 ms 110 ms gblon303-tc-p2-0.ebone.net
[213.174.70.94]
14 992 ms 1031 ms 1212 ms ebone-ldn.telia.net [195.158.226.246]
15 1042 ms 1041 ms 1032 ms ldn-hex-b1-srp5-0.telia.net
[193.45.0.129]
16 1031 ms * 1162 ms ldn-glt-b1-atm0-1-0-111.telia.net
[193.45.0.82]
17 1052 ms 1071 ms * sto-b2.telia.net [195.198.3.77]
18 981 ms 972 ms 931 ms sto-b1-pos4-0.telia.net [194.17.1.90]
19 942 ms 1191 ms 1262 ms han-i1-pos1-0.telia.net [193.45.5.2]
20 812 ms 811 ms 781 ms europe.battle.net [193.45.3.200]
A while back it took me 24 hops :(
I recall lower pings (~200) earlier on and since the servers appear to
be bad now that might be it
SubSpace
(Paladijn) wrote:
>I usually get dropped from battle.net as well after such an incident..
>or worse, my glide drivers (I suspect they're the cause) alt-tab back
>to diablo and turn my screen permanent black meaning I'll have to
>reboot :(
I have the same thing when using Glide, but I usually can go to
standby and back to full power to get normal display back, saves you a
full reboot ;)
Ingo Jankowski
>
> Ingo Jankowski <ja...@vlsi.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de> wrote in
> <3A77DD95...@vlsi.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de>:
>
> >> At least Blizz minimized bandwidth usage :)
> >
> >They should turn towards telepathic protocols.
>
> The speeds of those haven't been accurately measured yet :P
Maybe there's a reliability problem.
> >The peering with Telia seems to be what is not working. As far as I
> >can see, the problems arise either on the last Telekom router or the
> >first one Telia's side.
Side note: Deutsche Telekom acts as a provider, but has its own backbone
as well. Hence I have less hops, and no other company in-between DT and
Telia.
At least that limits the number of companies that I can make
responsible. With lots of companies, every single one could blame
another one in the chain.
> something like this? (note the high amount of hops.. yuck :)
Its not necessarily the high number of hops --- 100-200 ms are probably
fine.
> 13 100 ms 110 ms 110 ms gblon303-tc-p2-0.ebone.net
> [213.174.70.94]
> 14 992 ms 1031 ms 1212 ms ebone-ldn.telia.net [195.158.226.246]
Thats it. it looks very similar for me (posting out of bio-mem, sinc I
am not at home)... something like
55ms 54ms 57ms last.telekom.router.in.uk
2224ms 2307ms 2285ms first.router.in.telias.net
You know this is weird. Last Friday night I had a really lucky day; I
had pings in the 200ish range, and play was nice. Then, at about 12.30
am, it was like someone pulled 90% of the bandwith... pings were coming
through, but with more than 3 secs latency. This was not a lag spike, it
was consistent. I was in town anyway, and chose to quit. When I re-tried
again at 1.00 am, I had a smooth game like I had never seen before on
battle.not - pings way under 100ms, everything running as if game ran
locally. Needless to say, I was on until 7am ;) and had not a single lag
spike or whatever. Next time I tried it was back to the old conditions
again, or worse: since the beginning of the week I don't get a single
ping below 3000 ms. USWest pings at 500ms consistently, and I started a
char there; Its a pity a server halfway around the earth is connected
better than one just around the corner, but that's the way it is.
> A while back it took me 24 hops :(
> I recall lower pings (~200) earlier on and since the servers appear to
> be bad now that might be it
Try the US servers. The lines into the US are often way better than
those between the domestic companies. Again, its a sad story.