Forsaken VS Descent
Micah McManus
Has anybody here played Forsaken? This game rocks! I just hope Interplay
can learn from its graphics and put the same desing in D3. What do you
think?
Patrick
Micah McManus wrote in message <6jdcbp$4...@netaxs.com>...
There has already been much discussion of this here, and what you said was
most people's initial reaction. However, after playing the full version for
a while now, and having seen more of what D3 will be like, I am confident
that D3 will blow the doors off Forsaken, both in graphics and gameplay. And
the Descent people have always had a much more logical aproach to menu's and
configurability than others, which is weak in Forsaken (IMO). Look for my
post in the Forsaken group "Top 10 irritations of Forsaken" and let me know
what you think.
Mental
PS: See here http://www.gamecenter.com/Peeks/Descent3/index.html for an
exclusive interview by Gamecenter with Outrage Entertainment's Matt
Toschlog, project leader of Descent III.
Chuck
Hey...I need help, I'm hoping one of you guys can help me.
I'm stuck on the sunken ship scenerio. I've cleared out all visible
enemies, set all three charges and hit the detonation switch. Now I'm
completely stuck. I can't find any openings out or anything.
I'm enjoying playing the game but I have to agree with Patrick right
now. After playing awhile, it seems to start getting a little old. I
think Freespace will be much more interesting. I'm not really sure, I
still have some more to go on Foresaken so we'll see.
Chuck
Bill
In article <355a5e21....@news.exis.net>, vag8rzzz...@exis.net (Chuck) wrote:
>Hey...I need help, I'm hoping one of you guys can help me.
>
>I'm stuck on the sunken ship scenerio. I've cleared out all visible
>enemies, set all three charges and hit the detonation switch. Now I'm
>completely stuck. I can't find any openings out or anything.
Go back to the room that had the sliding floor panel between two pieces of a
gizmo. Look up and you'll see one of the lights isn't a light, that's where
you want to go next.
Bill
Matt Toschlog
>I just hope Interplay can learn from its graphics and put the same desing in D3.
Really? I think people would be pretty disappointed if we put an
outdated engine like Forsaken's in Descent 3.
Matt Toschlog
Outrage Entertainment
notonit
So you've seen a couple of hi-res screen shots with lots of bland textures,
big deal.
Patrick <patr...@oz.net> wrote in article
<6jdfa5$fl6$1...@hourglass.oz.net>...
>
> Micah McManus wrote in message <6jdcbp$4...@netaxs.com>...
> > Has anybody here played Forsaken? This game rocks! I just hope
> Interplay
Matt Toschlog
On Thu, 14 May 1998 14:08:55 GMT, ma...@outrage.com (Matt Toschlog)
wrote:
>Really? I think people would be pretty disappointed if we put an
>outdated engine like Forsaken's in Descent 3.
I'd like to offer my apologies to the Forsaken team for any perceived
slam on their technology. I've said and continue to say that Forsaken
is a great game, and I've got the highest respect for its developers.
I only meant to say that just as improved technology makes the
Forsaken engine look worlds better than the Descent engine, so we hope
will the Descent 3 engine look better than the Forsaken engine.
Matt Toschlog
Outrage Entertainment
Sup
In article <01bd7f4c$6b996920$9b00...@AlecPrenter.Probe.co.uk>, fors...@aklm.com says...
> So you've seen a couple of hi-res screen shots with lots of bland textures,
> big deal.
Hmmm ... so 'realistic' = 'bland '?
In that case I'll go with bland any day
of the week :)
Sup
Prescience
>>I just hope Interplay can learn from its graphics and put the same desing in D3.
>
>outdated engine like Forsaken's in Descent 3.
hehe.... no they want all those flashy red and green and blue lights
and pretty purple explosions and all...
-Prescience
http://www.digitalterra.com/homepages/prescience/
D2 levels, reviews, level building tips, etc. etc. blah...
Descentile
Sorry, i dont have any prizes left.
Descentile
Matt Toschlog wrote:
> On Wed, 13 May 1998 21:04:26 -0100, "Micah McManus"
> <big...@northrock.bm> wrote:
>
> >I just hope Interplay can learn from its graphics and put the same desing in D3.
>
> Really? I think people would be pretty disappointed if we put an
> outdated engine like Forsaken's in Descent 3.
>
> Matt Toschlog
> Outrage Entertainment
notonit
Just looked bland to me, not real.
I'll wait till I see it RUNNING before I start saying it's the best thing
ever/piss over everything etc.
Sup <wat...@nycap.rr.com> wrote in article
<MPG.fc504e91b9f39d6989686@news-server>...
> In article fors...@aklm.com says...
Jiba...@hotmail.com
In article <6jdfa5$fl6$1...@hourglass.oz.net>,
"Patrick" <patr...@oz.net> wrote:
>a while now, and having seen more of what D3 will be like, I am confident
> that D3 will blow the doors off Forsaken, both in graphics and gameplay. And
> the Descent people have always had a much more logical aproach to menu's and
> configurability than others, which is weak in Forsaken (IMO). Look for my
Sure, setting up your controls, then figuring out how to play multiplayer
in Forsaken will give you a few small headaches, but so what? You only
have to suffer through it once.
The game looks great, the controls are responsive, and the multiplayer
levels are great. Maybe D3 will look better - I hope so! But in 6 months
all games will look better.
As for myself, Forsaken brought me over from the Quake world.
And coming from there - where you talk about the latest Doom clone and
never think of Descent - the Descent camp reminds me of a bunch of
jilted lovers. Back in the day you guys fell in love with Descent and
promptly forgot about Doom, and waited for the rest of the action gaming
community to follow. When that didn't happen you retreated into the
Descent community and made fun of Terracide a lot.
Now, like the ex-girlfriend who is begging for you to take her back,
the 1st person shooter community is ready to embrace the Descent
(and clones!) world and you all are turning your backs. The point of
all this overanalysis is that it seems to me that you aren't giving
Forsaken a fair shake.
I couldn't play Descent 2 anymore than I could play Doom 2 - I am
accustomed to really good graphics. Forsaken is the hottest Descent
clone out there. Untill D3 comes out you all should be loving it
while making your daily pilgrimages to the D3 websites for news.
OK, flame me for being new to the genre and criticizing the old skool.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
HH-Software Images
>Sure, setting up your controls, then figuring out how to play multiplayer
>in Forsaken will give you a few small headaches, but so what? You only
The Forsaken menus are just... sorry... horrible!! You need hours to setup your game, just
because of those stupid "fade-in". And then always this ARGH! sound effect while the menus
are built, makes me crazy!!
>The game looks great, the controls are responsive, and the
I think the game looks too colorful... Just only "colorcolorcoloreffectseffectseffects-oh
I forgot to add the gameplay". And the missing gameplay is the most important thing why I
don't like it...
>multiplayer
>levels are great. Maybe D3 will look better - I hope so! But in 6 months
>all games will look better.
Not only the look decides. To the multiplayer levels: I think they are all bad. Only very
narrow corridors, etc. Nothing for dogfighters... I think they played the Descent level
"Minerva" too much (if you never heard about it, it is a very stupid and simple 2D level,
where the 3D component of the game is fully destroyed...).
>all this overanalysis is that it seems to me that you aren't giving
>Forsaken a fair shake.
Oh, I do, we played it five hours in a LAN network. Well, we laughed much but only because
it was just "shoot shoot shoot oh where are you btw? <BANG> oh i killed you? with what" -
"Uhm, don't know, where were you, I only saw effects...".
>I couldn't play Descent 2 anymore than I could play Doom 2 - I am
>accustomed to really good graphics. Forsaken is the hottest Descent
>clone out there. Untill D3 comes out you all should be loving it
>while making your daily pilgrimages to the D3 websites for news.
I do not love it, sorry, I gave it a chance, but hey, it just isn't my game... Forsaken is
something like "clone +effects -gameplay -overall_quality". The overall quality is far
less, just because of so things like a) demo recording engine only in multiplayer and only
either the whole game or not at all (compare to Descent's F5 key: you can record/stop
record demos at ANY time of ANY game), b) demo play engine does not even show when you die
(btw what has "play demo" to do in the "Load game" menu??)... c) slow and annoying menus,
etc. ...
This all is of course only MHO!
--
Heiko Herrmann alias HH-Software Images from the Descent Developer Network
Developer of the Descent Manager; Member of the Descent Network Team
Administrator of descent2.com
Homepage #1: http://www.descent2.com
eMail #1: HHS...@descent2.com
Homepage #2: http://www.descent-freespace.com
eMail #2: HHS...@descent-freespace.com
Mike Kulas
>As for myself, Forsaken brought me over from the Quake world.
>
>accustomed to really good graphics. Forsaken is the hottest Descent
This is a good example of why competition is even good for the
competing products. Forsaken will increase interest in Descent 3. If
there were more games that were perceived as Descent-like in different
ways, they would attract more people who had never played Descent.
Everyone agrees competition is good for the consumer, but it's also
good for the creators.
---
Mike Kulas, Volition, Inc./Parallax Software
Sup
In article <6jh9mi$ls3$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, Jiba...@hotmail.com says...
[snip]
> Back in the day you guys fell in love with Descent and
> promptly forgot about Doom, and waited for the rest of the action gaming
> community to follow. When that didn't happen you retreated into the
> Descent community and made fun of Terracide a lot.
> OK, flame me for being new to the genre and criticizing the old skool.
Those that didn't follow couldn't hack true 360 degrees of
freedom: sheesh dewd everybody knows that...landlubbing grunts
are a dime a dozen. Relatively few are willing to follow the
path of the true jedi. Remember: when the fox couldnt
reach the grapes, suddenly they were 'sour anyway'
Besides: wtf are you doing coming around slamming the
old skool. Newbie. (heheh j/k man...hey, you asked)
Sup
Kevin Murphy
In <355cfab4...@client1.news.psi.net> ma...@outrage.com (Matt
Toschlog) writes:
>
>On Wed, 13 May 1998 21:04:26 -0100, "Micah McManus"
><big...@northrock.bm> wrote:
>
>>I just hope Interplay can learn from its graphics and put the same
desing in D3.
>
>Really? I think people would be pretty disappointed if we put an
>outdated engine like Forsaken's in Descent 3.
>
>Matt Toschlog
>Outrage Entertainment
>
by the way, I hope they don't make the same overdone lighting mistakes
in D3 as forsaken has made. I have total faith that Matt and the boys
will again supply us with the finest gameing experience available.
For more than 3 years now on aweekly basis we gather for a LAN game
that last hours on end. No other game has ever come close to supplying
the long term fun and playability of Descent and Descent II.
*************************************************
* Kevin Murphy ktmu...@ix.netcom.com *
* "Silicon Valley" California, USA *
* *
* 'http://www.descent2.com/sickone' *
* Murphy Engineering and Consulting Services *
* and Asylum Engineering *
* *
* "Sick_one" on Kali & Kahn Descent(2) Addict *
*************************************************
Martin
>The Forsaken menus are just... sorry... horrible!! You need hours to setup your game, just
>because of those stupid "fade-in". And then always this ARGH! sound effect while the menus
>are built, makes me crazy!!
Come on, they're not THAT bad.... Okay, they're a bit slow, but I had
no trouble finding what I was looking for ?
>I think the game looks too colorful... Just only "colorcolorcoloreffectseffectseffects-oh
>I forgot to add the gameplay". And the missing gameplay is the most important thing why I
>don't like it...
Those coloreffects are nice :)
I don't have the full game yet, but the gameplay in the demo is ok...
>Not only the look decides. To the multiplayer levels: I think they are all bad. Only very
>narrow corridors, etc. Nothing for dogfighters... I think they played the Descent level
>"Minerva" too much (if you never heard about it, it is a very stupid and simple 2D level,
>where the 3D component of the game is fully destroyed...).
Still, somehow Minerva is the most popular D1/D2 level - probably
because it is so stupid and simple.
>This all is of course only MHO!
Of course.... and what I said is MHO :)
==========================
Martin van der Plas
m v d p . k @ w x s . n l
for a free game : http://home.wxs.nl/~plas0006
Wesley Fok
> never think of Descent - the Descent camp reminds me of a bunch of
> promptly forgot about Doom, and waited for the rest of the action gaming
> community to follow. When that didn't happen you retreated into the
> Descent community and made fun of Terracide a lot.
>
> the 1st person shooter community is ready to embrace the Descent
> (and clones!) world and you all are turning your backs. The point of
> Forsaken a fair shake.
>
The vocal ones always seem to be in the minority - the people who may
not like the game for one reason or another. In other cases they just
may be voicing an opinion about an option that they believe would be
better if changed (nothing wrong with that, right?) It doesn't mean that
the entire Descent community hates Forsaken - on the contrary, many of
us play it right now (although I'm not one of them because I haven't
gotten around to buying it yet - doh! :)
> I couldn't play Descent 2 anymore than I could play Doom 2 - I am
> accustomed to really good graphics. Forsaken is the hottest Descent
> clone out there. Untill D3 comes out you all should be loving it
> while making your daily pilgrimages to the D3 websites for news.
>
Not all - especially people without 3D accelerators or bad ones (like my
PCX2 :) who may not get the full effect of Forsaken's graphics while
experiencing horrible framerates.
> OK, flame me for being new to the genre and criticizing the old skool.
>
No no no, we love you, really! New people are always wanted (so we can
beat up on you when we're having bad days :) and there will always be
people who won't pick up the original Descent because it doesn't support
their 3D card, can't find it, etc. Well, anyways, welcome to our
world... have fun!
--
Wesley Fok
/ mailto:wf...@netside-cafe.on.ca
/__ -----------------------
/ strobe - news on Descent, Freespace and Forsaken!
/ http://www.sentry-tech.com/arsentia/strobe/
\/ -----------------------
Super Soakers - http://www.sentry-tech.com/arsentia/ss/index.html
Patrick
notonit wrote in message
<01bd7fe7$65523060$9b00...@AlecPrenter.Probe.co.uk>...
>Just looked bland to me, not real.
>I'll wait till I see it RUNNING before I start saying it's the best thing
>ever/piss over everything etc.
Well since nobody said that.....what's your point?
The key part in my comment was "from what I've seen". Yes, that means it was
speculation based on the screenshots, Matt's comments, and Descent's
heritage of great deisigning.
Mental
Chuck
Bill,
You da man! Hey thanks a bunch for the help. I found it right where
you said it was. Now you can really make my day by telling me you had
as hard a time finding that one as I did. He,he. Thanks again.
Chuck
ZOD
>Not only the look decides. To the multiplayer levels: I think they are all
bad. Only very
>narrow corridors, etc. Nothing for dogfighters... I think they played the
Descent level
>"Minerva" too much (if you never heard about it, it is a very stupid and
simple 2D level,
>where the 3D component of the game is fully destroyed...).
>Heiko Herrmann alias HH-Software Images from the Descent Developer Network
Heiko is only saying that because he gets pummeled on that level..hehe.
chris bell
Just imagine
A Forsaken version of Minerva!
--
GIG
HH-Software Images
>A Forsaken version of Minerva!
Not needed... All multiplayer levels delivered with Forsaken are in Minerva-Style: boring
long corridors with some very few rooms that are *BIT* (not much) bigger...
--
Heiko Herrmann alias HH-Software Images from the Descent Developer Network
SF...@ti.com
>
> I think the game looks too colorful... Just only "colorcolorcoloreffectseffectseffects-oh
> I forgot to add the gameplay". And the missing gameplay is the most important thing why I
> don't like it...
bingo....
>
> Not only the look decides. To the multiplayer levels: I think they are all bad. Only very
> narrow corridors, etc. Nothing for dogfighters... I think they played the Descent level
> "Minerva" too much (if you never heard about it, it is a very stupid and simple 2D level,
> where the 3D component of the game is fully destroyed...).
now, to say minerva is overplayed is legit; to say it is stupid is
blashpemous...
come on, give spaz a little credit.
> Oh, I do, we played it five hours in a LAN network. Well, we laughed much but only because
> it was just "shoot shoot shoot oh where are you btw? <BANG> oh i killed you? with what" -
> "Uhm, don't know, where were you, I only saw effects...".
man, this hits the nail on the head.
-- biggun
Prescience
>[snip]
>> Back in the day you guys fell in love with Descent and
>> promptly forgot about Doom, and waited for the rest of the action gaming
>> community to follow. When that didn't happen you retreated into the
>> Descent community and made fun of Terracide a lot.
>> OK, flame me for being new to the genre and criticizing the old skool.
the rest of the action gaming community was too confused to follow...
they got lost somewhere between roll/bank and up/down...
>Those that didn't follow couldn't hack true 360 degrees of
>freedom: sheesh dewd everybody knows that...landlubbing grunts
>are a dime a dozen. Relatively few are willing to follow the
>path of the true jedi. Remember: when the fox couldnt
>reach the grapes, suddenly they were 'sour anyway'
and please don't anyone say you need a joystick to be a true Descent
player... KB and/or mouse also work very well so no excuses for those
Doom/Quack player who 'couldn't hack it'
>Besides: wtf are you doing coming around slamming the
>old skool. Newbie. (heheh j/k man...hey, you asked)
More Meat! Mmmm... Newbie steak! =)
Something to be said tho... eyecandy does attract people...
I definitely like Descent better tho... fewer annoying lamers than in
Quack, War2, etc... those that play seem to be, overall, of higher
maturity and intelligence... =) (FLAME!)
Prescience
>now, to say minerva is overplayed is legit; to say it is stupid is
>blashpemous...
>come on, give spaz a little credit.
well it's a very well thought out strategic level. but even Spaz is
sick of it... I don't think he likes hearing the M word anymore... =)
>> Oh, I do, we played it five hours in a LAN network. Well, we laughed much but only because
>> it was just "shoot shoot shoot oh where are you btw? <BANG> oh i killed you? with what" -
>> "Uhm, don't know, where were you, I only saw effects...".
>
>man, this hits the nail on the head.
Me too... that was my biggest problem...I'd be flying along and all of
a sudden... COLORS!!!! "I'm dead" ... crap remat ... "is that a
weapon of a bike?" more COLORS!
I kinda got sick of it after that... =)
Patrick
HH-Software Images wrote in message <6jl6gt$7sp$1...@news.BelWue.DE>...
>>A Forsaken version of Minerva!
>
>Not needed... All multiplayer levels delivered with Forsaken are in
Minerva-Style: boring
>long corridors with some very few rooms that are *BIT* (not much) bigger...
NOT!
I don't know why you are so down on Forsaken, but that is just plain BS. It
has excellent multiplayer levels with very large rooms, complex
architecture, great textures/lighting, and plenty of hidden panels.
And on my voodoo2 I can see the bikes just fine!
I think it's a bit silly to say "this game sucks" based on the demo, because
the full version has much more to offer, and is a kick in the ass.
but whatever, that's just my opinion.
Mental
Hwei Yin
Howdy! I'm a Descent addict who's been playing a bit of Forsaken today.
SF...@ti.com wrote:
> >
> > I think the game looks too colorful... Just only "colorcolorcoloreffectseffectseffects-oh
> > I forgot to add the gameplay". And the missing gameplay is the most important thing why I
> > don't like it...
>
> bingo....
I've only been playing the game for a few hours, but I thought the gameplayseemed cool. You've
got some hilarious weapons.. a missile that makes the
other guy drop everything (!), another missile that pins the guy to the wall so
you can butcher him. I thought the idea of generic powerups that increase
the effect of ALL weapons interesting, and the little orbiting firepower thingies
are a lot of fun too.
> >
> > Not only the look decides. To the multiplayer levels: I think they are all bad.
They are a bit tight. I wouldn't mind some room to really get above andbelow folks to mix it
up....
> > narrow corridors, etc. Nothing for dogfighters... I think they played the Descent level
> > "Minerva" too much (if you never heard about it, it is a very stupid and simple 2D level,
> > where the 3D component of the game is fully destroyed...).
I think the main appeal of Minerva is to all those poor souls playing strictly withkeyboard.
The quality of players in Minerva and Keg Party seem to be a bit
higher than those in Pandemonium (even though I like Pand better).
> > Oh, I do, we played it five hours in a LAN network. Well, we laughed much but only because
> > it was just "shoot shoot shoot oh where are you btw? <BANG> oh i killed you? with what" -
> > "Uhm, don't know, where were you, I only saw effects...".
That goes away after a little while. There is a LOT of color confusion at
first, but I remember that even Descent was confusing the first time around.
Once you learn what the powerups do, what they look like (i.e. which
ones are mines!), and which weapons do what, it becomes relatively easy
to figure out what's going on. At that point, the colors serve to keep things
lively and are no longer confusing.
My main objection to Forsaken is superfluous and loud Generation-X/Biker
marketing. Harleys and tatoos do not come to mind when you're playing it,
so why plaster the box and the cutscenes with decapitations, obnoxious
language, and the Finger? Everyone I know didn't even NOTICE
the game at the store because the box art is completely misleading and
alienates those who aren't directionless adolescents with filthy rooms. This
stuff is appropriate for Quake2 because mutilation is the name of the game.
But hi-tech seems to be the name of Forsaken's game, not body parts.
In that vein, Descent has found an interesting niche of people tired of the
gore of Quake, Duk'em, and other games (I, of course, LOVE all the
carnage, but that's beside the point). I wonder if this had any impact on
sales? I know a lot of people passed up Descent because it wasn't
scary enough (they didn't stick around for the later levels, of course)...
HH-Software Images
>I don't know why you are so down on Forsaken, but that is just plain BS. It
>has excellent multiplayer levels with very large rooms, complex
>architecture, great textures/lighting, and plenty of hidden panels.
Well, everybody has his own opinion :)... Lets try this complaint: the textures most
levels are not aligned good! This starts from the first level, where lights are cut off
just as if it is nothing... This is something, that is of course not critical for
playing... But it drops the quality level IMHO...
>I think it's a bit silly to say "this game sucks" based on the demo, because
>the full version has much more to offer, and is a kick in the ass.
I actually talked of the full version, not of the demo... (I would never say something
like "all levels are small" if I only would know the single multiplayer level that is in
the demo, believe me :) )...
>And on my voodoo2 I can see the bikes just fine!
But its still a difference to seeing a big pyro in Descent, isn't it? Or do you think that
weapons have to be bigger than ships :)?
BTW my reply was not sooo serious... I hope you understood the ironic tone of it, if not,
just let me state you that it wasn't 100% serious at all... But (after posts like
Descentiles) it seems that one has to watch every small step one makes <bg>...
Prescience
>I've only been playing the game for a few hours, but I thought the gameplayseemed cool. You've
>got some hilarious weapons.. a missile that makes the
>other guy drop everything (!), another missile that pins the guy to the wall so
>you can butcher him. I thought the idea of generic powerups that increase
>the effect of ALL weapons interesting, and the little orbiting firepower thingies
>are a lot of fun too.
some very cool weapons indeed... most of them have been heavily
discussed in the past for D3... looks like forsaken beat em to it
tho... gotta wonder what D3 will be like.
>My main objection to Forsaken is superfluous and loud Generation-X/Biker
>marketing. Harleys and tatoos do not come to mind when you're playing it,
>so why plaster the box and the cutscenes with decapitations, obnoxious
>language, and the Finger? Everyone I know didn't even NOTICE
>the game at the store because the box art is completely misleading and
>alienates those who aren't directionless adolescents with filthy rooms. This
>stuff is appropriate for Quake2 because mutilation is the name of the game.
>But hi-tech seems to be the name of Forsaken's game, not body parts.
heh.. you noticed too, eh? damn marketers... usually I can forgive
them but the forsaken stuff was just stupid.
>In that vein, Descent has found an interesting niche of people tired of the
>gore of Quake, Duk'em, and other games (I, of course, LOVE all the
>carnage, but that's beside the point). I wonder if this had any impact on
>sales? I know a lot of people passed up Descent because it wasn't
>scary enough (they didn't stick around for the later levels, of course)...
I really do think the biggest drawback to Descent was the way it
played. Most people were too confused and didn't learn quickly enough
to be able to becomecomfortable with Descent. and the bot AI is/was
considerably better than Doom or Quack, made for a fairly difficult
game on even the lower settings if you didn't know how to fly.
Personally I find Quake's and Descent's minimalist box art approach to
be refreshing and 'neat'
-Prescience
(give yourself a pat on the back if you know what prescience means... =)
Owen Evans
Er, well, I think that Forsaken's multiplayer levels are a bit too
narrow and such. More realistic for mines, though, I suppose.
Of course, I get pummeled in Minerva too... =)
-Owen / OrulZ
ZOD wrote:
>
> >Not only the look decides. To the multiplayer levels: I think they are all
> bad. Only very
> >narrow corridors, etc. Nothing for dogfighters... I think they played the
> Descent level
> >"Minerva" too much (if you never heard about it, it is a very stupid and
> simple 2D level,
> >where the 3D component of the game is fully destroyed...).
> --
> >Heiko Herrmann alias HH-Software Images from the Descent Developer Network
>
Hwei Yin
> I really do think the biggest drawback to Descent was the way it
> played. Most people were too confused and didn't learn quickly enough
I found two principal reasons that scared a lot of potentially good playersaway from Descent:
(1) As you said, the controls are tough to learn.
(2) A *LOT* of people I know get seasick playing it. For some reason,
Quake or Doom didn't get to them as much.
> to be able to becomecomfortable with Descent. and the bot AI is/was
> considerably better than Doom or Quack, made for a fairly difficult
The bot AI in Descent is great. Nothing happens the same twice!
I'm not absolutely sure, but I think the bot AI in Forsaken varies
with your CPU. I casually trash the bots on my Pentium 133, but
on my friend's Pentium 200, it's a rough ride. Maybe I was just
having an off day?
TRAMPSCD
>
> Has anybody here played Forsaken? This game rocks! I just hope Interplay
>can learn from its graphics and put the same desing in D3. What do you
>think?
>
>
I read an interview (I forget where) with Matt Toschlog (sp?) about a month ago
that showed some screen shots from D3 and in my estimation they look equally as
good as Forsaken's, which is saying alot!!! It also seems like some of the new
concepts for the game will put it in a category of it's own. I can't wait...
Patrick
Brenden Mecleary wrote in message <6kdgdd$c...@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>...
>And, it is fun to watch all those nifty lens flares and additive
explosions. But
>are the graphics "good"? I personally don't think so. It depresses me to
see
>this ridiculous use of colored lights and special effects in every single
3D game
>being published today.
In my opinion that is absolute bunk.
Forsaken is much more than colored lighting. On a good 3D card, the
textures are sharp as a photo, the water effects are incredible, and the
bikes/weapons are totally unique. But hey, that's just what me, thousands of
other gamers, and just about every gaming magazine writer says, so take it
with a grain of salt :)
Mental
Brenden Mecleary
I think the question of whether Forsaken's graphics are "good" is highly
subjective. No doubt, they do make very good use of accelerator technology.
And, it is fun to watch all those nifty lens flares and additive explosions. But
are the graphics "good"? I personally don't think so. It depresses me to see
this ridiculous use of colored lights and special effects in every single 3D game
being published today.
Anyone remember when the concept of "fonts" was introduced to the computer
world? For a year, almost every damn document that was written on a computer was
impossible to read, because people used every font that they could in it. Or how
about color backgrounds and text on web-pages? Or the BLINK tag? Or frames?
Get the idea? I think Forsaken is an example of this phenomenon as it applies to
3D acceleration. Fellow developers, just say NO! ;-)
I think Freespace is a good example of a game that takes advantage of
acceleration without abusing it. (I love those explosions, guys!) WC Prophecy
was pushing it, and Forsaken is just shameless. If your 3D card is capable of
some effect, Forsaken will find an excuse to use it.
If the developers of Forsaken are reading, please don't get the wrong idea.
Forsaken is a good game, a welcome Descent 2.5 to fill the gap until D3. I even
bought a copy. But it's a good example of acceleration gone awry. There are
rooms where the entire screen is some shade of blood red, or taxicab yellow, or
some other hideous color. It really is hard on the eyes. I'd much rather see a
realistically lit environment any day, than something that I can point to and say
"see, my 3DFX can render more colors than your old 2D card!"
Matt, Jason, and all the rest of you guys at Outrage, if you're reading -
you still have plenty of time to avoid this. Please don't abuse 3D accelerators
in D3. ("3D<->D3"...hmm...there's a joke in there somewhere...) When you use
colored lights and alpha effects, MODERATION is the word! Make D3 popular for
the same reasons that D1 and D2 were popular - because they are _killer_ games.
Graphics are secondary.
In article <199805252121...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
tram...@aol.com (TRAMPSCD) wrote:
------------------------------------------
Brenden Mecleary
bm...@ix.netcom.com
http://www.gsidigital.com/bman/
Bill
>>are the graphics "good"? I personally don't think so. It depresses me to
>see
>>this ridiculous use of colored lights and special effects in every single
>3D game
>>being published today.
>
>
>In my opinion that is absolute bunk.
> Forsaken is much more than colored lighting. On a good 3D card, the
>textures are sharp as a photo, the water effects are incredible, and the
>bikes/weapons are totally unique. But hey, that's just what me, thousands of
>other gamers, and just about every gaming magazine writer says,
I think Brendon is correct. I noticed that many of the walls use the same
square graphic and when it needs a shorter piece, they just hacked one of the
long squares to fit. Some of the edges don't line up either. Little things
like that bug me :-)
I think the water looks, feels and sounds fantastic. The sunlight streaming
into a room through cracks looks great too.
All the colors used though. I think they went a little too far and did as
Brendon suggested, just threw in what a 3d card could do just for the sake of
doing it, regardless of its impact on the game.
As far as what game magazines say. They'll say whatever the advertiser wants.
Remember Outpost?
Bill
Jason Leighton
> Make D3 popular for
> the same reasons that D1 and D2 were popular - because they are _killer_ games.
> Graphics are secondary.
Amen to that.
-Jason
Michael Vitelli
I think you should have the option to turn it off (and a litle down) as in Forsaken. I
like the eye candy, yum.
Descentile
Brenden Mecleary wrote:
> I think the question of whether Forsaken's graphics are "good" is highly
> subjective. No doubt, they do make very good use of accelerator technology.
> And, it is fun to watch all those nifty lens flares and additive explosions. But
> are the graphics "good"? I personally don't think so. It depresses me to see
> this ridiculous use of colored lights and special effects in every single 3D game
> being published today.
> Anyone remember when the concept of "fonts" was introduced to the computer
> world? For a year, almost every damn document that was written on a computer was
> impossible to read, because people used every font that they could in it. Or how
> about color backgrounds and text on web-pages? Or the BLINK tag? Or frames?
> Get the idea? I think Forsaken is an example of this phenomenon as it applies to
> 3D acceleration. Fellow developers, just say NO! ;-)
> I think Freespace is a good example of a game that takes advantage of
> acceleration without abusing it. (I love those explosions, guys!) WC Prophecy
> was pushing it, and Forsaken is just shameless. If your 3D card is capable of
> some effect, Forsaken will find an excuse to use it.
> If the developers of Forsaken are reading, please don't get the wrong idea.
> Forsaken is a good game, a welcome Descent 2.5 to fill the gap until D3. I even
> bought a copy. But it's a good example of acceleration gone awry. There are
> rooms where the entire screen is some shade of blood red, or taxicab yellow, or
> some other hideous color. It really is hard on the eyes. I'd much rather see a
> realistically lit environment any day, than something that I can point to and say
> "see, my 3DFX can render more colors than your old 2D card!"
> Matt, Jason, and all the rest of you guys at Outrage, if you're reading -
> you still have plenty of time to avoid this. Please don't abuse 3D accelerators
> in D3. ("3D<->D3"...hmm...there's a joke in there somewhere...) When you use
> colored lights and alpha effects, MODERATION is the word! Make D3 popular for
> the same reasons that D1 and D2 were popular - because they are _killer_ games.
> Graphics are secondary.
>
Matt Toschlog
On Tue, 26 May 1998 10:35:03 -0400, Jason Leighton <ja...@outrage.com>
wrote:
>> Make D3 popular for
>> the same reasons that D1 and D2 were popular - because they are _killer_ games.
>> Graphics are secondary.
>
>Amen to that.
Wow...that's our graphics programmer talking...
Matt Toschlog
Outrage Entertainment
Prescience
>>> Make D3 popular for
>>> the same reasons that D1 and D2 were popular - because they are _killer_ games.
>>> Graphics are secondary.
>>
>>Amen to that.
>
>Wow...that's our graphics programmer talking...
Mmm... this bodes well... =)
Wesley Fok
Brenden Mecleary wrote:
> Matt, Jason, and all the rest of you guys at Outrage, if you're reading -
> you still have plenty of time to avoid this. Please don't abuse 3D accelerators
> in D3. ("3D<->D3"...hmm...there's a joke in there somewhere...) When you use
> the same reasons that D1 and D2 were popular - because they are _killer_ games.
> Graphics are secondary.
>
Go read Jason Leighton's little D3 diary at
http://people.mw.mediaone.net/leighton/index.html - you should be
pleased by what you see. :)
> ------------------------------------------
> Brenden Mecleary
> bm...@ix.netcom.com
> http://www.gsidigital.com/bman/
--
Brenden Mecleary
In article <356cf9f3...@client1.news.psi.net>,
ma...@outrage.com (Matt Toschlog) wrote:
>On Tue, 26 May 1998 10:35:03 -0400, Jason Leighton <ja...@outrage.com>
>wrote:
>
>>> Make D3 popular for
>>> the same reasons that D1 and D2 were popular - because they are _killer_ games.
>>> Graphics are secondary.
>>
>>Amen to that.
>
>Wow...that's our graphics programmer talking...
>
>Matt Toschlog
>Outrage Entertainment
I was more than a little surprised to see him say that, too! Hey, all the
better for us loyal Descent fans!
(Wow - I suddenly feel the urge to go turn down all the detail on my copy of D1 and
fire up a multiplayer game... ;-))
Brenden Mecleary
In article <356B2C69...@netside-cafe.on.ca>,
Wesley Fok <wf...@netside-cafe.on.ca> wrote:
>Go read Jason Leighton's little D3 diary at
>http://people.mw.mediaone.net/leighton/index.html - you should be
>pleased by what you see. :)
Yep - just saw the latest update. Jason, you're the man!
BTW, on behalf of everyone anxiously waiting for D3, thanks for that page.
It's great to have someone "on the inside" keeping us informed about
what's happening - much like Volition's Freespace BFOTD.
>--
> Wesley Fok
> / mailto:wf...@netside-cafe.on.ca
>/__ -----------------------
> / strobe - news on Descent, Freespace and Forsaken!
> / http://www.sentry-tech.com/arsentia/strobe/
>\/ -----------------------
> Super Soakers - http://www.sentry-tech.com/arsentia/ss/index.html
------------------------------------------
Luise/Joe Irby
> Make D3 popular for
> the same reasons that D1 and D2 were popular - because they are _killer_ games.
> Graphics are secondary.
> >Amen to that.
Eric
I do not think it is fair to compare a brand new game with one that has been
around for years. Things change and get better all the time, so why should
you?
It愀 the same as comparing Doom with Quake. Nobody does that, they both
served their purpose, needless to say, in their own time.
Eric
John
I agree with Eric, I think Forsaken is a GREAT game but it's not right to
compare it to Descent. Descent's been out for a few years & the graphics
on games have gotten a lot better since then & games have gotten a lot
better.
John
dhe...@my-dejanews.com
Well, Eric, unfair or not, I think Descent holds up more than adequately
against "the latest and greatest". I've just finished playing Forsaken for
the first time and maybe I'm just getting too old to appreciate good games,
but I have no desire to play it again (though I will since I just spent 55
bucks on it!). IMO, it just doesn't have the realism and depth of Descent.
Granted, the resolution and colors are stunning (I have Voodoo2) but they
just don't come off as well (to me). Ironically, things seem "flat" and
fake.
Don't even get me started on the way it controls. Aside from the controls
being a bitch to set up, there doesn't seem to be a way to adjust mouse
sensitivity (only x and y). This doesn't seem to speed up my mouse at all
but just gives it a nasty "jerk" when I change directions. I find myself
running out of mouse pad when I try to rotate 180 degrees. This really
sucks. I'm going to try to play with a joystick to see if that makes a
difference but, so far, Descent is still untouchable to me. Can't wait for
D3!
Dave
In article <6l8qf5$ft...@reader2.wxs.nl>,
"Eric" <NoM...@no.where> wrote:
>
> I do not think it is fair to compare a brand new game with one that has been
> around for years. Things change and get better all the time, so why should
> you?
>
> It愀 the same as comparing Doom with Quake. Nobody does that, they both
> served their purpose, needless to say, in their own time.
>
> Eric
>
>
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