Shadowblade/Shadowzerker: recommended race
Huskvar
of making one but I see more Norsemen than Kobolds in this role. Then
again, being a hulking troll, I may be stepping on the kobolds....
Looks to me like the SB's specialties will tend to work better with
Dex/Qui than with STR/CON. Why then the migration to Norseman?
--
Tahngarth, 20 Zerk
Midgard/Guinevere
Huskvar
cardin...@yahoo.com says...
> Any recommendations on race for a good SB for solo play? Been thinking
> of making one but I see more Norsemen than Kobolds in this role. Then
> again, being a hulking troll, I may be stepping on the kobolds....
>
> Looks to me like the SB's specialties will tend to work better with
> Dex/Qui than with STR/CON. Why then the migration to Norseman?
See? This was in another thread here:
From: Passenger Pigeon <passeng...@email.com>
Newsgroups: alt.games.dark-age-of-camelot
In article <slrnad077o...@12-231-11-54.client.attbi.com>,
ko...@no-spam.thewebmasters.net (Koneg) wrote:
> Minor correction. Defensive skills (Evade, Shield, Parry) use DEX as
> their
> stat modifier, not quickness.
evade is actually half quickness and half dexterity. last week's grab
bag.
============
If that's the case, I would say Kobold is the clear cut choice. Why so
many Nordics?
Jay Bond
wrote:
>> Minor correction. Defensive skills (Evade, Shield, Parry) use DEX as
>> their
>> stat modifier, not quickness.
>
>evade is actually half quickness and half dexterity. last week's grab
>bag.
>
>============
>If that's the case, I would say Kobold is the clear cut choice. Why so
>many Nordics?
WELL, a shadowblades defence is modified by Dex Qui, but their DAMAGE
is modified by STR, hence players are minmaxing and taking the higher
str...
Vireth
Aye. Kobold SBs don't scare me nearly as much as a Norse SB. Kobolds
don't hit as hard, and they have many less HPs (because of a much
lower Con)
---
Vireth Soulsaver
Friar of Pellinor
Overlord of Soulsavers Vengeance
Huskvar
not-for-spam.net says...
> >>If that's the case, I would say Kobold is the clear cut choice. Why so
> >>many Nordics?
> >
> >
> >WELL, a shadowblades defence is modified by Dex Qui, but their DAMAGE
> >is modified by STR, hence players are minmaxing and taking the higher
> >str...
>
> Aye. Kobold SBs don't scare me nearly as much as a Norse SB. Kobolds
> don't hit as hard, and they have many less HPs (because of a much
> lower Con)
That doesn't make sense to me. I didn't think it was a SB's job to deal
damage so much as to land hits with poison and Crit Strike for
damage+mods. I thought landing hits was based on Dex. I get the Evade
thing, but other than that...
And what about Stealth? What stats is that based on?
Also, I recall a thread a while back (can't find it any more) where
someone was saying "go with axe". That doesn't make sense if what was
said in another thread was true which was that landing hits with an Axe
is based 100% on STR (which only raises every 3 levels for SBs) and
Sword is based on STR/DEX (DEX raising every level).
You guys make it sound like the SB is just another tank. I thought it
was supposed to operate very differently from my Zerk.
If it isn't much different from being just another type of tank, I'm
very disappointed in the design on the part of Mythic. That's not the
traditional concept of an assassin type char IMO.
I do understand what you guys are saying though. Too bad.
So, you make it sound as thought Evade has no bearing on this at all. I
would think that, yes, although the Kobold has lower CON, his Evade
ability would prevent the extra hits from landing while he continues to
land his own. This doesn't happen in practice? Poor balance issue if
that's the case. Does Mythic pay attention to these "disfunctional"
templates so they can maintain proper balance in the game? They should.
CM
Stealth effectiveness AFAIK is based on the difference between your stealth
skill and the opponent's level. It is not modified by any stat.
> Also, I recall a thread a while back (can't find it any more) where
> someone was saying "go with axe". That doesn't make sense if what was
> said in another thread was true which was that landing hits with an Axe
> is based 100% on STR (which only raises every 3 levels for SBs) and
> Sword is based on STR/DEX (DEX raising every level).
Sword and axe are both 100% STR.
> You guys make it sound like the SB is just another tank. I thought it
> was supposed to operate very differently from my Zerk.
A tank is meant to take dmg and go toe to toe with a mob/player. An SB is
meant to do the majority of dmg before the fight starts and use weapon
skills to finish an opponent. Personally, I think the emphasis on weapons
and high str is due mostly to the fact that evade will not get the killing
blow in :) Well, that and the backstab base dmg is modified by Str for SBs
(they do not have a thrusting skill option so can only choose STR-based
weapons to spec in). It still ends up being a very different fight than one
with a tank.
Huskvar
says...
> > And what about Stealth? What stats is that based on?
>
> Stealth effectiveness AFAIK is based on the difference between your stealth
> skill and the opponent's level. It is not modified by any stat.
>
> > Also, I recall a thread a while back (can't find it any more) where
> > someone was saying "go with axe". That doesn't make sense if what was
> > said in another thread was true which was that landing hits with an Axe
> > is based 100% on STR (which only raises every 3 levels for SBs) and
> > Sword is based on STR/DEX (DEX raising every level).
>
> Sword and axe are both 100% STR.
Doh! I see where my brain farted here. I was thinking back to my days
in Albion where I was needing to know Slash vs. Thrust for an
Infiltrator. My bad. Oh well. I guess the Inf gets the traditional
sense and the SB gets the more Midgard stylization. If this is the
case, which kicks ass on the battlefield? SB or Inf? How is the
Nightshade?
--
Midgard/Guinevere
"Lurikeen good.....taste like chicken!"
- Tahngarth, 20 Zerk
Huskvar
cardin...@yahoo.com says...
> > Sword and axe are both 100% STR.
>
> Doh! I see where my brain farted here. I was thinking back to my days
> in Albion where I was needing to know Slash vs. Thrust for an
> Infiltrator. My bad. Oh well. I guess the Inf gets the traditional
> sense and the SB gets the more Midgard stylization. If this is the
> case, which kicks ass on the battlefield? SB or Inf? How is the
> Nightshade?
Also, I noticed the NS gets a spell for pulling whilst the SB and Inf
have to spend money on ammo for pulling. How fair is that? How did
Mythic balance that? Or did they? Besides the pull style, they look
virtually identical.
Vireth
wrote:
>Doh! I see where my brain farted here. I was thinking back to my days
>in Albion where I was needing to know Slash vs. Thrust for an
>Infiltrator. My bad. Oh well. I guess the Inf gets the traditional
>sense and the SB gets the more Midgard stylization. If this is the
>case, which kicks ass on the battlefield? SB or Inf? How is the
>Nightshade?
Shadowblade, without a doubt. With the ability to use 2-handers for
their PA, and then melee me with their LA styles, I'm definitely more
afraid of them than I would be against an Inf.
Sergey
cardin...@yahoo.com says...
> In article <MPG.173b2bbb3...@News.CIS.DFN.DE>,
> cardin...@yahoo.com says...
>
> > > Sword and axe are both 100% STR.
> >
> > Doh! I see where my brain farted here. I was thinking back to my days
> > in Albion where I was needing to know Slash vs. Thrust for an
> > Infiltrator. My bad. Oh well. I guess the Inf gets the traditional
> > sense and the SB gets the more Midgard stylization. If this is the
> > case, which kicks ass on the battlefield? SB or Inf? How is the
> > Nightshade?
>
> Also, I noticed the NS gets a spell for pulling whilst the SB and Inf
> have to spend money on ammo for pulling.
Uuh... I buy long range throwing knives to pull when soloing. Costs me
18 copper per stack. I'm not quite THAT broke as to not afford this
> How fair is that? How did
> Mythic balance that? Or did they? Besides the pull style, they look
> virtually identical.
They are grossly different. SBs get more hitpoints and get to use two
handers, or get to be a mini-serker with awesome left axe styles. NS's
are more of a caster, they get insta-dd shout that deals small damage,
but is mostly used to break stealth of enemy stealthers. Infiltrators
get 2.5x skill points, and actually CAN excell in all 5 skills. So yes,
they're quite different
Sergey
cardin...@yahoo.com says...
> That doesn't make sense to me. I didn't think it was a SB's job to deal
> damage
What would be the use of an SB in a group then? They don't tank, they
don't heal. And it's not their job to deal damage?
> so much as to land hits with poison and Crit Strike for
> damage+mods.
For damage+mods? So their job IS to deal damage after all :P
> I thought landing hits was based on Dex.
It's not. It's based on weapon skill and level
> I get the Evade thing, but other than that...
>
> And what about Stealth? What stats is that based on?
No stat, just skill level
> You guys make it sound like the SB is just another tank. I thought it
> was supposed to operate very differently from my Zerk.
They do, they do. They can't tank very well, but they can deal more
damage (well, shadowserkers can). And in RvR they have the advantage of
having some stealth, unlike berserkers
> If it isn't much different from being just another type of tank,
If tank's main purpose is to deal damage, then Albion's best tank is a
friar. But tank's main purpose is actually *tanking*, i.e. soaking up
damage in an efficient fashion. Something rogues cannot do
> I'm very disappointed in the design on the part of Mythic. That's not the
> traditional concept of an assassin type char IMO.
Actually it's pretty close, you just didn't get it right :P
> So, you make it sound as thought Evade has no bearing on this at all.
Evade does work wonders... Level 50 shadowblade with maxed Dodger will
evade about 60% of the time against high yellows in PvE. But then again,
at 50 any race shadowblade will likely have maxed both dex and qui.
Another way to look at it, in RvR when people use styles against you,
the chance to evade is tremendously lowered. So it matters less
> I would think that, yes, although the Kobold has lower CON, his Evade
> ability would prevent the extra hits from landing while he continues to
> land his own.
In RvR the difference may be enough to choose whether or not you're
about to be one-shot by another assassin or that big armsman with a
halberd
> This doesn't happen in practice? Poor balance issue if
> that's the case.
In PvE it does kinda balance out. But then you see that a norse Sb can
carry more stuff before going off to sell, and deals more damage since
all their weapons are strength based.
> Does Mythic pay attention to these "disfunctional"
> templates so they can maintain proper balance in the game? They should.
They do. It's a bit early to be judgemental of Mythic before learning
how the class works though. No offense
Huskvar
xi...@nospam.tcimet.net says...
> > That doesn't make sense to me. I didn't think it was a SB's job to deal
> > damage
>
> What would be the use of an SB in a group then? They don't tank, they
> don't heal. And it's not their job to deal damage?
>
> > so much as to land hits with poison and Crit Strike for
> > damage+mods.
>
> For damage+mods? So their job IS to deal damage after all :P
Didn't make myself clear on this. I play a Zerker. I know what it
means to deal damage.
However, playing with 2 SBs last night, both using 2H Swords exclusively
while grouping, I got to see first hand what everyone has been talking
about. I am also noticing that I have never seen even 1 kobold SB.
That being said, I deleted and restarted.
So, rather than think that each assassin class in each realm is
virtually the same, I stuck around, payed attention, asked the right
questions and got the right answers. Now I see that SBs are almost as
good as me at dealing damage *for the first hit or 2*. But I still
reign supreme for damage dealing as a Zerk in the long run. I usually
draw aggro.
Now that I understand the significance of using a 2H for that very first
BS, it all starts to make sense now. Wicked blow! So, now the Fire
Charred Mask also makes sense. Add STR to Assassin class? What the
heck for? Now I get it!
See, gimme time and things will eventually soak in. But, as with most
of my learning I actually have to see these things in practice before I
start to believe. I work with software developers and project managers.
I have seen people speculate themselves into a corner before. Now I see
that this is not speculation in here. Raw experience counts for
everything.
So, my new SB is Norse, added +10 to STR/DEX/QUI (seemed to be a common
template). I am sticking with Sword. At 3 not much to see yet.
Started her this morning before coming here. Working better I can
already see that.
As soon as I hit 5, out comes the 2H sword!
Here's a question of curiosity:
I know that the 2 SBs that grouped with me last night were using their
2H exclusively because if they switched to sword/LA they would have
interrupted their precious BS chain. But, is there ever a reason, even
solo, to switch from your 2H after your initial BS, to a 1H and LA?
Perhaps have either loaded with some form of Venom for emergencies?
Snare venom or STR debuff perhaps?
>
> > I thought landing hits was based on Dex.
>
> It's not. It's based on weapon skill and level
Eventually this will soak in.
>
> > I get the Evade thing, but other than that...
> >
> > And what about Stealth? What stats is that based on?
>
> No stat, just skill level
This too..
>
> > You guys make it sound like the SB is just another tank. I thought it
> > was supposed to operate very differently from my Zerk.
>
> They do, they do. They can't tank very well, but they can deal more
> damage (well, shadowserkers can). And in RvR they have the advantage of
> having some stealth, unlike berserkers
Am seeing this first hand now.
>
> > If it isn't much different from being just another type of tank,
>
> If tank's main purpose is to deal damage, then Albion's best tank is a
> friar. But tank's main purpose is actually *tanking*, i.e. soaking up
> damage in an efficient fashion. Something rogues cannot do
Eww. I thought it was dealing damage. Uh oh. N00bness showing again.
(turn around)
OK, so then my Zerker is pretty good for that then but not as good a
tank as a Warrior I think then. The Warrior can wear chain and, if a
troll, I would imagine should have nearly as much HP as me if not more?
>
> > I'm very disappointed in the design on the part of Mythic. That's not the
> > traditional concept of an assassin type char IMO.
>
> Actually it's pretty close, you just didn't get it right :P
Yup. My bad.
>
> > So, you make it sound as thought Evade has no bearing on this at all.
>
> Evade does work wonders... Level 50 shadowblade with maxed Dodger will
> evade about 60% of the time against high yellows in PvE. But then again,
> at 50 any race shadowblade will likely have maxed both dex and qui.
> Another way to look at it, in RvR when people use styles against you,
> the chance to evade is tremendously lowered. So it matters less
Good to know.
>
> > I would think that, yes, although the Kobold has lower CON, his Evade
> > ability would prevent the extra hits from landing while he continues to
> > land his own.
>
> In RvR the difference may be enough to choose whether or not you're
> about to be one-shot by another assassin or that big armsman with a
> halberd
So, a diff of 20 Con points can make that much difference in HP total?
What's the formula for HP totals? I thought it was based on Con and
vaguely on class.
>
> > This doesn't happen in practice? Poor balance issue if
> > that's the case.
>
> In PvE it does kinda balance out. But then you see that a norse Sb can
> carry more stuff before going off to sell, and deals more damage since
> all their weapons are strength based.
Hmmm. So, the kobold SB is a gimp? Bad balancing per Mythic?
>
> > Does Mythic pay attention to these "disfunctional"
> > templates so they can maintain proper balance in the game? They should.
>
> They do. It's a bit early to be judgemental of Mythic before learning
> how the class works though. No offense
None taken. But, I thought this game had been out for a while already.
I didn't think I got in that early.
--
Midgard/Guinevere
"When situation get hairy...so do I! >-D"
- Tahngarth, 21 Zerk
Danny
> > about to be one-shot by another assassin or that big armsman with a
> > halberd
> So, a diff of 20 Con points can make that much difference in HP total?
> What's the formula for HP totals? I thought it was based on Con and
> vaguely on class.
Hijacked! =)
Gabriel had posted awhile back that each point of Con gives roughly 5.6
hp to a lv 50 caster. Being lv 41 now, I'm noticing _zero_ difference.
I have gotten +2 hp per point of Con since level 7...And I'm still
getting +2 hp per Con at 41. Granted, the graph may be flat and ramp
SHARPLY upwards for 45+ or something...but, barring that, I have not
seen that there is any truth to what Gabe said about Con. =( Can anyone
shed any light on this?
--
Torpal
Fenian Order
41st Enchanter Palomides
Gabriel
"Danny" <danpack_no@spam_comcast.net> wrote in message
news:3CD2CDBB.3FBC0D0D@spam_comcast.net...
> Gabriel had posted awhile back that each point of Con gives roughly
5.6
> hp to a lv 50 caster. Being lv 41 now, I'm noticing _zero_
difference.
> I have gotten +2 hp per point of Con since level 7...And I'm still
> getting +2 hp per Con at 41. Granted, the graph may be flat and
ramp
> SHARPLY upwards for 45+ or something...but, barring that, I have not
> seen that there is any truth to what Gabe said about Con. =( Can
anyone
> shed any light on this?
Please note down your unbuffed con and HPs, then get a big priestly
con buff and note changes to both. Post results and I'll investigate
from there.
Huskvar
danpack_no@spam_comcast.net says...
> Hijacked! =)
>
> Gabriel had posted awhile back that each point of Con gives roughly 5.6
> hp to a lv 50 caster. Being lv 41 now, I'm noticing _zero_ difference.
> I have gotten +2 hp per point of Con since level 7...And I'm still
> getting +2 hp per Con at 41. Granted, the graph may be flat and ramp
> SHARPLY upwards for 45+ or something...but, barring that, I have not
> seen that there is any truth to what Gabe said about Con. =( Can anyone
> shed any light on this?
Well, I DO know that my Troll Zerker, who sarted the game with 80 Con,
gets about 20-30 HP with each level. That has been constant since level
1. My friends who have never played a troll-zerker are still amazed by
that. I am level 21 and have almost 490 hp now! :)
Tell ya what, next time I am close to level, I will relog and go solo
with no buffs. That way I can calculate it exactly. Then again at 22-
23 to see if it changes.
Danny
I was speaking of buffs from items...A +10 Con lv 38 (100% condition)
cloak gives me 20 hp, and has for 3 levels since I got it. I'll make a
note of my exact HP and Con, then get a Drood Con buff (or 2) and note
all results...I'll post it tomorrow.
Stig Sandbeck Mathisen
> Looks to me like the SB's specialties will tend to work better with
> Dex/Qui than with STR/CON. Why then the migration to Norseman?
Kobolds are blue and ugly.
--
Stig Sandbeck Mathisen
Suppressionist/Shadowzerker, Morgan Le Fay
Stig Sandbeck Mathisen
> Uuh... I buy long range throwing knives to pull when soloing. Costs
> me 18 copper per stack. I'm not quite THAT broke as to not afford
> this
Also, with a 2s throw time, they can be used for distracting casters
too. :-)
Huskvar
> > Uuh... I buy long range throwing knives to pull when soloing. Costs
> > me 18 copper per stack. I'm not quite THAT broke as to not afford
> > this
>
> Also, with a 2s throw time, they can be used for distracting casters
> too. :-)
Hey! Hadn't thought of that! Great!
--
Midgard/Guinevere
Tahngarth, 21 Zerk
"Whoa..."
- Keanu Reeves
discon
> > Looks to me like the SB's specialties will tend to work better with
> > Dex/Qui than with STR/CON. Why then the migration to Norseman?
>
> Kobolds are blue and ugly.
Norsemen are slower, and quickness is particularly bad for critblades.
(Hopefully they'll fix that) Not sure how critical damage is figured,
but I'm guessing it isn't dex based, and unlike other realms, SB weapon
choices are all str based. And having the extra health certainly helps.
The only disadvantage to a norse SB that I know of is that evasion is
definately dex based, but maybe not so much that the 20 point difference
will make much difference.
.
Stig Sandbeck Mathisen
> Norsemen are slower, and quickness is particularly bad for
> critblades. (Hopefully they'll fix that) Not sure how critical
> damage is figured, but I'm guessing it isn't dex based, and unlike
> other realms, SB weapon choices are all str based.
Might be. I don't use criticals, so I don't see any of that.
> And having the extra health certainly helps.
Yes. I'm not impressed by the armour. :-)
> The only disadvantage to a norse SB that I know of is that evasion
> is definately dex based, but maybe not so much that the 20 point
> difference will make much difference.
On camelotherald they just said that Evade is dex and qui based. A
kobold will have a larger evasion rate due to the stats, but as a
norseman, I have more hitpoints to compensate. I also believe my
strength is better.
Huskvar
> > The only disadvantage to a norse SB that I know of is that evasion
> > is definately dex based, but maybe not so much that the 20 point
> > difference will make much difference.
>
> On camelotherald they just said that Evade is dex and qui based. A
> kobold will have a larger evasion rate due to the stats, but as a
> norseman, I have more hitpoints to compensate. I also believe my
> strength is better.
Not only that, folks in here are saying that in RvR, Evasion doesn't
really get enough excersize, but HP sure does!
Otara
>hp to a lv 50 caster. Being lv 41 now, I'm noticing _zero_ difference.
>I have gotten +2 hp per point of Con since level 7...And I'm still
>getting +2 hp per Con at 41. Granted, the graph may be flat and ramp
>SHARPLY upwards for 45+ or something...but, barring that, I have not
>seen that there is any truth to what Gabe said about Con. =( Can anyone
>shed any light on this?
Seems to depend on starting con I think? As an Elf Im pretty sure I
wasnt getting 5 points, I'll check later.
But forgetting the exact numbers, maxing HP/Con is most certainly
worth it IMO.
Otara
Passenger Pigeon
<cardin...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Here's a question of curiosity:
> I know that the 2 SBs that grouped with me last night were using their
> 2H exclusively because if they switched to sword/LA they would have
> interrupted their precious BS chain. But, is there ever a reason, even
> solo, to switch from your 2H after your initial BS, to a 1H and LA?
> Perhaps have either loaded with some form of Venom for emergencies?
> Snare venom or STR debuff perhaps?
primarily, yes, this is why people switch weapons -- to land three
venoms. always fun. this is ANOTHER place SBs have it all over their
counterparts -- Left Axe always swings, and they don't have to do much
damage, they just have to land the hit. (this is mainly just
conjecture, since my shadowblade is 5th, and I have no idea whether
you'll start missing like crazy with your left hand if you don't spec in
LA. hopefully.)
> OK, so then my Zerker is pretty good for that then but not as good a
> tank as a Warrior I think then. The Warrior can wear chain and, if a
> troll, I would imagine should have nearly as much HP as me if not more?
main tanks generally have notably more hit points than their light tank
brethren.
> > at 50 any race shadowblade will likely have maxed both dex and qui.
> Good to know.
uh, yeah, but stat caps operate independently of race. so yes, a kobold
and a norseman will both have maxed dex and qui, but they'll have maxed
them thirty points apart.
--
William Burke, passeng...@email.com if god wore tshirts
"Many people include in their signatures contact information, and perhaps
a joke or quotation." -- Simon Fraser Go Slugs!
http://www.passengerpigeon.net (not com, not org)
discon
> > > at 50 any race shadowblade will likely have maxed both dex and qui.
> > Good to know.
>
> uh, yeah, but stat caps operate independently of race. so yes, a kobold
> and a norseman will both have maxed dex and qui, but they'll have maxed
> them thirty points apart.
The above comments are unclear to me. Sorry if I'm redundant, but to
clarify, stat caps are based on both class and race. A kobold SB will
have a higher dex/qck cap than a norse SB. Norse SB will have a higher
str/con cap.
.
Jay Bond
Stat Caps have nothing to do with Race nor Class, they are level based
only.
That being said, each Race/Class/Character will have a different
ABSOLUTE cap based on what he chooses to add his 30 points to at Char
select, and what his promary Secondary Tetiary Stats are.
So a Level 50 Shadowblade naked, with 150 str, can have 75 more using
items, 75 more from a dual stat buiff, and 50 more from a single stat
buff, giving him an absolute max of 350....
Passenger Pigeon
<bo...@home.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 04 May 2002 07:32:45 GMT, discon <c...@e.invalid> wrote:
>
> >In alt.games.dark-age-of-camelot, Passenger Pigeon commented:
> >
> >> uh, yeah, but stat caps operate independently of race. so yes, a
> >
> >The above comments are unclear to me. Sorry if I'm redundant, but to
> >clarify, stat caps are based on both class and race. A kobold SB will
>
>
> Stat Caps have nothing to do with Race nor Class, they are level based
> only.
in the composition of my original reply, I passed through both these
forms of explanation before settling on the one I chose. it's a
confusing topic.
sorry for the lack of clarity. all the people I'm responding to are
correct. base stats are affected by race, class and level. the amount
any base stat can be increased through items and buffs is affected by
level only.
Sergey
cardin...@yahoo.com says...
> > For damage+mods? So their job IS to deal damage after all :P
> Didn't make myself clear on this. I play a Zerker. I know what it
> means to deal damage.
Well, no offense, but it's hard to compare anything to a berserker. They
are by far the best damage dealers in the game. If a shadowserker
produces 90% of the melee damage output of a berserker, they are still
doing very well, and possibly outdamaging most other meleers in the game
> However, playing with 2 SBs last night, both using 2H Swords exclusively
> while grouping, I got to see first hand what everyone has been talking
> about. I am also noticing that I have never seen even 1 kobold SB.
> That being said, I deleted and restarted.
I've seen some kobolds. They do have class. Not possibly best from
minmaxing perspective, but they have their place :)
> So, rather than think that each assassin class in each realm is
> virtually the same, I stuck around, payed attention, asked the right
> questions and got the right answers. Now I see that SBs are almost as
> good as me at dealing damage *for the first hit or 2*. But I still
> reign supreme for damage dealing as a Zerk in the long run. I usually
> draw aggro.
Wait a second. Are you only counting melee or alltogether damage?
Shadowserker will outdamage a straight 'serker, if you take poison into
consideration :P
> So, my new SB is Norse, added +10 to STR/DEX/QUI (seemed to be a common
> template).
Very nice. I went with str/con only, but in the end it won't matter
either way
> Here's a question of curiosity:
> I know that the 2 SBs that grouped with me last night were using their
> 2H exclusively because if they switched to sword/LA they would have
> interrupted their precious BS chain.
Actually no. I'm almost positive that you can BS with one weapon, switch
to other and continue the chain. Some people do that to switch poisons
> But, is there ever a reason, even
> solo, to switch from your 2H after your initial BS, to a 1H and LA?
Yes. Left Axe styles are wicked. I don't know if you tried, but login
your berserker and try to use only axe styles. See how much it cuts your
damage. The left axe styles allow shadowzerkers to start outdamaging
critblades as of 3rd round. And 3rd rounds for SZ's is much sooner than
for critblades with a heavy twohander
> Perhaps have either loaded with some form of Venom for emergencies?
> Snare venom or STR debuff perhaps?
You may want to keep a crap weapon equipped in a slot you don't use, and
put snare poison on it. I'm a SZ, and only use left axe styles. Yet I
carry a bronze 2h axe with snare on it, and can't count the number of
times it saved my ass
> >
>
Sergey
@news.la.sbcglobal.net>, passeng...@email.com says...
> > OK, so then my Zerker is pretty good for that then but not as good a
> > tank as a Warrior I think then. The Warrior can wear chain and, if a
> > troll, I would imagine should have nearly as much HP as me if not more?
>
> main tanks generally have notably more hit points than their light tank
> brethren.
Actually berserkers have same hp as warriors, armsmen same as mercs, and
blademasters same as heroes. Perhaps the difference in average hitpoints
may be related to the concept of average light tank going for damage
increasing equipment, and average heavy tank -- for the con/hp
increasing equipment. Other than that they are identical
> > > at 50 any race shadowblade will likely have maxed both dex and qui.
> > Good to know.
>
> uh, yeah, but stat caps operate independently of race. so yes, a kobold
> and a norseman will both have maxed dex and qui, but they'll have maxed
> them thirty points apart.
Really? I guess I'm wrong. I thougt that absolute cap was set, not a cap
of how much you can add to base.
Huskvar
xi...@nospam.tcimet.net says...
> You may want to keep a crap weapon equipped in a slot you don't use, and
> put snare poison on it. I'm a SZ, and only use left axe styles. Yet I
> carry a bronze 2h axe with snare on it, and can't count the number of
> times it saved my ass
So, the SZ does compete well with the Critblades? I was possibly
getting my /advice from a biased CB?
So far at level 6 she can go iin any direction. But when I look at how
specific the spec has to be when you choose a direction for a SB, I can
see that you have to decide very soon (probably now is best for me).
So, when you chose to be SZ, did you also train up Envenom skill, or are
you focusing on Stealth/Axe/LA? What are your specs?
--
Midgard/Guinevere
Tahngarth, 22 Zerk
Sergey
>
> > Uuh... I buy long range throwing knives to pull when soloing. Costs
> > me 18 copper per stack. I'm not quite THAT broke as to not afford
> > this
>
> Also, with a 2s throw time, they can be used for distracting casters
> too. :-)
>
I'd rather use my axes to distract casters :) But throwing knives will
work too
Sergey
It's also much harder to evade in RvR, so the dex/qui advantage becomes
a bit less of an advantage
>
>
Koneg
Sergey <xi...@nospam.tcimet.net> scribbled the following:
>In article <passengerpigeon-8E139D.22194903052002
>@news.la.sbcglobal.net>, passeng...@email.com says...
>> > OK, so then my Zerker is pretty good for that then but not as good a
>> > tank as a Warrior I think then. The Warrior can wear chain and, if a
>> > troll, I would imagine should have nearly as much HP as me if not more?
>>
>> main tanks generally have notably more hit points than their light tank
>> brethren.
>
>Actually berserkers have same hp as warriors, armsmen same as mercs, and
>blademasters same as heroes. Perhaps the difference in average hitpoints
>may be related to the concept of average light tank going for damage
>increasing equipment, and average heavy tank -- for the con/hp
>increasing equipment. Other than that they are identical
Few mercs my level in the game have anything even approaching my HP.
>> > > at 50 any race shadowblade will likely have maxed both dex and qui.
>> > Good to know.
>>
>> uh, yeah, but stat caps operate independently of race. so yes, a kobold
>> and a norseman will both have maxed dex and qui, but they'll have maxed
>> them thirty points apart.
>
>Really? I guess I'm wrong. I thougt that absolute cap was set, not a cap
>of how much you can add to base.
Close - your stat caps are a factor of your level, which is then added to
your base. If I have 10 more base CON than you, my CON cap will always be
capped at +10 higher than yours, provided we're both at the same level.
--
Koneg
41 Armsman
Pellinor
"Got Tanks?"
Sergey
ko...@no-spam.thewebmasters.net says...
> >Actually berserkers have same hp as warriors, armsmen same as mercs, and
> >blademasters same as heroes. Perhaps the difference in average hitpoints
> >may be related to the concept of average light tank going for damage
> >increasing equipment, and average heavy tank -- for the con/hp
> >increasing equipment. Other than that they are identical
>
> Few mercs my level in the game have anything even approaching my HP.
Hmm, that is very strange. I made my assumption looking at berserkers vs
warriors. Is the situation *that* different in Albion? Are Mercs on the
healer table like thanes and skalds? That would be somewhat unfair, to
put it very kindly
> >Really? I guess I'm wrong. I thougt that absolute cap was set, not a cap
> >of how much you can add to base.
>
> Close - your stat caps are a factor of your level, which is then added to
> your base. If I have 10 more base CON than you, my CON cap will always be
> capped at +10 higher than yours, provided we're both at the same level.
That actually makes a big difference. That was one of the arguments
kobold warriors used to defend themselves from trolls. But if trolls cap
out that much higher...
Sergey
cardin...@yahoo.com says...
> In article <MPG.17407f804...@nntp.msu.edu>,
> xi...@nospam.tcimet.net says...
>
> > You may want to keep a crap weapon equipped in a slot you don't use, and
> > put snare poison on it. I'm a SZ, and only use left axe styles. Yet I
> > carry a bronze 2h axe with snare on it, and can't count the number of
> > times it saved my ass
>
> So, the SZ does compete well with the Critblades?
I wouldn't say they compete. They have different purposes. SZ's can't
one-shot and stay invisible. So they are a bit worse against mages. They
*are* however excellent fighters, best anti-stealth sub-class, and
capable of even killing heavy tanks if the moon is right. In a fight
between a compentent armsman vs competent SZ, I'd probably give the SZ
about 40% chance, which is damn good against a plate tank
> I was possibly getting my /advice from a biased CB?
I'm sure you were. Now you're getting an advice from a biased SZ :) Both
are probably correct, it's up to you to decide which flavor blade you
want. Both are very good and viable
> So far at level 6 she can go iin any direction. But when I look at how
> specific the spec has to be when you choose a direction for a SB, I can
> see that you have to decide very soon (probably now is best for me).
Possibly. When I made my SZ, I didn't put anything into stealth until 24
(since SZ only uses stealth for RvR). A lot of people try to auto-train
it til 40, but I was too impatient. I also have no CS skill whatsoever.
Some people put a few points into it to be able to go through the
bladeturn. Matter of personal choice
> So, when you chose to be SZ, did you also train up Envenom skill, or are
> you focusing on Stealth/Axe/LA? What are your specs?
I started by maxing LA/Axe and forgetting stealth. I used the level 1
poison for a long while (til about level 20), and it was useful through
all that time. At 20 I raised envenom to 10 (cause I wanted some debuff
poisons in BG, and 10 sounded good to me), and at 24 I raised stealth
after the last auto-train. At 24 my base skills are:
21 Left Axe (for Scathing Blade)
16 Axe (2/3 seemed fine to me, but then again, I do have +4 from items)
10 envenom (2nd snare, 2nd debuff, 2nd dot)
20 stealth (and I think 2-3 more from items)
But generally I'm planning on letting envenom lag behind and only catch
up after level 40 when I get an oodle of extra points.
Either way, you will want to check with the safehouse
(http://pub35.ezboard.com/fthesafehousefrm19) since they have a lot more
experienced people than me there constantly fighting as to which
template is more uber...
Koneg
>ko...@no-spam.thewebmasters.net says...
>> >Actually berserkers have same hp as warriors, armsmen same as mercs, and
>> >blademasters same as heroes. Perhaps the difference in average hitpoints
>> >may be related to the concept of average light tank going for damage
>> >increasing equipment, and average heavy tank -- for the con/hp
>> >increasing equipment. Other than that they are identical
>>
>> Few mercs my level in the game have anything even approaching my HP.
>
>Hmm, that is very strange. I made my assumption looking at berserkers vs
>warriors. Is the situation *that* different in Albion? Are Mercs on the
>healer table like thanes and skalds? That would be somewhat unfair, to
>put it very kindly
Mercs are on the fighter table, but their stats are allocated differently.
Armsmen: STR,CON,DEX
Mercs : STR,DEX,CON
At end-game a Highlander Armsman is going to have 103 base CON compared to
the Merc's 85. (Most Mercs are Brits. If they're Saracen it'll be even
worse) Very very few mercs are Highlanders, and even if they were, their
base CON would cap at 95. (Assuming everyone puts +10 CON in when they
roll-up)
Which is why few mercs my level have HP approaching mine. Right now (from
memory) I have around 1,100 HP counting CON from gear.
>> >Really? I guess I'm wrong. I thougt that absolute cap was set, not a cap
>> >of how much you can add to base.
>>
>> Close - your stat caps are a factor of your level, which is then added to
>> your base. If I have 10 more base CON than you, my CON cap will always be
>> capped at +10 higher than yours, provided we're both at the same level.
>
>That actually makes a big difference. That was one of the arguments
>kobold warriors used to defend themselves from trolls. But if trolls cap
>out that much higher...
Troll Warriors will -always- have higher STR than any other race in any
realm. If they put +10 in at start-up their base STR at 50 is 155. Add
+75 from the item/level +stat cap and before any buffs from healers they're
sitting at a nice and comfy 230 STR. A Kobald Warrior at 50 is going to have
a base STR of only 105, 180 after +item caps.
Huskvar
ko...@no-spam.thewebmasters.net says...
> Troll Warriors will -always- have higher STR than any other race in any
> realm. If they put +10 in at start-up their base STR at 50 is 155. Add
Higher than a troll-Zerk? I thought they were the same? According to
the behavior of the CharBuilder at Catacombs the STR is the main stat of
the Warrior, Thane and the Zerk. So, they should all be the same. Or,
were yu just using the Warrior as an example for someone unfamiliar with
Midgard? Skald is CHA though.
Koneg
Huskvar <cardin...@yahoo.com> scribbled the following:
Aye note I said race. Should have replaced "warrior" with "Viking" I guess.
Troll classes with STR as their primary will exceed everyone else. How's
that? :)
Huskvar
ko...@no-spam.thewebmasters.net says...
> >Higher than a troll-Zerk? I thought they were the same? According to
> >the behavior of the CharBuilder at Catacombs the STR is the main stat of
> >the Warrior, Thane and the Zerk. So, they should all be the same. Or,
> >were yu just using the Warrior as an example for someone unfamiliar with
> >Midgard? Skald is CHA though.
>
> Aye note I said race. Should have replaced "warrior" with "Viking" I guess.
> Troll classes with STR as their primary will exceed everyone else. How's
> that? :)
Good boy! Here's your treat:
/em offers Koneg a live Lurikeen, sets it on his nose
"wait for it.....wait....NOW!"
Rob Adams
> "wait for it.....wait....NOW!"
Hmmm, a LIVE lurikeen...? Never seen one of those. Can they do tricks or
anything??
Huskvar
rob....@telusNO.SPAMnet says...
Yeah, charmed (well, mezzed anyway). Silly Middie, tricks are for kids!
No tricks, just flavor. Taste like chicken!
Vireth
(Koneg) wrote:
>Mercs are on the fighter table, but their stats are allocated differently.
>
> Armsmen: STR,CON,DEX
> Mercs : STR,DEX,CON
>
>At end-game a Highlander Armsman is going to have 103 base CON compared to
>the Merc's 85. (Most Mercs are Brits. If they're Saracen it'll be even
>worse) Very very few mercs are Highlanders, and even if they were, their
>base CON would cap at 95. (Assuming everyone puts +10 CON in when they
>roll-up)
>
>Which is why few mercs my level have HP approaching mine. Right now (from
>memory) I have around 1,100 HP counting CON from gear.
I think they have separate tables for the advanced classes. If it were
the way you say, then techincally Paladins would have more HP than you
(since their primary stat is CON, not STR). We all know Paladin HPs
are quite a bit lower than Armsman.
---
Vireth Soulsaver
Friar of Pellinor
Overlord of Soulsavers Vengeance
Koneg
>cardin...@yahoo.com says...
>> In article <MPG.17407f804...@nntp.msu.edu>,
>> xi...@nospam.tcimet.net says...
>>
>> > You may want to keep a crap weapon equipped in a slot you don't use, and
>> > put snare poison on it. I'm a SZ, and only use left axe styles. Yet I
>> > carry a bronze 2h axe with snare on it, and can't count the number of
>> > times it saved my ass
>>
>> So, the SZ does compete well with the Critblades?
>
>I wouldn't say they compete. They have different purposes. SZ's can't
>one-shot and stay invisible. So they are a bit worse against mages. They
>*are* however excellent fighters, best anti-stealth sub-class, and
>capable of even killing heavy tanks if the moon is right. In a fight
>between a compentent armsman vs competent SZ, I'd probably give the SZ
>about 40% chance, which is damn good against a plate tank
Way too generous. 20% chance TOPS, and that's only if the tank is an RvR
rookie and panics. Zerkers hurt. Zerkers kill me. Assassins? Especially
assassins without a CS? (ShadowZerkers?) Pppppth! They do NOT have the HP to
hang with the big boys long enough to finish the job. If you're an assassin
just give up on even or higher plate classes right now. If you have no Crit
Shot you have no chance against an even Armsman or Paladin. They'll pick
their teeth with your bones.
Vireth
They peg me with them splinters for 1000+ all the time....that good
enough for ya?
Koneg
Vireth <ree...@this-is-not-for-spam.net> scribbled the following:
If memory serves, Paladins are a special case and are actually on the
Cleric's table? Which is why they complain (and rightly so) that their 1h
damage output is so poor in RvR.
Still, I'd love to know what the differences per CON point per class
-really- is. Gabriel? Any ideas?
Sergey
not-for-spam.net says...
Uuh, paladins are not on fighter hp table. Neither are other hybrids
that start from a base fighter class -- such as skalds, thanes, champs
Sergey
ko...@no-spam.thewebmasters.net says...
> >I wouldn't say they compete. They have different purposes. SZ's can't
> >one-shot and stay invisible. So they are a bit worse against mages. They
> >*are* however excellent fighters, best anti-stealth sub-class, and
> >capable of even killing heavy tanks if the moon is right. In a fight
> >between a compentent armsman vs competent SZ, I'd probably give the SZ
> >about 40% chance, which is damn good against a plate tank
>
> Way too generous. 20% chance TOPS, and that's only if the tank is an RvR
> rookie and panics. Zerkers hurt. Zerkers kill me. Assassins? Especially
> assassins without a CS? (ShadowZerkers?) Pppppth!
Well, maybe they might kill that other armsman... I don't know. If you
use slashing pole, it will make a world of a difference. If they evade
once, they have very real chances to win. If they debuff you nicely,
stick a poison on you and proceed with some doublefrosts, they have
chances. Especially if they get lucky with their criticals, and you
don't.
But if you're a slasher, and their poison got resisted, they're
definitely a toast. Actually never mind the poison, just the slashing
polearm would do the trick
> They do NOT have the HP to hang with the big boys long enough to finish the job.
SB's are on the same table as thanes. If you have thrusting weapon,
their armor works fairly well too.
> If you're an assassin
> just give up on even or higher plate classes right now.
From what I understand paladins are much easier than armsmen. And I've
seen reports of SZs taking even level armsmen in duels. Not 100% of the
cases, of course, but I was really impressed even with 40% rate
> If you have no Crit
> Shot you have no chance against an even Armsman or Paladin. They'll pick
> their teeth with your bones.
Hmm... I haven't fought either with my SZ yet, and I'm not sure if the
battlegrounds would count. But from my experience with a skald, paladins
are *very* different from armsmen. Something like a look-alike :)
Besides, if poison sticks, SZ does about same damage as a real
berserker, and has same hp as a paladin. Good number of paladins uses 1h
weapons. In other words, they are dealing approximately 30% of the
damage that an SZ is, raw. More than 30% if you take absorbtion into
account. But even if they do 80% of the damage of a blade, that means
that SZ will have 20% hp left when the paladin is dead.
I realize that this is just numbers, I've never been a level 50
shadowzerker that have fought numerous paladins, but so far it looks
sound to me. And is supported by some of the safehouse community. I just
don't see where it's wrong yet :)
Koneg
>ko...@no-spam.thewebmasters.net says...
>
>> >I wouldn't say they compete. They have different purposes. SZ's can't
>> >one-shot and stay invisible. So they are a bit worse against mages. They
>> >*are* however excellent fighters, best anti-stealth sub-class, and
>> >capable of even killing heavy tanks if the moon is right. In a fight
>> >between a compentent armsman vs competent SZ, I'd probably give the SZ
>> >about 40% chance, which is damn good against a plate tank
>>
>> Way too generous. 20% chance TOPS, and that's only if the tank is an RvR
>> rookie and panics. Zerkers hurt. Zerkers kill me. Assassins? Especially
>> assassins without a CS? (ShadowZerkers?) Pppppth!
>
>Well, maybe they might kill that other armsman... I don't know. If you
>use slashing pole, it will make a world of a difference. If they evade
>once, they have very real chances to win. If they debuff you nicely,
>stick a poison on you and proceed with some doublefrosts, they have
>chances. Especially if they get lucky with their criticals, and you
>don't.
>But if you're a slasher, and their poison got resisted, they're
>definitely a toast. Actually never mind the poison, just the slashing
>polearm would do the trick
Aye, I'm a slasher, and poison or no, they're meat-on-a-stick.
>> They do NOT have the HP to hang with the big boys long enough to finish the job.
>
>SB's are on the same table as thanes. If you have thrusting weapon,
>their armor works fairly well too.
Thanes are absolutely zero contest. I've said it before, gonna say it
again... the Thane that stands their ground against me (or any charging
Armsman for that matter) is a dead Thane.
>> If you're an assassin
>> just give up on even or higher plate classes right now.
>
>From what I understand paladins are much easier than armsmen. And I've
>seen reports of SZs taking even level armsmen in duels. Not 100% of the
>cases, of course, but I was really impressed even with 40% rate
Paladins maybe as they do tend to have fewer HP than Armsmen. Still,
Paladins would be tough to take down, especially a twisting Pally.
>> If you have no Crit
>> Shot you have no chance against an even Armsman or Paladin. They'll pick
>> their teeth with your bones.
>
>Hmm... I haven't fought either with my SZ yet, and I'm not sure if the
>battlegrounds would count. But from my experience with a skald, paladins
>are *very* different from armsmen. Something like a look-alike :)
Hey now be nice :)
>Besides, if poison sticks, SZ does about same damage as a real
>berserker, and has same hp as a paladin.
No - he has the potential to do the same damage as a Zerker, but usually
only finishes doing all that damage AFTER the assassin is dead. The poison
is absolutely brutal but every tank vs assassin fight I've ever seen (or
been in for that matter) the assassin lost their lives -before- the poison
could finish their target.
>Good number of paladins uses 1h weapons. In other words, they are dealing
>approximately 30% of the damage that an SZ is, raw. More than 30% if you
>take absorbtion into account. But even if they do 80% of the damage of a
>blade, that means that SZ will have 20% hp left when the paladin is dead.
>
>I realize that this is just numbers, I've never been a level 50
>shadowzerker that have fought numerous paladins, but so far it looks
>sound to me. And is supported by some of the safehouse community. I just
>don't see where it's wrong yet :)
Not sure about Paladins - in theory a twisting paladin should be able to
survive the fight despite the SZ's damage. The dmg add, AF boost and
+HP every 6 seconds really adds up. If you run into a twisting Paladin with
42 in shield you are -definitely- going to lose the fight. That's probably
true of any trainable-shield class though. Once they land that stun on you?
*shudder*
Frost
ko...@no-spam.thewebmasters.net says...
> No - he has the potential to do the same damage as a Zerker, but usually
> only finishes doing all that damage AFTER the assassin is dead. The poison
> is absolutely brutal but every tank vs assassin fight I've ever seen (or
> been in for that matter) the assassin lost their lives -before- the poison
> could finish their target.
Incidentally, what happend in that situation? What if I am lying on the
ground as a corpse when you die from my poison (were I to have a level
20+ SB to begin with). Would I get any RPs for the kill or not?
--
Tahngarth, 22 Zerk
Helskatt, 6 SZ
Veda, 10 Skald
Frost Guildmaster
Midgard/Guinevere
Koneg
Frost <cardin...@yahoo.com> scribbled the following:
>In article <slrnadgl7j...@12-231-11-54.client.attbi.com>,
>ko...@no-spam.thewebmasters.net says...
>
>> No - he has the potential to do the same damage as a Zerker, but usually
>> only finishes doing all that damage AFTER the assassin is dead. The poison
>> is absolutely brutal but every tank vs assassin fight I've ever seen (or
>> been in for that matter) the assassin lost their lives -before- the poison
>> could finish their target.
>
>Incidentally, what happend in that situation? What if I am lying on the
>ground as a corpse when you die from my poison (were I to have a level
>20+ SB to begin with). Would I get any RPs for the kill or not?
I don't think so. I don't really know. I've never played an Assassin class
in RvR. (Closest I've gotten to that is with a Scout, but we don't have
Poisons)
Sergey
> >berserker, and has same hp as a paladin.
>
> No - he has the potential to do the same damage as a Zerker,
Actually (at least in PvE) they do same or more damage *per round* as a
berserker. Not counting the hamster form, of course. That's pretty
respectable for a weakly rogue class
> but usually
> only finishes doing all that damage AFTER the assassin is dead.
Well, this I can believe, since most albs us slashing weapons and are
resistant to SB's slashing weapons
discon
xi...@nospam.tcimet.net says...
> In article <slrnadgl7j...@12-231-11-54.client.attbi.com>,
> ko...@no-spam.thewebmasters.net says...
> > >Besides, if poison sticks, SZ does about same damage as a real
> > >berserker, and has same hp as a paladin.
> >
> > No - he has the potential to do the same damage as a Zerker,
>
> Actually (at least in PvE) they do same or more damage *per round* as a
> berserker. Not counting the hamster form, of course. That's pretty
> respectable for a weakly rogue class
Shadowblades have a lower WeapSkill modifier, which seems to be a
significant factor in how hard a character hits. Maybe I'm wrong, and
hopefully someone can correct me if I am, but I think zerkers will always
do more DPS because of this, even taking poisons into consideration.
> > but usually
> > only finishes doing all that damage AFTER the assassin is dead.
>
> Well, this I can believe, since most albs us slashing weapons and are
> resistant to SB's slashing weapons.
Even that aside, I'd be really hesitant to put much time into a
shadowzerker, after I've gone up against infiltrators and nightshades
with my hammer using warrior. I can't believe how fast they die. I can
usually kill yellow cons in two hits, or even one, with some luck.
And I say this, having played a shadowzerker up to level 34 a while ago,
before I started my warrior. I have no rvr experience with the SB, yet,
though. It would be nice to find out that I'm wrong.
I've been considering respec'ing to a crit-blade, but waiting to see if
the improvement to left axe damage makes my character feel more viable.
Which btw, I'm hoping is in this patch today, but after seeing no recent
mention of it on the herald, I expect to be disappointed...
.
Vireth
wrote:
>In article <slrnadgl7j...@12-231-11-54.client.attbi.com>,
>ko...@no-spam.thewebmasters.net says...
>
>> No - he has the potential to do the same damage as a Zerker, but usually
>> only finishes doing all that damage AFTER the assassin is dead. The poison
>> is absolutely brutal but every tank vs assassin fight I've ever seen (or
>> been in for that matter) the assassin lost their lives -before- the poison
>> could finish their target.
>
>Incidentally, what happend in that situation? What if I am lying on the
>ground as a corpse when you die from my poison (were I to have a level
>20+ SB to begin with). Would I get any RPs for the kill or not?
Nothing. You get no RPs for a kill that happens after you die. Been
there, done that....
Vireth
wrote:
>> Way too generous. 20% chance TOPS, and that's only if the tank is an RvR
>> rookie and panics. Zerkers hurt. Zerkers kill me. Assassins? Especially
>> assassins without a CS? (ShadowZerkers?) Pppppth!
>
>Well, maybe they might kill that other armsman... I don't know. If you
>use slashing pole, it will make a world of a difference. If they evade
>once, they have very real chances to win. If they debuff you nicely,
>stick a poison on you and proceed with some doublefrosts, they have
>chances. Especially if they get lucky with their criticals, and you
>don't.
>But if you're a slasher, and their poison got resisted, they're
>definitely a toast. Actually never mind the poison, just the slashing
>polearm would do the trick
Or a Friar. I've taken out even con Shadowzerkers before. It was an
Evade-fest for both sides, but I also had Parry working for me, and he
didn't :)
>> If you're an assassin
>> just give up on even or higher plate classes right now.
>
>From what I understand paladins are much easier than armsmen. And I've
>seen reports of SZs taking even level armsmen in duels. Not 100% of the
>cases, of course, but I was really impressed even with 40% rate
Paladins are easier to kill if the Paladin is stupid. If he tries to
act like an Armsman (i.e. no chants/twisting), he will get hurt. Add
those in, and you're toast. If he has a shield, you are DEFINITELY
toast. 9 seconds is an *awful* long time to be getting whacked by that
slash weapon.
>> If you have no Crit
>> Shot you have no chance against an even Armsman or Paladin. They'll pick
>> their teeth with your bones.
>
>Hmm... I haven't fought either with my SZ yet, and I'm not sure if the
>battlegrounds would count. But from my experience with a skald, paladins
>are *very* different from armsmen. Something like a look-alike :)
Like I said, you can't really use the BG 'tactics' of Paladins to
judge the class at higher levels. Are they as good in RvR as Armsman?
No. Are they gimped in melee? NO. While not able to pour out the same
raw damage as an Armsman, they can hold their own in fights.
>Besides, if poison sticks, SZ does about same damage as a real
>berserker, and has same hp as a paladin. Good number of paladins uses 1h
>weapons. In other words, they are dealing approximately 30% of the
>damage that an SZ is, raw. More than 30% if you take absorbtion into
>account. But even if they do 80% of the damage of a blade, that means
>that SZ will have 20% hp left when the paladin is dead.
You're not taking his refresh into account, nor his damage add. A
Paladin with the highest level Chants gets back 45-46 health every 6
seconds. The damage add at the same level of chants gives about an
extra 20-25% damage. Add both of those to a 9 second shield stun, and
you have a dead SZ on your hands.
Sergey
says...
> In article <MPG.1742ddc06...@nntp.msu.edu>,
> xi...@nospam.tcimet.net says...
> > In article <slrnadgl7j...@12-231-11-54.client.attbi.com>,
> > ko...@no-spam.thewebmasters.net says...
> > > >Besides, if poison sticks, SZ does about same damage as a real
> > > >berserker, and has same hp as a paladin.
> > >
> > > No - he has the potential to do the same damage as a Zerker,
> >
> > Actually (at least in PvE) they do same or more damage *per round* as a
> > berserker. Not counting the hamster form, of course. That's pretty
> > respectable for a weakly rogue class
>
> Shadowblades have a lower WeapSkill modifier, which seems to be a
> significant factor in how hard a character hits. Maybe I'm wrong, and
> hopefully someone can correct me if I am, but I think zerkers will always
> do more DPS because of this, even taking poisons into consideration.
I am fully aware of this. As a matter of fact, berserkers cap out at
1500 weapon skill while shadowblades cap out at 900. However, berserkers
can't poison their weapons. The extra damage from poison compensates for
the difference in melee damage
> > > but usually
> > > only finishes doing all that damage AFTER the assassin is dead.
> >
> > Well, this I can believe, since most albs us slashing weapons and are
> > resistant to SB's slashing weapons.
>
> Even that aside, I'd be really hesitant to put much time into a
> shadowzerker, after I've gone up against infiltrators and nightshades
> with my hammer using warrior. I can't believe how fast they die. I can
> usually kill yellow cons in two hits, or even one, with some luck.
The advantage of shadowserker is that they can choose their fights a bit
better than a warrior :)
> And I say this, having played a shadowzerker up to level 34 a while ago,
> before I started my warrior. I have no rvr experience with the SB, yet,
> though. It would be nice to find out that I'm wrong.
Try to take him out to the battleground.
Sergey
not-for-spam.net says...
> On Tue, 7 May 2002 16:05:40 -0400, Sergey <xi...@nospam.tcimet.net>
> wrote:
> >> Way too generous. 20% chance TOPS, and that's only if the tank is an RvR
> >> rookie and panics. Zerkers hurt. Zerkers kill me. Assassins? Especially
> >> assassins without a CS? (ShadowZerkers?) Pppppth!
> >
> >Well, maybe they might kill that other armsman... I don't know. If you
> >use slashing pole, it will make a world of a difference. If they evade
> >once, they have very real chances to win. If they debuff you nicely,
> >stick a poison on you and proceed with some doublefrosts, they have
> >chances. Especially if they get lucky with their criticals, and you
> >don't.
> >But if you're a slasher, and their poison got resisted, they're
> >definitely a toast. Actually never mind the poison, just the slashing
> >polearm would do the trick
>
> Or a Friar. I've taken out even con Shadowzerkers before. It was an
> Evade-fest for both sides, but I also had Parry working for me, and he
> didn't :)
Very strange. From what I hear shadowzerkers do at least same damage as
friars, if not more. But friars are sometimes hard to understand for me
(that's why I just started one). Some say they have some monstrous
damage, some say they are fairly weak in RvR. The ones that I've fought
(only with my skald, not SB), barely had a chance to scratch me.
Comparing anything to a skald 1 on 1 isn't a very fair comparasant
though
discon
Good point. Although that brings to mind the question of how much
stealth to aim for. I can't really decide how much damage I'm willing to
sacrifice for it.
> > And I say this, having played a shadowzerker up to level 34 a while ago,
> > before I started my warrior. I have no rvr experience with the SB, yet,
> > though. It would be nice to find out that I'm wrong.
>
> Try to take him out to the battleground.
I've been planning on it, but trying to get my warrior to 50 first :)
.
Stig Sandbeck Mathisen
> Nothing. You get no RPs for a kill that happens after you die. Been
> there, done that....
I seem to remember getting RPs just after being rezzed, while not
grouped. You don't get any while dead, that's for sure.
--
Stig Sandbeck Mathisen Midgard/Morgan Le Fay
Suppressionist/Warrior/Shadowzerker/Battlesinger
Vireth
wrote:
>> >But if you're a slasher, and their poison got resisted, they're
>> >definitely a toast. Actually never mind the poison, just the slashing
>> >polearm would do the trick
>>
>> Or a Friar. I've taken out even con Shadowzerkers before. It was an
>> Evade-fest for both sides, but I also had Parry working for me, and he
>> didn't :)
>
>Very strange. From what I hear shadowzerkers do at least same damage as
>friars, if not more.
That all depends on the SZ. I've fought them before, and I can say
roughly that they do about the same damage as me. I'm not sure which
one of us would outdo the other on a consistent basis though. Maybe
with the new LA damage SZ's would come out on top.
>But friars are sometimes hard to understand for me
>(that's why I just started one). Some say they have some monstrous
>damage, some say they are fairly weak in RvR. The ones that I've fought
>(only with my skald, not SB), barely had a chance to scratch me.
>Comparing anything to a skald 1 on 1 isn't a very fair comparasant
>though
We *can* have monstrous damage, if we use the right staff, get good
buffs (not from a wimpy Smiter though), and are spec'd right. Damage
output won't be too noticeable at lower levels, but later on you will
notice a BIG difference. If I use a heavy staff in RvR (which I
usually do), I can hit even con tanks for about 300+ a swing, more
against Hib tanks (due to crush vs scale bonus). That's with a
swingtime of about 3.5 secs (or faster with good spec buffs). We ARE
fairly weak in RvR, but that is because we have no ranged attacks. We
are also weak because slash attacks kick the crap out of us. Since
Zerkers/SBs/Skalds/Thanes/Warriors favor Axes and Swords, we have
problems with Mids. Against Hibs it ain't so bad (usually only
Blademasters use slash frequently), if I can actually stay un-mezz'd
longer than 5 seconds :)
Skalds hurt. Not as much as a Zerker, but still bad. I was surprised I
held up as long as I did against that Skald last night, and he was red
con to me. I was only hitting him for about 220-230, he was hitting me
for about 280-300. I just had a Cleric, and he didn't :)
Danny
>
> "Danny" <danpack_no@spam_comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:3CD2CDBB.3FBC0D0D@spam_comcast.net...
> > Gabriel had posted awhile back that each point of Con gives roughly
> 5.6
> > hp to a lv 50 caster. Being lv 41 now, I'm noticing _zero_
> difference.
> > I have gotten +2 hp per point of Con since level 7...And I'm still
> > getting +2 hp per Con at 41. Granted, the graph may be flat and
> ramp
> > SHARPLY upwards for 45+ or something...but, barring that, I have not
> > seen that there is any truth to what Gabe said about Con. =( Can
> anyone
> > shed any light on this?
>
> Please note down your unbuffed con and HPs, then get a big priestly
> con buff and note changes to both. Post results and I'll investigate
> from there.
...GOD my mail server sucks. ANYWAY:
Unbuffed con 50 - 491 hp
With Equip con 107 - 645 hp
With Equip and buff con 148 (Redwood's Stamina - 36) - 740 hp
I didn't get a buff while naked...+1 Con ranges from 2.3 hp to 2.7 hp.
Sorry it took so long. =P
--
Torpal
Fenian Order
41st Enchanter Palomides