Why Equipment Is Over Rated
Jim Carson
Fighting and money gathering were low priority compared to the
wonder I experienced in exploration of the 3 worlds.
It's hard for me to come out and say to any one player you should
adopt strategy X because each person plays for his or her own
reasons.
The strategy I present in this post only applies to players with
a particular goal, that goal being to increase power in the
shortest amount of time.
That isn't to say that alternate paths aren't worthwhile, they
are if that is the investment you want to make, its just that
some people are solely interested in maximizing power in the
least amount of time. In that context your character's
equipment is not a critical issue.
A long long time ago, in a galaxy far far away there was this
Armsman (who shall remain nameless for the time being). This
Armsman was at about 9th level, I can't be certain of the
numbers, maybe he was 8 or maybe 10, it has been a while.
He was saving up for that first piece of steel chain mail, and
was overjoyed when he saved enough money to purchase it and
replace the leather, which would visually and materially set
him apart from non-tanks.
I seem to recall it cost 2.4 gold, I spent the last 4 levels
or so soloing scraglings which seemed to drop good amounts of
money. I had begun soloing them when they were yellow, and
continued to solo them after they became blue and then green,
and even continued to work on some greenies even after they
were mostly grey.
So I had invested a good deal of time soloing for cash with this
Armsman. Then after a few levels I had earned enough cash to
Purchase a single piece of armor that was optimal for the level
of the Armsman.
The thought occurred to me: If it took me the span of 3-4
levels soloing for this money, how much more soloing would
I have to do to obtain the funds to purchase the rest of
his suit?
And if I continued soloing for cash, would my Armsman level
at a faster rate than I could gather cash? In other words,
by the time I had accumulated my target wealth would the
item I desired no longer be of great value (blue/green)?
Without specifically hunting greens, and getting poor
experience intentionally could I accumulate cash as fast
as I could make use of it? The answer for me, even when
soloing was no.
Even if you factor in the 25% off player made equipment
discount you will still level faster than you gather enough
money needed for optimal supplies.
Just as a simple example, Scragglings as I recall drop about
1-120 copper per drop, if we assume 60 copper on average, then
one would need to kill 400 Scragglings to purchase a single
chest piece.
If you start with Scragglings when they are yellow, 400 is
going to get you a few levels.
If you are like most players you may also get drawn away from
your solo missions from time to time. So if you add the
experience you earn from Scraggling hunting and additional
side tasks which you may opt for to save you from the boredom
of soloing, you may level even faster than you had originally
anticipated.
This is exactly what happened to me, just before I acquired
the money to purchase my steel chain shirt I hooked up with
a great group which killed great leapers and the mud golems
near the water. I leveled twice with this group in what
seemed like an hour. I'm sure it was longer but compared to
the pace of soloing it all seemed to occur in the blink of
an eye.
After the group broke up, I ran my Armsman all the way to Caer
Ulfwych (the one in the forest since I am always getting them
confused) to sell off his drops and purchase a brand new steel
chain shirt and I was very pleased that my Armsman was finally
be wearing something that set him apart from the non-tank
riff raff :)
He began to appear as though he was an "fighter guy" which
showed progress.
I did not notice any significant performance boost when I
went about soloing blue and yellow things.
I assumed that, in order for me to see a significant change
I would have to be in a full suit. Getting him a full suit
of armor became my new goal, and then once in a full suit I
expected to see a big change in the results of soloing blues
and yellows.
My goal was to make the character powerful as soon as
possible and I thought making my Armsman powerful for his
level would be a way To achieve that, but that was a mistake
as we shall soon see.
I knew to achieve the goal of having a full chain suit, my
Armsman would have to continue soloing good cash drops.
Scragglings were now out of the picture as they were mostly
grey. I asked people for some advice on where to go next for
good lvl 10+ cash drops and never got any good leads.
Somehow I wandered up into the Black Mountains, near where
tepok's mine is.
There are goblin creatures there and they seemed to have
pretty decent cash drops, so I began my soloing cash drive
once again. These creatures seemed to be orange and yellow
and perhaps some blue, I focused on easy kills because I was
more interested in cash than experience.
These creatures were actually quite fun to solo because they
would call others for help, and if you were not extremely
careful in pulling only one, and also keeping an eye on the
others for adds, your character would almost certainly eat it.
I saw many careless people eat it.
I was staying alive and generating positive cash flow but
I was also killing blue/yellow and that meant that my
experience bar was moving which under normal circumstances
is a good thing.
But would that rob me of the victory of being arrayed in
all yellow con chain armor? Would I have to skip yellow
con chain armor entirely and target my funds for the next
armor up the rung, which was even more expensive?
If I continued to defer funds, would I never upgrade
my armor? At about this time my knowledge of DAOC was
growing and I began to learn of the crafting skills.
I had heard people brag about making obscene amounts of
cash from running consignments. If I could only become
a smith, run consignments and make lots and lots of money,
it would solve all of my character's money problems, he
could also craft his own armor at wholesale cost which
would be ideal. I had also learned that player crafted
armor was better than the merchant armor of the same type.
This seemed like the best solution for my Armsman.
I returned him to Camelot, and spent at least a full week
making him into a smith. Most people that I know power
level to get good at crafting. A 47 level character might
have no problem sinking a platinum into crafting which I
would expect to boost him to about 500 in armor crafting.
But my Armsman was relatively poor, and I began having him
run tasks to generate cash, which would be reinvested in
new materials
If you think power leveling yourself to 400 takes a long
time, just try to run consignments until you are at 400
in Armor crafting. It takes a lot of time.
Needless to say I grew impatient, and began to cheat with
the profits in attempts to power level. I was also
fairly new and spent time and money keeping my tailoring
skill up when I should have let it go.
I had also sold off the chain shirt, and other items to
free up as much cash as possible to work with. In my
eagerness to advance my crafter skill, I lost more money
than would keep me in business, this occurred just
as I was making a transition to a new metal type
so I felt the pinch.
I didn't need a huge amount of cash to resume crafting
but I did need more than my character currently had.
My Arms was around 11th level, out of money, no armor,
no weapons.
I would have to buy back what poor equipment I could
and send him out into the cruel world and try to solo
for money.
Wouldn't he get eaten alive by the blue/yellow mobs that
he was soloing before?
I spent some of the remaining money on some cheap weapons
and armor, just enough so that he could considered to be
equipped with something.
I was very worried about him being too weak and
envisioned a kind of character death:
If he ran out of money, and had no ability to fight
wouldn't he just get killed, be unable to heal himself,
and have to repeat that process even further weakened.
I might have to give up completely on the character.
So I sent my Arms back out to the Black Mountains, same
area, near Tepoks mine. Under ordinary circumstances I am
very careful about aggro, in that particular region with
that character I was extremely careful, needless to say
given the new situation I was painfully careful about
drawing aggro.
I went back to the mountains picked on a blue and fought.
I was surprised to learn that the outcome wasn't that
dramatically different than previous battles. I managed
to live, I wasn't near dead. I don't remember the exact
statistics but I remember the feeling of surprise, the
feeling that I had expected a disaster and what I got was
more along the lines of what I always get.
I was genuinely surprised that with poor armor
equipment I could handle blues.
I rested my Arms, and when he was full strength did it
again, and again, and again...
I could take them... got the confidence to eventually
pick a yellow, could kill it also. Not that I wanted
to take chances, but I wanted to know how far I could
push it.
A though occurs to me, what's the deal?, here my character
is virtually naked and he is still beating down blues and
yellows, maybe not as effectively as previously, but
continuing to solo was not a problem.
After this test I send my Arms back to Camelot, now he
has enough wealth to purchase start up supplies.
I continue crafting. This time I am much more conservative
with my spare change, and I do well, I amass about 50 G
and I am doing steel and then alloy.
I Can finally make my chain suit but I have temporarily
fallen in love with crafting. Bizarre isn't it?
So I am not ready to leave Camelot just yet, although
I do it a craft leveling wall somewhere between 350
and 400. Tasks are taking me 5-15 minutes at a time
and the fun in crafting begins to fade.
I divorce myself from the idea of running tasks
until 650. It may be incorrect data but I was
told you can continue consignments up to 650 although
I'm not sure how that works out given that tasks
seem to be assigned and completed in Camelot and the
metals for levels 500+ would not be directly available
in Camelot. If anyone wants to shed light on this
issue please do.
Finally, I am ready to craft a suit of super duper
self made chain or was it mail ? I forget, but something
really good that cons yellow to my Armsman at his level.
And now, ready to go out into the world, I purchase the best
one hand slash weapon from a merchant, the best shield.
Where do I go? Back to solo the goblins around Tepok
because I want to experience how awesome I am now,
outfitted with my player made chain.
Unfortunately, the results were more or less the
same as previous Attempts at the same level with very
poor armor. I could solo blues, I could solo yellows,
maybe I was 5% tougher but no huge difference.
I was not dominating yellows. Domination to me, means
that the enemy is lucky to land 1 hit on you before they die.
I wanted to get the very best suit of armor on my
character to make him a stand out at his level.
But there was nothing tremendously special about
him at all, he was a slightly strong 11 (or whatever
he was). But an 11 still could not dominate 11th
level mobs, and gets beaten by 12th level mobs regardless
of how strong he is at that level.
Equipment, is a fractional modifier on level.
Level means everything.
The following facts support this:
- A 10th character has approximately two times as many
hit points as a 5th level character of the same race
and class.
- The skills of a 10th level character are typically
twice as advanced when compared to a 5th level
character of the same race and class.
- Damage done to lower level mobs seems to double, quadruple
damage and damage done to higher level mobs seems to half
and quarter damage, when done with the same weapon.
Now as you know, I am not a system scientist, I don't follow
the dev forums and don't know the formulas they use for their
combat system but from experience I have seen a weapon barely
scratch a purple mob for 20 points, may clobber a grey mob
for hundreds or even over a thousand. The only difference
in these two cases being the level of the defender, and not
weapon nor the level of the attacker.
Given such an huge variance of the damage one has to wonder
just how effective the grey cons equipment will be versus
higher level creatures even if it is the best possible at
his level.
For whatever reason, the makers of DAOC decided that
equipment should have a level, and that level should
track closely with the level of users who could
effectively employ that weapon.
I am only going to speculate that this was done to
prevent people from getting power leveled via gifts.
Perhaps someone can shed more light on the reasons
behind this design.
I don't have a problem with this system. However,
like any system that people have to contend with, they
will try to beat it. The way to beat the equipment
system is to get by on what you can and not pay to
much attention to it beyond that.
I have found through experience that equipment means
very little and level means nearly everything.
If I had invested all my time and energy into
leveling and making do with what armor that I had
at the time I started my solo for money and crafting
quests I would probably have been 20th level.
At 20th level I could send my Armsman back to the
goblins and smack them around much more
effectively than a well equipped 11th level Armsman.
So, it is obvious what I should have done with that time
if my goal was to make the Armsman powerful.
Being a strong 11th level PC means nothing
a weak 11th PC level means nothing.
These modifiers are meaningless. Equipment will
not make any more than a few levels of difference
in the most extreme case.
Just think of the time investment the 10th level
guy puts into obtaining all the best yellow stuff.
I am not advocating equipping in grey, but with
a combination of drops, purchases you can afford, and then
the occasional quest item. you should do fine with that
strategy and if you look around you will see most others
as you continue to level past 30 adopt is as well.
Sometimes you will be mostly in yellow, sometimes you'll be
in mostly blue but it *will not* have a dramatic impact on
your effectiveness and your survival rate.
In PvP equipment may seem to matter more, but that is only if you
don't consider the time investment that you put into obtaining
the best stuff for your level. In order to equip yourself in
such a way it will take a lot of time hunting greens and running
too many quests, the impact it will have on your effectiveness
will be minimal and *temporary*, that time applied to leveling
alone will boost you several levels which obsoletes items that
you previously thought you couldn't live without.
In PvE, anyone who knows anyting about leveling in PvE
knows that from level 20 and increasingly so until level
50 you level fastest by being in groups and hunting purple,
or by hunting yellow/orange/red at high speed like lyon gobs.
This is indisputable. No one solo's at 30+ for experience.
Ok maybe someone will eek out his last .2 of a buble by soloing
but that is a special case.
One may solo the cats at 30+ for gold or ego and get experience
as a by product but no one is doing it thinking:
"Only 9.5 bubs to go... let's see if my calculations are correct
that will take me a month to level"
So here s my point, if you are going to level, you
are doing PvE and you are in a group versus a purple,
does anyone think a 32 Arms in a group fighting Vigs (46)
is going to make a damn bit of difference based on his
super spiffy Aprox 32 level armor?
What really matters is having 2 clerics in that group and
enough tanks to protect the casters so that they don't go
down because that is a party wipe out, regardless of the
weapons and armor you are using.
What matters most? Levels and group composition.
Equipment is not the most important thing, there is
no need for that group to have the best of the best
equipment to survive.
On the other hand, if you have poor group composition,
such as 1 cleric in a 32 level group doing Vigs, and
everyone has the best armor, and the Vig aggros on the
cleric and he goes down, all that great armor wont save
you or your group.
Yellow/blue mob drops and sometimes orange are good
enough to survive and level effectively.
Some important hints to level effectively are:
1. Finding good groups which are balanced and will hunt
the right things per the strength of the group.
2. Recognize when the group is not prepared to handle
what they allege they will hunt and leave early before
the pain begins. Even if it means waiting another 30
minutes to hook up with something more
realistic.
3. Recognize that some people in the group are dangerous because
they are too foolish and proud and are willing to lead others
into sure doom. Again, leave early.
4. Avoid aggro, avoid grouping with chronic aggro magnets who
will surely get you wiped out.
A few quick stories about leaving early.
One night in the cats, a long time ago, as you go down the first
long hallway and turn left at the intersection there is a ramp
people like to camp on. One night I got into a group that was
caster heavy and tank skimpy. An annoying wizzard (who I happened
to blow past in level in the future) was insisting that we could do
that ramp and it would not be a problem, and I was saying, we
need more tanks.
The problem I saw with that was that when you pull from that
ramp, it's not uncommon to pull 3, and if you do not have a
good mezzer, which we did not, you will need at least 3 tanks
to match up to 3 mobs OR some caster is going to match up
against a mob... not good.
It is possible, for a tank to whack the mob that matches up with
the caster to pull him off and just eat the extra damage until
they can turn their focus to the next. Even if it becomes
the responsibility of 1 or 2 tanks to intercept incoming mobs
and pull them off of casters eventually one will get through
and someone is going to die, which may cause a chain reaction
resulting in a party wipe out.
I had the only true tank of the group, the rest of the "tanks"
were infiltrators or scouts. The entire party was sold on the
over confidence of this wizard who I guessed was spoiled with
a much more powerful party the previous night and assumed a repeat
would be no problem.
When it became clear to me that they were serious about pulling,
and would not waiting to add additional tanks or at least a mezzer
I told them that I would be leaving the party, I also told the wiz
that he was foolish to think it would be easy. I get a typical
"we don't need you anyway, this is going to be easy" kind of response.
So I go run back to the intersection and look back to watch the
action unfold.
1st pull... Couldn't see all the action but after a few
moments 2 mobs come at them from behind... dunno exactly
how that happened, AoE? or just some funky thru the wall
aggro? In any case they pulled at least 2 from behind,
and 1 must have been pulled up the ramp. The casters in
the rear had mobs on them, and the wiz himself eventually
got beaten on.
The over confident wiz did not go down and the the party
managed to not get fully wiped out, but I know they lost
some people. I couldn't tell how many because I could not
see the action that occurred on the lower and middle ramp.
Needless to say when they rez'd and healed up, they exited
the ramp area and headed for the surface.
A near party wipe out on the first pull, and I /sent the guy
"what's the matter? I thought it would be easy?"
I never got a response.
Story 2 is in the barrows.
I think I was around 35, and landed in a group of mostly
lower level characters around 32, so I figured, ok I will
be high man tonight. One was 30 and must have been new
to the barrows. We decided to do vigs, and we go the smart
way, the back way (past the shades & advisors). As we run
down the first hall to make a right at the end of it, we see
some person in retreat from a mob that is bashing him,
ts just some repentant follower that aggro'd on him from
the hall, no problem they are fairly easy to handle.
ince myself and the few other higher level tanks in the group
assess the threat we both as one step forward and attack it.
We win, stop, rest and regroup.
Now the guy who just drew aggro, who we saved, goes back
down the steps, and pulls a phantom... like a dope he runs
back into the middle of our party thinking:
"ok these guys will bail me out again."
Except this time, myself and the other players at my level do
nothing because we are thinking the following:
1. Could it part of a train?
2. We can't easily take this when rested, and we are not 100%.
3. Better to let die and rez.
But, some level 30 tank in our group who apparently had no
concept of discretion decides "I'm going to be the hero",
and he whacks the mob which results in about half of the
party being killed.
I immediately leave the party after this incident.
This kind of stuff happens all the time. Be prepared to
leave groups which put your character, and your time
investment at risk.
Just the other night at the barrows I announce my level and
LFG and a 32 level group picks me up and says we are going
to do wights.
It was only after I joined that I realized I alone was
over 40, the rest of the group consisted of Arms and
Palys around 32.
I disbanded immediately which I would have done normally
given the difference in levels the funny thing here was
they thought they could handle wights. Probably because
one guy in that group had gotten lucky on a previous night,
was dragged down with a group of high 30's and low 40's
and experienced what seemed like a very easy time.
That party he assembled was going to get wiped out before
they even get to the wights room. Their fearless, over
confident leader is going to get them killed and waste
a lot of their time.
Its hard to avoid bad groups because no one wants to risk
being impolite or rude but you have to weigh the options.
Do you want to spend an hour following some asshole who
doesn't slow down to regroup, who ignores group aggro
and insists on leading the group to take on some mob
that is beyond them?
If you stick with good quality parties where people's
egos are in check and everyone understands their role
you will have a more enjoyable time with playing and
as a bonus you will gain experience at a faster pace
than had you go along with any suicide squad that
wants you.
So in a nutshell my advice to make your character most
powerful in the least amount of time is to get by with
what equipment you get from mob drops and what money
you can spare, group and hunt purple. Avoid dangerous
situations and groups by detecting it early and then
leaving before you are at risk.
And always have fun :)
hibbie bibby bo bibby banana fana fo fibby...
the circuitous, scenic route is ok from time to time.
you were just hunting in the wrong places. armsman at level 8 should be in
tomb of mithra in a group. and you always run to sell when inventory gets
full. there's no reason not to have at least one spare gold by level 9 if
you hunt in mithra. my paladin had full forlorn and orange 2h sword by level
12 and 3 gold to spare. you just hunting in the wong place.
or, you could always die a few times to keep crappy armor yellow. up to you
bud.
"Jim Carson" <jcar...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:f26cec66.02013...@posting.google.com...
Koneg
Jim Carson <jcar...@hotmail.com> scribbled the following:
[shluuuuuuuuuuuuuuurp]
>So here s my point, if you are going to level, you
>are doing PvE and you are in a group versus a purple,
>does anyone think a 32 Arms in a group fighting Vigs (46)
>is going to make a damn bit of difference based on his
>super spiffy Aprox 32 level armor?
Damn skippy. He can probably get away easier. Anyone dumb enough to be
fighting Vigs in a group of 32s deserves the wipeout they get.
[shlurp]
>The problem I saw with that was that when you pull from that
>ramp, it's not uncommon to pull 3, and if you do not have a
>good mezzer, which we did not, you will need at least 3 tanks
>to match up to 3 mobs OR some caster is going to match up
>against a mob... not good.
*boggle*
Thank you for makeing the case for quality gear. You don't send the tanks
solo vs the mobs. The one with the best gear whacks all 3, gets all three
beating on him, and your group tears them new assholes one at a time while
the cleric keeps that main tank alive.
>It is possible, for a tank to whack the mob that matches up with
>the caster to pull him off and just eat the extra damage until
>they can turn their focus to the next.
And he damned well better too. Hope he's got good gear on...
>The over confident wiz did not go down and the the party
>managed to not get fully wiped out, but I know they lost
>some people. I couldn't tell how many because I could not
>see the action that occurred on the lower and middle ramp.
"So and so was killed by such and such"
Don't you even play this game?
>Just the other night at the barrows I announce my level and
>LFG and a 32 level group picks me up and says we are going
>to do wights.
>
>It was only after I joined that I realized I alone was
>over 40, the rest of the group consisted of Arms and
>Palys around 32.
Forgot what the pretty colors mean when you click on them?
>I disbanded immediately which I would have done normally given the
>difference in levels the funny thing here was they thought they could
>handle wights.
If tank heavy, pulling from the bridge in the echos room? Hell ya we can do
wights. All night long. A HELL of a lot easier than Vigs.
>Probably because one guy in that group had gotten lucky on a previous
>night, was dragged down with a group of high 30's and low 40's and
>experienced what seemed like a very easy time.
*boggle* Uh - wights are some of the easiest mobs in barrows (depending on
the room you're working them at, of course). You don't need 40s to take 'em.
We were a tank heavy crew of 30s to 33s and we worked them, echos, and
keepers all night long with no deaths. We even broke out OK too. Damn fine
group.
Course - I had to save our 33 main tank a couple times with intercept and
just plain aggro sharing. For some reason, he thought he could hold up to
wights wearing that crappy mob dropped trash.
--
Koneg
31 Armsman
Knight Marshall, Knights of Camelot
Pellinor
Jim Carson
> Umm, your last few paragraphs sum up what most people start off saying. but
> the circuitous, scenic route is ok from time to time.
>
> you were just hunting in the wrong places. armsman at level 8 should be in
> tomb of mithra in a group. and you always run to sell when inventory gets
> full. there's no reason not to have at least one spare gold by level 9 if
> you hunt in mithra. my paladin had full forlorn and orange 2h sword by level
> 12 and 3 gold to spare. you just hunting in the wong place.
>
> or, you could always die a few times to keep crappy armor yellow. up to you
> bud.
I Agree.
It is interesting that you say you acquired a full suit of forlorn.
The chief critic of the strategy I advocate claims that dropped
items such as forlorn armor are crap and should be avoided. His
claim is that players should exclusively purchase player crafted
armor and weapons rather than rely on drops such as forlorn.
I was the one who argued that mob dropped stuff is
just fine, the thrust of this post was to show how
it is very hard to afford player crafted and merchant
armor.
One of my minor points was that it is possible and for me
personally preferable to get by on mob drops.
Jim Carson
<snip>
> If tank heavy, pulling from the bridge in the echos room? Hell ya we can do
> wights. All night long. A HELL of a lot easier than Vigs.
Oh please, now you are being silly.
When someone says they are going to do Wights they mean they
are going to camp the Wights/Celts room and not try to pull
wights from the crevice that you must pass through to get there.
Everyone I know understands that Vigs preceed Wights in difficulty.
Is there a person in this forum who disagrees with that other
than Koneg?
> >Probably because one guy in that group had gotten lucky on a previous
> >night, was dragged down with a group of high 30's and low 40's and
> >experienced what seemed like a very easy time.
>
> *boggle* Uh - wights are some of the easiest mobs in barrows (depending on
> the room you're working them at, of course). You don't need 40s to take 'em.
Easiest?
LOL good for you, you looked in your bestiary :)
Yet again we have an example where EXPERIENCE is more
important than theoretical reference material.
When you pull Wights from the Wights/Celts room you
get Wights, Megalith Wights, Megalithic Terrors, and
you are pulling them in chains of 2, 3, 4, 5 and perhaps
more.
So please factor that into your cavalier claim that
doing Wights is easier than Vigs.
32 is way too low to do Wights. Take your 31-33 group
and try to make a run to the Wights/Celts room.
You've obviously never done it :)
> We were a tank heavy crew of 30s to 33s and we worked them, echos, and
> keepers all night long with no deaths. We even broke out OK too. Damn fine
> group.
I'm not surprised at all that you did echos.
It is a nice room for 32's.
> Course - I had to save our 33 main tank a couple times with intercept and
> just plain aggro sharing. For some reason, he thought he could hold up to
> wights wearing that crappy mob dropped trash.
Are you saying that the Wights could not hit you?
That they had significantly more trouble hitting you
than hitting the 33?
I highly doubt that.
Maybe it was just that the 33 with his inferior weapon but
superior level was generating MORE damage and aggro than you
were, therefor he was getting beaten on more and you ASSUMED
that your static health meter had more to do with your spiffy
armor than the fact that the mobs considered you a minor
annoyance.
dg
> and armor, just enough so that he could considered to be
> equipped with something.
>
> So I sent my Arms back out to the Black Mountains, same
> area, near Tepoks mine. Under ordinary circumstances I am
> very careful about aggro, in that particular region with
> that character I was extremely careful, needless to say
> given the new situation I was painfully careful about
> drawing aggro.
>
> I went back to the mountains picked on a blue and fought.
> I was surprised to learn that the outcome wasn't that
> dramatically different than previous battles. I managed
> to live, I wasn't near dead. I don't remember the exact
> statistics but I remember the feeling of surprise, the
> feeling that I had expected a disaster and what I got was
> more along the lines of what I always get.
>
Out of curiousity... what was the con of this cheap stuff? If it was
blue then you should have had no problems...
Vireth
> Are you saying that the Wights could not hit you?
>
> That they had significantly more trouble hitting you
> than hitting the 33?
>
> I highly doubt that.
>
> Maybe it was just that the 33 with his inferior weapon but
> superior level was generating MORE damage and aggro than you
> were, therefor he was getting beaten on more and you ASSUMED
> that your static health meter had more to do with your spiffy
> armor than the fact that the mobs considered you a minor
> annoyance.
Maybe the level 33 was a Paladin. A Paladin with Refresh turned on will
generate about as much aggro as a Cleric chain-casting group heals
(since that is basically what he's doing). So damage output is
irrelevant in that case.
Also, if the other tank was using Polearm/2-Hand/Dual Wield, then no
Shield. I know Koneg fights most often with a Shield/1-Hand. Shield =
more defense.
There could be quite a few other factors as to why this guy was getting
smacked around more than Koneg, and quite a few have very little to do
with equipment.
--
Vireth Soulsaver
Friar of Pellinor
Overlord of Soulsavers Vengeance
Koneg
Vireth <ree...@this-is-not-for-spam.net> scribbled the following:
>Jim Carson wrote:
>
>> Are you saying that the Wights could not hit you?
>>
>> That they had significantly more trouble hitting you
>> than hitting the 33?
>>
>> I highly doubt that.
>>
>> Maybe it was just that the 33 with his inferior weapon but
>> superior level was generating MORE damage and aggro than you
>> were, therefor he was getting beaten on more and you ASSUMED
>> that your static health meter had more to do with your spiffy
>> armor than the fact that the mobs considered you a minor
>> annoyance.
Jim, Uh, I know I'm taking less damage if I'm not under attack you imbecile.
I'm talking about when I took aggro from him and had the mob squarely
focused on ME as its target. It hit me less often, and for a lot less
damage. It MISSED more and HIT FOR LESS when it DID hit. Shit I hate yelling
like that but need to get through the granite walls that are Jim's little
skull.
>
>Maybe the level 33 was a Paladin. A Paladin with Refresh turned on will
>generate about as much aggro as a Cleric chain-casting group heals
>(since that is basically what he's doing). So damage output is
>irrelevant in that case.
Nope - he was a polearm armsman.
>Also, if the other tank was using Polearm/2-Hand/Dual Wield, then no
>Shield. I know Koneg fights most often with a Shield/1-Hand. Shield =
>more defense.
Yup - I have poles at almost 90% of my level (27 for 31) but in PvE the
shield and very fast 1h weapon of mine are more useful.
>There could be quite a few other factors as to why this guy was getting
>smacked around more than Koneg, and quite a few have very little to do
>with equipment.
Hehehe I was hardly a minor annoyance since I was clearly out-aggro'n the 33
and his polearm. With a serrated lion fang I'm hitting every 2.5 with a 10+
DPS weapon - almost 3 times faster than he was, which is a major factor in
aggro (how often you're hitting a mob counts more, to it's pea sized little
hate list, than overall damage does) I took aggro from him every fight and
if I hadn't, he'd have died many times over.
EVERYONE in our group commented on how much damage he was taking compared to
myself and the pally when one of us took aggro - when the mobs turned
towards myself they weren't clipping my HP bar at anywhere near the same
rate they were on him. When we added it up (both of us buffed by the paladin
in our group) I had over 180 more AF than he did. He had his 30 leggo BP and
quest gloves, the rest was Vindicator. I had the exact same BP and gloves,
and the rest of the suit was PC adamantium. The kicker to all of this is he
had gobs more HP than I did as the cleric had given him a CON buff where-as
I, as secondary tank, didn't. The pally also held up better than our primary
- the pally was wearing all black armor. Dunno if it was Ebony or EM.
BTW, one cleric, one sorcerer, and a mixed bag of 6 armsmen and paladins is
a whole lot of fun ;-)
Vireth
> EVERYONE in our group commented on how much damage he was taking compared to
> myself and the pally when one of us took aggro - when the mobs turned
> towards myself they weren't clipping my HP bar at anywhere near the same
> rate they were on him. When we added it up (both of us buffed by the paladin
> in our group) I had over 180 more AF than he did. He had his 30 leggo BP and
> quest gloves, the rest was Vindicator. I had the exact same BP and gloves,
> and the rest of the suit was PC adamantium. The kicker to all of this is he
> had gobs more HP than I did as the cleric had given him a CON buff where-as
> I, as secondary tank, didn't. The pally also held up better than our primary
> - the pally was wearing all black armor. Dunno if it was Ebony or EM.
He was wearing Vindicator?! At level 33?! Wouldn't that have been grey
to him, since Vindi is level 21 armor?
Koneg
Yup - although his boots were worn mortification, but since boots add the
least to your overall AF they didn't matter a whole lot. I could swear I
mentioned he was in Vindi, but I think it got tacked into a post in another
thread.
But hey - it's more "efficient" to fight in mob drop as long as you can, or
so someone keeps saying.
Vireth
I can add my own "testimonial" to this....
Recently, I upgraded my armor to a near-full suit of player-crafted
Embossed Cymric Leather (AF 52). I kept my Observer Gloves (AF 48)
because of it's Piety buff (+9) and Cat Hide Boots (AF 50) because it is
100% Qua and gives +9 Dex (or maybe Qui? either one is good). QUA on
most pieces was around 93-96%, Helm was 99%.
Soon after I was wearing this, someone in Camelot saw me and asked if I
was wearing a full suit of Bloodied Leather (the Embossed was all died
bright red...I like that color). I said no, and he promptly GAVE me a
full suit. I thought "cool" and banked my crafted suit. Now, I knew I
would be taking a little hit on AF, since the Bloodied is AF 40 each
piece. I just didn't think it would be THAT much of a hit. My AF went
down from 314 to about 220. Even after seeing this, I decided to give it
a try, thinking that since I am a "support" class, AF would not matter
as much, and the magic buffs on the armor was great. Mistake.
PvE, I was taking a LOT more damage from mobs than before. Current
choice of enemies was usually the Rooters out by the Catacombs (around
level 35-40 monsters), in a group, of course. When I got aggro, they
were hitting me for about 100-120. Ouch. With the Embossed, that went
down to about 70-90. Difference? I think so.
RvR, a difference there too. I was still getting ganked by
archers/assassins by the truckload, but with the Bloodied, average
damage was around 400-500. Almost instant death. With the Embossed,
damage was down to about 200-400 (with the exception of a few higher
levels hitting me for 700+, of course :). Even those few extra seconds
of life gives me a chance to run a *little* before I die, or makes a
one-shot less likely, thus making the sneaker un-stealth. I still die,
but the other guy usually does too. Since I seem to have a target
painted on me as soon as I start to buff/heal/rez, I am resigned to
dying a lot out in the Frontier. But, the Embossed gives me a *chance*
for a heal from someone else, even if miniscule.
I'll take that miniscule. Maybe it will give Koneg a chance to charge
the bad guy for me.....
drocket
wrote:
>I was the one who argued that mob dropped stuff is
>just fine, the thrust of this post was to show how
>it is very hard to afford player crafted and merchant
>armor.
If you're that poor, you're doing something wrong. Probably you're in
too big of groups fighting stuff that's too high of level. Experience
from monsters seems to increase quite a bit faster than their cash.
The best groups for both experience and cash are 3-4 players. And let
me assure you, mob-dropped equipment IS crap. You get a decent set of
player-made equipment and you won't be going back to mob-dropped junk
(and you won't need to get into a group of 2847 other players to kill
a purple, so it'll be plenty easy to affort the second set, too.)
Electragician
news:3c59d286....@news-server.neo.rr.com...
> If you're that poor, you're doing something wrong. Probably you're in
> too big of groups fighting stuff that's too high of level. Experience
> from monsters seems to increase quite a bit faster than their cash.
> The best groups for both experience and cash are 3-4 players. And let
> me assure you, mob-dropped equipment IS crap. You get a decent set of
> player-made equipment and you won't be going back to mob-dropped junk
> (and you won't need to get into a group of 2847 other players to kill
> a purple, so it'll be plenty easy to affort the second set, too.)
You guys have got me to thinking now... I'm wondering if I should go ahead
and make the move to player made myself.
I'm currently 30, but should easily make 31 tonight. I'm outfitted in mostly
mob drop stuff, but much of it is stat enhancing. I'll probably at least get
PC chest/arms/legs/head, as I'm rather fond of my Awranite boots. As a
minstrel I'm more the support class type, but I'm not normally sitting back
playing power song like many of my dungeon grouping brethren ;) I do get in
and mix it up, as I'm much more of a tank than either of the two scouts. I'm
usually mezzing the adds and tanking them after the archers drop the main
pull (usually never makes it to us) and the they join in and shoot the one
I've got aggro on.
What kind of chain should I be looking at @ level 31. Preferably something
red to me, so I can grow into it a bit. Through my guild alliance I can get
the stuff at cost most likely, so cost is no real big deal.
Koneg, it's to bad you don't play on Igraine. That Serrated Lion Fang rocks
(using one myself), but I could loan you a Great Hounds Tooth for a few
levels. It's still red to me now, but higher damage at roughly the same
speed. Both very nice weapons though. My weapons skills are lacking, so the
pluses to slash help quite a bit.
Matt K
Sergey Dashevskiy
@hotmail.com says...
> "hibbie bibby bo bibby banana fana fo fibby..." <ki...@antispam.soloist.net> wrote in message news:<u5h7kuj...@corp.supernews.com>...
> > Umm, your last few paragraphs sum up what most people start off saying. but
> > the circuitous, scenic route is ok from time to time.
> >
> > you were just hunting in the wrong places. armsman at level 8 should be in
> > tomb of mithra in a group. and you always run to sell when inventory gets
> > full. there's no reason not to have at least one spare gold by level 9 if
> > you hunt in mithra. my paladin had full forlorn and orange 2h sword by level
> > 12 and 3 gold to spare. you just hunting in the wong place.
> >
> > or, you could always die a few times to keep crappy armor yellow. up to you
> > bud.
>
> I Agree.
>
> It is interesting that you say you acquired a full suit of forlorn.
> The chief critic of the strategy I advocate claims that dropped
> items such as forlorn armor are crap and should be avoided.
You are correct, and they *are* crap. Compared to player made chainmail.
But compared to leather or to nothing, they make quite a bit of sense.
If my armsman could afford to buy player made armor, or had the time to
do tradeskills, I wouldn't even think about Forlorn.
However, by wearing that, I allowed myself enough time to collect cash
and buy almost a full suit of player made plate at level 16 :)
> His
> claim is that players should exclusively purchase player crafted
> armor and weapons rather than rely on drops such as forlorn.
>
> I was the one who argued that mob dropped stuff is
> just fine, the thrust of this post was to show how
> it is very hard to afford player crafted and merchant
> armor.
>
> One of my minor points was that it is possible and for me
> personally preferable to get by on mob drops.
In a lot of cases it could be preferrable. I believe a few of the
Vindicator pieces that I have (dropped plate) is quality 89% with 10%
bonus. That puts it about 3-5% behind player made, and it was a whooole
lot cheaper too. Again, if I had the money, I'd rather have nice player
plate, but between Vindicator's and greenish chain, I chose the first :)
>
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KrisH
Jim Carson wrote:
Yup, Vig are easy, they can be single pulled.
Wights, on the other hand, come in bunches. (those by the echo bridge and the ones
by the celts)
Wights are doable for a group of 30s though, my guildies did them.
But, if the ghoul vipers add, kiss it all good bye! :-)
(I'm stunning and mezzing megalith wights and I dare say, I'm more than the sum of my equipment :P )
KH
Sirk 40 minstrel Kay
KrisH
end-game...
What is the end-game in DAOC? RvR So, to be effective, you're going to
need to
be 40. So, why would you idle around in groups of 3-4 your whole
career???
I assure you, a full balanced group is the best for exp and levels and
that IS
what matters in RvR. You all need to group with a good theurgist and
mezzer and
you'd realize this whole thread is moot. The monsters die fast and you
don't take dmg!
Maybe I'm just lucky and have a good guild. :-)
Spend the money if you want/need. But, if you can't, save it till you can
be a factor in
RvR and then go buy the PC stuff.
KH
Sirk 40 miinstrel Kay
nary
I had a pair of forlorn sleeves that was 89% quality. Every other piece I've
ever seen was 80% crap (and I've scored over 40 pieces)
Does dropped stuff rarely have a better quality than the usual 80% crap cap?
drocket
>What is the end-game in DAOC? RvR So, to be effective, you're going to
>need to
>be 40. So, why would you idle around in groups of 3-4 your whole
>career???
I've never been in a full group that's made decent XP. I mean that
seriously. I think part of that is the challenge code in XP gain -
the monsters you have to fight to get the cap in a full group tends to
be the stuff that can take out your tank in 3 hits unless everything
goes perfectly, and its all but impossible to get 8 people together
were someone isn't going to screw up every 20 minutes or so. Once you
factor in a death every hour or two, I can generally do better solo.
A group of 3-4 that works well together is MUCH easier to put
together. You need 1 tank-type, 1 healer OR bladeturn caster, and one
or 2 of any other class (other than another healer.) Once you got the
pattern going, you'll be taking down reds with no downtime and getting
the XP cap on every kill -plus- making a good chunk of change.
Electragician
news:u60kf1d...@corp.supernews.com...
> Does dropped stuff rarely have a better quality than the usual 80% crap
cap?
Not sure... I know my Dissolution Chain is 89% Quality, the Worn Dissolution
stuff is 80% I believe though. Duskwalkers chain is also all 89%, if I
remember correctly... it's been a while. Forlorn is all 80%, or at least
every piece I had was. I didn't have a full suit though.
Forlorn and Duskwalkers both served me quite well, when I was a younger
Minstrel. Unless you are a main tank, buying PC stuff at lower levels is
silly IMO, if you can get your hands on a set of Forlorn.
I'm not a main tank class, and I really can't see buying my first suit of
player crafted stuff till sometime around 40. The better quested and mob
drop stuff should carry me easily till then... with stat bonuses to boot,
and at a much cheaper price.
I almost decided to go for the set of PC stuff the other day, after reading
posts on here condemning mob drops. Then after thinking about it, I realised
it was all I'd ever worn, and I'd been doing just dandy... still soloing
yellows when necessary at 32.
Don't get me wrong, PC is definitely better... but for most classes in the
game, it's not going to change you from melee gimp to superhero ;) I'm
currently wearing a mixed suit of Dissolution Mail (not worn) and Awranite
Chain. Every piece is 89%, if I remember correctly, and plenty decent for a
Minstrel or Cleric.
Matt K
KrisH
drocket wrote:
I hear ya, it's hard to put a good full group together.
But, when you do, oh boy! Let the good times roll!
For example, I had the privilege to be in a barrows dragon room/phantom
group at
level 38. Cleric, theurgist, minstrel, and rest tanks. (well, ok a friar
for a backup
healer, but he was meleeing) Chain pulling and tanks
SCREAMING for END. LOL Well, 38 was history in a short (and fun) time...
And I left barrows with inventory full of 1-2gp each drops.
KH
Koneg
drocket <dro...@hotmail.com> scribbled the following:
>On Tue, 05 Feb 2002 20:50:16 GMT, KrisH <kho...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>What is the end-game in DAOC? RvR So, to be effective, you're going to
>>need to
>>be 40. So, why would you idle around in groups of 3-4 your whole
>>career???
>
>I've never been in a full group that's made decent XP. I mean that
>seriously.
Agreed - the most efficient groups BY FAR I've ever been in were 4 person
teams. (3 tanks, 1 cleric). We chain pull orange and red and everyone
levels in 2 hours or less.
[snip]
>A group of 3-4 that works well together is MUCH easier to put
>together. You need 1 tank-type, 1 healer OR bladeturn caster, and one
>or 2 of any other class (other than another healer.) Once you got the
>pattern going, you'll be taking down reds with no downtime and getting
>the XP cap on every kill -plus- making a good chunk of change.
And having a whole lot of fun. The normal crew I'm with consists of 2
armsmen, a pally, and a 2/3 rejuv 2/3 smite cleric. If we get a BAF or an
add the cleric mez's it and we can go literally non-stop for hours - to the
point where we're cracking jokes mid-fight, talking about armor prices in
the middle etc etc.. all while routinely hitting the exp caps. (We're all
within 1 level of each other - makes it much easier)
*sigh* Haven't seen them on in the last several days tho. *pout*
KrisH
I guess I've only been in full groups chain pulling reds and purples.
With BAF on every pull, wonder how the exp computes out...
There is strength in numbers. That strength is going to be needed if you do
any hunting deeper in barrows or out in the frontier.
KH
KrisH
But, is it sufficiently better to warrant the cost? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
For example, I was playing with a friend on the Morgan server and bought a piece of
reinforced armor for my blademaster from two PCs. Both were 90% quality.
Add to that the cost of enchanting items. Quite Underwhelming.
I also bought two quartz felcatas which were 93% and 98%. Now, those I was very
happy to fork over the gps for!
So, depending on who you buy from, your mileage will vary. (How about player crafters/guilds having
stores in game where people could go anytime to view and buy equipment?)
The mob drops my minstrel wears is also 89% and have stats and bonuses. They were all orange when I got them and I paid ZERO gps for them.
KH
Koneg
KrisH <kho...@hotmail.com> scribbled the following:
>Hmmm, chain pulling oranges and reds...
>I guess I've only been in full groups chain pulling reds and purples.
>With BAF on every pull, wonder how the exp computes out...
To use arbitrary numbers as an example...
One (red) mob worth 800 (100 group bonus) exp divided by 8 (in a perfect
group) would earn 1/8th the mobs exp, or 100 points.
One red mob worth 700 (no group bonus) exp, divided by 4 (in a perfect
split) would earn 1/4th the mobs exp, 175 points.
Downtime is lower as well. Fewer BAF, fewer chain-healings needed. Hell most
of the time our cleric gets in and melees for want of something to do.
>There is strength in numbers. That strength is going to be needed if you do
>any hunting deeper in barrows or out in the frontier.
Agreed - there are places where it's simply suicide to be without a full
group of 8. That said, a group of 4 will hit the exp cap quicker, easier,
and with less downtime, than a group of 8, but it needs to be in a spot
suited to smaller groups. Dungeons are definitely NOT for smaller crews. Had
a good group of four last night in Barrows barbarian room. (Had 7 earlier,
but lost 3) Even did a 2 mob pull (once :-) with no mez. (Engage is a
wonderful thing) Did great for about an hour. Still - too damned risky for
Barrows. One really bad three mob BAF and we wiped out ;-) Reds and purples
instead of oranges and reds will do that every time...
KrisH
However, a group of 8 (ie: with minstrel and theurgist ) is going to be able to take mobs much faster and safer than a group of 4. The longer a mob lives, the more dmg it does. So, more people can kill a mob faster
than less people? no?
(this simple fact was true in EQ and it's true in DAOC)
And with higher mobs/exp and group bonus for every kill, that's hard to beat.
KH
Koneg
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>That example would show the group of 4 making more exp if the group of
>8 is taking mobs at the same rate.
>However, a group of 8 (ie: with minstrel and theurgist ) is going to be
>able to take mobs much faster and safer than a group of 4. The longer a
>mob lives, the more dmg it does. So, more people can kill a mob faster
>than less people? no?
No. 4 in a crew only deal with BAF on very very rare occasions, and never at
all if they pick the right spot. A crew of 8 is rarely going to see an 8 v 1
fight. 8 v 3 is closer to the norm.
From my experience, a group of 4 has far less downtime than any group of 8
I've ever been in unless I was the puller. ;-)
>(this simple fact was true in EQ and it's true in DAOC)
>And with higher mobs/exp and group bonus for every kill, that's hard to
>beat.
Not really. A group of 8 pulling purples is rarely going to have the level
spread needed to get a perfect split - some will hit their caps, while
others in the group are only getting 80% or less of the exp they'd get from
a perfect split.
In a smaller group, even one with a semi-wide range of levels, the exp cap
is much easier to hit with less downtime.
All that being said, I just personally have found that smaller groups are,
on the whole, more efficient and more fun when exp grinding.
Rob Adams
news:slrna63e3v.l67.koneg@12-231-11-
> No. 4 in a crew only deal with BAF on very very rare occasions, and never
at
> all if they pick the right spot. A crew of 8 is rarely going to see an 8 v
1
> fight. 8 v 3 is closer to the norm.
>
> From my experience, a group of 4 has far less downtime than any group of 8
> I've ever been in unless I was the puller. ;-)
I agree with all of this, however, I prefer to find a group of 4 or 5 which
CAN get some BAF-action coming. That's where your mezzer has to be on the
ball - pull 3 or 4, mez all but one, then fight em one at a time. If the mez
is strong, you can even rest a bit between fights. The group bonus pays for
the bit of extra downtime. You just have to be prepared to run if you get
too many or they resist the mezzes. And obviously this is pulling oranges
and low reds, not purples!
I must have got at least 3 levels from groups of 5 (1 hunter to pull, my
healer to mez, 3 tanks to tank (duh)) pulling groups of 3-5 vendo spine
rippers. Sadly, they are now mostly yellow to me :(
Of course I'm biased by the fact that I feel much more "in" the fight if I
get to mez and/or stun than if I just stand there doling out heals ;)
KrisH
Koneg wrote:
In our last episode,
KrisH <kho...@hotmail.com> scribbled the following:--------------060902000804040003010406
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
That example would show the group of 4 making more exp if the group of
8 is taking mobs at the same rate.
However, a group of 8 (ie: with minstrel and theurgist ) is going to be
able to take mobs much faster and safer than a group of 4. The longer a
mob lives, the more dmg it does. So, more people can kill a mob faster
than less people? no?
No. 4 in a crew only deal with BAF on very very rare occasions, and never at
all if they pick the right spot. A crew of 8 is rarely going to see an 8 v 1
fight. 8 v 3 is closer to the norm.
From my experience, a group of 4 has far less downtime than any group of 8
I've ever been in unless I was the puller. ;-)
So, a BALANCED full group is going to be larger, but MORE efficient if you get the right classes. Exp cap has nothing to do with this, it's quantity I'm talking about. :-)
KH
Koneg
KrisH <kho...@hotmail.com> scribbled the following:
>
>Koneg wrote:
>
>>In our last episode,
>> KrisH <kho...@hotmail.com> scribbled the following:
>>
>>all if they pick the right spot. A crew of 8 is rarely going to see an 8 v 1
>>fight. 8 v 3 is closer to the norm.
>>
>>From my experience, a group of 4 has far less downtime than any group of 8
>>I've ever been in unless I was the puller. ;-)
>>
>My point is you WANT BAF on every pull, because you get the group bonus
>(on EVERY mob) which partly makes up for more of you in the group.
In a group of 8, yea. In a group of 4, you definitely don't need BAF to hit
your exp cap.
>a mezzer is key to this strategy. As is the bladeturn, haste, dmg add,
>and power song, which ALL help to take HIGHER level mobs FASTER, for
>MORE exp, tanks take LESS damage, with all the casters having LESS downtime.
Again - from my experience a group of 4 hits their cap with a higher ratio
of exp/hour than a group of eight will. YOUR experience may differ from
that.
>So, a BALANCED full group is going to be larger, but MORE efficient if
> you get the right classes.
It's a helluva lot easier to get a good group of four than it is to find a
balanced group of eight.
>Exp cap has nothing to do with this, it's quantity I'm talking about. :-)
Hit the cap on every kill, fight half as many mobs, earn more total EXP. Fun
huh?
KrisH
Koneg wrote:
a mezzer is key to this strategy. As is the bladeturn, haste, dmg add,
and power song, which ALL help to take HIGHER level mobs FASTER, for
MORE exp, tanks take LESS damage, with all the casters having LESS downtime.
Again - from my experience a group of 4 hits their cap with a higher ratio
of exp/hour than a group of eight will. YOUR experience may differ from
that.
If you haven't been able to put together a full group, my condolences. :-)
Your mileage will vary...
KH
KrisH
(700 xp + 100 group bonus ) / 8 = 100 per member
(700 xp ) / 4 = 175 per member
I propose that a group of 8 can kill atleast twice as fast as a group of 4.
100 per * 2 = 200 per pull (8 member group)
175 (4 member group)
However, if a group of 8 can pull 5 mobs in the time that it takes 4 to pull 2...
100 per * 5 = 500 per pull ( 8 member group)
175 per * 2 = 300 per pull (8 member group)
This is pulling the same level mobs. The larger balanced group can pull HIGHER level mobs for more exp...
(BTW, more mobs you pull, more drops you get)
Draw your own conclusions.
KH
KrisH
700 xp + 100 group bonus = 800/8 = 100 per member (8 member group)
700 xp / 4 = 175 per member (4 member group)
I propose that the 8 member group can kill atleast twice as fast as the 4 member group.
100 per * 2 = 200 (8 member group)
175 (4 member group)
If the 8 member group can kill slightly faster... ie: 5 mobs to 2.
100 per * 5 = 500 (8 member group)
175 per * 2 = 350 (4 member group)
The advantage of the larger group is then anywhere from 14 to 43% more exp in the same amount of time.
And this is pulling the same level mobs. The 8 member group can pull HIGHER mobs for MORE exp.
(BTW, the more mobs you pull, the more drops you get)
Draw your own conclusions.
KH
Koneg wrote: