C2 Book in Hand
sev...@worldnet.att.net
If I can provide any assistance to anyone, throw a question
at me, and I'll tell you what the book says (if anything).
Frank
***********************************************************************
Frank G. Neves, R.Hy "Credo Quia Absurdum"
Discl: No wife, no horse, no moustache Immanetize the Eschaton
***********************************************************************
Alessandra Kessler
>
> If I can provide any assistance to anyone, throw a question
> at me, and I'll tell you what the book says (if anything).
What? GRAGH! Barnes and Noble said it'd be a couple days!
-Alessandra
Lis Morris
sev...@worldnet.att.net wrote in message <36005C...@worldnet.att.net>...
>I just got the C2 Book delivered from Amazon.com
>
>If I can provide any assistance to anyone, throw a question
>at me, and I'll tell you what the book says (if anything).
>
Any question, eh? Ok...How is anaerobic respiration implemented in C2, and
why? <veg>
--
Lis Morris,
Evil Shee potato grower, and namer of Borland.
<deep breath>
New c2 norns with improved genome,
The new c1 world, Terra Nornia,
The Shee- a new c1 species,
Hippy norns, grorns and grendel pensioner sprites.
More C2 stuff on its way!
<gasp>
Get all the above by following this link:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/morris_family/hippy.htm
Argh it's a geekcode! www.geekcode.com
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GS d- s+:- a-- C++ U! P L- E? W+++$
N++ o? K? w++ O? M- V? PS+ PE- Y+ PGP--
t++ 5++ X- R* tv-- b+++ DI-- D-- G++ e++(++++)*
h!>- r*% z-*
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
"When you've got your back to the wall, the only thing
you can do is turn around and fight"-John Major.
Antonia Blair
Alessandra Kessler wrote in message <360033D1...@home.com>...
>> I just got the C2 Book delivered from Amazon.com
>>
>> If I can provide any assistance to anyone, throw a question
>> at me, and I'll tell you what the book says (if anything).
>
>
>-Alessandra
What th'??? There's a strategy guide already?? After I just wasted
all my money on CD's and an X-Files spoof book? NO!
"Life is but a burden..."~The tell-tale heart
Tonia
The One and Only Banana Girl
Knower of Trivial Knowledge at NORN
Weirdo at the Crow's Nest at the Jolly Weeble
And typical idiot in "real life." :-p
See the adorable Joe Comix...
Admire my table of Albian Flora....
Laugh at my idiotic attempts with C2....
Gasp at the beautiful graphics...
Come visit Tonia's Treehouse!
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Chasm/6016
~~~~~~~~~~
Awrizht. Qho twished my khys?
Angel Rivera
90599194...@newsch.es.co.nz...
>sev...@worldnet.att.net writes:
>What is the meaning to life? <g>
"Tis a secret untold, to hearts cruel and cold,
Though tis sung by the angels above;
In notes that ring clear for the ears that can hear,
And the name of the secret is Love!"
--Lewis Carroll's "Sylvie and Bruno Concluded"
>Why does art imitate life?
Because waay back when all art was used in sympathetic ma*ic, then you
needed a somewhat lifelike representation of the spellcastee, and some
PEOPLE have been stuck up on realism ever since.
>Why does life imitate art?
[Jason tries, unsuccessfully, to see life imitating Dalí's "Virgin
Autosodomized by her own Chastity"]
>Is life art?
"God made man perfectly holy and happy; and the fair earth, as it came from
the Creator's hand, bore no blight of decay or shadow of the curse. It is
transgression of God's law--the law of love--that has brought woe and death.
Yet even amid the suffering that results from sin, God's love is revealed.
[...] The world, though fallen, is not all sorrow and misery. In nature
itself are messages of hope and comfort. There are flowers upon the
thistles, and the thorns are covered with roses."
--Ellen G. White's "Steps to Christ"
>Is art life?
YES!
>How does art and life relate to digital life?
"If we wish to create real computer pets, animals that really are alive and
behave like living animals, we have to look towards nature."
--Toby Simpson's "Creatures: Official Strategies &
Secrets"
-Angel R.
--
I would just die if nobody came to my funeral...
No more spamblocks, send me all the passion you want... ICQUIN: 1936556
http://welcome.to/alt.binaries.games.creatures - Visit the abgc archive.
Emily Sachs
>
> >What is the meaning to life? <g>
>
>
> The meaning of life is..... 42
No! Life is a cereal! Therefore, the meaning of life is to be crunchy
even in milk :)
> Dee
> Queen of OOPS, Head of Website Security
> http://members.xoom.com/methe
--
Just a thought from: Emily Sachs
"Life's greatest happiness is to be
convinced we are loved -- loved for
ourselves, or rather, loved in spite of
ourselves."
~~Victor Hugo
KLaYmAn Oo
Okay...what's the best way to get a norn to eat??? explain that one!
KLaY
...Once created from gifted hands we once were, you shall find your fate in a
shattered clay pile....
KLaY's Lost Pardise
http://members.aol.com/Ettin0o0/creat
(Creatures2 WebPage)
Frimlin
> I just got the C2 Book delivered from Amazon.com
>
> If I can provide any assistance to anyone, throw a question
> at me, and I'll tell you what the book says (if anything).
>
> Frank
What is the meaning to life? <g>
Why does art imitate life?
Why does life imitate art?
Is life art?
Is art life?
How does art and life relate to digital life?
Frimlin
m@2
>I just got the C2 Book delivered from Amazon.com
>
>If I can provide any assistance to anyone, throw a question
>at me, and I'll tell you what the book says (if anything).
>
>Frank
Would you consider it necessary reading? Helpful? Essential? Or just
entertaining? (or whatever ...)
How does it compare with the first book?
Does it explain what the various chemicals do - what they are for and
what "normal" levels are? Does it explain about neuron firing? And
what about that colored liquid mixer thing-a-ma-gig. How is it used
and for what? Oh and the grendels ... the preface of the "manual"
talks about needing to find the gene splicer to ride Albia of the
Grendels - does it go into that any further? Lets see, oh! Does it
tell about seasons and what seeds need to be planted during what
seasons? And what about the Shee statue?
Well ... you volunteered for questions ... :-)
TIA,
m@2
***
He thought he saw a Rattlesnake that questioned him in Greek.
He looked again and found it was The Middle of Next Week.
'The one thing I regret; he said, is that it cannot speak'
- Lewis Carroll
Dee
>sev...@worldnet.att.net writes:
>
>> I just got the C2 Book delivered from Amazon.com
>>
>> If I can provide any assistance to anyone, throw a question
>> at me, and I'll tell you what the book says (if anything).
>>
>> Frank
>
>
>What is the meaning to life? <g>
WAIT!! I know this one!
The meaning of life is..... 42
Dee
sev...@worldnet.att.net
> >
> >If I can provide any assistance to anyone, throw a question
> >at me, and I'll tell you what the book says (if anything).
> >
> >Frank
>
> why? <veg>
>
> --
> Lis Morris,
Hmmm...let's see...
"The Creatures in Creatures 2 have two types of respiration
that produce the energy required by the ADP to ATP reaction:
anaerobic respiration and aerobic respiration. Anaerobic
respiration releases energy without requiring oxygen, and
aerobic respiration releases energy using oxygen. Aerobic
respiration produces considerably more energy. If a Creature
cannot breathe, minimal energy will be produced and the heart
is unlikely to be able to produce enough ATP for the organs
to function."
"The anaerobic respiration converts glucose into pyruvate,
releasing energy in the reaction. In aerobic respiration,
pyruvate reacts with oxygen to produce large amounts of
energy. Dissolved carbon dioxide also results from this
reaction.
If the lungs stop functioning, pyruvate builds up rapidly
in the bloodstream. A slow reaction converts this into
lactic acid. Lactic acid damages the muscle organ in the body,
and the presence of this chemical is a clear indication that
the lungs are not producing oxygen. Lactic acid reacts with
oxygen to produce more glucose, so you'll see levels of this
drop sharply if you resuscitate an unconscious Norn."
That's all I could initally find; I haven't had a chance to
go thru the book page by page yet.
Frank
sev...@worldnet.att.net
I found nothing in the book that hasn't already been talked
about in the newsgroup.
Frank
--
***********************************************************************
slink
>I just got the C2 Book delivered from Amazon.com
>
>If I can provide any assistance to anyone, throw a question
>at me, and I'll tell you what the book says (if anything).
>
>Frank
>***********************************************************************
>Frank G. Neves, R.Hy "Credo Quia Absurdum"
>Discl: No wife, no horse, no moustache Immanetize the Eschaton
>***********************************************************************
Really? Written by the very same company that Mark Ashon just said
hadn't the time to write a proper manual for the game? How *very*
interesting . . .
--
Sandra -> http://www.netins.net/showcase/slink/
GEEK CODE Version 3.12: GS>AT !d(++)@ s:+ a+ C+++($) !U(C/H$) P(+)@
L E? W++ N++ o? K? w(++)@ O !M V(+) PS+() PE(++)@ Y+ PGP? t++@ 5? X?
R+ tv-- b++(++++)@ DI++++ D G e++++ h+(++)($) r+++ x+++
sev...@worldnet.att.net
>
> sev...@worldnet.att.net writes:
>
> > I just got the C2 Book delivered from Amazon.com
> >
> > If I can provide any assistance to anyone, throw a question
> > at me, and I'll tell you what the book says (if anything).
> >
> > Frank
>
>
>
> Why does life imitate art?
>
> Is life art?
>
> Is art life?
>
> How does art and life relate to digital life?
>
> Frimlin
Can't help with those, since everyone's answers will be
correct for them; but if nothing else, Creatures Developers
Resource, Albia 2000, The Norn Underground and Slink's
Burrow Online, were all cited as excellent sources of
information.
sev...@worldnet.att.net
>
> On 16 Sep 1998 21:52:24 GMT sev...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> >I just got the C2 Book delivered from Amazon.com
> >
> >If I can provide any assistance to anyone, throw a question
> >at me, and I'll tell you what the book says (if anything).
> >
> >Frank
>
> entertaining? (or whatever ...)
>
> How does it compare with the first book?
>
> Does it explain what the various chemicals do - what they are for and
> what "normal" levels are? Does it explain about neuron firing? And
> what about that colored liquid mixer thing-a-ma-gig. How is it used
> and for what? Oh and the grendels ... the preface of the "manual"
> talks about needing to find the gene splicer to ride Albia of the
> Grendels - does it go into that any further? Lets see, oh! Does it
> tell about seasons and what seeds need to be planted during what
> seasons? And what about the Shee statue?
>
> Well ... you volunteered for questions ... :-)
>
I never bought the first book.
All it says about the colored liquid mixer (Chemical
Concoction Machine) is where to find it, and how to use
it. "Get a Norn to drink this liquid and watch what happens!"
It says that the Science Kit applet can be used to monitor
which chemicals get ingested. "Over time you'll learn how
to make medicines."
I haven't gotten into neural firings yet, or most of the
other stuff you asked about.
Frank
--
sev...@worldnet.att.net
>
> On 16 Sep 1998 21:52:24 GMT, sev...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
> >I just got the C2 Book delivered from Amazon.com
> >
> >If I can provide any assistance to anyone, throw a question
> >at me, and I'll tell you what the book says (if anything).
> >
> >Frank
> >Frank G. Neves, R.Hy "Credo Quia Absurdum"
> >Discl: No wife, no horse, no moustache Immanetize the Eschaton
> >***********************************************************************
>
> hadn't the time to write a proper manual for the game? How *very*
> interesting . . .
>
> --
> Sandra -> http://www.netins.net/showcase/slink/
> GEEK CODE Version 3.12: GS>AT !d(++)@ s:+ a+ C+++($) !U(C/H$) P(+)@
> L E? W++ N++ o? K? w(++)@ O !M V(+) PS+() PE(++)@ Y+ PGP? t++@ 5? X?
> R+ tv-- b++(++++)@ DI++++ D G e++++ h+(++)($) r+++ x+++
Toby Simpson was the author...
slink
>Frimlin wrote:
>>
>> sev...@worldnet.att.net writes:
>>
>> > I just got the C2 Book delivered from Amazon.com
>> >
>> > If I can provide any assistance to anyone, throw a question
>> > at me, and I'll tell you what the book says (if anything).
>> >
>> > Frank
>>
>> What is the meaning to life? <g>
>>
>> Why does art imitate life?
>>
>> Why does life imitate art?
>>
>> Is life art?
>>
>> Is art life?
>>
>> How does art and life relate to digital life?
>>
>> Frimlin
>
>Can't help with those, since everyone's answers will be
>correct for them; but if nothing else, Creatures Developers
>Resource, Albia 2000, The Norn Underground and Slink's
>Burrow Online, were all cited as excellent sources of
>information.
>
>Frank
>
>***********************************************************************
>Frank G. Neves, R.Hy "Credo Quia Absurdum"
>Discl: No wife, no horse, no moustache Immanetize the Eschaton
>***********************************************************************
I am gratified that my site was mentioned. I'll try to keep a good
supply of C1/C2 info there, however *don't* look on my site for
answers to Ashley's type of questions. <g>
tmburrell
Have a nice Day
PinkLady
Martha Brummett
>Really? Written by the very same company that Mark Ashton just said
>hadn't the time to write a proper manual for the game? How *very*
>interesting . . .
Surely you've heard of parthenogenesis? <g> Perhaps it was done by a
classified organ of some sort.
Martha Brummett
Piratical Maid-of-All-Work, P.B.* Jolly Weeble
mo...@diac.com
Bonadrey Nornery
http://www.diac.com/~mokus/bonadrey.html
* Pirate Brig
Julie Cox
have been included in the game? (Thinking of the massive manuals included
for most role playing strategy games.) right now _most_ of us are familiar
with C1, so actions and reactions are familiar. But if I had just
purchased this game site unseen and never had access to the newsgroup, I
would have quit playing after a couple of hours. I think the chemical
listings, the plant life, and the organ information should have been basic
information in the manual included with the game. Without that knowledge,
the game is complete confusion. Not every player that buys this game is
going to be a scientist ( or someone fresh from biology, chemestry,
genetics 101 at college or highschool). Cyberlife has done a lousy PR job
on this.
Sorry, but I needed to vent
Julie Cox
Dje...@concentric.net
sev...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> I just got the C2 Book delivered from Amazon.com
>
> If I can provide any assistance to anyone, throw a question
> at me, and I'll tell you what the book says (if anything).
>
> Frank
Lis Morris
sev...@worldnet.att.net wrote in message <360129...@worldnet.att.net>...
>> >
>> >If I can provide any assistance to anyone, throw a question
>> >at me, and I'll tell you what the book says (if anything).
>> >
>> >Frank
>>
Grah! how annoyingly impressive. I think it'd be useful to buy.. anyone
selling second hand?
Lis Morris
Julie Cox wrote in message <36013A24...@stonetransport.com>...
>When we purchase this manual, are we just paying 20$ more for what _should_
>have been included in the game? (Thinking of the massive manuals included
>for most role playing strategy games.) right now _most_ of us are familiar
>with C1, so actions and reactions are familiar. But if I had just
>purchased this game site unseen and never had access to the newsgroup, I
>would have quit playing after a couple of hours. I think the chemical
>listings, the plant life, and the organ information should have been basic
>information in the manual included with the game. Without that knowledge,
>the game is complete confusion. Not every player that buys this game is
>going to be a scientist ( or someone fresh from biology, chemestry,
>genetics 101 at college or highschool). Cyberlife has done a lousy PR job
>on this.
>
>Sorry, but I needed to vent
>
>Julie Cox
>Dje...@concentric.net
I agree. I get the feeling they released a deliberately small manual to make
people buy the book, which is why I'm not buying it.
Toby Simpson
slink wrote in message <360600ea...@news.netins.net>...
>Really? Written by the very same company that Mark Ashon just said
>hadn't the time to write a proper manual for the game? How *very*
>interesting . . .
That is not actually what he said (if that matters <g>)
Obviously, in a product such as Creatures 2 there is an enormous amount of
detail that can be gone into. It is impractical to ship a 200 page manual
with each product -- the production costs would make this impossible.
Likewise, to have a huge manual that went into enormous detail on the
technology behind the product would actually be a little much for most users
who just wish to enjoy interacting with the Creatures themselves and
actually are not interested in learning about aerobic respiration and the
purpose of lactic acid in the bloodstream.
The book is designed to go into that extra detail, to take all of the
systems inside Creatures 2 and explain them to a level of detail that we
simply cannot do inside a product manual (however much we'd like to, but if
we did, we'd scare people off. If I got a 200 page manual with my VCR I'd be
really alarmed, whereas many electronics fans would be delighted to have PCB
layout diagrams and component lists :-))
I guess it is a little like cars -- when you buy a new Ford, you don't
expect to get a detailed explanation of how the electrics and engine works,
and you don't expect to have detailed engineering instructions for budding
home mechanics -- if you wish to have this information, you buy the
additional documentation, because it only appeals to a small %age of the
overall consumer base of the product.
We made a great effort to improve on the manual in Creatures 1, by listening
to the feedback we had on both the UK manual and the US one, and judging
from what we have heard back so far from registration forms and e-mails, I
believe we certainly did a better job this time.
This does not diminish the value of opinions on the Creatures 2 manual,
though, and any constructive feedback will always be taken into account for
future manuals and documentation.
Best Rgds,
Toby
--
Toby Simpson
Creative Director, Creatures Products
CyberLife Technology Ltd.
www.creatures2.com, www.creatures.co.uk
mae...@nospam.demon.co.uk
<emy-...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>Dee wrote:
>> >What is the meaning to life? <g>
>> WAIT!! I know this one!
>> The meaning of life is..... 42
>
>No! Life is a cereal! Therefore, the meaning of life is to be crunchy
>even in milk :)
<G>. I just spent the last 3 hours panicking and re-typing
several hours worth of work on my dissertation, because I
accidentally copied an older version of a chapter over
the newer version, when I was trying to back it up on a
floppy. Result: lost all the pages I'd come up with between
4am and 6:30 am. I think right now the milk is winning. ;^)
Personally, over time I have come to think that what
becomes important is less the search for a meaning to
life, than the quest to find life meaningful. That, and getting
enough sleep. ;^)
A _very_ soggy Mae Tang...
(replace "nospam" with "nu-it" for a valid e-mail address)
sev...@worldnet.att.net
Toby,
I hope I haven't violated any copyright rules or anything,
by quoting from your book.
If I'm out of line in doing this, please let me know, and
I'll cease immediately.
Frank
--
slink
<to...@cyberlife.co.uk> wrote:
>
>slink wrote in message <360600ea...@news.netins.net>...
>>Really? Written by the very same company that Mark Ashon just said
>>hadn't the time to write a proper manual for the game? How *very*
>>interesting . . .
>
>
>That is not actually what he said (if that matters <g>)
>
OK, what he said exactly was
"I agree that the manual could have been a lot more in-depth - but as
with so many games unfortunately it has to be the last thing that's
done (otherwise it's in danger of going out of date) and we were
pushed for time, and what suffered was the manual. It's still a lot
better though than the C1 manual - I don't know if you ever saw that?"
Now, either the book is out of date or there was time for a proper
manual. Or, of course, the book is the manual. Just because it had
become common practice for games publishers to hide the true costs of
their games by splitting the manual out as an "optional" purchase does
not mean users have not caught on to that fact. I disagree,
incidentally, that the combined help files and manual in C1 were worse
than the C2 manual. In C2 the help files are identical in content to
the manual.
>Obviously, in a product such as Creatures 2 there is an enormous amount of
>detail that can be gone into. It is impractical to ship a 200 page manual
>with each product -- the production costs would make this impossible.
I doubt anyone actually asked CyberLife to provide a 200-page manual.
The question is how much of the 200-page book should have been a part
of the 27-page manual (I think one doesn't normally number the title
pages, credits, and warrenty disclaimer).
>Likewise, to have a huge manual that went into enormous detail on the
>technology behind the product would actually be a little much for most users
>who just wish to enjoy interacting with the Creatures themselves and
>actually are not interested in learning about aerobic respiration and the
>purpose of lactic acid in the bloodstream.
>
I noticed a quote about the biochemistry in another thread. I am glad
to see that Eric had some input into this book. The last one was
nearly devoid of technical content.
>The book is designed to go into that extra detail, to take all of the
>systems inside Creatures 2 and explain them to a level of detail that we
>simply cannot do inside a product manual (however much we'd like to, but if
>we did, we'd scare people off. If I got a 200 page manual with my VCR I'd be
>really alarmed, whereas many electronics fans would be delighted to have PCB
>layout diagrams and component lists :-))
>
I don't doubt the prospect of that much reading would alarm you. My
television came with a 53-page manual and had not one single PCB
layout diagram or any internal component list. My rototiller manual
had 2-3 times that many pages, was all very interesting and useful
reading for any gardener, and did not require any sort of technical
education.
>I guess it is a little like cars -- when you buy a new Ford, you don't
>expect to get a detailed explanation of how the electrics and engine works,
>and you don't expect to have detailed engineering instructions for budding
>home mechanics -- if you wish to have this information, you buy the
>additional documentation, because it only appeals to a small %age of the
>overall consumer base of the product.
>
I do expect to get detailed instructions on how to use the radio,
heater, speed control, etc as well as a schedule of recommended
maintainence and the grades of fuel and engine oil required, however.
The functions of all of the buttons on the console are normally
described. The last Ford I bought even came with a VCR tape covering
all of the features of the vehicle, including some nice ones I
probably would have missed, and a demonstration of how to climb a
muddy hill in 4-wheel drive which I found educational even though I am
sure I will never do that.
>We made a great effort to improve on the manual in Creatures 1, by listening
>to the feedback we had on both the UK manual and the US one, and judging
>from what we have heard back so far from registration forms and e-mails, I
>believe we certainly did a better job this time.
>
>This does not diminish the value of opinions on the Creatures 2 manual,
>though, and any constructive feedback will always be taken into account for
>future manuals and documentation.
>
>Best Rgds,
>Toby
--
Tim Clements
me...@shore.net (Dee ) wrote:
>Frimlin <frimlin...@ihug.co.nz> wrote:
>
>>sev...@worldnet.att.net writes:
>>
>>> I just got the C2 Book delivered from Amazon.com
>>>
>>> If I can provide any assistance to anyone, throw a question
>>> at me, and I'll tell you what the book says (if anything).
>>>
>>> Frank
>>
>>
>>What is the meaning to life? <g>
>
>
>WAIT!! I know this one!
>
>The meaning of life is..... 42
>
>Dee
>Queen of OOPS, Head of Website Security
>http://members.xoom.com/methe
Oh oh I knew that too ;)
-Darcie
Tim Clements
Emily Sachs <emy-...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>Dee wrote:
>>
>> >What is the meaning to life? <g>
>>
>> WAIT!! I know this one!
>>
>> The meaning of life is..... 42
>
>No! Life is a cereal! Therefore, the meaning of life is to be crunchy
>even in milk :)
>
>> Dee
>> Queen of OOPS, Head of Website Security
>> http://members.xoom.com/methe
>
>--
>
>Just a thought from: Emily Sachs
>
> "Life's greatest happiness is to be
> convinced we are loved -- loved for
> ourselves, or rather, loved in spite of
> ourselves."
> ~~Victor Hugo
LOL ok whatever.
-Darcie
Micronorn
>
> WAIT!! I know this one!
>
> The meaning of life is..... 42
NO!!! Completely wrong! The meaning of life is.... CREATURES!!!!!
--
Yet another delightfully crazy post by Micronorn, keeper of the Albian
gardens.
************************************************
The truth will let you free, but it will make you miserable first.
************************************************
Wait!
Don't go!
I'm not done yet!
I just started making sigs!
Grrr.
Fine then. Leave, why don't ya?
Fine. Here's the rest of my sig.
The avarege day in C2:
Hand: Boop push food
Boop: Boop very hungry, get food.
*looks at a doozer*
Hand: Look food
Boop: Boop extremely hungry, get food
Hand: Yes
*looks at the bugs passing by*
Hand: No. Look food!
Boop: Boop intensely hungry, get food
Hand: Look food
*looks at the bats*
Boop: Boop seriously hungry, get food
Hand: LOOK FOOD
*looks at the ettin*
Hand: LOOK FOOD! EAT FOOD! PUSH FOOD!!!
Boop: Boop Intensely hungry, get food
*Boop keels over and dies, due to starvation*
That's a true story, ya know!
Well, that's the end of my sig! Website coming soon!
Ali Maggs
such little plugs from others <g> - Miff, this aint an oppertunitiy for you
to answer, it was a retorical question :)
Ali
--
________________________________
The Brand Spanking New Albia2000
www.albia2000.demon.co.uk
Cob Tutorials, C2 Cobs, C1 Cobs, Creatures, Who's who at agc, Toby Shrine,
NornTV, And a load of new stuff :) <g>
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Jollificational Lightning Seeds
http://members.aol.com/jollifyweb/seeds/
slink wrote in message <36021d8a...@news.netins.net>...
>On 17 Sep 1998 12:31:32 GMT, sev...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>
>>Frimlin wrote:
>>>
>>> sev...@worldnet.att.net writes:
>>>
>>> > I just got the C2 Book delivered from Amazon.com
>>> >
>>> > If I can provide any assistance to anyone, throw a question
>>> > at me, and I'll tell you what the book says (if anything).
>>> >
>>> > Frank
>>>
>>> What is the meaning to life? <g>
>>>
>>> Why does art imitate life?
>>>
>>> Why does life imitate art?
>>>
>>> Is life art?
>>>
>>> Is art life?
>>>
>>> How does art and life relate to digital life?
>>>
>>> Frimlin
>>
>>Can't help with those, since everyone's answers will be
>>correct for them; but if nothing else, Creatures Developers
>>Resource, Albia 2000, The Norn Underground and Slink's
>>Burrow Online, were all cited as excellent sources of
>>information.
>>
>>Frank
>>
>>***********************************************************************
>>Frank G. Neves, R.Hy "Credo Quia Absurdum"
>>Discl: No wife, no horse, no moustache Immanetize the Eschaton
>>***********************************************************************
>
>I am gratified that my site was mentioned. I'll try to keep a good
>supply of C1/C2 info there, however *don't* look on my site for
>answers to Ashley's type of questions. <g>
>
RxySrfGrrl
I also agree, even games that aren't very complex come with info-packed manuals
about how to control and use the game. Obviously Creatures 2 is much more
complex than a RPG (I'm definately not insulting RPGs, I love them.) and isn't
a very good comparison. They could have at least told us what to expect with
the different seasons and chemicals. They didn't even talk about the ettin and
grendel selector or continuous scrolling (Well, not to my knowledge, I've got a
bit of memory loss right now). Someone would be seriously confused if they saw
this. And people without access to the internet have no clue whatsoever about
how to resurrect an unconcious norn. I'm not buying the book, because as Lis
said, it sounds like a ply to make more money, and also because I want to buy
three more games (Parasite Eve, and *cringe* Dogz 3 and Catz 3) and have a
little less money than I'd like.
Ally
The Newest Albian High Priestess
"Why do I always have to breed with Das?"
-Emy
Aurorahe
>>When we purchase this manual, are we just paying 20$ more for what _should_
>>have been included in the game? (Thinking of the massive manuals included
>>for most role playing strategy
>I agree. I get the feeling they released a deliberately small manual to make
>people buy the book, which is why I'm not buying it.
>
I was going to post this, but y'all beat me to it.
Convince me, Cyberlife...offer a discount, or a money back coupon for those of
us that buy the manual after we purchased your game for darn near $50 bucks.
I, for one, am NOT put off by a manual of 200 pages or more.
(and I'm wondering here if there's not a bit of sexism in that statement, since
Creatures is a 'girl game'...which goes to show you what Marketing knows, eh?)
I own a copy of SimEarth (anyone remember THAT one, and it had a bigger manual
than the strategy guide of Creatures 1...(and was a lot more helpful. The
strategy guide for Creatures wasted about 40 pages or more telling me how to
run applets and regurgitating the game manual. I ALREADY knew how to use Ctrl
+ S, for example.) I also have SSI's Unlimited Adventures and that had a
ungodly huge manual that you had to print out and I think it was about 150
pages long.
I may not read them IMMEDIATELY, playing the game for a while first, so I have
some frame of reference, but I do read them, and am NEVER intimidated. Most
often I am relieved because an extensive manual means that I don't have to
spend sleepless nights on the internet, trolling for information that I would
need to enjoy my game.
I don't expect the manual to include a HOW-TO of cobbling, I don't mind
trolling for THAT information, but I DO expect my manual to explain a bit more
about this game, which is very frustrating (with the scant information given).
If I hadn't found this newsgroup, I would NEVER have reinstalled Creatures, and
the people here convinced me that there was more to this game, they explained
more of how things work and gave a general direction, many directions,
actually. Their input convinced me to buy Creatures 2, despite my initial
disappointment with Creatures 1.
Aurorahe
Tim Clements
"Toby Simpson" <to...@cyberlife.co.uk> wrote:
>
>slink wrote in message <360600ea...@news.netins.net>...
>>Really? Written by the very same company that Mark Ashon just said
>>hadn't the time to write a proper manual for the game? How *very*
>>interesting . . .
>
>
>That is not actually what he said (if that matters <g>)
>
>Obviously, in a product such as Creatures 2 there is an enormous amount of
>detail that can be gone into. It is impractical to ship a 200 page manual
>with each product -- the production costs would make this impossible.
>Likewise, to have a huge manual that went into enormous detail on the
>technology behind the product would actually be a little much for most users
>who just wish to enjoy interacting with the Creatures themselves and
>actually are not interested in learning about aerobic respiration and the
>purpose of lactic acid in the bloodstream.
>
>The book is designed to go into that extra detail, to take all of the
>systems inside Creatures 2 and explain them to a level of detail that we
>simply cannot do inside a product manual (however much we'd like to, but if
>we did, we'd scare people off. If I got a 200 page manual with my VCR I'd be
>really alarmed, whereas many electronics fans would be delighted to have PCB
>layout diagrams and component lists :-))
>
>I guess it is a little like cars -- when you buy a new Ford, you don't
>expect to get a detailed explanation of how the electrics and engine works,
>and you don't expect to have detailed engineering instructions for budding
>home mechanics -- if you wish to have this information, you buy the
>additional documentation, because it only appeals to a small %age of the
>overall consumer base of the product.
>
>We made a great effort to improve on the manual in Creatures 1, by listening
>to the feedback we had on both the UK manual and the US one, and judging
>from what we have heard back so far from registration forms and e-mails, I
>believe we certainly did a better job this time.
>
>This does not diminish the value of opinions on the Creatures 2 manual,
>though, and any constructive feedback will always be taken into account for
>future manuals and documentation.
>
>Best Rgds,
>Toby
>--
>Toby Simpson
>Creative Director, Creatures Products
>CyberLife Technology Ltd.
>www.creatures2.com, www.creatures.co.uk
>
>
>
You realy should put the Trupit plants pic with it's name in the plant section. Most peaple
wont pick up on it's name just by noticing the fruit desription in the helth kit.
-Darcie
(Yes I do pick up on alot of things ;) My web sight has all the names you need
http://www.geocities.com/EnchantedForest/Dell/3395/c2.html and some you don't LOL
Julie Cox
said was pretty much the same reply to the original thread. And my
answer back was along the lines that it was still an excuse. I don't
believe we are interested in the "technical" aspects of the game, we are
interested in the "What the Hail does this mean, or what is that" aspect
of the game. If you turn the volume right it gets louder, left it gets
softer, this organ # is....
Julie Cox
Dje...@concentric.net
http://www.concentric.net/~Djehmli/Creatures.shtml
Emily Sachs
mae...@nospam.demon.co.uk wrote:
>
> <G>. I just spent the last 3 hours panicking and re-typing
> several hours worth of work on my dissertation, because I
> accidentally copied an older version of a chapter over
> the newer version, when I was trying to back it up on a
> floppy. Result: lost all the pages I'd come up with between
> 4am and 6:30 am. I think right now the milk is winning. ;^)
>
> Personally, over time I have come to think that what
> becomes important is less the search for a meaning to
> life, than the quest to find life meaningful. That, and getting
> enough sleep. ;^)
Sleep? What's that?
Oh, you mean that thing that *normal* people do at nightime... I see... Never
tried it, don't like it :)
> A _very_ soggy Mae Tang...
--
Just a thought from: Emily Sachs
Emy, NORN Liason to Programs of Artificial Intelligence on the Web
Emy of the WolfPack
The Moof Pirate Emy of the Jolly Weeble
Emy, the Grendel Goddess of the Albian Quartity
Emy, the a.g.c Goddess of Comedy and Philosophy
How's that for a load of titles?
(AKA: Elis/Eris/Eilan/Eliantha/Morgan/Nyx/Psyche/Lethe/Elana/
Erida/Iris/Nemesis)
Probably more as I think of them!
<plug>
Visit my Creatures page, home of eem, the unofficial a.g.c mascot!
http://members.xoom.com/Emy/
</plug>
ICQ: 8980276
Mail to:
Emy-...@mediaone.net Emy...@yahoo.com Emy...@hotmail.com
"When you come to the edge of all that you know, you must believe one of
two things; there will be earth upon which to stand, or you will be
given wings to fly."
General Lee D. Mented
in the meager online help that comes with C2. What "leftright" is is
explained there. Why the green fruit only reproduces when touched by a
butterfly is explained there, etc.
Julie Cox wrote in message <36019DB9...@concentric.net>...
Bean 118
>> >What is the meaning to life? <g>
>>
>>
>> The meaning of life is..... 42
>
>even in milk :)
>
I thought it was: "Ask Mikey, he likes it.."
Bean, Goddess of Ettin, one of the a.g.c trinity, ect, ect...
"His men would follow him anywhere, but only out of morbid curiosity."
-An actual performance review.
Visit ALB-Labs!
http://members.aol.com/bean118/alblabs.html
mae...@nospam.demon.co.uk
<lis_m...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>Julie Cox wrote in message <36013A24...@stonetransport.com>...
>>When we purchase this manual, are we just paying 20$ more for what _should_
>>have been included in the game? (Thinking of the massive manuals included
>>for most role playing strategy games.)
Yeah. For some games, a thorough manual is simply
essential. <waves 78 page copy of the Dungeon Keeper
manual> One of the points which Cyberlife, and various
players have been repeatedly stressing on this NG and
elsewhere, is that the World in C2 is far larger, far more
complex and far more diverse in lifeforms/plant types/
COBs, etc. This is a really great feature, and is one of the
reasons I have decided to buy the game when it comes
out here this Friday (even despite the C2 genome
problems).
However, I get the impression from a lot of the very basic
questions on the NG, that this enormous, new World is
not adequately documented in the manual. IMO if this is
such a great feature and selling point, it has got to be
something to go into detail about in the manual. I mean,
if Slink hadn't printed a list of the chemicals from that coloured
liquid vending machine, I could easily see my norns getting
accidentally poisonned while I tried to figure out what it was
that the liquids actually do (remember the speculation here
that the colours would change the pigment of your norns?).
There are some things that players really do need to know,
if they are going to _enjoy_ having their norns interact with
this great new environment (exciting dangers and all).
If it really is so uneconomical to produce what should IMO
be a basic manual for the game, then why not at least offer
the relevant info in an FAQ form on the Cyberlife pages?
People who enjoy being "surprised" by their norns dropping
dead after a taste of liquid x, could give that page a miss.
But the option would be there for concerned players to look
up their questions. I mean, if the "wraparound bug" is actually
deep sand, then a lot of confusion could have been saved
if that info was included in the manual, or an on-line FAQ. That
everyone could afford to use.
>I agree. I get the feeling they released a deliberately small manual to make
>people buy the book, which is why I'm not buying it.
It does strike me as suspicious. I think that folks here will
produce good FAQs for C2 over time. But they're doing that
for free, and offering it as a free service to other players. IMO
if Cyberlife really does want that info to be available to the
general public, the economics of getting the info out isn't
really such a big constraint. It certainly won't cost me 20$ to
print out a copy of the coloured liquids from Slink's post here.
Mae Tang
Toby Simpson
and that is how we make progress. You yourself know how much your
contribution helped the underlying structure of Creatures 2 to provide us
all with so many more possibilities. Nothing is ever perfect, but we'll work
on taking on board all constructive critisism and using that to help us with
future Creatures products so we can make them even better.
Toby
--
Toby Simpson (Personal account)
Angel Rivera
>WAIT!! I know this one!
>
>The meaning of life is..... 42
Nah, that's the answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and
*Everything*.
Now, we may not know what that is, but given that *Everything* is in there,
it's probably not your puny life! <g>
=> Jason!
--
Visits always give pleasure - if not the arrival, the departure.
No more spamblocks, send me all the passion you want... ICQUIN: 1936556
http://welcome.to/alt.binaries.games.creatures - Visit the abgc archive.
slink
<to...@lobster.cix.co.uk> wrote:
>Pack away the knives, please. We're still listening, we've always listened,
>and that is how we make progress. You yourself know how much your
>contribution helped the underlying structure of Creatures 2 to provide us
>all with so many more possibilities. Nothing is ever perfect, but we'll work
>on taking on board all constructive critisism and using that to help us with
>future Creatures products so we can make them even better.
>
>Toby
Knives? That was civilized rebuttal, my good man. :)
mae...@nospam.demon.co.uk
<emy-...@mediaone.net> wrote:
>mae...@nospam.demon.co.uk wrote:
>>
>> Personally, over time I have come to think that what
>> becomes important is less the search for a meaning to
>> life, than the quest to find life meaningful. That, and getting
>> enough sleep. ;^)
>
>Sleep? What's that?
<g>
>Oh, you mean that thing that *normal* people do at nightime... I see... Never
>tried it, don't like it :)
ROTFL! Wait, you mean there _are_ people who sleep
at night? What weridos... ;^)
m@2
[...]
>> Would you consider it necessary reading? Helpful? Essential? Or just
>> entertaining? (or whatever ...)
>>
>> How does it compare with the first book?
>>
>> Does it explain what the various chemicals do - what they are for and
>> what "normal" levels are? Does it explain about neuron firing? And
>> what about that colored liquid mixer thing-a-ma-gig. How is it used
>> and for what? Oh and the grendels ... the preface of the "manual"
>> talks about needing to find the gene splicer to ride Albia of the
>> Grendels - does it go into that any further? Lets see, oh! Does it
>> tell about seasons and what seeds need to be planted during what
>> seasons? And what about the Shee statue?
[...]
>I never bought the first book.
>
>All it says about the colored liquid mixer (Chemical
>Concoction Machine) is where to find it, and how to use
>it. "Get a Norn to drink this liquid and watch what happens!"
>It says that the Science Kit applet can be used to monitor
>which chemicals get ingested. "Over time you'll learn how
>to make medicines."
>
>I haven't gotten into neural firings yet, or most of the
>other stuff you asked about.
Thanks! Keep us posted as you get further along ... Would really like
to know how deep into the internals it goes. From what you read of the
"Chemical Concoction Machine", it's already sounding a bit
disappointing. Hopefully it's just that particular topic.
I didn't find the first book very useful at all. It was interesting,
and makes for a complete collection of Creatures 'stuff', but wasn't
much more informative than the info already available.
I'm hoping this second book will be a little more complete - in depth
in the inner workings and chemical combinations/results, purpose etc..
Thanks for your help so far!
* * * * * * * * *
... Evolve or Die ...
m@2
--
Karin (aka m@2) email: emato@gate-dot-net
Homepage: (still under construction)
Emily Sachs
mae...@nospam.demon.co.uk wrote:
>
> >Sleep? What's that?
>
> <g>
Actually, I meant that... Haven't had too much experiance with sleep :)
> >Oh, you mean that thing that *normal* people do at nightime... I see... Never
> >tried it, don't like it :)
>
> ROTFL! Wait, you mean there _are_ people who sleep
> at night? What weridos... ;^)
I know! Why sleep at night when you can sleep during Precalc? Err...ummm... I
should actually try to stay awake; I'm beginning to fall behind because I was
absent half the week :)
> Mae Tang
Hkac
On Thu, 17 Sep 1998 20:10:52 +0100
"Toby Simpson" <to...@cyberlife.co.uk
wrote:
<snip>>
>Obviously, in a product such as Creatures 2 there is an enormous amount of
>detail that can be gone into. It is impractical to ship a 200 page manual
>with each product -- the production costs would make this impossible.
>Likewise, to have a huge manual that went into enormous detail on the
>technology behind the product would actually be a little much for most users
>who just wish to enjoy interacting with the Creatures themselves and
>actually are not interested in learning about aerobic respiration and the
>purpose of lactic acid in the bloodstream.
That would be me. I've bred a pretty wide varity of critters over the last 35
years without knowing any of that stuff. But these guys are a lot harder to
tend to than in C1 and the manual that came with the game doesn't cover enough
for me to figure out how to get them to just survive. It's like you've got to
understand all that to keep their organs from dying.
<snip again>
>... if
>we did, we'd scare people off. If I got a 200 page manual with my VCR I'd be
>really alarmed...
Yeah, guess I would be too.
<more snipping>
>I guess it is a little like cars -- when you buy a new Ford, you don't
>expect to get a detailed explanation of how the electrics and engine works,
>and you don't expect to have detailed engineering instructions for budding
>home mechanics -- if you wish to have this information, you buy the
>additional documentation, because
>it only appeals to a small %age of the
>overall consumer base of the product.
>
I was pretty angry about the game costing $40 and then after you buy it you
find out that you need to spend another $20 on the directions to play it. Felt
a lot like y'all were money grubbin. This analogy makes it seem *just a bit*
different. I have never had a car that I didn't go buy the Hanes or Chiltons
for. Creatures is the first PC game I've ever bought, who'd of thought you'd
need an owners manual to play a game.
<snip, snip>
I really do love the world, I can even live with the broken toys, black holes,
things stuck in the floor and the dead Ettin that won't go away. If only the
Norns could survive without having to learn chemistry and genitics.
- - - -
HC
xOtix
heartily agree!!!") <lopsided grin>
Hkac wrote in message
<19980919045958...@ng110.aol.com>...
>
><snip, snippety>
>
>I really do love the world, I can even live with the broken
toys, black holes,
>things stuck in the floor and the dead Ettin that won't go
away. If only the
>Norns could survive without having to learn chemistry and
genitics.
>- - - -
>HC
~ jann
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(who is STILL not getting half the agc posts! but my server is
working on it, so they say!) >:(
...a victim of bad propagation.(according to Jason Westman) =Ž
"I may be slow, but that's 'cause I'm so deep!" =|
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
New email addy:
quickxotixatbconnex.net
(remove the 'quick' and change 'at' to @)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jannart Digital Design & Animation
www.jannart.on.ca (not so NEW anymore)
(not a Creatures site --but I'm working on one)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~