Norn language studies

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DJs Red 1

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Oct 1, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/1/97
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I recently (bout a week ago) started studying the structure of the Norns'
spoken language. I was wondering if anyone else has done the same. I would
like to compare notes. They seem to use some of the same sounds for different
words. Anyone interested? E-mail me at DJs...@aol.com, or just post here.
So far I have the following words clearly defined. Note: I will write what
they mean (ie: look) and than a rough spelling of what they say. The places
where the accents would be are capitilized.

Run = CHIN-do
Food = DO-ra-DO
no = NO-ho
toy = TO-he (wierd how this almost sounds like toy....)
come = o-PE-ca
drink = ma-HO-ho

Now here is a sound that they use for three different words:
lift, Zed (a Norn's name), and yes = CHIN-pa

What do you guys think? I'd probably have more right now, if my sister didn't
constantly harass me (in general and to see me tickle the norns). ::sigh::
:)
Daljit

"For a perfect world, Where children are laughing, Lovers romancing, Time
stands still, A perfect world, There's nothing to cry for, No one to die for,
Wonderful, In a perfect world." -Ace of Base

"Nornan PUSH hydrogen bomb..."

ICQ#3206846

DJs Red 1

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Oct 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/2/97
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>Dude, you've got WAY too much free time! ;-)

Quiet you! :) Well, maybe you're right... So, ya interested?

CHABUHI

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Oct 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/2/97
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In article <19971001225...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,

djs...@aol.com (DJs Red 1) writes:

>I recently (bout a week ago) started studying the structure of the Norns'
> spoken language. I was wondering if anyone else has done the same. I would
> like to compare notes. They seem to use some of the same sounds for
>different
> words. Anyone interested? E-mail me at DJs...@aol.com, or just post here.
>
> So far I have the following words clearly defined. Note: I will write what
> they mean (ie: look) and than a rough spelling of what they say. The places
> where the accents would be are capitilized.
>
>Run = CHIN-do
>Food = DO-ra-DO
>no = NO-ho
>toy = TO-he (wierd how this almost sounds like toy....)
>come = o-PE-ca
>drink = ma-HO-ho
>
>Now here is a sound that they use for three different words:
>lift, Zed (a Norn's name), and yes = CHIN-pa
>
>What do you guys think? I'd probably have more right now, if my sister
>didn't
> constantly harass me (in general and to see me tickle the norns). ::sigh::
> :)
>Daljit

Dude, you've got WAY too much free time! ;-)


--Chab
-----------------------------------------------------------
ARTIFICIAL DEATH: A Tribute to The Creatures' "Project"
http://members.aol.com/creetchers
Updated when I'm not pushing food

slink

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Oct 2, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/2/97
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On 1 Oct 1997 22:56:37 GMT, djs...@aol.com (DJs Red 1) wrote:

>I recently (bout a week ago) started studying the structure of the Norns'
> spoken language. I was wondering if anyone else has done the same. I would
> like to compare notes. They seem to use some of the same sounds for different
> words. Anyone interested? E-mail me at DJs...@aol.com, or just post here.
> So far I have the following words clearly defined. Note: I will write what
> they mean (ie: look) and than a rough spelling of what they say. The places
> where the accents would be are capitilized.
>
>Run = CHIN-do
>Food = DO-ra-DO
>no = NO-ho
>toy = TO-he (wierd how this almost sounds like toy....)
>come = o-PE-ca
>drink = ma-HO-ho
>
>Now here is a sound that they use for three different words:
>lift, Zed (a Norn's name), and yes = CHIN-pa
>
>What do you guys think? I'd probably have more right now, if my sister didn't
> constantly harass me (in general and to see me tickle the norns). ::sigh::
> :)
>Daljit
>

>"For a perfect world, Where children are laughing, Lovers romancing, Time
> stands still, A perfect world, There's nothing to cry for, No one to die for,
> Wonderful, In a perfect world." -Ace of Base
>
>"Nornan PUSH hydrogen bomb..."
>
>ICQ#3206846

If it will help you, there are 28 sounds that the norns make, listed
in female.vce and male.vce. For the female these WAV files are:

boh1 noh1 mah1 chn1
weh1 yau1 do_1 bee1
pah1 zyo1 niy1 ha_1
cah1 koh1 beh1 ber1
dah1 ee_1 foo1 kah1
ke_1 mno1 poh1 rah1
ras1 sei1 wah1 wee1

The files for the male have a zero in place of the one.

I suspect that it is some kind of phonetic system, but I don't know
enough about it to help much. There are words other than "toy" that
sound right. "Push", "computer" and "pretty" all sound pretty close
to my ear.


Sandra

http://www.netins.net/showcase/slink/

CHABUHI

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Oct 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/3/97
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In article <19971002234...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,

djs...@aol.com (DJs Red 1) writes:

>>Dude, you've got WAY too much free time! ;-)
>

>Quiet you! :) Well, maybe you're right... So, ya interested?
>Daljit
>
>

I would love to, but I should probably start to get a little serious about
getting a job.

Mmead42

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Oct 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/3/97
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Possible suggestion-try the SST. Then you can listen to all the words
whenever you want, and write them down.
A dictionary entry:
If anyone else calls the hand Me, the sound they make is Mah-tah.


DJs Red 1

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Oct 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/3/97
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>Possible suggestion-try the SST. Then you can listen to all the words
>whenever you want, and write them down.

I'm using the En for that right now, but it goes to fast. I'm gonna have to
get the sst.

>If anyone else calls the hand Me, the sound they make is Mah-tah.

Thanks. I'm gonna try to get the basic vocabulary down (push, pull, hot,
tired, etc) and then I'm going to teach them a whole bunch of words they would
not ordinarily say (book, pen, paper, tape, CD, etc) and see if i can get a
human to norn translation thing going. Than I'll be able to express myself
completely in Nornish and no one will know what I'm saying! Bwa ha ha! ;)

Ricardo J. Mendez

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Oct 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/3/97
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In article <19971003193...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
mme...@aol.com (Mmead42) wrote:


> A dictionary entry:


> If anyone else calls the hand Me, the sound they make is Mah-tah.


I hadn't payed attention to the sound they make. Interesting. Maybe
Mah-tah ... Mo-tha ... Mo-ther...


Ricardo J. Méndez
http://www.tecapro.com/usr/ricardo/ mailto:ric...@tecapro.com
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Peaks/6442/

-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet

DJs Red 1

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Oct 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/3/97
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>I would love to, but I should probably start to get a little serious about
>getting a job.


A job? Now why would anyone want that? :)

Good luck, Chab.

Mmead42

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Oct 3, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/3/97
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It's weird, the sounds they use. Our Norn Orphan called herself YO dididi!
Color calls herself something that sounds like the word for Afraid. (Sure
makes me keep close track of her!)
Now, if someone else named a Norn Orphan, would they be YOdididi too? I'd
be curious to find out.

DJs Red 1

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Oct 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/4/97
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To Lummox and whomever he sniped from (Sandra I believe?):

About the sound files, I went into the sounds directory and played every sound
there until I had a list of all the sounds the norns make, and I came up with
the same thing you did. Leave it to me to find the hard way to do everything.
;) Lummox, good luck with getting a respoonse from Cyberlife. Maybe they
haven't responded because they're hiding something... (I love stiring up
conspiracies... };> )

It would also be interesting to find out what the grendels are saying. They
have a language all their own, but they seem to be able to communicate with
the norns. Like in the wolfling world I'm running, he's taught them that the
ball is "bilp". And do ou know what he calls himself? Not fifi, as many
other people's grendels have called themselves, but . . . Grndl. Perhaps he
has a problem with vowles.

I have some more words figured out:
get = YO-ha
stop = DO-ra-de
drop = MA-ho=he
pull = YAU-ca-THO

BTW, could you guys e-mail me stuff about the language studies, my newsgroup
reader doesn't seem to want to pick up all the messages. It's really
annoying.

DJs Red 1

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Oct 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/4/97
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>I hadn't payed attention to the sound they make. Interesting. Maybe
>Mah-tah ... Mo-tha ... Mo-ther...


I was thinking along similar lines. Did you know that in almost all the
different human languages, the word for "mother" almost always begins with an
"m" sound? Perhaps Cyberlife has made this more real than we thought....

DJs Red 1

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Oct 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/4/97
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Um, not to sound rude or anything, but could you quote messages you're replying
to? Otherwise, the conversation is hard to follow. Any norn words that you
have been able to define, please post! I'd like to see if they are different
on different systems. I'd heard something about that shortly before I started
this little project. ANY input from ANYONE is welcome! :)

Mmead42

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Oct 4, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/4/97
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I'm not sure, but I react just as though they'd called me Mama! ;)

Lummox JR

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Oct 6, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/6/97
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Mmead42 wrote:
> I wrote down a big list of Norn words last night-are there any left that
> haven't been posted yet?

The complete list of known words is at the Norn Underground, on the
Reference page. There are at present 52 words a Norn can use. Unless
Cyberlife releases new species or new object classes, or, somehow, new
verbs, there won't be any new ones.
Norn vocabulary is limited to 80 words and, as I said, only 52 are
actually used. Of those, you can only teach (using standard methods) a
certain number; the others are either drive/need words or obscure verbs
not included in the computer.
At the Norn Underground you can download the super speech toy, which
teaches 50 words (leaving out the creature's name and the hand's name).
Or, you can follow the link to Slink's Burrow Online, where you can
download Encyclopedia Nornica which also teaches words.

Lummox JR

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Finder W

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Oct 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/7/97
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Good luck on that one. We had a tough time trying to get our norns not to
eat weeds. What used to annoy me was they would say Push Weed and I'd say
NO/and or Slap them so they would back off. They'd then go back to the
weed and look at me, smile big and then chomp down on the weeds no matter
HOW many times I slapped. I finally got fed up and removed the weeds.

Finder


Lummox JR

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Oct 7, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/7/97
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Annie Fall wrote:
> I have a norn that, even though she's learned the word "no" from
> the SST she doesn't respond to it or seem to notice it at all. I try
> to teach her about the weeds and the plants and she eats them all
> unless I spank her, but that's after the fact and I don't think she's
> actually learning from it.
>
> I've backed her up at 4 minutes old and I keep restoring and trying
> over and over again but I can't figure out how to teach her about
> the weeds. She just gobbles till I spank and then does it again when
> she thinks I'm not looking.

That sounds like a genetic defect. Most likely, her brain's not wired to
understand the word "no". That's just a theory, though; I still know
very little about the brain structure and how it works.

> Really I'm not that good at teaching about them anyway and if anyone
> has some suggestions about that I'd like to hear them. I get them to
> look at the weeds and I say no and weed alternately. I've also tried
> saying "no weed" or "no push weed" or "no push" or those same
> combinations with "no" after the other word instead of before it.
> All of these methods seem to sort of work sometimes but never
> that well and occasionally they have very little effect. I usually
> give a small spanking after they take a bite of the weed but I'm
> not sure that helps either.

A spank after biting the weed should indeed help. Or, the training weed
might work (COB Tutorial Lesson 3 at the Norn Underground). If spanks
aren't doing any good at all, then it may be possible that she's not
responding to pain or to punishment, or that her "spank" stimulus is
genetically wired wrong.
"no weed" would probably work better than "no push weed", since on one
hand you're combining a verb and a noun, and on the other hand you're
using two verbs and a noun. The first is probably simpler to understand,
assuming the Norns can pick up on a two-verb phrase.
I think, incidentally, that the reason Norns respond so well to a
verb/noun combination is that each word, when recognized, fires neurons
that focus a Norn's thought. So "no weed" might actually be the best way
to discourage weed eating, since it fires two neurons at once and may
form an association.
Don't worry excessively about your Norn's weed-eating habits, though, as
long as you can get her away from them. I have a Norn who tried to eat
the Death Cap, despite punishment. I got him away from it and he moved
on.
It might help to use the weed killer or weed hider COBs available at the
Norn Underground.

Lummox JR

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Mmead42

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Oct 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/8/97
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Actually, the problem was that THEY got fed up with the weeds. ;>

Mycophile

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Oct 8, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/8/97
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Annie Fall wrote:
> I have a norn that, even though she's learned the word "no" from
> the SST she doesn't respond to it or seem to notice it at all. I try
> to teach her about the weeds and the plants and she eats them all
> unless I spank her, but that's after the fact and I don't think she's
> actually learning from it.
>
> I've backed her up at 4 minutes old and I keep restoring and trying
> over and over again but I can't figure out how to teach her about
> the weeds. She just gobbles till I spank and then does it again when
> she thinks I'm not looking.
>
> Really I'm not that good at teaching about them anyway and if anyone
> has some suggestions about that I'd like to hear them. I get them to
> look at the weeds and I say no and weed alternately. I've also tried
> saying "no weed" or "no push weed" or "no push" or those same
> combinations with "no" after the other word instead of before it.
> All of these methods seem to sort of work sometimes but never
> that well and occasionally they have very little effect. I usually
> give a small spanking after they take a bite of the weed but I'm
> not sure that helps either.

Well, I notice that you didn't say you had been trying "weed no" when
they're looking at it. that seems to be the most effective, in my
experience. Also, I believe that spanking the after they eat it DOES
have an effect, but i could be wrong on this. I usually use the baobab
to teach them on, because it doesn't really do much, apart from give
them the sniffles for a bit. quite mild.

DarkElf813

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Oct 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/13/97
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>Possible suggestion-try the SST. Then you can listen to all the words
>whenever you want, and write them down.
>A dictionary entry:
>If anyone else calls the hand Me, the sound they make is Mah-tah.

So you have your norns saying push me...that sounds a little to welcoming
for a slap...


-Dark Elf

Randy Crane

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Oct 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/13/97
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If you get a Norn to say arg it sounds like "dado" It would be cool to
try and get Norns to sound like they are speaking english (you would need
to remember what each word means to type it)


Amanda Penney (fellow Nornoholic)
Nornoholics Anonymous
http://members.tripod.com/~dave13/index.html
<h1>Help Feed the Addiction!</h1>


DarkElf813

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Oct 13, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/13/97
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>Now here is a sound that they use for three different words:
>lift, Zed (a Norn's name), and yes = CHIN-pa

Your looking at it all wrong...not to sound discouraging but a norn
language is based on letter doubles. Like li ze ye ne and anything that has
a consinate and the e or i will sound like CHIN. So, try looking at 2
letters at a time.


-Dark Elf

Alyssa

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Oct 19, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/19/97
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Victoria Smith <victori...@dial.pipex.com> wrote in article
<01bcd4f7$163c6a40$LocalHost@cvnulame>...
> Yes kind of, it's the letters in the name of the word they say. I tried
> this out on some of my norns, making them call the hand jjjjjjjjjjjj and
it
> was like ..erm.. dededededededede or somrthing like that then I tried
> aaaaaaa and sure enough it was different but the start of a wav file for
> each letter. Like cacacacacacaca for example.
>
> Mmead42 <mme...@aol.com> wrote in article
> <19971003193...@ladder02.news.aol.com>...

A Norn of mine named Tiffany always said "wehGIGIcoh" before I exported her
and the rest of that batch. Someone look into that, please!

Alyssa

Mmead42

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Oct 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/21/97
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In article <01bcdd0c$02f52ea0$092e...@primenet.primenet.com>, "Alyssa"
<the...@primenet.com> writes:

> > Now, if someone else named a Norn Orphan, would they be YOdididi too?

I gave in to curiosity and hatched another Orphan. Sure enough, they
called themselves YOdididi!

Randy Crane

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Oct 21, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/21/97
to

run- jinzo
yes-jinpa
drink-masoba
food-dohwazo
no-no
arg-dado
mama-mama
norn-dowahbie
I think thats right. If it is that proves that I
play Creatures a little
too much....nah. Obbsessed? Not me!

"run newsgroup" "look e-mail" "push mouse" "push keyboard"
"Amanda sleep" ZZZZzzzZzzzzzzzZZZZZZzz


Amanda Penney (fellow Nornoholic)
Nornoholics Anonymous

http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Realm/9435/naa.h
tml Feed the Addiction!


Katie Owen

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Oct 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/22/97
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Here's what my norns are telling me.

Drink and mama are the only two that seem really different.

Amanda wrote:
>
> run- jinzo
zhin-doh
> yes-jinpa
chin-pa
> drink-masoba
Mak-lava
> food-dohwazo
do-rah-do
> no-no
I almost never hear them say no
> arg-dado
?
> mama-mama
Ma-ee-hah
> norn-dowahbie
Do-rah-bee

Does your grendel say "feel-good" sometimes? As part of a word?

Katie

Victoria Smith

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Oct 22, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/22/97
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> > Really I'm not that good at teaching about them anyway and if anyone

> Well, I notice that you didn't say you had been trying "weed no" when


> they're looking at it. that seems to be the most effective, in my
> experience. Also, I believe that spanking the after they eat it DOES
> have an effect, but i could be wrong on this. I usually use the baobab
> to teach them on, because it doesn't really do much, apart from give
> them the sniffles for a bit. quite mild.
>

This also helps them to build up an immunity towards worse illnesses, I'm
not telling people that Weeds are good for the norn to eat but it is a good
idea to take the norn to the baobab, wait 'til they eat it ,then spank them
once. Norns prefer plants and herbs to the weeds any-way so ussually
they'll let alone 'til their curiosity gets the better of them <:-)


--
______ / \ ____
/ - O O / - \
| - ^ / - |
\ - \______/ - /
\____\__/______/
\ \
\ \
| |
/ /

\ /I / __ /\ I\ I /_\
\/ I \ I \/ I/\ I / \

/ / ^ ^ \ \
/ / "O O" \ \
| / ^ \ \
| / \___/ \ _\


Katie Owen

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Oct 24, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/24/97
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DMChess wrote:
>
> Mine seem to say "no-ho" for "no". Has anyone tried
> messing around with the obvious WAV files to make
> their sounds different? (Would that I had the time!)
>
> DC

And mess up their cute little pronunciations?

"NO-HO!" :)

A humourous unrelated comment: I have a norn who really resembles real
life -- she eats when she's bored. "Dana bored" "get food" "push"

It really makes me think about the old nature vs nurture argument...

Katie

Mycophile

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Oct 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/25/97
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Katie Owen wrote:


anybody besides me think that when a norn says "computer" it sounds rather
distinctly like the correct pronunciation?

--
Mycophile: my...@zipcon.net
http://www.zipcon.net/~myco
ICQ UIN# 3412994

Mmead42

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Oct 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/25/97
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I've toyed with the idea of naming a Norn "Yes", but it seems almost cruel
to the poor thing.

Alyssa

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Oct 25, 1997, 3:00:00 AM10/25/97
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Mycophile <my...@NOSPAM.zipcon.net> wrote in article
<3451BBE6...@NOSPAM.zipcon.net>...

Seems like it to me, too! Only with different words.

toy = DOH-hee
bee = beh-hee(er something like that

But, with "toy", it almost sounds like they're pronouncing it correctly!


--
Alyssa
Norn breeder, .COB lover, book author, and homepage maintainer
Visit me at http://www.primenet.com/~thefews/
Or visit my Creatures page at http://www.primenet.com/~thefews/Mypage.htm

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