I'm so tired...

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Dillon Hosier

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Feb 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/9/99
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......of playing this Newsgroup game. I apologize for causing so much
trouble, although the arguments for and against the *many* topics discussed,
all have a bit of truth in them. The group is created, people have a
choice.. At the very least I have provided an alternative. But, seriously
this has gone on way way too long. Someone has to end it. My wish is that
the community simply be brought closer together, even if I am not a part of
it. The reasons I had kept up with the fight was that I had a vision of what
a new Creatures Community *could* be like. But, I don't have the time, nor
the energy to keep up such a thing. Truth is, I don't really dislike anyone
here. Although I do wish the maturity level of some could be raised a bit.
Maybe, that could be one of our goals. I studied and taught Leadership to
NJROTC cadets, maybe we could all do the same. Nuture the new users into
responsibility and genuine knowledge of the game, not some psychotic rage
filled whatever. I hope that suggestion, won't spark a new debate, if it
does, I apologize in advance, and I probably won't be taking part. But, I
digress.

Creatures is a very good game. I love programming COBs, playing with new
genomes, etc. when I have the time. But, I have wasted, and indeed we have
all wasted way too much time worrying and fighting over this stupid
agcm/nazi/communist/anti-dillon/whatever. So again, I apologize for causing
so so so much trouble, and wasting so much of everyone's time. Lets
concentrate on the positive stuff. We've got the CDN. And C3 is coming out
in no time. Then we get to start the race all over again. I just realized
that I could have used my diplomatic skills instead of my reactionary
instincts. It was a mistake. And...again....I apologize. It is my final hope
as we make this Exodus from Chaos, that this letter will not spark anymore
debate, I am just not up for it, and I doubt anyone else is either.

Thanks,
Dillon

RedWordSmith

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Feb 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/9/99
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Although it would be a mostly symbolic act at this point, rmgroup'ing AGCM
would be nice.

--
NN N RRRRR W W SSSSSS Nic (RedWord)Smith
N N N R R W W W S Executioner of Trolls
N N N RRRRR W W W SSSSSS DNRC Member
N N N R R WWWWW S -"You want a troll execution?
N NN R R WW WW SSSSSS What's in it for me?"

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mysteriousshee

Dillon Hosier

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Feb 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/9/99
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:Alize? Is that you, dove? You do realize I'll hold you to this. <g>
:
:<bookmarks post>
:
:Apology accepted. What made you change your mind?
:
As some may know I just started college (or university) last week. In my
composition class it happened I was reading "The Color of Water: A Black
Man's Tribute to His White Mother" by James McBride. I don't know, but the
theme has somehow changed me all around. I guess the biggest lesson I
learned this past week was "baby steps". Geezz, I brought out the worst in
people. When, even in my daily life, I always try to bring out the best in
people. But, it really bothered me that the biggest threads in the group
were all debates and conflict. Thats not who I am. And looking back, wow, it
was just too much. It was just way to much...

Dillon

Rigby

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Feb 9, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/9/99
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Dillon Hosier wrote in message
<79qkaf$1rlc$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>...
Geez..... just when I was thinking maybe I wouldn't come here anymore......
You never know what's around the next corner. What a good example you are,
Dillon

Rigby

"All the lonely people... where do they all come from?"
>

Jcarrcwalk

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Feb 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/10/99
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Who was the wise person that said, "The greatest sign of maturity is admitting
you displayed none" and "those courageous enough to admit their wrongs cannot
be faulted" That was very big of you, I'm quite impressed. Were I slightly more
unstable it might bring a tear to my eye. Hark, this person speaketh the truth.
Andrew Carroll
I support ERFNB (Equal Rights For NewBies)!!!

Bean 118

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Feb 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/10/99
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<snip>

>Thanks,
>Dillon
>

Alize? Is that you, dove? You do realize I'll hold you to this. <g>

<bookmarks post>

Apology accepted. What made you change your mind?


Bean, Goddess of Ettin, member of the pantheon, ect, ect..

"Good fortune is to Katherine as Nature is to Electric drill chuck keys"
-MadFish

Visit ALB-Labs!
http://members.aol.com/bean118/alblabs.html

Remove ma to reply

LdyMagic33

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Feb 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/10/99
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I don't really think much good will come. Not that I am mad at you(Never was).
I saw my friend post to the AGCM thread(NornLove) so I felt my turn to post to
the thread. I recently went to JRChat(I didn't say anything at all in it.) but
I saw what some said and it doesn't look good for you.

Wafuru

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Feb 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/10/99
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If you really mean this apology (And I'm not entirely convinced that you do,
since you've still found yourself unable to resist a snipe at our expense, ie
commenting on our maturity with as little as you've shown) I think you REALLY
owe Emy an apology. You stooped to great depths to belittle and demean her,
delving into her personal life when you had no right to do any such thing. What
you said about her was very petty, and 1) not your place to bring into the
discussion 2) taken out of context from what was actually said. Not only that,
you said these things as though they were the gospel truth, with nothing to back
them up short of your lurking in JRchat and taking notes... which I don't even
understand your reasons for this.

Not that I think any of this will matter to you, I am of the opinion that
that was the lowest, dirtiest thing you could have done.

--
Watashi no namae wa Wafuru desu.
http://fly.to/AIN!/
Or, if that should ever not work...
http://www.telesouth1.com/~ryouko/creatures/norn.html
igu...@annex.com
ICQ #9973930
---
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if it has Netscrape. :P
---
o/~ Like a wave we can not see, washing over you and me. o/~
o/~ Hiding here and hiding there, madness hiding everywhere. o/~
o/~ Such a curiousity, here it comes to set us free. o/~
o/~ Plenty left for you and me. Say hello INSANITY. o/~
- Oingo Boingo, "Insanity"
---
(This has been an updated test of the pointless .sigcasting system. Had this
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***

ton...@hotmail.com

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Feb 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/10/99
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I wish to state that any opinions I may express in my critique of Dillon's
apology are entirely my own and appear (within brackets) in the body of
Dillon's text. Any of my remarks which cause offence are probably meant to,
but should not be taken out of context. Much of what I say has already been
said better by others, but I am going to say it again anyway. If you think
enough has been said on this subject then Read No Further. Tone29

Dillon Said in header " I'm so tired " And continued in the body of the
document

......of playing this Newsgroup game. (And we were having such a good time) I
apologize for causing so much trouble, (which scores a 9.8 on the hypocrisy
scale) although the arguments for (remind me of the logical arguments in
favor of your ideas again.) and against (list of arguments to long to include
in this document) the *many* topics discussed, all have a bit of truth in
them. (Read "I still won't accept I am wrong") The group is created, (why not
cancel it? not many servers have picked it up yet. It's as easy as making
one.) people have a choice.. (A choice between an open, consensus based, self
regulating community or a top down totalitarian model) At the very least I
have provided an alternative. (For whom?) But, seriously this has gone on way
way too long. (Not a very long attention span?) Someone has to end it. (what
gives you that right?)

My wish is that the community simply be brought closer together,

(then why lie to and insult the existing community? and stealthfully create
the group? why not ask for nominees for moderators?) even if I am not a part


of it. The reasons I had kept up with the fight was that I had a vision of

what a new Creatures Community *could* be like. (How can someone who is by
his own admission not part of the community have a vision of a better
version?) But, I don't have the time, nor the energy to keep up such a thing.
(Then why in the name of *insert deity's name here* did you do it?
Moderating a newsgroup is a lot more effort than this little debate has been)
Truth is, I don't really dislike anyone here. (You gave a pretty good
impression of disliking many people in the group, or do you lie to and insult
all your "friends") Although I do wish the maturity level of some could be
raised a bit. (Does the phrase " because I say so " come to mind?) Maybe,


that could be one of our goals. I studied and taught Leadership to NJROTC

cadets, (you studied and taught dominance through intimidation and fear of
punishment in a male only hierarchical society? That might also explain why
you hate the "commies" so much. You shouldn't believe everything people with
a self-interest in perpetuating ideological and religious hatreds and
prejudice tell you.) maybe we could all do the same. Nurture the new users
into responsibility and genuine knowledge of the game, (I thought that was
what AGC did) not some psychotic rage filled whatever. (Who mentioned
psychosis?) I hope that suggestion, won't spark a new debate, if it does, I
apologize in advance, and I probably won't be taking part. (Still not
accepting responsibility for ones actions?) But, I digress. (So during your
"apology" you accuse others of being psychotic? Not a very conciliatory thing
to do is it? Heard of proofing a doc before you post it?) Creatures is
a very good game. (You see, no matter how far apart people's belief patterns
can be it is always possible to find some thing of common interest) I love


programming COBs, playing with new genomes, etc. when I have the time. But, I

have wasted, (you said it friend) and indeed we have all wasted way too much
time (How about letting people speak for themselves? a bit presumptuous
aren't we. Opps I forgot you studied "leadership" so telling others what to
think is what you were trained for.) worrying and fighting over this stupid


agcm/nazi/communist/anti-dillon/whatever. So again, I apologize for causing
so so so much trouble, and wasting so much of everyone's time. Lets

concentrate on the positive stuff. (Didn't some of the people you accused of
being uneducated suggest that at the very outset of this debate?) We've got
the CDN. (Yeah they can barr trolls ++good) And C3 is coming out in no time.
Then we get to start the race all over again. (What race would that be? where
does competition come into it?)

I just realized that I could have used my diplomatic skills (which
are? the essential skills needed for effective diplomacy are the ability's to
anticipate the consequences of ones actions and words, and to attempt to
resolve conflict through arbitration and mediation wherever possible. Think
before you leap) instead of my reactionary instincts. (An educated human
should be able to control its instincts, or at least be able to see when
those instincts will cause harm to others and redirect those instincts into
non destructive pathways) It was a mistake. (Yes it was IMO) And...again....I
apologize. It is my final hope as we make this Exodus from Chaos, (do I hear
the buzz of self contemplation? or just inane face-saving platitudes?) that
this letter will not spark anymore debate, (well why continue to insult in
this very document?) I am just not up for it, (my mother always told me don't
start something you can't finish) and I doubt anyone else is either. (More
speaking for other people, I've still got some energy left, can't speak for
others though)

Thanks,
Dillon
dho...@prodigy.net

(and continued in a further post) "Please, no more, the debate is over."
(More of the" because I say so" syndrome)

This closes critique version 1.0, I feel better now.

Tone29

long time lurker.

Agent for the Crimson Permanent Assurance Group of Companies

Rotating tagline of the day.........

"If there are two or more ways to do something and one of those results in a
catastrophe, then someone will do it that way" Captain Edward A. Murphy Jr.


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Harlander

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Feb 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/10/99
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Dillon Hosier wrote in message
<79qkaf$1rlc$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>...
>It was a mistake. And...again....I apologize. It is my final hope
>as we make this Exodus from Chaos, that this letter will not spark anymore
>debate, I am just not up for it, and I doubt anyone else is either.


Righty-oh. Apology accepted and all that. Now we can get this newsgroup back
to normal, or at least what passes for normality here.


Martha Brummett

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Feb 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/10/99
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On Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:36:11 -0800, "Dillon Hosier"
<dho...@prodigy.net> wrote:

<some stuff (::come here, Wolfram!::) snipped>

>the energy to keep up such a thing. Truth is, I don't really dislike anyone
>here.

Then you gave a very good imitation of it.

> Although I do wish the maturity level of some could be raised a bit.

Causing dissent is not a usual way to achieve this.

>Maybe, that could be one of our goals. I studied and taught Leadership to

>NJROTC cadets, maybe we could all do the same.

Okay, kid--get a Doozer. Play its .wav file backwards. What you hear
is the upraised voice of the people against tyranny. It worked then,
and it has worked in this small place--I won't accept your
totalitarian views and your attempt to enforce them upon others.

> Creatures is a very good game. I love programming COBs, playing with new
>genomes, etc. when I have the time. But, I have wasted, and indeed we have
>all wasted way too much time worrying and fighting over this stupid
>agcm/nazi/communist/anti-dillon/whatever.

Oh? You've certainly wasted time, but don't tell me I have. In my
opinion, time spent resisting fascism is never wasted.

> So again, I apologize for causing
>so so so much trouble, and wasting so much of everyone's time. Lets

>concentrate on the positive stuff. We've got the CDN. And C3 is coming out
>in no time. Then we get to start the race all over again. I just realized
>that I could have used my diplomatic skills instead of my reactionary
>instincts.

I hope your misguided reactionary views do not run so deep as
instinct--but, since you're so well-educated, I'll accept your
appraisal of yourself.

> It was a mistake. And...again....I apologize. It is my final hope
>as we make this Exodus from Chaos, that this letter will not spark anymore
>debate, I am just not up for it, and I doubt anyone else is either.

Tough. You can't erase your actions and their consequences.

Martha Brummett
Denver CO

xOtix

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Feb 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/10/99
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ton...@hotmail.com wrote in message
<79rof3$6so$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...

>I wish to state that any opinions I may express in my critique
of Dillon's
>apology are entirely my own and appear (within brackets) in the
body of
>Dillon's text. Any of my remarks which cause offence are
probably meant to,
>but should not be taken out of context. Much of what I say has
already been
>said better by others, but I am going to say it again anyway.
If you think
>enough has been said on this subject then Read No Further.
Tone29


I thank you for de-lurking and posting this. Your comments were
thoughtful, and I hope our chastened (?) Dillonalize will take
them to heart. Time will tell. Forgiveness, however, happens in
the heart's own time. I have personally been maligned by this
somewhat volatile person, along with others who have become very
dear to me, and it hurt.

One of my own maxims is "Beware when the crocodile smiles!"

If Dillonalize's apologies are sincere, then I believe some
restitution is in order.
1. A full apology to our Emy, with no foot-shuffling or
backhanding.
2. Send a "remove" message about the newsgroup that was created
for whatever misguided reasons, since, from before its
conception it has been a divisive element in our community.

I have a great respect for volatile people, as they usually add
wonderful colour to a community. And I _know_ that when people
suddenly become aware of what they are doing, they can just as
suddenly change --that's the glory of the human condition.

But I for one will need some time. Time to watch, time for
restitution to occur, time to forgive.

~ jann (xOtix)

Magic T. Dragon

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Feb 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/10/99
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<snip>

At least by me, all apologies are accepted. I've gotten sick of this
war, even if it is entertaining.

Good luck with college.

--Natasha V.


jimbo

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Feb 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/10/99
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Wafuru <igu...@annex.com> wrote

> If you really mean this apology (And I'm not entirely convinced that you do,
>since you've still found yourself unable to resist a snipe at our expense, ie
>commenting on our maturity with as little as you've shown) I think you REALLY
>owe Emy an apology. You stooped to great depths to belittle and demean her,
>delving into her personal life when you had no right to do any such thing. What
>you said about her was very petty, and 1) not your place to bring into the
>discussion 2) taken out of context from what was actually said. Not only that,
>you said these things as though they were the gospel truth, with nothing to back
>them up short of your lurking in JRchat and taking notes... which I don't even
>understand your reasons for this.
>
> Not that I think any of this will matter to you, I am of the opinion that
>that was the lowest, dirtiest thing you could have done.

i ain't forgiving no-one until emy's back safe and sound, with an apology from
dillon in her pocket. not forgiving no-one, y'hear? well said, waffy.
--
jimbo

official a.g.c. fingerpuppet ubermeister
fingerpuppets! fingerpuppets! get 'em while they're hot!

chirpy deck swabber of the jolly weeble

http://surf.to/jimbo123 - norns, grendels, ettins, hybrids, jayd's cobs plus bucketloads
of others, creature gallery, links, music and a PHOTO OF JIMBO! you want more?!?

if for some reason the above url works not, here is the full one:
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"hope is the one thing we will always have. hopefully." - me!

"WAR IS PEACE
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"JIMBO IS COOL." hehe.

you may have noticed that there are few capital letters in my posts. frankly, i can't be
arsed with them.

Harlander

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Feb 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/10/99
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jimbo <ji...@jammer.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
46izvkAp...@jammer.demon.co.uk...

>i ain't forgiving no-one until emy's back safe and sound, with an apology
from
>dillon in her pocket. not forgiving no-one, y'hear? well said, waffy.
This appears to be the final thread on the subject. If this becomes the
final post... well, it'll all be over bar the shouting and fallout.

Wafuru

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Feb 10, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/10/99
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Spitfire85 wrote:

> Why am I always *hearing* about this terrible arguement or that horrible flame
> war, but never see them? However, I am *always* seeing "we should stop this"
> posts that turn into arguements.
>
> I think that its all a bit pointless, unless you *want* to have arguements for
> some reason.
>
> Bottom line: This newsgroup is about C2, with cute fuzzy things! not warcraft
> or quake or any of those othr games that have players you would expect this
> from!
>
> (sorry for yelling)

Maybe you should look up the threads at DejaNews before "yelling" at us, since
you seem to have missed what went on. I think a lot if it was justified.

Spitfire85

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Feb 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/11/99
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Why am I always *hearing* about this terrible arguement or that horrible flame
war, but never see them? However, I am *always* seeing "we should stop this"
posts that turn into arguements.

I think that its all a bit pointless, unless you *want* to have arguements for
some reason.

Bottom line: This newsgroup is about C2, with cute fuzzy things! not warcraft
or quake or any of those othr games that have players you would expect this
from!

(sorry for yelling)

---
Another post by me, spitfire85 (No, I don't spit fire, I'm just a dragon nut)

the guy of knowledge in a.g.c (and I hafe eror fee spilling)

Someone stop me! someone stop me! er...what was I doing?

cursed by AOL

Bottom Line:
___________

mae...@nospam.demon.co.uk

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Feb 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/11/99
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On Tue, 9 Feb 1999 16:36:11 -0800, "Dillon Hosier"
<dho...@prodigy.net> wrote:

I've had a long think about this, and have to say that I
still have reservations about this situation. Basically,
actions speak louder than words. If you're really sorry,
and sincere in this apology, then there are still things
you could try to do to fix what you did here. Like
apologize to Emy. I don't think there was any excuse
for your attack on her. The fact that it made her feel
bad enough to leave the newsgroup means that what
you did here had a real and hurtful impact on someone
else. I feel that your words below don't reflect an
understanding of that situation, as when you write that:

>......of playing this Newsgroup game.

^^^^^

I don't think this was a "game" for Emy. She was really
upset by what you did. You gave her lots of stress here,
to the extent that she felt the need to take time off the
newsgroup. This may have been some kind of "game"
to you, but it wasn't a game to her. I don't think this was
a game to the various other people here who you
managed to annoy, upset and hurt either.

I don't know if an apology would be enough to make Emy
feel better. Only Emy could say that. But if you really are
sorry, the very least you can do is to try and make her
understand that you are sorry for hurting her, and that you
won't do that again. All I can add to that is that folks will be
watching you closely here. You can't act the way you did,
and expect people to forget what you've done just because
you say you're "sorry". Maybe over time you'll be able to
show some of us that you really are sorry. But that's going to
take some work, just as it took some work to hurt people
here. If you expect to be able to say "sorry", and have
people believe you outright, then you are expecting
too much, IMO. I think folks here have learned from this
situation, and part of what they've learned is to be careful
around you. I, for one, remember another apology you
made to me here months ago, about your attempts to
flame me. I find it interesting that that apology was
apparently only "good" for the amount of time that it took
you to cause this disruption here. That alone makes me
dubious of your present apology, though others without the
same experience with you might feel differently. I will be
watching to see just how long this apology lasts. And I
can assure you that if you try to be this disruptive again
(attacking people, going behind the backs of people here
in creating NGs, etc), then I, for one, will remember just
how much this apology of yours is really worth, and I
won't be shy in reminding others of that fact as well. If
you were in doubt that your actions here have
longterm consequences, then perhaps thinking about
that may help you see that that is NOT the case. You
might want to ask yourself, for instance, how Emy feels
about herself and this NG, after what you did to her
here, and if even an apology will make her feel better
about either when she thinks back on this incident.

>The group is created, people have a

>choice.. At the very least I have provided an alternative.

The way you went about doing that was all wrong. I
don't think you can wipe that out by saying that "at
least [you] have provided an alternative". Fact is
that your "alternative" wasn't needed, or wanted by
the majority of people here. In fact, most people here
were against the idea for a variety of reasons which
they've expressed clearly. You didn't give anyone
else a choice in the matter; you took it upon yourself
to choose for everyone here that there'd be a new
NG. To me, glossing over that by saying that you've
"provided an alternative" says that you haven't taken
in all those other points of view. The ends does not
justify the means. Your glossing over things like that is
one of the reasons I have reservations about your
apology. Again, here is another area where you can
put actions to your words. You could, for instance, issue
an RM message for the new group.

>The reasons I had kept up with the fight was that I had a vision of what
>a new Creatures Community *could* be like.

But that's not up to you. That's up to everyone in the
community. No one person can make that decision
for everyone else here. I think you erred by trying to
do that, and by assuming that you had the right to do
that.

>Truth is, I don't really dislike anyone here.

Then what was that stuff about Emy? Sorry, but here
again, actions speak louder than words.

>Although I do wish the maturity level of some could be raised a bit.

That too, makes me wonder how sincere you are here.
Having to get one last dig in, doesn't strike me as the
actions of someone who's really sorry.

>Nuture the new users into
>responsibility and genuine knowledge of the game, not some psychotic rage
>filled whatever.

IMO that's what the majority of posters were doing here
until you came along and started attacking people, etc.
Lis said it right when she asked how many newbies
you'd helped out here. Simply, many of the people
here have been doing that steadily for months and
even years now. You were talking about leadership.
Well, think about this POV: A leader leads by example
and by reason. Leadership in a community isn't
something that you can just "have", or that you can give
yourself. It's a trust that people place in you. The people
who I consider to be "leaders" here (my personal opinion
only), are the people who work and laugh and share
themselves with others here. They don't seek to control
anyone else, but to share themselves. Your military version
of leadership may depend on a top-down hierarchy, but as
folks here keep trying to tell you, that isn't what happens
with alt. Everyone's equal here.

>But, I have wasted, and indeed we have

^^^


>all wasted way too much time worrying and fighting over this stupid
>agcm/nazi/communist/anti-dillon/whatever.

Speak for yourself. The fact that you feel like you've
got the right to express what others may feel on this
here, is another reason why I question what you've
written.

This is more than just "wasted time" to a lot of
people here. Like I said before, people got hurt
by you while you were "wasting time" on this.
And, the whole business of creating a new
newsgroup against the wishes of most people
here isn't something to be taken so lightly. Time
spent trying to support Emy, or trying to show
just why your actions in creating the NG were
doubtful to many here, isn't "wasted time". That's
time spent standing up for friends, and for what
many people here felt strongly.

Your actions had an impact on people here. Your
choice of words "game", "wasting time", don't
reflect the amount of anger, hurt and worry you
caused some people here. Basically, what you
did had _consequences_. It wasn't a "game".
It wasn't "wasting time".

>It is my final hope
>as we make this Exodus from Chaos, that this letter will not spark anymore

^^^


>debate, I am just not up for it, and I doubt anyone else is either.

That "we" again. Just because you declare something
to be the case for yourself, doesn't make it so for others.
What about the chaos Emy may be feeling now? Or
the chaos of newbies who show up on the moderated
group, and find porn?

Simply: you've got to face up to what you've done
if you're really sorry, and act in accordance with that
understanding, and that feeling of being sorry. You
can't just come in here, attack people, create a
whole new NG against the wishes of people here,
and then pretend like it never happened, or that
you didn't affect anyone else. I'm going to wait and
see on this one. I think most other people will too.
IMO you can't expect more than that from anyone
here. Forgiveness is all nice and good, but like
respect, or understanding, or so many other
important things between people, it's something you
have to earn, though your actions. Forgetting, IMO,
would be asking us not to use our brains to learn
from this.


Mae Tang
(replace "nospam" with "nu-it" for a valid e-mail address)

mae...@nospam.demon.co.uk

unread,
Feb 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/11/99
to
On Wed, 10 Feb 1999 10:53:25 GMT, ton...@hotmail.com wrote:

>I wish to state that any opinions I may express in my critique of Dillon's
>apology are entirely my own and appear (within brackets) in the body of
>Dillon's text. Any of my remarks which cause offence are probably meant to,
>but should not be taken out of context. Much of what I say has already been
>said better by others, but I am going to say it again anyway. If you think
>enough has been said on this subject then Read No Further. Tone29

[snip insightful analysis]

I think you've hit the nail on the head with a lot of what
you've said here. As with everything else, each person
is going to make their mind up on this independently,
so I don't think that you should feel like you have to
explain having an opinion either. ;^) Thanks for sharing
that. I think there are points you've raised there, which do
bear further thought in relation to what he said.

Lis Morris

unread,
Feb 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/11/99
to

Spitfire85 wrote in message <19990210223213...@ng136.aol.com>...

>Why am I always *hearing* about this terrible arguement or that horrible
flame
>war, but never see them? However, I am *always* seeing "we should stop
this"
>posts that turn into arguements.
>
>I think that its all a bit pointless, unless you *want* to have arguements
for
>some reason.
>
>Bottom line: This newsgroup is about C2, with cute fuzzy things! not
warcraft
>or quake or any of those othr games that have players you would expect this
>from!
>

maybe that's why we have these arguments- after all, looking after cute
fluffy little critters does nothing to remove any excess violent feelings..
so we all bring it to the newsgroup instead :-).

xOtix

unread,
Feb 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/11/99
to

Lis Morris wrote in message
<918760877.3471.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...

::blank look:: Arguments?? <eg>

~ jann

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