PROPOSAL: alt.games.creatures.moderated

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Alize

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
to
Hey I just want everyone to have a good time. What do ya think? This would
be a great place for new users (not newbies) to go and share information
with out some extremely rude person shoving a FAQ down their throat.

*****************************************
CHARTER
alt.games.creatures.moderated
*****************************************

CHARTER: This group will provide a moderated forum for the discussion of the
sequel to the Artificial Life game Creatures and Creatures 2, by Cyberlife.
The existing group alt.games.creatures has become very full (i.e. over 500
posts a day) and unorganized (i.e. posts are a bit confusing due to the
existence of two Creatures games) since the sequel's release. Splitting the
group will undoubtedly help put an end to the "chaos" of trying to figure
out which game each person is talking about.

MODERATION POLICY:
Purpose: Light moderation of the newsgroup. Due to the nature of the game,
it has attracted a very diverse age group. Needless to say *many*
"flamewars" have broken out because of small misunderstandings. These
"flamewars" are extremely unproductive, we talk often about programming the
game and Artificial Life Reasearch, we don't want to have to wade through
threads of various flames.

1. Spam posts are not admitted
2. Off-topic posts are permitted as long as they are respectful to the
public.

MODERATORS:
Dillon Hosier (dho...@prodigy.net)
Risela Tranchi (syra...@aol.com)
Michael McFadden (ALPr...@aol.com)
Marina Krige (omega2...@yahoo.com)

GUIDELINES (per ISP or LAN Abuse Desk Request):
To be posted weekly so that all users are aware of them.

1. Moderation is very light, but please be respectful to all individuals.

2. Please do not post questions or requests in more than one thread.

3. Keep Off Topic posts to a minimum. They are accepted and are understood
as creating a sense of community, however this is a Creatures 2 newsgroup
lets try to stay on topic.

4. If you want to post an acceptable off topic post please label it, (OT),
off topic, for other reader's benefit.

5. Do not post with rudeness or brashness. No flame posts will be tolerated.
And all flame posts will be removed. If you have a problem with someone
resolve it in e-mail, *not* in this forum.

__________
end proposal/charter


Nornina

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
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>Hey I just want everyone to have a good time. What do ya think? This would
>be a great place for new users (not newbies) to go and share information
>with out some extremely rude person shoving a FAQ down their throat.

No. No way. Forget it. It's not a good idea and the people here have already
said so. The FAQs are just to tell the newbies a few things,and *I* think
they're very helpful. The people who post the FAQs just want to help,and are
not being rude. I happen to like it here,and it would get boring if all the
newbies were sent to another NG. (I'm trying to get a norn to eat,sorry if this
seems short or anything).
Cati of th' Wolfpack
Nornina's norns: http://www.geocities.com/EnchantedForest/Tower/5642/
"Callan flabber!" My grendel Callan.
"Grunchy thleep" My grendel Grunchy
I am Drunk of Borg. Resistance is floor tile.
My keyboard';\s broken. Sorry gfor typos.

Martha Brummett

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
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On Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:39:38 -0800, "Alize" <dho...@prodigy.net>
wrote:

>Hey I just want everyone to have a good time. What do ya think? This would
>be a great place for new users (not newbies) to go and share information
>with out some extremely rude person shoving a FAQ down their throat.

There have already been over fifty messages protesting such a group on
alt.config. I refer you back to them.


Martha Brummett (C2 species range 39001-39100)
Piratical Maid-of-All-Work, P.B. Jolly Weeble
mailto:mo...@diac.com
Bonadrey Nornery
http://www.diac.com/~mokus/bonadrey.html

Denise L. Voskuil

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
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On Sat, 06 Feb 1999 18:46:53 GMT, mo...@diac.com (Martha Brummett)
wrote:

>On Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:39:38 -0800, "Alize" <dho...@prodigy.net>
>wrote:
>>Hey I just want everyone to have a good time. What do ya think? This would
>>be a great place for new users (not newbies) to go and share information
>>with out some extremely rude person shoving a FAQ down their throat.

>There have already been over fifty messages protesting such a group on
>alt.config. I refer you back to them.

And I hasten to add that removing the "2" from the group's name
doesn't change the main reasons why it would not be welcome by most.
You can refer back to those messages for evidence of this.

- Denise

--
Denise L. Voskuil-Marre' - grend...@hotmail.com
The Truth About Grendels! - <http://welcome.to/grendels/>
*New* C2 COBs: Coconut Vendor, Extra Toy Car, Extra Carrot Seed Dispenser!
Website Graphics FAQ, and C2 FAQs on Eating/Sleeping, the Color Machine,
and the Volcano; C1/C2 FAQ on Wolfling/Feral Runs; A.G.C Newbie FAQ, the
Edibles of Albia guide to foods for C2 (with pictures), and more!
Dibs on C2 COB species numbers 42400-42499! :)

Emily Sachs

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
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Alize wrote:
>
<snip>

Can you not take a hint? I don't want you. I don't want your newsgroup. I
think you are a pathetic little whining brat. And I think I represent the
majority of the newsgroup when I say this.

--
Just a thought from: Emily Sachs | "When you come to the edge of all that
-> http://members.xoom.com/Emy/ | you know, you must believe one of
-> ICQ: 8980276 | two things; there will be earth
-> AIM: Emy Elis | upon which to stand, or you will be
-> I need to change my sig more. | given wings to fly."
-----------------------------------------------------
"Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy."
~Charlie McCarthy

Denise L. Voskuil

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
to
On Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:39:38 -0800, "Alize" <dho...@prodigy.net>
wrote:
>Hey I just want everyone to have a good time. What do ya think? This would
>be a great place for new users (not newbies) to go and share information
>with out some extremely rude person shoving a FAQ down their throat.

Stunning. Just when I thought I'd seen a 'rare bird' today with
someone complaining about FAQ posting (when a killfile would do nicely
instead of insisting that no one post a FAQ again), I see another.
Maybe I'll go play the lottery now, since the odds have been so
strange today...

>CHARTER: This group will provide a moderated forum for the discussion of the
>sequel to the Artificial Life game Creatures and Creatures 2, by Cyberlife.

This makes no sense. The sequel to Creatures and Creatures 2 would be
Creatures 3, yet the newsgroup name would not reflect that. Why
discuss Creatures 3? Something tells me you just copied the charter
from your proposed a.g.c2.mod without editing it.

>The existing group alt.games.creatures has become very full (i.e. over 500
>posts a day)

Hardly.

>and unorganized (i.e. posts are a bit confusing due to the
>existence of two Creatures games) since the sequel's release. Splitting the
>group will undoubtedly help put an end to the "chaos" of trying to figure
>out which game each person is talking about.

How, pray tell, would creating an a.g.c.mod group reduce chaos over
whether C1 or C2 is meant? The newsgroup name would seem to indicate
that both are allowed.

>MODERATION POLICY:
>Purpose: Light moderation of the newsgroup. Due to the nature of the game,
>it has attracted a very diverse age group. Needless to say *many*
>"flamewars" have broken out because of small misunderstandings. These
>"flamewars" are extremely unproductive, we talk often about programming the
>game and Artificial Life Reasearch, we don't want to have to wade through
>threads of various flames.
>
>1. Spam posts are not admitted
>2. Off-topic posts are permitted as long as they are respectful to the
>public.

Evidently FAQs aren't permitted either, from your introductory
paragraph. This would hardly reduce traffic.

RedWordSmith

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
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We have Moderated & Restricted forums in the Creatures Community like crazy.
Here are a few of them:

Mysterious Shee Yahoo Club:
http://club.yahoo.com/clubs/mysteriousshee

Other Yahoo Clubs:
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/welovec1
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/antierfn
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/bladernornzcreaturesplace
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/creatures2099
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/creaturesplayershangout
http://clubs.yahoo.com/Games/Computer___Video_Games/Genres/Simulation/Life/Creatures/index.html

Chats:
JRChat:
http://nic.dreamhost.com/lib/shee/tonicjrchat.html (Copy of, on my site)

Mailing Lists (Unverified):
http://www.onelist.com/viewarchive.cgi?listname=creatures
http://www.onelist.com/viewarchive.cgi?listname=CreaturesChat
http://www.onelist.com/viewarchive.cgi?listname=Norniac
[also, one by Kinnison- can't remember the URL]

Newsgroups:
cdn.* hierarchy (5 groups I believe...)

Message Boards:
Too many to count....

Set up a message board or a listserver...

Alize wrote:
>
> Hey I just want everyone to have a good time. What do ya think? This would
> be a great place for new users (not newbies) to go and share information
> with out some extremely rude person shoving a FAQ down their throat.

[cut]

Gads... people who don't read FAQ's at all are just as, if not more so,
annoying.

--
NN N RRRRR W W SSSSSS Nic (RedWord)Smith
N N N R R W W W S Executioner of Trolls
N N N RRRRR W W W SSSSSS DNRC Member
N N N R R WWWWW S -"You want a troll execution?
N NN R R WW WW SSSSSS What's in it for me?"

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mysteriousshee

Denise L. Voskuil

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
to
On Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:39:38 -0800, "Alize" <dho...@prodigy.net>
wrote:
>Hey I just want everyone to have a good time. What do ya think? This would
>be a great place for new users (not newbies) to go and share information
>with out some extremely rude person shoving a FAQ down their throat.

Hey, a quick check of DejaNews brings up a question - why are you
bothering to bring up a discussion of this when you posted _two_
control messages on Fri., Feb. 5 to create this newsgroup? You also
lied in them, claiming:
"Comments:
Discussed in alt.config, some complaints, more discussion, all cleared
up, no replies."

Yeah, right. No complaints were cleared up, and _you_ were the one to
stop replying. This was also not the group proposed; you proposed
alt.games.creatures2.moderated, but sent control messages for
alt.games.creatures.moderated.

For those interested, here are the links to the control messages via
DejaNews:
<http://x16.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=440907516>
<http://x16.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=440907517>

I'd bet most people didn't know that control messages will show up on
DejaNews if not in the newsgroup. :)

>3. Keep Off Topic posts to a minimum. They are accepted and are understood
>as creating a sense of community, however this is a Creatures 2 newsgroup
>lets try to stay on topic.
>
>4. If you want to post an acceptable off topic post please label it, (OT),
>off topic, for other reader's benefit.
>
>5. Do not post with rudeness or brashness. No flame posts will be tolerated.
>And all flame posts will be removed. If you have a problem with someone
>resolve it in e-mail, *not* in this forum.

Hey, speaking of DejaNews, off-topicness, rudeness, etc. - that author
profile feature in DejaNews is pretty neat. So, would a post from
someone about Hitler being in heaven be acceptable as long as they
weren't really rude about it? For the shocked and confused, I refer
you to his troll of alt.religion.angels on 10/8/97:
<http://x16.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=278874385>
and his single response in the long thread on 10/19/97:
<http://x16.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=282080948>

Now mind you, it's labeled "Don Hosier", but Alize'/Dillon has posted
here as "Don Hosier" before on 11/17/97 (less than a month after
posting the previous posts):
<http://x16.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=288526750> - but he signed his
name as "Dylan" there
And as recently as last month:
<http://x16.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=432795800>

Considering that most of dho...@prodigy.net's posts to Usenet have
been signed Alize'/Dillon/Dylan, I find it _really_ unlikely that this
was his brother or something who made the Hitler posts, and then never
posted to Usenet again under that address. If it was my brother who'd
done that, I certainly would've canceled the account and gotten a new
one to avoid the hate mail that surely would've come in.

Why'd I post this last bit of info? Because in case it isn't more
than obvious to anyone who's been following the discussion here and on
alt.config (where your response to Miff's question of why we need
another moderated newsgroup was "Because I say so."
<http://x16.dejanews.com/getdoc.xp?AN=439463119>) that you're a liar,
it should be now. You tried to squirm your way out of that Nazi thing
on alt.config, and this should more than answer that question - you
were evidently purposely being hurtful. You also went ahead and
posted the control messages for this newsgroup before ever coming to
discuss it on a.g.c. It seems obvious that you don't care what other
people think; you're going to make your own little newsgroup over
anyone's objections, even if everyone on a.g.c were to say no.

Lis Morris

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
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Which part of 'no' don't you understand? We all said no on the
alt.config.... as for your remark about faqs, I always found faqs useful as
a newbie- I prefer them to waiting to get a response from someone! People
put a lot of work into FAQs for newbies for this very reason! They save time
and work all round.
We still don't want your idea- sorry. If you do make a moderated group, I
for one won't visit it- or will only visit it to cause trouble. I suspect
none of my posts would get past the moderating <g>
--
Lis Morris,
A.G.C. Goddess of Shee,
Evil Potato Grower,
Destroyer of Keyboards
http://www.shee.demon.co.uk

TraxDJ

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
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>From: "Alize" <dho...@prodigy.net>

>Hey I just want everyone to have a good time. What do ya think? This would
>be a great place for new users (not newbies) to go and share information

I think the Doosers said it best: "Hell No! We won't go!"

>with out some extremely rude person shoving a FAQ down their throat.
>


Oh, and I happen to like the FAQS. I don't see how anyone could be, as you put
it, "shoving a FAQ down their throat.". Nobody forces you to read them. They
are very helpful. And the people are not rude.


>MODERATORS:


>Risela Tranchi (syra...@aol.com)
>Michael McFadden (ALPr...@aol.com)
>Marina Krige (omega2...@yahoo.com)

I can't say I have ever seen any of these people posting here. I would not want
to be 'moderated' by people I've never even seen in the Creatures Community
_and_ has never helped anyone on this newsgroup. Bad idea guys


~~~~~
TraxDJ
~~~~~
ICQ: 25330792


RedWordSmith

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
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TraxDJ wrote:
>
> >From: "Alize" <dho...@prodigy.net>
>
> >Hey I just want everyone to have a good time. What do ya think? This would
> >be a great place for new users (not newbies) to go and share information
>
> I think the Doosers said it best: "Hell No! We won't go!"
>
[cut]

Don't they say "Og tnow Ew On Lleh?" Very fast? <g>

LdyMagic33

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
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I really don't care...but the people that have been here a bit longer will be
grumpy about it. The original people especially. But most people. Maybe you
should just make a forum for your web-site like Celeste did.(Not like JR chat)

Nornlove

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
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yes, great idea. And without people being called morons and getting harassed
and all that.

Mannkind

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
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>
>yes, great idea. And without people being called morons and getting harassed
>and all that.
>

Well it seems you are a moron if you think this would be good.... I wish
everyone to read the bottom of my sig(not the web addy)
My only wish is that stupid people be kicked off the web. So
Norn...@loser.aol.com omnilight and a bunch of others really don't even
deserve to be on the net....

~ The Even More Deranged Mannkind
~ If all else fails.... screw it....
My greatest wish is that they wouldn't let stupid people on the net.
CAOS Scripts 60,000 --> 60,200

DeGeneration-N http://www.albia2000.force9.co.uk/dnorn/


LdyMagic33

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
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Maybe these people don't want this new group is because they want to control
the creatures news group and they know if there is a group that wants no bad
things said in it they won't be able to complain to people who ask newbie
question. They also don't like it because they like putting down FAQs that are
way too long for some people to read. I support this idea. But most people
won't.

Nornlove

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
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>
>>
>>yes, great idea. And without people being called morons and getting
>harassed
>>and all that.
>>
>
>Well it seems you are a moron if you think this would be good.... I wish
>everyone to read the bottom of my sig(not the web addy)
>My only wish is that stupid people be kicked off the web. So
>Norn...@loser.aol.com omnilight and a bunch of others really don't even
>deserve to be on the net....

hey, I don't like OTHER people getting called morons. That's how I ended up
getting called one. last time i checked, my e-mail was Norn...@aol.com so I
guess you don't mean me.

Mannkind

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
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>Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: alt.games.creatures.moderated
>From: ldyma...@aol.com (LdyMagic33)
>Date: 2/6/99 2:09 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <19990206170918...@ng-fv1.aol.com>

>
>Maybe these people don't want this new group is because they want to control
>the creatures news group and they know if there is a group that wants no bad
>things said in it they won't be able to complain to people who ask newbie
>question.

Um, nobody but the real stupid people complain about the newbie questions.

>They also don't like it because they like putting down FAQs that are
>way too long for some people to read.

Man, it takes a 1/2 a brain cell to relize that you don't have to read them...

Mannkind

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
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>hey, I don't like OTHER people getting called morons. That's how I ended up
>getting called one. last time i checked, my e-mail was Norn...@aol.com so I
>guess you don't mean me.
>
<waterboy>
Mama said always tell the truth... so thats what I'm doing...
</waterboy>

RedWordSmith

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
to
LdyMagic33 wrote:
>
> Maybe these people don't want this new group is because they want to control
> the creatures news group and they know if there is a group that wants no bad
> things said in it they won't be able to complain to people who ask newbie
> question. They also don't like it because they like putting down FAQs that are
> way too long for some people to read. I support this idea. But most people
> won't.

If you hate the current FAQ's, why not make your own? Under my
understanding, anyone can make and upload a FAQ for an alt.* group...
Otherwise, don't complain. It just isn't constructive... or do you think that
you would be unable to correctly document the pinnacle of our vast community?

--
NN N RRRRR W W SSSSSS Nic (RedWord)Smith
N N N R R W W W S Executioner of Trolls
N N N RRRRR W W W SSSSSS DNRC Member
N N N R R WWWWW S -"You want a troll execution?
N NN R R WW WW SSSSSS What's in it for me?"

Coming Soon: Troll FAQ
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mysteriousshee

LdyMagic33

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
to
And I guess your mama also told you that If you can't say anything nice...If
she didn't you must have been real bad...

<<Mama said always tell the truth... so thats what I'm doing...>>

Denise L. Voskuil

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
to
On 6 Feb 1999 22:09:18 GMT, ldyma...@aol.com (LdyMagic33) wrote:
>They also don't like it because they like putting down FAQs that are
>way too long for some people to read.

Long FAQs contain more info, usually. Would you rather see one long
FAQ or 20 short ones on the same subject?

LdyMagic33

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
to
I said faqs are way too long. No newbie will want to read it. It is just
waytoo long, plain and simple. I know a lot of people just don't have the
time.

RedWordSmith said in a messag:
::snip::

RedWordSmith

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
to

You would propose what as an alternative? Someone must really be short on
time if they can't even browse through a FAQ... a recent poll shows that many
of people here do read the FAQ's *on a regular basis*.

--
NN N RRRRR W W SSSSSS Nic (RedWord)Smith
N N N R R W W W S Executioner of Trolls
N N N RRRRR W W W SSSSSS DNRC Member
N N N R R WWWWW S -"You want a troll execution?
N NN R R WW WW SSSSSS What's in it for me?"

http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/mysteriousshee

TraxDJ

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
to
>From: RedWordSmith

>TraxDJ wrote:
>>
>> >From: "Alize" <dho...@prodigy.net>
>>
>> >Hey I just want everyone to have a good time. What do ya think? This would
>> >be a great place for new users (not newbies) to go and share information
>>
>> I think the Doosers said it best: "Hell No! We won't go!"
>>
>[cut]
>
>Don't they say "Og tnow Ew On Lleh?" Very fast? <g>
>
>--


Ok! OK!
::starts chanting:::
"Og tnow. Ew on lleh!"
"Og tnow. Ew on lleh!"

NORNGod

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
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Mannkind wrote:
>
> >
> >yes, great idea. And without people being called morons and getting harassed
> >and all that.
> >
>
> Well it seems you are a moron if you think this would be good.... I wish
> everyone to read the bottom of my sig(not the web addy)
> My only wish is that stupid people be kicked off the web. So
> Norn...@loser.aol.com omnilight and a bunch of others really don't even
> deserve to be on the net....

Go MK! That's what I've been sayin' all along..
--
~NORNGod \ Visit NORNGod's NORNMania!
\ http://www.kpweb.com/chosted/norngod/
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ\
\ Soon to be on it's own server at:
\ http://www.norngod.com
Please get \
it right... \ Home of the largest C2 map on the web! Nice
\ selection of C2 colored norns, and lots more!
_________________\
\ There is also my personal page on crappy
The correct \ Xoom: http://members.xoom.com/dstyring/
spelling is \________________________________________
NORNGod.. not NORNgod, norngod, NORNGOD, NornGod, nornGod
nornGOD, NornGOD, or anything else that isn't *NORNGod*.
Just NG also works... |ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ|I can be reached either by email:
Hopefully coming |
soon from yours |nor...@fast.net
truly (!): |
My own female Ettin |
sprites! |
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
There is NO typo in Netscrape... <G>

NORNGod

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
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Mannkind wrote:
>
> >And I guess your mama also told you that If you can't say anything nice...If
> >she didn't you must have been real bad...
>
> Neither did your so-called-fake mother.... I cannot wait until I get off
> AOHell....


I pitty you having to use the same network as those two, MK.

Wafuru

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Feb 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/6/99
to

Nornlove wrote:

> >really don't even
> >> deserve to be on the net...
>

> Why don't we deserve to be on the net? because were not written into your
> little plans? Because we don't like being called morons? Because we're not
> as unintelligent as you guys?

Because you look for ways to cause trouble and seldom think about any of your
actions or their consequences before doing them. You... I don't even know what
your problem is. Every time you open your mouth, you're supporting someone who's
been violently nasty to people or people who have been making a general nuisance
of themselves. The last time I saw from you, you were flaming me in email for
telling LightOmni to take his/her/its hateful spite elsewhere.

--
Watashi no namae wa Wafuru desu.
http://fly.to/AIN!/
Or, if that should ever not work...
http://www.telesouth1.com/~ryouko/creatures/norn.html
igu...@annex.com
ICQ #9973930
---
Chief Crashmaster, able to crash any given computer in 3.5 seconds flat. Faster
if it has Netscrape. :P
---
o/~ Like a wave we can not see, washing over you and me. o/~
o/~ Hiding here and hiding there, madness hiding everywhere. o/~
o/~ Such a curiousity, here it comes to set us free. o/~
o/~ Plenty left for you and me. Say hello INSANITY. o/~
- Oingo Boingo, "Insanity"
---
(This has been an updated test of the pointless .sigcasting system. Had this
been a real .sig, there may have been something useful in it.)
***

Mannkind

unread,
Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
>And I guess your mama also told you that If you can't say anything nice...If
>she didn't you must have been real bad...

Neither did your so-called-fake mother.... I cannot wait until I get off
AOHell....

~ The Even More Deranged Mannkind

Miff

unread,
Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
Due to BTNet I didn't get the original thread...in fact, I onyl got this one
message of Mannkind!
Sorry if this has been covered in toher posts..

Anyhow, here are my thoughts:

FACT: Alize is a known trouble maker on JR Chat
FACT: We have 5 groups moderated and specific, flawing all his arguments and
a sister group for files.
FACT: None of alizes ops were known by any of us.
FACT: He at first went behind our backs to do this.
FACT: This has been a general group for the community and has served its
needs well and will continue to do for some time- we survive fine.
FACT: 99% of us are against this.
FACT: It was brought up before and dismissed.

FACT: He has yet to provide us with one needed reason for the group.


Mannkind wrote in message <19990206194918...@ng01.aol.com>...

Miff

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Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
So Alize, I challenge you again to give me one good reason for agcm...

Miff
Miff wrote in message <79iq36$1t0$1...@plutonium.btinternet.com>...

DreMoa

unread,
Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
LdyMagic33 wrote:
>
> I said faqs are way too long. No newbie will want to read it. It is just
> waytoo long, plain and simple. I know a lot of people just don't have the
> time.
>
> RedWordSmith said in a messag:
> ::snip::
Pardon? The FAQs are to long?
Most of them aren't longer than 1 or to pages? How should somebody
sumarize even shorter without cutting to much information?
Prefer a Volcano FAQ like that:
1. It's called the volcano. 2. Its hot and radioactive. 3. Grendels can
be found there. ?
Actually all these FAQs saved me lots of time I would have spend
browsing web pages or asking stupid questions (and waiting for the
answers!) for those informations..

BTW, what would a newsgroup especially for newbies be without FAQs? I'm
somewhat sure an old institution like the usenet didn't develop such
mechanism randomly.

Nornlove

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Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to

AntiNorn

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Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
On Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:39:38 -0800, "Alize" <dho...@prodigy.net>
wrote:

*snip a bunch of garbage*

>__________
>end proposal/charter
>
>

Your "proposal" is a joke. You went behind everyone's backs and
already have created the group, despite the long thread in alt.config
against this idea.

The group has existed on my news server for at least 3 days now, and
you're already proven the competence of your "moderator"'s skills by
allowing a porn-link post to reside there this whole time.

Your "moderators" have also neglected to even answer any of the
questions asked in your little "I'm in control now" newsgroup.

I'm not entirely certain what you were trying to accomplish, but
creating a moderated group is not something that people should do on a
whim, or just to try and stir up trouble in an already existing group.


The current state of your already-created "moderated" group proves
that you, and the people you selected, have absolutely no idea what
you're doing.


Tortured Norns: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/2495/

mae...@nospam.demon.co.uk

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Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
On 6 Feb 1999 22:09:18 GMT, ldyma...@aol.com (LdyMagic33) wrote:

>Maybe these people don't want this new group is because they want to control
>the creatures news group

Impossible on a non-moderated newsgroup on alt:
ie: a.g.c.. Control is exactly what you'd get with this
proposed group. In case you missed the whole
debate on alt.config, you should probably look it
up. IMO the people proposing this new NG are just
interested in creating an environment where anyone
who disagrees with them or their ideas will not even
see the time of day.

On a.g.c., on the other hand, we can't stop anyone
posting here. Most people here are pretty mature and
know how to moderate themselves (eg: not swearing
in front of 7 year old kids, not trolling, SPAMming, etc).
In the 5 years I've been reading Usenet daily, this is
one of the most friendly groups I've ever seen.

>and they know if there is a group that wants no bad
>things said in it

So far, these proposed moderators have called the
majority of people who responded to them on alt.config
"uneducated" for the simple reason that they disagreed
with the proposal. They've insulted a whole bunch of
folks there, and that's just in making their proposal. Yet
you somehow think this will be a group in which "no bad
things" are said? I fear you are mistaken there.

>they won't be able to complain to people who ask newbie
>question. They also don't like it because they like putting down FAQs that are
>way too long for some people to read. I support this idea. But most people
>won't.

Don't like the FAQs, killfile for the "[FAQ]" designation.
You'll find FAQs posted to many newsgroups on
Usenet regularly. I've already pointed out in that other
thread why this is the case.


Mae Tang
(replace "nospam" with "nu-it" for a valid e-mail address)

mae...@nospam.demon.co.uk

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Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
On Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:39:38 -0800, "Alize" <dho...@prodigy.net>
wrote:

>Hey I just want everyone to have a good time. What do ya think? This would


>be a great place for new users (not newbies) to go and share information

>with out some extremely rude person shoving a FAQ down their throat.

Your proposal on alt.config has already attracted many
posts pointing out why this is a bad idea. I'd refer anyone
who missed that to the relevent thread on Dejanews.

Here's another FAQ for you. Don't like it, go ahead and
killfile me/it. But I wonder at a potential moderator who
cannot respond to reasonable queries / debates without
flying off the handle and resorting to name-calling:

>FAQ: "Why don't we make more Creatures newsgroups?"
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>(Version 0.1)
>------------------
>
>(1) What's this FAQ about?
>(2) So why don't we make more Creatures newsgroups?
>(3) If we don't want more Creatures newsgroups, what
>other alternatives are there?
>
>
>(1) What's this FAQ about?
>
>Every once in a while on alt.games.creatures, we see this
>question being asked. When this happens, the regulars
>usually have to explain their reasons for disagreeing yet
>again. So for our mutual convenience, here they all are in
>one FAQ! ;^) Please read this before you ask the question
>(again), and then see if some of the reasons given don't
>make sense to you. If you can think of alternatives, then feel
>free to propose them, but you should probably be aware that
>this question has been asked and turned down on this group
>many, many times previously (Dejanews archives will give
>you the (gory?) specifics). Having said that:
>
>
>(2) So why don't we make more Creatures newsgroups?
>
>Usually, the arguments for and against more Creatures
>newsgroups are as follows:
>
>(a) "I only have Creatures 1 / Creatures 2. I don't want to
>read all these posts about a game I don't have. Why
>can't we have an alt.games.creatures2 and an
>alt.binaries.games.creatures2 newsgroup as well?"
>
>It's been suggested on more than one occasion, that
>we split the Creatures hierarchy further by adding in
>alt.games.creatures2 and alt.binaries.games.creatures2.
>(If Creatures 3 comes out in 1999, then you can add in
>2 more groups to that suggestion as well). Usually, the
>arguements against that suggestion are as follows:
>
>- You'd have to get alt.config to agree that 2-4 more
>groups were needed and justified. The process of
>coming up with evidence for this could be very
>difficult. You would have to show that the volume of
>posts for Creatures 1 and 2 _each_, are enough to
>justify adding in a new group that would take C2
>posters away from the original. Given that 2-300 posts
>a day here is a fairly high number for Usenet, if divided
>evenly between 1-3 (if we factor in C3 eventually)
>groups, that's not a very high number. Consider that
>some groups out there can get 1000-2000 a day. Is
>2-300 here really so extreme? And then we'd have
>to consider a.g.c.'s sibling group,
>alt.binaries.games.creatures. This group doesn't
>get so many messages each day. We probably
>wouldn't have enough evidence to convince
>alt.config that we needed another 1-2 groups just for
>C2 or C3 binaries.
>
>- The risk of cross-posts between all 4-6 groups
>would be high. As it is, we often get newbies who
>are unsure, based on the name of the group alone,
>where they should post their questions, or binaries.
>At times, to hedge their bets, newbies cross-post
>their questions and attachments to both groups at
>once, as they are unaware that:
> - most people on a.g.c. also read a.b.g.c
> - text threads are usually inappropriate on
> a.b.g.c., while binaries are never welcome
> on a.g.c..
>If this happens with 2 groups, you can imagine the
>problems we would have with 4-6 seperate groups.
>Do you really want to download the same question /
>thread / binary 4-6 times because a confused newbie
>decided to cross-post to all Creatures-related groups?
>Even if we leave out the confused newbies, what about
>discussions / topics that may relate to more than one of
>the games? Which group would those go to? eg:
>Stories, factions, off-topic discussions, news about
>Cyberlife or new releases, questions such as: which
>game is better?, etc. Chances are that people would
>end up cross-posting such wide-ranging and general
>threads between all groups, causing havoc on the
>cross-posting front.
>
>- Having 4-6 groups about Creatures would mean
>that regulars would have to stretch their resources
>between 4-6 groups instead of only 2. By resources
>I mean things such as: time taken to read and reply
>to questions; time taken to download and upload
>posts; FAQs that are posted regularly to the groups;
>archives of the binaries groups, and so on. Many
>people with a high input on a.g.c. - people who
>answer newbie questions regularly, who post FAQs,
>who answer complex technical questions about the
>game (cobbling, genetics) - have said before that
>they would not be able to spare the time or attention
>to deal with more groups on a daily basis. That
>means that we would lose some of the more helpful
>members of the community, who are extremely
>valued because they are so active in regularly giving
>their input here. If you've ever had help from
>someone on a.g.c. on a question which you couldn't
>answer on your own, you probably appreciated the
>time and care that person took to reply to you. Isn't
>that worth a little more trouble in filtering posts on
>a.g.c.?
>
>Basically, by general consensus here, filtering really
>is the answer to question (a). As pointed out in
>various FAQs, people who post to a.g.c. are
>encouraged to add designations such as : [C1], [C2],
>[OT], [faction], [story] and [FAQ] to their subject lines.
>All you have to do if you don't want to read any of
>the posts in those categories, is to filter out posts
>according to those designations. It's relatively easy
>to set up a filter, as opposed to dealing with alt.config,
>or cross-posts between 4-6 groups on a regular
>basis. And, the regulars will still be the same happy,
>helpful bunch you know and love so well (<--- that
>should be tagged: [fiction], I know. ;^)). If you find that
>there are a bunch of newbies that are posting on
>a.g.c. without adding such tags to their subject lines,
>then you too! can help out by reminding them politely
>to start doing that. People usually only need to be
>told once, or directed to the relevent FAQ to get the
>idea.
>
>(b) "I'm not interested in the Creatures fiction on this
>group. Why don't we make an
>alt.games.creatures.fiction group, just for those posts?"
>
>The first 2 reasons for question (a) also apply here:
>justifying this to alt.config (even harder: "A newsgroup
>for fiction about a game?" and, there aren't that many
>stories posted here each week), and the risk of cross-
>posts. The third reason also applies to some extent.
>Many of the regular story posters on a.g.c. have said
>that they would rather stop writing and posting stories,
>rather than having to post them on a seperate group.
>Even if you don't like stories, it only takes a moment to
>set up a filter for the [story] or [fiction] designation that
>writers usually use. The same goes for off-topic posts,
>which are very tolerated on a.g.c. (see other FAQs
>about the tolerance given to off-topic posts on a.g.c.).
>Learn to filter for the [OT] designation if you dislike
>off-topic posts.
>
>
>(3) If we don't want more Creatures newsgroups, what
>other alternatives are there?
>
>On the personal level, we encourage people to
>use filters (see above). In a wider sense, however,
>there are alternatives to creating new newsgroups
>which you might like to consider (alt.config would be
>very likely to suggest these to you anyway, if you
>posted there about adding to the Creatures
>hierarchy):
>
>- Message boards. If you can't find what you want or
>like on a.g.c., you can always set up, or look for
>message boards relating to the game. These may suit
>your needs more.
>
>- Mailing lists. You can always set up a mailing list for a
>particular aspect of the game that you are specifically
>interested in, eg: stories, C1, C2, genetics, cobbling, etc.
>There are already some mailing lists related to such
>specific aspects of the game that you may wish to look
>for as well. This FAQ isn't going to plug these, but you can
>ask around on a.g.c., or check out various webpages for
>more details.
>
>- Chat and ICQ. There are already existing Creatures
>Chat sessions, and many players are happy ICQ-ing
>each other. If you can't find a chat which you like, you
>can always set one up yourself, and be as particular
>about what you want to see discussed as you like.
>
>Basically, all of those alternatives are about creating
>new channels of communication, or about using
>existing ones which you may find more suitable. Feel
>free to suggest other alternatives if they occur to you.

LD VGER2

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Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
Emily says-

>Can you not take a hint? I don't want you. I don't want your newsgroup. I
>think you are a pathetic little whining brat. And I think I represent the
>majority of the newsgroup when I say this.

Ummm...I hate to contradict you Emily...and please don't take this wrong...but
I personally have no objections to folks posting ideas to this NG and I don't
remember being part of any poll to elect you NG spokesperson. While I may not
post often, I do read the NG twice each day and so count myself as a member of
this NG community. Part of the reason I enjoy this NG is because it seems
fairly open and helpful to new folks and does not seem to be composed of an
"elite" few who believe anyone who asks questions or makes suggestions should
be immediately flamed.

Just my $.02 worth...

Lora/LD

Shaun

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Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
>to go and share information
>with out some extremely rude person
> shoving a FAQ down their throat

Wait til he gets kicked without warning, or censored<G>

--
-HACKABIT
Registered user of Ultraedit32
the best hex/text/html editor in my opinion
45 day trials at www.ultaedit.com
register for the best support/show of appreciation
Thanks go to Ian D. Mead

LdyMagic33

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Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to

Well, if somebody allows this new group then this new group might not allow it.
Maybe answers, not FAQS. I'm not the one making it but I know that it would
be fine by me to have another NG.

Emily Sachs

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Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
LD VGER2 wrote:
>
> Ummm...I hate to contradict you Emily...and please don't take this wrong...but
> I personally have no objections to folks posting ideas to this NG and I don't
> remember being part of any poll to elect you NG spokesperson.

Reread my post. I didn't say that I was the and/or a newsgroup spokesperson.
I'm just having a very bad day, and Alize' has a tendency to push my buttons
wrong.

> While I may not
> post often, I do read the NG twice each day and so count myself as a member of
> this NG community.

Right...

> Part of the reason I enjoy this NG is because it seems
> fairly open and helpful to new folks and does not seem to be composed of an
> "elite" few who believe anyone who asks questions or makes suggestions should
> be immediately flamed.

There is a difference between "making suggestions" and "going behind the back of
the community and creating something potentially annoying for all involved out
of spite". Had Alize merely suggested this, and not actually sent the control
message, I would have _calmly_ laid out why I thought it was a bad idea. Had
Alize' not targeted me in chat and on the newsgroup before, I would not have
reacted like this. I was not trying to say that "I am the only voice in the
newsgroup", but that "this is what I think". FWIW, after I posted this, I did
admit to Denise that I had prolly over reacted (though, admittedly, I didn't
word it quite like that).

If you paid attention to how I act on this newsgroup, I can be helpful to
newbies, and I, for the most part, do not flame every question and suggestion.
I admit that I can be irritable at times, but I have more patience than some
people here. I have written to somewhat decent FAQs that I post on a regular
basis (though I forgot them this week, oops). I think that you might be making
judgements about me based on this one post, and this is not really a good
representative of my online persona, and as such, I resent it.

I don't think that you should make judgements on me based on one post.



> Just my $.02 worth...
>
> Lora/LD

--
Just a thought from: Emily Sachs | "When you come to the edge of all that
-> http://members.xoom.com/Emy/ | you know, you must believe one of
-> ICQ: 8980276 | two things; there will be earth
-> AIM: Emy Elis | upon which to stand, or you will be
-> I need to change my sig more. | given wings to fly."
-----------------------------------------------------
"Ambition is a poor excuse for not having sense enough to be lazy."
~Charlie McCarthy

Alize

unread,
Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
Of course we allow FAQ's but sometimes the way they are used *here* are a
bit intrusive.

I recieved a FAQ just because I accidently posted a binary on this group. It
is a bit annoying when it was only an accident. Why was it annoying? Well
because I know what I did "wrong" and I apologized. But, I don't want some
self proclaimed "high priestess of FAQ's" e-mailing me her AGC rules. Here
is a USENet rule for ya "Post here Read here." and visa versa. Meaning when
you post a FAQ as a reply to an "accident" don't e-mail it. Period.


LdyMagic33 wrote in message
<19990207035051...@ng-cr1.aol.com>...
:
:Well, if somebody allows this new group then this new group might not allow

Emily Sachs

unread,
Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
Alize wrote:
>
> Of course we allow FAQ's but sometimes the way they are used *here* are a
> bit intrusive.
>
> I recieved a FAQ just because I accidently posted a binary on this group. It
> is a bit annoying when it was only an accident. Why was it annoying? Well
> because I know what I did "wrong" and I apologized. But, I don't want some
> self proclaimed "high priestess of FAQ's" e-mailing me her AGC rules. Here
> is a USENet rule for ya "Post here Read here." and visa versa. Meaning when
> you post a FAQ as a reply to an "accident" don't e-mail it. Period.

While you may have known that posting a binary is *bad* and you may have
apologised, you must take into account that many people who post binaries
_don't_ know any better and that posts take different amounts of time to reach
each server. When Mae sent you the FAQ, she did not mean it to be rude or
annoying. She was merely trying to make sure that you knew that binaries
weren't acceptable here. Her server may not have gotten your apology; she
didn't necessarily know that you understood just _why_ it was wrong. You can't
fault her for trying to keep you, as a newer member of the newsgroup, informed
of what is common netiquitte.

Alize

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Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to

Emily Sachs wrote in message <36BD5679...@mediaone.net>...

:LD VGER2 wrote:
:>
:> Ummm...I hate to contradict you Emily...and please don't take this
wrong...but
:> I personally have no objections to folks posting ideas to this NG and I
don't
:> remember being part of any poll to elect you NG spokesperson.
:
:Reread my post. I didn't say that I was the and/or a newsgroup
spokesperson.
:I'm just having a very bad day, and Alize' has a tendency to push my
buttons
:wrong.
:


Emily, just so ya know here is something you said a while back to a newbie.
In case ya forgot.

<begin quoting of Miss Emy>
As I've said, it's very unpleasant to get rude comments such as yours when
you're trying to help. And having a 'bad day' is usually not a good excuse.
You wouldn't go be rude to your boss, and expect him not to fire/reprimand
you
because you're 'having a bad day'.
<End quoting of Miss Emy>

hmm interesting...

______
Dillon
______

Alize

unread,
Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
oh and just incase you disagree Emy, here's another quote to refresh your
memory.

<begin unnecessary quoting>
No, the boss analogy fits, because it's something you wouldn't do in real
life.
You wouldn't slap a friend for being nice to you, for instance. I'm just
trying
to transfer your previous behavior off the net.
<end unnecessary quoting>

mae...@nospam.demon.co.uk

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Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
On 6 Feb 1999 22:46:06 GMT, ldyma...@aol.com (LdyMagic33) wrote:

>I said faqs are way too long. No newbie will want to read it.

On each NG I join, I _always_ look for the FAQs
first, as a _newbie_ to that group. If the FAQs are
really long, I still read them, because that makes
me even more aware of the fact that the group
in question may have a lot to offer to a newbie by
way of information, advice, help, etc. I feel I learn
from such FAQs, and also that they help me not to
behave like an idiot on that NG by asking a question
which has been asked and answered many times
before. On NGs which are less newbie-friendly than
a.g.c., taking the time to read an FAQ has often
saved me from accidentally triggering off a flame war,
or annoying the regulars without a good reason. ;^)

YMMV, of course, but in all the time I've spent on
Usenet (5 years almost daily), I've yet to feel that any
FAQs I've read are a waste of time. Indeed, FAQs have
often saved me the time of asking for, or hunting down
bits of information which I needed badly. I still print out
FAQs which I've found particularly useful so that I can
refer to them easily time and again, or so that I can share
them with friends who may not have net access.

>It is just
>waytoo long, plain and simple. I know a lot of people just don't have the
>time.

Don't have the time, or can't be bothered to look up
and digest the information for themselves? Call me
biased, but I respect people who have the initiative to
take control of their own learning process, and who
don't merely want to be spoon fed answers at their
smallest whim. If these people cannot take the time to
use some resources which are so easily available to
them (the whole point of FAQs), then I wonder what
they are doing on the Internet in the first place?
Counting all the words for fun? Seeing how much
noise they can generate over nothing? If you aren't here
to read stuff, look for information, etc, why come here at
all?

Basically, as various people have said to you before:
don't like them, filter them out. FAQs are always
designated as "[FAQ]"s for that very reason. I don't see
why you continue to complain about the situation when
it's so easy for you to fix it for yourself. Quite frankly, I
doubt that you are listening to anyone else's explanation
here. If that is the case, then I can only surmise that you
are trying to create a fuss on the pretext of this topic, in
order to be purposefully disruptive. I wouldn't exactly call
that trolling, but it certainly doesn't strike me as the
response of a reasonable individual who is interested in
dialogue.

mae...@nospam.demon.co.uk

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Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
On Sun, 7 Feb 1999 01:25:39 -0000, "Miff" <M.F...@btinternet.com>
wrote:

>FACT: Alize is a known trouble maker on JR Chat
>FACT: We have 5 groups moderated and specific, flawing all his arguments and
>a sister group for files.
>FACT: None of alizes ops were known by any of us.

Only one of them, apart from Alize posted to alt.config
to defend their proposal there. Which makes me wonder
if the others exist at all. Even the one who posted failed
to reply to the questions which were raised, while Alize
merely degenerated into arguments such as "[because]
I say so" when questioned.

>FACT: He at first went behind our backs to do this.
>FACT: This has been a general group for the community and has served its
>needs well and will continue to do for some time- we survive fine.
>FACT: 99% of us are against this.
>FACT: It was brought up before and dismissed.
>FACT: He has yet to provide us with one needed reason for the group.

To this you might want to add what Denise noted:
That he has already lied in his proposal/charter:
- there are definitely not 500 posts/day here as anyone
on this NG can easily see.
- the group which he has gone and created anyway,
was not discussed at all on alt.config (he proposed
alt.games.creatures2.moderated there, and not
alt.games.creatures.moderated).
- even with the alt.games.creatures2.moderated proposal,
he failed to reply to the various posts showing that there
was no need for this new group (eg: the posts which
pointed out that he lied about there being 500 posts/day
here).

Also that his profile on Dejanews shows that he's an
unsuitable individual to act as a moderator.

Add to that what Antinorn observed:

- that on this NG he's created, there's already a porn
post which has been sitting there for a number of days.
So much for effective moderation, unless porn happens
to be a part of the agenda on that group.

Basically, I'd say we boycott the group. There's not much
anyone can do, except perhaps go to alt.config, point
all this stuff out, and then request an RM Grouping of the
group. Even if we did that, RM Grouping would not ensure
that the group would be removed from all the servers it may
have managed to propogate to, in spite of all the lies in its
control message. I think we should boycott the group, and
leave it at that. Although if anyone else thinks we have a
strong enough case for suggesting on alt.config that the
group should be removed, I would definitely back up such
a thread there.

Frankly, I think it would become apparent to anyone who did
mistakenly subscribe to that group, that the place is already
failing miserably to work under the terms of its own charter
and bogus proposal. And for the people who do hate it here,
and think that that place sounds like heaven, then perhaps
it is better that they should be able to go somewhere else. ;^)
Our "loss" could just as well be this bogus group's "gain". ;^)
<eg> Hey, they already have one porn post. We may as well
consign all the trolls, SPAMmers and unreasonable
malcontents who show up here to a place which is so much
more their style... I can just see it now, instead of the usual
Eternal Pit of Hanson/Spice Girls' Videos, they could languish
in the depths of alt.games.creatures.moderated instead, where
Alize and his like can impose their idea of a "newsgroup" on
them instead. What could be more fitting? <eg>

RedWordSmith

unread,
Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
mae...@nospam.demon.co.uk wrote:
[cut]

> I wouldn't exactly call
> that trolling, but it certainly doesn't strike me as the
> response of a reasonable individual who is interested in
> dialogue.

That is the *classic* definition of Trolling. (No, really, I read it in a
previous thread here in DejaNews that discussed what a Troll was.)

jimbo

unread,
Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
Nornlove <norn...@aol.com> wrote

>yes, great idea. And without people being called morons and getting harassed
>and all that.

it won't stop you being called a moron.... to stop that, you must stop acting like
one. s'quite simple.
--
jimbo

official a.g.c. fingerpuppet ubermeister
fingerpuppets! fingerpuppets! get 'em while they're hot!

chirpy deck swabber of the jolly weeble

http://surf.to/jimbo123 - norns, grendels, ettins, hybrids, jayd's cobs plus bucketloads
of others, creature gallery, links, music and a PHOTO OF JIMBO! you want more?!?

if for some reason the above url works not, here is the full one:
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Cavern/1556

"i thought i was wrong once. i was mistaken." - karl kennedy

"hope is the one thing we will always have. hopefully." - me!

"WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH"
and most importantly,
"JIMBO IS COOL." hehe.

you may have noticed that there are few capital letters in my posts. frankly, i can't be
arsed with them.

Leticia

unread,
Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
I'm sorry for adding another long post to this pointless thread, but I
just feel that I've been here long enough to put my two cents in.

OK - time for some dissection:

On Sat, 6 Feb 1999 10:39:38 -0800, "Alize" <dho...@prodigy.net>
wrote:

>Hey I just want everyone to have a good time. What do ya think? This would

>be a great place for new users (not newbies) to go and share information
>with out some extremely rude person shoving a FAQ down their throat.

A new user is a nebie - it's the definition of the word.
It is not RUDE to proffer someone a faq. Consider it like this;
newsgroups are like foreign countries. They have their own customs
and traditions. Ever heard of the "ugly american" concept? The idea
that American's are bad tourists because they don't respect the
cultures they are visiting? Well, FAQ's are to help keep newbies from
being ugly americans, regardless of nationality.
I was glad to read the few faq's in existance well over a year ago
when I first started reading this newsgroup. I don't read most of
them now, but I don't object to their being posted, either.

>
>*****************************************
>CHARTER
>alt.games.creatures.moderated
>*****************************************
>
>CHARTER: This group will provide a moderated forum for the discussion of the
>sequel to the Artificial Life game Creatures and Creatures 2, by Cyberlife.
>The existing group alt.games.creatures has become very full (i.e. over 500
>posts a day) and unorganized (i.e. posts are a bit confusing due to the
>existence of two Creatures games) since the sequel's release. Splitting the
>group will undoubtedly help put an end to the "chaos" of trying to figure
>out which game each person is talking about.
I'm repeating others here, but if I get 250 posts a day, I'm
surprised. *rolls eyes* I mean, a little fact inflation is one
thing, but that number is 200% of the truth. That's a lot.
And I want to know HOW your group will help contain confusion between
games - it's still for both of them.
>
>MODERATION POLICY:
>Purpose: Light moderation of the newsgroup. Due to the nature of the game,
>it has attracted a very diverse age group. Needless to say *many*
>"flamewars" have broken out because of small misunderstandings. These
>"flamewars" are extremely unproductive, we talk often about programming the
>game and Artificial Life Reasearch, we don't want to have to wade through
>threads of various flames.
How many newsgroups have you frequented? We don't flame war like most
of the others I've visited. Really, some people just don't think.
And that last sentence is quite the run-on, congratulations!

>
>1. Spam posts are not admitted
>2. Off-topic posts are permitted as long as they are respectful to the
>public.
To the public what? To you, you mean.

>
>MODERATORS:
>Dillon Hosier (dho...@prodigy.net)
>Risela Tranchi (syra...@aol.com)
>Michael McFadden (ALPr...@aol.com)
>Marina Krige (omega2...@yahoo.com)
How many of these are active members of the current creatures
community, or even play creatures?

>
>GUIDELINES (per ISP or LAN Abuse Desk Request):
>To be posted weekly so that all users are aware of them.
>
>1. Moderation is very light, but please be respectful to all individuals.
>
>2. Please do not post questions or requests in more than one thread.
>
>3. Keep Off Topic posts to a minimum. They are accepted and are understood
>as creating a sense of community, however this is a Creatures 2 newsgroup
>lets try to stay on topic.
I thought this was for the sequel? Or was that supposed to be for all
three? Tighten up your logic!
>
>4. If you want to post an acceptable off topic post please label it, (OT),
>off topic, for other reader's benefit.
other readers', thank you. What do they teach in schools these days?
>
>5. Do not post with rudeness or brashness. No flame posts will be tolerated.
>And all flame posts will be removed. If you have a problem with someone
>resolve it in e-mail, *not* in this forum.
>
>__________
>end proposal/charter
>
>
Follow your own advice. This whole corny new newsgroup idea is your
foolish plan to "resolve" your problems with some members of this
group.

Endnotes: We can't stop you, and we don't care. Start your
newsgroup. But, like I said, we don't care. I imagine you'll get a
few newbies, but once they've experienced what I predict to be a
highly hostile environment, they may just come over here. Or, they
could sour on the whole notion. I predict your newsgroup will be a
underpopulated nest of little hateful hornets who swarm around talking
about how the "agc elite" are still messing things up for you.

I think that if you're planning to make a proposal such as this, to
make yourself seem intelligent and your plan seem logical, you should
keep as perfect grammar and spelling as you can manage. I didn't flag
half your little boo-boos.

I hope you know how much work moderating a newsgroup can be. If you
do a good job of it, it's an endless, thankless task. However, I
guess from your point of view, being able to gag relatively polite but
critical posts like mine will be well worth it.

jimbo

unread,
Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
Nornlove <norn...@aol.com> wrote
>>
>>>
>>>yes, great idea. And without people being called morons and getting
>>harassed
>>>and all that.
>>>
>>
>>Well it seems you are a moron if you think this would be good.... I wish
>>everyone to read the bottom of my sig(not the web addy)
>>My only wish is that stupid people be kicked off the web. So
>>Norn...@loser.aol.com omnilight and a bunch of others really don't even
>>deserve to be on the net....
>
> hey, I don't like OTHER people getting called morons. That's how I ended up
>getting called one. last time i checked, my e-mail was Norn...@aol.com so I
>guess you don't mean me.

such wit from such a small brain. amazing, nature, isn't it?

jimbo

unread,
Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
Nornlove <norn...@aol.com> wrote
>>really don't even

::points:: look, nornlove's brain. you may need to use a magnifying glass.

folks, this is the person who defended, yes, *defended*, lightomni, the biggest
idiot to walk the earth in the history of mankind.

Shaun

unread,
Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
<following points arnt to be taken personal or discourage new people>
NG are for helping less informed not feeding the lazy<sorry>.
Read the sigs and copying URLs, read the faqs, and do a little websurfing
and then ask the question if your stuck.
Even reading past posts(few days worth) will sometime answer a persons
questions. How many times in a average week has C2 installation hhelp
problem been asked. New problem no problem, but people have to make an
effort to look before it can be classed as a new problem.
If people read justs the FAQs they would avoid the posting pitfalls,
annoying others, and probably learn something they havnt even thought to ask
about.
Lastly if older members of the community arnt available on the other
newsgroup how may questions/ideas do you think will get answered/explored.


--
-HACKABIT
Registered user of Ultraedit32
the best hex/text/html editor in my opinion

45 day trials at www.ultraedit.com

Rigby

unread,
Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to

Nornina wrote in message <19990208142547...@ng38.aol.com
Read the USENet lesson and get a clue.

How do I access this NSENet lesson, please?

Rigby

Rigby

unread,
Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
Maetang, thank you for saying what my lack of seniority does not entitle me
to express.....

Rigby

NORNGod

unread,
Feb 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/7/99
to
LD VGER2 wrote:
>
> Emily says-
>
> >Can you not take a hint? I don't want you. I don't want your newsgroup. I
> >think you are a pathetic little whining brat. And I think I represent the
> >majority of the newsgroup when I say this.
>
> Ummm...I hate to contradict you Emily...and please don't take this wrong...but
> I personally have no objections to folks posting ideas to this NG and I don't
> remember being part of any poll to elect you NG spokesperson. While I may not

> post often, I do read the NG twice each day and so count myself as a member of
> this NG community. Part of the reason I enjoy this NG is because it seems

> fairly open and helpful to new folks and does not seem to be composed of an
> "elite" few who believe anyone who asks questions or makes suggestions should
> be immediately flamed.

Poll or no poll, it's been discussed countless amount of times, and shot
down each and everytime. Now "Alize" comes along and does it behind
everyone's back. He created the newsgroup against the wishes of almost
everyone here.
--
~NORNGod \ Visit NORNGod's NORNMania!
\ http://www.kpweb.com/chosted/norngod/
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ\
\ Soon to be on it's own server at:
\ http://www.norngod.com
Please get \
it right... \ Home of the largest C2 map on the web! Nice
\ selection of C2 colored norns, and lots more!
_________________\
\ There is also my personal page on crappy
The correct \ Xoom: http://members.xoom.com/dstyring/
spelling is \________________________________________
NORNGod.. not NORNgod, norngod, NORNGOD, NornGod, nornGod
nornGOD, NornGOD, or anything else that isn't *NORNGod*.
Just NG also works... |ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ|I can be reached either by email:
Hopefully coming |
soon from yours |nor...@fast.net
truly (!): |
My own female Ettin |
sprites! |
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
There is NO typo in Netscrape... <G>

orchid

unread,
Feb 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/8/99
to

> Hi,

I just want to say that I do agree with your idea for a new newsgroup. The
reason is, that I think that it would be nice to be able to ask questions on
here without always having an FAQ shot at you. I've read most of them, and
99% of the time, they are not what I am looking for, and it just gets
tiresome not being able to get real help. Anyway, people say that people
should read all the faq's before posting a question so that the regulars on
the newsgroup don't get "overworked". The way i see it, you don't have to
reply to an FAQ if you don't want to...so there's nothing to make you be
"overworked". Anyway, hope I didn't offend anyone here, but I don't see
what's wrong with it. It's just another newsgroup afterall, whoever doesn't
want to go there doesn't have to afterall.

Thanks everyone, have a great night!

Orchid's Creatures Garden
www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Corridor/5969

-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

Alize

unread,
Feb 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/8/99
to
:It's amazing that you're still fixated <snip ceaseless bantering>

Dude, I mentioned it. I am not fixated. You're not that important.

Dillon
:
:Mae Tang

Alize

unread,
Feb 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/8/99
to
How many times do we have to go through this. No poll is nessessary. I don't
need to ask permission. If I wanted to. I could create an
alt.games.creatures.stories, or anyone else could. U-n-d-e-r-s-t-a-n-d? Read

the USENet lesson and get a clue.

:
:Poll or no poll, it's been discussed countless amount of times, and shot

Alize

unread,
Feb 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/8/99
to

mae...@nospam.demon.co.uk wrote in message
<36cc65f8...@news.demon.co.uk>...
:On Sun, 7 Feb 1999 02:00:27 -0800, "Alize" <dho...@prodigy.net>
:wrote:
:
:>Emily, just so ya know here is something you said a while back to a

newbie.
:>In case ya forgot.
:
:And just in case anyone misses this from the alt.config
:thread, here's something you posted to that group. I
:think it clearly shows your reasons for the creation of
:this new group (because "you say so"),

My lord how many times do I have to say this...Mae you must be one of the
slowest people here. ALT IS ANARCHY TERRORISTS AND LUNATICS. ALT ALT ALT
A-L-T. Which means what? It means that "Because I say so" is the back bone
of this community.

and your real
:attitude towards the people on this group: calling us
:all "uneducated" simply because we disagree with your
:point of view...

I said most are, I didn't specify, anything beyond that is self-submission.

to pick on Emy here, :which merely show that you are not are not the calm
and
:thoughtful moderator which a group on Creatures might
:deserve.

But you digress, this is ALT so sure I am.

YMMV of course, but I've yet to see you respond
:to any of the well reasoned arguments against your group
:in any reasonable fashion. Instead, you seem to fall back
:on insulting those who disagree with you, while claiming
:that "I say so" is a good enough reason for your actions.

umm Read the main Why we need AGC post. I don't think it says:
I say so
I say so
I say so

Ahh look here is that post. Thanks Mae. As you can see I said "most", Are
you calling yourself, well, 252?

:>Unfortunetly, not most are. It might coincide with the fact that there are
:>many uneducated people in this world. In fact, most are those who have
:>negativly responded to this Proposal. As those are the people who have
made
:>AGC an unpleasent place to be.
:>:


xOtix

unread,
Feb 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/8/99
to

Rigby wrote in message ...

>Maetang, thank you for saying what my lack of seniority does
not entitle me
>to express.....
>
>Rigby
>

Rigby, you have as much right to express your opinion here as
anyone else, as I have advocated since I donned the title of
Creatures Community Advocate O So Many Moons Ago! Don't be
afraid to go for it!

One of the reasons that this newsgroup can *appear* somewhat..
um.. tumultuous, to people who do not yet belong to this
community, is that we do, in fact hold a person's right to
express their opinion dear, even if we disagree with it. This
allows us to express our own opinion in return, and often things
get quite heated, as they will in _any_ community. But we all
learn a little more about each other, and hopefully that no-one
is _all_ bad, or for that matter _all_ good.

I mean, that's why we pass out, straitjackets, fingerpuppets,
and asbestos suits to newbies when they first arrive (if we're
not somewhat overworked by a large influx, as at Christmas
time). A lot of what passes for flamewars are a type of
RPG-play. That's why I have a section on it in my FAQ compendium
site.

So go ahead and state your opinion, and be prepared to defend it
<g>

This, too... shall pass.

~ jann

<AGC FAQs Archivist ~ Creatures Community Advocate>
<<sprite artist>>
?? Confused About C1 ?? C2 ?? Alt.Games.Creatures??
Need Help ??
xOtix's "Jus' Gimme All Th' FAQs"
--Creatures(1), Creatures2, The Creatures Community
http://www.jannart.on.ca/allcfaqs.htm

Creator of The Albian Fruit Basket COB <for C2>
(with a lot of help from JayD)
http://www.jannart.on.ca/basket.htm

< x0...@my-dejanews.com >


xOtix

unread,
Feb 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/8/99
to

orchid wrote in message <79lftn$ua8$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...

>
>> Hi,
>
>I just want to say that I do agree with your idea for a new
newsgroup. The
>reason is, that I think that it would be nice to be able to ask
questions on
>here without always

Why the "absolute" tag here? --this kind of thing can come
across as encendiary.

>having an FAQ shot at you.

again, colourful language, but inaccurate. No one shoots FAQs
_at_ people. And I have never heard of anyone replying to one
of your posts with a FAQ.

You were steered to the FAQs when you first arrived because you
obviously were not aware that you required permission from the
authors of the COBs you had placed on your website for download.
Do you resent that? Just curious..

> I've read most of them, and
>99% of the time, they are not what I am looking for, and it
just gets
>tiresome not being able to get real help. Anyway, people say
that people
>should read all the faq's before posting a question so that the
regulars on
>the newsgroup don't get "overworked". The way i see it, you
don't have to
>reply to an FAQ if you don't want to...so there's nothing to
make you be
>"overworked".

I'm afraid your discussion breaks down a little here. The
regulars get a little "overworked" _not_ by people _responding_
to FAQs, but by having to answer the same questions over and
over again, which do require fairly involved answers (lots of
time-consuming typing) since this is a complex set of games.

> Anyway, hope I didn't offend anyone here, but I don't see
>what's wrong with it.

If that's what you believe, fine, but if you had read the FAQ
that Mae produced on the subject you would realise how chaotic
it could become. You are new here and so you don't know all the
ins and outs of this conflict. You are as entitled as anyone
else here to state your opinion, but you may find your opinion
better received if it is an informed one. Try
reading/researching Dejanews to inform your opinion a bit more.

It's just another newsgroup afterall, whoever doesn't
>want to go there doesn't have to afterall.

No one is going to go to a newsgroup that that is unnessarilly
wasting bandwidth. Only the usual malcontents will show up
there. The point as many have already stated is that this person
is grinding their own axe, trying to trash the regulars on this
group, lying about us, about their "proposal", etc, etc, etc..
No one is going to be forced to go there. No one is going to be
prevented from going there, but the purpose of all these threads
is make sure that people have a choice (especially newbies) and
that their choice is informed. If people then _want_ to go to a
newsgroup that has been created by deceit, *moderated* by an
irresponsible known hothead who bears longstanding
grudge-fantasies, they are welcome to go there --in fact, most
of us are encouraging them to go there, since it has already
been created without consultation with the existing community...

All of the above is my personal opinion. ;`)

>Thanks everyone, have a great night!


Thankyou. Same to you.

~ jann

<AGC FAQs Archivist ~ Creatures Community Advocate>
<<sprite artist>>
?? Confused About C1 ?? C2 ?? Alt.Games.Creatures??
Need Help ??
xOtix's "Jus' Gimme All Th' FAQs"
--Creatures(1), Creatures2, The Creatures Community
http://www.jannart.on.ca/allcfaqs.htm

Creator of The Albian Fruit Basket COB <for C2>

(with a lot of help from JayD!)
http://www.jannart.on.ca/basket.htm

< x0...@my-dejanews.com >


jimbo

unread,
Feb 8, 1999, 3:00:00 AM2/8/99