Getting Norns to eat in C2

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Elizabeth Strong

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Sep 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/7/98
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I've had my first three Norns die from hunger. I've tried everything! The
game looks good, but it's no fun playing, now. I finally imported a Norn
from C1, who I knew was a good eater, and she still is. In fact, she coaxed
another C2 Norn to eat, and it seemed to work!
Also, a female was pregnant for 54? What did that represent? She got
pregnant as an adolescent and then died as a senior!
I would like to know how other players have solved these problems.
Thanks, Betty

NornGarden

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Sep 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/7/98
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Mine are still starving to death. I agree with you. The game has almost
stopped being fun. You spend a lot of time training, them, teaching them,
etc.. And if you can pamper them to live as long as two and a half hours, you
are rewarded with their early aging and death. :(


Vicki

AntiNorn

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Sep 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/7/98
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I disagree. C2 is much more fun and challenging then C1 ever could
have hoped for..

Try this: For the first few generations, raise only one Norns at a
time, import another Norns only when breeding. Don't take a Norn
exploring until they are at least a youth. Younger Nonrs will stress
out and/or get sick more easily when leaving the incubator area.

Reinforced teaching is a necessity. Don't overly reward your Norn,
and don't tickle them just to hear the giggle. Slap them around if
you need to, but not too much as slaps can result in injury.


A note: after talking with a number of C2 users both in email and
Chat, I've noticed that quite a few people have become dependant on
using Cobs to "raise" thier Norns, and this is resulting in alot of
premature deaths in C2. If you find C2 to be impossible to deal with,
I suggest you go back to C1 for a few hours and raise hatchery Norns
without the use of ANY Cobs, then go back to C2 and see if you learned
anything.


Tortured Norns: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/2495/

Chris Double

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Sep 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/7/98
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One thing I noticed in the manual was the following:

"When young, Norns may learn what the words are before their meaning. This
does not necessarily mean your Norn will never understand that word, it
might just mean that the genetic instinct has not been processed yet."

So if your young norns don't 'eat' when you tell then too it could be
because they know the word but not what it means. The 'eat' instinct has not
been processed. Given the norn some time - try letting it sleep. In C1 the
instincts got processed when the norn slept.

Chris.
--
http://www.cnd.co.nz/creatures
icq 8600051

Das

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Sep 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/7/98
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anti...@usa.net (AntiNorn) wrote:

<snip>

see folks? all this from AntiNorn, he's not the horrid beast some
mislead people mistook him for :)

*holds up his "We Love AntiNorn"* coffee mug*

>Tortured Norns: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/2495/


Another thought revoking message from your friendly neighborhood spider...

er.....wait...that's Peter Parker.....oh well, here's something from

Das (pronounced DOS) of NORN

other aliases: Das le' `chaz, MechaDas, Das_Albia, SM-Angel-Das, Das chaq',Admiral Meepy, DEMO101 (groan)
annoying petnames: Dassypooh, Dassy, Dassie, DoilyDude, Dassydoodle, <insert another annoying name here>

Admiral Meepy of the Weeble Pirating organization

regional Pyromania director within NORN collective
"bringing new ways to set objects aflame"

UIN:6920984
http://members.aol.com/DEMO101/Albia.html
Albia Express, proud home of the Ma G saga:)

Master of the sacred Hiss and Bite Technique

To reply remove binky

"at base, science is no more than an investigation
miracle we can never explain, and art is an interpetation
of that miracle" -Ray Bradbury, The Martian Chronciles

"A woman can pour hot wax on her legs and rip out the
hair but still be afraid of a spider" -Jerry Seinfeld, Sein Language

"Why be positive when being negative is so much easier?" -Das (hey, that's ME!!)

"And here's what <insert name> sez, with a mouth full of PEZ!" - Jason Westman :)

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"lol" - anyone who's ever been within 20 feet of a computer (or a mac <G>)

"where's my pants?" - anyone that's been through college

"if ignorance is bliss then maybe humans are the holy ones" - another one from my thought vaults

"Been around the world and I found only stupid people are breeding" - Harvey Danger

"Never eat anything bigger than your head" - Max Jerome

"I refuse be quoted in a Sig" - AntiNorn

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should be forced into hard physical labor or be executed, while Intelligence supervises to make sure
they're doing it correctly. Welcome to the economics." - Book of Das, Chapter 4, Section 1

"32 bit performance, as opposed to 32 emulated on 16 bit platform, for an 8 bit patch,based on a 4 bit processor, built by a 2 bit company, who cant stand for 1 bit of competition." - Jason Moran, aka Tetsyck, comparing WinNT and Win95/98

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note: I neither know nor care about any typo I amke, please do nto bother me about thme.

NornGarden

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Sep 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/7/98
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AntiNorn, I think you are right. I did become dependent on the cobs in C1, and
even to all the super norns from C1.
This game is far more challanging, it will take a bit of getting used to. I'm
going to keep trying!! :) And I plan to follow the advice you just gave.
Thank you!!


Vicki

KLaYmAn Oo

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Sep 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/7/98
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It's almost scary to see that side of AntiNorn....


KLaY
~BrEaK the MoLd~

KLaY's Lost Paradise
http://members.aol.com/Ettin0o0/creat
(Creatures 2 WebPage)

NornGarden

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Sep 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/7/98
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I didn't know that, about the instincts kicking in. I just assumed if they
knew the word, they knew what it meant.


Vicki

Lis Morris

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Sep 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/7/98
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Chris Double wrote in message <6t08t9$nl1$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>...

I thought instincts reinforced good ideas, rather than teaching them the
meaning of the actions they do. For instance, activate 1 when hungry --> 127
rewards, etc. Does it teach them the meaning of words too?

--
Lis Morris,
Resident evil shee potato grower.
Terra Nornia is now out- a new world for your norns.
The Shee- ready for your world!
Get your hippy norns and grorns here!
New Grendel Pensioner Sprites!
Get all the above by following this link:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/morris_family/hippy.htm


Argh it's a geekcode! www.geekcode.com
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t++ 5++ X- R* tv-- b+++ DI-- D-- G++ e++(++++)*
h!>- r*% z-*
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------


"When you've got your back to the wall, the only thing
you can do is turn around and fight"

J. L. Williams

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Sep 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/7/98
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I've noticed that some of the babies in C2 (and even a few adults) are
prone to use "push" for eat, even when they've never been told to "push"
food, fruit, etc. This seems to indicate that there is a tie-in between
the two verbs and the resulting action/reward sequence. It does seem
that the nornlings start using "eat" for eating after they age a bit,
then revert to "push" as senility begins setting in.


Jo

Chris Double wrote:
>
> Lis Morris wrote in message <#dr3crl29GA.352@upnetnews03>...


> >
> >I thought instincts reinforced good ideas, rather than teaching them the
> >meaning of the actions they do. For instance, activate 1 when hungry -->
> 127
> >rewards, etc. Does it teach them the meaning of words too?
>

> In C1 you'll see instincts like 'If Verb is push and I push then reward
> +255'. There is an instinct like this for all the verbs. This sets up the
> initial knowledge for the norn to understand what to do when you type the
> verb. This is how I made the 'eat' norns at my web site. I created an
> instinct for one of the unassigned verb slots to say 'If verb is verb12 and
> I push then reward +255'. When they were taught using a modified speech cob
> that verb12 was 'eat' they would 'push' whenever 'eat' was said.
>
> If the instincts aren't processed or these instincts are deleted then the
> norn hears your words (the verb lobe fires) but it performs whatever action
> it wants to because no reward path is set up. It's painful to delete these
> instincts and try to teach a norn...
>
> From the statement in the manual I'd guess the same structure works in C2 -
> although in C1 the instincts for the norns were processed before they
> hatched at least once so they always understood your verbs. Maybe in C2 they
> aren't processed until a little later.

Pinstar1

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Sep 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/7/98
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I have a technique called "bad norn, good norn"
Polinesia: what if you are doing it to an ettin or a grendal?<brawk>

Shut up poliensia... anyway, here is what you do, when the norn's highest drive
is food <when the carrot appears next to their heart on the status bar> get
them to look at some food and say"eat food" if they do anything other than
"come food", "get food" or "eat food" slap them, they should walk to the food,
once at the food, say it again, if it doesn't "eat food" slap it, continue to
repeat that, until the norn eats then say "yes" about 4 or 5 times, you may be
temped to scritch, but "yes" seems to work better. Then the creature SHOULD eat
on its own when it's hungry
Pinstar- God of "norns on the newsgroup"
Author of interactive stories
Polinesia: what weighs 3000 pounds and<brawk> has the collective IQ of 80?
Brawk: A football team!
Apollo: someone on Jerry Springer?
Cappie:all norns:Remember to speak out!


Lis Morris

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Sep 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/7/98
to

Chris Double wrote in message <6t0kvq$ds5$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>...

>Lis Morris wrote in message <#dr3crl29GA.352@upnetnews03>...
>>
>>I thought instincts reinforced good ideas, rather than teaching them the
>>meaning of the actions they do. For instance, activate 1 when hungry -->
>127
>>rewards, etc. Does it teach them the meaning of words too?
>
>
>In C1 you'll see instincts like 'If Verb is push and I push then reward
>+255'. There is an instinct like this for all the verbs. This sets up the
>initial knowledge for the norn to understand what to do when you type the
>verb. This is how I made the 'eat' norns at my web site. I created an
>instinct for one of the unassigned verb slots to say 'If verb is verb12 and
>I push then reward +255'. When they were taught using a modified speech cob
>that verb12 was 'eat' they would 'push' whenever 'eat' was said.
>
>If the instincts aren't processed or these instincts are deleted then the
>norn hears your words (the verb lobe fires) but it performs whatever action
>it wants to because no reward path is set up. It's painful to delete these
>instincts and try to teach a norn...
>
>From the statement in the manual I'd guess the same structure works in C2 -
>although in C1 the instincts for the norns were processed before they
>hatched at least once so they always understood your verbs. Maybe in C2
they
>aren't processed until a little later.
>
>Chris.

Ooh, how interesting! Thanks for that... time to go and check the genkit
again <g>

catgut

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Sep 7, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/7/98
to
On 7 Sep 1998 07:27:11 GMT, "Elizabeth Strong"
<b-st...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>I've had my first three Norns die from hunger. I've tried everything! The
>game looks good, but it's no fun playing, now. I finally imported a Norn
>from C1, who I knew was a good eater, and she still is. In fact, she coaxed
>another C2 Norn to eat, and it seemed to work!
>Also, a female was pregnant for 54? What did that represent? She got
>pregnant as an adolescent and then died as a senior!
>I would like to know how other players have solved these problems.
>Thanks, Betty

After my first C2 norn died of hunger, and my second was still-hatched
(fell out of the incubator with stars around his head and died 3 mins
later). How amusing... I started to become impatient.

I decided to try a Darwinian experiment, and hatched the remaining 4
eggs all at once, and put the game in the background. A couple of
them seemed to learn to eat on their own, and one didn't. Too bad for
him, but he did manage to impregnate both females before kicking off.

I snatched up the eggs as they were laid (after reading that this will
put them on ice until I want them to hatch) and moved them up top.

All four ended up dying by adolescence, and I broke out the emergency
supply of 4 more eggs. Hatched them too and repeated experiment.

As it turns out, I now have a full graveyard, three eggs ready to be
hatched (sex unknown), and Bob, a second generation norn who likes to
eat.

I'll continue the experiment tonight. I'm tryign to see if they can
learn to eat without being told to. You think dying and suffering
from hunger pangs would teach them something, but I have my doubts.

** Please remove nodamnspam to reply by mail **

Chris Double

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Sep 8, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/8/98
to
Lis Morris wrote in message <#dr3crl29GA.352@upnetnews03>...
>
>I thought instincts reinforced good ideas, rather than teaching them the
>meaning of the actions they do. For instance, activate 1 when hungry -->
127
>rewards, etc. Does it teach them the meaning of words too?


In C1 you'll see instincts like 'If Verb is push and I push then reward
+255'. There is an instinct like this for all the verbs. This sets up the
initial knowledge for the norn to understand what to do when you type the
verb. This is how I made the 'eat' norns at my web site. I created an
instinct for one of the unassigned verb slots to say 'If verb is verb12 and
I push then reward +255'. When they were taught using a modified speech cob
that verb12 was 'eat' they would 'push' whenever 'eat' was said.

If the instincts aren't processed or these instincts are deleted then the
norn hears your words (the verb lobe fires) but it performs whatever action
it wants to because no reward path is set up. It's painful to delete these
instincts and try to teach a norn...

From the statement in the manual I'd guess the same structure works in C2 -
although in C1 the instincts for the norns were processed before they
hatched at least once so they always understood your verbs. Maybe in C2 they
aren't processed until a little later.

Chris.

Elizabeth Strong

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Sep 12, 1998, 3:00:00 AM9/12/98
to
Reply to Chris Double: After some thought, I see what you say is true. I
thought C2 Norns were supposed to be more intelligent, or at least have
better understanding. I had coaxed a Norn to explore, and he was scared to
death! When I tried to coax him back to the the Incubator room, he really
freaked out! I spanked a few times to try to convince him, to no avail. So I
gave up and left him there. The next time I started up the game, and went to
that Norn, amazingly he had changed completely. He followed the Hand with no
problem, and even seemed to be cheerful! Go figure.
Thanks, Betty

Chris Double wrote in message <6t08t9$nl1$1...@newsource.ihug.co.nz>...
>One thing I noticed in the manual was the following:
>
>"When young, Norns may learn what the words are before their meaning. This
>does not necessarily mean your Norn will never understand that word, it
>might just mean that the genetic instinct has not been processed yet."
>
>So if your young norns don't 'eat' when you tell then too it could be
>because they know the word but not what it means. The 'eat' instinct has
not
>been processed. Given the norn some time - try letting it sleep. In C1 the
>instincts got processed when the norn slept.
>
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