BG2: Pure kensai?
Spliced
Kensai/Mage, with the other 5% talking about Kensai/Thief or or dual. Does
anyone play a _pure_ Kensai?
I just realized that kensai's are not limited to swords and katanas, which
is great because I'm planning on a character that can hopefully dual-wield
Crom Fayer plus another weapon (flail/longsword/katana?). Comments on
effectiveness welcome.
I'm also wondering how a pure kensai with the above strategy would fair
against another fighter kit (or plain fighter), also with dual-wield and
warhammer/longsword proficiency. Er... I don't mean in a combat against
one another, I mean how they compare in effectiveness in the game.
I realize Kensai/mage is the end-all, but I don't particularly care to play
one. Thanks.
Waldoou812
>Kensai/Mage, with the other 5% talking about Kensai/Thief or or dual. Does
>anyone play a _pure_ Kensai?
I do, but that's because I'm a frustrated Japan-o-phile (okay, okay, I made the
word up- I'm too lazy to look up what the appropriate word would be) who has
looked forward to seeing a legitimate Oriental character class in ANY CRPG ever
since I first got into CRPG's. Also, seeing as I love playing kensai's or
kensai-type character in PNP RPG's, I was not about to dilute that experience
by dual classing him at all.
> I just realized that kensai's are not limited to swords and katanas, which
>is great because I'm planning on a character that can hopefully dual-wield
>Crom Fayer plus another weapon (flail/longsword/katana?). Comments on
>effectiveness welcome.
Personally, I'd never play a kensai who uses anything other than a katana
(okay, maybe one who uses katanas and hand-to-hand, but that's it), but that's
just me. I just love the style of that particular character concept. I do
think, though, that your combo is probably best. The blunt weapons have the
greatest range of effectiveness (no penalties, while some monsters are
virtually immune to sharp objects), though if you're looking strictly for
damage potential and skill, I'd specialize in just one weapon type. Putting
all your proficiencies into one weapon, as opposed to two, means you'll reach
maximum effectiveness much quicker (in fact, you can't actually get five stars
in two weapons, along with three in the two-weapon proficiency).
Maybe putting everything into a particular blunt weapon category and using two
hammers (or whatever else) would be "best." One thing I do know is that the
best katana in the game isn't quite as good insofar as +'s go, as the best
hammer or the best mace (I think). Still, for me, playing a kensai isn't all
about power- it's about style, and what's the point to playing a kensai who
uses something other than a katana? That's like having Conan the Barbarian in
your game and making him into a mage- just NOT part of the image.
> I'm also wondering how a pure kensai with the above strategy would fair
>against another fighter kit (or plain fighter), also with dual-wield and
>warhammer/longsword proficiency. Er... I don't mean in a combat against
>one another, I mean how they compare in effectiveness in the game.
Oh god... This reminds me that I promised a couple people some time ago that
I'd prepare a spreadsheet comparing the various classes, insofar as fighting
effectiveness was concerned. Haven't yet gotten it completed, although I did
put in a bit more work on it last weekend. The research/calculations involved
are pretty massively huge (comparing THAC0's to proficiency levels, with weapon
bonuses thrown in, compared to average damage ranges/levels/armor classes of
various enemies, with consideration for each and every level for the various
"fighting type" classes, discounting variations for strength, is rather an
immense undertaking).
I'll get it eventually, though.
Waldo
Jan Sacharuk
> It feels like 95% of the kensai posts I've read refer to a dual-class
>Kensai/Mage, with the other 5% talking about Kensai/Thief or or dual. Does
>anyone play a _pure_ Kensai?
I'm playing with a pure Kensai. He's the joy of my party. With a STR
of 19 (naturally! Half-orcs are great!), and his kensai bonuses, he
does a *lot* of damage with his swords. I have him dual weilding
Celestial Fury and Blackrazor. He's a total force to be reckoned with,
all on his own, and he's level 13 or 14 (I can't remember right
now. How embarrassing.) I'll actually have him patrol the dungeons by
himself, most times, and only run one or two other characters up if I
really need to.
> I just realized that kensai's are not limited to swords and katanas, which
>is great because I'm planning on a character that can hopefully dual-wield
>Crom Fayer plus another weapon (flail/longsword/katana?). Comments on
>effectiveness welcome.
I'm sure it would work great. With a Katana and a Longsword, you've
got a fairly bad-ass character already. With Crom Faeyr, he'd be even
more ridiculously powerful.
> I'm also wondering how a pure kensai with the above strategy would fair
>against another fighter kit (or plain fighter), also with dual-wield and
>warhammer/longsword proficiency. Er... I don't mean in a combat against
>one another, I mean how they compare in effectiveness in the game.
I used to have trouble with mages. My Kensai with the boots of speed,
his two swords, some protective rings (did I mention that the
combination of his equipment allows him to regenerate 1hp/sec?) and
the cloak of mirroring is a Mage killer extrordinaire.
> I realize Kensai/mage is the end-all, but I don't particularly care to play
>one. Thanks.
The pure Kensai is a hoot. I highly recommend it. In fact, a party of
just Kensai would probably be a blast. Just have one of them dual to
thief, and you're set.
JS
--
====================== j...@cs.ualberta.ca ======================
Jan Sacharuk President, Undergraduate Association of CS @ UofA
Turn on viewing of the X-Geek-Code header to see my Geek Code
----------------------------------------------------------------
"Surviving is instinct.
Living takes guts. "
- Lance Armstrong
Daniel James
and something else, Giant killer or something does it for me and maybe later
the Crom. Kensai's are cool pure )
Spliced <geer...@bfs.cs.colorado.edu> schreef in berichtnieuws
3a09...@cs.colorado.edu...
> It feels like 95% of the kensai posts I've read refer to a dual-class
> Kensai/Mage, with the other 5% talking about Kensai/Thief or or dual. Does
> anyone play a _pure_ Kensai?
>
which
> is great because I'm planning on a character that can hopefully dual-wield
> Crom Fayer plus another weapon (flail/longsword/katana?). Comments on
> effectiveness welcome.
>
> against another fighter kit (or plain fighter), also with dual-wield and
> warhammer/longsword proficiency. Er... I don't mean in a combat against
> one another, I mean how they compare in effectiveness in the game.
>
Rob Bagnall
Fylla & Sprit
> Oh god... This reminds me that I promised a couple people some time
ago that
> I'd prepare a spreadsheet comparing the various classes, insofar as
fighting
> effectiveness was concerned. Haven't yet gotten it completed,
although I did
> put in a bit more work on it last weekend. The research/calculations
involved
> are pretty massively huge (comparing THAC0's to proficiency levels,
with weapon
> bonuses thrown in, compared to average damage ranges/levels/armor
classes of
> various enemies, with consideration for each and every level for the
various
> "fighting type" classes, discounting variations for strength, is
rather an
> immense undertaking).
>
> I'll get it eventually, though.
> Waldo
>
My experince is that a good saving throw (Korgan: breath = 1, all the
others have negative values) is better than a good magic resistance
(Viconia: 70%).
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
James Prieels
geer...@bfs.cs.colorado.edu (Spliced) wrote:
> It feels like 95% of the kensai posts I've read refer to a dual-
class
> Kensai/Mage, with the other 5% talking about Kensai/Thief or or dual.
Does
> anyone play a _pure_ Kensai?
Much of the debate was actually started through Atlus Seven's post on
the pure Kensai. Run a search for 'Kensai Synopsis' in this ng and
you'll find it.
Cheers,
James
Christian Seitz
> I'm also wondering how a pure kensai with the above strategy would fair
> against another fighter kit (or plain fighter), also with dual-wield and
> warhammer/longsword proficiency. Er... I don't mean in a combat against
> one another, I mean how they compare in effectiveness in the game.
Theres is one problem with the kensai. He can't use any type armor, barcers
and gauntlets. His AC will ber crap compared to other fighter type with
out spells. I have a Kensai/Mage and a Berserker/Cleric. The Berserker is
MUCH more effective because he can reach a much better AC and receives
extra immunities from his kit and items the kensai can't use.
Christian Seitz
Waldoou812
>it reduces the purity of weapon skill they are trying to master....
>
You're absolutely right, from the perspective of the old 1st edition AD&D
Oriental Adventures. However, the OA kensai was also <way> more powerful -
immunity to fear, whirlwind attacks, AC bonuses as they gained level, ability
to cause fear, etc. Not to mention that (and this is the most important
insofar as BGII is concerned) they were also able to affect creatures normally
affected only by +1, +2, or +3 weapons as they got higher in levels (just like
the monk's ability in BGII).
It appears that Bioware decided the undiluted kensai was too powerful for the
game and toned him down extensively, and gave part of his abilities to the monk
class.
Thus the need for the BGII kensai to be able to use magical weapons, which
caused the kensai to become more powerful. Screwy.
I believe they should have left the kensai alone and implemented him exactly as
listed in OA, but then again, I also think characters should be able to learn
martial arts in this game as well (another part of OA which was completely
ignored).
Waldo
MVanker
Jan Sacharuk heeft geschreven in bericht ...
>In article <3a09...@cs.colorado.edu>, Spliced wrote:
>> It feels like 95% of the kensai posts I've read refer to a dual-class
>>Kensai/Mage, with the other 5% talking about Kensai/Thief or or dual. Does
>>anyone play a _pure_ Kensai?
>
>I'm playing with a pure Kensai. He's the joy of my party. With a STR
>of 19 (naturally! Half-orcs are great!), and his kensai bonuses, he
>does a *lot* of damage with his swords. I have him dual weilding
>Celestial Fury and Blackrazor. He's a total force to be reckoned with,
hmmm, blackrazor at level 13, 14, isn't that the sword you gain (or have to
give up) in the very endgame????
Pure Kensai is great, even when you don't cheat......
Greets, MVanker
Doug Stanley
Ridiculous. If you want better AC for a Kensai, just cast Spirit Armor
on him. Combined with his natural -2 AC bonus his overall AC easily
matches any other character class.... but that's just for starters-
Cast Stoneksin, Mirror Image, Protect from Magical Weapons, Spell Trap,
etc. etc. and you'll start to see just how invincible a Kensai/Mage is.
Atlus Seven
>Much of the debate was actually started through Atlus Seven's post on
>the pure Kensai. Run a search for 'Kensai Synopsis' in this ng and
>you'll find it.
I started a debate on this matter? Would you happen to know the name of the
thread? I'd like to partake in it if possible. And with soooooooo many new
and continuing threads on this board, as well as other's habit of changing the
name of the thread, I find it difficult to keep continuity when it comes to
long threads. Any help would be appreciated. =D
Smooth like Reggie Miller in an airborne freeze-frame......
....Funky like the Kung-Fu that can put you to shame. =D
Christian Seitz
> Ridiculous. If you want better AC for a Kensai, just cast Spirit Armor
> on him. Combined with his natural -2 AC bonus his overall AC easily
> matches any other character class.... but that's just for starters-
> Cast Stoneksin, Mirror Image, Protect from Magical Weapons, Spell Trap,
> etc. etc. and you'll start to see just how invincible a Kensai/Mage is.
Not ridiculous. Magic Items can't be dispelled and have an infinite duration.
A Berserker/Mage, Berserker/Cleric,Ranger/Cleric doesn't need those spells to
be invincible. My Berserker/Cleric killed almost anything alone without
resting.
Christian Seitz
Spliced
Christian Seitz <se...@krick.com> wrote:
>
>Not ridiculous. Magic Items can't be dispelled and have an infinite duration.
>A Berserker/Mage, Berserker/Cleric,Ranger/Cleric doesn't need those spells to
>be invincible. My Berserker/Cleric killed almost anything alone without
>resting.
>
>Christian Seitz
What is a good point to dual from berserker to cleric? And is this really
a worthwhile thing to do, when there are several clerics in the game already?
I'm curious how you set your party up so you weren't too terribly cleric-heavy.
Thanks!
PS - Yes, I sent you email the other day and if it didn't bounce when you
replied, then it got lost... sheesh ;)
djarvinen
geer...@bfs.cs.colorado.edu (Spliced) wrote:
> What is a good point to dual from berserker to cleric? And is this
really
> a worthwhile thing to do, when there are several clerics in the game
already?
> I'm curious how you set your party up so you weren't too terribly
cleric-heavy.
> Thanks!
I have often run parties without Clerics. The irritating part is when
you have to rest for 16 days to heal all wounds (ala Icewind Dale). If
you want to avoid that problem, you can always get a Paladin or a Cleric
dual or multi-class character.
My current party in BG2 is:
Archer (me)
Yoshima (pure best thief... well, OK bounty hunter but still not dualed
or multi-classed)
Korgan - (pure best fighter; others are Rangers or dual/multi-classed
except for Mazzy; I like Mazzy a lot but in this group I needed a Tank)
Edwin - (pure best mage)
Aerie - heh-heh; needed someone for Identify, Clairvoyance, Haste plus
she's an OK cleric; ((insert sexist remark here about my group having
Aerie follow them around))
I could have picked up Viconia (best Cleric) but then I wouldn't get the
little extra mageling spells I like. Plus I wanted the interaction
between Aerie and the Lawful Evil types. Not many interactions but
those that exist are good. Last night she got into a pissy mood with
Korgan and he said *STOP READING IF YOU DON'T WANT MINOR
DIALOGUE SPOILER* that he was going to put her over his lap and spank
her so that at least he'd have something to do while she was babbling.
:)
--
"Those are my principles. And if you don't like those, I have others."
---Grouch Marx
Christian Seitz
> In article <seitz-10110...@seitz.krick.com>,
> Christian Seitz <se...@krick.com> wrote:
> >
> >Not ridiculous. Magic Items can't be dispelled and have an infinite duration.
> >A Berserker/Mage, Berserker/Cleric,Ranger/Cleric doesn't need those
spells to
> >be invincible. My Berserker/Cleric killed almost anything alone without
> >resting.
> >
> >Christian Seitz
>
>
> What is a good point to dual from berserker to cleric? And is this really
> a worthwhile thing to do, when there are several clerics in the game already?
> I'm curious how you set your party up so you weren't too terribly
cleric-heavy.
> Thanks!
It is always nice to have a good fighter and spellcaster in the party. A cleric
heavy party gets many heals spells which are nice in areas with nasty random
encounters.
Christian Seitz