ToB-Too Difficult for many players? Possible Spoilers
Great Hierophant
battles of ToB are of truly "nightmare" difficulty. Draconis, Sendai,
Balthazar, and Melissan are very difficult battles, requiring a true mastery
of BG II's magic system, combat techniques, and party endurance. Even I
could not defeat Sendai without 4 out of 6 characters dying. It took me a
newsgroup post and maybe even a bug, not sure, to kill Draconis. Balthazar
can destroy your party without assistance, and I also had luck with me
before he could heal himself. I haven't even figured out how to damage
Melissan, never mind deal with her powerful compatriots. These battles make
Jon's final battle in hell seem reasonable by comparison. (Of course, this
fight made the Sarevok battle in BG I quite reasonable. Remind me to
explain a surefire way to beat Sarevok easily.)
So, is Throne of Bhall too difficult for average players? The Watcher's
Keep Dungeon isn't too bad, although I would recommend waiting unil
beginning the expansion before tackling it. (Thank god you can avoid having
to fight demogorgon.)The most notable aspect of the expansion I will
remember is the many tough battles. Throne of Bhall is very much like a
hard version of Icewind Dale, where X number of monsters stand between you
and the end, and you have to account for 95% and all the tough ones in order
to beat the game. I think that many BG II gods will think that the
expansion is a moderate challenge, but for many players, the challenge may
keep them from finishing the game.
Your thoughts?
NightRaVeN
I am on a monty haul mission In the BG series. I care not who i have to slay
in order to get the loot i deserve. It's mine.. mine mine! i tell you!!!!!!
:-)
Elminster Slayer /\ NightRaVeN
"Great Hierophant" <great_hi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:krXZ6.11291$3d3.8...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
CCF
> So, is Throne of Bhall too difficult for average players? The Watcher's
> Keep Dungeon isn't too bad, although I would recommend waiting unil
> beginning the expansion before tackling it. (Thank god you can avoid having
> to fight demogorgon.)The most notable aspect of the expansion I will
> remember is the many tough battles. Throne of Bhall is very much like a
> hard version of Icewind Dale, where X number of monsters stand between you
> and the end, and you have to account for 95% and all the tough ones in order
> to beat the game. I think that many BG II gods will think that the
> expansion is a moderate challenge, but for many players, the challenge may
> keep them from finishing the game.
>
> Your thoughts?
There is a challnege issue and there is also a feel issue to things at this
level. You are basically god-like but you don't feel like it alot of the time.
A lot of this is the AD&D system where it seems to me (after BG, BG2, IWD) that
combat is at its best when your characters are between 6-12th level. Yoou are
past the one hit kills of the 1-3 levels and before the insane challenges of the
very high level characters. I don't know if this is representative of the PnP
version or just the computer versions. Here are my reasons that some people
own't finish- and in some cases it is observational nd not hypothesis.
First, the number of high level mages roaming about is silly (was there some
general event on the Forgotten Realsm that leveled all mages up to 18?) and I'll
bet these are the things that most players don't cope with well based on
watching a ccouple of folks play the game. The designers overpowered mages by
allowing continegncies. The effect being that every mage throws up a magic
shield, mantle and protection from nromal missles when you see him. This was
troublesome with sub 18th level mages but the uber-mages that now know time stop
get to be a real bitch. They throw out the timestop before you can breach them
and start interupting their spells (and this is using a wand of breaching or
whatevere it is called). Once you are time stopped and they can throw the moon
at you things get ugly- especially if they know imprison. Myabe some folks find
these mage battles interesting. They really bore me becuase there is a clear
"pattern" you run when you see a mage but I know 2 folks who stopped BG2
becuase of the liches seemed unbeatable.
The flip side of this is that your mages are basically the no-fun crowd. Since
everything you fight has magic resistince or some sort of spell turning your
mages most frequently acessed spells are likely: remove magic, breech, spell
thrust, lower resistance, etc.....This is not the stuff of myth and legend. It
get old very fast watching other mages wreak havoc on your party and being
helpess for your 25th level mages to do much in return. My wife dropped a mage
as her character because she got tired of not being able to use any cool killer
spells on the bigger bad guys.
Second, it doesn't seem that one on one your PC's are a match for NPC's. As
jacked up and high level as my folks were (27th lvl monk as an example) one on
one in the Hive Mother battle my monk was getting mauled by one of the foes
(name escapes me) one on one. You need to gang up on foes to do them in which
doesn't seem too heroic- escpeially when I know from looting their corpses I had
better weapons and armour. I actually don't know if AC means anything. Aomen has
my best AC at -11 and he seems to absorb a lot more damage than anyone else in
the front lines who all have lower AC's than he does.
Third, the number of high level foes you see cuts away from the feeling that you
are somethign special. Heck, everyone is 18th level or better it seems like so
why are my characters so special? You don't get a lot of wading hip-deep in gore
through your fallen foes battles where you feel like the stuff of Thomas
Mallory. It is bad that the time I feel like the biggest bad-ass is when Aomen
blows up vampires and devil shades.
Fourth, the way you do win these fights is by using things that just plain flat
out seem cheap. The greater whirlwind attack (whihc my monk can pull of 3 times
per day now) is silly- 10 attacks? Ditto Minsc. To me that takes away from the
game. Worse is that I love the real time combat but when you have to have a
potion every 3 seconds, use a special power every 2 seconds and be pouring out
spells all the time, the game turns itno a bizzare effort in stop-motion
animation when the scroll at the bottom reads:
Misc Drinks Potion
Paused
Unpaused
Jan Casts Dispell Magic
Paused
Unpaused
Jaheria is Confused
Pause
Unpaused
Brother Baskerville does 34 poitns of damange to Hive Mother
Imoen casts Spellstrike
Pause
...and so on. I think folks find that both frustrating and boring.
R. Cohen
I agree so far. Even monsters that "were" easy in BG2 seem harder for
the expansion! My party which was "quite" capable at the end of BG2
is having their butt kicked pretty regularly. Two swats from the
fire giants and my characters are crying in pain! Thank God, my
priest is well versed in the ressurection spell since it seems to be a
pretty regular occurrance. It definitely seems to be appropriate as
the final chapter!
TwinIon
not a problem (accept constant complaints), you should get people like :-
Keldorn, Sarevok, Viconia, Edwin, Minsc, Valygar, LG Anomen, Nalia and Imoen.
They are quite powerful in their primary roles.
Secondly, you need to know the mechanics of magic fight. Usually, upon seeing
you, the enemy mage will cast protection spells. These falls into 3
categories: illusion, magic protection and combat protection.
Get rid of illusion first (Keldorn is good in this department) using true
sight. Follow by combat protection with Breach so that your fighters can move
in and then magic protection with whatever is appropriate (I usually use ruby
ray which removes one layer but all type of protection).
The only exception is when enemy mage has spell trap, immunity from abjuration
or spell turning. Then you would want to get rid of magic protection before
getting ride of combat protection.
In a typical combat, you have to so several times (average about three) so
always remember enough spells to do that. I typicallu have 4 breach spells
memorised and up to 8 if it is magic heavy.
Ideally, you want to have 3 tanks, 1 fighter/healer and 2 spell casters. The
job of the spell caster is to enhance defence of the group, remove enemy
protections and clear out numerous but low level enemies. (a lot of these in
ToB). Plus summon the big guns when the going gets tough. (You'd want to do
that especially against bosses)
I'd say like all games, once you know the rules, it will be pretty easy. And
if you stumble around blindly, of course you will get smacked in the head all
the time.
One example is the Demogorgon. I didn't know lower magic resistance has little
effect on him. And I foolishly tried to pound him with spells. In the end, I
re-memorised and summon devas and plenatars instead and get spells to buff
them up. And I was surprised how fast the demo prince fell facing angels and
elemental princes.
In article <krXZ6.11291$3d3.8...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, "Great
JWB
me. It was on my "must buy" list when it was announced (I loved BG2), but,
after being disappointed with the IWD expansion, I decided to hold off and
see what others had to say.
I don't think high-level characters translate well into computer gaming,
because the only real "challenge" the DM (computer) can throw at you is
insane hit points, and high level magic protection time and time again. In
other words, they feel like they *must* make it a difficult challenge, just
like you were first level.
When I played PnP, when we got to insane levels (18+), the DM would have us
get involved in something like a war between the city we called home and the
neighboring orc/giant alliance (another huge city - not the strongholds that
lower level characters would face). We got to use those ubar spells on the
battlefield to great effect, and our high level fighters pulled "Mel Gibson
in Braveheart" moves, cutting down row after row of enemies and still
standing at the end. Then, we invaded the "evil" city. The fighters walked
right in, mowed down the opposition, and the mages ended up turning the city
to smoldering rubble. In other words, we were the biggest bad-asses in our
DM's world, and we got to play like that.
A great life or death challenge? No. Not really. But great fun in using our
high level toys? You bet! After a few adventures like that, we then retired
the characters.
I was hoping, for once, a CRPG game would let your high level characters
indeed be the toughest SOB's in the land, without seeing the need to make
every encounter a life and death struggle. It doesn't have to be a constant
struggle to be fun. I'm all for a challenge, but if I have to cast the right
combination of "anti protection" spells time and time again, I'll pass.
--
JWB
Remove spamkiller to reply via e-mail
"CCF" <c...@sprintmail.com> wrote in message
news:3B388E2C...@sprintmail.com...
Darrell
> One example is the Demogorgon. I didn't know lower magic resistance has little
> effect on him. And I foolishly tried to pound him with spells. In the end, I
> re-memorised and summon devas and plenatars instead and get spells to buff
> them up. And I was surprised how fast the demo prince fell facing angels and
> elemental princes.
LR has no affect on him and his MR is high, it seems. My typical strategy
with high level foes in my mage heavy party is time stop, improved alacrity
and then 4 or 5 lower resistances. With the Robe of Vecna, they take no
time to cast at all.
Of course, his resistance isn't lowered, and he ignores time stops. So
I am sitting there wasting my time with useless spells while he is pounding
frozen in time Minsc and frozen in time Keldorn to jello.
The tactic that worked best for me was have Keldorn and Minsc whirlwind
attack him while my spellcasters focused on the demons he summons. I came
oh-so close several times, but my decision to focus on mages (I don't
even have a cleric, which might have been useful) doomed me.
Eventually, I just had Jan (who was only in my party because he
steals a certain someone's something) put about 6 spike traps where
Demigorgon appeard. There is nothing more cheesy, but I am only
going to play through once I wanted to see what happened...
Darrell
Dave
(snip much true comments)
Dude, your comments were right on! I got bored fast toward the
end of BG2 because every mage had contingency, and you had to
throw everything you had at him to bring him down. Then guess
what...10 paces down the dungeon hall there's another uber
mage. Got to the point where you had to rest after every
battle just to memorize spells for the next baddie just out of
"camera" range. And you're totally right about mage characters
being less fun; they're so busy bring the other mage's
defenses down that you can't have any fun blasting them.
I agree...where did all these 18th+ level wizards come from?
I wasn't originally planning on getting ToB since I knew I'd
be frustrated with the mage use in the expansion like I was in
BG2, but the dearth of RPGs sent me out to get it. So far,
every mage I've come across has gone through the same routine
of contingency protection spells and Time Stop.
Geesh...
- Dave
-----------== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ==----------
http://www.newsfeeds.com The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!
------== Over 73,000 Newsgroups - Including Dedicated Binaries Servers ==-----
Olaf
the real-time round hole are highlighted in ToB.
There are two basic types of combat in ToB. The kind where your guys just
massacre hoardes of relatively low level beasts. The combat engine and
weak AI handle this pretty well. The second type of combat gives the
engine, and its weak AI, fits. I am talking about combat involving enemy
casters who use triggers and contigencies with defensive spells.
The game must be paused constantly to adjust to these uber enemies, because
left on their own, your guys will be slaughtered. They will pound on
someone all day long, meanwhile screaming out 'I need a bigger sword.' or
some such shit. So, you have to step in.
Pause. Make sure a True sight is up, get one up if it isnt. Or, wait for
a True-Sight that is already up to cancel the defensive illusion (this is
annoying). Scroll back up through the combat spam and see what defenses
are up on your target. Cast the requisite counterspell. Resume.
Inevitably, the enemy will have one of his many contigencies triggered or
throw off another spell trigger. So, you have to repeat the above.
Meanwhile, using melee abilities when the enemies defenses are down, and
sucking down potions when they arent. BTW, a great expansion spell for
priests would have been a heal spell that was fast casting, and didnt
require the caster to walk over to the target.
Anyway, I love the game and am having a lot of fun with it, but, you must
understand how to defeat spell defenses to succeed in ToB, and not everyone
will find that easy or fun to do.
olaf
Westley Weimer
> On normal settings and above, there can be no denying that some of the
> battles of ToB are of truly "nightmare" difficulty. Draconis, Sendai,
I just completed my first game of ToB ("difficult=1.5damage" setting). It
was tought, but that was good.
> Balthazar, and Melissan are very difficult battles, requiring a true
> mastery of BG II's magic system, combat techniques, and party endurance.
Huzzah! Solo characters can beat BGII spoiled on impossible with very few
saves. It didn't have the difficulty adjustment of ToB (modulo undead
groups and golem groups). I was quite happy that ToB required thought and
planning.
> Even I could not defeat Sendai without 4 out of 6 characters dying. It
> took me a newsgroup post and maybe even a bug, not sure, to kill
> Draconis.
Draconis was lovely. Talk about having to restructure your tactics. I was
quite used to just running in with all of my characters attacking monsters.
This fails horribly in many spots in ToB. I had to evolve to an intelligent
use of summoned monsters to defeat him.
> Balthazar can destroy your party without assistance, and I also had luck
> with me
Interestingly, he was the easiest fight in the game for me. My tanks killed
him in one round before he did anything. What happens if you are slower? He
Palms you?
> before he could heal himself. I haven't even figured out how to damage
> Melissan, never mind deal with her powerful compatriots.
Hint for Melissan Part 1: The Flail of Ages +5 will do 2 points of damage
to her and possibly slow her.
> fight made the Sarevok battle in BG I quite reasonable. Remind me to
> explain a surefire way to beat Sarevok easily.)
Arrows of Detonation?
> So, is Throne of Bhall too difficult for average players?
If so, lower the difficulty level. If you read the text carefully, the
"standard" difficulty level actually gives you +6 Luck or something in ToB
(check it out).
> hard version of Icewind Dale, where X number of monsters stand between
> you and the end, and you have to account for 95% and all the tough ones
I thought that the "you against an army" motif that appears quite a few
times in ToB (i.e., the whole map is littered with enemies and you just
walk through it slicing them) wasn't bad. What else are they going to do
for level 30 characters? And the big solo opponents were mighty.
- Wes
Olaf
olaf
TwinIon <twi...@myhome.now> wrote in message
news:9ha4um$36u$5...@dosa.alt.net...
Kurt
news:GS0_6.11214$l5.94...@newsfeed1.thebiz.net:
> your comments, and that of the OP, are making me think this game isn't
> for me. It was on my "must buy" list when it was announced (I loved
> BG2), but, after being disappointed with the IWD expansion, I decided
> to hold off and see what others had to say.
>
> I don't think high-level characters translate well into computer
> gaming, because the only real "challenge" the DM (computer) can throw
> at you is insane hit points, and high level magic protection time and
> time again. In other words, they feel like they *must* make it a
> difficult challenge, just like you were first level.
It's kind of an impossible challenge for BG developpers, since if they did
it that way, everybody would say there is no challenge and no fun... :-D
No, you're right, high level doesn't work for AD&D, since you reach a point
when you just don't have anything left to do (Kill this and that god?
Transform hell in your own backyard?). The only sensible thing to do is to
retire that kind of overgrown PCs.
> When I played PnP, when we got to insane levels (18+), the DM would
> have us get involved in something like a war between the city we called
> home and the neighboring orc/giant alliance (another huge city - not
> the strongholds that lower level characters would face). We got to use
> those ubar spells on the battlefield to great effect, and our high
> level fighters pulled "Mel Gibson in Braveheart" moves, cutting down
> row after row of enemies and still standing at the end. Then, we
> invaded the "evil" city. The fighters walked right in, mowed down the
> opposition, and the mages ended up turning the city to smoldering
> rubble. In other words, we were the biggest bad-asses in our DM's
> world, and we got to play like that.
Yes, that's what Gygax told the DMs in their manual (at least in the 1st
edition).
> A great life or death challenge? No. Not really. But great fun in using
> our high level toys? You bet! After a few adventures like that, we then
> retired the characters.
>
> I was hoping, for once, a CRPG game would let your high level
> characters indeed be the toughest SOB's in the land, without seeing the
> need to make every encounter a life and death struggle. It doesn't have
> to be a constant struggle to be fun. I'm all for a challenge, but if I
> have to cast the right combination of "anti protection" spells time and
> time again, I'll pass. --
> JWB
Get Shadow Keeper (or any editor), hack your party up to the cap and try to
play for a while: At most ten minutes later you'll fail your saving throw
vs mortal boredom. Computers can't simulate that kind of game; Let's say BG
developpers would do the same thing your DM did: ToB would end being a RTS!
And where would be the fun? Diluted in managing your armies, anticipating
enemy moves, etc. Only a human DM can give you the feeling you actually
want: Being invincible, but challenged. The computer can only actually make
your invincible, and there won't be anything left to do if he does.
PS: There is a neverending thread about "ideal" (C)RPGs up there named
"BG2: Intelligence" (yes, the thread has drifted a little).
Stefan Kalgraf
> Keep Dungeon isn't too bad, although I would recommend waiting unil
> beginning the expansion before tackling it. (Thank god you can avoid
having
> to fight demogorgon.)The most notable aspect of the expansion I will
> remember is the many tough battles. Throne of Bhall is very much like a
> hard version of Icewind Dale, where X number of monsters stand between you
> and the end, and you have to account for 95% and all the tough ones in
order
> to beat the game. I think that many BG II gods will think that the
> expansion is a moderate challenge, but for many players, the challenge may
> keep them from finishing the game.
>
> Your thoughts?
you may be right...at the very least I think the expansion was balanced with
the uber-items like crom faeyr and celestial fury in mind. Of course, since
I used the "start new character in ToB" option I had to do without them (you
don't even get the holy avenger as a paladin! The monk was the only really
viable character.)
Still, I'm satisfied with it...the feel was different from BG2 but I liked
IWD as well, so no real problem.
Adrian Jackson
>There is a challnege issue and there is also a feel issue to things at this
>level. You are basically god-like but you don't feel like it alot of the time.
This has been my big problem with the expansion (the BG series,
actually) from the get-go. The very first couple of fights seem just
about right, but when I hit my first dungeon fight (against a foe
named, quite impressively, "fighter"), my jaw hit the floor. There my
character was--supposedly the most powerful of the son of a god,
dual-weilding two munchkin weapons (Celestial Fury and Blackrazor)
with four attacks per round, sporting a -10 AC, and he CAN'T BEAT A
NAMELESS GUARD!!! Not alone, at least. I had to gang up on him with
Minsc and Keldorn (wielding the Silver Sword and Carsomyr,
respectively) to stand a chance! WTFH?!
And that scenario just keeps repeating itself. It really did ruin the
story. Every time yet another NPC starts up with the "You're the most
powerful of the Bhaalspawn, blah blah blah, straddling the world with
your power, blah blah blah," I'm saying, "Huh?!" My main character is
level 23 now, and last night an ICE SALAMANDER (!!!) nearly took him
out in 1-on-1 combat. Yeah, what GrEaT PoWeRzZZ he wields. We won't
even get into the clusterfuck that was the Abazigal fight.
Honestly, though, the whole "son of a god" plot line has always been
flimsy. I mean, come on! You start out BG1 playing a dog! "Fetch my
sword, boy! Fetch my scroll! Come on! You can do it!" Kobold
Commandos make mincemeat of you! Some god-child. The plot is
supposed to be epic, it's supposed to center around your character and
make the player feel special, but I gotta say, mission NOT
accomplished.
That doesn't keep parts of the game from being great fun, it just
means the supporting story makes no sense in light of the reality of
the game.
>A lot of this is the AD&D system where it seems to me (after BG, BG2, IWD) that
>combat is at its best when your characters are between 6-12th level. Yoou are
>past the one hit kills of the 1-3 levels and before the insane challenges of the
>very high level characters. I don't know if this is representative of the PnP
>version or just the computer versions. Here are my reasons that some people
>own't finish- and in some cases it is observational nd not hypothesis.
I think Pool of Radiance (the original) still stands as one of the
best AD&D hack and slashers ever made, and it was basically a 1st-8th
level game. So I don't think it's the AD&D system so much. I quite
often felt larger-than-life in PoR: mowing down small armies of
kobolds and orcs, particularly with things like the fighter's "sweep"
ability and the then-notorious fireball spell. Ohh, the PoR fireball
spell! You were some kind of mini-god after getting that spell in
PoR. In BG, though, it was next to worthless!
>First, the number of high level mages roaming about is silly (was there some
>general event on the Forgotten Realsm that leveled all mages up to 18?) and I'll
>bet these are the things that most players don't cope with well based on
>watching a ccouple of folks play the game. The designers overpowered mages by
>allowing continegncies. The effect being that every mage throws up a magic
>shield, mantle and protection from nromal missles when you see him. This was
>troublesome with sub 18th level mages but the uber-mages that now know time stop
>get to be a real bitch. They throw out the timestop before you can breach them
>and start interupting their spells (and this is using a wand of breaching or
>whatevere it is called). Once you are time stopped and they can throw the moon
>at you things get ugly- especially if they know imprison. Myabe some folks find
>these mage battles interesting. They really bore me becuase there is a clear
>"pattern" you run when you see a mage but I know 2 folks who stopped BG2
>becuase of the liches seemed unbeatable.
I saw on some web board one of the designers basically say something
like, "If we don't let the wizards insta-cast those contingencies,
they'd never get to cast anything!" Well no shit! That's rather the
reason for having a well-prepared party with lots of missile weapons,
isn't it? Apparently, in the Infinity Engine you either have helpless
wizards who never get to cast anything, or wizards who cheat and "just
happen" to have the perfect assortment of spells fully memorized right
when they need them, and who can rip off contingency after contingency
instantaneously, no matter how many attacks they're under. Surely
there's some middle ground, there?
>The flip side of this is that your mages are basically the no-fun crowd. Since
>everything you fight has magic resistince or some sort of spell turning your
>mages most frequently acessed spells are likely: remove magic, breech, spell
>thrust, lower resistance, etc.....This is not the stuff of myth and legend. It
>get old very fast watching other mages wreak havoc on your party and being
>helpess for your 25th level mages to do much in return. My wife dropped a mage
>as her character because she got tired of not being able to use any cool killer
>spells on the bigger bad guys.
Not to mention most baddies worth slinging those cool spells at are
practically immune to them.
>Second, it doesn't seem that one on one your PC's are a match for NPC's. As
>jacked up and high level as my folks were (27th lvl monk as an example) one on
>one in the Hive Mother battle my monk was getting mauled by one of the foes
>(name escapes me) one on one.
The Hive Mother is 75% resistant to all magic and elemental attacks,
and 50% resistant to all physical attacks. This is in addition to
having 180 hit points.
>You need to gang up on foes to do them in which
>doesn't seem too heroic- escpeially when I know from looting their corpses I had
>better weapons and armour. I actually don't know if AC means anything. Aomen has
>my best AC at -11 and he seems to absorb a lot more damage than anyone else in
>the front lines who all have lower AC's than he does.
Most of the stuff you fight in ToB has a negative THAC0, meaning that,
yeah, AC is more or less meaningless.
>Third, the number of high level foes you see cuts away from the feeling that you
>are somethign special. Heck, everyone is 18th level or better it seems like so
>why are my characters so special? You don't get a lot of wading hip-deep in gore
>through your fallen foes battles where you feel like the stuff of Thomas
>Mallory. It is bad that the time I feel like the biggest bad-ass is when Aomen
>blows up vampires and devil shades.
And they're all walking around with +3 weapons and +3 armor. There's
obviously a factory somewhere in the Forgotten Realms churning out
these people. :)
>Fourth, the way you do win these fights is by using things that just plain flat
>out seem cheap. The greater whirlwind attack (whihc my monk can pull of 3 times
>per day now) is silly- 10 attacks?
I found the whirlwind attack to be totally useless, myself. Maybe I'm
missing something, but I could swear I've sat and watched it run out
before 10 attacks were even MADE.
>Ditto Minsc. To me that takes away from the
>game.
My first thought was that the ToB designers have been playing way too
much Diablo 2. :)
>Worse is that I love the real time combat but when you have to have a
>potion every 3 seconds, use a special power every 2 seconds and be pouring out
>spells all the time, the game turns itno a bizzare effort in stop-motion
>animation when the scroll at the bottom reads:
Personally, I think the game would run a lot smoother being
turn-based, tile-based, but then I guess it "wouldn't sell well
enough." :)
JWB
traslate to computers very well. Not for a long adventure, anyway (would be
fun for awhile to kill 20 orcs with a fireball on a battlefield, though ;)
*sigh*... I guess I won't be buying TOB, as the one thing I really hated
about BG2 was the mage protections vs. breaches time after time. It got to
the point where my mages were almost soley used to take down the protections
of other mages.
I'll just go through bg2 again with a different party (all female this time,
as one poster suggested awhile back)
--
JWB
Remove spamkiller to reply via e-mail
"Kurt" <a@b.c> wrote in message
news:663_6.21939$cw.11...@monolith.news.easynet.net...
dan_s
>
> I agree...where did all these 18th+ level wizards come from?
> I wasn't originally planning on getting ToB since I knew I'd
> be frustrated with the mage use in the expansion like I was in
> BG2, but the dearth of RPGs sent me out to get it. So far,
> every mage I've come across has gone through the same routine
> of contingency protection spells and Time Stop.
>
> Geesh...
>
> - Dave
>
It would be nice if high-level, expansion pack RPG's showed a bit of
respect for your characters. If you've saved the world once or twice,
you should get:
* free brews in the pub purchased by grateful shopkeepers
* hordes of minotaurs and like running in panic at your arrival
* the town crier announcing that the legends have arrived
* a least one encounter with 50+ goblins where you're unlikely to take
1 point of damage
The "normals" shouldn't disappear altogether just because they can't
challenge you anymore. A little ego-stroking would go a long ways
toward believable high-level characters. It seems to me that this is
a squandered advantage of single-player over massively multiplayer
games -- you don't have to see a million other "legendary heroes"
crawling all over the landscape. Coming soon: "You're a Jedi Knight
too?!?"
I agree on the "auto-protection" spell layers thing. If you just
hacked them out of existence, though, would the whole combat engine be
compromised in favor of magic?
William
(snip)
> First, the number of high level mages roaming about is silly (was there some
> general event on the Forgotten Realsm that leveled all mages up to 18?) and I'll
> bet these are the things that most players don't cope with well based on
> watching a ccouple of folks play the game. The designers overpowered mages by
> allowing continegncies. The effect being that every mage throws up a magic
> shield, mantle and protection from nromal missles when you see him. This was
> troublesome with sub 18th level mages but the uber-mages that now know time stop
> get to be a real bitch. They throw out the timestop before you can breach them
> and start interupting their spells (and this is using a wand of breaching or
> whatevere it is called). Once you are time stopped and they can throw the moon
> at you things get ugly- especially if they know imprison. Myabe some folks find
> these mage battles interesting. They really bore me becuase there is a clear
> "pattern" you run when you see a mage but I know 2 folks who stopped BG2
> becuase of the liches seemed unbeatable.
It's not just the mages, either. Pretty much everything you fight
seems to have been powered up quite a bit. When I was in Sendai's
dungeon, initially she wasn't concerned about my intrusion and sent
her slaves to fight me. Well, the Duregar slaves with their crossbows
were easily hitting my -6 to -10 AC's. I took a beating trying to get
through there. This could have been played so much better - after your
high level characters cut through the slaves with ease, then Sendai
could have decided it was time to get serious and deployed the tougher
defenses.
Things like this were all over the place in ToB. I couldn't get
through the fire giant dungeon without guzzling healing potions like a
madman. The mages, as you mentioned, were all very annoying. Even when
you fought orcs, they'd been powered up to the point where they were
able to damage your 20+ level party. This is just silly. What's the
point of having a badass party when everything you meet is just as
badass as you are, if not more so? I mean, come on Bioware. I
appreciate the fact that you're trying to make the game a challenge,
but you've taken all the fun out of having a high-level AD&D party. In
all the stories about epic heroes that I've read, I don't remember
seeing them having to gulp down healing potions constantly or having
to rest and recover strength after every fight.
saint
wrote:
>I'll just go through bg2 again with a different party (all female this time,
>as one poster suggested awhile back)
My Boston based Monk with Jaheira, Mazzy, Nalia, Viconia, and Imoen.
PAAARRRTTTTAAAAYYY!!!
I kick ass for the lahd.
R. Cohen
Yes, it's tough being a child of Baal and still get your butt kicked
by an Orc!
I agree with everything that's said here, but what do you do with the
last installment of a 3 game adventure? If it was too easy, people
would CERTAINLY be complaining about that as well.
Part of the problem is that games like Diablo and Might and Magic have
developed their games so that continual advancement is part of the
excitement of playing. And it's true, that's one reason I like those
games.
But certain games would be better where advancing occurred at a less
frantic pace and I think the BG series is one of those games.
In addition, the "best" solution would be for the game to "tune"
itself to the abilities of the party, so that the monsters are "hard"
but not insane. I thought they did that already actually.
I commented about the fire giants already. It was very hard, but I
did survive the quest. evolve or die!
CCF
> he flip side of this is that your mages are basically the no-fun crowd. Since
> >everything you fight has magic resistince or some sort of spell turning your
> >mages most frequently acessed spells are likely: remove magic, breech, spell
> >thrust, lower resistance, etc.....This is not the stuff of myth and legend. It
> >get old very fast watching other mages wreak havoc on your party and being
> >helpess for your 25th level mages to do much in return. My wife dropped a mage
> >as her character because she got tired of not being able to use any cool killer
> >spells on the bigger bad guys.
>
> Not to mention most baddies worth slinging those cool spells at are
> practically immune to them.
God does that tick me off too. I can't lower resistance on a whole host of drow so my
mages basically got to sit out large swaths of time in BG2 and have now revisted that
feeling in TOB.
Jason McCullough
Um, as far as dealing with Mages with tons of protection spells:
that's what they make Secret Word and the like for. I never had a
problem with the mages, really, as I can just stack up a ton of Pierce
Magic/Lower Resistance and then go to town on pretty much anything.
I can see how it'd be a problem if you only had a single mage in your
party, but it's still doable.
Jason McCullough
blortkar...@yahoo.com
Remove "blort" from the front of my email address to contact me.
Brian H.
my BG2 sessions, besides the standard breaching magical defenses tactic, I
often use offensive area-damage spells tactics. Basically all those spell
protections & combat protections spells are useless to defend area effect
spells that are *NOT* targeted for the spell casters. So usually I will
target a fighter or simply an empty spot with some area effects spells that
harm the mages nearby as well. Some of the examples are:
Ice Storm
Fire Storm
Insect Plague
Creeping Doom
Emotion: Hopelessness
Chaos
Alba-Dazim's Horrid Wilting
Cloudkill
Domination (dominate a fighter to whack his nearby mage)
Chain lightning
Cone of Cold
Power word: Silence (Good for those mages that have their magical defenses
dispelled; Can you imagine those stupid mages start to walk to whack you
once they can't cast spells?)
And many many others...
Actually the combat in BG2 can be more than "standard". We just have to use
a little bit imagination.
TwinIon <twi...@myhome.now> wrote in message
news:9ha4um$36u$5...@dosa.alt.net...
k a
line-of-site issues during combat. In other words, strategy regarding
placement of your characters isn't really well-implemented, so the battles
degenerate into tons of spellcasting.
Ian Montgomerie
<great_hi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
*SPOILERS*
>On normal settings and above, there can be no denying that some of the
>battles of ToB are of truly "nightmare" difficulty. Draconis, Sendai,
>Balthazar, and Melissan are very difficult battles, requiring a true mastery
>of BG II's magic system, combat techniques, and party endurance. Even I
>could not defeat Sendai without 4 out of 6 characters dying. It took me a
>newsgroup post and maybe even a bug, not sure, to kill Draconis.
<snip enemies I haven't fought yet>
>So, is Throne of Bhall too difficult for average players? The Watcher's
>Keep Dungeon isn't too bad, although I would recommend waiting unil
>beginning the expansion before tackling it.
Personally, I have found Throne of Bhaal relatively easy except for a
small number of very hard battles (playing on Insane difficulty, with
3 PCs and 3 NPCs with main char a Kensai-Mage so somewhat more
powerful than the average party). Doing Watcher's Keep right at the
beginning with a bit over 3 million experience a person, the whole
dungeon pretty much struck me as darn easy until the very bottom. I
usually didn't even have to bother with buffing spells, or reload much
unless I was really careless. Encountering the dragon on level 4, I
hadn't expected to fight a dragon at all and was largely un-buffed,
but I whupped his ass first try. With the demilich, as soon as I saw
him I ran back out of the room - just long enough to cast Spell
Immunity: Abjuration on two of my guys, equip +5 weapons, then go in
and beat on him. Unlike the SoA demilich he actually cast
imprisonment at all my guys, and three of them were imprisoned - but I
didn't give a shit because it just took a rest to memorize a freedom
spell.
The only difficult parts were the battles at the Level 5 seal, and
Demogorgon himself. With the beholder battle, I had to reload a
couple times because one or more of my characters would keep getting
perma-killed in the battle (a big risk when playing on Insane due to
the very high monster damage per hit). Demogorgon was tough, but he
falls easily to cheap tactics - use Project Image to summon and haste
Planetars without using up your own spells, for example. Because he
and his buds don't really use dispels or ranged attacks, you can focus
all your magical power on a few super-tanked-up fighters, using
everyone else for combat assistance - like keeping up the endless
string of Improved-Hasted Planetars and lesser summoned creatures.
Sendai didn't give me much trouble, although it took a couple tries to
learn not to leave my spellcasters at the mercy of the summoned Drow
alone (hasted Planetar to the rescue). My fighters would just run
around with their boots of speed smashing every statue, aided by
constant Dispels and True Sight from the Inquisitor.
Draconis was friggin annoying. Especially so because I killed him on
my very first, un-buffed try using nothing but a head on fighter
attack, but he gibbed my PC at the instant of his death. Shite. He
was annoying on Insane simply because he does so much damage in a
single hit that he regularly perma-kills characters, meaning a reload
rather than a resurrect. I killed him several times using the
ridiculous Timestop + Improved Alacrity + Robe of Vecna combo, but he
would always seem to live long enough to permakill someone. Finally I
just went all out and memorized a spell list suitably to kick his
dragon ass (especially including chain contingencies, contingencies,
spell triggers, and spell sequencers on my two mages).
Fun Fact #1: Although monk fists are considered magical weapons for
the purpose of not being able to damage Magic Golems, they go through
Protection from Magic Weapons just fine.
Fun Fact #2: Carsomyr also either penetrates said spell, or has a darn
good chance of dispelling it within a couple of hits.
Fun Fact #3: Draconis does annoyingly "dispel your buffs" as some
people have said, but this effect seems to be a normal Dispel Magic
cast at a high level, NOT some kind of super dispel-everything effect.
With my ~30th level casters, I soon figured out that if I cast a lot
of buffs most of them would survive. In particular my Mass
Invisibility spell would always seem to remain.
Fun Fact #4: A little known 5th level wizard spell gives immunity to
acid attacks (Protection from Acid). Although in my case Draconis
didn't tend to use his breath weapon unless the fight had gone on too
long anyway. If you follow a fighter-based strategy, Time Stop is
still a great way to get time to run around and re-buff your party...
Ian Montgomerie
>First, the number of high level mages roaming about is silly (was there some
>general event on the Forgotten Realsm that leveled all mages up to 18?) and I'll
>bet these are the things that most players don't cope with well based on
>watching a ccouple of folks play the game. The designers overpowered mages by
>allowing continegncies. The effect being that every mage throws up a magic
>shield, mantle and protection from nromal missles when you see him. This was
>troublesome with sub 18th level mages but the uber-mages that now know time stop
>get to be a real bitch. They throw out the timestop before you can breach them
>and start interupting their spells (and this is using a wand of breaching or
>whatevere it is called).
The real secret to these guys is having an Inquisitor. Mine was a
truly excellent anti-mage tool, especially since his first Dispel or
True Sight fires off instantly, removing protections just as fast as
they were thrown up.
>The flip side of this is that your mages are basically the no-fun crowd. Since
>everything you fight has magic resistince or some sort of spell turning your
>mages most frequently acessed spells are likely: remove magic, breech, spell
>thrust, lower resistance, etc...
Actually my mages most frequently use buffs on my fighters (helps that
one is a fighter himself). At high levels, there frankly aren't that
many good general damage-dealing spells except Abi Dalzim's (and Comet
when you get it). I find my mages aren't that effective as bulk
damage-dealers, so magic resistance doesn't bother me so much. I
mean, screw magic resistance, so many of the high-level baddies pretty
much always make their saves that even if you take down their
resistance, you'd need to throw in a bunch of Greater Malisons too or
a lot of your spells are simply useless.
>Second, it doesn't seem that one on one your PC's are a match for NPC's. As
>jacked up and high level as my folks were (27th lvl monk as an example) one on
>one in the Hive Mother battle my monk was getting mauled by one of the foes
>(name escapes me) one on one.
Hm. That hasn't really happened to me, even allowing for the fact
that I'm playing on Insane and thus the enemies have a 2 to 1 damage
head start, and even if you don't count throwing in a Greater
Whirlwind or Critical Strike. (And if you don't throw in the
Kensai/Mage with Stoneskin, Protection from Magic Weapons, and
Tenser's Transformation). My fighters seem able to go toe to toe with
high level human fighters.
>You need to gang up on foes to do them in which
>doesn't seem too heroic- escpeially when I know from looting their corpses I had
>better weapons and armour. I actually don't know if AC means anything. Aomen has
>my best AC at -11 and he seems to absorb a lot more damage than anyone else in
>the front lines who all have lower AC's than he does.
Problem at this level is that enemies probably mostly have THAC0s in
the -5 to -10 range, so they can hit a majority of the time even if
your AC is -15.
>Third, the number of high level foes you see cuts away from the feeling that you
>are somethign special. Heck, everyone is 18th level or better it seems like so
>why are my characters so special? You don't get a lot of wading hip-deep in gore
>through your fallen foes battles where you feel like the stuff of Thomas
>Mallory.
There are some, though. The whole Sendai level, with the cutscenes
highlighting how you are cutting through wave after wave of defenses,
is pretty good in that regard.
Ian Montgomerie
>I saw on some web board one of the designers basically say something
>like, "If we don't let the wizards insta-cast those contingencies,
>they'd never get to cast anything!" Well no shit! That's rather the
>reason for having a well-prepared party with lots of missile weapons,
>isn't it? Apparently, in the Infinity Engine you either have helpless
>wizards who never get to cast anything, or wizards who cheat and "just
>happen" to have the perfect assortment of spells fully memorized right
>when they need them, and who can rip off contingency after contingency
>instantaneously, no matter how many attacks they're under. Surely
>there's some middle ground, there?
Actually, if anything high level mages are much easier in BG2/ToB than
they are in PnP AD&D (if portrayed well). In BG2 you get to fight
them one on one or with a few pals, and they hang around to get their
ass whupped. In "reality" such beings would have even more defenses,
plus well developed abilities to escape in order to avoid defeat.
They also wouldn't be surprised and have to rely on contingencies when
you come around the corner 5 feet away from them.
>Not to mention most baddies worth slinging those cool spells at are
>practically immune to them.
Demogorgon is particularly annoying in this respect. He doesn't
actually deal much damage, but he is virtually immune to magic and
regenerates mega-fast. (Contrast to Draconis, who is annoying mostly
because of a "feature" of the engine - true sight re-dispels illusions
every round rather than being constantly active, so you can lose the
ability to target him every time he goes invisible).
I think one issue with the BG engine/setup is that because a lot of
people are playing at 640x480 and because having a lot of stuff going
on can make things pretty choppy, there is a very strong tendency to
have fights with small numbers of enemies, who are just kind of
sitting around. However much story might have been almost absent from
Icewind Dale, its enemies were often larger in number but less
munchkiny powerful individually, and tactically well placed rather
than relying on strange combinations of magical and physical
protections.
My "ideal" infinity engine RPG would combine Icewind Dale's better
tactical setups and larger enemy numbers, Baldur's Gate's large and
diverse world with lots of options and NPC interactions, and Torment's
grand unifying storyline.
That is one thing about the BG games, in a lot of ways they are more
subquest than anything else; the subquests have the cool interactions
and there are tons of them. The main line story is often somewhat
thin on the ground... especially in at least the middle stages of ToB,
where you are basically sent around to kill X, Y, and Z. And where it
is frigging you against the world... there are barely any powerful
NPCs or NPC agencies to even offer guidance, let alone assistance.
Bob Tokyo
"Ian Montgomerie" <i...@ianmontgomerie.com> wrote in message
news:gqqijtk2ra0s5rp4b...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 13:25:39 GMT, CCF <c...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
> >Second, it doesn't seem that one on one your PC's are a match for NPC's.
As
> >jacked up and high level as my folks were (27th lvl monk as an example)
one on
> >one in the Hive Mother battle my monk was getting mauled by one of the
foes
> >(name escapes me) one on one.
>
> Hm. That hasn't really happened to me, even allowing for the fact
> that I'm playing on Insane and thus the enemies have a 2 to 1 damage
> head start, and even if you don't count throwing in a Greater
> Whirlwind or Critical Strike. (And if you don't throw in the
> Kensai/Mage with Stoneskin, Protection from Magic Weapons, and
> Tenser's Transformation). My fighters seem able to go toe to toe with
> high level human fighters.
I tend to agree here. My R/C was able to take on gangs of enemies by
himself once buffed, and only needed NPC backup if his buffs were being
dispelled and when facing attacks (wing buffets) that can render you
unconscious no matter how buffed you are. It comes down to playing
strategy. In TOB the single super-tank works very well; the rest of the
party becomes a spell reservoir and emergency medical team.
TwinIon
attacked? Kinda nice....felt very much like in the movie where one or two hits
kills the enemy.
In article <b0sijtcrt9tt7bgp6...@4ax.com>, Ian Montgomerie
Adrian Jackson
>Didn't you get that in Sendai and Amkerath? Where hordes of low level enemies
>attacked? Kinda nice....felt very much like in the movie where one or two hits
>kills the enemy.
Plus the "endurance challenge" (the one with all the hobgoblins). I
really liked those parts--they were much more fitting with the
character the storyline said I was supposed to be playing. There was
a clear distinction between the foozles and the fodder that way--a
distinction not there when everything walking the globe is level 20 or
above. :)
Kurt
news:9f5_6.11226$l5.94...@newsfeed1.thebiz.net:
> yup, you are correct. My experience of the high level campaign would
> not traslate to computers very well. Not for a long adventure, anyway
> (would be fun for awhile to kill 20 orcs with a fireball on a
> battlefield, though ;)
>
> *sigh*... I guess I won't be buying TOB, as the one thing I really
> hated about BG2 was the mage protections vs. breaches time after time.
> It got to the point where my mages were almost soley used to take down
> the protections of other mages.
>
> I'll just go through bg2 again with a different party (all female this
> time, as one poster suggested awhile back)
>
I've bought it nevertheless; I just enjoy the developper's imagination.
I know I'll have to memorize lots of spell sequencers and contigencies with
tons of breach and consorts, but what the heck, I want to see the end...
Kurt
news:9hbjt5$rko$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net:
Computer character's tactics are kind of moronic in BG, that's true; But
anyway AD&D isn't made for characters that powerfull.
In a linear universe like AD&D there is (should be) an upper limit to
player advancement. If you go past that limit you become the most powerfull
entity in the universe. And what then? Nothing left to do. Who would you
fight against? Why bother?
Adrian Jackson
<i...@ianmontgomerie.com> wrote:
>Actually, if anything high level mages are much easier in BG2/ToB than
>they are in PnP AD&D (if portrayed well). In BG2 you get to fight
>them one on one or with a few pals, and they hang around to get their
>ass whupped. In "reality" such beings would have even more defenses,
>plus well developed abilities to escape in order to avoid defeat.
>They also wouldn't be surprised and have to rely on contingencies when
>you come around the corner 5 feet away from them.
True. The showdown with Sendai came pretty close to what I'd expect
of a high-level wizard (even though she was a priest, I think). The
Maelvon (SP?) fight in IWD was pretty good too. I sure as hell
wouldn't want to go through that for EVERY wizard I ran into, though!
>>Not to mention most baddies worth slinging those cool spells at are
>>practically immune to them.
>
>Demogorgon is particularly annoying in this respect. He doesn't
>actually deal much damage, but he is virtually immune to magic and
>regenerates mega-fast. (Contrast to Draconis, who is annoying mostly
>because of a "feature" of the engine - true sight re-dispels illusions
>every round rather than being constantly active, so you can lose the
>ability to target him every time he goes invisible).
Yeah, the intermittent true sight thing got me a couple of times
too--usually with enemy thieves. The implementation is really funky.
I remember reading something from the devs a while back to the effect
of, "If we don't give thieves invisibility or undetectable hide in
shadows, they'd never get to backstab!" So maybe the quirkiness isn't
completely accidental.
>I think one issue with the BG engine/setup is that because a lot of
>people are playing at 640x480 and because having a lot of stuff going
>on can make things pretty choppy, there is a very strong tendency to
>have fights with small numbers of enemies, who are just kind of
>sitting around. However much story might have been almost absent from
>Icewind Dale, its enemies were often larger in number but less
>munchkiny powerful individually, and tactically well placed rather
>than relying on strange combinations of magical and physical
>protections.
Yeah, I definitely enjoyed the battles in IWD more than any of the BG
games. A lot of it was the story-line: in IWD you have a party of
regular ol' mortal-born adventurers. You'd expect such a party to
have a rough time out in the world of magic and monsters. Plus, the
orchestration of the fights, particularly in the elven tower, helped
explain the difficulty.
In the BG series, though, you're NOT in control of a mere adventurer.
You're in control of the offspring of a god--the god of killing stuff,
no less! As a toddler he should be able to cleave through hordes of
fire giants with his pacifier! At nine years he should be lacing his
shoes with the eyestalks of beholders he's scared to death! At
eighteen he should be beating up ancient red dragons for their lunch
money! He's the son of the god of murder, after all! He should be
eating Terrasques and crapping +10 vorpal swords!
Okay, so maybe that's overstated, but you expect more from the son of
a diety.
>My "ideal" infinity engine RPG would combine Icewind Dale's better
>tactical setups and larger enemy numbers, Baldur's Gate's large and
>diverse world with lots of options and NPC interactions, and Torment's
>grand unifying storyline.
That'd be great, indeed!
>That is one thing about the BG games, in a lot of ways they are more
>subquest than anything else; the subquests have the cool interactions
>and there are tons of them. The main line story is often somewhat
>thin on the ground... especially in at least the middle stages of ToB,
>where you are basically sent around to kill X, Y, and Z. And where it
>is frigging you against the world... there are barely any powerful
>NPCs or NPC agencies to even offer guidance, let alone assistance.
It's nice to have some subquests in a game where the main plot is
long. They're a good diversion--something fresh for the mind while
still enjoying the same game. With the BG games, though, like you
say, most of the game is IN those subquests, and the main plot is
pretty short. So if you're just interested in following the main
story, you're going to miss out on a lot of the game. There's a weird
kind of obligation to ignore the main plot as long as possible for
that reason.
I prefer to have a long and cohesive main plot with little to no
emphasis on subquests, personally. That way the subquests are just
that--subquests--optional. Something you can do if you're tired of
the main plot.
TwinIon
to be rear guard while your spellcasters throwing fireball left, right and
center.
"Oh you want some? *fireball*....Oh you too? *fireball*..." nice....:)
Yet, it is still challenging enough that I had to summon a few skeleton
warriors to guard my mages.
So in fact, there 4 or so occasions where you have to fight the mid-level
hordes.
Sendai's slaves or spiders, sendai's drow, endurance test in WK and the monks
in Amkerath....Oh my GOD! The monks! ....Keldorn was "quivering palmed" to
death on one hit...... :(
In article <fbgkjtco134e25dms...@4ax.com>, Adrian Jackson
Adrian Jackson
>Hell yeah, it's so movie like...fighters hacking away a path. Some stayed back
>to be rear guard while your spellcasters throwing fireball left, right and
>center.
>
>"Oh you want some? *fireball*....Oh you too? *fireball*..." nice....:)
Hehe. I think my system started to slow down during the Sendai slave
fight with all the gibblets flying everywhere. It was great!
>Yet, it is still challenging enough that I had to summon a few skeleton
>warriors to guard my mages.
Ah yes, protecting the mages. That seems to be one of the major
challenges in ToB as a whole. Trying to figure out how to get them
out of combat, and STAY out of combat. :)
>So in fact, there 4 or so occasions where you have to fight the mid-level
>hordes.
>
>Sendai's slaves or spiders, sendai's drow, endurance test in WK and the monks
>in Amkerath....Oh my GOD! The monks! ....Keldorn was "quivering palmed" to
>death on one hit...... :(
Speaking of getting killed, in my game, poor Minsc gave his life to
the cause a second time facing Sendai's spider boss. I don't know for
sure what happened, just that one second he had ~150 HP, and the next
he was dead. The beastie must have had instakill poison I guess.
Andreas Baus
> On Thu, 28 Jun 2001 05:53:39 GMT, twi...@myhome.now (TwinIon) wrote:
>>Yet, it is still challenging enough that I had to summon a few skeleton
>>warriors to guard my mages.
> Ah yes, protecting the mages. That seems to be one of the major
> challenges in ToB as a whole. Trying to figure out how to get them
> out of combat, and STAY out of combat. :)
Hell, yeah, especially with the game so often placing your party in the
*worst* possible tactical position, at those times when a cutscene (where
your chars are placed by the game engine) leads up to an inevitable fight -
and then there you are with your mages in the front row and your fighters
having to climb over their heads to get to the enemy and such things...
I *hate* that...
>>Sendai's slaves or spiders, sendai's drow, endurance test in WK and the monks
>>in Amkerath....Oh my GOD! The monks! ....Keldorn was "quivering palmed" to
>>death on one hit...... :(
> Speaking of getting killed, in my game, poor Minsc gave his life to
> the cause a second time facing Sendai's spider boss. I don't know for
> sure what happened, just that one second he had ~150 HP, and the next
> he was dead. The beastie must have had instakill poison I guess.
Fighting the red dragon in the Watchers Keep I got a pretty sudden game
over, too, when the Dragon (who already was at 'near dead' at the time, and
therefore probably in his last death throes) burped up one last giant
fireball breath, hitting my main PC square in the face - and of course the
lucky bastard rolled up just enough damage to insta-kill him from full
health, because just in that moment he failed his saving roll (which was
about 2 or 3!)
Bugger!
--
----
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
[Insert joke here.] ----
--
an...@studcs.uni-sb.de (Andreas Baus)
Tom Tweedy
<an...@cip123.studcs.uni-sb.de> writes
>In comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg Adrian Jackson <n...@spam.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 Jun 2001 05:53:39 GMT, twi...@myhome.now (TwinIon) wrote:
>
>>>Yet, it is still challenging enough that I had to summon a few skeleton
>>>warriors to guard my mages.
>
>> Ah yes, protecting the mages. That seems to be one of the major
>> challenges in ToB as a whole. Trying to figure out how to get them
>> out of combat, and STAY out of combat. :)
>
>Hell, yeah, especially with the game so often placing your party in the
>*worst* possible tactical position, at those times when a cutscene (where
>your chars are placed by the game engine) leads up to an inevitable fight -
>and then there you are with your mages in the front row and your fighters
>having to climb over their heads to get to the enemy and such things...
>I *hate* that...
Why not give your mage the statue that can turn him/her into the blue
warrior for a couple of rounds? Two swords, all that armour?
Tom
--
Tom Tweedy
Diplomacy 2000: http://www.dip2000.org.uk
Fax [only in emergency] +44 (0)1494 581276
Tai Fong
specially for ToB from BG1 with Imoen, Minsc, and Jaheira recently --
a grand finale with all the old friends. Sigh, I guess I have to
retire them after reading comments on ToB. This game is not for me as
well. Been through BG1/totsc & BG2 four times each, I really hate the
pause and unpause and my mages were degenerated to spells removers...
what's so great about the new powerful spells when you don't even have
the chance to cast them?
So my own version of the ending: My Ranger/Priest decided to retire in
Umar Hills with the rest of the party. The village folks will
occasionally see Boo out in the wild playing with the squirels ...
On another note, I think anyone who wants to make their life easier in
BG2 or ToB should have Keldorn along -- the ultimate mage/lich
slayer.
Regards,
Tai Fong
"JWB" <jwbspamk...@excite.com> wrote in message news:<GS0_6.11214$l5.94...@newsfeed1.thebiz.net>...
> your comments, and that of the OP, are making me think this game isn't for
> me. It was on my "must buy" list when it was announced (I loved BG2), but,
> after being disappointed with the IWD expansion, I decided to hold off and
> see what others had to say.
>
> I don't think high-level characters translate well into computer gaming,
> because the only real "challenge" the DM (computer) can throw at you is
> insane hit points, and high level magic protection time and time again. In
> other words, they feel like they *must* make it a difficult challenge, just
> like you were first level.
>
> When I played PnP, when we got to insane levels (18+), the DM would have us
> get involved in something like a war between the city we called home and the
> neighboring orc/giant alliance (another huge city - not the strongholds that
> lower level characters would face). We got to use those ubar spells on the
> battlefield to great effect, and our high level fighters pulled "Mel Gibson
> in Braveheart" moves, cutting down row after row of enemies and still
> standing at the end. Then, we invaded the "evil" city. The fighters walked
> right in, mowed down the opposition, and the mages ended up turning the city
> to smoldering rubble. In other words, we were the biggest bad-asses in our
> DM's world, and we got to play like that.
>
> A great life or death challenge? No. Not really. But great fun in using our
> high level toys? You bet! After a few adventures like that, we then retired
> the characters.
>
> I was hoping, for once, a CRPG game would let your high level characters
> indeed be the toughest SOB's in the land, without seeing the need to make
> every encounter a life and death struggle. It doesn't have to be a constant
> struggle to be fun. I'm all for a challenge, but if I have to cast the right
> combination of "anti protection" spells time and time again, I'll pass.
> --
> JWB
>
Hong Ooi
<great_hi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[snippety-snip]
>
>Your thoughts?
>
I think someone's ego is writing checks his PC can't cash.
--
Hong Ooi | "I'm ready to go to Hell, but the Jaheira
hong...@maths.anu.edu.au | romance seems to have stopped."
http://www.zip.com.au/~hong | -- MM
Canberra, Australia |
JWB
after reading a few positive reviews, and, having some extra b-day $, I went
out and bought it.
I'm sort of surprised to say I actually am enjoying it, despite the fact
that a few of the battles are of the "lose, reload, memorize the 'right'
spell combination, rest, buff up, fight again" variety. Also, there's more
of a need to rest after many of the fights, as you blow 10 spells on prep,
10 on the fight, and then need to use "restore" and/or "raise dead"
afterwards.
But, despite that, it is a fun game. I used the new TOB shadowkeeper to make
my party a bit more powerful (as part of my reservation was that hey, you're
a 20th level son of a god - fire giants shouldn't be a problem).
On another note - playing TOB (with the constant save-reload) reminded me of
yet another reason Fallout is so highly regarded - i can remember playing
Fallout for *hours* without having to reload, but yet, never felt like
anything was too easy. I seriously doubt *anyone*, no matter how good, can
get through TOB without reloading quite often.
--
JWB
Remove spamkiller to reply via e-mail
"Tai Fong" <tff...@usa.net> wrote in message
news:3175a33f.0107...@posting.google.com...
Gunbuster
I would consider myself an average player in terms of skill, no newbee
at all I've been playing computer games since the age of 9 and I've
played pnp ad&d for a while.
I found the battles in TOB far too hard on normal level of difficulty,
I whats the point in a difficulty setting if the battles are so
insanely hard on normal. After all I buy an rpg for the story, a few
puzzles and some battles. However TOB often seems little more than
C&C/resource admin game, which hurts the story. BG1 was spot on as it
allowed you think about the battles, but the story and character
interaction to be the main focus. TOB saddened me because of the
amount of game system flaws I had to employ to even get simple battles
won (firing spells from out of sight [the black fog], running through
thin gaps so giants can't follow me, etc.).
If I wanted a hackmaster/spellmaster game I'd buy IWD or diablo2.
I just want a playable game that doesn't make it totally impossble
without cheating to win. All they had to do was have a skill setting
that truely represented a normal setting and have a BG fiend setting.
On Tue, 26 Jun 2001 08:09:52 GMT, "Great Hierophant"
<great_hi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On normal settings and above, there can be no denying that some of the
>battles of ToB are of truly "nightmare" difficulty. Draconis, Sendai,
>Balthazar, and Melissan are very difficult battles, requiring a true mastery
>of BG II's magic system, combat techniques, and party endurance. Even I
>could not defeat Sendai without 4 out of 6 characters dying. It took me a
>newsgroup post and maybe even a bug, not sure, to kill Draconis. Balthazar
>can destroy your party without assistance, and I also had luck with me
>before he could heal himself. I haven't even figured out how to damage
>Melissan, never mind deal with her powerful compatriots. These battles make
>Jon's final battle in hell seem reasonable by comparison. (Of course, this
>fight made the Sarevok battle in BG I quite reasonable. Remind me to
>explain a surefire way to beat Sarevok easily.)
>
>So, is Throne of Bhall too difficult for average players? The Watcher's
>Keep Dungeon isn't too bad, although I would recommend waiting unil
Brad Wardell
"Gunbuster" <bl...@blahh.com> wrote in message
news:3b43592a...@news.madasafish.com...
> Hi whole heartedly agree,
> I would consider myself an average player in terms of skill, no newbee
> at all I've been playing computer games since the age of 9 and I've
> played pnp ad&d for a while.
> I found the battles in TOB far too hard on normal level of difficulty,
> I whats the point in a difficulty setting if the battles are so
> insanely hard on normal. After all I buy an rpg for the story, a few
> puzzles and some battles. However TOB often seems little more than
> C&C/resource admin game, which hurts the story. BG1 was spot on as it
> allowed you think about the battles, but the story and character
> interaction to be the main focus. TOB saddened me because of the
> amount of game system flaws I had to employ to even get simple battles
> won (firing spells from out of sight [the black fog], running through
> thin gaps so giants can't follow me, etc.).
> If I wanted a hackmaster/spellmaster game I'd buy IWD or diablo2.
> I just want a playable game that doesn't make it totally impossble
> without cheating to win. All they had to do was have a skill setting
> that truely represented a normal setting and have a BG fiend setting.
>
I have to agree. I don't normally cheat and I was very saddended to have to
cheat to win the game. I had to set my character to have 20,000 hit points
in order to get through the final battle. And my party, I thought, was
pretty tough. My -14 AC Paladin was able to kick major butt up until that
last battle where it was just impossible. I couldn't even rest my party
between the sub-battles which I thought was absurd given how tough it was.
Not to mention the game flaws -- I can't control more than 5 summoned
creatures but the bad guy summoned a good dozen of them it seemed like at
once. Let me bring in a half dozen devas at once and I could have done
fine.
I was able to not cheat for all the battles but the last one (i.e. I didn't
even need to use cheese tactics) but the final battle, I simply started to
run out of breach spells and the constant stunning where my characters would
just sit there and be wiped out definitely made it ridiculously hard.
Without cheating (massively I might add -- I had to increase my level of
cheating several times because 5000 hitpoints just weren't enough), I could
not have finished TOB. And I've never had to cheat before on any of the BG
games.
Brad
Hong Ooi
wrote:
>
>I have to agree. I don't normally cheat and I was very saddended to have to
>cheat to win the game. I had to set my character to have 20,000 hit points
>in order to get through the final battle.
Was this the final battle only, or was it a recurring problem throughout
the game?
>And my party, I thought, was
>pretty tough. My -14 AC Paladin was able to kick major butt up until that
>last battle where it was just impossible.
Who was in the party?
>I couldn't even rest my party
>between the sub-battles which I thought was absurd given how tough it was.
I thought it was entirely logical.
>Not to mention the game flaws -- I can't control more than 5 summoned
>creatures but the bad guy summoned a good dozen of them it seemed like at
>once.
More, if you fight the battle her way. Don't fight the battle her way.
>
>I was able to not cheat for all the battles but the last one (i.e. I didn't
>even need to use cheese tactics) but the final battle, I simply started to
>run out of breach spells and the constant stunning where my characters would
>just sit there and be wiped out definitely made it ridiculously hard.
Chaotic Commands x6 helps tremendously. If you run out, use Wondrous Recall
to get them back.
R. Cohen
> Fighting the red dragon in the Watchers Keep I got a pretty sudden game
> over, too, when the Dragon (who already was at 'near dead' at the time, and
> therefore probably in his last death throes) burped up one last giant
> fireball breath, hitting my main PC square in the face - and of course the
> lucky bastard rolled up just enough damage to insta-kill him from full
> health, because just in that moment he failed his saving roll (which was
> about 2 or 3!)
> Bugger!
Actually the oddest thing happened to me with the Red Dragon, I was
fighting him in the "usual" manner when all of a sudden he dropped
dead!! I knew I was hurting him, but I didn't think I was hurting him
"that" badly. Maybe it was the multiple lower resistances I threw at
the dragon. Or I think Jaheria's creeping doom is more powerful then
I think. It effectively stops spell casting on the computers side and
it slowly but surely pounds away at the target...
I think initially TOB is quite the surprise, but you are also given
many new spells, skills and items to counteract the new, more
difficult levels,
Hong Ooi
>Actually the oddest thing happened to me with the Red Dragon, I was
>fighting him in the "usual" manner when all of a sudden he dropped
>dead!! I knew I was hurting him, but I didn't think I was hurting him
>"that" badly.
There are a few instakill weapons where every hit has a chance of dropping
the target, no matter how big it is. The vorpal sword comes to mind. Others
include the axe of unyielding +5 and the ravager halberd +6.
Andreas Mattern
> There are a few instakill weapons where every hit has a chance of dropping
> the target, no matter how big it is. The vorpal sword comes to mind. Others
> include the axe of unyielding +5 and the ravager halberd +6.
Interesting question I had been wondering about while we´re at insta-kills:
Will this work with the critical hit ability you can get as a fighter power?
Seems everyone is using whirlwinds but this seems *very* interesting if the
combination works. Has anyone tried it?
Andreas
KAZUA
balls. It would have been impossible had they not put the high-level
abilities in(USE THEM!). However, these abilities make everything much
easier. I mean Demogorgon, who is a lesser god, fell in two rounds to
two greater whirlwinds. The last battle, you can't possibly beat
without some high level abilities.
Hong Ooi
wrote:
>Hong Ooi <hong...@maths.anu.edu.au> wrote:
>> There are a few instakill weapons where every hit has a chance of dropping
>> the target, no matter how big it is. The vorpal sword comes to mind. Others
>> include the axe of unyielding +5 and the ravager halberd +6.
>
>Interesting question I had been wondering about while we´re at insta-kills:
>Will this work with the critical hit ability you can get as a fighter power?
Why not? None of the instakill abilities rely on critical hits.
R.Cohen
>
>On 5 Jul 2001 05:19:35 -0700, rlcc...@aol.com (R. Cohen) wrote:
>
>>Actually the oddest thing happened to me with the Red Dragon, I was
>>fighting him in the "usual" manner when all of a sudden he dropped
>>dead!! I knew I was hurting him, but I didn't think I was hurting him
>>"that" badly.
>
>There are a few instakill weapons where every hit has a chance of dropping
>the target, no matter how big it is. The vorpal sword comes to mind. Others
>include the axe of unyielding +5 and the ravager halberd +6.
>
>
Hmmm, none of those items were in my party, although my Paladin/Cavalier has
some bastard sword + 5 of recent acquistion. I think I was distracted making
sure that my Wizard was running like "hell" away from immediate danger to notice
that the Dragon was now face down in the dirt! I guess luck works well too! 8-)
I guess my point is that after getting surprised and initially "thrown" back on
my "heels" so to speak, there "are" plenty of new items and spells at your
disposal that still make it possible to "kick butt". At level 20 and up, one
"would" expect the challenges to be greater after all.
Thomas Dehn
"Gunbuster" <bl...@blahh.com> wrote:
> Hi whole heartedly agree,
> I would consider myself an average player in terms of skill, no newbee
> at all I've been playing computer games since the age of 9 and I've
> played pnp ad&d for a while.
> I found the battles in TOB far too hard on normal level of difficulty,
> I whats the point in a difficulty setting if the battles are so
> insanely hard on normal. After all I buy an rpg for the story, a few
> puzzles and some battles. However TOB often seems little more than
> C&C/resource admin game, which hurts the story. BG1 was spot on as it
> allowed you think about the battles, but the story and character
> interaction to be the main focus.
BG1 battles are way too easy. If you have a complete
party, you can walk right through every group of enemies
the game offers. I don't use scripts, I don't use
haste, I normally don't use wands, yet the only
real challenge is Drizz't.
Thomas
Mart
The problem here as I see it after playing PnP RPG's for years is that AD&D
just wasn't fun at high levels - your characters were just too powerful.
Enemies had to be ridiculously powerful to give you a challenge. 'Dieties &
DemiGods' even gave the stats of the divine powers - presumably so you could
fight them?!?
The ultimate PnP RPG for me was RuneQuset. As you advanced your ability to
dodge and parry attacks increased, but your HP always remained the same -
just like real life. Every time you went into a fight you knew that if you
let through that one lucky blow you were in trouble, so you always had to
use your head.
The DM didn't need to throw hordes of uber powerful at you to present an
element of risk. One of the original playtesters had his very experienced
character, Ruric Runespear, killed by a lowly trollkin (something similar to
a goblin) when he was concentrating on parrying the attacks of the huge
trolls accompanying it.
Now that game would have made the ideal basis for a CRPG.
Mart
Sarah J.
alt.games.baldurs-gate:
> I thought of end the saga with my Ranger/Priest whom I created
> specially for ToB from BG1 with Imoen, Minsc, and Jaheira recently
> -- a grand finale with all the old friends. Sigh, I guess I have to
> retire them after reading comments on ToB. This game is not for me
> as well.
Whoa there. :) Let me try to dispel this gloom and doom a bit. Hope
you don't mind a little rambling ...
Preface: I played through SoA with my kensai/mage (yes, one of
*those*) dualled at 9th level, Jaheira, Minsc, Keldorn, Aerie and
Yoshimo/Imoen. No uberparty, but definitely not weak, either. They did
have the advantage of starting the expansion with ~3.5 million EXP,
though, as I had hit the *ridiculously* low SoA cap by the end of
Chapter 5 (same situation as in BG1) and decided to put the game on
ice until I could get my hands on ToB.
Despite my normal "no mixed alignments" rule, I switched Minsc for
Sarevok because I was itching to hear big brother's dialog and because
my character considers it her responsibility to keep a very close eye
on him. He's very good, BTW (a big damage magnet, though) ... if you
lack good fighters, he's a damn fine solution. Spoiler below. [1]
My party is currently taking a vacation from the main plot, poking
around in Watcher's Keep. Up until now, there have been a few tough
spots but no cases of blatant and frustrating rule-breaking by the
enemies, and I'm just having a blast.
Do I hate enemies who blatantly break the rules, especially
spellcasters with multiple sequencers and contingencies? You BET! But
they are rare. So far, that is ... I hope I won't end up eating my
words. ;) I heard the final boss cheats like mad, but I sort of
expected that, anyway. Do I roll my eyes when NPCs tell me how special
and powerful I am, when in fact there are 18th+ level mages and magic
resistant supercritters around every corner? Again, yes. The power
level of the (normal, non-Bhaalspawn) opposition is rather ridiculous
and doesn't help the suspension of disbelief.
Do I love the game, anyway? Another firm yes. It's hard but rewarding,
and I love the whole Bhaalspawn concept. There are things that I would
change if I could, but isn't that always the case?
If you're getting stomped on, you can always decrease the difficulty
level or use somewhat "cheesy" tricks like Project Image/Simulacrum,
thief traps, etc. You can rest often and safely (in your pocket
plane). Healing potions (including the new superior healing potions)
are common as water, and if you take the good path, you'll also gain
an easily accessible and unlimited source of Cure Light Wounds before
too long (spoiler at the end of the post). [2]
Except for the occasional PI, I don't use "cheese", and I definitely
don't consider myself to be a pro, either ... but there's nothing
*wrong* with these tricks if they help you enjoy the game more.
> Been through BG1/totsc & BG2 four times each, I really hate the
> pause and unpause and my mages were degenerated to spells
> removers... what's so great about the new powerful spells when you
> don't even have the chance to cast them?
As a mage-lover, I have to admit that mages don't rock the living and
undead world as much as they did in SoA, but while there are a good
deal of magic resistant foes, mages *are* still useful for direct
damage-dealing purposes, and their planetars are awesome summons with
a *ton* of helpful spells.
If you want to create *real* magical carnage, pick Improved Alacrity
from the new high-level mage abilities. Wear the Robe of Vecna and the
Amulet of Power. Cast Time Stop. Cast Improved Alacrity. And then dish
out the Horrid Wiltings and Chain Lightnings like a cheetah on
steroids. Even Irenicus would be jealous. Sure, you can only do this
once per day, unless you use Project Image, but it is *very* sweet.
Your mage can single-handedly win major battles this way.
On the topic of removing enemy protections, here's a little spoiler:
ToB features so-called wands of spell striking, usable by mages and
bards. While these do not cast Spellstrike, they let you cast Breach
(against combat protections) and Pierce Magic (works on all spell
protections except Spell Trap), thus freeing up those spell slots for
other purposes. I have found four of these wands so far (each with 5-6
charges), so unless you use them on every piddly mage you meet, you
should (hopefully) have enough charges to get you through the really
tough battles.
And keep in mind that you often do not *have* to remove an enemy
spellcaster's protections. Area-effect spells, especially the
high-level ones, happily ignore those protections ... just don't aim
them directly at the mage. If the foe is magic resistant, you may have
a problem, but that's what those wands and melee types are for (or a
Spell Trigger with 3x Lower Resistance).
Here's an IMO really good though not yet complete guide to BG2 spells:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bwscript/files/DOCUMENTS/BGII%20Spells%20Reference/
And now for the SPOILERS (they may be common knowledge by now, but
better safe than sorry) ...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
[1] Re: Sarevok. He uses a unique kit called Deathbringer which allows
him to stun enemies now and then or inflict 200 damage in a single
blow. And it is even possible to change his alignment from CE to CG if
you pick the "right" lines in his conversations with the PC.
[2] After completing the second challenge in your planar stronghold
(and choosing the "good" lines in the previous conversation with the
solar who acts as your mentor), the challenge room changes into a
rather more pleasant setting, complete with pools that periodically
cast CLW on anyone standing in them. It's not much, but it's still
free and unlimited ... and you can hop back to the stronghold whenever
you want.
Cheers,
--
Kookie Jar's quote of the day:
"Beware of the blindness of those who would follow, and the damnable
lure of those who would lead."
- Tamoko, Baldur's Gate
Adrian Jackson
>If you're getting stomped on, you can always decrease the difficulty
>level or use somewhat "cheesy" tricks like Project Image/Simulacrum,
>thief traps, etc. You can rest often and safely (in your pocket
>plane). Healing potions (including the new superior healing potions)
>are common as water, and if you take the good path, you'll also gain
>an easily accessible and unlimited source of Cure Light Wounds before
>too long (spoiler at the end of the post). [2]
Really? Whenever I tried to go into the pocket plane before being
dragged there by the solar, I could never get back out again! I'd run
my party out the exit, the screen would fade out and stay dark for
about 10 seconds, and then fade in and they'd all still be standing
there in the doorway. Unfortunately, I completely lost control of the
game at that point--I couldn't interact with my party, I couldn't get
to the options menu, nothing. I could ALT-ENTER and get a windowed
version of the game that I could close, which was the only way to get
out. It was truly, truly annoying, because I'd be carrying around 5
or 10 upgrade "parts" for the imp, and I couldn't use them until I
killed the next foozle. And forget about resting anywhere (luckily, I
was playing a very magic-light party).
I wish I knew what I did so differently that caused that problem.
Both SoA and ToB were fresh, full installs, with no tampering (no
TeamBG add-ons, no bonus disc, not even any custom portraits or
sounds). And the pocket plane is the only place I had consistent,
repeatable problems.
The Scribe
>
> Tai Fong scrawled the following into the Great Almanac of
> alt.games.baldurs-gate:
>
> > I thought of end the saga with my Ranger/Priest whom I created
> > specially for ToB from BG1 with Imoen, Minsc, and Jaheira recently
> > -- a grand finale with all the old friends. Sigh, I guess I have to
> > retire them after reading comments on ToB. This game is not for me
> > as well.
>
>
> Despite my normal "no mixed alignments" rule, I switched Minsc for
> Sarevok because I was itching to hear big brother's dialog and because
> my character considers it her responsibility to keep a very close eye
> on him. He's very good, BTW (a big damage magnet, though) ... if you
> lack good fighters, he's a damn fine solution. Spoiler below. [1]
>
>
> [1] Re: Sarevok. He uses a unique kit called Deathbringer which allows
> him to stun enemies now and then or inflict 200 damage in a single
> blow. And it is even possible to change his alignment from CE to CG if
> you pick the "right" lines in his conversations with the PC.
>
Cool! Next game I run is going to have Saravok in the party.
Sarah J.
alt.games.baldurs-gate:
> Really? Whenever I tried to go into the pocket plane before being
> dragged there by the solar, I could never get back out again! I'd run
> my party out the exit, the screen would fade out and stay dark for
> about 10 seconds, and then fade in and they'd all still be standing
> there in the doorway.
Hmm. So far, the same happens in my game, but I *do* get teleported
out afterwards.
> Unfortunately, I completely lost control of the game at that
> point--I couldn't interact with my party, I couldn't get to the
> options menu, nothing. I could ALT-ENTER and get a windowed
> version of the game that I could close, which was the only way to
> get out. It was truly, truly annoying, because I'd be carrying
> around 5 or 10 upgrade "parts" for the imp, and I couldn't use them
> until I killed the next foozle. And forget about resting anywhere
> (luckily, I was playing a very magic-light party).
>
> I wish I knew what I did so differently that caused that problem.
> Both SoA and ToB were fresh, full installs, with no tampering (no
> TeamBG add-ons, no bonus disc, not even any custom portraits or
> sounds). And the pocket plane is the only place I had consistent,
> repeatable problems.
Now that's odd. When you exit the pocket plane, you should either be
automatically transported to the location you entered it from, or be
given a choice of several locations, depending on where in the game
you are. For ex, during the Yaga Shura quests, you can either hop to
back to Saradush, to the North Forest, to the location you came from,
or (I think) to Watcher's Keep. This choice is presented in the usual
dialog-style ... I hear dialog-related bugs occur with certain OS
(Win2K?), and the dev team has released a beta patch to deal with
these problems. It might fix yours as well.
Or maybe you should post this problem on the ToB Troubleshooting
forum.
http://feedback.blackisle.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi
--
Kookie Jar's quote of the day:
"When the going gets tough, someone hold my rodent."
- Minsc (and Boo), Baldur's Gate
Andreas Baus
Note that the insta-kill 'Vorpal Hit' property of those weapons does not
equal a critical hit, so, the other way around, a critical with one of
those weapons does not automatically mean an insta-kill. The chance for a
Vorpal Hit is rolled independently after scoring any hit on your opponent.
Also note that most of the powerful opponents (bosses) are immune to this
(you'll see the line 'Vorpal Hit' in the combat message window, and even
see that ghostly apparition effect, that presumably is supposed to
represent the life force of the opponent leavin his body upon dying this
way, but the opponent will stay alive)
Ecere Seluk
✅🔴▶️▶ Really Amazing ️You Can Try This ◀️◀️🔴✅
✅▶️▶️ CLICK HERE Full HD✅720p✅1080p✅4K✅
WATCH ✅💻📺📱👉https://co.fastmovies.org
ᗪOᗯᑎᒪOᗩᗪ ✅📺📱💻👉https://co.fastmovies.org
🔴WATCH>>ᗪOᗯᑎᒪOᗩᗪ>>LINK>👉https://co.fastmovies.org
✅WATCH>>ᗪOᗯᑎᒪOᗩᗪ>>LINK>👉https://co.fastmovies.org
💚WATCH>>ᗪOᗯᑎᒪOᗩᗪ>>LINK>👉https://co.fastmovies.org
🔴💚 Really Amazing ️You Can Try This💚ᗪOᗯᑎᒪOᗩᗪ LINK >👉https://co.fastmovies.org
🔴💚CLICK HERE Full HD✅720p✅1080p✅4K💚WATCH💚ᗪOᗯᑎᒪOᗩᗪ LINK >👉https://co.fastmovies.org