IWD 1/2 and NWN
John Salerno
enough if you enjoyed BG? I've heard that they are more hack'n'slash
than BG, but are they still pretty deep games?
Also, anyone play Temple of Elemental Evil and have opinions on that one?
Jonathan Ellis
"John Salerno" <johnjsa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:408aebe5$0$28918$61fe...@news.rcn.com...
> Just curious how you all think these compare to BG 1/2. Are they
similar
> enough if you enjoyed BG? I've heard that they are more hack'n'slash
> than BG, but are they still pretty deep games?
IWD 1 was a lot more hack-n-slash - in fact IMHO it was too much so,
because one ended up with situations where you quite literally had to
rest after each and every fight. (Especially when dealing with the
Barrow Wights, Drowned Ones and Wailing Virgins in the expansion set.)
This is bad because it means you end up resting two or even three
times in the day - one should not have to rest more than once every 24
hours.
(Baldurs Gate 1 and 2 cope with this by putting greater emphasis on
exploring and role-playing: while in some cases you may find yourself
with a fight that leaves you completely depleted, out of spells,
injured, fatigued and forced to rest once or even twice afterwards,
the chances are that there won't *be* more than one of those forced on
you within 24 game hours, whereas in IWD you know that the very next
fight is going to be just as bad.
In BG1 and BG2, generally if you have to rest, it's because of fatigue
due to being awake too long, or having been twice under the influence
of a Haste spell. In IWD, if you have to rest, it's because you have
to heal up after getting badly beaten up in the fight you had three
minutes after waking up (and are possibly fatigued after ONE haste
spell).
IWD2 - I just do *not* like the changed system of AD&D 3rd Edition. I
got bored halfway through Chapter 1. It also suffers from the same
problem of IWD1, of making the characters rest for 8 hours after 2
hours of activity because they get so badly beat up in those two
hours. Role-playing goes completely out the window.
Both IWD1 and IWD2 have a backstory of sorts, but I think both would
have been that much better if they had actually concentrated more on
role-play and less on the fights.
> Also, anyone play Temple of Elemental Evil and have opinions on that
one?
No. Have heard it's extremely buggy, and besides it uses AD&D 3rd
edition which I hate. For the same reason I have not played
Neverwinter Nights.
Jonathan.
Tag Plastic
<delurks> A few random opinions...
The IWD series is more combat, less story. You make all your characters
so there's no party interaction. If you like BG combat, you'll probably
like IWD1 combat, and the IWD1 story is stronger than IWD2 (though
that's not saying much), but weaker than BG. I've only played IWD1 once
with a duo, and Heart of Winter/Trials of the Luremaster installed.
Reasonably fun, but lacking variety in the higher level spells. IWD2 is
vaguely 3rd edition rules rather than vaguely second edition. Familiar
Infinity Engine kind of interface. Plot's ropey, but again, if you like
the tactical squad-based combat aspect it's good fun. I've got a cheesy
munched-out team hanging around in Heart of Fury mode - when I get the
urge to fling some delayed blast fireballs that's the game to load.
NWN is very different. You only have proper, fine control over your one
character, and control ranging from 'none' to 'crap' over any henchmen
you may or may not have. Henchmen interaction ranges from "none" to
"fantastic" depending on what module you are playing. Environments get
samey and a lot of people can't stand the graphics. The HS/Roleplay
level of the game, however, depends entirely on the module you are
playing. One of the main things about NWN is the toolset and (free!)
user (free!) created (free!) modules. Most are shite, but there are some
gems. nwvault.ign.com , hit modules. Many better than the official
campaign you get with base NWN. The two expansion campaigns are much
better. Rating NWN as HS/Roleplay is pretty meaningless - if someone
fancied making a courtly drama mod, they could, without a drop of blood
spilled. One of the best rated mods is an impressive hack implementing a
M:tG style card game. But the majority of user made content is "kill
things, take their stuff". Big on multiplayer in a variety of forms.
User-made modules very dependant on expansions and downloaded custom
content.
ToEE - thinnest plot ever stretched over a rather nice turn-based combat
engine. Short game. If you're playing "good" you may never find out
exactly what evil you've just defeated. Create your own party again, a
few bugs and a lot of annoyances in the design. Combat was peachy, but
if you prefer plot maybe rustle up Arcanum by the same developers. Ropey
combat, charming world, decent writing. Should be in the bargain bin.
Obligatory "If you like story, have you played Planescape:Torment?"
John Salerno
Thanks for the comments you two!
> Obligatory "If you like story, have you played Planescape:Torment?"
No, I'm still searching for it. Supposedly one website gets in a few
each month, and I'm on the list, but I haven't heard from them.
John Salerno
> NWN is very different. You only have proper, fine control over your one
> character
That's fine with me, because I like when it's a single main character.
That's one reason I love Morrowind.
> samey and a lot of people can't stand the graphics. The HS/Roleplay
> level of the game, however, depends entirely on the module you are
> playing.
Would you say the campaign that comes with NWN is a good game to play on
its own?
Kharsis
Tag Plastic wrote:
> John Salerno <johnjsa...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:408aebe5$0$28918$61fe...@news.rcn.com:
>
>
>>Just curious how you all think these compare to BG 1/2. Are they
>>similar enough if you enjoyed BG? I've heard that they are more
>>hack'n'slash than BG, but are they still pretty deep games?
>>
>>Also, anyone play Temple of Elemental Evil and have opinions on that
>>one?
>
Extremely bug ridden - in fact a 5 star cockroach motel even with the
official patch.
would recommend the following
Planescape Torment
The might and magic series aren't too bad and Vampire:The Masquerade is
good for a change in style.
Kharsis
Kharsis
John Salerno wrote:
> Tag Plastic wrote:
>
>
> Would you say the campaign that comes with NWN is a good game to play on
> its own?
I wouldn't recommend the original campaign on its own. Shadows of
Undrentide and Hordes of the Underdark are so much better.
NWN Gold includes SoU - so the only extra purchase would be HotU.
Kharsis
Moonlit
As with the others in the newsgroup I agree the baldurs gate series has a
great story and is for a large part non-linear. You can do a lot of quests
in any order. Planescape torment has an unique story and a lot more
conversation than baldur's gate. If you liked BG then I think you like
planscape too.
IWDI/IWDII (I am still playing II for the first time). Very linear story
(there isn't much of a story anyway) lot's of hack and slash. I don't think
it is even near the quality of BG and planescape. Though I seem to like
IWDII a bit more than IWDI but that;s because the graphics are better
(higher res).
NWN is fun to play too. Only you can't create a party as in the other games.
Though you sometimes can ask somebody to tag along. Especially the expansion
'hordes of the underdark', which I am currently still playing, is very good
(better get NWN and the two expansions).
Regards, Ron AF Greve.
"John Salerno" <johnjsa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:408aebe5$0$28918$61fe...@news.rcn.com...
John Salerno
> I wouldn't recommend the original campaign on its own. Shadows of
> Undrentide and Hordes of the Underdark are so much better.
> NWN Gold includes SoU - so the only extra purchase would be HotU.
My only concern there, as I've learned with the BG bundle packs, is that
I'm sure NWN Gold doesn't include the original manuals and maps and
things like that, which I like to have. Besides, even if I got Gold,
wouldn't I have to play through the original game first before moving on
to SoU, or is it all integrated?
Moonlit
"John Salerno" <johnjsa...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:408be4a5$0$28930$61fe...@news.rcn.com...
No, you can play all three of them seperately. They are independent modules
(luckily, since my harddisk crashed I wouldn't want to spend months playing
before reaching HoU again).
Regards, Ron AF Greve
John Salerno
> No, you can play all three of them seperately. They are independent modules
> (luckily, since my harddisk crashed I wouldn't want to spend months playing
> before reaching HoU again).
Oh, that's interesting. So, is any one of the three modules affected at
all by any of the others? For example, installing ToB along with SoA
immediately raises the XP cap, adds Watcher's Keep, etc. Do the NWN
expansions add content (or anything at all) to the original game, or to
the other modules?
Kish
Yes, they add prestige classes, improved AI in your companions, the
ability to manage your companions' inventories, some spells...lots of stuff.
Additionally...NWN itself expects you to start with a first-level
character, and end at level 15-20.
SoU expects you to start with a first-level character who has /not/ been
through the events of NWN.
HotU, however, expects you to start with a fifteenth-level character who
has been through the events of SoU--not NWN.
John Salerno
> Yes, they add prestige classes, improved AI in your companions, the
> ability to manage your companions' inventories, some spells...lots of
> stuff.
So you'd recommend installing all three at once?
> Additionally...NWN itself expects you to start with a first-level
> character, and end at level 15-20.
> SoU expects you to start with a first-level character who has /not/ been
> through the events of NWN.
> HotU, however, expects you to start with a fifteenth-level character who
> has been through the events of SoU--not NWN.
Hmm, how confusing. :) So you should start anew with NWN, also with SoU,
and then import your SoU character into HotU?
John Salerno
> Yes, they add prestige classes, improved AI in your companions, the
> ability to manage your companions' inventories, some spells...lots of
> stuff.
Sorry, for posting twice, but: can you use all of these additions in the
original NWN campaign, or only in the expansions?
Moonlit
Well, how I played it. I finished NWN then played a lot of user modules and
started SoU. However in SoU I imported the character I always played with,
this character was so strong that I could defeat any monster with one hand
while reading a book with the other (it spoilled the game a little for me).
In HotU you get the chance in the beginning to either use a predefined
character leveled up automatically to I believe 15 or so OR (what I did)
level the character up yourself to 15, before the game really starts.
Regards, Ron AF Greve
Moonlit
mention extremely large). Though the gameplay is quite different (first or
third person instead of an isometric view).
Regards, Ron AF Greve
"Moonlit" <news moonlit xs4all nl> wrote in message
news:408b9632$0$576$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl...
John Salerno
> Oh , ye,s as someone else mentioned, morrowind is pretty good too (not to
> mention extremely large). Though the gameplay is quite different (first or
> third person instead of an isometric view).
Yeah, not really comparable to the BG games, but Morrowind definitely is
one of the best (maybe the best) game I've every played. I had such a
blast with it.
Kish
> Kish wrote:
>
>> Yes, they add prestige classes, improved AI in your companions, the
>> ability to manage your companions' inventories, some spells...lots of
>> stuff.
>
>
> So you'd recommend installing all three at once?
Yes.
>
>> Additionally...NWN itself expects you to start with a first-level
>> character, and end at level 15-20.
>> SoU expects you to start with a first-level character who has /not/
>> been through the events of NWN.
>> HotU, however, expects you to start with a fifteenth-level character
>> who has been through the events of SoU--not NWN.
>
>
> Hmm, how confusing. :) So you should start anew with NWN, also with SoU,
> and then import your SoU character into HotU?
Yes.
> Sorry, for posting twice, but: can you use all of these additions in the original NWN campaign, or only in the expansions?
In the original NWN campaign.
Kharsis
I found exactly the opposite with Morrowind - boring and tedious.
Actually took it back to the shop and got a refund.
Kharsis
Hound of Cullen
$61fe...@news.rcn.com>:
Another "if you like story" plug:
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
It uses a core engine similar to neverwinter nights, although the graphics are
better. The ruleset is a modified version of the 3d-edition D&D rules,
translated to the Star Wars universe. I think the rules set work better
outside of the fantasy setting (fewer, streamlined skill and feat choices, and
the envisioned world feels more like a *world* than a collection of rules).
There's NPC interaction on par with BG2, some interesting side-quests, and
different good and evil story arcs (and the story, in general, is better put
together than Episode 1 or 2).
If you're not married to fantasy, and if you like Star Wars, check it out.
Hound
Hound of Cullen
$61fe...@news.rcn.com>:
You get *some* of the additons in the original campaign. You can't manage your
hireling's inventory, some crafting abilities aren't available, and some
prestige classes aren't available.
Hound
Kish
> John Salerno <johnjsa...@hotmail.com> wrote in <408c1c52$0$28896
> $61fe...@news.rcn.com>:
>
>
>>Kish wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Yes, they add prestige classes, improved AI in your companions, the
>>>ability to manage your companions' inventories, some spells...lots of
>>>stuff.
>>
>>Sorry, for posting twice, but: can you use all of these additions in the
>>original NWN campaign, or only in the expansions?
>>
>
>
> You get *some* of the additons in the original campaign. You can't manage your
> hireling's inventory,
You can't? I can. Might be another mod I have installed, then.
> and some
> prestige classes aren't available.
Hmm? Which?
John Salerno
>> Yeah, not really comparable to the BG games, but Morrowind definitely
>> is one of the best (maybe the best) game I've every played. I had such
>> a blast with it.
>
> I found exactly the opposite with Morrowind - boring and tedious.
Wow, that's too bad. I found that game to be so impressive. I'm
beginning to see why everyone thinks BG2 is one of the best RPGs, but
for a while I was underwhelmed by it. There are many gameplay decisions
the developers made that I don't like, and that I think BG1 does better.
John Salerno
> If you're not married to fantasy, and if you like Star Wars, check it out.
Yeah, that one's definitely on my list too. I'm looking forward to it.
Moonlit
Regards
"Kish" <Kis...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:789jc.1636$XL7...@newssvr27.news.prodigy.com...
You are right, you can.
With HotU you can modify your hirelings inventory. click on hireling->(Click
somwhere at 11'o clock in the radial menu (forgot the name )->(Click at 3'o
clock in the radial menu)->Inventory. You can also open you own inventory
and exchange items.
>
> > and some
> > prestige classes aren't available.
>
> Hmm? Which?
Regards, Ron AF Greve
Hound of Cullen
$e4fe...@news.xs4all.nl>:
I do that (with NWN gold ed. installed) get 'you cannot modify this
character's inventory' when playing the original campaign.
Hound
Moonlit
"Hound of Cullen" <s2szal...@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns94D77F815D0D2pz...@130.133.1.4...
(ex)change equipment, at least I didn't try it with the NWN or NWN/SoU so it
might or might not be possible with that.
But it sure works if you start HotU anew like I did. I just changed some
armor of my hireling an hour ago. That's one of the improvements I like with
the latest expansion.
> Hound
Regards, Ron AF Greve.