Valygar or Mazzy?
istara
Valygar or Mazzy as my final player for the "long haul."
I am still in Chapter 2, doing all the subquests. I have just rescued
Mazzy from the Umar temple ruins, and am about to swap her
(temporarily) for Valygar to do Planar Sphere, then I will probably
swap Jan in just to do his NPC quest.
Then when all is done and dusted, I will go and see Gaelen Bale(sp?)
and move into Chapter 3.
The rest of my party is:
Me (Kensai)
Korgan
Jaheira
Nalia
Edwin
(NB I have adjusted Korgan's and Edwin's aligments to neutral, to stop
them leaving).
My question is - who would be best for my party long-term? I would
really like a good archer and Mazzy seems excellent with bow, but only
short bow. Valygar appears to have some long bow skill, and I have
Heartseeker which it would be nice to use.
How much better will Mazzy be as an archer long term, and how
good/special is Valygar?
All thoughts/advice/hints etc greatly appreciated, many thanks in
advance.
Phaenar
"istara" <ist...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:3d67b644.03012...@posting.google.com...
I would drop Korgan altogether and pickup both Mazzy and Valygar. You'll
find out why soon enough.
John S. Colton
[snip]
>My question is - who would be best for my party long-term? I would
>really like a good archer and Mazzy seems excellent with bow, but only
>short bow. Valygar appears to have some long bow skill, and I have
>Heartseeker which it would be nice to use.
>
>How much better will Mazzy be as an archer long term, and how
>good/special is Valygar?
>
>All thoughts/advice/hints etc greatly appreciated, many thanks in
>advance.
I rapidly became a fan of Mazzy as a melee fighter. Her only downside
really is lack of strength. But there are enough strength enhancing
items that this is not a large problem for long. Since I didn't go
with Korgan, for roleplaying considerations, Mazzy was my only pure
fighter. She did some bow work at first, but soon her value in the
thick of things could not be neglected.
John
*****
John's new usenet motto:
"A soft answer turneth away wrath:
but grievous words stir up anger." --Prov. 15:1
*****
ms
other. Unless you're evil, drop Korgan and take both Mazzy and Valgyar.
"istara" <ist...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:3d67b644.03012...@posting.google.com...
istara
> I would drop Korgan altogether and pickup both Mazzy and Valygar. You'll
> find out why soon enough.
Spoilers why?!!
Korgan is such a sturdy little tank!!
Stephen Mackey
>> I would drop Korgan altogether and pickup both Mazzy and Valygar. You'll
>> find out why soon enough.
>
>Spoilers why?!!
>
>Korgan is such a sturdy little tank!!
They have really amusing banter. :)
--
Signing off as Stephen Mackey, the Multi-Threaded RFE Database Liaison.
"There is no sig. There is only Zuul."
Phaenar
Mazzy is a fighter but is for all intents and purposes a Paladin, save she
cannot wield Carsomyr. She takes Valygar as her squire and the two have
good banter. Mazzy also has excellent banter with many of the NPC's in the
game, you will have a fun time revisting all the shops and drinking
establishments in Athkatla and Trademeet.
But there's more. If either Mazzy or Valygar gets badly wounded in battle
the other will rush to help. I think it's 50% or 25% of hit points left
that triggers this.
The only downside of losing Korgan is he has some great banter with Jaheira,
some of the best in the game.
Uiler
However the problem as I see it is that neither Mazzy or Valygar make great
tanks. Mazzy because of her lack of strength and all her pips being in
short sword and short bow and Valygar because being a stalker he can only
wear at best leather armour so you can't really send him into the front
line. Also some of the best weapons in the game are axes and war hammers
(Crom Faeyer anyone?) and Korgon has 5 pips in axes and 3 in war hammers.
So if you have Korgon and say Minsc or Keldorn as your tanks you can
utilise the best weapons in the game to their fullest extent (give the 2
handed swords to Minsc/Keldorn, the axes and war hammers to Korgon) and
they can both wear the best armours. If you use Mazzy and Valygar as front
line fighters you will waste some of the armour and a good proportion of
the best weapons in the game (axes and warhammers). My planned party has
my Kensai/Mage dual wielding long swords, Keldorn with two-handed swords,
Korgon with war hammers and axes and perhaps Valygar with katanas and long
bows. I can always give the short bows to Imoen...
Uiler
Stephen Mackey
>However the problem as I see it is that neither Mazzy or Valygar make great
>tanks. Mazzy because of her lack of strength and all her pips being in
>short sword and short bow
She's not meant to be a tank. She's meant to be an archer using the Gesen Bow.
;)
>and Valygar because being a stalker he can only
>wear at best leather armour so you can't really send him into the front
>line.
He's got custom armor which provides quite a satisfactory AC on top of the
extra powers. And if you use the Item Upgrade mod you can even upgrade it to
make it more spectacular.
>Also some of the best weapons in the game are axes
o.O
The heck you say? I haven't seen any REALLY good axes. Certainly nothing as
good as Celestial Fury.
Kish
>
> Uiler said:
> >Also some of the best weapons in the game are axes
>
> o.O
> The heck you say? I haven't seen any REALLY good axes.
Frostreaver (didn't /someone/ argue that it should be seen as as good as
the Flail of Ages?--though that person was forgetting about the Slow
effect of the FoA, of course), Stonefire, the Axe of the Unyielding.
> Certainly nothing as
> good as Celestial Fury.
Very little is as good as Celestial Fury in the seven SoA chapters. And
then in ToB, major opponents need +4 or better weapons to hit, and
suddenly Celestial Fury's value drops dramatically while the Axe of the
Unyielding +5 is still extremely viable.
istara
> tanks. Mazzy because of her lack of strength and all her pips being in
> short sword and short bow and Valygar because being a stalker he can only
> wear at best leather armour so you can't really send him into the front
> line. Also some of the best weapons in the game are axes and war hammers
> (Crom Faeyer anyone?) and Korgon has 5 pips in axes and 3 in war hammers.
> So if you have Korgon and say Minsc or Keldorn as your tanks you can
> utilise the best weapons in the game to their fullest extent (give the 2
> handed swords to Minsc/Keldorn, the axes and war hammers to Korgon) and
> they can both wear the best armours. If you use Mazzy and Valygar as front
> line fighters you will waste some of the armour and a good proportion of
> the best weapons in the game (axes and warhammers). My planned party has
> my Kensai/Mage dual wielding long swords, Keldorn with two-handed swords,
> Korgon with war hammers and axes and perhaps Valygar with katanas and long
> bows. I can always give the short bows to Imoen...
Yes - because my kensai also can't wear armour, Korgan is my only
tank. (I haven't kept Minsc, Keldorn or Anomen).
I am finding Korgan a quite brilliant fighter. He's about level 12,
and just a while back I saw him deal a 46 blow to a mind-flayer or
illithid. With him and the kensai hasted and blessed, and some
Chaotic Commands, they just sliced through the mind-flayers,
umber-hulks and illithids. Previous attempts to include spellcaster
in the battle ended in dreadful failure.
I am not sure if my altering of Korgan's level will change his
dialogue with Mazzy. Certainly, there has not been one peep out of
him since about my 20 heroic rep, whereas Jaheira does nothing but
whinge and bitch.
Right now I am tending towards Mazzy, because Valygar just doesn't
seem that good. I had him wielding his katana and the other magic one
you get from Trademeet, and he was sadly unspectacular. I'm now
trying him with the Unicorn Spear and he's no better. Mazzy by
contrast was a little rain of hellfire with her shortbow. And it was
only a crap little bow, not even the +2(?) number Nalia has got.
Uiler
> Uiler said:
>
>>However the problem as I see it is that neither Mazzy or Valygar make
>>great
>>tanks. Mazzy because of her lack of strength and all her pips being in
>>short sword and short bow
>
> She's not meant to be a tank. She's meant to be an archer using the Gesen
> Bow. ;)
True. But one of the people in this thread suggested using her as a melee.
I got confused who I was replying to I supposed.
>
>>and Valygar because being a stalker he can only
>>wear at best leather armour so you can't really send him into the front
>>line.
>
> He's got custom armor which provides quite a satisfactory AC on top of the
> extra powers. And if you use the Item Upgrade mod you can even upgrade it
> to make it more spectacular.
>
>>Also some of the best weapons in the game are axes
You cut off the rest of my sentence. I said some of the best weapons are
axes AND warhammers. I'll concede that axes don't have the name fame value
of say Celestial Fury or the Crom Faeyer, but axes are one of the good
solid categories like long sword where they aren't any real "name-fame"
ones but you have the a good range that constantly improves (and which are
easily found throughout the whole game from beginning to end...) and which
are good weapons in melee. However there are some extremely good war
hammers like the Crom Faeyer and I was thinking of having Korgon dual wield
the Crom Faeyer in his main hand with an axe or warhammer of your choice on
the other. That is have Korgon's main weapon a warhammer like the Crom
Faeyer and his secondary weapon an axe or another warhammer or whatever you
want at the time. Still an axe wielding Korgon will do more damage than a
short sword wielding Mazzy (also because his strength is better). Now
think of a dual wielding Korgon with the Crom Faeyer...
>
> o.O
> The heck you say? I haven't seen any REALLY good axes. Certainly nothing
> as good as Celestial Fury.
>
>
Well, that's why I have Valygar with katanas :) But also note that Valygar
is a ranger so he can't get above Specialised in weapon proficiencies
whilst Korgon is a fighter and so can get Grand Mastery. This doesn't
matter so much if you are playing plain BG2 but you use the Ease of Use mod
which "un-nerfs" the proficiency table this makes a good deal of
difference. Also Korgon has much greater strength (18/77) over Valygar
(17). Which means using the un-nerfed table he gets a total of +2 to hit,
+3 damage and +1/2 attack over Valygar. Even with the nerfed table he gets
+1 to hit, +2 damage and a little extra speed. With his strength he also
gets bonuses on damage done (can't remember how much) and being a fighter,
his THACO (and hit points and saving throws...) rises/decreases faster as
his levels rise faster than Valygar who is a ranger. Also Korgon has a
much higher Constitution than Valygar. Granted Valygar as a stalker can do
things that Korgon can't eg. Valygar can cast a few spells, do backstabbing
etc. but as a pure fighter character Korgon is better. And if you REALLY
want Korgon to use the Celestial Fury then get him early so he only has one
pip in war hammer and as he progresses in levels put at least two pips in
Katana. It would be really bad for role-playing though (Korgon with a
katana...hmmm) That would make Korgon actually better at Katana than
Valygar due to his strength bonuses and better THACO. You could always
give Valygar a strengh enhancing item but that doesn't change the fact that
as a ranger he will always have a higher THACO and lower hit points than
Korgon. Korgon is also a Beserker so he can "Enrage" and get +2 damage,
-2AC, +2 to hit and be immune to charm, hold, fear, maze, imprisonment,
stun, level drain and sleep and gains 15HP. At least I think Korgon is a
beserker, it's been a while since I've played with him...
Valygar's armour is quite good and gives adequate protection but it only
gives the player an Armour Class of 2 (the equivalent of Plate Mail +1
which you can get as soon as you get out of the dungeon). But you soon get
armour that goes down further than that and also gives bonuses like 50%
resistence to fire or 15% resistence to fire and acid, similar to Valygar's
armour. Valygar's armour has resistences to fire acid and magic damage
(25%) but on the front line it's the swords and missiles that are going to
be hitting you most. I don't know but I don't feel entirely comfortable
with sending a fighter off to the front line surrounded by high ranking
enemy fighters hammering him with a zillion swords/axes/maces wearing the
equivalent of Plate Mail + 1 except at the beginning of the game...Even
with the resistences of the armour, a fighter wearing a -2 armour is STILL
going to better off because the lower AC means that they are going to be
hit less. And Korgon as a dwarf gets inherent magic and poison bonuses (+5
to saving throws for both in this case due to his very high Constitution)
which sort of balances the resistences of Valygar's armour. OTOH Valygar
does have a good dexterity that would lower his base AC...I don't know how
that would work out as I don't have the tables with me. Maybe someone can
do the maths? Mazzy has a very high dexterity as well so even she would
be a better tank than Valygar...). I don't know how that would work out as
I don't have the tables with me. Maybe someone can do the maths?
IMHO Valygar is much better off as a "back-up" fighter who is a good
all-rounder. Letting someone who can take the damage draw the fire and
then sending Valygar in to mop up stray ends or if needed do substantial
missile damage or backstab or cast a spell every now and then. Also he is
someone who can scout. He is a good all-rounder, a finesse fighter. But
as someone who is supposed to draw the bulk of the fire...What it basically
comes down to is Korgon is a brilliant melee fighter who is very good at
taking damage and surviving. I mean if you look at his stats it's almost
as if a power-gamer made them (you know put all the pips in Strength and
Constitution, get a decent Dexterity and make Intelligence, Wisdom and
Charisma as low as possible, choose dwarf to get good const etc.). OTOH
he's not much good at anything else eg. missile, spells etc. I say think of
Korgon as the tank that moves out front first taking the hits and who knows
how to swing a warhammer/axe/whatever and not much else. Valygar is the
light-armoured all-round finesse fighter who moves in behind whilst the
tank is doing the damage or does missile damage or cast damage spells as
the circumstances require. Korgon is very good at what he does (tanking
and melee damage) and Valygar is also very good at what he does (finesse
fighting). They just have two very different styles of fighting. That and
I like Valygar's personality. You know I wish female characters could
romance Valygar :)
Uiler
Stephen Mackey
>Frostreaver (didn't /someone/ argue that it should be seen as as good as
>the Flail of Ages?
What can I say, the rest of you put up good arguments. ;)
>Stonefire, the Axe of the Unyielding.
Don't remember those. Where are they? Stats? Just out of curiousity.
>Very little is as good as Celestial Fury in the seven SoA chapters. And
>then in ToB, major opponents need +4 or better weapons to hit, and
>suddenly Celestial Fury's value drops dramatically
::has never played a game without the Item Upgrade mod... grin::
Stephen Mackey
>You cut off the rest of my sentence.
That's because I agreed with the rest. ;) Warhammers rock, to say that Crom
sucks would be silly.
>I was thinking of having Korgon dual wield
>the Crom Faeyer in his main hand with an axe or warhammer of your choice on
>the other.
Why not Valygar with Celestial Fury and Crom? It'd take a bit to get the
proper pips, but with 25 strength that doesn't matter a whole lot.
>Still an axe wielding Korgon will do more damage than a
>short sword wielding Mazzy (also because his strength is better).
Again, Mazzy is supposed to be an archer. The short sword is only for when she
gets cornered.
>But also note that Valygar
>is a ranger so he can't get above Specialised in weapon proficiencies
>whilst Korgon is a fighter and so can get Grand Mastery. This doesn't
>matter so much if you are playing plain BG2 but you use the Ease of Use mod
...was this specified in the original post? I can't remember. If so, then I
do indeed bow out as those five pips matter a whole lot more with that mod.
Without it, though, I'll still hold my stance. And if we're just drawing up
mods willy nilly, I call Item Upgrade to make Val's armor even better. :)
*snip the discussions between who kicks more butt, Valy or Korgy*
They each have advantages and disadvantages. They're close enough that I see
no real point in hashing them out unless you want to do a proper, thorough
statistical analysis. And I know I don't.
::grin::
>At least I think Korgon is a
>beserker, it's been a while since I've played with him...
The manual lists him as a vanilla fighter, and that's what I seem to remember
him as....
>What it basically
>comes down to is Korgon is a brilliant melee fighter who is very good at
>taking damage and surviving.
If all you want is endurance, you should do a mod that ports over Kagain from
BG1.
::grin::
Yet another evil dwarf fighter, only with a Con of 20, so that he actually
REGENERATES. He musta found himself a tome. ;) I did all of BG1 with him as
my only "tank", the rest using bows and spells. It worked sickeningly well.
>I mean if you look at his stats it's almost
>as if a power-gamer made them
::snerk::
I could argue that about almost all the BG npcs, considering how high their
stats are overall. They're demigods compared to the stuff I play in P&P.
A TRUE powergamer would have dipped Int some more to get more Wisdom for the
save bonuses that may or may not exist in BG (I've had conflicting reports...),
though. LOL.
Kish
>
> Uiler said:
>
> >But also note that Valygar
> >is a ranger so he can't get above Specialised in weapon proficiencies
> >whilst Korgon is a fighter and so can get Grand Mastery. This doesn't
> >matter so much if you are playing plain BG2 but you use the Ease of Use mod
>
> ...was this specified in the original post? I can't remember. If so, then I
> do indeed bow out as those five pips matter a whole lot more with that mod.
> Without it, though, I'll still hold my stance. And if we're just drawing up
> mods willy nilly, I call Item Upgrade to make Val's armor even better. :)
While you're at it, call up Ease-of-Use and say Valygar can get Grand
Mastery too.
Really, presuming no mods at all makes more sense.
> >At least I think Korgon is a
> >beserker, it's been a while since I've played with him...
>
> The manual lists him as a vanilla fighter,
Not mine.
> and that's what I seem to remember
> him as....
Never in my game. He starts out as a berserker and becomes a smudge on
the Copper Coronet floor, without at any time passing through a stage of
being a vanilla fighter.
Stephen Mackey
>> >At least I think Korgon is a
>> >beserker, it's been a while since I've played with him...
>>
>> The manual lists him as a vanilla fighter,
>
>Not mine.
Hmm. This is interesting. Under "Korgan" mine says:
"[chaotic evil, dwarf male, fighter]"
For Valygar, it likewise says:
"[neutral good, human male, stalker]"
So the kit is in fact mentioned when there is one. But Korgan ain't mentioned
as having a kit. As soon as I get to the Coronet in my current game I'll take
on Korgan to make a note of his class/kit status. Shouldn't take dreadfully
long as I just took out Improved Ilyich again a couple hours ago.
>Never in my game. He starts out as a berserker and becomes a smudge on
>the Copper Coronet floor,
...LOL. How did that come about? Did you not like the way he was looking at
you?
::amused grin::
Stephen Mackey
>As soon as I get to the Coronet in my current game I'll take
>on Korgan to make a note of his class/kit status. Shouldn't take dreadfully
>long as I just took out Improved Ilyich again a couple hours ago.
>
Well, I just got to him and recruited. And he is indeed a berserker, despite
what the manual says. My bad, y'all.
Uiler
> Stephen Mackey wrote:
>>
>> Uiler said:
>
>>
>> >But also note that Valygar
>> >is a ranger so he can't get above Specialised in weapon proficiencies
>> >whilst Korgon is a fighter and so can get Grand Mastery. This doesn't
>> >matter so much if you are playing plain BG2 but you use the Ease of Use
>> >mod
>>
>> ...was this specified in the original post? I can't remember. If so,
>> then I do indeed bow out as those five pips matter a whole lot more with
>> that mod.
>> Without it, though, I'll still hold my stance. And if we're just drawing
>> up mods willy nilly, I call Item Upgrade to make Val's armor even better.
>> :)
>
> While you're at it, call up Ease-of-Use and say Valygar can get Grand
> Mastery too.
>
> Really, presuming no mods at all makes more sense.
Yes, you're right of course. Sorry I brought that up. Still I think that
even without true Grandmastery Korgon does make a better tank. However my
point all along is that Korgon and Valygar have different strengths and
weaknesses, not necessarily that Korgon RULZ and Valygar SUCKS :)
Otherwise I wouldn't be planning to have both in my team. I'm sorry I
didn't make that clear. I was getting the impression from the original
message I was replying to was that people were saying that you can drop in
Valygar for Korgon (and vice-versa) and you can use them in exactly the
same way because well really there's no real difference between the two
except one's a dwarf and swings an axe/war hammer and one's human and
swings a katana. Korgon and Valygar fulfil two different roles in the
party. The Stalker kit is more of a thief/fighter type fighter with a bit
of a mage whilst the Beserker kit (esp. as a dwarf...) is more of well a
beserker.
Actually, to tell the truth I would rather not have Korgon in my party as I
dislike his character (the same reasons I kicked out some other NPCs
*cough*Anomen*cough*). I really hate boorish crude guys and he isn't even
"good deep down inside" (yes I've seen the ending of ToB). I don't mind
Edwin though because he's more pathetic evil and makes me laugh. Viconia
is OK as well. Anyone want to suggest an NPC that is good at tanking ie.
"Be a good boy and distract those 5 high level fighters whilst I get the
mage to pull off a 6 spell combo. And try not to die huh?" and dealing
damage and can utilise the Crom Faeyer well?
Uiler
T.J....@durham.ac.uk
>> >Also some of the best weapons in the game are axes
>>
>> o.O
>> The heck you say? I haven't seen any REALLY good axes.
> Frostreaver (didn't /someone/ argue that it should be seen as as good as
> the Flail of Ages?--though that person was forgetting about the Slow
> effect of the FoA, of course), Stonefire, the Axe of the Unyielding.
The first two elemental branded, the last only available in ToB?
That puts them more or less equal with bastard swords.
Tom
--
Let's see. We're charred, we've all got twigs in our hair, and we're
covered in ducks.
- Riff
Phaenar
"Uiler" <uil...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3e38...@clarion.carno.net.au...
> Phaenar wrote:
>
> >
> > Mazzy is a fighter but is for all intents and purposes a Paladin, save
she
> > cannot wield Carsomyr. She takes Valygar as her squire and the two have
> > good banter. Mazzy also has excellent banter with many of the NPC's in
> > the game, you will have a fun time revisting all the shops and drinking
> > establishments in Athkatla and Trademeet.
> >
> > But there's more. If either Mazzy or Valygar gets badly wounded in
battle
> > the other will rush to help. I think it's 50% or 25% of hit points left
> > that triggers this.
> >
> > The only downside of losing Korgan is he has some great banter with
> > Jaheira, some of the best in the game.
>
> However the problem as I see it is that neither Mazzy or Valygar make
great
> tanks. Mazzy because of her lack of strength and all her pips being in
> short sword and short bow and Valygar because being a stalker he can only
> wear at best leather armour so you can't really send him into the front
> line.
There are lots of strength enhancing items. Mazzy is in fact an awesome
tank because she has a bunch of special abilities granted to her by Avoreen,
including the lay on hands. With the Gesen bow she is a mage killer. And
if you are not happy with shortswords there are lots of other weapons she
can specialize in if you invest the time to develop her proficiencies. In
the mean time there are lots of magic potions of strength she can use for
the tough battles.
Valygar is a stalker and can use stealth and backstab. He can also wear the
Shadow Dragon armor which is the equivalent of studded leather.
If you look at Mazzy's stats they are, with the exception of strength,
pretty incredible overall.
Devast8or
Devast8or
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istara <ist...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:3d67b644.03012...@posting.google.com...
istara
> BG1.
> ::grin::
> Yet another evil dwarf fighter, only with a Con of 20, so that he actually
> REGENERATES. He musta found himself a tome. ;) I did all of BG1 with him as
> my only "tank", the rest using bows and spells. It worked sickeningly well.
Ah - MYSTERY SOLVED! Up until this point I had mistakenly thought
that Korgan was the same guy as in BG1 (well they are both evil
dwarves with confusingly similar names). And I was wondering where
his regeneration had gone.
It may be that this in fact was what Helm intended, and I should
indeed be upping Korgan's Con to 20... we will see...
sqweek
> Kish said:
>
> >Frostreaver (didn't /someone/ argue that it should be seen as as good as
> >the Flail of Ages?
>
> What can I say, the rest of you put up good arguments. ;)
>
> >Stonefire, the Axe of the Unyielding.
>
> Don't remember those. Where are they? Stats? Just out of curiousity.
Stonefire, sold in the Copper Coronet. Practically the same as
frostreaver but does 2 fire damage instead of 1 cold and 1 acid.
Axe of the unyielding +3 is in Watcher's Keep IIRC, and gives some
regeneration and +1 AC. You can upgrade it to +5 when it gives +1 con
and has a 10% chance of decapitating a foe (no save).
John S. Colton
[snip]
>However the problem as I see it is that neither Mazzy or Valygar make great
>tanks. Mazzy because of her lack of strength and all her pips being in
>short sword and short bow and Valygar because being a stalker he can only
>wear at best leather armour so you can't really send him into the front
>line.
Agreed about Valygar. However, I just added pips to hammer when Mazzy
leveled, and gave her the Crom Feir (sp?). Instant boost to 25
strength. She was a force to be reckoned with.
istara
A big +3 axe thing. (Frostreaver?) One of the ones you get near the
start, I forget where. I got it legally, didn't cheat for it. It's
not the brilliant throwing axe that everyone recommends (maybe that's
Frostreaver??) because he was evil and couldn't wield it.
Also he was hasted, and blessed, and chaotic commanded and IIRC beserk
as well.
I was a bit surprised, I must admit, I don't recall him even doing 30
damage in a hit before. I scrolled back up to check, and it said
something like:
Korgan critical hit
Korgan does 46 damage
Korgan does 1 damage
Korgan does 1 damage
I think the extra damage may be cold damage or something???
Also - haven't cheated Korgan's stats at all, except for making him
neutral not evil, but he is wearing the Belt of Giant Strength 19.
Devast8or
IIRC. And it's in the De'arnise keep so you can get it early on. My PC
(dwarven berserker dual wielding Frostreaver and Flail of Ages) usually does
30-40 damage with Frostraever, so if Korgan was blessed, berserking and
wearing a 19 str. girdle it sounds about right.
Devast8or
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istara <ist...@mail.com> wrote in message
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Jonathan Ellis
"Devast8or" <N...@no.blowme> wrote in message
news:_Pd_9.48644$Hl6.6...@news010.worldonline.dk...
> It could very well be Frostreaver, as it does physical and 1 cold
and 1 acid
> IIRC. And it's in the De'arnise keep so you can get it early on. My
PC
> (dwarven berserker dual wielding Frostreaver and Flail of Ages)
usually does
> 30-40 damage with Frostraever, so if Korgan was blessed, berserking
and
> wearing a 19 str. girdle it sounds about right.
There are three +3 axes you can get early on.
"Frostreaver", which does an extra 1 point of Cold and Acid damage per
hit (cold and acid damage which goes through stoneskins, and can thus
disrupt the spellcasting of stoneskinned mages), is to be found in
De'Arnise Keep, but you will have to beat or avoid at least two golems
to get it.
"Stonefire" can be bought or stolen from Bernard after you've freed
Hendak. It does +2 Fire damage (which, like Frostreaver's cold and
acid, goes through stoneskins.)
"Azuredge" can also be bought or stolen from Bernard. It can be
thrown, and returns to the hand, and can destroy any undead creature
in one hit. However, only Good people can use it.
If you side with Bodhi, you can get an alternative +3 throwing axe
from one of the quests, an axe called Rifthome.
Korgan is best off wielding either Stonefire or Frostreaver (or
dual-wielding both). The Girdle of Hill Giant Strength is wasted on
him if you have another fighter who has less than Korgan's unassisted
strength: give the girdle to them instead - his strength is already
18/something and less in need of the enhancement.
For instance: if your other fighter is Jaheira, give the girdle
to her, because that will give you two fighters with strengths of
18/xx (Korgan) and 19 (Jaheira), whereas if you gave it to him, you'd
have two fighters with strengths of 19 (Korgan) and 14 (Jaheira).
Jonathan.
Kish
>
>
> Anyone want to suggest an NPC that is good at tanking ie.
> "Be a good boy and distract those 5 high level fighters whilst I get the
> mage to pull off a 6 spell combo. And try not to die huh?" and dealing
> damage and can utilise the Crom Faeyer well?
Minsc best fits that description after Korgan.
Kish
Korgan is nothing like Kagain, except that they're both greedy evil
dwarves.
Stephen Mackey
>Stonefire, sold in the Copper Coronet. Practically the same as
>frostreaver but does 2 fire damage instead of 1 cold and 1 acid.
::yawn::
Boriiiing. Plus, more enemies seem resistant to fire than acid and cold.
>Axe of the unyielding +3 is in Watcher's Keep IIRC, and gives some
>regeneration and +1 AC. You can upgrade it to +5 when it gives +1 con
>and has a 10% chance of decapitating a foe (no save).
Now THAT'S a nice weapon. :) Now I have a reason to use Korgan with an evil
party, finally... assuming I can stand his personality long enough....
Kish
>
> Kish said:
> >Never in my game. He starts out as a berserker and becomes a smudge on
> >the Copper Coronet floor,
>
> ...LOL. How did that come about? Did you not like the way he was looking at
> you?
> ::amused grin::
I take him in my party and go on his quest. Meanwhile, he makes several
lovely jokes about rape, tells a courtesan in the Docks district that
it's no fun for him if the woman's not fighting him, harasses all the
women in my party, and, if I'm lucky, tells me what really happened
between him and his previous party. Then I finally catch up with
Shagbag, and Shagbag fills in anything I hadn't already gathered about
the monster I've taken in my party. (I wouldn't take Shagbag's word
alone...but by that time, I know Korgan well enough to know that he
speaks the truth.) So then I kick Korgan out of the party and kill him
in single combat.
istara
> to her, because that will give you two fighters with strengths of
> 18/xx (Korgan) and 19 (Jaheira), whereas if you gave it to him, you'd
> have two fighters with strengths of 19 (Korgan) and 14 (Jaheira).
Ah I see. The thing is I haven't really been using Jaheira to fight,
more to spellcast (insect plague usually) then heal. And she flings a
few bullets with the Sling of Everard that I saved up to buy, but
really, she's back-up.
My kensai, Korgan, and soon to be probably Mazzy are my crack
fighting/tanking team.
Jonathan Ellis
In that case, put the girdle on Mazzy, rather than Korgan (as your
Kensai presumably has a higher strength than Mazzy), for the reasons
outlined above - i.e. that you want the biggest "bang-for-the-buck"
improvement in the TOTAL strength of your frontliners, and it's better
to improve one from 15 to 19 and have an unimproved 18/xx to spare
than to improve one from 18/xx to 19 and have an unimproved 15 to
spare.
Jonathan.
sqweek
>
> "Devast8or" <N...@no.blowme> wrote in message
> news:_Pd_9.48644$Hl6.6...@news010.worldonline.dk...
> > It could very well be Frostreaver, as it does physical and 1 cold
> and 1 acid
> > IIRC. And it's in the De'arnise keep so you can get it early on. My
> PC
> > (dwarven berserker dual wielding Frostreaver and Flail of Ages)
> usually does
> > 30-40 damage with Frostraever, so if Korgan was blessed, berserking
> and
> > wearing a 19 str. girdle it sounds about right.
>
> Hendak. It does +2 Fire damage (which, like Frostreaver's cold and
> acid, goes through stoneskins.)
Note you don't have to side with Hendak ;)
istara
> Kensai presumably has a higher strength than Mazzy), for the reasons
> outlined above - i.e. that you want the biggest "bang-for-the-buck"
> improvement in the TOTAL strength of your frontliners, and it's better
> to improve one from 15 to 19 and have an unimproved 18/xx to spare
> than to improve one from 18/xx to 19 and have an unimproved 15 to
> spare.
Great. I will try that once I am finished with Valygar (whose
fighting skills I am *majorly* unimpressed with, compared to Mazzy).
Incidentally does strength make the same differnence to missile
weapons as it does to melee ones? Or is anything else, like
dexterity, more important?
And just one more Q - is Mazzy reckoned to be as good as Kivan(sp?) -
that archer guy from BG1 who wants you to hunt wyverns for him? I
loved him.
sqweek
> > In that case, put the girdle on Mazzy, rather than Korgan (as your
> > Kensai presumably has a higher strength than Mazzy), for the reasons
> > outlined above - i.e. that you want the biggest "bang-for-the-buck"
> > improvement in the TOTAL strength of your frontliners, and it's better
> > to improve one from 15 to 19 and have an unimproved 18/xx to spare
> > than to improve one from 18/xx to 19 and have an unimproved 15 to
> > spare.
>
> Great. I will try that once I am finished with Valygar (whose
> fighting skills I am *majorly* unimpressed with, compared to Mazzy).
>
> Incidentally does strength make the same differnence to missile
> weapons as it does to melee ones? Or is anything else, like
> dexterity, more important?
For some weapons. Thrown weapons, such as throwing axes and knives get
bonuses for high strength, but bows/crossbows/slings do not (Apart from
the sling of seeking +2, which is specifically designed so that strength
bonuses apply)
> And just one more Q - is Mazzy reckoned to be as good as Kivan(sp?) -
> that archer guy from BG1 who wants you to hunt wyverns for him? I
> loved him.
I think you mean Coran, Kivan wanted to hunt bandits IIRC. But I don't
know about the comparison...
Jono
Just a suggestion for a party combination, and really you have plenty of
tanks and back up in this respect:
Minsc: forget about putting any more pluses in two handed sword, give him
the vorpal when you eventually get it, but due to him having slots in two
weapon fighting, he's already got slots in mace, invest in flail as well.
All of a sudden, he dual wields Flail of the Ages, and Mace of Disruption
+2 (if you upgraded it) and is immune to any level drain.
Mazzy: give her one of the two strength girdles, problem fixed, she can go
front line or go on bow, personally I'd up her showrt sword, her bow is
already high enough. I recently used her for the cult of the eyeless quest,
and did it with a breeze due to the BG2: Collector's Edition storkeeper
files, which certainly can't be considered cheating, due to them actually
being made by BI/IP/Wiz, of course she was using shield of balduran, which
gave her -1 str, but she had a giant girdle on and still had 18 or 19 str,
and of course couldnt be killed by a beholder
Valygar: Up, up up, his Katana ability, and have him wield Celestial Fury,
and any other half decent Katanas out there, and then give him the shadow
dragon armor, and if low strength, could always give him the other giant
girdle temporarily part of crom fayer, but of course he's the third fighter
you send into melee first
Viconia: You start giving her warhammer proficiency, sure, she'll only have
one plus in it, i think, but until then, give her Maulers Arm, that raises
her str to 19, and shes a more than able front line as well due to being
able to wear full plate, but warhammer proficiency ? Crom naturally, and of
course give her the amulet from Linvail, which gives her prot from level
drain. Of course Vic's back up weapon is the +5 sling from the
BG2:Collector's Edition. Mind you swapping that between her and anyone else
who needs a missile weapon.
Yoshi/Imoen: Yoshi is good with a bow, and Imoen is about the same, but you
don't want Yoshi getting into mele whene you have him, so you end up giving
him the short bow from trademeet that doesnt require arrows, and give him
what ever armor you want, naturally he cant have the shadow dragon armor,
so give him the armor you get from doing and helping the umar hills people
out, or even the armor from the shadow thieves early quests helping Maevar.
As for Imoen, well she replaces Yoshi, and is a useful back up mage, and
also more than handy thief, if you have the Baldurdash fix, which Mr
Dorner, upped her thieving skills, due to BI/IP/Wiz, not realising they
cheated her out of 30 thieving points, ie a full level, when they dual
classed her. But she can detect most traps and unlock most chests and
doors, and you dont really need much more in BG2 than that. Oh of course
when getting little sis back, you give her the Gesen bow, and that doesn't
require ammo.
Oh, and the 6th party member and main char?
Mage, non specialised, and if the wis is high enough, give him the dagger
from the Limited Wish quest, it returns every round, so the mage is always
out of melee, and can cast spells or throw the dagger or grab Vic's +5
sling.
That in itself and those party members, do make a very effective party, the
only downside perhaps is no +5 Holy Avenger, and the only +5 weapon is the
sling. Still it's doable. But if you don't want Valygar, then you can
always take Cernd. Take him for his spell casting ? No, but use him as a
healer after the fight is over. But take him for his werewolf or is it
wolfwere shapechanging, he doesn't have good stats in his normal form, but
once you shape change him, he is a very effective tank as well.
I'm about to start over again with BG2, and plan on taking that basic
party, but just undecided which 2 of Cernd, Valygar and Mazzy I'll be
going.
But of course the above mentioned party, is really for the good aligned
party, and frankly, I don't like tweaking people's alignments, I will tweak
Vic's if I ever make it through to BG2:ToB with her.
So, to wrap up quickly:
Minsc(always melee)
Mazzy(melee or ranged)
Valygar(melee or ranged)/Cernd(always melee)
Viconia(melee or ranged)
Yoshimo/Imoen(always ranged)
So really, you can go up close and personal with the enemy, or pick them
off at a distance with that party, and really you have no problems with
strength problems, thus no AC problems. Apart from maybe and only maybe
Valygar, I've only seen his stats once, but the second weapon you could put
in his off hand with CF in his main hand, is of course the Mauler's Arm.
Problem solved, unless there's any other strength increasing weapons :)
Just my many many many 2 cents :>
Jono.
Jonathan Ellis
"Jono" <ge...@mindless.com> wrote in message
news:Xns93185F0C9725...@203.194.27.1...
>
> Just a suggestion for a party combination, and really you have
plenty of
> tanks and back up in this respect:
>
> Minsc: forget about putting any more pluses in two handed sword,
You can't. Rangers get a maximum of two, and he starts with that.
> give him the vorpal when you eventually get it, but due to him
having slots in
> two weapon fighting, he's already got slots in mace, invest in flail
as well.
Yup, that's nice.
> All of a sudden, he dual wields Flail of the Ages, and Mace of
Disruption
> +2 (if you upgraded it) and is immune to any level drain.
My current party is as follows:
- Wild Mage protagonist. Started BG1 as a vanilla Mage with Strength
18, read the book of Strength to go to 19, used Shadowkeeper to
convert to wild mage for BG2 (as wild mages did not exist in BG1.)
Wielding the Staff of the Magi and the best sling he can find -
currently the +5 Erinne sling (Anomen has the Sling of Seeking and
Aerie has the Sling of Everard): before that, it was the +4 Sling of
Arvoreen, and before *that* it was the +3 sling Arla's Dragonbane.
- Mazzy (who has, since early in the game, been wearing the Girdle of
Hill Giant Strength - recently upgraded to the Fire Giant Strength
girdle upon finding it in ToB: Imoen now has the Hill Giant Strength
girdle.) Currently grandmaster in Long Swords, with two pips in Dual
Wield, and dual-wielding Answerer (main hand) and Equalizer (off
hand), with an option on Blackrazor (I have the Revised Hell Tests
mod, which allows you to do some things the evil way without
converting directly to evil as long as you have done at least as many
things the good way.) Willing to switch to Gesen Short Bow as and when
needed, as a missile weapon. Before acquiring the Answerer, mainly
used Equalizer and Blade of Roses (and, before getting the Equalizer,
used Blade of Roses and Daystar dual-wielded.) Waiting to improve
Angurvadal and use that as yet another option.
- Valygar (did not acquire a Strength-boosting item until Chapter 5,
when I got the Frost Giant Strength Girdle: he went all the way until
then with Strength 17, supplemented when necessary by Potions of Giant
Strength.) Dropped back to 17 Str when losing the girdle as I made
Crom Faeyr (since Anomen was the first to wield it), but then got the
Girdle of Stone Giant Strength in Suldanessellar and is still wielding
it. Wielding Celestial Fury (since Chapter 6 only). Currently dualling
it with Hindo's Doom. Also has two pips in Axes - has in his time
wielded Frostreaver, Stonefire, Azuredge. Can use a bow too, currently
using Strongarm (thanks to his giant strength girdle) - and has used
bows a lot. I've given him two pips in Halberds too, just in case I
ever want anyone to use Ravager or The Wave. (Imix died in one hit.)
- Anomen. Grand Mastery in Flails, of course, for the Flail of Ages.
Wields a Mace in the off-hand - Mace of Disruption +2 originally, or
sometimes now Storm Star now that I have it (since ToB) and has two
stars in dual wield. If a missile weapon is required, he has the Sling
of Seeking and specialisation in slings. Needed no strength
enhancement throughout SoA: got the 1 extra point from the Machine of
Lum in ToB, so he now has natural 19 str. Gibs liches like nobody's
business.
- Aerie. She, of all people, is the one wielding Crom Faeyr. With it,
a shield and Stoneskins, she's actually fairly difficult to hit and
does horrendous damage. (Aerie the Tank???) This is because my three
principal fighter types all already have giant strength. Has the Sling
of Everard as well, but her spells are really her primary weapon (Crom
Faeyr serves mainly to keep her strength up so she can carry lots, and
doesn't get her strength drained so badly she can't move, a problem
I've faced with her against Spirit Trolls several times.)
- Imoen. Currently wielding Tansheron's Bow as primary weapon.
Backstabs with whichever one Mazzy isn't using out of Daystar, Blade
of Roses, Answerer, Blackrazor, Equalizer, or unimproved Angurvadal.
With the girdle of hill giant strength, she does considerable damage
with a backstab even considering her limited thief level.
No place in my party yet for the Staff of the Ram, Ixil's Spike,
Dagger of the Star, Runehammer, or Axe of the Unyielding (though
Valygar is now considering using the latter as his dual-wielded weapon
with Celestial Fury, rather than using Hindo's Doom.)
Jonathan.
Ghreyfain
> >Incidentally does strength make the same differnence to missile
> >weapons as it does to melee ones?
>
> weapons ie daggers, darts, and axes that are thrown I don't think the infinity
> engine games allow this. Strength is not ever supposed to be added to bows,
> slings and crossbows of course.
The non-magical throwing axe has the STR bonus added, as does
slng07.itm, The Sling of Seeking. For some reason the Throwing Axe +2
does not do STR damage when it is thrown. I wonder if this is fixed
in Baldurdash?
Not that any weapon may be flagged to use the STR bonus to damage.
Ultrix
> No strength is only added to melee weapons though it should be added to thrown
> weapons ie daggers, darts, and axes that are thrown I don't think the infinity
> engine games allow this. Strength is not ever supposed to be added to bows,
> slings and crossbows of course.
> Dexterity adds a to hit to all thrown and missle weapons. So a high dex is
> good for you bowman, xbowman and slingers. in the infinitity engine games of
> couse dex is the only addition to thrown darts, axes and daggers as well.
> Though in pen and paper many dms add stength to purly thrown weapons.
Strength bonus is normally added to thrown axes (but not to thrown
daggers or darts) in BGII. That's why kensais are better archers
than...err...archers.
And not to mention the infamous bug with arrows of biting...and with
the eagle bow in BGI...
For slings it should only be added for the sling of seeking...