Use of defensive spells?
Barbarian X
"Jeremiah" <br...@spam.to.dev.null> skrev i meddelandet
news:la0g6.225616$w35.39...@news1.rdc1.nj.home.com...
>
> I'm curious how many of you use defensive spells (Chant,
> Defensive Harmony, Bless, etc.) after combat has started... Generally,
> I don't use defensive spells at all. When I get into an easy fight, I
> don't need them, and when I get into a tough fight, I have better things
> to cast (Greater Command, Insect Plague, Hold Person, etc.). By the
> time I have nothing better to cast, the fight is pretty much over...
> Am I the only one who doesn't use them?
I think so ;)
Seriously tho I ALWAYS cast a lot of them on me; especially if dying in a
fight and reloading.
But normally I scout ahead of me so I have time to cast them anyway.
/S
James Prieels
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In article <la0g6.225616$w35.39...@news1.rdc1.nj.home.com>,
evilq...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> I'm curious how many of you use defensive spells (Chant,
> Defensive Harmony, Bless, etc.) after combat has started...
Generally,
> I don't use defensive spells at all. When I get into an easy fight, I
> don't need them, and when I get into a tough fight, I have better
things
> to cast (Greater Command, Insect Plague, Hold Person, etc.). By the
> time I have nothing better to cast, the fight is pretty much over...
> Am I the only one who doesn't use them?
It's hard to estimate the effect of spells like Bless, Chant and
Protection From Evil... but it is there, and after a while one gets a
feeling of their worth.
I always have Protection From Evil 10' Radius on. At 1 turn/level, it
lasts forever. I add Bless/Chant before hard fights, and as another
poster has suggested, Aerie is the ideal person to cast this via a
Minor Spell Sequencer.
It's also good to keep 'problem solvers' memorised, such as Free Action
and Chaotic Commands: they get rid of a hold/charm spell in effect,
plus they prevent it from happening again - again for 1 turn/level. I
occasionally cast these ahead of time when facing VERY tough opponents,
such as Liches.
On the mage side, Spell Immunity can come in handy: Conjuration vs.
Power Words, Evocation vs. Djinni, Enchantment vs. Umber Hulks...
Cheers,
James
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Speaker-to-Customers
"Jeremiah" <br...@spam.to.dev.null> wrote in message
news:la0g6.225616$w35.39...@news1.rdc1.nj.home.com...
>
> I'm curious how many of you use defensive spells (Chant,
> Defensive Harmony, Bless, etc.) after combat has started... Generally,
> I don't use defensive spells at all. When I get into an easy fight, I
> don't need them, and when I get into a tough fight, I have better things
> to cast (Greater Command, Insect Plague, Hold Person, etc.). By the
> time I have nothing better to cast, the fight is pretty much over...
> Am I the only one who doesn't use them?
>
I only cast defensive spells before the fight starts. Once combat has been
joined, I rarely even cast offensive spells. Either the fighters have won
before I can think what to cast, or else the mage/cleric gets hit and the
spell gets lost. Mainly, my spellcasters are slingers, switching to staff
or mace once the enemy gets too close, and healers.
However, I do tend to approach anything that looks dangerous with everyone
hyped up to the max; Hasted, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Prot. From
Evil, the lot. If I blunder into a dangerous situation unprepared, I
usually run away and come back with those spells in effect. Using those
tactics, I went through Icewind Dale only having had to reload once before
the final battle.
Paul Speaker-to-Customers
Jeremiah
"Barbarian X" <this...@validadress.com> spake thusly:
>
> But normally I scout ahead of me so I have time to cast them anyway.
Yeah, that's one thing I probably should do... I stopped doing
it mainly because of the "essential dialog bug" where dialog is initiated
even though your character is invisible. Having that happen is even worse
than blundering into a battle with your whole party. Besides, my main
character (fighter/thief) isn't the brightest or wisest guy in the realms,
so it makes sense... Maybe I'll start scouting with a wizard eye...
But there are also a lot of places where you get jumped and don't
have the opportunity to scout...
Barbarian X
"Jeremiah" <br...@spam.to.dev.null> skrev i meddelandet
Well in those places I usually only uses 2 spells... haste and Prot-from-ev
10" so my little Viccie can send forth her demons ;)
/S
>
>
Rune Christensen
news:la0g6.225616$w35.39...@news1.rdc1.nj.home.com...
>
> I'm curious how many of you use defensive spells (Chant,
> Defensive Harmony, Bless, etc.) after combat has started...
Generally,
> I don't use defensive spells at all. When I get into an easy fight,
I
> don't need them, and when I get into a tough fight, I have better
things
> to cast (Greater Command, Insect Plague, Hold Person, etc.). By the
> time I have nothing better to cast, the fight is pretty much over...
> Am I the only one who doesn't use them?
Defensive spells should be cast before combat starts, preferably
before you even meet the hostiles-to-be. With judicious use of the
pause button, a party enchanced with Bless. Haste, Prayer, Champion's
Strength, etc. carve a bloody swath through anyone and anything in its
path.
Rune Christensen
bob
trolls. Jahira (on cleric defensive ai. script) starts to cast bless,
fighters go into action against the trolls. About 20 sec. later all
the trolls are dead, Jahira is still casting bless, 10 sec later my
cleric char has finished casting the mass healing spell, then J.
finishes bless... it just aint worth it. The rest of her spell slots
are taken up by healing/offensive spells.
The option of casting them before before is a hassel and I usually get
triped up working on timeings (ie. which will run out fastest so
should be cast last), and I cant be bothered working it out on papaer
before hand (got enuff scraps of a4 hanging around the desk nehow). As
a consequence the only defensive spells I use are iron/stone skin on
druid/mages (hotkeyed) so they dont get backstabbed and summoning
spells (spider spawn to be death spelled, then elementals to do the
actual fighting).
Spell sequencer and contigency usually get ignored/not reset as I have
more pressing matters to think about or can't be bothered resting to
reset it after contigency has been used then resting again to get the
other spell back.
Anyway, best defence is a good offence and all that (who needs an army
when I have Minsc?).
reply to anakha<at>paradise<dot>net<dot>nz
Tai Fong
"Jeremiah" <br...@spam.to.dev.null> wrote in message
>
> I'm curious how many of you use defensive spells (Chant,
> Defensive Harmony, Bless, etc.) after combat has started... Generally,
> I don't use defensive spells at all. When I get into an easy fight, I
> don't need them, and when I get into a tough fight, I have better things
> to cast (Greater Command, Insect Plague, Hold Person, etc.). By the
> time I have nothing better to cast, the fight is pretty much over...
> Am I the only one who doesn't use them?
>
>
Except for Negative Planar Protection and stone skin, I seldom use any other
defensive spells in my last 2 BG2 games. Firstly I am lazy to look through
my spell book on which spell to cast, and secondly the enemy will almost
always cast dispel magic or equivalent on my party.
Regards
Derville
James Prieels <james_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:95rb18$4sb$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
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????????
> In article <la0g6.225616$w35.39...@news1.rdc1.nj.home.com>,
> evilq...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > I'm curious how many of you use defensive spells (Chant,
> > Defensive Harmony, Bless, etc.) after combat has started...
> Generally,
> > I don't use defensive spells at all. When I get into an easy fight,
I
> > don't need them, and when I get into a tough fight, I have better
> things
> > to cast (Greater Command, Insect Plague, Hold Person, etc.). By the
> > time I have nothing better to cast, the fight is pretty much over...
> > Am I the only one who doesn't use them?
>
> It's hard to estimate the effect of spells like Bless, Chant and
> Protection From Evil... but it is there, and after a while one gets a
> feeling of their worth.
>
> I always have Protection From Evil 10' Radius on. At 1 turn/level, it
> lasts forever. I add Bless/Chant before hard fights, and as another
> poster has suggested, Aerie is the ideal person to cast this via a
> Minor Spell Sequencer.
I agree with the PfE 10' Radius, as it can keep me going between
resting. Stoneskin, as an individual spell, is another one I always
have on my mages, while Mirror Image can be thrown up quickly if we get
ambushed. I tend to use Haste almost as a matter of course, because (1)
I can't stand waiting for everyone to wander over at their
slower-than-crawling-through-treacle pace, and (2) my sorceror has 8 or
9 level 3 spells memorised, so I may as well use them ;-).
> It's also good to keep 'problem solvers' memorised, such as Free
Action
> and Chaotic Commands: they get rid of a hold/charm spell in effect,
> plus they prevent it from happening again - again for 1 turn/level. I
> occasionally cast these ahead of time when facing VERY tough
opponents,
> such as Liches.
Since acquiring a certain magical staff, I need never worry about being
ambushed again - I just send Jan out ahead to look for traps, and then
we can all sit back and wait for him to report in. It then becomes a
case of loading up with defensive spells. On the number of spells used,
I tend to take no chances, so it's a case of casting everything I've
got. The way I see it, I'd rather rest often and win fights easily than
struggle through because I'm hoarding my defensive spells.
> On the mage side, Spell Immunity can come in handy: Conjuration vs.
> Power Words, Evocation vs. Djinni, Enchantment vs. Umber Hulks...
>
> Cheers,
> James
I can't say I've used a Spell Immunity, or indeed a lot of the other
spells with short durations (Neg Plane Protection, Defensive Harmony
etc). I prefer to fire and forget, leaving my people covered in spell
protections well in advance, then hopefully making a charge through two
or three combats with most of the spells still intact before resting and
going again. This is where a paladin comes in handy to replenish Prot
from Evil spells, and two clerics is pretty essential for this way of
playing.
--
P.
(Remove 'your.inhibitions' to reply)
Read the alt.games.baldurs-gate Usage FAQ:
www.demonspawn.net/bg/usage.htm
Chris Newton
> I've recently been experimenting with Bless: we go into battle vs.
> trolls. Jahira (on cleric defensive ai. script) starts to cast bless,
> fighters go into action against the trolls. About 20 sec. later all
> the trolls are dead, Jahira is still casting bless, 10 sec later my
> cleric char has finished casting the mass healing spell, then J.
> finishes bless... it just aint worth it. The rest of her spell slots
> are taken up by healing/offensive spells.
Hmm. Personally, I think defensive magic rocks. Here's why.
I find I can almost always cast Bless, Chant, Haste, Defensive Harmony
and Protection From Evil 10' Radius within a round or so (6 seconds) of
combat starting. At that point, my enemies are still out of melee range
anyway.
Aerie has a minor sequencer with the long spells (Bless and Chant) in
it, which she can therefore cast simultaneously and immediately -
problem solved. Defensive Harmony is pretty much instant anyway (and
cast by Jaheira), and PFE10' isn't far behind (cast by Aerie after the
sequencer). Obviously, Stone/Iron Skins are always on for characters who
can cast them, too. Any mage can cast Haste; I have at least three who
can do it, depending on whose other skills are needed fastest.
Against a magic-wielding party, I usually elect to have Jaheira cast
Insect Plague first. Against enemies with particularly dangerous
attacks, my clerics might cast Negative Plane Protection, etc., first
instead. On the whole, though, I don't need these.
During the one or possibly two rounds of defensive spellcasting, my
fighters are staying back to make sure they are included in the spell
effects, while firing arrows and bolts into the enemy pack. The mages
who aren't also fighter or cleric types will be taking down any spell
defences the enemy got up, or maybe sending in a nice
Web/Fireball/Fireball sequencer to soften the nasties up (one of the few
overtly offensive spells I still find useful at this stage).
By the time we've done that, we're maybe two rounds into combat, and the
surviving enemies are closing to melee range. At this point, in go the
fighters. Since pretty much everyone in my party can now fight well, I
am finding offensive magic less and less useful. My party's highest AC
is -3, and we're all kitted out with +3 (or more often +4 or +5) weapons
that do well over 20 damage on a decent hit, so they can all mix it up
in melee. On the other hand, half the nasties in the game seem to be
105% magic resistant, and their saving throws are all -200, so magical
attacks are often as not a waste of time.
About the only "offensive" magic I use now is casting Doom on
particularly nasty bad guys, and maybe that sequencer right at the
start. Magic Missile and the like just don't cut it when your
fighter/mage character can shoot 8 arrows of piercing a round... :-)
Of course, I couldn't do all of this without defensive magic. Aerie and
Imoen just wouldn't survive for long without some help (they have AC -4
and powerful weapons, just not the HP to stick it for more than a round
or two normally). On the other hand, after the defensive spells and
fighting against Doomed adversaries, they're pretty much unhittable
anyway.
I guess the killer is that at the start of the battle, you can have your
magic users throw stones or cast an awesome array of defensive magic.
After that, you can have them melee for massive damage or cast offensive
spells that will have no effect against many of the bad guys in the game
anyway. Which do you choose in each case?
Cheers,
Chris
kromm
<ph...@your.inhibitions.gledson.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
>I can't say I've used a Spell Immunity, or indeed a lot of the other
>spells with short durations (Neg Plane Protection, Defensive Harmony
>etc). I prefer to fire and forget, leaving my people covered in spell
>protections well in advance, then hopefully making a charge through two
>or three combats with most of the spells still intact before resting and
>going again. This is where a paladin comes in handy to replenish Prot
>from Evil spells, and two clerics is pretty essential for this way of
>playing.
Short duration defensives are worthwhile when you correctly anticipate
your next encounter ahead of time (basically, by playing the game the
second time). Neg Plane is sweet when dealing with vampires in the
graveyard or in Athkatla. Have a few memorized because you know you
are going to encounter them. Level drain is a nusiance for a spell
casting intensive party.
kromm
Trickle
>
> I'm curious how many of you use defensive spells (Chant,
>Defensive Harmony, Bless, etc.)
All the time....... and you forgot pro. fear, pro. evil and the
deflection/reflection lines etc.
>after combat has started...
Ah...... no, not usually after combat has started. Though having said
that, Aerie with the robe of Venca casts her cleric spells at -5 as
well as her mage spells. I find that makes it somewhat more feasable
to cast chant mid battle then.
Note Aerie can cast Cheal almost as fast as she can get to (or they
can back off to her with boots of speed) the injured party with that
robe.
Derville
kromm <kr...@nospamhome.com> wrote in message
news:3a87a607.22731508@news...
Level drain is equally annoying when you see your fighter standing there
swinging, but the enemy isn't dropping ;-). As you say, short duration
spells come into their own either on your second run through the game
(unless the game does drop massive hints, like "You are entering a room.
There's a sign saying 'Don't scratch my coffin!' on the wall"), or if
you have an excellent scout in your group. But, with the save/reload
feature always available, it's often easier to charge in and see what
the enemy is made of, and then reload and stock up with the correct
spells to take them down. Whether this is any cheaper than firing
Cloudkills through a door into a room, I'll leave up to everyone else to
decide ;-).
kromm
My first time through I did alot of charging in to see what the enemy
is made of, only to find my spells (and myself) woefully unprepared.
I do delcare that my "charge" was legit insofar as I actually tried to
win. The reload usually occurred after a series of spectactular and
often bizzare tactical errors. The second run was not nearly so bad.
I had a general idea of: what to expect around the corner, specific
monster attributes, and stronger knowledge of spells. The result was
very little reloading except when the pc was petrified or was subject
to some other showstopper.
kromm
Derville
Well, so far the only fights I've had to reload on were in the Harper
Hold (the first battle, which was just more getting a feel for the new
spells, and getting the Cowled Wizards to open a can of whoop-*ss on my
team for casting Haste in the streets - it plays havoc with the speed
limits in the town, don't you know ;-)), and in the Twisted Rune, which
took 3 attempts (although the second attempt crashed when the mage cast
Time Stop at me). Other than that, I've scraped through just about
every battle, albeit that resurrections were sometimes needed, but I've
kept my PC alive in every skirmish. The issue is whether knowing what
to expect is akin to cheating (I suppose I could call it good
intelligence gathering, or that forewarned is forearmed). I'm more than
happy to leave things the way they are, as a random monster generator
would just drive me up the wall. I'm in no way prepared to creep
through every inch of a game, looking out in case some super tough enemy
is randomly spawned in my vicinity.